The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Bearded Man on February 14, 2016, 09:29:21 AM
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I own a few rentals now in a HCOLA. My dad knows about most of them, except the one I bought recently. I'm wondering if I should keep revealing. He doesn't know the numbers or values, but the more I buy the more obvious that I have a lot of money. After I bought my second house there was some attempt to try to get lifetime financial assistance from me but I didn't entertain it. Still, I want my dad to be proud and see my accomplishments, but not be a target for permanent financial welfare.
I had to stand on my own two feet since 18 while my friends got hand out after handout and are still getting handouts because they still can't make it. I don't feel I need to be a target just because I made it while others get handouts for being failures.
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It depends on who. My parents and siblings? Yes. Anyone else? I stay pretty general. If they started hitting me up for money, I'd probably stop immediately.
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We tell our families and close friends in a vague way, and only really when the opportunity naturally presents itself. So if we are talking about college, we'll mention we are saving already for our baby who was just born a few months ago. When discussing retirement, we might offer that we try to put a lot in our employer 401k and IRA. When we paid off my student loans we happily mentioned it. From each individual conversation one probably would have no clue about our financial situation...but if you add up all the conversations, it becomes clear that we are doing quite well. Properties are tough because they are tangible evidence of wealth. We only own a small house and two used cars, so no one can tell exactly what our finances look like.
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My brother & I had a chat about a year ago, in which I discovered that he also follows the MMM blog/boards. He's the only one that I really share with... We send each other text messages and screenshots of our net worth spreadsheets during exciting times, because neither of us has an SO who is really into it enough to appreciate that stuff. My parents know I'm doing well, but they're doing far better off so no worries there.
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I had to stand on my own two feet since 18 while my friends got hand out after handout and are still getting handouts because they still can't make it. I don't feel I need to be a target just because I made it while others get handouts for being failures.
I totally relate to this. My parents basically said "have a good life" before I graduated high school. My dad owns his business and sets his salary. When I came home for Christmas after working 1.5 years and told him about my first promotion, he told me I was making more than him. I stopped telling him what I made after that.
My mother stole my identity and would probably still try to ride my gravy train if I let her, so I haven't told her one thing about my finances since college when I told her the Cc's she was using were closed (which shocked her; she still doesn't think she did anything wrong).
I'll tell them I'm leaving my job to join the Peace Corps the week before I leave. They may have questions at that point, but they won't get specifics out of me.
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I wouldn't tell your Dad since he was trying to get $. He just doesn't need to know.
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I tell my mom vague things like if I got a promotion but not a specific dollar value. I don't tell anyone else a single thing.
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My parents know but no one else. Definitely not siblings.
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I wouldn't tell your Dad since he was trying to get $. He just doesn't need to know.
This.
It's hard when you want a family member to play a role (proud papa), but in reality, they're going to play a different role (moocher); no offense to your dad. You can't help but want them to be someone else, at least around this stuff. I don't think you ever stop wanting your parents to be proud of you, or wanting to show off and be praised for solid accomplishments.
It may sound weird, but you could try this: either write down or imagine in your head the way you'd want the conversation to go, with dad playing proud papa to perfection. That may be the closest you can come to the way you'd like it to be, without actually risking the disappointment of the mooching response you expect.
Good luck.
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We reveal some, not all and only to certain close family. We had 10 rentals (sold a few) and siblings/close family automatically assumed we were 'rich' and made it known they felt that way. Though we do well, we are hardly rich and what we have is from being ambitious and frugal. We try to make ourselves sound as if we are not financialy well so nobody feels they can ask for money or even expect it from us. Not saying they would, but this way it eliminates that option. We are fairly private people but I would say my parents know the most details about our finances.
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If people ask, I'm very open about everything - what we spend, what we save, what we invest in. I try not to bring it up with certain people, not because I think there will be repercussions, but because I don't want them to feel bad about being a lot older than me with way less money. Most of my family are aware of my blog, where I post very detailed financial information, so it's definitely out there for anyone who wants to poke around at it.
