Author Topic: Does it ever seem useless?  (Read 19527 times)

Supertaster

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Does it ever seem useless?
« on: September 07, 2015, 02:48:42 PM »
I've been more or less lurking here for a couple of years now and I've got most of the things I can control in order. My debts are cleaned up. My job pays relatively well. Everything has been budgeted. My investments are maximized and reasonably allocated. According to my endless calculations I should be ready to retire in ten years or so. But sometimes I don't even see the point.

I'm alone. I'm miserable. Work has slowed down and isn't quite the welcome distraction it once was. And there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to change or improve anything else. I don't really know if I can make it for another ten years with this mindset.

KMMK

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 02:57:06 PM »
That's why I quit. I was half-FI with 10-13 years left and I decided to escape everything. This is my journal here: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/my-semi-retired-random-life/

Kaikou

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 02:57:48 PM »
so what are you doing to fulfill other side of your life?

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 03:02:31 PM »
I have no qualifications... and judging someone from 2 paragraphs written on the interwebs is no way to judge anything... but... It really sounds like you're depressed.

I might suggest seeing a shrink and/or trying to force yourself into some physical activity.


Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 03:16:27 PM »
so what are you doing to fulfill other side of your life?

I've been doing pretty well at keeping myself engaged over the last couple of years. I workout five days a week and try to hike somewhere every weekend. And I'm always reading about places I would like to go and things I would like to see. If a band I would like to see comes within a hundred miles or so, I'll force myself to go. I'll also try to force myself out to bars a couple of nights a week to try and meet some new people and work on my miserable social skills. But those things just don't seem worth it anymore. I've hiked pretty much every trail within a reasonable drive several times, and now all I can think about is the fact that I have nobody to share them with.

KMMK

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 03:34:24 PM »
so what are you doing to fulfill other side of your life?

I've been doing pretty well at keeping myself engaged over the last couple of years. I workout five days a week and try to hike somewhere every weekend. And I'm always reading about places I would like to go and things I would like to see. If a band I would like to see comes within a hundred miles or so, I'll force myself to go. I'll also try to force myself out to bars a couple of nights a week to try and meet some new people and work on my miserable social skills. But those things just don't seem worth it anymore. I've hiked pretty much every trail within a reasonable drive several times, and now all I can think about is the fact that I have nobody to share them with.

So you want an SO and/or more friends - are you going to places other than bars? which are generally a less than ideal way to meet people.
All the usual stuff: hobby groups, Meet-up.com, classes, volunteer groups, online dating, MMM forum singles area. I'd do (and I actually do) all those things rather than bars.

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 03:37:07 PM »
meeting people in bars and the odds of that person becoming more than a guy you met in a bar is hard.  Have you tried online dating?  I never thought I'd do it, my friends pushed me into it after divorce and I had a lot of fun, met some interesting men and some really strange rangers. Made two really good male friends, that was one of the best parts.  I ended up in a 7 yr relationship when I was ready to get back up on that horse again.  To me, it worked best if you keep it easy, breezy, don't drag out the emails with personal info because it feels like you are on the same wavelength. When you finally meet and there's no connection, you've wasted time and told parts of your life to someone you will never see again.  A few emails, someone suggest a coffee date or drinks, meet and then see if you really connect. 

Can't recommend a service, all I know is Grinder is for gay people, Tinder has "naughty dating" in their ad, and lest you have the morals of Josh Dugger, Ashley Madison is for affairs, lol.

It can't hurt, right? You sound like you've had enough of being alone.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 03:58:47 PM »
meeting people in bars and the odds of that person becoming more than a guy you met in a bar is hard.  Have you tried online dating?  I never thought I'd do it, my friends pushed me into it after divorce and I had a lot of fun, met some interesting men and some really strange rangers. Made two really good male friends, that was one of the best parts.  I ended up in a 7 yr relationship when I was ready to get back up on that horse again.  To me, it worked best if you keep it easy, breezy, don't drag out the emails with personal info because it feels like you are on the same wavelength. When you finally meet and there's no connection, you've wasted time and told parts of your life to someone you will never see again.  A few emails, someone suggest a coffee date or drinks, meet and then see if you really connect. 

Can't recommend a service, all I know is Grinder is for gay people, Tinder has "naughty dating" in their ad, and lest you have the morals of Josh Dugger, Ashley Madison is for affairs, lol.

It can't hurt, right? You sound like you've had enough of being alone.

I've tried several online things over the last few years (OkCupid, Plenty of Fish, Tinder, etc). Lots of messages sent, lots of overhauled profiles, zero dates. I figure I'm just a special kind of awful.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 04:04:15 PM »
so what are you doing to fulfill other side of your life?

I've been doing pretty well at keeping myself engaged over the last couple of years. I workout five days a week and try to hike somewhere every weekend. And I'm always reading about places I would like to go and things I would like to see. If a band I would like to see comes within a hundred miles or so, I'll force myself to go. I'll also try to force myself out to bars a couple of nights a week to try and meet some new people and work on my miserable social skills. But those things just don't seem worth it anymore. I've hiked pretty much every trail within a reasonable drive several times, and now all I can think about is the fact that I have nobody to share them with.

So you want an SO and/or more friends - are you going to places other than bars? which are generally a less than ideal way to meet people.
All the usual stuff: hobby groups, Meet-up.com, classes, volunteer groups, online dating, MMM forum singles area. I'd do (and I actually do) all those things rather than bars.

I checked Meetup.com for some groups in the area a few years ago and didn't find much. But I just checked and it looks like things have grown since then. So I'll scan through there and see if I can find anything. I still worry about weirding people out in those kind of contexts.

