Does anyone have a clever hack for paying bills with a credit card?

[so.mpls]

Hi all,

I want to start doing the Amazon payments method; but I want to make sure before I take the plunge - is it still fee free up to 1k?  Looking on their website I can't find anything about receiving money other than the 'For Merchants' section, which lists a 2.9% + $.30 fee.  Does this not apply if you're not actually selling anything?

[milesdividendmd]

Amazon payments is dead

http://www.milesdividendmd.com/amazonia-lost/

[brooklynguy]

I've been using Serve for a few month's now but have to say I really dislike it. It is a huge pain to switch credit cards. Every time I add one through their website it triggers some kind of security flag and they disable my account. I then have to scan pictures of the card, upload it, and call their hotline to get things normalized. It's pretty annoying having to do this for every single card. Does everyone go through the same crap process?

I agree.  This is why I use Serve only to rack up regular points on my favorite all purpose card (Barclays Arrival) and use other manufactured spending techniques (such as purchasing PayPal cash cards) to hit minimum spend thresholds for earning bonuses on rotating cards.

[arebelspy]

I've been using Serve for a few month's now but have to say I really dislike it. It is a huge pain to switch credit cards. Every time I add one through their website it triggers some kind of security flag and they disable my account. I then have to scan pictures of the card, upload it, and call their hotline to get things normalized. It's pretty annoying having to do this for every single card. Does everyone go through the same crap process?

No.  Most the time I add a card it works, but sometimes it gives me an error so I call and they add it over the phone.

[diesel15]

Just throwing an idea out there that some of you may not have considered.  If you sign up for an account at an online fantasy football site, say Draftkings for instance, you can use your credit card to deposit up to $2,000 per day.  You can then turn around and withdraw the money via Paypal.  My guess is that they will shut you down after some time if you don't actually enter any contests but it's free and maybe worth a shot.

[arebelspy]

Just throwing an idea out there that some of you may not have considered.  If you sign up for an account at an online fantasy football site, say Draftkings for instance, you can use your credit card to deposit up to $2,000 per day.  You can then turn around and withdraw the money via Paypal.  My guess is that they will shut you down after some time if you don't actually enter any contests but it's free and maybe worth a shot.

I wouldn't trust either of the sites mentioned with thousands of dollars.  :P

But I like your clever thinking.

[FarmerPete]

I've been using my Serve account for a month now, and I'm just wondering if there is an easy way to get Serve to my checking account.  I've been doing scheduled transfers of $200 5x a month from my CC.  I just really don't like the idea of sending that $$$ from Serve back to the CC.  I figure it will look better if I run it through another account first.  I don't have any other CC that has that kind of a regular balance on it.

Yes you can. Once you have linked to your bank account, you go to Settings > withdraw money.

I use this frequently, but my feeling is that this is more suspicious than simply paying your credit card bill from your serve account.

This will, of course, be exhaustively detailed in my current series on manufactured spending.

I don't want to detract from your blog post to come, but why would you think it more suspicious?  I've always paid with auto-pay from my bank account, so seeing these random payments come in from an account that you're also getting charges from is a little suspicious.

[brooklynguy]

I don't want to detract from your blog post to come, but why would you think it more suspicious?  I've always paid with auto-pay from my bank account, so seeing these random payments come in from an account that you're also getting charges from is a little suspicious.

I think the idea is that consistently funding your Serve account only to withdraw all of the funds to your bank account is suspicious, because you're not really using the Serve account for any purpose.  But I agree that roundtripping the funds back to the card you used to fund the account is even more suspicious.  So if you really have no other bills that you can pay using Serve, then if I were in your shoes I would do bank account withdrawals too.  Keep in mind, though, that you can use Serve to pay almost any bill (but you will get the most benefit out of this by only using it to pay bills that you could not ordinarily pay via credit card), such as utilities, rent, mortgage, etc.

[diesel15]

Just throwing an idea out there that some of you may not have considered.  If you sign up for an account at an online fantasy football site, say Draftkings for instance, you can use your credit card to deposit up to $2,000 per day.  You can then turn around and withdraw the money via Paypal.  My guess is that they will shut you down after some time if you don't actually enter any contests but it's free and maybe worth a shot.

I wouldn't trust either of the sites mentioned with thousands of dollars.  :P

But I like your clever thinking.

