Author Topic: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?  (Read 15265 times)

Frugal_is_Fab

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Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« on: February 12, 2014, 05:20:33 AM »
I know that this is a little bit of a gripe, but yesterday I was at a mandatory coworker lunch and I was once again stuck in the middle of one of those "consumer" conversations where everyone is talking about what they are buying and what they want to buy.

It seems like those who embrace consumerism really get all the admiration in these circles.   I really don't try to make a real issue of the fact that I only participate in consumer society is a minimal way and I save 80% of my income as a result, but as a result I don't have new toys to talk about.   I'd like an attagirl once in a while instead of having to listen to a long discussions of someone's latest leased BMW and how great it is while everyone ews and ahs about the car or house or motorcycle or whatever new consumer thing someone has gone into debt to buy.

Just needed to vent to a sympathetic audience.  Thanks for listening :-)

dragoncar

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 06:51:12 AM »
I think it's mostly entertainment.  I'd ooh and ahh over the shiny car, talk about how I'd love to get a tesla, and then go back to saving all my money the next day

Bethersonton

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 07:03:30 AM »
I used to get irritated and then one day I realized that it was like I was carrying around a little warm, glowing secret. By spending less than I earn, I get to work for far fewer years and for far fewer hours than most people.

After that, I started being amused by hearing all of the "must-haves" and "needs." I actually giggle internally now.

rubybeth

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 07:12:36 AM »
I'd suggest starting a journal here if you haven't already. People will cheer you on, you just gotta find the right audience. It's not likely to happen at work. I've tried discussing early retirement with some co-workers but even retiring at all is such a foreign concept for most of them--and honestly, I am at the top of the pay scale for my position, so my income is higher than most people I talk to, plus we don't have kids--that I just drop it.

lackofstache

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 07:50:52 AM »
My sister-in law is from a well off family & she and my brother update everything every couple of years. My brother finds the best deals and works the system well, but still has to have brand new vehicles, update appliances, etc. I just listen to what he likes about it, discuss his options and his deals & then live my life. They like their life, I love them, so I don't try to step on any toes. He listens when I talk about the benefits of riding my bike, so it's a trade off. Luckily for me, my co-workers are similar & there are only a couple. I surround myself w/ like-minded friends as well. Not all of them see everything the same as me, but it helps with staying positive.

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 07:56:09 AM »
80% savings rate- Attagirl!

Perhaps you should step back and think about whether you really need or want the admiration of people who prize material possessions so highly.

horsepoor

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 08:17:48 AM »
80% savings rate- Attagirl!

Perhaps you should step back and think about whether you really need or want the admiration of people who prize material possessions so highly.

I don't know that the OP is looking for admiration.  Socially, it's nice to be able to participate in a conversation instead of sitting there sort of nodding.  I deal with the same thing because I never watch sports, and my co-workers, all bondover the latest football game, and also fishing.  Two things I couldn't give a shit about.  I imagine they'd look at her crosseyed if she started talking about hacks for repairing something or cutting electricity usage or good investment returns.  It's sort of an uncomfortable disconnect with people you are forced to interact with on a daily basis in the working world.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 09:02:32 AM »
Socially, it's nice to be able to participate in a conversation instead of sitting there sort of nodding.  I deal with the same thing because I never watch sports, and my co-workers, all bondover the latest football game, and also fishing.  Two things I couldn't give a shit about.  I imagine they'd look at her crosseyed if she started talking about hacks for repairing something or cutting electricity usage or good investment returns.  It's sort of an uncomfortable disconnect with people you are forced to interact with on a daily basis in the working world.

That is definitely where I am - I don't like sports, and I don't spend gobs of money or care about fancy shoes or purses or cars or gadgets - really any of the stuff that gets discussed around my workplace. It is sometimes kind of isolating, but I've tried to tentatively bring up saving or frugal hacks and other than the "oh, yeah, I guess I should save money" sort of thing that ends up just making them feel like they were bragging and that I'm judging them.

