Downhill skis recommendations?

[FINate]

I know, I know, this is like asking for music recommendations: There are a bajillion options and everyone has a different opinion :)

I’m currently on a standard issue season lease 76mm carving ski. Buying boots and getting them fitted is my first priority for next season. “Marry your boots, date your skis” as the saying goes. And I’ll do another season lease of a better all mountain ski for next season, which I believe are a frontside 88mm under foot. About mid way through next season I plan on demoing skis for purchase. Yes, I’m a planner, so trying to wrap my head around things even though it's early.

I’ve started my research, but as I get into combinations of ski style, width, and length… well, it’s a bewildering array of choices. Of course, I will demo before purchase, but I don’t want to try 50 skis. What I’m really looking for is some guidance on narrowing down choices based on my situation.

A little about me. I’m athletic but not a slight guy at 6’6” 235 lbs. Skied a little in high school but never had the time to learn it well before switching to snowboarding, which I did for ~15 years. We relocated this year to a city that’s about 30 minutes from a great local resort and decided to get the kids on skis. This is going super well and is one of the few activities we can do together as a family during winter this pandemic. Figured it would be a good time to learn to ski again with the family.

I’m now comfortable on advanced runs, carving, short turns, off trail, some powder, crud, and bumps (which, surprisingly, I kinda enjoy). I like to go fast, but not all the time. There are times (with the kids) and places (unfamiliar runs) that I prefer a slower more relaxed pace. In other words, I don’t want a ski that I have to get to 40 mph before it activates.

Our local ski resort is great and I love it, but pow days here are typically 6-12 inches and pretty well stomped on by mid-day. Snow conditions are generally pretty good overall, but mixed: some powder, crud, groomers, occasionally icy. There are other places with better powder within about 2 hours, but realistically I’m not going to drive that far very often. And if I ever decide to get serious about deep powder then I’ll likely splurge on dedicated fat skis, but not now.

What I’m looking for is a good all mountain ski (or freeride?) that can do most things reasonably well that I can continue to grow into. More than half of the time on groomers, the rest off trail/powder/trees/etc. One of my favorite things snowboarding is floating on powder in the trees, so want some powder capability. Willing to give a little bit on carving performance for more versatility, but don’t want to feel like I can’t enjoy the groomers with the family.

So, my thinking is an all-mountain ski, somewhere in the mid 90s under foot, likely the longest they make so around 190 or greater.  Top contenders so far are: Nortica Enforcer 94, Volkl M5 Mantra 96, Blizzard Rustler 9 (94mm), Stockli Stormrider 95. The Stockli is somewhat of a wildcard. While it sounds like an impressive one-quiver ski, I’m not sure if it’s worth the premium. I mean, it might be if it really does everything as well as some claim, but I’m skeptical.

Questions for the collective MMM hive mind:

Is all-mountain the right fit? It’s not totally clear to me what the difference is between all-mountain and freeride, and it seems some manufacturers blur the lines, but maybe freeride is more off-piste focused whereas all-mountain gives up less in the carving department?

Based on my height, weight, and riding style, should I just always expect to go with the longest ski? Or should I spend the extra time/money to demo something shorter?

Is the mid-90 under foot width about right, or should I also be considering narrower/wider?

Are my top candidate skis sensible? Should I add or remove anything?

Anything else I should consider?

TIA

[honeybbq]

free ride is more going 'over' bumps and all mountain is more carving around them. Personally, I see the specs very similarly as you do but went with an all mountain ski in the end. My all mountain skis (Volkls) have a 92 width because I love a good carve but they are wide enough to float on the pow pow, too. Depending on your home terrain (ice/powder/"normal") you might default to what you ski most often as opposed to what you love to ski most.

There's a nice quiz here:
https://www.skis.com/Buying-Guide-for-Skis/buying-guide-1-12-2012,default,pg.html

That I took when I was buying skis last year. It helped me narrow down the choices. I know the super shaped and fatty skis can vary on length based on their construction so you'd want to have a guess but then try them out. The last thing you want is too short or too long of skis. That's why it's important to demo as well because the finite choices they come in. I definitely tried some that felt 'too short' but the next option definitely felt 'too long'. Being so tall you may have limited choices so get an idea of what length you need first off and make sure they come in something close to demo.

