Don't want to pay my AT&T cell phone off. How much will this hurt me?

[Aimza]

So AT&T screwed me out of $500 for porting in my number back in March. I've been fighting with them for 7 months and finally gave up and switched to Verizon. I still owe $733 on my phone to AT&T but as a matter of principle, I don't want to give them another dime.

If I let this bill go to collections, how much will my excellent credit score drop? I already have a mortgage, car, etc. so I won't need awesome credit for a bit. However, I also don't want to screw myself over because of them.

Advice?

[Mrs Brightside]

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

[Metalcat]

Having just a single outstanding item in collections can severely damage your credit.

Where I live, you can't even get a cell phone with the major carriers if you have a balance in collections with another cell carrier.

[reeshau]

You will be living with the consequences of that (in)action for 7 years.  By then, your future self will be kicking your former self for making an emotional decision.

https://www.myfico.com/credit-education/faq/negative-reasons/should-i-pay-my-collections

[Daley]

There's also the issue of carrier SIM locks and IMEI blacklists, which is basically going to get your shiny rectangle that can currently only be used on AT&T as tagged as stolen in AT&T's databases, killing what little resale value it might have. And let's not forget that you're probably now trapped in the exact same financial nightmare labyrinth with another carrier, swapping out one overpriced phone and postpaid contract for another.

Next time, stop pretending $1000 cellphones with two year service contracts are good deals, and don't believe the free lunch switch offers, especially without going over the fine print and terms of service with a fine tooth comb first before agreeing to anything. This is just as much your fault for blindly buying into their circus as it is theirs. And even if you did - AT&T potentially violating their own contracts for their own financial benefit? *gasp* Who would have ever expected that!

Seriously.... play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Buy a used or refurbished carrier unlocked phone that's able to do VoLTE on the best network for coverage in your region, keep your budget under $200 for the fool thing, and find a good MVNO on that network. Or better yet, pay off what you owe on your ridiculously overpriced phone you already have, keep it and use it with a decent Verizon MVNO instead, and live with what you already own instead of helping to push even more electronic waste. Because of this sort of strategy, most of the people around here spend less on their cellphones (handsets included) in a year than you probably shell out in four months just for your contract.

I only spent $50 on my last smartphone two years ago (that includes a screen protector and case), and I only spend $10/month on service through Red Pocket, because I know how much airtime, text messages and data I know I actually use per month, and this plan is more than big enough for me to even carry me on heavy usage months for my calling habits. Heck, there are even folk here that don't even own, use or need a cellphone! You might not be able to get it down as low as myself or some of the others around here, but it's unlikely you need to be spending more than about $25-30 a month on this stuff, and never have to deal with a contract again.

[Aimza]

There's also the issue of carrier SIM locks and IMEI blacklists, which is basically going to get your shiny rectangle that can currently only be used on AT&T as tagged as stolen in AT&T's databases, killing what little resale value it might have. And let's not forget that you're probably now trapped in the exact same financial nightmare labyrinth with another carrier, swapping out one overpriced phone and postpaid contract for another.

Next time, stop pretending $1000 cellphones with two year service contracts are good deals, and don't believe the free lunch switch offers, especially without going over the fine print and terms of service with a fine tooth comb first before agreeing to anything. This is just as much your fault for blindly buying into their circus as it is theirs. And even if you did - AT&T potentially violating their own contracts for their own financial benefit? *gasp* Who would have ever expected that!

Seriously.... play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


Buy a used or refurbished carrier unlocked phone that's able to do VoLTE on the best network for coverage in your region, keep your budget under $200 for the fool thing, and find a good MVNO on that network. Or better yet, pay off what you owe on your ridiculously overpriced phone you already have, keep it and use it with a decent Verizon MVNO instead, and live with what you already own instead of helping to push even more electronic waste. Because of this sort of strategy, most of the people around here spend less on their cellphones (handsets included) in a year than you probably shell out in four months just for your contract.

I only spent $50 on my last smartphone two years ago (that includes a screen protector and case), and I only spend $10/month on service through Red Pocket, because I know how much airtime, text messages and data I know I actually use per month, and this plan is more than big enough for me to even carry me on heavy usage months for my calling habits. Heck, there are even folk here that don't even own, use or need a cellphone! You might not be able to get it down as low as myself or some of the others around here, but it's unlikely you need to be spending more than about $25-30 a month on this stuff, and never have to deal with a contract again.