I've never had any issue getting money out of Draftkings.  It is absolutely legitimate IMO.  I actually use it as very nice little side hustle if you can call it that.  With that being said, I've never tried the deposit and withdraw strategy so I can't say if it will work or not.  I only withdraw. :P

[FarmerPete]

I don't want to detract from your blog post to come, but why would you think it more suspicious?  I've always paid with auto-pay from my bank account, so seeing these random payments come in from an account that you're also getting charges from is a little suspicious.

I think the idea is that consistently funding your Serve account only to withdraw all of the funds to your bank account is suspicious, because you're not really using the Serve account for any purpose.  But I agree that roundtripping the funds back to the card you used to fund the account is even more suspicious.  So if you really have no other bills that you can pay using Serve, then if I were in your shoes I would do bank account withdrawals too.  Keep in mind, though, that you can use Serve to pay almost any bill (but you will get the most benefit out of this by only using it to pay bills that you could not ordinarily pay via credit card), such as utilities, rent, mortgage, etc.

I have a grand total of 2 bills that can't be paid by credit card (Mortgage and Power/Water/Sewer).  I'd maybe consider mortgage, but since my other bill is so variable, my billpayer account at my bank gets the bills automatically and pays them in full.  I wont get any extra cash back on it, since I'm already getting cash back on the Serve transfer already.  How I spend the money wont get me a dime cash back.  I guess I've been more worried about my CC getting pissed vs Serve.

[milesdividendmd]

I've been using my Serve account for a month now, and I'm just wondering if there is an easy way to get Serve to my checking account.  I've been doing scheduled transfers of $200 5x a month from my CC.  I just really don't like the idea of sending that $$$ from Serve back to the CC.  I figure it will look better if I run it through another account first.  I don't have any other CC that has that kind of a regular balance on it.

Yes you can. Once you have linked to your bank account, you go to Settings > withdraw money.

I use this frequently, but my feeling is that this is more suspicious than simply paying your credit card bill from your serve account.

This will, of course, be exhaustively detailed in my current series on manufactured spending.

I don't want to detract from your blog post to come, but why would you think it more suspicious?  I've always paid with auto-pay from my bank account, so seeing these random payments come in from an account that you're also getting charges from is a little suspicious.

If we're talking about risk we should probably define what the risk is.

From the standpoint of the credit card company there is virtually no risk. The credit card company receives a check from a third-party check writing company that is often the exact same company that fulfills online banking bill pay from your actual bank.

So the real concern is getting shut down by Serve.

From serve's perspective, if you load your serve account via credit card, debit card, or reload pack, and then pay bills (such as credit card bills) you're using this pseudo-checking product exactly as designed.

If on the other hand you load up your serve account and then immediately liquidate it to your checking account, the question is why would you do this?  You're paying money for reload packs simply to make it deposit into a bank account that you already have?

That being said I use both techniques,and knock on wood,  have had no difficulty thus far.

[AndThen]

I've been using Serve for a few month's now but have to say I really dislike it. It is a huge pain to switch credit cards. Every time I add one through their website it triggers some kind of security flag and they disable my account. I then have to scan pictures of the card, upload it, and call their hotline to get things normalized. It's pretty annoying having to do this for every single card. Does everyone go through the same crap process?

No.  Most the time I add a card it works, but sometimes it gives me an error so I call and they add it over the phone.

My account has been disabled literally every single time I have added a card, credit or debit. After 4 different credit cards and 1 debit card, I gave up.

[Paul der Krake]

After a week of frantic reading on Flyer Talk while the cards of my first ever churn get here, I'm starting to wonder whether I am too late to the party. Amazon payments being dead, Serve reportedly starting to code online CC loads as cash advances, having to evade walmart cashiers when loading gift cards on Serve or buying money orders, hm could this be the beginning of the end?

I really wish I had gotten into this 6 months ago, life seemed to be so much easier back then. Thankfully I only have to spend 5k in 3 months, so if push comes to shove I will just buy prepaid cards and liquidate them with very slow regular spending.

[milesdividendmd]

After a week of frantic reading on Flyer Talk while the cards of my first ever churn get here, I'm starting to wonder whether I am too late to the party. Amazon payments being dead, Serve reportedly starting to code online CC loads as cash advances, having to evade walmart cashiers when loading gift cards on Serve or buying money orders, hm could this be the beginning of the end?

I really wish I had gotten into this 6 months ago, life seemed to be so much easier back then. Thankfully I only have to spend 5k in 3 months, so if push comes to shove I will just buy prepaid cards and liquidate them with very slow regular spending.

This game never dies. It just constantly evolves.

The recently released target redbird can be loaded directly at Target with zero fees!  That's a first!

