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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: startingsmall on April 19, 2018, 08:29:17 PM

Title: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 19, 2018, 08:29:17 PM
My job contract required 2 months notice, so I sucked it up and gave 2 months. I'm now one month in and I just don't think I can do it anymore. We've had the week from hell. (I'm a veterinarian in a busy, rural, low-cost clinic.) The other associate vet has almost walked out multiple times. It's nuts. We're overbooked and understaffed.

This morning, I looked at the schedule and realized that I have 23 patients scheduled in the span of 3.5 hours on an upcoming weekend shift. I overheard my manager talking about adding another patient that day and told her that I absolutely COULD NOT see any more patients in that timeframe. Later, I went back and saw that she added the appointment anyway.

When I confronted her, she told me that I'm making a big deal out of nothing, this is totally normal, etc. (It isn't. In the clinic I'm going to, 3.5 hrs = 11 appointments. In most vet clinics, 3.5 hrs =7-11 appts.) She then went on to say "You're obviously just an unhappy person. You'll NEVER be happy anywhere."

Hmm. Rings a bell. That's exactly what my abusive ex-husband used to say.

So, I'm going to work tomorrow. Haven't yet decided whether I'll continue attempting to work out my notice or whether I'll make tomorrow my last day. I want to work my full notice and not be a jackass, but I kind of feel like these circumstances may warrant leaving only one month into my two month notice. Do they? Or am I just an unreasonable and unhappy person?

(For the record, my contract does say something along the lines of "associate doctors are expected to give 60 days notice," but also REPEATEDLY emphasizes that all employment is "at will" with no specified contract period. If anyone with knowledge of employment law has any thoughts, or wants a more detailed description of what's the contract, I'd be happy to oblige!)
Title: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 19, 2018, 08:33:20 PM
My job contract required 2 months notice, so I sucked it up and gave 2 months. I'm now one month in and I just don't think I can do it anymore. We've had the week from hell. (I'm a veterinarian in a busy, rural, low-cost clinic.) The other associate vet has almost walked out multiple times. It's nuts. We're overbooked and understaffed.

This morning, I looked at the schedule and realized that I have 23 patients scheduled in the span of 3.5 hours on an upcoming weekend shift. I overheard my manager talking about adding another patient that day and told her that I absolutely COULD NOT see any more patients in that timeframe. Later, I went back and saw that she added the appointment anyway.

When I confronted her, she told me that I'm making a big deal out of nothing, this is totally normal, etc. (It isn't. In the clinic I'm going to, 3.5 hrs = 11 appointments. In most vet clinics, 3.5 hrs =7-11 appts.) She then went on to say "You're obviously just an unhappy person. You'll NEVER be happy anywhere."

Hmm. Rings a bell. That's exactly what my abusive ex-husband used to say.

So, I'm going to work tomorrow. Haven't yet decided whether I'll continue attempting to work out my notice or whether I'll make tomorrow my last day. I want to work my full notice and not be a jackass, but I kind of feel like these circumstances may warrant leaving only one month into my two month notice. Do they? Or am I just an unreasonable and unhappy person?

(For the record, my contract does say something along the lines of "associate doctors are expected to give 60 days notice," but also REPEATEDLY emphasizes that all employment is "at will" with no specified contract period. If anyone with knowledge of employment law has any thoughts, or wants a more detailed description of what's the contract, I'd be happy to oblige!)
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: MayDay on April 19, 2018, 08:36:16 PM
I'm no expert but I'd walk if your new job is secure.

2 months notice (assuming you are in the US and they aren't similarly committed to giving you two months notice) is crazy.

If you are worried, call an actual employment attorney tomorrow. A few hundred bucks might be worth the peace of mind to bail a month early.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: JLee on April 19, 2018, 08:38:43 PM
If you're at-will you could walk tomorrow and it should be fine.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: hdatontodo on April 19, 2018, 08:42:40 PM
How about working at a happy pace and getting to what you want?

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Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 19, 2018, 08:46:00 PM
How about working at a happy pace and getting to what you want?

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Considered that, but there is absolutely no way that I could bring myself to just walk out at the end of my scheduled shift with 5-10 clients/patients still sitting in the lobby and exam rooms. Wish I could, because it would make an incredible statement, but I can't.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 19, 2018, 09:01:59 PM
Here's the relevant quote from the contract, for any legal types....

"Veterinarian's employment is at-will, is not for any definite period of time, and may be terminated at any time with or without cause. Veterinarian should provide sixty (60) days advance written notice when Veterinarian intends to resign employment for any reason."

From a legal standpoint, I think I'm fine to ditch the BS tomorrow. It's just hard, because that means that covering this weekend will get dumped on someone else at the last minute and I don't want to be a jerk. But if my manager hadn't pulled the manipulative "you'll never be happy" crap, I wouldn't have to put them in this position.

Sigh.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Tuskalusa on April 19, 2018, 09:12:52 PM
I’m not a lawyer, but the contract says you “should” provide 60 days notice. It doesn’t say you “must” require 60 days notice. It also does not specify any ramifications of providing less than 60 days.

Presumably, the ramification of short notice is that they wouldn’t hire you back. That doesn’t sound like much of a concern...  ;-)
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Papa bear on April 19, 2018, 09:17:45 PM
Look through the rest of your contract for other penalties for leaving early. This is more common in the healthcare industry.

Check for non compete clauses, financial penalties for leaving, unpaid bonuses, etc. The organization can't force you to work, but you could have signed something onerous. Some of those clauses may even violate local laws, but act to "scare" someone into working the full notice.

Until you talk with a local lawyer, we're all just guessing though!


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Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: gooki on April 19, 2018, 09:22:52 PM
The other option is to do just the 3.5 hours work, attending to as many patients as reasonable and then going home.

The remaining 14 or so patients are not your problem.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: calimom on April 19, 2018, 11:08:14 PM
You sound terribly unhappy. Are you the one whose husband works as a minister or pastor or something in a town you don't like? Have you tried talking to him about how you feel? It doesn't sound sustainable. What are your options? Like if you walk off your job, is there another way to support your family; can you make an exit plan?
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on April 19, 2018, 11:56:46 PM
Where are you going next? When are you likely to need a reference from this place? Would it harm you in the industry if word got around? Do you live in the small local place and would it have a negative social impact on you?

Can you say to the manager that you will only work your scheduled hours during your notice period but understand if it would be better all around if you left now?

Could you go to a doctor and explain that the hours are having a negative impact on your health? Or just call in sick. You do sound really unhappy and stressed. I think you'll be healthier if you had a break from work (alas I'm not a doctor).

I'd go and I'd make it known that I'm concerned about the quality of care given how overbooked the clinic is.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 04:41:59 AM
I already have my next job lined up. They would probably be more than happy to let me start as early as next week, but I would like to take advantage of the block of time off to deal with my mental & physical health.

On Wednesday morning, I woke up with some pretty uncomfortable chest pain that continued until halfway through my shift. (Presumably anxiety. One of my coworkers previously worked as an EMT and said I didn't really raise any of the red flags for heart attack.) I've had a lot of GI issues in the last few months (yay, IBS flare-up!)