WOW! Well aren't you a freakin' sweetheart. For your information, smartass, I didn't enter into a contract with AT&T. I was free to leave at any time and I did. I have never had a company not honor its agreement before, so this is new to me.

 I didn't ask your stupid opinion on what I should have done in the past and I think your advice sucks and is abusive for no reason. I have bought used phones in the past and I have never been happy with them. After promotions and other things, this phone would have only ended up costing less than $325 and I would have had a top of the line phone under warranty that works very well.  My company pays my monthly bill so it didn't matter how high it was. Because I use it for work and I travel, I can't have some crappy little rinky dink plan like you do.

Furthermore, I can trade in the locked phone with Verizon and get $400 for it so a new phone with them will be only $300. Being blacklisted from any carrier wouldn't matter because I already have a family plan with Verizon so no big deal. Verizon is giving me 5 lines with unlimited everything for under $200 per month. That's a great deal for a high usage family with a trusted network with great phones.

Not every cheap deal is the best option for everyone at all times.

[bacchi]

There's also the issue of carrier SIM locks and IMEI blacklists, which is basically going to get your shiny rectangle that can currently only be used on AT&T as tagged as stolen in AT&T's databases, killing what little resale value it might have. And let's not forget that you're probably now trapped in the exact same financial nightmare labyrinth with another carrier, swapping out one overpriced phone and postpaid contract for another.

Next time, stop pretending $1000 cellphones with two year service contracts are good deals, and don't believe the free lunch switch offers, especially without going over the fine print and terms of service with a fine tooth comb first before agreeing to anything. This is just as much your fault for blindly buying into their circus as it is theirs. And even if you did - AT&T potentially violating their own contracts for their own financial benefit? *gasp* Who would have ever expected that!

Seriously.... play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


Buy a used or refurbished carrier unlocked phone that's able to do VoLTE on the best network for coverage in your region, keep your budget under $200 for the fool thing, and find a good MVNO on that network. Or better yet, pay off what you owe on your ridiculously overpriced phone you already have, keep it and use it with a decent Verizon MVNO instead, and live with what you already own instead of helping to push even more electronic waste. Because of this sort of strategy, most of the people around here spend less on their cellphones (handsets included) in a year than you probably shell out in four months just for your contract.

I only spent $50 on my last smartphone two years ago (that includes a screen protector and case), and I only spend $10/month on service through Red Pocket, because I know how much airtime, text messages and data I know I actually use per month, and this plan is more than big enough for me to even carry me on heavy usage months for my calling habits. Heck, there are even folk here that don't even own, use or need a cellphone! You might not be able to get it down as low as myself or some of the others around here, but it's unlikely you need to be spending more than about $25-30 a month on this stuff, and never have to deal with a contract again.

WOW! Well aren't you a freakin' sweetheart. For your information, smartass, I didn't enter into a contract with AT&T. I was free to leave at any time and I did. I have never had a company not honor its agreement before, so this is new to me.

 I didn't ask your stupid opinion on what I should have done in the past and I think your advice sucks and is abusive for no reason. I have bought used phones in the past and I have never been happy with them. After promotions and other things, this phone would have only ended up costing less than $325 and I would have had a top of the line phone under warranty that works very well.  My company pays my monthly bill so it didn't matter how high it was. Because I use it for work and I travel, I can't have some crappy little rinky dink plan like you do.

Furthermore, I can trade in the locked phone with Verizon and get $400 for it so a new phone with them will be only $300. Being blacklisted from any carrier wouldn't matter because I already have a family plan with Verizon so no big deal. Verizon is giving me 5 lines with unlimited everything for under $200 per month. That's a great deal for a high usage family with a trusted network with great phones.

Not every cheap deal is the best option for everyone at all times.

Take it in the spirit in which it is given. These are the MMM forums after all.

There are plenty of quality MVNOs out there. You can get a 8GB data plan at Mint Mobile, for example, for $20/month. That's $100/month for a family of five; a 3GB data plan is $75/month. (If you use more than 8GB/month, not including wifi, then you might want to address that first.) Why would you turn down $1200+/year?

There are also plenty of quality, new, phones out there for less than $400. The Pixel is one and the TCL 10L is another. Or get a used S10 for $400.

Finally, you're not going to get away with trading a locked phone, that is effectively stolen because you owe $753 on it, to Verizon. Why would they take it when AT&T is going to invalidate the IMEI?

[Daley]

WOW! Well aren't you a freakin' sweetheart.