I don't connect well with others as it is, so I try to just stifle the frugal side and just listen and smile.


Mori

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 06:38:31 PM »

Socially, it's nice to be able to participate in a conversation instead of sitting there sort of nodding.  I deal with the same thing because I never watch sports, and my co-workers, all bondover the latest football game, and also fishing.  Two things I couldn't give a shit about.  I imagine they'd look at her crosseyed if she started talking about hacks for repairing something or cutting electricity usage or good investment returns.  It's sort of an uncomfortable disconnect with people you are forced to interact with on a daily basis in the working world.

I have the same issue with not connecting w/coworkers, but it's really because we have such divergent hobbies. They are big movie and TV people, and I'm not. Could care less. Occasionally they talk about books, but they are usually ones I haven't read (big fantasy geek here). So, sometimes I sit in and talk with them, and other days I eat at my desk. Fortunately enough there are enough people at lunch that they can usually carry the conversation without me adding too much.

I will say that asking about kids and partners gets me plenty of conversational information--people like to talk about themselves! :) They aren't a bad bunch, it's just occasionally awkward to have so few things in common.

MarciaB

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 06:54:39 PM »
This is the same thing for those of us who don't have televisions or haven't watched TV for years. That "You know that commercial where..." and "Did you see the latest episode of..." is a tricky business. If you mention that you don't have a TV then you get met with the blank stare of those who feel judged. So I just say "Huh, no I haven't seen it..." and let it go at that. Saving 80% of your pay, or not doing TV, or biking to work (etc.) makes you an outlier. And that makes people uncomfortable.

And by the way - YOU ROCK!

libertarian4321

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 11:10:00 PM »

instead of having to listen to a long discussions of someone's latest leased BMW and how great it is while everyone ews and ahs about the car or house or motorcycle or whatever new consumer thing someone has gone into debt to buy.

Just needed to vent to a sympathetic audience.  Thanks for listening :-)

Well, if you want to end this conversation quickly, just say something along the lines of "My old car/truck is a POS, but I but I achieved financial independence at age 37 (or whatever)"- that will probably get you some "deer in the headlights" looks.

HappierAtHome

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2014, 11:13:01 PM »

instead of having to listen to a long discussions of someone's latest leased BMW and how great it is while everyone ews and ahs about the car or house or motorcycle or whatever new consumer thing someone has gone into debt to buy.

Just needed to vent to a sympathetic audience.  Thanks for listening :-)

Well, if you want to end this conversation quickly, just say something along the lines of "My old car/truck is a POS, but I but I achieved financial independence at age 37 (or whatever)"- that will probably get you some "deer in the headlights" looks.

My experience is that that strategy actually leads to being even more of an outsider.

Adventine

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2014, 12:49:23 AM »
I too feel a bit like an alien whenever I start talking about frugality and anti-consumerism and investing, so I only discuss that with people who are receptive.

When it comes to conversations about topics I can't really relate to, I find that the best approach is to just listen and ask attentive questions about whatever it is the other person likes to talk about. If they like to talk about their new leased BMW, well, it's not something I can really relate to either, but for the sake of getting along I'd indulge them with polite interest.

The book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" was a really big help for me; you may want to check it out.

vern

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2014, 01:28:00 AM »
Avoid the reeking herd,

Shun the polluted flock,

Live like that stoic bird,

The eagle of the rock.

Elinor Wylie


Frugal_is_Fab

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2014, 03:54:04 AM »
Thank you everyone!  I really enjoyed your comments.  It's great to hear from you all!

I nod politely and will continue to do so when with this crowd.   I was just feeling like I needed to hear from other outliers to know I'm not completely alone!  :-)

chasesfish

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 04:35:20 AM »
I'm really fortunate to work in an industry and around people who are habitual savers.  Many not to the extent of me, but still not massive spenders.