My husband is strongly pushing me to make today my last day, though he'd prefer I refuse to work even today.

I live almost an hour from this practice, so wouldn't ever again ned employment in their immediate area. Word wouldn't get from them to the areas where I'm more likely to work.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 04:44:23 AM
Look through the rest of your contract for other penalties for leaving early. This is more common in the healthcare industry.

Check for non compete clauses, financial penalties for leaving, unpaid bonuses, etc. The organization can't force you to work, but you could have signed something onerous. Some of those clauses may even violate local laws, but act to "scare" someone into working the full notice.

Until you talk with a local lawyer, we're all just guessing though!


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Thanks for the feedback! The only things my contract clearly prohibits are non-compete related, and I'm not violating the non-compete.

The other option is to do just the 3.5 hours work, attending to as many patients as reasonable and then going home.

The remaining 14 or so patients are not your problem.

Wish I could, but the clinic closes at the end of my shift. If I don't see them, they'll have to go home without being seen. I know myself and there's no way that I could do that.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on April 20, 2018, 05:44:02 AM
On Wednesday morning, I woke up with some pretty uncomfortable chest pain that continued until halfway through my shift. (Presumably anxiety. One of my coworkers previously worked as an EMT and said I didn't really raise any of the red flags for heart attack.) I've had a lot of GI issues in the last few months (yay, IBS flare-up!)

Shit. I'm with your husband. This is not good.

There is no contract that requires you to sacrifice your health like this.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Nick_Miller on April 20, 2018, 05:51:22 AM
I already have my next job lined up. They would probably be more than happy to let me start as early as next week, but I would like to take advantage of the block of time off to deal with my mental & physical health.

On Wednesday morning, I woke up with some pretty uncomfortable chest pain that continued until halfway through my shift. (Presumably anxiety. One of my coworkers previously worked as an EMT and said I didn't really raise any of the red flags for heart attack.) I've had a lot of GI issues in the last few months (yay, IBS flare-up!)

My husband is strongly pushing me to make today my last day, though he'd prefer I refuse to work even today.

I live almost an hour from this practice, so wouldn't ever again ned employment in their immediate area. Word wouldn't get from them to the areas where I'm more likely to work.

I suffered a bout like that before when I was working a high-stress job...it felt like an elephant was sitting on my chest, and I got checked out ASAP at the hospital, and yes it turned out to be stress/anxiety related; my heart was fine. I only say this to emphasize that I get what you experienced, and IMO, no job is worth that (especially a job you've scheduled to leave in 30 days!) You have already given 30 days notice. They should already already be well into in the process of finding a replacement. If they aren't, that's not on you.

I agree with your husband. It's honorable to want to fulfill your initial commitment, but not at the sacrifice of health/sanity. Good luck with whatever path you take!

Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: former player on April 20, 2018, 06:06:05 AM
What can your manager do if you call in sick?  I'm betting nothing.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Miss Piggy on April 20, 2018, 06:18:09 AM
Are you a short-term "contractor" similar to a "contractor" in the business world? If so, this clinic may be accustomed to replacing veterinarians on a fairly regular basis. Perhaps you could tell them you are willing to work three more days, and at that point, your replacement will need to be brought in. If the relationship is as bad as you say, it could be a win-win. Maybe they'll end up with someone who's a better fit for the ridiculously fast-paced style this clinic uses. (That was not an insult to you. Sometimes employment situations are just simply a bad match.)
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: asiljoy on April 20, 2018, 06:20:38 AM
What can your manager do if you call in sick?  I'm betting nothing.
Calling in sick to take care of your mental health is absolutely OK to do. My mom started me on this when I was a kid. We'd get a free day each semester to call a 'Mental Health Day' where we could stay home and just veg if we needed to. I've taken that into adulthood where I semi-routinely take off a seemingly random day if my brain just needs a break.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Gone Fishing on April 20, 2018, 06:30:21 AM
I'm not saying it's right, but coworkers, especially in high stress environments, often feel abandoned when someone leaves for greener pastures.  My last boss, who was a pretty good guy, made an strange attempt to load me up with a complex project (that was his) right before I left.  I sidestepped it as quietly as I could.  Another co-worker came in my office and broke down crying. 

Your co-workers are suffering a loss, and may react in in a number of different ways, including anger. Still doesn't make it right!

As far as notice goes, two weeks is customary for most jobs, perhaps longer for professionals with deep client relationships, such as some lawyers. 60 days is quite a long time to hang around after giving notice. The term "expected" is different than "required". As long as they don't have anything to hang over your head, I'd probably leave. I'd say something like I want to leave on a high note (even if there was none).

My previous employer requested 30 days, but was terrible about not starting the replacement process until someone was long gone.  I gave them the time they requested, but a week or two would have been much better for everyone.  Thankfully, they did actually start the replacement search before I left.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 06:30:31 AM
What can your manager do if you call in sick?  I'm betting nothing.
Calling in sick to take care of your mental health is absolutely OK to do. My mom started me on this when I was a kid. We'd get a free day each semester to call a 'Mental Health Day' where we could stay home and just veg if we needed to. I've taken that into adulthood where I semi-routinely take off a seemingly random day if my brain just needs a break.

I've already used my 10 days off for the year. If I take a day off, I would have to make it up by working my next day off... so that wouldn't really help me.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 06:33:15 AM
I'm not saying it's right, but coworkers, especially in high stress environments, often feel abandoned when someone leaves for greener pastures.  My last boss, who was a pretty good guy, made an strange attempt to load me up with a complex project (that was his) right before I left.  I sidestepped it as quietly as I could.  Another co-worker came in my office and broke down crying. 

Your co-workers are suffering a loss, and may react in in a number of different ways, including anger. Still doesn't make it right!

As far as notice goes, two weeks is customary for most jobs, perhaps longer for professionals with deep client relationships, such as some lawyers. 60 days is quite a long time to hang around after giving notice. The term "expected" is different than "required". As long as they don't have anything to hang over your head, I'd probably leave. I'd say something like I want to leave on a high note (even if there was none).

My previous employer requested 30 days, but was terrible about not starting the replacement process until someone was long gone.  I gave them the time they requested, but a week or two would have been much better for everyone.  Thankfully, they did actually start the replacement search before I left.

They've been advertising the opening for a month but haven't received any resumes. It's probably  going to take them a LONG time to find someone.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: jax8 on April 20, 2018, 06:38:03 AM
How about working at a happy pace and getting to what you want?

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Considered that, but there is absolutely no way that I could bring myself to just walk out at the end of my scheduled shift with 5-10 clients/patients still sitting in the lobby and exam rooms. Wish I could, because it would make an incredible statement, but I can't.

Would you be comfortable assesing the waiting room, pulling the animals that look to be in bad shape, and then telling the admin to have the rest reschedule for another day?  Maybe treat today's shift like an ER department.  Walk out in the waiting room and ask each owner, "What are you here for today?" and move down the line.  When you hear their answers, tell the admin, "Move her, her, and him into exam rooms.  The rest will have to be rescheduled."  Then walk back to work, leaving the office staff to deal with the unhappy pet owners.