My boyfriend's family is a bit odd in this regard - we tell them even more than my family, but they seem to just not believe it. Despite being told numerous times our salaries, that we save 60%+ of our income (and have for years), have no debt, pay X for rent, Y for food, Z for bills, etc, any time we do something "weird" (downsizing apartments, etc) they ask if we're broke or having financial problems. It's odd.
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They don't really want to hear about it. They're logic is basically "I have always done things this way, and it is working out for me, so why should I change?"
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I don't get specific, as a few other posters have mentioned. Not that my family has ever been looking for handouts, more as a matter of "tact"...I am one of those people raised to feel awkward talking about finances, I've since gotten over it and don't think it's tactless at all to discuss money (or I wouldn't be here :-D), but my family still does so I just act accordingly around them. I'm quite sure I make more than my mom has ever made, and more than my sister and her husband combined. I know they wouldn't hold it against me, but I guess there is some underlying sense of guilt there. I don't think anyone in my family has a clue what I make. It's a little sad now that I'm typing it out...I've pretty much hidden every promotion and job accomplishment from them. All self-imposed I guess.
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Our family on both sides know that we didn't have to worry about money when I quit my job last year, and still don't have to worry about money (at least in the short term) now that DH has quit his, and that once we sell our apartment we are basically FI. We haven't really gone into specific details, though.
This sums up my situation too. It's obvious to anyone who knows me that I don't have to worry about money (except my more spendthrift friends who shake their heads sadly when I don't join them in a "spree" and assume I'm impoverished LOL). I don't try to hide that, but I'm not advertising details either.
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We're pretty open with those relatives who are doing comparably well, which is everyone except FIL and SIL.
With FIL, were vague because he doesn't have a ton and we don't want him to feel bad.
With SIL, its a little of the not feeling bad, a little trying to relate, and a lot of not becoming a target for a handout.
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This subject seems to come up over and over again on MMM. My mother and best friend, they know my finances, and are pretty mustachian. My husband's side of the family, no way in hell. Despite the fact that he was recently left with a $189 net check a week after child support (not late, just the 2 kids are 2 different cases so they don't take each other into consideration, no, we can't do anything about it) his family keeps asking for money for dental work, cars, car insurance or to title and insure cars because their license is revoked, a new roof, other home repairs, etc. But if you try to help with a budget the cable TV is a necessity. We should be out of debt completely including the mortgage in 6 1/2 years, and I will still be driving my rusty farm truck and telling them how broke I am.
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I graduated law school and clerked at a law firm for three months on a $2,000 (total) stipend. In other words, I was making $666/month and was barely scraping by.
The firm then offered me a full time position. It's the best firm in town and I was absolutely ecstatic. Told my twin brother, happy for me. Told my dad, happy for me. Told my girlfriend, happy for me.
When I told my mom (who is bad with money), she congratulated me but almost immediately asked how much I was going to make. I said "enough." She kept pressing and I was blown away that she was so worried about this number instead of being happy for me. She then had all these conversations with family members about how this was like raising me my whole life and then "not letting her see the scoreboard."
Honestly, I'm still pissed off about this more than a year later. I basically won't be sharing any sort of details regarding a promotion or anything with her (unless I'm named partner).
Not surprisingly, my older brother, who I've posted about before and who is even worse with money than my mom, always has similar comments. I tried to help him with his budget and he turned it around with "you don't understand because you make [insert number he and my mom completely guessed]."
Also, when I told him that I bought an engagement ring for my girlfriend, he wouldn't shut up with his questions. "How many karats?" Told him "enough to make her happy." "How much did you pay for it?" Told him "enough that she'd be happy with it but not mad at me for spending too much." "Man that's nice, bet you paid $4-5 grand for that."
So tiring. I basically don't tell them anything. Ever. And don't intend to change that.
So I agree with others: you can only really share with people who are of like mindsets or otherwise in similar financial conditions.
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Yes. We're very open about finances.
And pretty much everything else society considers "taboo" to discuss.
We find it much more enjoyable to live that way, personally.
Do what makes life best for you. :)
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Not really. My mom knows I'm working hard to invest and build wealth. She and I have have some of the same investment interests, so we talk about that quite a bit and I learn a lot from her.
But anyone else? No, I don't tell them anything. With several relatives, if they knew they would either (a) ask for a "loan" or (b) propose a business deal where I'd be the only one putting up funds. No thank you.