SwordGuy

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2014, 06:18:28 AM »
I too feel a bit like an alien whenever I start talking about frugality and anti-consumerism and investing, so I only discuss that with people who are receptive.

When it comes to conversations about topics I can't really relate to, I find that the best approach is to just listen and ask attentive questions about whatever it is the other person likes to talk about. If they like to talk about their new leased BMW, well, it's not something I can really relate to either, but for the sake of getting along I'd indulge them with polite interest.

The book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" was a really big help for me; you may want to check it out.

If you really want to amuse yourself, be very attentive and be very obviously interested in their story.  Ask questions about their story to fill in missing but TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT details.  Ask frequently.  Be thrilled with their answer.  Watch them squirm as they deal with trying to enjoy your obvious interest vs. the inane interruptions that are driving them crazy.

It's not the way to win friends and influence people, but DAMN IT'S FUN!

Adventine

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2014, 08:02:29 AM »
I too feel a bit like an alien whenever I start talking about frugality and anti-consumerism and investing, so I only discuss that with people who are receptive.

When it comes to conversations about topics I can't really relate to, I find that the best approach is to just listen and ask attentive questions about whatever it is the other person likes to talk about. If they like to talk about their new leased BMW, well, it's not something I can really relate to either, but for the sake of getting along I'd indulge them with polite interest.

The book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" was a really big help for me; you may want to check it out.

If you really want to amuse yourself, be very attentive and be very obviously interested in their story.  Ask questions about their story to fill in missing but TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT details.  Ask frequently.  Be thrilled with their answer.  Watch them squirm as they deal with trying to enjoy your obvious interest vs. the inane interruptions that are driving them crazy.

It's not the way to win friends and influence people, but DAMN IT'S FUN!


Ha! And I know just the person to try that out on. Soon... :D

CommonCents

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2014, 08:21:30 AM »
I guess I'm lucky because my coworkers don't tend to talk on about the latest cars.
- Two coworkers bike to work except in bad weather (snow covering up the shoulder)
- Another coworker I know rents an very undermarket, large place and shares it with his bf and a roommate, paying less than I have ever paid for rent in this city even 13 years ago
- Another just bought a small house, much smaller than the one we just bought
- Some have always brought lunch in, every single day (I use to slip up more because it was low-priced but I'm getting better, now that the caf helpfully raised it's prices)

In comparision to them I probably seem spendy and non-MMM!

So it's easy enough to change the subject to something less consumeristic, and they don't look at me as if I'm entirely crazy when I shared I cut the cable cord recently and I'm just bummed out by how difficult it is to see the Olympics.  They would be excited to hear about a weekend hiking and they've agreed I had a wonderful night when we had a fire and roasted s'mores.  Another coworker even inspired me to create de-clutter challenges with her, before I even found MMM.

My suggestion is to to just smile sometimes - and sometimes change the subject.  (Not always, you don't want to be annoying.)  And find those more likeminded.  It may surprise you but I bet there are others out there.

Exflyboy

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2014, 11:02:51 AM »
Attagal frugal!

Like you I had decades of derision mostly by my family,, "Frank is so tight, he doesn't know how to enjoy himself blah blah blah"

I discovered in getting a little older that I really didn't care what other people thought and this year the tables have turned.. I.e when we were all sitting around jawing I would drop the fact of "yeah I'm gonna retire in the New year"

Stunned silence.. followed by disbelief followed by how the heck are you gonna do that.

Since then I have had several conversations about saving and investing.

When I was asked what was I buying?... answer.. freedom!

There is a huge re-org/layoffs coming to my ex-colleagues. I feel for them because I hear so many stories of fear "What am I gonna do?"

Of course sadly its too late.. its "what should they have done?"

Just remember the world has gone mad. I recognised that nearly 30 years ago and when it all came crashing down in 2008 I was sitting in my house which I owned outright!