Whatever you are doing now, will be obsolete in the future. Know that.

But the only thing that happens faster than opportunities expiring, is new opportunities opening up.

Not being pollyannaish. That is my honest take.

[arebelspy]

After a week of frantic reading on Flyer Talk while the cards of my first ever churn get here, I'm starting to wonder whether I am too late to the party. Amazon payments being dead, Serve reportedly starting to code online CC loads as cash advances, having to evade walmart cashiers when loading gift cards on Serve or buying money orders, hm could this be the beginning of the end?

I really wish I had gotten into this 6 months ago, life seemed to be so much easier back then. Thankfully I only have to spend 5k in 3 months, so if push comes to shove I will just buy prepaid cards and liquidate them with very slow regular spending.

Six months ago I thought I should have got in two years ago.

There's never a better time than today.

[Paul der Krake]

Haha yes, I know what you guys mean. Basically I'm at the point where it's all still very theoretical and that doesn't bode well with my engineer personality because I can see so many potential failure points and I start "panicking". It's always been the same for exams, job interviews, etc.

Can't wait to get my cards in the mail and ride my bike around town hunting for hacks. This is all I've been thinking about this week.

[iamadummy]

Just throwing an idea out there that some of you may not have considered.  If you sign up for an account at an online fantasy football site, say Draftkings for instance, you can use your credit card to deposit up to $2,000 per day.  You can then turn around and withdraw the money via Paypal.  My guess is that they will shut you down after some time if you don't actually enter any contests but it's free and maybe worth a shot.

I wouldn't trust either of the sites mentioned with thousands of dollars.  :P

But I like your clever thinking.

I've never had any issue getting money out of Draftkings.  It is absolutely legitimate IMO.  I actually use it as very nice little side hustle if you can call it that.  With that being said, I've never tried the deposit and withdraw strategy so I can't say if it will work or not.  I only withdraw. :P

I'd be careful with Draftkings. Look at what happened to PS and FT back. 

[bye-bye Ms. FancyPants]

After a week of frantic reading on Flyer Talk while the cards of my first ever churn get here, I'm starting to wonder whether I am too late to the party. Amazon payments being dead, Serve reportedly starting to code online CC loads as cash advances, having to evade walmart cashiers when loading gift cards on Serve or buying money orders, hm could this be the beginning of the end?

I really wish I had gotten into this 6 months ago, life seemed to be so much easier back then. Thankfully I only have to spend 5k in 3 months, so if push comes to shove I will just buy prepaid cards and liquidate them with very slow regular spending.

This game never dies. It just constantly evolves.

The recently released target redbird can be loaded directly at Target with zero fees!  That's a first!

Whatever you are doing now, will be obsolete in the future. Know that.

But the only thing that happens faster than opportunities expiring, is new opportunities opening up.

Not being pollyannaish. That is my honest take.

Ah! Glad to read I'm not the only who feels late to the party .... Even more happy to know the party never ends :)

[johnny847]

Evolve Money (I think it's been mentioned on this thread before?) is a service you can use to pay your bills, no fees (unless you expedite the payment, but who cares).

They announced that they accept Discover CC's now, and plan on adding Visa and Mastercard CC's as well sometime in the future.
http://millionmilesecrets.com/2014/11/11/evolve-money-now-lets-you-pay-bills-with-a-credit-card/

Currently you can buy those prepaid debit cards at stores for ~1% fee ($5 on $500) and then use those on Evolve Money.

[Paul der Krake]

Confirmation: this is fun as balls.

The CC companies that don't let you set the cash advance to 0 are no fun, however.

[arebelspy]

I've never bothered to set any cash advance limits.

[Paul der Krake]

 

I've never bothered to set any cash advance limits.

I didn't think there would be a need either, but last month people started reporting their online serve loads posting as advances, although it seems to be mainly limited to visas so far. It could change overnight for mastercards and don't particularly like the idea paying $20 a pop + interest.

[firelight]

If we set cash advance to zero, amex serve charges would show up as regular ones?

[johnny847]

If we set cash advance to zero, amex serve charges would show up as regular ones?

It would either be denied because its coded as a cash advance, or go through as a purchase.

With some Chase cards, it's been reported that Amex Serve loads initially register as a cash advance, but then post as a transaction. In this scenario, lowering the cash advance limit to zero would prohibit the Amex Serve load from going through at all.