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 04:20:12 PM »
Think about what you plan to do when you RE.  Find a way to try those things out in a small way now.  For example,  we are currently test driving Music (me) and Russian (the SO). 

I do my test driving by accepting a gift of a used electric piano from a relative and taking piano lessons at community college.  Found a stereo at a yard sale, joined AudioKarma.com., slowly making my system better with what I have learned and trips to Goodwill.  Buy $0.50 CDs whenever I see them. Have refoamed a set of speakers.  Currently have, but have not opened "Learn to Solder" kit from Amazon.

The SO test drives by keeping Russian for Dummies (bought at a used book store) beside the toilet and downloading the Simpsons dubbed in Russian for free from a Russian TV station, also uses a couple of "Free but you will need to pay for higher levels" tutorial sites.   Also buys any books in Russian that show up for $3.00 or less at the used book store.  Has matched several classics to the English version to parallel read.

So you will notice all this test driving of hobbies takes place on the cheap and we will be doing them cheaply in the future too.  That's why we picked those hobbies instead of parasailing and golf.

Bajadoc

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2015, 04:23:13 PM »
Realize how profound it is just being alive and breathing. If you pretend to be grateful and happy you will actually start to be grateful and happy. People will sense your well being and be drawn to you.

mozar

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2015, 04:28:10 PM »
Online dating is tough to figure out. The two books that helped me were "Love Factually", and "Data, a love story." But no one wants to hang out with a miserable person. So you have to deal with that first. And face it, there are weird people out there. You're probably one of them. You have to wade through the weirdos to get to the people you are looking for. But for many, it's a lifelong journey.

But I do have thoughts, like what's the point. I decided there is no point. Life is what you make it.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2015, 04:35:42 PM »
But no one wants to hang out with a miserable person. So you have to deal with that first.

But that's kind of a catch 22. The loneliness is what makes me miserable. Everything else in life is easy, so I don't really take much pride in any of it.

tj

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2015, 04:41:07 PM »
But no one wants to hang out with a miserable person. So you have to deal with that first.

But that's kind of a catch 22. The loneliness is what makes me miserable. Everything else in life is easy, so I don't really take much pride in any of it.

You will need to figure out how to make yourself happy before someone else can make you happy.  It's totally normal to feel lonely, just don't be a downer when you're dating...dating's a crapshoot anyway. I've had 3 hour conversations with people and then I don't hear from them again. It's a very strange phenomenon.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2015, 04:47:34 PM »
But no one wants to hang out with a miserable person. So you have to deal with that first.

But that's kind of a catch 22. The loneliness is what makes me miserable. Everything else in life is easy, so I don't really take much pride in any of it.
You will need to figure out how to make yourself happy before someone else can make you happy.

I find it hard to believe that all those people out their with their significant other and large circles of friends would be just as happy and content with their life if all of those people weren't there. I need people in my life to be happy, so do they, I'm just the person who hasn't had it. So I'm labeled miserable.

Bucksandreds

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2015, 04:47:56 PM »
This will sound crazy to some but ever looked into an international connections thing?  You want someone to share your life with but are having trouble and plenty of people from not so nice countries want someone to share their life with, in the U.S.  I would have gone that way years ago and never thought twice if I was having years of trouble finding someone to share my life with.  If you do it then spend months getting to know the person online and in person visits before you get engaged just like people spend a long time getting to know someone who they date in the same town.

Tyson

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2015, 04:48:48 PM »
For many people, work/career provides a lot of meaning and structure.  MMM and FIRE tend to strip that away.  Perhaps that is what you are dealing with?  And if so, maybe you don't have to.  For me I don't want to RE, I like what I do and I like the sense of identity I get from it.  I embrace MMM for the FI part of it, not the RE portion.

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2015, 04:52:49 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but have you thought about relocating? I see from your profile that you're in KY, and while Lexington may be a big city, it may just not be YOUR city. Is your job/are your skills transferable to a new place? Could you take a sabbatical and travel for a while--or go work overseas and get in with an expat community?

It sounds like YOU might need a change of scenery. Being outside your comfort zone (geographically speaking) may help your situation.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2015, 04:56:19 PM »
For many people, work/career provides a lot of meaning and structure.  MMM and FIRE tend to strip that away.  Perhaps that is what you are dealing with?  And if so, maybe you don't have to.  For me I don't want to RE, I like what I do and I like the sense of identity I get from it.  I embrace MMM for the FI part of it, not the RE portion.

I'm all about the ER part of it. I kind of feel trapped where I am right now. Stuck in the same state I've always been in and where I've been struggling with depression for nearly 20 years. At least with ER I would always have new places to see.

pbkmaine

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2015, 05:00:32 PM »
Supertaster, please go meet PMG at the farmer's market. It would be nice for you to know another Mustachian in your area.

KMMK

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2015, 05:01:51 PM »
Meeting people/doing social things takes a lot of effort. Lots of putting yourself out there, looking for things to do, finding ways to meet random people, tons of rejection/people ignoring social requests, asking others to do specific things. It's hard, definitely. I agree about the finding ways to be happy without others. I'm generally pretty content with my life, but am also struggling most of the time to get enough socializing.

I find having a few subjects you are enthusiastic about helps - other people like enthusiasm. And if you can figure out what another person is enthusiastic about and get them talking about that, it helps with conversation.

So far you've expressed several negative opinions of yourself - that's really not going to help. There are ways that you are awesome - just figure those out and focus on your strengths. Learning new things/challenging yourself to improve will also help your outlook.