It's no longer your clinic.  You're not responsible for making sure they have a good name in the community.  I get not wanting to leave animals suffering or disappointing the owners, but there's no sense killing yourself to over-perform during your notice period.  And if your manager decides to let you go before the end of your notice period--terrific!!!  You're miserable there anyway! 

Bonus:  In my state, letting an employee go before the end of their notice period can be claimed by the terminated employee as unemployment.  I generously gave a company a one month notice, and they turned around and told me to leave after 1 week.  I turned them in and recieved 2 weeks unemployment.  Win/win!  I stayed home and still recieved pay.  A quick google search of your state's unemployment qualifications may help you decide how to handle this period.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: former player on April 20, 2018, 06:52:23 AM
What can your manager do if you call in sick?  I'm betting nothing.
Calling in sick to take care of your mental health is absolutely OK to do. My mom started me on this when I was a kid. We'd get a free day each semester to call a 'Mental Health Day' where we could stay home and just veg if we needed to. I've taken that into adulthood where I semi-routinely take off a seemingly random day if my brain just needs a break.

I've already used my 10 days off for the year. If I take a day off, I would have to make it up by working my next day off... so that wouldn't really help me.
I don't think any job can make you work if you are sick.  Check your contract: are the 10 days off for the year "paid days"?  What does the contract say about "not paid days"?   Frankly, whatever it isays, if you can manage with the pay then call in sick anyway: they may dock your pay but I can't see that there is anything else they can do.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Papa bear on April 20, 2018, 06:53:23 AM
I'm not saying it's right, but coworkers, especially in high stress environments, often feel abandoned when someone leaves for greener pastures.  My last boss, who was a pretty good guy, made an strange attempt to load me up with a complex project (that was his) right before I left.  I sidestepped it as quietly as I could.  Another co-worker came in my office and broke down crying. 

Your co-workers are suffering a loss, and may react in in a number of different ways, including anger. Still doesn't make it right!

As far as notice goes, two weeks is customary for most jobs, perhaps longer for professionals with deep client relationships, such as some lawyers. 60 days is quite a long time to hang around after giving notice. The term "expected" is different than "required". As long as they don't have anything to hang over your head, I'd probably leave. I'd say something like I want to leave on a high note (even if there was none).

My previous employer requested 30 days, but was terrible about not starting the replacement process until someone was long gone.  I gave them the time they requested, but a week or two would have been much better for everyone.  Thankfully, they did actually start the replacement search before I left.

They've been advertising the opening for a month but haven't received any resumes. It's probably  going to take them a LONG time to find someone.

They need to contact an agency ASAP to find them either a locum tenens vet or pay a search fee.

You can check with a doctor about your anxiety/chest pain and look into FMLA for the remainder of your notice.  Again, this is all something a local lawyer can assist with.  Your health is not worth figuring out another month.

And to those comments above about this being an abnormal notice, this is fairly common with healthcare providers. We typically see up to 90 day notices required with major financial penalties for not upholding this. It's difficult to find talent and can be devastating to an area/location to have a provider leave. Someone has to see these patients, whether people or animals.


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Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 07:36:16 AM
I'm not saying it's right, but coworkers, especially in high stress environments, often feel abandoned when someone leaves for greener pastures.  My last boss, who was a pretty good guy, made an strange attempt to load me up with a complex project (that was his) right before I left.  I sidestepped it as quietly as I could.  Another co-worker came in my office and broke down crying. 

Your co-workers are suffering a loss, and may react in in a number of different ways, including anger. Still doesn't make it right!

As far as notice goes, two weeks is customary for most jobs, perhaps longer for professionals with deep client relationships, such as some lawyers. 60 days is quite a long time to hang around after giving notice. The term "expected" is different than "required". As long as they don't have anything to hang over your head, I'd probably leave. I'd say something like I want to leave on a high note (even if there was none).

My previous employer requested 30 days, but was terrible about not starting the replacement process until someone was long gone.  I gave them the time they requested, but a week or two would have been much better for everyone.  Thankfully, they did actually start the replacement search before I left.

They've been advertising the opening for a month but haven't received any resumes. It's probably  going to take them a LONG time to find someone.

They need to contact an agency ASAP to find them either a locum tenens vet or pay a search fee.

You can check with a doctor about your anxiety/chest pain and look into FMLA for the remainder of your notice.  Again, this is all something a local lawyer can assist with.  Your health is not worth figuring out another month.

And to those comments above about this being an abnormal notice, this is fairly common with healthcare providers. We typically see up to 90 day notices required with major financial penalties for not upholding this. It's difficult to find talent and can be devastating to an area/location to have a provider leave. Someone has to see these patients, whether people or animals.


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ALL of the vet clinics in our immediate area are currently advertising for a vet. Unfortunately, our area is not a desirable one (ranks near the bottom of national well-being studies), so getting people to move here is very difficult. There are no relief/locum vets currently serving this area - there was one, but he's not working right now.

Standard notice in veterinary contracts is 30 days. (That has been the case in my 5 prior positions, as well as what's reported as most common in surveys.) Sixty days is definitely not the norm, but not the worst I've heard of. I once turned down an otherwise-appealing job because the ONLY way to leave before the end of the one-year contract was to pay $50k or some similarly insane fee.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 07:37:37 AM
What can your manager do if you call in sick?  I'm betting nothing.
Calling in sick to take care of your mental health is absolutely OK to do. My mom started me on this when I was a kid. We'd get a free day each semester to call a 'Mental Health Day' where we could stay home and just veg if we needed to. I've taken that into adulthood where I semi-routinely take off a seemingly random day if my brain just needs a break.

I've already used my 10 days off for the year. If I take a day off, I would have to make it up by working my next day off... so that wouldn't really help me.
I don't think any job can make you work if you are sick.  Check your contract: are the 10 days off for the year "paid days"?  What does the contract say about "not paid days"?   Frankly, whatever it isays, if you can manage with the pay then call in sick anyway: they may dock your pay but I can't see that there is anything else they can do.

Veterinarians work with fevers, stomach flu, you name it. I've taken 2 sick days in 12 years. Not saying that to be a hero, but because it's the norm. You are expected to work unless hospitalized.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: MayDay on April 20, 2018, 07:41:18 AM
I get the expectation that you'll work, but who cares at this point? Call in sick, say you aren't available to work your offdays,and don't show up. What are they going to do?

Honestly given you have a month left it seems well worth a couple hundred bucks to consult and attorney and have them ready our contract.

Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: scottydog on April 20, 2018, 07:52:04 AM
Looking back on this in 5-10 years, what advice do you think you'd give your current self?

Maybe you could frame sticking it out as a challenge that will make you stronger. Among the times that suck, there could be occasional moments of joy with some patients and their owners. At the end of it, you could feel pretty badass.

On the other hand, it could also be pretty badass to simply say enough's enough.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: I'm a red panda on April 20, 2018, 07:54:09 AM
How about working at a happy pace and getting to what you want?