Most important to me was the demos though. I went in with my own ideas in mind and chatted up the ski dude and listened to his suggestions. Then tried them out 1-2 runs apiece. Then the next day skied my #1 choice all day. Typically they'll apply the fees from the demos to your purchase if you want to go that route. If you are sort of an 'all around skier' and an advanced intermediate-  you are really not going to go wrong with your choice. You are the main demographic (other than your height) of most ski production companies. That said - my whole family skis Volkls. :D

[ericrugiero]

When I was shopping for skis I bought Rossignol Experience 88's off ebay.  They were used about a year and came with bindings for a good deal.  They are wider underfoot than the ones I owned before so they are better in powder (although I don't generally get to ski powder so I'm saying that based on manufacturer's literature).  My skiing is typically groomed, crud or ice and they do well for all that.  I can carve fast and feel under control or take it easy with my kids and they still work well.  I'm not good enough to ski the harder bumps but so far I've never felt like these skis are holding me back.  Overall it's been a good purchase.  The reason I picked this model was the good deal and the ability to ski both fast and slow.  Sorry, no experience with any of the models you mentioned so I can't really compare. 

If I was able to ski more than a couple days a year I might have spent time doing demo's and maybe justified a higher purchase price. 

[FINate]

free ride is more going 'over' bumps and all mountain is more carving around them. Personally, I see the specs very similarly as you do but went with an all mountain ski in the end. My all mountain skis (Volkls) have a 92 width because I love a good carve but they are wide enough to float on the pow pow, too. Depending on your home terrain (ice/powder/"normal") you might default to what you ski most often as opposed to what you love to ski most.

There's a nice quiz here:
https://www.skis.com/Buying-Guide-for-Skis/buying-guide-1-12-2012,default,pg.html

That I took when I was buying skis last year. It helped me narrow down the choices. I know the super shaped and fatty skis can vary on length based on their construction so you'd want to have a guess but then try them out. The last thing you want is too short or too long of skis. That's why it's important to demo as well because the finite choices they come in. I definitely tried some that felt 'too short' but the next option definitely felt 'too long'. Being so tall you may have limited choices so get an idea of what length you need first off and make sure they come in something close to demo.

Most important to me was the demos though. I went in with my own ideas in mind and chatted up the ski dude and listened to his suggestions. Then tried them out 1-2 runs apiece. Then the next day skied my #1 choice all day. Typically they'll apply the fees from the demos to your purchase if you want to go that route. If you are sort of an 'all around skier' and an advanced intermediate-  you are really not going to go wrong with your choice. You are the main demographic (other than your height) of most ski production companies. That said - my whole family skis Volkls. :D

Thanks for the clarification on freeride vs all mountain. I'm definitely a carve around the bumps skier, so confirms all mountain is probably the right category. Also, agree with skiing what you got, not what you want. We get enough powder here, which stays in pretty good condition (cold and dry) that I think a mid 90 underfoot is probably worth it.

Nice link, thanks for that. Interestingly, all the skis I'm considering come up in that list. May add the Volkl Blaze 94 to my shortlist. 

I like your demo strategy, may see if there's a way for me to demo more than one ski in a day. Once I narrow it down to a specific model it may be worth it to try two different lengths just to see the difference.

My current season lease is a Volkl. Great ski, they've come along way in 20 years. It's a 175 length, which is the longest for that model, though there are times I wish it was a bit longer.

Thanks for the input!

[FINate]

When I was shopping for skis I bought Rossignol Experience 88's off ebay.  They were used about a year and came with bindings for a good deal.  They are wider underfoot than the ones I owned before so they are better in powder (although I don't generally get to ski powder so I'm saying that based on manufacturer's literature).  My skiing is typically groomed, crud or ice and they do well for all that.  I can carve fast and feel under control or take it easy with my kids and they still work well.  I'm not good enough to ski the harder bumps but so far I've never felt like these skis are holding me back.  Overall it's been a good purchase.  The reason I picked this model was the good deal and the ability to ski both fast and slow.  Sorry, no experience with any of the models you mentioned so I can't really compare. 

If I was able to ski more than a couple days a year I might have spent time doing demo's and maybe justified a higher purchase price.

Hard to argue with a good eBay deal. We ski 2-3x/week so I think it's worth my time and money to demo a few.