Have faith, educate when they have ears. just say "how nice for you" when they don't..

Frank
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 11:09:45 AM by frankh »

Frugal_is_Fab

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2014, 04:58:25 AM »
80% savings rate- Attagirl!

Perhaps you should step back and think about whether you really need or want the admiration of people who prize material possessions so highly.

I don't know that the OP is looking for admiration.  Socially, it's nice to be able to participate in a conversation instead of sitting there sort of nodding.  I deal with the same thing because I never watch sports, and my co-workers, all bondover the latest football game, and also fishing.  Two things I couldn't give a shit about.  I imagine they'd look at her crosseyed if she started talking about hacks for repairing something or cutting electricity usage or good investment returns.  It's sort of an uncomfortable disconnect with people you are forced to interact with on a daily basis in the working world.

Yes, I think Nancy gets what I'm going for.   My interests are so divergent from my coworkers that I can't really participate in conversations and there is a lot of forced togetherness.   Funny how companies expect everyone to become best friends just because each person was hired for the "team".

I would like admiration but it isn't going to happen with this crowd.   

Gray Matter

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2014, 05:16:32 AM »
Luckily, I don't really have this issue in my immediate workgroup/department.  People have varying interests, but are genuinely open to discussing a wide variety of topics and one-on-one will talk about just about anything you care about.

That said, in the larger organization, I sometimes feel like an outsider.  When I was hired, my boss flat-out acknowledged that I was "different" and she considered that the value I brought to the organization--a different perspective.  I've spent the past 12 years picking recyclables out of the garbage and trying to get people to use gender neutral language and analogies of something other than sports/war.  I can't say I've managed to change behavior, though I've built awareness in that people will use their sports/war analogy, and then apologize to me. 

I've met many wonderful people here over the years, but I am at a point in my life where fit matters to me, and I would rather delay retirement by a few years in order to work with people with more shared values (which will inevitably mean less income).

Frugal_is_Fab

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2014, 05:27:21 AM »
Attagal frugal!

Like you I had decades of derision mostly by my family,, "Frank is so tight, he doesn't know how to enjoy himself blah blah blah"

I discovered in getting a little older that I really didn't care what other people thought and this year the tables have turned.. I.e when we were all sitting around jawing I would drop the fact of "yeah I'm gonna retire in the New year"

Stunned silence.. followed by disbelief followed by how the heck are you gonna do that.

Since then I have had several conversations about saving and investing.

When I was asked what was I buying?... answer.. freedom!

There is a huge re-org/layoffs coming to my ex-colleagues. I feel for them because I hear so many stories of fear "What am I gonna do?"

Of course sadly its too late.. its "what should they have done?"

Just remember the world has gone mad. I recognised that nearly 30 years ago and when it all came crashing down in 2008 I was sitting in my house which I owned outright!

Have faith, educate when they have ears. just say "how nice for you" when they don't..

Frank

Thank you Frank!  I'm inspired by your post.   I enjoyed reading some of your other posts about early retirement.

I'm sitting here crying because I'm so tired from all the crazy non stop meaningless corporate work.  I loved reading your story about early retirement.

How do you handle your health insurance?  That's the one I'm having the most trouble wrapping my head around for early retirement. 

soccerluvof4

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2014, 06:02:09 AM »
I find out live (with 4 kids in sports) is so busy that most of the time the "circle" we are running in most of my friends are looking for ways to save. We just got back from a tournament in Vegas and now the coach wants to go to SC and San Diego next winter so talking about doing fund raising but what i have found is parents even with gobs of money still want to find ways to save so its easier if asked to offer up ideas and find when i say something like I am cutting living expenses etc.. more and more people are all ears.

Exflyboy

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2014, 11:17:48 AM »
Attagal frugal!



Thank you Frank!  I'm inspired by your post.   I enjoyed reading some of your other posts about early retirement.