I live in a small house, blue-collar neighborhood and still live like I did during grad school. I act as if my money situation hasn't changed, so on the outside, no one's going to hit me up for money because I don't look like I have any. The entire family knows I work for the government and of course as the reputation goes, we don't earn much. As MMMs know, it's not what you earn, it's what you keep.
NDQ
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i'm open about everything in my life ... probably to a fault. but i dont really care. its who i am and how i relay information.
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I talk in fairly great detail with my Dad, because he seems interested and I trust him. I would do same with Mom, but she doesn't seem as interested in the topic. The in-laws get no details from me, for a variety of reasons.
One person I tell nothing to any more is my drug-addict sister - even if she asks directly she doesn't get anything more than a "we do OK" answer from me.
With friends and most of my extended family, I generally try not to bring finances up, but will discuss details if it has come up and seems appropriate.
Then I post way too many details of many aspects of my life to a bunch of strangers on the internet, so not being consistent at all ;)
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Absolutely not, it would destroy our relationships with our extended family. Mrs Axe and I both have parents living near the edge of financial ruin. Mrs Axe's family is harder to justify because they made such poor choices. But if any of them knew what we actually make, we'd get 10x the asks, and it's hard enough to say no as it is.
The only person I've let into my circle a bit is my best friend from childhood, whom I've known since we were 5. He recently divorced, remarried a woman 15 years younger, and plans to start family 2.0 with her. He's happy, but he will never get to retire. He will be in his 70s when his new kids graduate from college. Part of this journey was making sure he was going into it with his eyes wide open about his path... and I shared a bit of mine with him.
Like the other posters said, I think it's best to fly under the radar, keep your mouth shut and let other people make assumptions about what you're worth.
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My old man and I swap stories. He is more of a "Millionaire Next Door" kind of guy. He did very well with his money and we often talk about different investments and I often go to him for advice. Like someone else said no one else in my family has shown interest - outside of a few people who got pretty upside down in debt. Only my Dad really knows what kind of numbers we are dealing with.
Funny story - I am recently married and as a part of that process I had to "disclose" my financial standing for the pre-nup. Word spread within my wife's family and they always want to talk to me about their finances and asking for guidance. That can get pretty awkward.
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Funny story - I am recently married and as a part of that process I had to "disclose" my financial standing for the pre-nup. Word spread within my wife's family and they always want to talk to me about their finances and asking for guidance. That can get pretty awkward.
At least they're asking for guidance and not a handout - means they likely want to do better.
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My mom knows everything financial about me. I'm really where I am right now because of her, so no need to hide anything. She helped me paint and fix up my last rental. She's actually one of my business partners and we get along great in the business sense. As mother/daughter, it's terrible, but I've come to terms with it.
If I were in your shoes, I'd be hesitant to reveal any more. Like the previous poster mentioned... it's one thing if he's asking for guidance, but quite another if he asks you straight up for money...
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Parents, yes. Otherwise, no.
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What we found is that some people are happy for you and some are jealous. WE did not retire early by MM standards at ages 53 and 58 but a few of our friends were very jealous of our pensions even though we made it clear for years that was why we stayed at our jobs. During those years they would say "You should be self-employed like we are"- "We are so happy with our work & never want to retire." Fast forward 20 years later and they will never retire even at age 70 now. Now they want to of course. One couple left me a long message at work telling me not to retire and that selling our big house and paying cash for a small one was a big mistake. It was key to our plan and something we always planned to do. Then they inherited $ and couldn't sell their old house (underwater) but they put a down payment on a huge fancy home. Why do 2 old people need 2700sq ft? Anyways we lost 2 friendships that were long term with 2 different couples but I got so sick of hearing what we were doing wrong and finally dumped them. It waws really bizarre and I was shocked. Most of our friends were happy for us.
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We share our FIRE plans and our progress with family and friends (and, without names attached, to the entire world on the blog). There are a few family members with whom we don't discuss specific dollar amounts, because we have passing concerns about how they might try to exploit that info. Otherwise, we're basically an open book.