[honeybbq]

When I was shopping for skis I bought Rossignol Experience 88's off ebay.  They were used about a year and came with bindings for a good deal.  They are wider underfoot than the ones I owned before so they are better in powder (although I don't generally get to ski powder so I'm saying that based on manufacturer's literature).  My skiing is typically groomed, crud or ice and they do well for all that.  I can carve fast and feel under control or take it easy with my kids and they still work well.  I'm not good enough to ski the harder bumps but so far I've never felt like these skis are holding me back.  Overall it's been a good purchase.  The reason I picked this model was the good deal and the ability to ski both fast and slow.  Sorry, no experience with any of the models you mentioned so I can't really compare. 

If I was able to ski more than a couple days a year I might have spent time doing demo's and maybe justified a higher purchase price.

Hard to argue with a good eBay deal. We ski 2-3x/week so I think it's worth my time and money to demo a few.

One more piece of unsolicited advice- if you are skiing THAT much definitely buy what you want and do demos. Skis aren't nearly as expensive as the ski trips/tickets IME. Especially if you use for ~5+ years. Very few things you get to try before you buy - skis happen to be one of them. So have fun testing them out and get what works best for you.

[FINate]

When I was shopping for skis I bought Rossignol Experience 88's off ebay.  They were used about a year and came with bindings for a good deal.  They are wider underfoot than the ones I owned before so they are better in powder (although I don't generally get to ski powder so I'm saying that based on manufacturer's literature).  My skiing is typically groomed, crud or ice and they do well for all that.  I can carve fast and feel under control or take it easy with my kids and they still work well.  I'm not good enough to ski the harder bumps but so far I've never felt like these skis are holding me back.  Overall it's been a good purchase.  The reason I picked this model was the good deal and the ability to ski both fast and slow.  Sorry, no experience with any of the models you mentioned so I can't really compare. 

If I was able to ski more than a couple days a year I might have spent time doing demo's and maybe justified a higher purchase price.

Hard to argue with a good eBay deal. We ski 2-3x/week so I think it's worth my time and money to demo a few.

One more piece of unsolicited advice- if you are skiing THAT much definitely buy what you want and do demos. Skis aren't nearly as expensive as the ski trips/tickets IME. Especially if you use for ~5+ years. Very few things you get to try before you buy - skis happen to be one of them. So have fun testing them out and get what works best for you.

I think you're right. We mostly ski mid-week and essentially have the place to ourselves until the working stiffs show up for night skiing. When I don't have the family with me I can easily get in 15-20 runs in an afternoon session. Don't know why this didn't occur to me before, but maybe I'll start demoing some all mountain skis of different widths (88/95/100) now just to get a better sense of how much of a difference this makes. Then see what the product new lineup is next season and dial it in more from there.

Thanks again!

[nereo]

I was in your shoes (skis) not so long ago. And like you OP, I plan and research.

Bottom line, what worked best was to find a knowledgeable ski guy at a shop willing to work with me as I tested a bunch of different skis. One that can develop a vocabulary with you. Each time I tried a ski he would ask what I liked and didn’t. Too stiff, too bendy, uncomfortable at speed, playful,  etc. each time he was able to steer me towards something closer to my ideal. That’s what you want

Many shops will allow you to keep swapping out skis all season to demo til you find the pair that works for you. Even though there might be 50 possibilities, you and the shop should quickly eliminate all but 5-6 after the first few runs.
Gluck.

[FINate]

I was in your shoes (skis) not so long ago. And like you OP, I plan and research.

Bottom line, what worked best was to find a knowledgeable ski guy at a shop willing to work with me as I tested a bunch of different skis. One that can develop a vocabulary with you. Each time I tried a ski he would ask what I liked and didn’t. Too stiff, too bendy, uncomfortable at speed, playful,  etc. each time he was able to steer me towards something closer to my ideal. That’s what you want

Many shops will allow you to keep swapping out skis all season to demo til you find the pair that works for you. Even though there might be 50 possibilities, you and the shop should quickly eliminate all but 5-6 after the first few runs.
Gluck.

Thanks for the good idea. I've chatted up several guys at the shops around here. They generally have a policy of the price of two demos can be applied to the purchase of skis. Which kind of makes sense. Not sure how they'd make money on $700 skis if people demo a ton for free. Which is fine with me. I like our local ski shops and want them to stay in business.