JRA64

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2015, 05:02:55 PM »
A few suggestions:

1. Do something to get out of yourself and be of service to someone else. Volunteer. Call someone and ask how THEY are doing, then listen. Try to find that topic that, when they talk about it, their eyes light up. That's what gives me a feeling of connection to someone else. Adopt or foster a pet ( fostering is great - everything is paid for and it is a short-term commitment).

About once a week, I'm at my mom's retirement home. I talk to the other residents there, I do my best to learn and remember people's names, engage them in conversation even if it is just, How are you? Listen. And people notice. They smile at me, try to catch my eye when I'm walking through, sometimes tell me something going on in their lives. I've met some very inspiring people in 'old folks homes'. Those simple interactions turn what I'd always thought could be an depressing place into an uplifting experience.

2. Practice gratitude. Every night as you go to bed, think of a certain number of things, unique to that day, that you are grateful for. It shifts the focus away from what didn't go well, to the good things we often easily overlook. Start with three and work up to 10.

3. This idea that we have to be part of a couple to be happy causes more misery than anything else out there. The most liberating thing I ever did was give up dating for two years, about the same time I wasn't feeling well so I couldn't participate in the sports that were the basis of my social life. I learned a lot about what I like to do, how to be happy on my own. make my own plans and be at peace with being single. I started the experiment five or six years ago, and I'm still single. Build COMMUNITY instead of seeking that one relationsihp.

4. Make a phone call and go get screened for depression. When you are saying you don't know if you can make it another ten years, or if it is worth it, that's what I hear.
-special kind of awful, weirding people out - what's up with those comments? Counseling can help you identify if there are specific things you do that make others uncomfortable, and learn other behaviors.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2015, 05:03:18 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but have you thought about relocating? I see from your profile that you're in KY, and while Lexington may be a big city, it may just not be YOUR city. Is your job/are your skills transferable to a new place? Could you take a sabbatical and travel for a while--or go work overseas and get in with an expat community?

It sounds like YOU might need a change of scenery. Being outside your comfort zone (geographically speaking) may help your situation.

I've thought about it, but I don't have any confidence in being able to find a job that would pay what my current one pays. I guess I'm still dealing with a bit of Impostor Syndrome with respect to that.

A few weeks ago it looked like my job was going to force me to relocate to the Dallas area and I was pretty pumped about it, but that fell through due to literally everyone else having no interest in moving.

Oh well.

2ndTimer

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2015, 05:07:11 PM »
For many people, work/career provides a lot of meaning and structure.  MMM and FIRE tend to strip that away.  Perhaps that is what you are dealing with?  And if so, maybe you don't have to.  For me I don't want to RE, I like what I do and I like the sense of identity I get from it.  I embrace MMM for the FI part of it, not the RE portion.

I'm all about the ER part of it. I kind of feel trapped where I am right now. Stuck in the same state I've always been in and where I've been struggling with depression for nearly 20 years. At least with ER I would always have new places to see.

Go and see whoever is providing your care on this.  Sounds like something isn't right.  If you live in a place where you don't get enough light, look into buying one.  This really helped me.  Of course, I live in the PNW  where around 30% of the population has them so it was easy to get.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2015, 05:18:34 PM »
A few suggestions:

1. Do something to get out of yourself and be of service to someone else. Volunteer. Call someone and ask how THEY are doing, then listen. Try to find that topic that, when they talk about it, their eyes light up. That's what gives me a feeling of connection to someone else. Adopt or foster a pet ( fostering is great - everything is paid for and it is a short-term commitment).

About once a week, I'm at my mom's retirement home. I talk to the other residents there, I do my best to learn and remember people's names, engage them in conversation even if it is just, How are you? Listen. And people notice. They smile at me, try to catch my eye when I'm walking through, sometimes tell me something going on in their lives. I've met some very inspiring people in 'old folks homes'. Those simple interactions turn what I'd always thought could be an depressing place into an uplifting experience.

2. Practice gratitude. Every night as you go to bed, think of a certain number of things, unique to that day, that you are grateful for. It shifts the focus away from what didn't go well, to the good things we often easily overlook. Start with three and work up to 10.

3. This idea that we have to be part of a couple to be happy causes more misery than anything else out there. The most liberating thing I ever did was give up dating for two years, about the same time I wasn't feeling well so I couldn't participate in the sports that were the basis of my social life. I learned a lot about what I like to do, how to be happy on my own. make my own plans and be at peace with being single. I started the experiment five or six years ago, and I'm still single. Build COMMUNITY instead of seeking that one relationsihp.

4. Make a phone call and go get screened for depression. When you are saying you don't know if you can make it another ten years, or if it is worth it, that's what I hear.
-special kind of awful, weirding people out - what's up with those comments? Counseling can help you identify if there are specific things you do that make others uncomfortable, and learn other behaviors.

Thanks for the thorough response.

I've wanted to get a dog for a while, but I have a tiny apartment and wouldn't be at home and awake for more than three hours a day during the week. That's never seemed fair to me with respect to the dog's needs.

The idea of volunteering has been mentioned to me before but it terrifies me. The possibility of going to do something where people are depending on me to help and then screwing up makes me feel awful.

I doubt I need to be screened. Back when I used to see counselors they started referring to my depression as Dysthymic Personality Disorder. Which I figure just means "you've been sad to long, this is just who you are". I just don't have a lot of faith in the mental heath institutions around here. Red River Gorge helped me a lot more.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2015, 05:27:45 PM »
Meeting people/doing social things takes a lot of effort. Lots of putting yourself out there, looking for things to do, finding ways to meet random people, tons of rejection/people ignoring social requests, asking others to do specific things. It's hard, definitely. I agree about the finding ways to be happy without others. I'm generally pretty content with my life, but am also struggling most of the time to get enough socializing.