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Considered that, but there is absolutely no way that I could bring myself to just walk out at the end of my scheduled shift with 5-10 clients/patients still sitting in the lobby and exam rooms. Wish I could, because it would make an incredible statement, but I can't.

Honestly, it sounds like you need to.  As you start running behind, tell the reception staff that it is unlikely you will be able to get to those last patients, and ask them to reschedule.  Be courteous- but if this job is affecting your health, you can't continue with the crazy schedule.

I mean, I wouldn't do a slow down; but I'd work at the pace you can and do what you can. 
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Acastus on April 20, 2018, 07:55:32 AM
A great scene from Finity Hold by Barry Longyear:

Prisoners are headed to the prison planet. They are all shackled into chairs in a large auditorium on the ship. For months. When his buddy starts to lose it, our hero tells him to relax and try a little meditation. "Not long now, Dom. Just cruise."
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Freedomin5 on April 20, 2018, 07:58:05 AM
As a vet, are you under a similar oath to provide good care or at least to do no harm? Do you honestly feel you can provide good care in 10-minute appointments? If not, then under your ethics code, do you have a duty to inform clients and then help them to come up with a plan that will allow them the best care for their animals? Which might mean rescheduling them so they can get the time they deserve and need?
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Nate R on April 20, 2018, 08:20:39 AM
At will employment goes both ways. They can let you go at any time for any reason, BUT you can do the same. You can't have at-will AND a contract, I'd think. Which may be why they used the word "expected." If it's that bad, just go. Take some time off, and enjoy!
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: JLee on April 20, 2018, 08:30:29 AM
Look through the rest of your contract for other penalties for leaving early. This is more common in the healthcare industry.

Check for non compete clauses, financial penalties for leaving, unpaid bonuses, etc. The organization can't force you to work, but you could have signed something onerous. Some of those clauses may even violate local laws, but act to "scare" someone into working the full notice.

Until you talk with a local lawyer, we're all just guessing though!


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Thanks for the feedback! The only things my contract clearly prohibits are non-compete related, and I'm not violating the non-compete.

The other option is to do just the 3.5 hours work, attending to as many patients as reasonable and then going home.

The remaining 14 or so patients are not your problem.

Wish I could, but the clinic closes at the end of my shift. If I don't see them, they'll have to go home without being seen. I know myself and there's no way that I could do that.

You could make that your last day, though!
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: I'm a red panda on April 20, 2018, 08:40:42 AM
Look through the rest of your contract for other penalties for leaving early. This is more common in the healthcare industry.

Check for non compete clauses, financial penalties for leaving, unpaid bonuses, etc. The organization can't force you to work, but you could have signed something onerous. Some of those clauses may even violate local laws, but act to "scare" someone into working the full notice.

Until you talk with a local lawyer, we're all just guessing though!


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Thanks for the feedback! The only things my contract clearly prohibits are non-compete related, and I'm not violating the non-compete.

The other option is to do just the 3.5 hours work, attending to as many patients as reasonable and then going home.

The remaining 14 or so patients are not your problem.

Wish I could, but the clinic closes at the end of my shift. If I don't see them, they'll have to go home without being seen. I know myself and there's no way that I could do that.

I posted on your other thread too... but put a sign in the waiting room "This clinic closes at 5:30 (or whatever). If you have not been seen by 5:00 please speak to the receptionist to determine if you need to reschedule."

(And while I've never been rescheduled at my vet, I absolutely have at my neurosurgeon. They run 4+ hours behind sometimes...)
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Gone Fishing on April 20, 2018, 08:42:07 AM

Veterinarians work with fevers, stomach flu, you name it. I've taken 2 sick days in 12 years. Not saying that to be a hero, but because it's the norm. You are expected to work unless hospitalized.

I don't pull out the F-bomb often, but here it is!

Fuck their expectations!  This is your life and your health, not your employer's! This forum is about empowerment. You take care of your finances so YOU can set the expectations.  I worked in a pressure cooker for years. I got plenty of dirty looks, but when I was sick, I stayed home, when the kids were sick, my wife and I alternated.  I never abused the system, I just did what needed to be done.  When they piled on heaps of work, I worked hard to get done what I could, but at 5:30, I was on my way home to my family.  I was chastised for not pulling long hours in my reviews on occasion, but at the end of the day, I really feel like I was respected for my backbone, and was paid as well, (if not better) than everyone else.

You said it yourself, every clinic is hiring.  You have the opportunity to reinvent yourself with the new job.  Set forth YOUR expectations from the start.  If things blow up, move on to the next until you find a good fit. Why not go ahead and flex your FU muscles by walking out the door?





Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: bluebelle on April 20, 2018, 08:44:50 AM
I applaud your concern for animals and their owners.

The manager sounds like a manipulative DICK
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: GuitarStv on April 20, 2018, 08:47:01 AM
I'd give the 60 days notice, and then do the work in a way that keeps me sane.  That would mean:
- Only seeing as many patients as the time allows (if twice the number of patients are booked for a day as should be, only half will be seen)
- Only working the hours I signed up for (8 hours a day - 40hr weeks)

If anyone gave me shit for that, then I'd walk out the door with cause and no guilt.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: plog on April 20, 2018, 09:01:27 AM
Ugh. The only thing I dislike more than bullies are people who put up with bullies.  You are responsible for your own happiness. Don't externalize this to your employer being a piece of crap. Certainly they are, but stop being a willing victim.   

Youtube "Team America Assholes, Dicks and Pussies".   Seriously, its a life lesson you need to learn.

Avoiding confrontation is no longer the path of least resistance.  Work your time, no more, leave when you should.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: lbmustache on April 20, 2018, 09:14:59 AM
I gave a two week notice and stormed out one week into it. I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't even have a job lined up - that's how bad it got (thank god for FU money).

Treat the patients, walk out today, never look back. Congrats on the new job!
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: BNgarden on April 20, 2018, 10:24:04 AM
I would say, at end of shift today, "I've changed my mind, I will not work another day / another 30 days".

And for your coming recovery time off, I'd search out the book "The Assertive Option".  "...designed to build assertiveness skills and help reduce or prevent excessive anxiety, extreme anger, depression, guilt, worrying, or catastrophizing."  Mind-blowing for me; "You are allowed to change your mind".
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: BuildingmyFIRE on April 20, 2018, 11:44:02 AM
I haven't read the whole threat so sorry if this is duplicative.

The red flag that I see here is the potential for malpractice from being overbooked and not having sufficient time to give to each patient.  The risk to your patients and your license are not worth it.  If you are in a position to tell a receptionist to call some owners and cancel appointments, do it.  What are they going to do, fire you? 

And I agree with the other posters about having a local lawyer review your agreement asap.  You are at-will, so in theory you should be able to walk off the job immediately, but someone needs to do a comprehensive review of your agreement.  It should only take about 1-2 hours, depending on how long it is, between reviewing and advising you.  This sounds like an unsafe situation and you should try to exit it as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: former player on April 20, 2018, 12:09:13 PM
1)  Please don't make the mistake of thinking that mental health is less important than physical health.