I also just realized something... don't most ski resorts have some sort of Demo Day where you can try out a bunch of skis? Scouring the web it appears our ski area did this in past years, but not this year. Oh, right, pandemic. So, I'm guessing/hoping that Demo Day will be back next season, which would make it a lot easier and less expensive.

[nereo]

I also just realized something... don't most ski resorts have some sort of Demo Day where you can try out a bunch of skis? Scouring the web it appears our ski area did this in past years, but not this year. Oh, right, pandemic. So, I'm guessing/hoping that Demo Day will be back next season, which would make it a lot easier and less expensive.

Yeah, resort Demo-days are great, and take advantage of them when you can.  The ability to do mid-mountain swap-outs lets you test a half dozen skis in a single day.
But they are often run by and promote a particular brand's line of skis.  Not to worry, at least around here you can find several on-hill Demo days at various resorts in a single season.

[FINate]

An update. I demo'd a ski today: Nortica Enforcer 88, 186 length. Holy wow! What a difference from what I've been leasing. A LOT more power and energy, holds an edge like nobody’s business. Like everyone, we recently had a lot of snow, though it was pretty cruddy by the time we got up there. I did manage to find a few patches of untouched powder, which was heavenly. And handled the crud very well, especially at speed. But it was so different that I took quite a while to get somewhat used to it. The kids were in a mood so it was time to go just as I was starting to feel more confident :( Oh well. I think my best path is probably to lease an all mountain ski for next season, then demo like crazy next Feb when demo days are (hopefully) happening again.

[nereo]

An update. I demo'd a ski today: Nortica Enforcer 88, 186 length. Holy wow! What a difference from what I've been leasing. A LOT more power and energy, holds an edge like nobody’s business. Like everyone, we recently had a lot of snow, though it was pretty cruddy by the time we got up there. I did manage to find a few patches of untouched powder, which was heavenly. And handled the crud very well, especially at speed. But it was so different that I took quite a while to get somewhat used to it. The kids were in a mood so it was time to go just as I was starting to feel more confident :( Oh well. I think my best path is probably to lease an all mountain ski for next season, then demo like crazy next Feb when demo days are (hopefully) happening again.

Glad to hear an update.  One piece of advice - spend as much time demo-ing skis in average to sub-par conditions as you do in pristine powder.  You want a ski that works for you in crud, after runs have been skied off, when conditions are just so-so.  Because that’s how you’re going to ski at least some of the time (and if you are like me, a fair bit of time). 

[FINate]

Glad to hear an update.  One piece of advice - spend as much time demo-ing skis in average to sub-par conditions as you do in pristine powder.  You want a ski that works for you in crud, after runs have been skied off, when conditions are just so-so.  Because that’s how you’re going to ski at least some of the time (and if you are like me, a fair bit of time).

Good advice. I don't expect to be on pristine powder that often, although with better skis I might make more of an effort to be up the mountain early after a storm. In any case, it's been good practice for the family to experience all different kinds of conditions, from ice to powder. The snow today was oddly sticky, a new one for us.

[FINate]

Another update. Sorry, I promise I won't spam you with every single demo :) But I do have questions below for the more seasoned skiers.

Yesterday I tried the Fischer Ranger 99 Ti in 181 length. Wonderful ski, felt very intuitive and confidence inspiring. Was quickly doing advanced runs on the backside that were an unholy mix of soft chop and irregular firm bumps. The 181 is the longest demo the shop carries. Ah the downsides of being unusually tall. I think the longer 188 would have worked a little better for me. Some of the reviews state that it's not a forgiving ski, which I didn't notice, so maybe my form isn't terrible :)

Having been on a 76 all season I was curious what more ski underfoot would feel like, was a little worried that it would be slow and awkward or difficult to control. Quite the opposite! There's definitely more weight down there, and it requires more input to put on edge and drive the edges into the snow. I found, however, that I much preferred this and like muscling the skis around. It felt like I had better control of the edges, and could more easily release the edge to smear turns and pivot. In a weird way it reminded me of snowboarding. And crud performance was quite a bit better than the 88 I tested a couple of days ago. By the end of the day I was smashing through stuff I would normally try to ski around.

