Dream job vs. more money

[smobot]

Hello all,

Looking for some advice.

I'm currently living in Toronto in what I would definitely call my 'dream job' at my 'dream company.' However, my spouse and I would like to re-locate to Vancouver to be closer to her family (I'm cool with it because Vancouver is awesome). There is a decent chance I can continue doing my current job in the Vancouver office. However, I recently had an interview with a Vancouver employer for a job in the same field, similar responsibilities but is in a much smaller organization with what looks to be a 'change-resistant culture.' The issue is that this other job is offering 50% more pay than what I'm making now (i.e. 70k + (stocks/bonus/pension) vs. 105k + (car allowance/bonus/pension)). The question for you all is whether I forego a great company culture at a firm with tons of opportunity for greater pay.

I estimate that it will take at least 4+ years for me to make 105k at my current job, so what we are talking about is an opportunity cost of at least 92K. *I should add that in BC the take home pay after taxes for a salary of 70K is 53K and for 105K works out to 76K, which is a difference of 23K, so multiplied by 4 years is 92K.

Summary: is a great company job/company worth delaying retirement (i.e. foregoing 92k)?

[RidetheRain]

This is hugely subjective, but you'll probably want to run some numbers. How far away from retirement are you, do you expect an increase in expenses in Vancouver (or decrease!), do you think you'll be unhappy in the new job or just less happy, what would job security be like in one or the other, etc.

If you're five years away and the new job would do it in two, I'd switch - maybe you wouldn't. If you're ten years away and the new job is only eight then stay.

Another option is to negotiate salary with your current company. If someone is willing you pay you 50% more then they might be willing to chip a little in too.

[smobot]

Thanks for the reply.

So, I'm at least 7 years away form being able to retire (without owning any property) if I stayed in Toronto. The cost of living in Vancouver is at least $400-$500 a month higher, so that will sting much more with 70K than with 105K.

I don't think I'd be unhappy at the new job, I just think that I can't imagine being more satisfied with a company/job than the one I'm with. It's a vibrant, positive atmosphere with a lot of opportunity. But of course, there is a limit to how much one values this, and I'm trying to figure out if 105K is that threshold. I think I'd be a little less happy, but the substance of the work is almost the same and the atmosphere is a little more laissez-faire, which could be more easy going.

Job security is about the same in both. Both are near monopolies in their industries, but my current role looks way better on a resume if I decided/needed to look for work in the future.

The top of the salary range that I'm in right now is 96K before bonus, and I highly doubt they'd consider moving at all on principle (there are ten other people in the dept that make similar money to me that have been working for 10+ years). In this way, my best guess would be that I could get to 100K with bonus at a minimum of 4-5 years.

In this way, I'm saving roughly 30K (after tax) annually right now, and with the living cost adjustment in Vancouver I could comfortably get to 50K savings (after tax) with the new job, so I'd almost be saving at double the rate than I would be if I stayed (i.e. nearly cutting the time to retire in two).

[TheGibberingPotato]

If it is truly your dream job, then no, dont give it up.  Keep in mind the tax effect.  The amount more you make at the new job is earnings minus taxes.

Also depends if you want to FIRE, how soon, etc,..

Also, figuee out your growth potential at the current job.

Also, dont think think of your current job, but your current job telecommuniting from vancouver

Hello all,

Looking for some advice.

I'm currently living in Toronto in what I would definitely call my 'dream job' at my 'dream company.' However, my spouse and I would like to re-locate to Vancouver to be closer to her family (I'm cool with it because Vancouver is awesome). There is a decent chance I can continue doing my current job in the Vancouver office. However, I recently had an interview with a Vancouver employer for a job in the same field, similar responsibilities but is in a much smaller organization with what looks to be a 'change-resistant culture.' The issue is that this other job is offering 50% more pay than what I'm making now (i.e. 70k + (stocks/bonus/pension) vs. 105k + (car allowance/bonus/pension)). The question for you all is whether I forego a great company culture at a firm with tons of opportunity for greater pay.

I estimate that it will take at least 4+ years for me to make 105k at my current job, so what we are talking about is an opportunity cost of at least 92K. *I should add that in BC the take home pay after taxes for a salary of 70K is 53K and for 105K works out to 76K, which is a difference of 23K, so multiplied by 4 years is 92K.

Summary: is a great company job/company worth delaying retirement (i.e. foregoing 92k)?

[undercover]

I would personally jump ship but leave my current organization in as good of a way as possible so that there's the potential for coming back if things don't work out.

The thing is that you don't know that you won't be 80-90% as happy (or happier) with the new job.

Yes, you know that your current job suits you perfectly now, but you're probably omitting that at least 30% of that feeling is comfortability and complacency.

50% is hard to ignore.

[I'm a red panda]

Can you negotiate with current job based on this offer? Even 10-15% more?

I have learned I value intangibles more than just paycheck.