Listen, you were the one who asked for advice, I simply pointed out the reality of what you're doing and the other side consequences that hadn't already been addressed.

Given the contradictions between this post and your OP about the finances at play and how defensive you are, however, I think I hit a nerve. Maybe you're having a bad day, I don't know. I'm sorry if you've been offended, but sometimes hearing the truth hurts... but it's also the truth that sets us free.

If you think $200/month for five lines and perpetually new flagship phones with Verizon is a great deal for yourself and the world at large, I don't know what to tell you... but perhaps you still might not actually understand what this community is genuinely about, let alone the fine print of what you've actually signed up for.

I highly recommend you actually read your entire contracts with both AT&T and Verizon before you respond again. If that $500 AT&T stiffed you on wasn't for a port-in promo, it means it was for an unfinished time in service for a phone discount promo. That is a contract. You may be free to leave at any time, but if you leave before committing to the time you agreed to for the fancy phone discount you got when you joined, you have to pay full price for the phone, less the pro-rated discount for the time spent there. Verizon is no different. The fact that you've gotten angry at AT&T and myself for pointing this out speaks volumes. You're upset, I get it, and you'd rather not beat yourself up for it, but it makes you want to lash out. Lashing out at them, or me, isn't going to do you a lick of good. You will never get even with them, because the house always wins and there's no such thing as a free lunch. And that's the thing, this is how the mobile industry has operated for decades. Nothing here is new. The salesmen lie, there's always a contract, the contract you sign up for will always be in their favor, and the phone is never free. The weasel words and marketspeak are the only things that have changed, and it's gotten very Newspeak.

If this stuff truly upsets you, and honestly it should, then the best decision is to hurt them where it hurts - financially. You do that by not playing their stupid games in the first place. Until you stop, expecting any other outcome will only drive you insane. There's a whole world of ways to keep as much money out of their hands as possible while still having to own the digital ball and chain, but it requires you to think and behave differently than you are currently. I wish you well on that journey, and though I could have helped you directly with that, it seems wise to pass on expending the effort in this instance.

[reeshau]

Next time, stop pretending $1000 cellphones with two year service contracts are good deals, and don't believe the free lunch switch offers, especially without going over the fine print and terms of service with a fine tooth comb first before agreeing to anything. This is just as much your fault for blindly buying into their circus as it is theirs. And even if you did - AT&T potentially violating their own contracts for their own financial benefit? *gasp* Who would have ever expected that!

Seriously.... play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

WOW! Well aren't you a freakin' sweetheart. For your information, smartass,

It's called a facepunch.  (speaking of not getting the details of a thing...)  Expect more of them here.  They happen often.  Surely, you have seen one or two before.

It's a form of tough love.

[Khaetra]

It'll hurt you quite a bit.  Pay off the phone, expensive lesson learned, don't finance phones in the future.

Next time you want a shiny new thing, pay for it in cash up front.  If you can't afford to do that, then you can't afford the new shiny thing.

[Aimza]

You guys are all pretty much a special kind of assholes. I simply asked a question and none of you gave me an actual answer. You just want to try to make yourself feel better that you skimp on every thing in your life. I am mustachian in many ways, but this is not one of them.

BTW, yes I could afford to pay for this phone in full at any time and hundreds more just like it if I wanted to; however, that doesn't mean that I should get screwed on a promotion that AT&T is failing to honor.

Tough love and face punches have their time and place. This was not one of them.

[Daley]

You guys are all pretty much a special kind of assholes. I simply asked a question and none of you gave me an actual answer. You just want to try to make yourself feel better that you skimp on every thing in your life. I am mustachian in many ways, but this is not one of them.

BTW, yes I could afford to pay for this phone in full at any time and hundreds more just like it if I wanted to; however, that doesn't mean that I should get screwed on a promotion that AT&T is failing to honor.

Tough love and face punches have their time and place. This was not one of them.

If AT&T actually violated a contract, that means you can take legal action and legal action to flag and fight the collections attempts on your credit rating. But you haven't and I suspect even if you tried, you'd fail, because what you describe in your own words IS A CONTRACT THAT YOU VIOLATED. They gave you an expensive phone, and they're charging you money for it after leaving them before the required time served under that plan was met before receiving it for free. Under no circumstances can AT&T get away with charging you that sort of money unless YOU violated the contract first. Their lawyers are smart enough to bleed people to death financially outside of their contracts by nickle and dime-ing their customers. Like $50 small claims court kind of stuff.