So here's my question: Is it generally easier to release the edge on a slightly wider ski? And is a heavier, wider all mountain ski generally better in the crud? If so, this will probably narrow my search down to the ~100 width since this would be a good fit for our typical snow conditions while still being more than adequate on corduroy groomers and pow days. 

[sixwings]

I have the volkl mantras and looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove them

[nburns]

I have owned a pair of Salomon Q90's for about 5 years now and I love them.  I believe they are rated an intermediate ski but I ski all over the mountains with them; from icy, steep, double black diamonds to over a foot of fresh powder in the woods.  Great all around ski and not overly expensive either. 

[nereo]

So here's my question: Is it generally easier to release the edge on a slightly wider ski? And is a heavier, wider all mountain ski generally better in the crud? If so, this will probably narrow my search down to the ~100 width since this would be a good fit for our typical snow conditions while still being more than adequate on corduroy groomers and pow days.

I'm not sure you can make such generalizations, unfortunately.  Longer skis have (slightly) wider turning radii, and for me I've felt that they are actually easier to control.  But some narrower skis will excel in crud while other wider skis just smear and skid (and vice versa).  How you power the ski matters a great deal too. 

[FINate]

I have the volkl mantras and looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove them

Thanks. The M5 is on my list. What are your typical conditions?

[FINate]

I have owned a pair of Salomon Q90's for about 5 years now and I love them.  I believe they are rated an intermediate ski but I ski all over the mountains with them; from icy, steep, double black diamonds to over a foot of fresh powder in the woods.  Great all around ski and not overly expensive either.

Thanks. Don't think they make the Q90 anymore, guessing the QST line is what replaced it. I'm planning on trying the QST 99 at some point.

[FINate]

So here's my question: Is it generally easier to release the edge on a slightly wider ski? And is a heavier, wider all mountain ski generally better in the crud? If so, this will probably narrow my search down to the ~100 width since this would be a good fit for our typical snow conditions while still being more than adequate on corduroy groomers and pow days.

I'm not sure you can make such generalizations, unfortunately.  Longer skis have (slightly) wider turning radii, and for me I've felt that they are actually easier to control.  But some narrower skis will excel in crud while other wider skis just smear and skid (and vice versa).  How you power the ski matters a great deal too.

Darn. Well, I'll keep my options open then.

[FINate]

I'm not sure you can make such generalizations, unfortunately.  Longer skis have (slightly) wider turning radii, and for me I've felt that they are actually easier to control.  But some narrower skis will excel in crud while other wider skis just smear and skid (and vice versa).  How you power the ski matters a great deal too.

Coming back to the bolded above...ah, thanks for this hint! I think turn radius may be the relevant factor I'm noticing. Wider underfoot usually means longer turn radius, which makes sense (wider waist relative to tip/tail), though not always. And yes, longer can also sometimes mean a longer turn radius, though again not always. Some of my digging today does suggest that a longer radius is easier to release the edge and smear/pivot. The Enforcer 88 had a relatively short radius which felt great carving but felt "catchy" elsewhere, whereas the Ranger 99 with longer radius felt easier to control.

While I think there's risk of overgeneralizing (certainly other design factors matter a lot), within the category and dimensions I'm looking at it may help shorten my list. The new Volkl M6 with variable radii is a lot more intriguing.

[FINate]

I found my ski today: 2022 Elan Black Edition Ripstick 96. They had a demo in 188 that I rented today. Ski is stiff and damp, great in crud/chunder, and very good on hard snow.  But also surprisingly lightweight compared to its titinal brethren, very quick and flickable. Had a great time on moguls, icy steeps, goomers, and choppy soft, but also taking it slower with the family. Such a fun ski, exactly what I was looking for. On returning it I promptly bought their last pair of 188s.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Picking out skis was a good deal more involved than expected :)

[nereo]

That's a nice looking ski... Glad you found something you love, now get out there and enjoy this craptastic winter before it's completely gone!*

I'll likely be repeating your journey next year, as my main ski started to delaminate last season after 8 winters of hard use (Rossignal Ti 82' Avenger). Too bad... I absolutely loved that ski, but it sounds like there's a lot of better stuff out there.


*at least here in the NorthEast we are having a very sub-par winter. Normally we'd head up into Canada to get better conditions, but sadly the border is locked-down.

[FINate]

They're saying our ski hill may remain open until the end of April this year. Looking forward to some slushy spring skiing.