2) The only person who can stop the next place you work from doing the same to you as this one has is you.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 12:12:00 PM
Are there any online legal resources that are legit/reputable? Something where you can do internet consults with an attorney in your state? I'm more than willing to pay, but unsure how I would get an in-person appointment in a timely manner when I work 8-6. I'm off next Tuesday, but wouldn't have a chance to call around until my lunch break on Monday.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: BuildingmyFIRE on April 20, 2018, 12:21:03 PM
Startingsmall:  What state do you live in?  For a matter as small as this, it could all be handled over email and the phone.  You shouldn't need to go to the lawyer's office. 

There are some "firms" that basically retain contract attorneys to whom they farm out work.  Some are better than others, but without knowing where you are, I can't say if you have one locally.

You can also go to your state's bar association to get a quick referral if you don't know anyone personally who can give you a referral.  If you know ANY lawyers at all, call them and request a referral-- they will almost certainly be able to hook you up with someone who specializes in employment law. 

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 12:40:04 PM
Startingsmall:  What state do you live in?  For a matter as small as this, it could all be handled over email and the phone.  You shouldn't need to go to the lawyer's office. 

There are some "firms" that basically retain contract attorneys to whom they farm out work.  Some are better than others, but without knowing where you are, I can't say if you have one locally.

You can also go to your state's bar association to get a quick referral if you don't know anyone personally who can give you a referral.  If you know ANY lawyers at all, call them and request a referral-- they will almost certainly be able to hook you up with someone who specializes in employment law. 

Hope that helps!

North Carolina
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Shane on April 20, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
Doesn't it seem at all strange to you that your employer reserves the right to fire you at any time with or without cause, but you, on the other hand, are expected to give 60 days notice? Why would you possibly feel any obligation to honor something as ridiculously one sided as that? You have the power to demand whatever you want from your manager. Just tell her how many patients you are willing to see during your shift, and make it clear that if your expectations are not met, you will walk out. Then the ball will be in your manager's court. If she wants you to stay, she will only schedule as many patients as you have indicated you are comfortable seeing. If she schedules even one more patient than you feel comfortable seeing during your shift, say goodbye to everyone and leave before the shift begins.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: BuildingmyFIRE on April 20, 2018, 01:51:28 PM
Startingsmall:  What state do you live in?  For a matter as small as this, it could all be handled over email and the phone.  You shouldn't need to go to the lawyer's office. 

There are some "firms" that basically retain contract attorneys to whom they farm out work.  Some are better than others, but without knowing where you are, I can't say if you have one locally.

You can also go to your state's bar association to get a quick referral if you don't know anyone personally who can give you a referral.  If you know ANY lawyers at all, call them and request a referral-- they will almost certainly be able to hook you up with someone who specializes in employment law. 

Hope that helps!

North Carolina

I can't help wrt NC as far as a referral, I'm sorry.  But I would suggest you reach out to the NC state bar association to get a referral. 
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: use2betrix on April 20, 2018, 02:34:16 PM
Unless your contract says more relevant info, “should,” in the contract world is typically deemed 100% preferred but not legally required.

I deal with engineering code/specification every day, and that’s how it works there.

If you’re 100% on your job lined up - I’d be out of there so fast.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Slee_stack on April 20, 2018, 03:13:18 PM
Doesn't it seem at all strange to you that your employer reserves the right to fire you at any time with or without cause, but you, on the other hand, are expected to give 60 days notice? Why would you possibly feel any obligation to honor something as ridiculously one sided as that?
A crazy disconnect for sure!

I do feel employers should be treated with the same respect they show their employees.  My current employer is not the worst...but they are remarkably shady in walking people out with ZERO notice.  Admittedly, a high temper employee may react very badly to a notice of eventual termination, so there's that...

Personally I still feel an urge to give anyone a standard two weeks notice.  Perhaps I think I'm being 'better'?  I don't know.

To the OP, I don't doubt they have true passion and empathy to the end patients (pets and their owners).  I admit that I'd personally struggle with the effect I had on them...more so than the dipshit boss/company.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Sibley on April 20, 2018, 03:25:47 PM
OP, I'm a pet owner. The pic is Sibley. She'll be 19 this summer. Isn't she cute? Point is, I've got 19 years of vet clinic experience.

Here's my ideal wish list in a vet clinic, in no particular order:
1. Convenient hours. Please, close a day during the week and be open on Saturday or something if you need to.
2. Good vets who care about the animals
3. Good staff who care about the animals
4. Good admin who care about the animals
5. Reasonable distance from my home
6. Reasonable prices (ie, fair, not overpriced, not underpriced)

Implicit in 2-4 is the expectation that these are decent people who treat each other, and clients, with compassion and competence. Your clinic isn't doing that.

I HAVE been rescheduled, sometimes on very short notice, because a clinic was massively too busy. I HAVE sat in the waiting room while they treated a critical animal who came in with little to no notice. I HAVE called the vet and said I'm bringing the cat in NOW because of ______. And they've taken said cat and treated her promptly, because she needed to be treated urgently. (Notice the element of triage. Sometimes, someone is sicker and they get bumped to the top)

In each of the 3 vet clinics that I've been at long term, they met all these things. They were clearly decent people who loved animals, got along decently, and did their best. Was everything perfect? I'm sure not. But it was decent.

I hope this helps reset your normal meter. Good luck finding such a vet clinic to practice at.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: fuzzy math on April 20, 2018, 04:36:00 PM
As a clinician I understand the pain you associate with "abandoning" your position. People who are advocating for 2 weeks being sufficient are missing out on the potential for harm that comes with leaving too few clinicians to take care of too many problems. There's also the logistical hassle of finding a licensed person in your state who could even take over. Licensure can take months in a new state.

I think in good faith you should try to stick out your time under your conditions. write a list of demands (X number of clients in a set period of the day) and leave it for your employer to terminate you if they do not agree to abide by it. That way your boss can prioritize whether they really need you or not. If they truly need you they will accommodate your schedule. If they let you go, you can rest easy knowing they weren't going to be that short staffed without you. I am also not sure why a receptionist / manager has the authority over you to set these unlivable standards.

Some people have given really great advice.  You will set the tone of how you are treated in your next job and this just may be the perfect time to practice flexing your "don't take no shit" muscles
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 04:48:24 PM

I think in good faith you should try to stick out your time under your conditions. write a list of demands (X number of clients in a set period of the day) and leave it for your employer to terminate you if they do not agree to abide by it. That way your boss can prioritize whether they really need you or not. If they truly need you they will accommodate your schedule. If they let you go, you can rest easy knowing they weren't going to be that short staffed without you. I am also not sure why a receptionist / manager has the authority over you to set these unlivable standards.

While I completely understand what you're saying in theory, I don't understand it logistically. I have zero control over the schedule - the receptionists schedule appointments based on what the office manager tells them. I told her we had too many Saturday appointments and that it was necessary to have the receptionists reschedule some, but she blatantly refused and told me I was being ridiculous.