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Not really, I don't see why they need to (or would even want to) know the details. I have mentioned a few semi-specifics to my parents, and since they loaned us the money to pay off our bank mortgage (we pay them interest and have an official lien), they are privy to how much we owe on our house and the terms of the loan of course. They are fairly mustachian, and I know it is relief to them that they don't need to worry about my financial situation. That's the main reason I've shared as much as I have (mostly details about how much we've paid off on our HELOC in the last 2 years, the balance of which was from when we paid of the mortgage and did the family re-fi.) I wanted them to know DH and I are more than okay, and that they don't need to worry about us, and that they should spend whatever they want of what they have (though they just aren't wired that way) rather than trying to save it to create a larger inheritance, because I don't need that (and neither does my sibling). They have friends who kids are always broke or living right on the edge, and they see how much stress that creates, and I know they are grateful not to have that worry.
I haven't really shared details with anyone else.
It's not really secrecy so much as it is something that I can't understand why I'd share, unless the subject came up and specifics were called for. I also don't share how often I take a shit or what I buy at the grocery store or many other things, simply because it seems odd. Why would my friends care how much I have in the bank? I've mentioned that DH and I are hoping to retire early. No one asked for details, so I left it at that. If they did ask, I'd provide some generalities and if the conversation continued, I might get more specific as needed.
With the other side of the family, the lack of details might also have something to do with concerns over hands-out. In those cases, even if they did ask and if the details did seem relevant to the conversation, I would try to avoid disclosing specifics.
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My dad, yes. He's always been the one good with money, and he's retiring soon (not MMM-early, but still earlier than social security kicks in). My mom...she's a spendypants and very into keeping up with the Joneses, in her country club neighborhood.
So when I tell dad I'm going to get rid of my brand new car and go to a beater or a bike, he says "great plan!" When I tell mom, she first worries I'm having money problems, then says how I earned that car, and I make good money, so I can't get rid of it. Mom's not going to hear things like that anymore.
Dad knows how much we're putting away for retirement (this year we'll max one of the 401ks, and we're paying tuition out of pocket while overpaying the mortgage to ditch PMI), and quickly went "hang on, you're setting yourself up to retire early!" Told him "yep, around age 40." Mom has only heard that stuff because I needed to reassure her after she thought I ran out of money because the joint account she and I had from when I was in college was empty. "No, mom, it's just that I'm married now, and so my husband and I are sharing a bank account at a different bank."
We both try to hint to our younger siblings about the importance of saving for retirement. My husband's parents know the early retirement goal, but none of our siblings do, though I've mentioned MMM on Facebook before. Mom knows my salary, because she's a worry-wart and this is a way to keep her calm. Dad doesn't, just trusts that he taught me well enough when I was helping him keep the books for one of his businesses.
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its awkward because I work for my dad, I kept him in the loop the few times when I wanted to spend big money on travel ,showing that I could easily afford it.
They definitely spend more than I do though...they're always encouraging me to spend more. I'm not sure they know what I have now, but they know that I liquidated my real estate and they know what they are paying me in salary.
My sister doesn't know my specifics, but again, she knows I liquidated real estate. My sister usually comss to me with questions and I redirect her to some of the lady financial bloggers..I worry that she is focusing too much on saving because she literally lives the apartment less than I do.
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I'd be completely honest with my family (parents, grandparent, siblings) if they asked, because they would NEVER ask me for money, and if they did, I would never say "yes." I'd love to talk to them about it because I think it could actually help them to make some better money decisions. I would NEVER talk about it with my in-laws because they are not only financial disasters, but they also wouldn't hesitate to ask hubs for money if they truly understood how much extra money we have.
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I talk with my parents openly about finances (including hard numbers), especially my dad, as we see eye to eye on most things and have a "agree to disagree" stance on anything we don't. My dad taught me how to do my taxes by hand after all. Likewise with my brother, we share our finances for the sake of exchanging information so we both can learn (mortgages/real estate/business/taxes/investing/etc.).
I talk openly about finances with my friends as well, but just in concepts not hard numbers.
My girlfriend and I share a lot of financial information, though not yet on the scale as I do with my family. Fortunately she's fairly frugal by default (and necessity). Her family, on the other hand, I expect I will never share that type of information with.