I'm sitting here crying because I'm so tired from all the crazy non stop meaningless corporate work.  I loved reading your story about early retirement.

How do you handle your health insurance?  That's the one I'm having the most trouble wrapping my head around for early retirement.

Yes its such BS isn't it?.. My last job the corporate culture was "management by fear".. I was ordered to discipline one of my staff for throwing a wobbly in a public meeting.. He is a young guy, needed coaching and telling he was doing a fine job but that behaviour won't help him advance blah blah... Because of a major event (caused by the incompetence of others) this guy had been working close to 80 hours that week... totally burned out!

So Like a good boss I put my hand on his shoulder and helped find a strategy for dealing with this type of stuff.

But NO.. My boss came along and ordered me to write him up because he walked out on a senior executive and they didn't care what he'd been through.

I told him I would have walked out on him too and what he could do with his discipline forms!... I point blank refused to do it. I was a great boss, I nuture and coach my team, not berate them the first time they step out of line... Of course I had plenty of FU money too so I had no problem in pointing out they should all go back and re-do their worthless MBA's before half the staff found other jobs..:)

Anyway I digress..:)

Healthcare.. I don't know yet. My Wife is still working and we get pretty good HC and she does not have a retirement date yet. We are making a bit less than what 4% of our stash will bring in so there is a little spare money there, plus no SS or medicare taxes after she quits so we have a few thousand more when she does finally call it day than we do know so I'm thinking this will probably cover it.

Plus we will probably still have our rental income as well.

Frank

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2014, 12:06:51 PM »
I know what you're saying:  You're perfectly happy with the choices you've made.  You don't want to change places with these other people.  You don't want to live their lives.  You prefer your priorities to theirs. 

But sometimes you just kind of feel overwhelmed by hearing other people's conversations. 

ruthiegirl

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2014, 02:03:52 PM »
I know what you're saying:  You're perfectly happy with the choices you've made.  You don't want to change places with these other people.  You don't want to live their lives.  You prefer your priorities to theirs. 

But sometimes you just kind of feel overwhelmed by hearing other people's conversations.

Well said.  I don't know many spendthrifts anymore, but I do remember my corporate years working alongside some of the biggest money toads I have ever met.   I still cringe thinking about some of the stupid money mistakes I watched people make.  And listening to them relate their dumb moves over and over...painful. 

greenmimama

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2014, 02:12:43 PM »
I am very impressed that you save so much, way to go!!!

I have felt very much like an outsider for some time now, especially my DH's brother thinks we are so weird, it's annoying the way he condescendingly talks down to my DH. He hand delivered his bonus check (he's his boss) and said, "here now go on a real vacation" We had just gotten back from a trip to FL and a cruise with our kids, but since we opted to not stay at the $700/nigh Hard Rock hotel they did, we are cheap and stupid, As if the bonus check is some gift that my DH didn't earn. It's frustrating to say the least, so to answer your question, yes and I don't have a great answer except keep on doing what you are doing and we can discuss important matters here :)

electriceagle

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2014, 06:47:13 PM »
Hey there Frankh

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but you may want to tell your boss that you plan on leaving. Odds are that your department wants to lose as few people as possible; maybe they'd like to lay you off and give you severance instead of firing someone who desperately wants the job and then suffering a voluntary loss afterwards.

(attagal frugal_is_fab!)

Attagal frugal!

There is a huge re-org/layoffs coming to my ex-colleagues. I feel for them because I hear so many stories of fear "What am I gonna do?"

Of course sadly its too late.. its "what should they have done?"

Just remember the world has gone mad. I recognised that nearly 30 years ago and when it all came crashing down in 2008 I was sitting in my house which I owned outright!

Have faith, educate when they have ears. just say "how nice for you" when they don't..

Frank
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 06:53:37 PM by electriceagle »

Eric

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2014, 07:43:15 PM »
Hey there Frankh

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but you may want to tell your boss that you plan on leaving. Odds are that your department wants to lose as few people as possible; maybe they'd like to lay you off and give you severance instead of firing someone who desperately wants the job and then suffering a voluntary loss afterwards.