So I've essentially already given her my requirements and she ignored them. There's no way for me to force the issue and get fired, unless I personally call to cancel appointments?

I really thought they'd fire me today but no such luck.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: 11ducks on April 20, 2018, 05:28:15 PM
She is ignoring them because you are letting her. There is no consequence to her for ignoring you because she believes you'll be too non confrontational to walk out/not see patients/too bound by ethics.

You can either call her on her bullshit or let her walk over you for the next month. It's awkward. I hate confrontation. But she is being a bully. If you tell her to book X patients, and she does y, those unseen patients (while unfortunate for them) are not your responsibility. They are not your fault.

Either you feel awful for the next month, or you feel awful during one last confrontation with her. Tell her to fix all of your days appts to a set maximum (as of tomorrow) or you walk out. No wiggle room. At least the second confrontation will be quicker? If she chooses not to do that, walk away with a clear conscience.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Phoenix_Fire on April 20, 2018, 05:46:56 PM
They have no reason to fire you.  They are short staffed and you are still doing the work. They don’t have the option to fire you either since they can’t easily replace you. You haven’t walked out on them yet, so they can schedule as many appointments as they want.  The only way they might do less is if you tell them you are walking out now and then they bargain with you to stay until your last day with only X amount of appointments that you agree to.

Since you’ve already given notice there is no reason other than you walking out now for them to accommodate you.

I’m not a lawyer, but based on what you have said about your contract, I would just walk. I wouldn’t even feel the need to consult a lawyer. The “should” piece basically tells you that they prefer it but not required. And at will works both ways I believe.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: TheWifeHalf on April 20, 2018, 06:20:33 PM
The clinic I go to schedules some appointments with a vet tech, the dr is never required.
For example, I had a dog last week that needed a Rabies shot. She has been seen by a vet in the last year, so law allows that the Rabies vacc can be given by a tech. This is Ohio. That could have been done in 10 minutes, some appointments can't.

Does this clinic/state allow that? I know it has cut down on wait times for my dogs.
I have a friend who is a vet, about 300 miles away but still Ohio, that said any meds she prescribes have to be for an animal that she has seen within the last year.

Sorry, I'm thinking of the clients. If the place is that busy, they need to make some changes, and spend the money required to do so.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 06:46:05 PM
The clinic I go to schedules some appointments with a vet tech, the dr is never required.
For example, I had a dog last week that needed a Rabies shot. She has been seen by a vet in the last year, so law allows that the Rabies vacc can be given by a tech. This is Ohio. That could have been done in 10 minutes, some appointments can't.

Does this clinic/state allow that? I know it has cut down on wait times for my dogs.
I have a friend who is a vet, about 300 miles away but still Ohio, that said any meds she prescribes have to be for an animal that she has seen within the last year.

Sorry, I'm thinking of the clients. If the place is that busy, they need to make some changes, and spend the money required to do so.

My state only allows rabies vaccines to be given by licensed/registered vet techs. My clinic doesn't employ any registered techs - all of ours are unlicensed vet assistants. Therefore, even 'just a rabies' has to be done by a doctor.

I've tried to change the workflow on those, having techs bring them back to treatment so the vet doesn't get ambushed in the room with tons of questions about other pets, requests for additional services "while I'm here," etc... but I've been met with a LOT of resistance on that and so we don't do it.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: I'm a red panda on April 20, 2018, 07:45:13 PM
You clearly work in a hostile environment. If they won't even bring a dog back for a 30 second shot, they have zero concern for your time and over time. You have to either leave or stop letting them walk all over you.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 20, 2018, 07:59:11 PM
You clearly work in a hostile environment. If they won't even bring a dog back for a 30 second shot, they have zero concern for your time and over time. You have to either leave or stop letting them walk all over you.

The resistance isn't from the techs... they actually like the idea, since it would help keep things moving more efficiently! The resistance comes from the manager, who feels that getting in the room with the doctor is what the clients expect. I'm sorry.... for $14, I don't really care what you expect. If you want face time with the doctor, you can pay for an exam. But I'm just unreasonable. Sigh.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Gizsuat2 on April 20, 2018, 10:16:44 PM
It sounds like you want to fulfill the terms of your contract (i.e., stay for 60 days) but you have decided that you cannot under the current conditions.

I think the other comments about leaving at the end of your shift, regardless of how many people and pets remain in the waiting room, is understandable but missing the point.  You don't want to leave people sitting out there waiting to be seen.  That's not going to do anything for your already suffering mental health.

It also seems that you told the manager there were too many patients scheduled, and that you took this as putting down your foot, which foot then went ignored.  I suspect, based on your wording, that you phrased this as a request.  I'd suggest you use this as an opportunity to recover some of the quality of mental health you've lost in this hole, and practice being assertive AND having a clear conscience, by telling the manager that (1) the situation is unhealthy for you and that (2) if she does not cancel X appointments to arrive at Y total appointments for your remaining shifts that (3) you will walk out.  Confrontation is hard, but in this sense you can dispense with the anger and frustration and just state it as fact.  If she wants to argue, you ignore this, because you owe her no explanations.

One caveat ... I agree with some of the others: See a lawyer before you do anything.



Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Playing with Fire UK on April 21, 2018, 12:52:07 AM
You are sick. Work is making you sick. Call in sick. Chest pain is not a normal thing.

Regardless of any norms, they can't make you work when it is making you sick.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: gerardc on April 21, 2018, 01:35:32 AM
I don't get it. You don't want to leave at the end of your scheduled shift because you "can't" leave unattended waiting patients... but you'd leave 1 month early and presumably cause even more cancelled appointments? (since you said they're short on staff)

Is it just because you don't want to see the pain you've caused, i.e. by not being there it's not your fault? Guess what, it's not your fault either way, so find a way to communicate available schedule based on estimated time to completion and stick to it. Talk with the assistant directly and fuck the manager.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 21, 2018, 04:50:59 AM
I don't get it. You don't want to leave at the end of your scheduled shift because you "can't" leave unattended waiting patients... but you'd leave 1 month early and presumably cause even more cancelled appointments? (since you said they're short on staff)

Is it just because you don't want to see the pain you've caused, i.e. by not being there it's not your fault? Guess what, it's not your fault either way, so find a way to communicate available schedule based on estimated time to completion and stick to it. Talk with the assistant directly and fuck the manager.