I find having a few subjects you are enthusiastic about helps - other people like enthusiasm. And if you can figure out what another person is enthusiastic about and get them talking about that, it helps with conversation.

So far you've expressed several negative opinions of yourself - that's really not going to help. There are ways that you are awesome - just figure those out and focus on your strengths. Learning new things/challenging yourself to improve will also help your outlook.

I have things I'm enthusiastic about, those things just don't line up with other peoples'. I could talk about how great the new Wolf Alice album is for a solid hour, but finding someone who knows what I'm talking about is difficult.

My negative options rarely come out in social situations. I used to be terrible about it until I met a few people who had the same issue and realized how crazy it drove me. As of right now I'm almost exclusively trying to say things that are funny, which I understand comes with it's own set of issues.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2015, 05:40:39 PM »
I just moved to Lexington a week ago.  I want to explore the whole city and surrounding areas.  I'm not sure how much free time I'll actually have.  I will be focusing on school and work and I tend to get involved in community stuff.

That getting involved with community stuff tends to be what makes my life fulfilling.

It takes a lot more guts to be happy alone than it does to be surrounded by people. 

(or something)

I went out to the farmers market on Saturday and noticed that I was the only person there alone.  Odd feeling. I'm used to being in a small community where I know everyone, so even going to a farmers market I would know several people and bump into some friends.  Not so here.  I do know that personally  I need that alone time in order to enjoy time with people.

Do you go to the farmers market?  We should bump into each other there.

I've never been. As one of the few people on this site that's still clinging to his car, I've almost always avoided downtown. I could give it a try, but I might be an anxious wreck by the time I get there.

Dee18

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2015, 05:45:13 PM »
Both your original post and your comments to replies convey a real sense of hopelessness that can come from depression.  Lexington is a major medical center and you should indeed take advantage of it.  Therapy, medication, or a combination could be very helpful.  Also, if Dallas appealed to you, go ahead and look for jobs there.  You won't know what a job will pay if you don't look.  And Dallas seems to have a lot of singles.  My sister moved from Ky to Dallas for a job, met her husband there and has loved being in a city with so much energy.

tj

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2015, 05:49:08 PM »
But no one wants to hang out with a miserable person. So you have to deal with that first.

But that's kind of a catch 22. The loneliness is what makes me miserable. Everything else in life is easy, so I don't really take much pride in any of it.
You will need to figure out how to make yourself happy before someone else can make you happy.

I find it hard to believe that all those people out their with their significant other and large circles of friends would be just as happy and content with their life if all of those people weren't there. I need people in my life to be happy, so do they, I'm just the person who hasn't had it. So I'm labeled miserable.

Chicken or the egg? Do they have a significant other and large circle of friends because they are happy and content or are they happy and content because they have those things?

I personally don't need a lot of people and that makes dating a little difficult for me because most of the women I meet want a bigger social circle.

JRA64

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2015, 05:52:59 PM »
A few suggestions:

1. Do something to get out of yourself and be of service to someone else. Volunteer. Call someone and ask how THEY are doing, then listen. Try to find that topic that, when they talk about it, their eyes light up. That's what gives me a feeling of connection to someone else. Adopt or foster a pet ( fostering is great - everything is paid for and it is a short-term commitment).

About once a week, I'm at my mom's retirement home. I talk to the other residents there, I do my best to learn and remember people's names, engage them in conversation even if it is just, How are you? Listen. And people notice. They smile at me, try to catch my eye when I'm walking through, sometimes tell me something going on in their lives. I've met some very inspiring people in 'old folks homes'. Those simple interactions turn what I'd always thought could be an depressing place into an uplifting experience.

2. Practice gratitude. Every night as you go to bed, think of a certain number of things, unique to that day, that you are grateful for. It shifts the focus away from what didn't go well, to the good things we often easily overlook. Start with three and work up to 10.

3. This idea that we have to be part of a couple to be happy causes more misery than anything else out there. The most liberating thing I ever did was give up dating for two years, about the same time I wasn't feeling well so I couldn't participate in the sports that were the basis of my social life. I learned a lot about what I like to do, how to be happy on my own. make my own plans and be at peace with being single. I started the experiment five or six years ago, and I'm still single. Build COMMUNITY instead of seeking that one relationsihp.

4. Make a phone call and go get screened for depression. When you are saying you don't know if you can make it another ten years, or if it is worth it, that's what I hear.
-special kind of awful, weirding people out - what's up with those comments? Counseling can help you identify if there are specific things you do that make others uncomfortable, and learn other behaviors.

Thanks for the thorough response.

I've wanted to get a dog for a while, but I have a tiny apartment and wouldn't be at home and awake for more than three hours a day during the week. That's never seemed fair to me with respect to the dog's needs.

The idea of volunteering has been mentioned to me before but it terrifies me. The possibility of going to do something where people are depending on me to help and then screwing up makes me feel awful.

I doubt I need to be screened. Back when I used to see counselors they started referring to my depression as Dysthymic Personality Disorder. Which I figure just means "you've been sad to long, this is just who you are". I just don't have a lot of faith in the mental heath institutions around here. Red River Gorge helped me a lot more.

Frankly, terrified sounds like a step in the right direction. Taking some actions steps and facing your fears gets you out of the victim role you're in now. Mistakes are a part of life - he who never makes a mistake never makes much of anything.