I'll save you the words Frank.  You're too late EE!

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/share-your-badassity/i-retired-today!-%29/

Exflyboy

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2014, 11:30:50 PM »
....:)

Frank

Cwadda

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2014, 12:24:34 AM »
The other day I heard a conversation between two people. "I automatically buy a brand new car every other year."

It becomes so ridiculous that it's piteous.

quilter

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2014, 06:32:31 AM »
We all need our drugs and fixes so to speak. For some, it is shopping, watching tv, complaining about their spouses, stuffing their face with crap food or drinking. For some their fix is watching their stash grow, fixing their own car, learning something new, exercising etc.

So it is all about choices. When you make the out of ordinary choice, no matter how good for you, most won't understand or make the connection.

I had people tell me my car was an embarrassment, an old rust bucket standard honda with 200,000 + miles on it.  I wore old shoes into the office and had a few work pairs under my desk. I bought my lunch everyday. I never participated in the secret Santa, candle parties or ridiculously overpriced fundraisers. When my kids were in college I was even cheaper because I wanted them to be as close as debt free as we could manage when they graduated. Today my kids, in their thirties enjoy reporting how they are progressing towards Fi themselves, and how thankful they are to us for giving them a solid base to build on.

I was definitely the outsider, yet few made the connection when I retired at age 52.  They honestly said things like I must have won the lottery as we lived in a nice house, had planned travel etc.

People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. Be thankful you have seen the light and can avoid the toxicity of debt, worthless material accumulation and mindless activities.  Make your life worthwhile and meaningful and you won't be sorry.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 06:37:29 AM by quilter »

Cinder

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2014, 12:06:37 PM »
I had a coworker who saw me riding home in my random collection of warm layers.  She said that if she didn't know me/that I worked here, she'd have thought I was a hobo or something similar, with my scuffed up work boots on my mountain bike, with my milk-crate strapped onto my rear rack on my bike. 

She said 'If you spent about $1k you could probably look proper and stay warm, and you'd probably still come out ahead over driving costs".  She is 'starting' to make the connection, but the fact that how I look doesn't matter to me at all while I am riding into work, that the $1k that she sees as a reasonable expense has much better uses elsewhere. 

It's tough, but I do have other coworkers who are saving 70~80% of their take home, and do relate to them often. 

chucklesmcgee

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2014, 12:48:56 PM »
I think you can participate in these conversations. Buying luxury items may be costly, but learning about them isn't. It's kind of fun to watch the WSJ or whoever taking out a new Bentley for a spin.

Deferring to mainstream interests with coworkers is just another part of being polite.

lexie2000

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2014, 01:15:40 PM »
We started our careers during the yuppie era.   The biggies among our co-workers were leasing luxury cars and buying designer clothes for work.  We never bought into it.  We drove a respectable Chrysler sedan (bought used, paid cash) and dressed nicely, but on the cheap.   We saved rather than following the sheeple.  I don't remember being made to feel like an outsider among our co-workers (even though I knew, happily, that we were).   I think they gave us "a break", assuming that we simply could not "keep up" as most of them were engineers and we were a bit lower paid business types.  We didn't do anything to make them think any differently.   I remember one of my supervisors complaining about his struggle with debt.  At the time we had thousands in the bank and were maxing out our 401ks.

lifejoy

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2014, 01:44:08 PM »
At least you'll have tons of fodder for the "Antimustachian wall of shame and comedy overheard at work" thread? :)

the fixer

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2014, 03:09:59 PM »
I've gradually started to get better at relating to people through things other than money. Yes, some people like to talk about how stupid they are with their spending, but if you can steer the conversation to other topics you might find common ground.