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My parents and inlaws know we save a lot. They don't know our exact numbers (heck even I don't most of the time!). But the amount of conversations I have had with them regarding retirement types of funds, investments, and overall management means they are both very aware I am VERY financially literate.
Both parents are in financial situations where they will be fine in retirement, unless they completely implode. Which is a wonderful thing to think about and a huge blessing compared to a lot of other folks.
It's our siblings that are the "problems" so to speak. Most of them have much worse attitudes or at least actions with respect to money than we do. While it matters less now when we are young, over the next few decades our difference in attitude will almost assuredly change our respective net worths. I don't know how those relationships would be affected if they knew our net worth (especially in the future...), but I am not too eager to find out.
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Growing up I was well aware that we were tight on money so discussions with my parents on money was kept to a minimum for most of my life. Once I had my first job I was responsible for all of my purchases other than rent/food until I finished whatever schooling I wanted to do.
This changed after I got married. The situation was exactly the opposite, my wife's parents had very stable careers, did the legwork to get all of the increments and max out all pensions, etc. In her family they talked openly about money to a fault. I married in to this and as a result I had/have very probing questions related to finances (even when we were dating it was not taboo at all). This has somewhat carried over to my family where I am now more comfortable talking to them about finances. It's been eye opening. There will be some challenges for them going in to the retirement years.
My siblings and I are thankfully all doing well so no money issues have come up.
In general though with friends and coworkers I keep things light. Talk about goals and trying to maximize savings and that I'm debt adverse. I don't have all that much to brag about yet but I'm working on it and compared to many people I know I'm in a much better position (no debt, high savings rate, enjoying life).
EcoCanuck
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Yes, though not specifics about amounts. I will be FI in my mid-40s, which kind of blows their minds a bit.
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Yes, though not specifics about amounts. I will be FI in my mid-40s, which kind of blows their minds a bit.
All my DW's and my parents have passed away except her father. He spent Christmas with us, and at one point he asked, "what were you doing today", and I said, "each fortnight, I work out our budget and how are finances are", he said he'd never paid much attention to such things and so I told him about the Millionaire next door book, and said "don't you know that millionaires spend several hours looking at finances, in comparison to non-millionaires who only average a few minutes at most each week", which led to him saying "oh.. so you want to be a millionaire", which led to me not really saying anything, if you add together my superfunds, saving and other assets (most of which I can't access yet), my DW and I already are, but that seemed a very uncomfortable thing to say.
Saving and building investments is just so foreign to so many people.
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My family is pretty non-materialistic and wouldn't come after me for spare cash unless they were totally f'd, in which case I would be offering help anyway. So I trust them with details, but I don't share much because 2/3 of my immediate family are in perpetually dire straits and it seems crass to talk about how great we're doing. Occasionally I'll make DINK jokes while offering to pay more than my exact proportionate share of something, like a shared gift, but that's about it.
I do share general things - that I'm building a substantial investment portfolio, that I'm really excited about it, enjoying myself, and that it will enable us to spend more time near most of them, and possibly buy property in the area.
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I had a conversation with a friend from college the other day. We've always been relatively open about finances. Now I'm house shopping, and she was surprised at the prices of the homes I was looking at. (OK, so maybe contrary to what you're thinking, I'm looking at more expensive homes than she expected.) Her husband and her, combined, make pretty much what my wife and I make. But when I told her how much I was adding to my savings each month, and that this would only decrease our budget a few hundred from renting, she was blown away. We're saving about ten times as much as she guessed! It was just such a surprise to her that you could make this income, and not spend most of it. I explained my budget, and she came around to that, but she's a parent, and I am not, so the parting thought was that kids will change all that. I can't really say - I won't try to predict the future. But I know I'll make careful, educated choices when it comes to that!
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Iʻll tell people that Iʻm trying to pay off debt, but I donʻt really talk specifics. Once I talk about debt, people tend to assume the worst and generally leave me alone about money.