Here's a challenge. You've gotten yourself out of debt and taken some steps to FI. You're on the "Ask a Mustachian" page. Go find someone who's asked a question that you have some experience with, and post an answer to help someone else. Report back.

Adopt a cat instead of a dog. Or sign up to walk dogs at the local shelter. My local shelter has a program specifically where people take certain dogs on the hiking trails.

FLA

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2015, 06:09:45 PM »


The SO test drives by keeping Russian for Dummies (bought at a used book store) beside the toilet and downloading the Simpsons dubbed in Russian for free from a Russian TV station,
 

this made me laugh about the Simpsons but good for her learning Russian on her own!     

midweststache

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2015, 06:17:05 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but have you thought about relocating? I see from your profile that you're in KY, and while Lexington may be a big city, it may just not be YOUR city. Is your job/are your skills transferable to a new place? Could you take a sabbatical and travel for a while--or go work overseas and get in with an expat community?

It sounds like YOU might need a change of scenery. Being outside your comfort zone (geographically speaking) may help your situation.

I've thought about it, but I don't have any confidence in being able to find a job that would pay what my current one pays. I guess I'm still dealing with a bit of Impostor Syndrome with respect to that.

A few weeks ago it looked like my job was going to force me to relocate to the Dallas area and I was pretty pumped about it, but that fell through due to literally everyone else having no interest in moving.

Oh well.

Apply for jobs. The worst that could happen is you get zero bites. The best that happens if you find someplace new that you love (or you find a job, and decide it's best for you financially/socially to stay in Lexington).

We ALL have some bit of imposter syndrome. You have to perform like you don't have it--whether that's in a meeting, in an interview, or in a job application.

You might also consider seeing an analyst. Not necessarily a therapist (unless you think you might be suffering from depression, which other posters have offered and may be relevant). Analysis is an ongoing process--it's not about "fixing" you but rather about understanding yourself better by way of conversations with a professional.

Self-care, from a social and psychological standpoint, is just as important--more so, even--than having your financial ducks in a row. Best of luck, Supertaster!

FLA

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2015, 06:27:03 PM »
  I figure I'm just a special kind of awful.

this statement makes me wonder if you could possibly be depressed combined with some other things you said. I'm no expert, so feel free to tell my to MYOB. Of course you are not any kind of awful. Do you go around kicking puppies, abusing children and stealing from old people? Nothing you have said would make me think you are awful.  This has helped me sometimes- look at yourself not as you, but your best friend. Would you ever, ever tell her she is awful? I'm sure you wouldn't, so try to treat yourself the way you would a friend.

When everything you love cannot give you pleasure anymore, you put yourself down a lot, maybe it's time to visit a therapist.  You sound like you have a fairly full life, you just get no joy from it. Hugs.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2015, 06:27:22 PM »
A few suggestions:

1. Do something to get out of yourself and be of service to someone else. Volunteer. Call someone and ask how THEY are doing, then listen. Try to find that topic that, when they talk about it, their eyes light up. That's what gives me a feeling of connection to someone else. Adopt or foster a pet ( fostering is great - everything is paid for and it is a short-term commitment).

About once a week, I'm at my mom's retirement home. I talk to the other residents there, I do my best to learn and remember people's names, engage them in conversation even if it is just, How are you? Listen. And people notice. They smile at me, try to catch my eye when I'm walking through, sometimes tell me something going on in their lives. I've met some very inspiring people in 'old folks homes'. Those simple interactions turn what I'd always thought could be an depressing place into an uplifting experience.

2. Practice gratitude. Every night as you go to bed, think of a certain number of things, unique to that day, that you are grateful for. It shifts the focus away from what didn't go well, to the good things we often easily overlook. Start with three and work up to 10.

3. This idea that we have to be part of a couple to be happy causes more misery than anything else out there. The most liberating thing I ever did was give up dating for two years, about the same time I wasn't feeling well so I couldn't participate in the sports that were the basis of my social life. I learned a lot about what I like to do, how to be happy on my own. make my own plans and be at peace with being single. I started the experiment five or six years ago, and I'm still single. Build COMMUNITY instead of seeking that one relationsihp.

4. Make a phone call and go get screened for depression. When you are saying you don't know if you can make it another ten years, or if it is worth it, that's what I hear.
-special kind of awful, weirding people out - what's up with those comments? Counseling can help you identify if there are specific things you do that make others uncomfortable, and learn other behaviors.

Thanks for the thorough response.

I've wanted to get a dog for a while, but I have a tiny apartment and wouldn't be at home and awake for more than three hours a day during the week. That's never seemed fair to me with respect to the dog's needs.

The idea of volunteering has been mentioned to me before but it terrifies me. The possibility of going to do something where people are depending on me to help and then screwing up makes me feel awful.

I doubt I need to be screened. Back when I used to see counselors they started referring to my depression as Dysthymic Personality Disorder. Which I figure just means "you've been sad to long, this is just who you are". I just don't have a lot of faith in the mental heath institutions around here. Red River Gorge helped me a lot more.

Frankly, terrified sounds like a step in the right direction. Taking some actions steps and facing your fears gets you out of the victim role you're in now. Mistakes are a part of life - he who never makes a mistake never makes much of anything.

Here's a challenge. You've gotten yourself out of debt and taken some steps to FI. You're on the "Ask a Mustachian" page. Go find someone who's asked a question that you have some experience with, and post an answer to help someone else. Report back.

Adopt a cat instead of a dog. Or sign up to walk dogs at the local shelter. My local shelter has a program specifically where people take certain dogs on the hiking trails.