[Mesmoiselle]

Manufactured Spending seems really complicated. I've just gotten into CC churning and think that if I get close to the end but not quite, I could buy a Gift Card or two after 2.5 months of true spending, which is sort of semi manufactured spending. But then someone mentioned that CC cards flag and close accounts that do that? Or is it more like, if you buy $3000 of gift Cards all at once for the $3000 goal spend that there is an issue?

[arebelspy]

Manufactured Spending seems really complicated. I've just gotten into CC churning and think that if I get close to the end but not quite, I could buy a Gift Card or two after 2.5 months of true spending, which is sort of semi manufactured spending. But then someone mentioned that CC cards flag and close accounts that do that? Or is it more like, if you buy $3000 of gift Cards all at once for the $3000 goal spend that there is an issue?

They might if you only purchase from giftcardmall.com or something, but typically they don't, and you can put it down to Christmas spending. Also if you buy them at regular shops they can't tell you purchased gift cards.

It hasn't been a problem for me, even when I've flat out told Chase I'm buying gift cards.

[milesdividendmd]

Confirmation: this is fun as balls.

The CC companies that don't let you set the cash advance to 0 are no fun, however.

Welcome to the madness!

[bye-bye Ms. FancyPants]

Confirmation: this is fun as balls.

The CC companies that don't let you set the cash advance to 0 are no fun, however.

^^LMAO^^ Agreed :)

[Ricky]

Is there a list of cards that work with Serve without being treated as a cash advance?

[Will]

Is there a list of cards that work with Serve without being treated as a cash advance?

Try this:  http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1199432-serve-another-paypal-amazon-payments-175.html#post23617937

[NoraLenderbee]

I just got my Serve account, planning to use some MS to get some bonuses. My thought was to load serve straight from the CC, and then pay the CC from Serve. But the Serve legal agreement includes this:

"You agree NOT to transfer funds from your Account to a linked credit or debit card or debit/payroll card; for example, you may not transfer funds from your Account to pay for an outstanding credit card bill."
 

Does this actually mean you can no longer use Serve to pay off a credit card at all?? or just not the same CC that you used to load the Serve account originally?

Thanks for your wisdom.

[arebelspy]

That sounds like just not the linked card.

Unlink it before paying it? ;)

[milesdividendmd]

Or pay a different bill with serve (mortgage, rent, student loans...) or just withdraw your serve account balance to your linked bank account, or buy money orders with your serve card.

Lots of options.....

[NoraLenderbee]

Or pay a different bill with serve (mortgage, rent, student loans...) or just withdraw your serve account balance to your linked bank account, or buy money orders with your serve card.

Lots of options.....

. . . and then pay the CC from the bank account? That's even easier than buying gift cards or MOs.

Thanks!

[Paul der Krake]

It's been a month since I entered the magical world of the miles game. I started very small, only needed to spend 5K for a result of 150,000 miles.

Things I have learned so far:

1) Don't take what people say on flyertalk too seriously. There is so much volume over there that it's really hard to figure out who knows what they're talking about, who's being an idiot funnelling their annual gross income in money orders per month. Do your own research and experiment. I highly suspect that the most successful MSers out there follow the millionaire next door approach of laying low and not bragging (which begs the question, why am I even writing this post?).

2) Regular stores can be a pain in the ass to deal with. I've had a cashier give me a hard time because the back of my card wasn't signed and I didn't have an ID on me. I have had great success in, erm, less savoury parts of town. Cashiers there are less suspicious with the caveat that you can't overplay your hand. I can get away with buying $500 worth at a time but I would look very out of place buying multiple thousands in a neighborhood where a good chunk of people don't even have $1,000 in their names at any given time this year (aside maybe from tax refund time). My white ass sticks out enough already as it is. Obviously if you are to do this, use your best judgement and be safe. I tend to go early in the morning on the weekends when the thugs are still sound asleep.

3) Mixing spend operations with exercise and errands. My SO cooks a lot and inevitably we run out of an item or two. Instead of grabbing my bike and going to the usual grocery store to pick it up, I'll take the scenic route and go to another store in the hood (see paragraph above), adding some extra miles and much needed exercise to my errand. Win-win. I have observed variations in store policies on a regional level as well.

4) These so called "underbanked" products suck. Awful websites, unclear instructions. I can't imagine the life of people who use these products by necessity. I refuse to do business with GreenDot or any other sketchy company that requires me to hand over my SSN. So far so good. Serve is a revolutionary product for those people in the sense that it doesn't suck. Massive kudos to AMEX for having the balls to serve (get it?) that market.

5) Don't be an idiot. Stick to hitting the initial bonus and that's it. Don't load money and withdraw it immediately. Don't argue with people. Stay well within the limits of what would be considered credible with regards to your income. Don't be greedy.