I have a few friends who are definitely not Mustachian, but I can still talk to them about stuff and can be known for something other than being frugal/cheap. Perhaps what I'm known for best is all my cooking and fermenting. They're always asking me what I've been making lately: the answer to that today is coconut muffins, a baked acorn squash, and a batch of sauerkraut that just finished. I've been mixing the sauerkraut with ground chorizo and it's YUMMY! Yesterday it was some chicken thighs that were on discount at the grocery store tossed in Indian spices, plus some boiled beets and kale sauteed in the leftover fat & spices from the thighs. Even among people who don't cook, everything I mentioned sounds really tasty and inspires, or at least causes envy, and elevates my social status a bit.

Some people also like to live vicariously through hearing about my outdoor activities.

choppingwood

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2014, 12:15:34 PM »
At a mandatory coworker lunch like you describe, I'd be looking for topics to ask questions about that have something that interests all of us, or that don't directly involve material things. People like to talk about their kids and their gardens and food and what their plans are for the next long weekend or for a home imporvement. What they are doing or talking about doesn't  have to fit with what you would do. It is just a conversation.

Frugal_is_Fab

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2014, 02:38:30 AM »
We all need our drugs and fixes so to speak. For some, it is shopping, watching tv, complaining about their spouses, stuffing their face with crap food or drinking. For some their fix is watching their stash grow, fixing their own car, learning something new, exercising etc.

So it is all about choices. When you make the out of ordinary choice, no matter how good for you, most won't understand or make the connection.

I had people tell me my car was an embarrassment, an old rust bucket standard honda with 200,000 + miles on it.  I wore old shoes into the office and had a few work pairs under my desk. I bought my lunch everyday. I never participated in the secret Santa, candle parties or ridiculously overpriced fundraisers. When my kids were in college I was even cheaper because I wanted them to be as close as debt free as we could manage when they graduated. Today my kids, in their thirties enjoy reporting how they are progressing towards Fi themselves, and how thankful they are to us for giving them a solid base to build on.

I was definitely the outsider, yet few made the connection when I retired at age 52.  They honestly said things like I must have won the lottery as we lived in a nice house, had planned travel etc.

People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. Be thankful you have seen the light and can avoid the toxicity of debt, worthless material accumulation and mindless activities.  Make your life worthwhile and meaningful and you won't be sorry.

I was so touched by your post because I see myself there.   It's good to hear someone understand.  I'm retiring soon and sadly I don't think anyone will  make the connection about me either.  It makes me cry when I listen to coworkers the same age as I am oohing and awing over their "Lottery chances" when it's ticket pool time again and the minimum they need to "win" to retire.   I already accumulated more than their minimum "need to win" just by being frugal.    Why can't people make the connection?   I think I bitch on this forum because deep down it makes me so sad and I want to care about them.

darkadams00

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2014, 08:12:20 PM »
I think the long-term effects of frugal living on lifetime finances are similar to the effects of consistent practice on a musical instrument. My son is frequently congratulated on his "talent," but from early childhood he has never cared to watch more than an hour of TV at a time, never latched onto the video game craze, and rarely kills time on the Internet. But he saved pre-teen dollars for over a year to pay cash for an acoustic guitar that cost $600 that he plays privately almost every day and publicly every week. Most of our friends just look at their kids and say "they're not musically gifted." Nonsense. In personal finance, ongoing and almost unconscious frugal decisions became a way of life that allows for eventual rewards that most folks fail to grasp. You can explain, and they will nod and agree, but they'll still tell others that you were "lucky" or "in the right place at the right time."

 

libertarian4321

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2014, 03:35:08 AM »

instead of having to listen to a long discussions of someone's latest leased BMW and how great it is while everyone ews and ahs about the car or house or motorcycle or whatever new consumer thing someone has gone into debt to buy.

Just needed to vent to a sympathetic audience.  Thanks for listening :-)

Well, if you want to end this conversation quickly, just say something along the lines of "My old car/truck is a POS, but I but I achieved financial independence at age 37 (or whatever)"- that will probably get you some "deer in the headlights" looks.