I'm sorry that this upsets you, but it's the reality of the situation. None of us are here to go, "There, there, the mean old multi-billion dollar telecom legally screwed you over because you didn't read or understand the fine print, so we agree that you should do stupid things with money and contracts that make you feel better right now and justify being mad despite those very attitudes and choices hurting you even further down the road." These people are not in the business of giving away free equipment and service... and we as a community are pragmatists about the financial reality of choices and how to deal with it wisely.

You asked for advice. We told you that not honoring your end of the contract YOU entered into with them will hurt you financially now and later. We told you how, we told you why, and we told you how to avoid getting into the situation again so you won't keep getting hurt by it. And this is your answer to that.

Good luck with your Verizon postpaid contract. You're gonna need it.

[Retire-Canada]

You guys are all pretty much a special kind of assholes.

When you feel like you are surrounded by assholes in a situation it's worth considering that there are two options that explain this feeling:

1. the people you are dealing with are all assholes.

2. you are the one being an asshole and you are feeling that reflected back from a bunch of reasonable people.

I'll leave it up to you to decided what's going here, but if you find you have to deal with a bunch of assholes fairly often and they are different groups of people each time I'd suggest giving some thought to the situation being #2.

[bacchi]

BTW, yes I could afford to pay for this phone in full at any time and hundreds more just like it if I wanted to; however, that doesn't mean that I should get screwed on a promotion that AT&T is failing to honor.

If you truly believe that AT&T is in the wrong, report it to the CFPB. They're actually pretty responsive.

[Daley]

BTW, yes I could afford to pay for this phone in full at any time and hundreds more just like it if I wanted to; however, that doesn't mean that I should get screwed on a promotion that AT&T is failing to honor.

If you truly believe that AT&T is in the wrong, report it to the CFPB. They're actually pretty responsive.

Agreed... though I suspect their answer after hearing back from AT&T on the matter is pretty much going to echo what I said. OP even admitted conditions that would justify said fees if their end of the bargain wasn't met in the "promo". People are always free to leave whenever they want, and AT&T is always free to charge anything extra they like as stated in the contract if that time of departure is before the agreed upon date that was given in exchange for the shiny provided.

AT&T may be greedy and shady enough to pull off sticking phantom $0.69 Administration fees on people's bills, and then tripling that fee to $1.99 just to boost wireless revenues by $800 million plus a year leaving nothing but regulatory slaps and garbage class-actions that don't even dent going after those numbers, but they're also smart enough to not try and pull singling out random people for some sub-$1000 charge without having a bulletproof contract to hide behind. That is bad for business if they didn't, both from a publicity standpoint, and a financial one. It's all about playing the legal odds of cost, and this historically has been a non-starter because it's easy to lose far more than they'd get from pulling those sorts of shenanigans claimed without a contract to waive, which is always why cash grabs of these sizes are buried into those contracts. Dollars to donuts they'll be able to produce a contract approving those fees if some condition goes unfulfilled by OP with their signature at the bottom that was taken when the phone was delivered, and they will likely have no problem providing evidence of the violation of that contract to justify the charge.

The only way to beat this in the future is to stop playing the "free phone" or "free money for switching and trade-in" postpaid with contract game in the first place, and the math has proven time and again that paying cash for a new phone and going to a cheaper MVNO will always be cheaper over the lifespan of the handset than trying to get it under a promo with a postpaid contract. I get that some folks actually do potentially need postpaid under certain usage case scenarios, but even then, it's usually cheaper long term to buy the handset outright instead of playing stupid marketing games. And just like used-car trade ins with phones, you'll never get back from the dealer as much as if you sold it yourself, and if you think you did, they're hosing you somewhere else. The house always wins.

I feel bad for OP, it sucks getting nailed down like this, but it's also how the industry works. Caveat emptor.

And even if they do have a legal leg to stand on and want to pursue it legally out of principle? Do the right thing, pay off the phone anyway, and then get their tiny little pound of flesh back. Dealing in good faith on your end when legally fighting this sort of thing goes a lot farther than trying to stiff a bill out of vengeance.

[alsoknownasDean]

So AT&T screwed me out of $500 for porting in my number back in March. I've been fighting with them for 7 months and finally gave up and switched to Verizon. I still owe $733 on my phone to AT&T but as a matter of principle, I don't want to give them another dime.