[smobot]

Thanks, I agree undercover - its plausible that this new opportunity could be more satisfying. And to be frank, I think I value financial independence more than I value my current job (or any other day job for that matter). So if this new opportunity can get me closer to being able to semi-retire and start up a little hobby/business, I think that's worth a lot more than staying put. The key here is that the after tax savings is almost double, which thereby divides my working time in two - I don't think I can walk into my current role for the next few years and not dread the reality that I could have been making double the money elsewhere.

I guess the other thing to note is that I'm 26 with no kids and no debt, and if there were ever a time to take a chance on a lucrative opportunity and see how it goes it would be now. I also agree with your other point about leaving on good terms, I think this is key and would theoretically make it feasible to return at some other time.

[smobot]

Can you negotiate with current job based on this offer? Even 10-15% more?

I have learned I value intangibles more than just paycheck.

I could certainly try, although my best guess would be a maximum of 10% would be plausible. This tough bargaining scenario is part of the reason 105K is to attractive, because it would take years of negotiating and labour to get there.

[JLee]

Could you go to the new company for 2-3 years and then go back to your current company at a higher salary? Outside hires almost always earn more than inside employees getting promoted into the same position.

This 50% jump is basically resetting your future baseline salary to 50% more than it is now - it has far-reaching impacts on your salary future.

[Davids]

50% is huge. Plus maybe your new employer will be nearly as good as your dream job. I say do it.

[Ocinfo]

Assuming culture at your current company really is great, I would tell them that you are moving to Vancouver for family reasons, etc. If they want to keep you then they’ll give you options. At that time, you can let them know that you already have an offer from a Vancouver based company. They might be willing to counter and you end up with the best possible outcome. The company has to have an excellent culture or this simply won’t work well.

I went through a similar situation 3 years ago. Ended up getting a big raise (+5 more in addition) and have not had any consequences by staying at current employer. It’s a high risk, high reward play. Biggest thing is to not demand anything and don’t accept any counter if there is any hint that it’ll be held against you.


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[JLee]

Assuming culture at your current company really is great, I would tell them that you are moving to Vancouver for family reasons, etc. If they want to keep you then they’ll give you options. At that time, you can let them know that you already have an offer from a Vancouver based company. They might be willing to counter and you end up with the best possible outcome. The company has to have an excellent culture or this simply won’t work well.

I went through a similar situation 3 years ago. Ended up getting a big raise (+5 more in addition) and have not had any consequences by staying at current employer. It’s a high risk, high reward play. Biggest thing is to not demand anything and don’t accept any counter if there is any hint that it’ll be held against you.


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You could play the "moving to Vancouver for housing reasons" card along with the higher COL in Vancouver card and avoid looking like you're threatening to quit if you don't get a raise. I think it'd come across as a fair proposition, i.e. "I'm moving to Vancouver for family reasons and realize there is a higher cost of living, so I have been looking into other options. I do love working here, though, and wanted to see if we may be able to work out a solution so I don't have to leave."

[GetItRight]

My threshold to leave my current employer I'm happy with has been in the 20%-25% range when I've looked, more if it involved working in a city. A good company, people, and culture is great... But most places aren't that bad or really all that much different once you adjust to it. This sounds like the fear of the unknown talking. A valid fear, but for the right price one can get over it, and I'd say 50% more is the right price. Since you really like your current employer you should give them an opportunity to match it before handing in your notice.

[smobot]

My threshold to leave my current employer I'm happy with has been in the 20%-25% range when I've looked, more if it involved working in a city. A good company, people, and culture is great... But most places aren't that bad or really all that much different once you adjust to it. This sounds like the fear of the unknown talking. A valid fear, but for the right price one can get over it, and I'd say 50% more is the right price. Since you really like your current employer you should give them an opportunity to match it before handing in your notice.

I think the route of the indecision is fear of the unknown for sure. If it were entirely clinical I'd be looking at the fact that one will get me closer to being financially independent twice as fast. I can always bail after a few years for something else if its' unbearable.

[smobot]

Also, just wanted to say thanks very much to everyone who has responded so far I appreciate the perspectives.

[COEE]

I've very recently been through this as well.  I was fortunate to have two offers at once. 

On one hand, I had one opportunity that was my dream job that required a eventual move, better guaranteed money, but no future raises were expected for a significant length of time 5-10 years.  I had also worked for them in the past so I had a very good idea of the work and knew I'd hit the ground running and would be the only person in the world with that job.  It had massive opportunity to ride the coat-tails of a friend up to the top of a fortune 500 company.

On the other hand, was a another different dream job that offered a different career path, a little less guaranteed money, had a VERY generous bonus plan, was a lazy 20 minute walk from my home, and I worked with the manager to get a performance plan in place to get me to the guaranteed money that the other job offered in a 1-2 year time frame.  The long term opportunities are unknown, but I'd be happy just doing the job and getting paid well the rest of my career.

I'd suggest following your heart and your gut more than your pocketbook.  Both excellent options - I eventually just had to choose.  You may need to prepare yourself to do the same.