The other thing I forgot to mention is that I have boots arriving soon. The bigger ski shops in town told me, in no uncertain terms, that it would be completely impossible to find anything in my size right now. But the guy at the smaller shop that carries Elan spent some time searching around in their vendor database and found a boot that should world well, getting fitted this week. They'll have my business again when it's time for DW to get her own gear.

You certainly picked a better year for buying a new ski, hopefully the supply chain problems are resolved by then.

[honeybbq]

I found my ski today: 2022 Elan Black Edition Ripstick 96. They had a demo in 188 that I rented today. Ski is stiff and damp, great in crud/chunder, and very good on hard snow.  But also surprisingly lightweight compared to its titinal brethren, very quick and flickable. Had a great time on moguls, icy steeps, goomers, and choppy soft, but also taking it slower with the family. Such a fun ski, exactly what I was looking for. On returning it I promptly bought their last pair of 188s.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Picking out skis was a good deal more involved than expected :)

Right on! We are at ~150% of regular snowpack so we are having a blast!

[GuitarStv]

Are you dead set on skis?  I learned to ski as a kid, but took up snowboarding in adulthood.  Snowboarding is much more fun to me (although a little more challenging).

[FINate]

Well, I'm kind of committed now :)

As mentioned up thread, I started out skiing in high school, then did snowboarding for ~15 years before switching back this year. Snowboarding is fun and I may do it again. The learning curve is different, a bit steeper at first (that back edge is a cruel teacher), but once the basics are down it's kind of simple and unsubtle. There's a joke in there somewhere, lol. Back when I could realistically go maybe 10 days a year this made a lot of sense because I was able to cover most of the mountain within the first season.

Now we live close to skiing and will get in around 40 days this season. I enjoy the challenge and nuance of skiing, lots of different turns and subtle techniques. Also like having two out of four edges to work with. Plus, no more strapping in/out each run, and can skate the skis on the flats. So, yeah, I guess I'm sold on skiing now that I have the time to actually learn it.

[Fuzz]

Are you west of the Mississippi? Get a ~106 underfoot ski with a turn radius around 15-20m. Stick with mainstream brand like Atomic or Rossignol. The Stocklis, Blizzards and Volks you selected are close to the stiffest skis in the market. Unless you grew up ski racing, I would avoid them. The Rossi Soul 7 series is super popular for a reason, although may be a touch soft for your weight. So I suggest an Atomic Vantage 107 in a 182 or 189. Done :)

[FINate]

Are you west of the Mississippi? Get a ~106 underfoot ski with a turn radius around 15-20m. Stick with mainstream brand like Atomic or Rossignol. The Stocklis, Blizzards and Volks you selected are close to the stiffest skis in the market. Unless you grew up ski racing, I would avoid them. The Rossi Soul 7 series is super popular for a reason, although may be a touch soft for your weight. So I suggest an Atomic Vantage 107 in a 182 or 189. Done :)

Thanks for weighing in. I'm in Idaho. Some of the 100+ underfoot skis were temping, but decided the mid-90 range was more suitable as a daily driver for our typical conditions. I prefer a stiffer ski because I'm on the taller/heavier side and often ski fast and aggressive in crud where I experience a lot of chatter in a softer ski. It also feels like the softer skis don't do as well in hard/icy conditions, though that could also be due to ski shape and less effective edge on the hard stuff.

I may eventually pick up a wide dedicated powder ski. But for now I'm extremely happy with the Elan 96s, near perfect for my skiing style, skill, and mountain conditions. Very well rounded, they do everything I want very well.

Also, my boots arrived last week. Loving the proper fit, and the increased stiffness in the 130. Everything feels way more responsive and stable.

[nereo]

IntereSting to hear someone say that about Atomics - those are definitely the most race-forward ski I’ve owned... took a lot of leg and the heaviest I’ve owned.  Fun though.  Fisher and Blizzards were among the more casual, laid back I’ve skied, so much so that I never enjoyed them very much, too bendy at speed.  I guess lines change quite a bit.