If I leave, they won't cancel any appointments... the other 2 doctors will just have to absorb the remaining load. I hate doing that to the other docs, but that's basically what is going to happen at the end of my notice anyway so it's just accelerating that change. They won't cancel appointments.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Shane on April 21, 2018, 05:27:12 AM
@startingsmall , Although you don't seem to realize it, you're in an enviable position of power in the situation you describe. The clinic NEEDS you. You don't need the clinic, as you've already got another job lined up. There's absolutely no reason you should feel guilty. at. all. about clearly spelling out to the management of the clinic exactly what you are and are not willing to do for the next month. Tell your manager, "I know you are short staffed, and I don't want to leave you and my co-workers even more short staffed, so I am willing to do X for the next month," and explain exactly the conditions under which you feel you would be able to continue working for another month. If your manager really needs your help, she will agree to your reasonable offer. If she laughs at your proposal or calls it "ridiculous," again, just say thank you, grab your stuff and walk out with a smile on your face.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: runbikerun on April 21, 2018, 06:02:11 AM
Call in sick. When your boss asks about it the next day you're in, explain that the thought of trying to see twice as many animals as would be reasonable made you so stressed out that you felt like you were having a heart scare. Advise her at the same time that in order to protect your own health, you will not be in for any shift in which you are rostered for more than a reasonable number of appointments. If she assigns even one more than is reasonable, call in sick. The health of the animals is not your responsibility until they are in with you; if the clinic is not properly set up to deal with the number of animals coming in without overloading staff, then that's the clinic manager's responsibility.

What this person thinks of you is no longer of concern to you. It doesn't matter what her opinion of you is: you are leaving, and your primary responsibility is to yourself. Set absolute boundaries, and demonstrate a willingness to walk away the moment those boundaries are crossed. If they're going to demand that you work two months' notice, then they have to accept that those two months will be done on your terms rather than theirs.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: undercover on April 21, 2018, 07:00:11 AM
I think what you came here for is the push to just go ahead and quit, so that's what I'm going to give you. I'm sure the only thing holding you back is the pointless feeling of "connection" and "commitment" you feel you owe these people you work with. Well, you don't. Two months is unreasonable. Think about it, it's completely their fault for not having enough staff members to more evenly distribute the workload. They just don't want to do that because it's more expensive. Boo-hoo.

You have presumably some FU money and you definitely have another job lined up. I would've walked yesterday. Your health isn't worth this bullshit. Don't bother calling in sick and skirting the issue*. That's just delaying the inevitable. If they were capable of making a better work environment then you wouldn't be leaving in the first place. You think there's something to lose by walking now but there isn't. Prove yourself wrong.

*Instead (if it will make you feel less guilty) - walk in, clearly dictate your conditions for fulfilling your notice and then gather a response. If the response is satisfactory, stay; if not, leave. Simple. Again, they need you. You do not need them.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 21, 2018, 08:44:45 AM
First of all, I want to send a huge THANK YOU to everyone for your replies on this. I know I haven't responded individually to everyone, but I've read each reply (multiple times!) and they have been a huge help. Many people seemed to pick up on the theme that I tend to be a bit submissive and subjective to bullies, and that's definitely true. I tend to take it and take it until I can't anymore... and then I sometimes hit my boiling point and it probably looks irrational. Definitely need to work on being more consistently assertive and less submissive. Looks like that will be my next self-improvement project!

Second, here I am at work, on the much-anticipated crappy day.... and I've had 5 appointments no-show. And only one walk-in. That NEVER happens. So now it's a completely easy day and I've been surfing the MMM forums for the last 20 minutes, making my little hissy fit look just as ridiculous as the manager said tha it was. Glad it's an easy day but really irritated that she's now vindicated.

Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Dicey on April 21, 2018, 09:15:10 AM
Fuck no, she's not vindicated. That's a larger force at work on your behalf. This could be the sign you need to get the hell out.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: living small on April 21, 2018, 03:53:40 PM
I have been in these situations before: office manager trying to trump the doctor.

The fact of the matter, and it has been pointed out here, is that if you are stressed and stretched too thin, you are putting yourself at risk for mental and physical health issues, as well as clinical misjudgments.

I have put myself out there before and have had to gently remind office managers that they are not the ones carrying the malpractice risk from an overcrowded schedule.  This sounds like an office manager with unchecked power. I have absolutely left these situations, with notice, but I think that you have indeed given notice and are now simply being abused by the power structure.

You are a professional. You worked too hard to get treated this way. Get out. Talk to a practice attorney if you must, I have one, they are awesome and can give you peace of mind.  This shit pisses me off and I am so sorry that you are going through it. I know that you do not want to feel like you are "abandoning" your patients or colleagues, but sometimes things need to get drastic before stuff changes for the better for everyone...patients included. Patients know when you are rushed and stressed.

good luck, I have totally been there. you got this.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: TheWifeHalf on April 21, 2018, 07:24:39 PM
You clearly work in a hostile environment. If they won't even bring a dog back for a 30 second shot, they have zero concern for your time and over time. You have to either leave or stop letting them walk all over you.

The resistance isn't from the techs... they actually like the idea, since it would help keep things moving more efficiently! The resistance comes from the manager, who feels that getting in the room with the doctor is what the clients expect. I'm sorry.... for $14, I don't really care what you expect. If you want face time with the doctor, you can pay for an exam. But I'm just unreasonable. Sigh.

I'm always told when I make the appointment that it will be with a tech, not the dr.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Tuskalusa on April 21, 2018, 11:59:52 PM
Sometimes, it’s ok to just go. I think this is one of those times.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: albireo13 on April 22, 2018, 05:59:16 AM
How about accelerating your leave.
Give the manager a 1 week notice.  You'd love to support the companies "suggestion" for giving 60 days notice but,
the work is now affecting your physical health and you can only put in 1 more week.

That cuts your month to 1 week ... much more manageable and you're not just walking out the door on them.

Besides, if you gave notice a month ago they should have been planning your replacement by now ... started hiring ads, whatever.



Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: MrUpwardlyMobile on April 22, 2018, 06:05:54 AM
How about accelerating your leave.
Give the manager a 1 week notice.  You'd love to support the companies "suggestion" for giving 60 days notice but,
the work is now affecting your physical health and you can only put in 1 more week.

That cuts your month to 1 week ... much more manageable and you're not just walking out the door on them.

Besides, if you gave notice a month ago they should have been planning your replacement by now ... started hiring ads, whatever.

Notice requirements are different for many professionals.  Additionally, by giving less than full notice, he or she might be foregoing certain benefits....
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: fuzzy math on April 22, 2018, 06:15:30 AM

I think in good faith you should try to stick out your time under your conditions. write a list of demands (X number of clients in a set period of the day) and leave it for your employer to terminate you if they do not agree to abide by it. That way your boss can prioritize whether they really need you or not. If they truly need you they will accommodate your schedule. If they let you go, you can rest easy knowing they weren't going to be that short staffed without you. I am also not sure why a receptionist / manager has the authority over you to set these unlivable standards.

While I completely understand what you're saying in theory, I don't understand it logistically. I have zero control over the schedule - the receptionists schedule appointments based on what the office manager tells them. I told her we had too many Saturday appointments and that it was necessary to have the receptionists reschedule some, but she blatantly refused and told me I was being ridiculous.

So I've essentially already given her my requirements and she ignored them. There's no way for me to force the issue and get fired, unless I personally call to cancel appointments?

I really thought they'd fire me today but no such luck.

A written note to the head Dr, office manager and owner of the clinic might help if these issues persist. The office manager shouldn't have unchecked power, amd the big boss may be unaware of what's going on. A written "I will only do this as of X date" note sets the stage for them to accept or not accept your terms. I had phrased it in a way to put the ball in their court so you could feel less guilty.