If I let this bill go to collections, how much will my excellent credit score drop? I already have a mortgage, car, etc. so I won't need awesome credit for a bit. However, I also don't want to screw myself over because of them.

Advice?

How long would you like to have a default on your credit file for? Would you want to move or refinance your mortgage at all in the next few years?

Pay it, get a SIM card from another carrier that works in your phone, and move on.

[Sibley]

You guys are all pretty much a special kind of assholes. I simply asked a question and none of you gave me an actual answer. You just want to try to make yourself feel better that you skimp on every thing in your life. I am mustachian in many ways, but this is not one of them.

BTW, yes I could afford to pay for this phone in full at any time and hundreds more just like it if I wanted to; however, that doesn't mean that I should get screwed on a promotion that AT&T is failing to honor.

Tough love and face punches have their time and place. This was not one of them.

Then please leave the forums. You came here asking for our advice and knowledge, and have only returned abuse because you didn't get the answers you wanted. If that makes us "a special kind of asshole", then I'm fine with being that kind of asshole.

Daley is widely considered to be THE expert on this stuff around here. He's responded to your question with detailed information, and has been remarkably polite in the face of extreme rudeness from you.

[Jouer]

You've already hurt them by switching providers. You've voted with your wallet. Pay them and forget about it.

[Daley]

Listen, I appreciate folks riding to my defense here, and no matter how uncivil some of the responses have been by OP, I'd really like to call for a bit more civility towards them if anyone else wants to toss in on the thread here. Two wrongs don't make a right.

@Aimza is clearly hurting, and frustrated and angry... and I probably didn't help that too much being so blunt with them out of the gate, and when you're already pushing towards emotional reactions to stuff, sometimes the subelty of language can be lost and can misconstrue statements like, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes," as some sort of personal attack calling them stupid. That was never the intent by me. Are the games and "rewards" played by mobile telecoms stupid? Absolutely. But playing them repeatedly only becomes a less than wise decision if you keep doing the same thing after getting burned, somehow expecting another outcome. I suspect given what was shared in the OP, Aimza was simply naive. There's no shame in that. And even those who still elect to play stupid games after getting burned aren't what I'd call stupid people, because it's the game that's stupid... the person still playing it after the fact at that point is just a glutton for punishment or unnecessarily stubborn if they don't learn from it, which really does nothing for their self worth on its own anyway, and really doesn't need to be dog-piled on if they're not in a place where they're willing to make the change away from that self-destructive behavior in the first place.

All the same, Aimza's anger and frustration is not wholly unjustified. The problem is how that energy is being channeled, and that's something that takes practice and experience to learn, and it's not really an easy thing to learn unless you're already clever enough to be a dishonest a-hole in the first place but choose to not take advantage of it. It sucks playing legalball with corporations who try to screw you out of deals over trivialities, and setting those games up in the first place isn't exactly what I'd deem to be a reputable or honorable act. This is the same sort of shenanigans you see with rigged carny midway games and casinos. It's awful, and that level of awful is only compounded by the fact that these sorts of things specifically target the trusting, naive, uneducated and genteel, which are some of the most honorable and vulnerable people in our population. The fact that more isn't done to protect them is heartbreaking, and worse? The fact that the things that have been done to try and address it has only made it easier for them to get away with it without repercussion because they know how to legally stack the odds in their favor to begin with due to how defined the lines have now become... and a lot of people just don't know that. We're a nation that's lost the capacity for critical thinking, and become a very greedy nation that's easily swayed through the psychological manipulation in advertising for the sake of preying on that greed. Of course, the only way to avoid getting exploited in this way is to just not play the game to begin with, and it's the best response, too, because it's one that leaves at least one less person to exploit. Most anything else is just a Pyrrhic victory.

For those pie-eyed optimists out there, do you remember the first time you got royally hosed by this sort of thing, and how much it hurt and the time it took to process it? This sucks. Even as a born curmudgeonly and angry pessimist, the first time I got burned like this really sucked, even if it didn't surprise me. I want to be an optimist, I want to trust people at their word... but I know that can't be done, so I try to educate with the philosophy of trust but verify. I try to help people learn that second-hand, to learn from my mistakes for their own benefit. But some people have to learn first hand, too... and sticking your hand on a hot stove is gonna hurt. All you can do under that circumstance is try to make sure they pull the right lesson away from the experience if you see them jumping to a wrong conclusion that's still gonna leave them hurting.

Cut 'em some slack.