[FINate]

The newer Blizzard Bonafide 97, Nordica Enforcer 100 and Fischer Ranger 99 Ti are all extremely stiff and damp. This is due mostly to the metal laminants, which also adds a lot of weight. Some reviewers remark that weight is a good thing for busting crud, which is probably true. But the all-mountain category seems to be in a race to build ever heavier skis. According to Blister Review, the Bonafide was 2085g in 2015, 2167g in 2017, and now 2281g. The Nordica Enforcer has had a similar progression. I wonder where it stops, how much is too much? I didn't mind pushing around extra weight and understand the advantage of it, but it does result in less playfulness/quickness. I'm not racing or doing anything competitive so I'll happily take the dampness of a stiff ski without excess weight...I just had way more fun, and they were compliant at lower speeds which is important when with the family.

[nereo]

The newer Blizzard Bonafide 97, Nordica Enforcer 100 and Fischer Ranger 99 Ti are all extremely stiff and damp. This is due mostly to the metal laminants, which also adds a lot of weight. Some reviewers remark that weight is a good thing for busting crud, which is probably true. But the all-mountain category seems to be in a race to build ever heavier skis. According to Blister Review, the Bonafide was 2085g in 2015, 2167g in 2017, and now 2281g. The Nordica Enforcer has had a similar progression. I wonder where it stops, how much is too much? I didn't mind pushing around extra weight and understand the advantage of it, but it does result in less playfulness/quickness. I'm not racing or doing anything competitive so I'll happily take the dampness of a stiff ski without excess weight...I just had way more fun, and they were compliant at lower speeds which is important when with the family.

The progression of arious ski designs is really interesting to hear.  It's been several years since I went through a similar progress.  I do find the history of what's considered "standard' to be pretty amusing.  I can remember when K2 came out with the Coomba and there was equal parts shock and powder-lust to get a ski that was over 100mm at the waist. Now it's commonplace.  Around the same time Rossi came out with their S7 and Rocker skis became a thing. 
In the early 90s (not THAT long ago... rmight?  right???) you couldn't find an 82mm+ ski in your neighborhood ski ship, and all skis were straight. Twin-tips didn't exist.  Now you are hard pressed to find anything narrower (unless they carry dedicated race skis) and everything is parabolic.

[FINate]

The newer Blizzard Bonafide 97, Nordica Enforcer 100 and Fischer Ranger 99 Ti are all extremely stiff and damp. This is due mostly to the metal laminants, which also adds a lot of weight. Some reviewers remark that weight is a good thing for busting crud, which is probably true. But the all-mountain category seems to be in a race to build ever heavier skis. According to Blister Review, the Bonafide was 2085g in 2015, 2167g in 2017, and now 2281g. The Nordica Enforcer has had a similar progression. I wonder where it stops, how much is too much? I didn't mind pushing around extra weight and understand the advantage of it, but it does result in less playfulness/quickness. I'm not racing or doing anything competitive so I'll happily take the dampness of a stiff ski without excess weight...I just had way more fun, and they were compliant at lower speeds which is important when with the family.

The progression of arious ski designs is really interesting to hear.  It's been several years since I went through a similar progress.  I do find the history of what's considered "standard' to be pretty amusing.  I can remember when K2 came out with the Coomba and there was equal parts shock and powder-lust to get a ski that was over 100mm at the waist. Now it's commonplace.  Around the same time Rossi came out with their S7 and Rocker skis became a thing. 
In the early 90s (not THAT long ago... rmight?  right???) you couldn't find an 82mm+ ski in your neighborhood ski ship, and all skis were straight. Twin-tips didn't exist.  Now you are hard pressed to find anything narrower (unless they carry dedicated race skis) and everything is parabolic.

Indeed, the skis I learned on in the early 90s were straight and narrow by today's standards. Parabolic skis were just becoming a thing when I switched over to snowboarding, remember a friend demoing a pair and thinking to myself "those look weird!" Yet the old straight skis worked well and I mostly rode them just fine... except off-piste or in soft snow. What a royal pain, fun factor 0. I'm sure the problem was was my lack of skill, but also think the newer designs just work better in general in more conditions. Modern skis also turn themselves way more than their predecessors. Early in the season I was mostly pushing skis around with my legs/feet to make turns when one day something clicked and I got the feeling for just laying them over on edge and letting the ski rip, then using the energy from the camber to pop me up for the next turn. What a joy!