[neo von retorch]

Anyone have trouble loading their Serve card from a credit card? Chase Visa - first time no issue, loaded $200. 2 days later and it will not let me add more. The "official" limits are $200 / day and $1000 / month from a credit card, but I seem to be hitting an invisible barrier.

[arebelspy]

Anyone have trouble loading their Serve card from a credit card? Chase Visa - first time no issue, loaded $200. 2 days later and it will not let me add more. The "official" limits are $200 / day and $1000 / month from a credit card, but I seem to be hitting an invisible barrier.

What error message are you getting?  Have you called their customer service? They're fairly helpful on CC issues.

[neo von retorch]

We are unable to complete your request at this time, as additional information is needed. Please call Customer Service at 1-800-954-0559. Our hours of operation are 9am - 8pm EST, Monday - Friday.

I have not tried calling yet. I wasn't sure if there was something "wrong" with me trying to load the card this way.

[arebelspy]

They'll just verify some info about you and the card, most likely.

[jamaicaspanish]

I had to send verification of my:  1.  identity (drivers license);  2. physical ownership of the card (photo of both sides);  3. ownership of linked bank account (copy of statement).

When my Barclay's card was compromised and re-issued, Serve asked me to send a photo of the new card, as well.

Small, but annoying hoops to jump through.

[Returnoftheyeti]

Target RedBird.  Load $1000 at a time from a credit card, pay bills, withdraw cash. 
I can confirm that this shows as a "normal" charge on my Discover card, which I am using the 0% interest introduction rate right now.

So, here is what I have done.  Added $3000 to my RedBird, funding it with my Discover credit card.  Then, gone into my RedBird Online account, and used the bill pay feature to pay my Balance on my Capital One Card. 

So, now have a 3k balance on a Discover card with 0% in interest, and I have 14 months to pay it off.
I have 3k in cash in a Discover Savings account earning .85% interest compounded daily.
I have the discover card pulling $220 auto pay monthly from the savings account, so its all paid off in 14 months. 
And, I earned $30 cash back by charging $3k on the Discover card.

Its great when they PAY you to do crap like this....

[NoraLenderbee]

We are unable to complete your request at this time, as additional information is needed. Please call Customer Service at 1-800-954-0559. Our hours of operation are 9am - 8pm EST, Monday - Friday.

I have not tried calling yet. I wasn't sure if there was something "wrong" with me trying to load the card this way.

This happened to me when I tried to register a new card with Serve. I called customer service. They said I needed to provide a scan (photocopy) of some documents. They sent me an email with details and a secure upload link. I uploaded scans of my driver's license and the new CC, front side only. My card was approved about a week later. No sweat! 

[Paul der Krake]

We are unable to complete your request at this time, as additional information is needed. Please call Customer Service at 1-800-954-0559. Our hours of operation are 9am - 8pm EST, Monday - Friday.

I have not tried calling yet. I wasn't sure if there was something "wrong" with me trying to load the card this way.

This happened to me when I tried to register a new card with Serve. I called customer service. They said I needed to provide a scan (photocopy) of some documents. They sent me an email with details and a secure upload link. I uploaded scans of my driver's license and the new CC, front side only. My card was approved about a week later. No sweat!

I was told to call back immediately after uploading so that they could approve it on the spot, and they did. No need to wait.

[arebelspy]

I was told to call back immediately after uploading so that they could approve it on the spot, and they did. No need to wait.

+1.  I had to go through this once when setting up the account last summer, and since then haven't had issues. Worth going through.

[Jags4186]

Manufactured Spend is only really worth it for the initial bonuses nowadays.  It's an awful lot of work buy things that give you 1 point per dollar when there are fees involved.  There are some things which are no brianers--I.E. if you have a Chase Ink card...you should buy amazon gift cards from staples and then buy on amazon so you get 5x instead of directly from amazon and getting 1x.  Amex Serve is another no brainer if its not a cash advance.  Other than that though, buying $500 visa gift cards for $505.95 isn't generally a worthwhile endeavor.  Too much hassle IMO. 

If you're going to try and get a lot of points you should try double and triple dipping buying things through shopping portals.  You can usually get at least 10x and sometimes up to 30x points when buying from places like Sears!  Buy some crap, then turn around and sell it on Amazon or Ebay and you can really make a lot of points.

One blog I read called frequent miler, the author describes how he did this to earn 1 million points and make $1000 cash in 1 month!