My experience is that that strategy actually leads to being even more of an outsider.

Yes, it will.  Because being a financially independent millionaire at age 37 isn't "normal."  "Normal" is driving a leased/financed BMW and being in debt up to your eyeballs.

But I guarantee it will end the "bragging" of the braying idiots who "buy" everything on credit.  If you are lucky, one or two of the idiots will ask you how you did it, and you can take the opportunity to change them from "in debt up to the eyeballs" all hat-no cattle financial failures into financially responsible adults.

As to the rest, who cares what they think.  They are idiots. 




libertarian4321

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2014, 03:53:27 AM »
Attagal frugal!

Like you I had decades of derision mostly by my family,, "Frank is so tight, he doesn't know how to enjoy himself blah blah blah"

I discovered in getting a little older that I really didn't care what other people thought and this year the tables have turned.. I.e when we were all sitting around jawing I would drop the fact of "yeah I'm gonna retire in the New year"

Stunned silence.. followed by disbelief followed by how the heck are you gonna do that.

Since then I have had several conversations about saving and investing.

When I was asked what was I buying?... answer.. freedom!

There is a huge re-org/layoffs coming to my ex-colleagues. I feel for them because I hear so many stories of fear "What am I gonna do?"

Of course sadly its too late.. its "what should they have done?"

Just remember the world has gone mad. I recognised that nearly 30 years ago and when it all came crashing down in 2008 I was sitting in my house which I owned outright!

Have faith, educate when they have ears. just say "how nice for you" when they don't..

Frank

Thank you Frank!  I'm inspired by your post.   I enjoyed reading some of your other posts about early retirement.

I'm sitting here crying because I'm so tired from all the crazy non stop meaningless corporate work.  I loved reading your story about early retirement.

How do you handle your health insurance?  That's the one I'm having the most trouble wrapping my head around for early retirement.

The best thing about financial independence is the day you realize you can get fired/laid off and IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.  That is true freedom.

Being able to say "screw it, I don't care" about any "crisis" at work is liberating.  And lets face it, it doesn't really matter what corporate job you do, there is always a "crisis."  Doesn't matter if you are an engineer, scientist, accountant, or waste disposal professional.

Also, I noticed that once I put people on notice that I was working not because I had to, but only because I wanted to, they were far less willing to ask me to do the stupid stuff I hated doing (because they knew I'd refuse to do it, even if they asked).

That doesn't mean I don't do good work, it just means that I screen out the BS, refuse to participate in office politics, won't do the stuff I don't like, and absolutely refuse to work overtime.  I get to set the rules, not my "boss." 

And if they ever do decide to fire me, who cares?  I don't need the money, I'll spend my time volunteering at the local no-kill animal shelter, or flying kites, or contemplating the meaning of life in the Himalayas, whatever...


Silverwood

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2014, 06:14:55 AM »
You guys make me feel so much better about my job. Its nice knowing there are others out there that feel the same way I do.

oldtoyota

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Re: Does anyone else feel "snubbed" for mustacian views?
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2014, 06:43:53 AM »
I was stuck in a conversation with people who would not stop talking about their kids. I found it boring, and I even have a kid. Sometimes, you just have to suck it up and not look for an "attagirl." Just be happy with what you have going on.

Yesterday, I was telling a friend that I get the feeling some people feel sorry for me when they see I live in the less expensive area I do and that I do not drive a fancy car or wear fancy clothing. It's like what a PP said in this thread…just continue knowing that you have this glowing secret. =-)

It's not easy to have a secret though. I can understand why whether we should tell others our plans to keep them a secret comes up so much on this board. An article I read in The Economist stated evidence that keeping secrets tires out our brains, so it might help to find people who share your values and whom you trust to talk to about these things. Or, come here and do that!