I don't think it's really a victim mindset. I 100% that I am the person screwing up. Nobody is forced to like or associate with me just because it would make me feel better. It is my responsibility to improve myself and become the kind of person that deserves other people in his life.

The only failure there is that after I dedicate some time to something and feel like I'm a better person, or more interesting, or more fun, or more capable of interacting with others, I go out any everything is the same. I'm still not the kind of person who has other people in his life. And I worry that it doesn't matter what I do. I could be spectacular on paper, but maybe there's always going to be something deep down about me that make me awful and can't be changed.

And that's why I'm on a website learning how to throw a lot of money into a pile. To have something to look forward to.

wordnerd

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2015, 06:41:06 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but have you thought about relocating? I see from your profile that you're in KY, and while Lexington may be a big city, it may just not be YOUR city. Is your job/are your skills transferable to a new place? Could you take a sabbatical and travel for a while--or go work overseas and get in with an expat community?

It sounds like YOU might need a change of scenery. Being outside your comfort zone (geographically speaking) may help your situation.

I've thought about it, but I don't have any confidence in being able to find a job that would pay what my current one pays. I guess I'm still dealing with a bit of Impostor Syndrome with respect to that.

A few weeks ago it looked like my job was going to force me to relocate to the Dallas area and I was pretty pumped about it, but that fell through due to literally everyone else having no interest in moving.

Oh well.

Start applying! See what happens. You seem to be shutting down every potential change without trying it.

I agree that you might be depressed. Consider finding a counselor. Even if you're not depressed, they may be able to help you work through this rut, work on your impostor syndrome/self-esteem, and find something that brings you joy.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2015, 06:52:07 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but have you thought about relocating? I see from your profile that you're in KY, and while Lexington may be a big city, it may just not be YOUR city. Is your job/are your skills transferable to a new place? Could you take a sabbatical and travel for a while--or go work overseas and get in with an expat community?

It sounds like YOU might need a change of scenery. Being outside your comfort zone (geographically speaking) may help your situation.

I've thought about it, but I don't have any confidence in being able to find a job that would pay what my current one pays. I guess I'm still dealing with a bit of Impostor Syndrome with respect to that.

A few weeks ago it looked like my job was going to force me to relocate to the Dallas area and I was pretty pumped about it, but that fell through due to literally everyone else having no interest in moving.

Oh well.

Start applying! See what happens. You seem to be shutting down every potential change without trying it.

I agree that you might be depressed. Consider finding a counselor. Even if you're not depressed, they may be able to help you work through this rut, work on your impostor syndrome/self-esteem, and find something that brings you joy.

Potential changes are risks. Putting my salary at risk when it's offering me the only flicker of light at the end of the tunnel doesn't sound reasonable.

I'm definitely depressed, I just don't have any faith in counselors, or therapists, or any other time/money sinks.

pbkmaine

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2015, 06:52:16 PM »
 Supertaster, if you don't want to meet PMG at the farmer's market, why don't you suggest an alternative location?

FLA

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2015, 07:03:25 PM »
A few suggestions:

1. Do something to get out of yourself and be of service to someone else.   Adopt or foster a pet

2. Practice gratitude. 

3. This idea that we have to be part of a couple to be happy causes more misery than anything else out there.  .

4. Make a phone call and go get screened for depression. 

Thanks for the thorough response.

I've wanted to get a dog for a while, but I have a tiny apartment and wouldn't be at home and awake for more than three hours a day during the week. That's never seemed fair to me with respect to the dog's needs.

I doubt I need to be screened. Back when I used to see counselors they started referring to my depression as Dysthymic Personality Disorder. Which I figure just means "you've been sad to long, this is just who you are". I just don't have a lot of faith in the mental heath institutions around here. Red River Gorge helped me a lot more.

I would try the above, personally, I'd start with getting a dog. Dogs ease the blues, get you out of the house, going to the dog park where you do meet other people. I talked to my vet about how I was not home during the hours of work for my two dogs. She said if I hooked up a video feed, I'd realize dogs sleep 20 hours a day.  And not saving a shelter dog because of the not being home fear, I think we can all agree that a dog who will eventually be euthanized would be thrilled to live with you instead.  Maybe get one that's not a puppy, though, you don't need that much stress.

Agree on 2 and 3.  Writing down even just one thing that was not horrible that day, is a start.  As for being coupled, IDK how old you are, but sometimes it feels good to be uncoupled for a while.  After my divorce I felt that way, after the end of a 7yr relationship, I've felt that way since.  At first, it was just kind of nice not to be working on a relationship. Then I became pretty sick and the very last thing I care about is meeting somebody.  Maybe work on making you happy and acknowledge that it is perfectly ok to be single for a while.  When you feel better and are happy, you will project that and it will draw someone in.

Somehow I missed the part that you have been told you have dsythymia.  This does not mean nothing gets done about it for years and it is not regularly assessed to see where you are with it. 

"The two main treatments for dysthymia are medications and talk therapy (psychotherapy). Medications appear to be more effective at treating dysthymia than psychotherapy when either is used alone. Using a combination of medications and psychotherapy may be slightly more effective."  ~ Mayo Clinic

Does this sound like you? 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/dysthymia/basics/symptoms/con-20033879

From what you've said, it probably does.  Untreated 20 yr dysthymia, once it's lasted that long, you need to see someone regularly to talk and consider meds.  You do not have to just live with it, if that's what you've been told.  Can your primary get you into someone good? And sometimes the therapist or shrink is not a good fit, move on,  you will find someone that clicks before you make it through the list of therapists your insurance covers.  It is so hard, but do you want another decade like this? 

if you're not too sure, try taking the depression screening tests at valid medical sites, like the Mayo Clinic. The results might push you to get help. 

wordnerd

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2015, 07:05:36 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but have you thought about relocating? I see from your profile that you're in KY, and while Lexington may be a big city, it may just not be YOUR city. Is your job/are your skills transferable to a new place? Could you take a sabbatical and travel for a while--or go work overseas and get in with an expat community?