I wonder if the ski industry evolves in some of the same patterns as the bike industry, which I'm more familiar with. For example, the All Mountain category for mountain bikes is analogous to its namesake in skis: jack of all trades, master of none. Mostly for regular Joes looking for a one-bike quiver that can do most things reasonably well without buying multiple $5000 bikes. But the target demographic is also aspirational and the market is saturated, so designs evolve becoming incrementally more capable in certain aspects. More travel, slacker head angle, longer chainstay, and before you know it some of these all mountain bikes are blurring categories with more downhill oriented bikes. It does seem to me like the heavier wider metal laminate all mountain skis are getting into big mountain freeride territory.

[FINate]

Hah! I was just in the ski shop getting my liners heat moulded and noticed a very new looking set of old style skis. Apparently Elan made a commemorative straight ski for its 75th anniversary:

https://elanskis.com/us_en/rc-comprex-aadgmg20200

The guy at the shop said people demo it for fun, and to see/remember what the skis were like back then. So there you go, if you want to relive the good ol' days head to your local Elan dealer and maybe they'll have this for demo.

[mntnmn117]

Well, I'm kind of committed now :)

I went through similar adjustment, Snowboarded for 15 years. Got the kids out a few times starting in 2018 and it really helped to be on skis.  But I also realized it's a pretty short window where your kids need any help. I got an old swap meet set I use with the 6 year old, but otherwise stick to my nice Lib-tech snowboard. We only do downhill about 1 week/yr, I really enjoy 1 week at a ski-in/ski-out resort versus the sat/sun trips fighting crowds.

Considering this is the MMM forums I should plug nordic skiing. We've actually switched to 90% cross country skiing, an $80 sno-park pass covers the whole season. Very different activity.

[FINate]

At this point I genuinely prefer skiing over snowboarding. Nothing against snowboarding, just find skiing more enjoyable. That's why I committed myself by purchasing skis :)

RE cost: Our local hill is non-profit and the prices are reasonable. Adult midweek season passes went on early sale for $199, though we buy the full pass because we sometimes ski weekends/blackout dates, I'll ride my mountain bike over the summer, and they're a great org and I want to give them more money. We go enough that our amortized cost per lift ticket is somewhere around $5-$10, not bad. And we mostly go midweek and basically have the place to ourselves, no lines, few if any people on the runs. My kids complain about the "crowds" when we go weekends or holidays. LOL, they have no idea what Tahoe is like on a holiday or weekend.

[Fuzz]

Awesome! Sounds like a great ski.

And since we're on the thread drift, it amazes me that it took until the mid 90s for parabolics to arrive. People were shaping fiberglass surfboards in the 1960s. There is nothing new about the physics of it. And people were shaping wood skis ever since there were skis. So why did it take until the 90s for the pareto superior (I am assuming) parabolic ski to emerge? What possible technological bottleneck was there? And why didn't someone figure it out in their garage sooner.

Mountain bikes are also my favorite topic (skis are second), and I agree it's amazing how the all mountain category is blurring. The 130 or 120 mm rear travel bikes are amazing--and the suspensions are (finally) so good. A $3K 2021 Giant Trance is more capable than a $10K 2015 Santa Cruz (okay, possibly an exaggeration, but still). It is 100% more capable than anything made in the 2000s.

[FINate]

And since we're on the thread drift, it amazes me that it took until the mid 90s for parabolics to arrive. People were shaping fiberglass surfboards in the 1960s. There is nothing new about the physics of it. And people were shaping wood skis ever since there were skis. So why did it take until the 90s for the pareto superior (I am assuming) parabolic ski to emerge? What possible technological bottleneck was there? And why didn't someone figure it out in their garage sooner.

Good question. Maybe someone with industry experience can comment. My guess: Something to do with the cost of laying up the construction materials and edges in the parabolic shape.

Mountain bikes are also my favorite topic (skis are second), and I agree it's amazing how the all mountain category is blurring. The 130 or 120 mm rear travel bikes are amazing--and the suspensions are (finally) so good. A $3K 2021 Giant Trance is more capable than a $10K 2015 Santa Cruz (okay, possibly an exaggeration, but still). It is 100% more capable than anything made in the 2000s.

I test rode the new Tallboy yesterday. It's a 120 rear travel, so technically in the short travel XC-ish category but rides more like an all mountain. The head angle is slacker and better overall suspension, along with other geometry changes that give it a totally different feel. And to be honest, I'm probably getting too old for anything burlier.