Glad you are having better days and I hope they continue.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Trifle on April 23, 2018, 06:18:36 AM
Just chiming in to say good luck, @startingsmall.  Bad situation, but I agree with the others that you are in a position of strength. 
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Gone Fishing on April 25, 2018, 03:31:01 PM
Any updates?
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: AZDude on April 25, 2018, 03:38:17 PM
Is there someone above the office manager you can talk to? Clearly she is the problem here.

Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: living small on April 25, 2018, 03:57:23 PM
Is there someone above the office manager you can talk to? Clearly she is the problem here.



+1 totes
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 25, 2018, 05:23:26 PM
I'm still hanging in there. The last few days have been more tolerable... but I'm sure that won't last. Taking it one day at a time and ready to walk when it strikes my fancy.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Eucalyptus on April 26, 2018, 12:57:14 AM
I just read through this thread and feel for you. I'm not a Vet, but, serve many people in a large organisation in a compliance type role. Its extremely stressful. The workload grows just about daily with more and more new people needing my services, doing more and more complex tasks with more complex compliance. I'm really good at my job, and dedicated to the organisation, but I've been requesting additional staff to work with me for a couple of years but the requests fall on deaf ears. I have massive stress issues. Chest pain coming up to 18months now (I'm super fit in my early 30s, no family history of cardiac issues). On strong medication, its not helping. GP and Mental Health types have been telling me to quit for over a year, there's nothing left they can do for me. Everyone tells me to quit. Family, friends, colleagues who know how I'm suffering from right around the organisation.


My contract is about to expire, the position was only just readvertised (they won't just give me a decent extension even though they can...) as three fractional part time positions, on short contracts!


I only have a few days left. I'm looking forward to it ending. Its going to leave a large number of people, good people, nice people, around the organisation in the lurch. Oh well. The new line manager is awful to work with and makes more work than they help with (they are basically just a sign off for payslips and leave for me. My role has legal accountabilities and responsibilities. The person "above" me, is also, below me when involved in these tasks). I'll be glad to never work under them again.


Thanks for sharing OP, and, I hope the run-down for you to get out of your current hell-hole and away from the awful calamity of trying to help people and animals and not let them down, while being messed around by your manager, is as pleasant as possible. Your mental health is important!
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: asiljoy on April 26, 2018, 06:43:10 AM
I work a lot in process creation/management/optimization/:: insert buzzword here, varies by org ::

Please don't use yourself as a band-aid. Yes, you're helping the individual in front of you, but someone like me isn't going to know that you're going above and beyond when I come in to do analysis and that's going to prevent a larger fix. Besides not being a sustainable solution, change happens when the problem hits the desk of the right person. And in most cases that means things need to get worse before they get better which SUCKS. 100%. If there's an artificial band-aid, a lot of the time what happens in that they just keep replacing the band-aid because that becomes the defacto problem to be solved. It doesn't get recognized as fixing the symptom and the underlying problem will still exist.

Using the OP's case as a very over simplified example because there's always nuance, you put use the office's comment that she just needs to 'have a better attitude' as the symptom they're trying to fix, whereas the underlying problem really is the office manager's scheduling program or the "sucks to be you" culture that they've created that allows one person to offload the shitty work (no one like's to tell anyone no) onto someone else (no one would be able to see that many patients in a reasonable time frame, creating more stress in an already stressful job).

In both your cases, that SUCKS. That super, duper, SUCKS. Walking away SUCKS. It puts a shitty feeling in your gut and it feels like you're eating a nice guilt sandwich. But you aren't going to fix the orgs on your own and sometimes the best way to help is by leaving! It sounds weird, but that's usually when orgs do the hard work of examining what's needed. Standing your ground, setting boundaries, and forcing others to feel the pain works too even though that FEELS shitty, that's when change happens.

I would like to differentiate too between helping now and then/doing a wee bit extra kind of thing vs stretching yourself thin where going above and beyond becomes the expectation. The second is what you need to avoid. The first is just not being an asshole. Totally easy to slip from the first category into the second and not have felt the shift. Be careful!
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 26, 2018, 08:31:33 AM
If there's an artificial band-aid, a lot of the time what happens in that they just keep replacing the band-aid because that becomes the defacto problem to be solved. It doesn't get recognized as fixing the symptom and the underlying problem will still exist.

Using the OP's case as a very over simplified example because there's always nuance, you put use the office's comment that she just needs to 'have a better attitude' as the symptom they're trying to fix, whereas the underlying problem really is the office manager's scheduling program or the "sucks to be you" culture that they've created that allows one person to offload the shitty work (no one like's to tell anyone no) onto someone else (no one would be able to see that many patients in a reasonable time frame, creating more stress in an already stressful job).


That is such a great point. This clinic goes through associate doctors relatively frequently, and they've convinced themselves that the problem is just that "younger docs" are lazy. (Head DVM is in his mid-60s, I'm 40.) They don't recognize that the hospital culture/systems are the problem.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Tuskalusa on April 26, 2018, 09:31:56 AM
It really just sounds like a horrible place to work. I think it’s tome to go. How close are you to your commitment on your notice?  Can you say it’s “close enough” and bail?
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: bugbaby on April 26, 2018, 02:03:13 PM
You need to walk away.

The reason that comment reminded you of your abusive ex, is because it's abusive as hell. It's gaslighting and victim blaming. Your boundaries are being violated with impunity. That's abuse.




Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: jim555 on April 27, 2018, 08:09:44 AM
You can't sell yourself into slavery, just walk with no notice.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: startingsmall on April 30, 2018, 10:51:06 AM
So, I'm still here. My goal was to stay at least until May 1st, so that my May health insurance would most likely be covered. (Since I know that's usually the case.)

Today, we came into work to find a note on the dry erase board, starting with "FYI - " and listing a change in the hours we open each day. Stinks for the hourly employees, since they'll have to rearrange their kid drop-off schedules to get there half an hour earlier each day, but at least they'll get paid. The other associate doc has now had her work schedule increased by 2-2.5 hrs/wk with no pay increase.

Fortunately, this change doesn't happen until after I leave. But I'm still pissed on behalf of my coworkers.
Title: Re: Don't know if I can stay until the end of my notice.
Post by: Dicey on April 30, 2018, 11:45:31 AM
So, I'm still here. My goal was to stay at least until May 1st, so that my May health insurance would most likely be covered. (Since I know that's usually the case.)

Today, we came into work to find a note on the dry erase board, starting with "FYI - " and listing a change in the hours we open each day. Stinks for the hourly employees, since they'll have to rearrange their kid drop-off schedules to get there half an hour earlier each day, but at least they'll get paid. The other associate doc has now had her work schedule increased by 2-2.5 hrs/wk with no pay increase.

Fortunately, this change doesn't happen until after I leave. But I'm still pissed on behalf of my coworkers.
I would be too, but thank heavens you're just about out of there! You did it. You put your own air mask on first. Fly, startingsmall, fly!