It sounds like YOU might need a change of scenery. Being outside your comfort zone (geographically speaking) may help your situation.

I've thought about it, but I don't have any confidence in being able to find a job that would pay what my current one pays. I guess I'm still dealing with a bit of Impostor Syndrome with respect to that.

A few weeks ago it looked like my job was going to force me to relocate to the Dallas area and I was pretty pumped about it, but that fell through due to literally everyone else having no interest in moving.

Oh well.

Start applying! See what happens. You seem to be shutting down every potential change without trying it.

I agree that you might be depressed. Consider finding a counselor. Even if you're not depressed, they may be able to help you work through this rut, work on your impostor syndrome/self-esteem, and find something that brings you joy.

Potential changes are risks. Putting my salary at risk when it's offering me the only flicker of light at the end of the tunnel doesn't sound reasonable.


How does applying for a new job put your current salary at risk? Presumably you wouldn't say anything to your current employer until you accepted a new offer.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2015, 07:16:57 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but have you thought about relocating? I see from your profile that you're in KY, and while Lexington may be a big city, it may just not be YOUR city. Is your job/are your skills transferable to a new place? Could you take a sabbatical and travel for a while--or go work overseas and get in with an expat community?

It sounds like YOU might need a change of scenery. Being outside your comfort zone (geographically speaking) may help your situation.

I've thought about it, but I don't have any confidence in being able to find a job that would pay what my current one pays. I guess I'm still dealing with a bit of Impostor Syndrome with respect to that.

A few weeks ago it looked like my job was going to force me to relocate to the Dallas area and I was pretty pumped about it, but that fell through due to literally everyone else having no interest in moving.

Oh well.

Start applying! See what happens. You seem to be shutting down every potential change without trying it.

I agree that you might be depressed. Consider finding a counselor. Even if you're not depressed, they may be able to help you work through this rut, work on your impostor syndrome/self-esteem, and find something that brings you joy.

Potential changes are risks. Putting my salary at risk when it's offering me the only flicker of light at the end of the tunnel doesn't sound reasonable.


How does applying for a new job put your current salary at risk? Presumably you wouldn't say anything to your current employer until you accepted a new offer.

If I were to find a new job, get it, quit my current job, and then after a few months they realize I'm not very good and they fire me.

an1m3n00b

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2015, 07:17:34 PM »
Kinda glossed over the thread, but I second the person who said travel. Even if you can't get time off, just schedule a long weekend or something and go somewhere you've never been. That's what keeps me going. That and I have way more hobbies than one person should. Honestly my 2 friends probably think I'm nuts (or they would if they weren't also the same way). Learn to draw. Program. Learn a language. Write a blog. Take photos. Set aside an hour and do nothing but listen to music. Learn to fix cars. Ride a bike (pedal or motorbike). None of these things have to be expensive. Hell, half of things can actually save you money / make you money. You only get one life, so do whatever it takes to be happy. Humans are meant to seek and conquer new challenges, yet it's also incredibly easy to get trapped in your comfort zone.

Hope it doesn't come off as pretentious coming from a 20-something who sure as hell doesn't have his life figured out yet. Also hope I can help.

JRA64

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2015, 07:19:49 PM »

.... I'm still not the kind of person who has other people in his life. And I worry that it doesn't matter what I do. I could be spectacular on paper, but maybe there's always going to be something deep down about me that make me awful and can't be changed.

That's 100% a victim mindset in my book.

Challenge still stands. You in? Cause I'm not interested in arguing semantics.

And I'm not saying that just to be harsh. You're not the only one on this site who's struggled with depression. There is a solution.

vagon

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2015, 07:26:17 PM »
The loneliness is what makes me miserable. Everything else in life is easy, so I don't really take much pride in any of it.

From my reading you would also be bored with dating or picking up women if you were able to adjust your social skills and appearance so as to gain any amount of consistent success.
The problem as I see it is this: you take self worth from being excellent at things, but...

The idea of volunteering has been mentioned to me before but it terrifies me. The possibility of going to do something where people are depending on me to help and then screwing up makes me feel awful.

...this has made you unwilling to risk failure as it impacts on your self-esteem.

My advice is you need to get over your fear of failure and/or make the things you find easy more difficult.
So try this:
1. For the "everything else" in life thats easy, consider how you can double it until it becomes a little scary. For example if you save/make X dollars or Y time through getting efficiencies, what would it take to double that amount? Scary? No? Double it again. Then go out and plan and execute to achieve that slightly scary goal.
2. For the stuff that "terrifies" you, divide the effort in half. For example instead if trying to help a depressed kid out scares you, maybe you could just aim to raise money for a charity that does, maybe just hand out fliers. Whatever. As long as it seems only scary and not terrifying.

Tigerpine

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2015, 07:26:28 PM »
Supertaster,

I used to live by myself overseas in Asia for a number of years.  There were nights that I felt so alone, I literally cried myself to sleep.  This was as a man roughly your age at the time.  What was worse, for a while, I didn't have any curtains, so the lights outside would keep me from sleeping.  It was a rough time, but I got through it, one day at a time.

Think about where you are now and envision where you want to be.  Then take small steps in that direction.  Of course not everything will work out, but after a while you can look back and see the progress you've made.

I don't think you should ever deny how you feel, but it's important to realize that you have more control over who you are than you might think.  Who you are is much more than the sum of your feelings.  You are a unique human being, and remember, every person on Earth started out the same way.   Look at a bunch of babies.  Each and every one is precious.  A true miracle of life.  What we lose sight of, is that what is true of babies the day they are born is true every single day thereafter.

Though you may not feel it, you are truly precious.  Simply by virtue of being alive, you deserve the chance to at least try to move your life in the direction you desire.  Keep on trying.  You're worth the effort!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 07:44:04 PM by Tigerpine »

wordnerd

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2015, 07:31:06 PM »
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but have you thought about relocating? I see from your profile that you're in KY, and while Lexington may be a big city, it may just not be YOUR city. Is your job/are your skills transferable to a new place? Could you take a sabbatical and travel for a while--or go work overseas and get in with an expat community?

It sounds like YOU might need a change of scenery. Being outside your comfort zone (geographically speaking) may help your situation.

I've thought about it, but I don't have any confidence in being able to find a job that would pay what my current one pays. I guess I'm still dealing with a bit of Impostor Syndrome with respect to that.

A few weeks ago it looked like my job was going to force me to relocate to the Dallas area and I was pretty pumped about it, but that fell through due to literally everyone else having no interest in moving.

Oh well.

Start applying! See what happens. You seem to be shutting down every potential change without trying it.

I agree that you might be depressed. Consider finding a counselor. Even if you're not depressed, they may be able to help you work through this rut, work on your impostor syndrome/self-esteem, and find something that brings you joy.

Potential changes are risks. Putting my salary at risk when it's offering me the only flicker of light at the end of the tunnel doesn't sound reasonable.


How does applying for a new job put your current salary at risk? Presumably you wouldn't say anything to your current employer until you accepted a new offer.

If I were to find a new job, get it, quit my current job, and then after a few months they realize I'm not very good and they fire me.

Why are you more likely to get fired at hypothetical job than current one? I won't continue in this line of questioning. I don't even know that relocating would be what's best for you, but you must know that you are making excuses.

You've admitted you're depressed, but unwilling to seek help. But, really what do you really have to lose? Check out if your work has EAP. If not, it's worth a couple hundred bucks to see if a couple of sessions with a therapist are helpful.

What you're experiencing is awful (and please hear this: you are not awful). You deserve better, but you're the only person who can decide to make steps towards changing. I wish you the best.

mozar

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2015, 07:37:13 PM »
I hate therapists too. They all have their own mainstream agenda that I'm not interested in.
Depression is a thought disorder. I started doing cognitive behavioral therapy. I read the book "Feeling Good, the new mood therapy" which was the break through I needed.

Tigerpine

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2015, 07:43:09 PM »
A good dose of George Carlin helped me with my divorce (later from the earlier episode from my life).

This is always good for my soul as well.  Never mind the words.  Just listen to the music.  It's very soothing.


*Edited because I found a longer version.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 07:53:23 PM by Tigerpine »

Sofa King

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2015, 07:48:29 PM »
I know it seems hopeless at times but if you systematically do the internet dating thing as well as try to meet women off line you WILL find someone looking for the same things you are. If you keep at it the law of averages WILL eventually work in your favor. But for this to happen you have to recognize the women that are nothing but a waste of your time need to be forgotten fast and on to the next. There are PLENTY of single woman out there waiting to meet the rite guy. You must be persistent tho and NOT give up. If it's worth having then it's worth the work you put into it.

okits

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2015, 07:50:53 PM »
I just moved to Lexington a week ago.  I want to explore the whole city and surrounding areas.  I'm not sure how much free time I'll actually have.  I will be focusing on school and work and I tend to get involved in community stuff.

That getting involved with community stuff tends to be what makes my life fulfilling.

It takes a lot more guts to be happy alone than it does to be surrounded by people. 

(or something)

I went out to the farmers market on Saturday and noticed that I was the only person there alone.  Odd feeling. I'm used to being in a small community where I know everyone, so even going to a farmers market I would know several people and bump into some friends.  Not so here.  I do know that personally  I need that alone time in order to enjoy time with people.

Do you go to the farmers market?  We should bump into each other there.

I've never been. As one of the few people on this site that's still clinging to his car, I've almost always avoided downtown. I could give it a try, but I might be an anxious wreck by the time I get there.

Just go.  Pick a day and time and meet.  This is the easiest pitch possible that's been lobbed at you. PMG already knows you feel like an anxious, awkward weirdo, so will cut you a ton of slack.  PMG wouldn't have offered to meet unless prepared to deal with that (and wanting to help you!) It's not a high-pressure date, you are going to meet a new Mustachian buddy and can talk about how to be frugal in Lexington and local stuff there is to do.  You've lived there a while, share what you know.

I hear fear of losing what you have if you try something new, but you know what?  Your current life sounds joyless. Why not risk a little for something better?  Chances are you are not special enough to have unique, insurmountable challenges.  Anyone interesting is bound to be a little weird. Find the weirdos whose quirks work with yours.

Supertaster

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Re: Does it ever seem useless?
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2015, 07:53:27 PM »
A good dose of George Carlin helped me with my divorce (later from the earlier episode from my life).

This is always good for my soul as well.  Never mind the words.  Just listen to the music.  It's very soothing.

Comedy definitely helps. I used to be really into it back in college, but apart from Patton Oswalt and Paul F. Tompkins I've sort of drifted away from it. Maybe I should find out who some of the new guys are.