Iʻm still in the early stages of my FIRE journey, but Iʻve learned from my travel hacking experience to be very careful about who you tell about your accomplishments, especially if theyʻre out of the box. I started a few years ago, and have been going on 2-3 international trips a year ever since. At first I was telling everyone who would listen about all of my upcoming trips, but a handful of snarky comments later, I only tell a few. People used it as an opening to tell me how stupid, sleazy, wasteful, etc I am. I was working as an assistant at a law firm at the time (for only $24k net) and my dad responded to my excitement over my upcoming trips with "well, I guess theyʻre paying secretaries a lot these days".
If youʻre doing something cool/awesome/extraordinary that other people think is impossible, they tend to think you had it handed to you somehow. Somehow you donʻt deserve this, so they have a right to bring you down about it. People just see my vacation pics on instagram, not the hours spent researching, planning, and strategizing to make them happen. Or the turned down happy hour invitations, the beater I drive around, or the fact that all of my jeans are over 5 years old.
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Iʻm still in the early stages of my FIRE journey, but Iʻve learned from my travel hacking experience to be very careful about who you tell about your accomplishments, especially if theyʻre out of the box. I started a few years ago, and have been going on 2-3 international trips a year ever since. At first I was telling everyone who would listen about all of my upcoming trips, but a handful of snarky comments later, I only tell a few. People used it as an opening to tell me how stupid, sleazy, wasteful, etc I am. I was working as an assistant at a law firm at the time (for only $24k net) and my dad responded to my excitement over my upcoming trips with "well, I guess theyʻre paying secretaries a lot these days".
Wow, so rude of them, who needs enemies.
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tl;dr - it depends
With people in the MMM world i try to be very transparent, otherwise, I am typically pretty vague. I tell a good friend of mine i'm going to retire before i'm 50 and he simply asks if i'm on track, i say yes, he says awesome, and that is the end of that. he was always super frugal growing up to the point where we would always give him a hard time about it. he is, and will continue to be, fine financially. maybe not retiring early, but certainly not in any trouble.
I give more specifics to another friend of mine, but usually only if discussions turns to finances. i typically reveal how much i'm spending, saving, and putting towards debt reduction. he is the same as the friend above, but probably a bit more spendy. I share more detail with him because he is competitive and i know if i do he will subconsciously want to do better with their spending.
I try to avoid revealing my savings to my sister, but i do reveal my spending. she is in a very transitional phase of life and doesnt make a lot of money, so i dont want to discourage her with my savings but i also want to show that she has plenty of room to reduce her spending and bump her savings up.
mom and dad never really ask specifics so i don't reveal anything. Mom will ask if i'm doing ok from time to time but that is about it. I've told her countless times i'm retiring early, which is being laughed off less and less. We discuss retirement and how much they'd need. I'm pretty sure they just have a small nest egg, but between that, my dad's pension, an annuity, and SS, i hope they'll be ok.
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I had a conversation with a friend from college the other day. We've always been relatively open about finances. Now I'm house shopping, and she was surprised at the prices of the homes I was looking at. (OK, so maybe contrary to what you're thinking, I'm looking at more expensive homes than she expected.) Her husband and her, combined, make pretty much what my wife and I make. But when I told her how much I was adding to my savings each month, and that this would only decrease our budget a few hundred from renting, she was blown away. We're saving about ten times as much as she guessed! It was just such a surprise to her that you could make this income, and not spend most of it. I explained my budget, and she came around to that, but she's a parent, and I am not, so the parting thought was that kids will change all that. I can't really say - I won't try to predict the future. But I know I'll make careful, educated choices when it comes to that!
It really seems like most people are looking for an excuse to not think too hard about their current habits. Here you are having this conversation about actual numbers, forcing her to re-evaluate her decisions, until she conveniently decides (like so many) that the existence of a third (or more) human being under the same roof magically invalidates math. *POOF* no more thinking required. Back to somebody-else's-fault syndrome.
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I had a conversation with a friend from college the other day. We've always been relatively open about finances. Now I'm house shopping, and she was surprised at the prices of the homes I was looking at. (OK, so maybe contrary to what you're thinking, I'm looking at more expensive homes than she expected.) Her husband and her, combined, make pretty much what my wife and I make. But when I told her how much I was adding to my savings each month, and that this would only decrease our budget a few hundred from renting, she was blown away. We're saving about ten times as much as she guessed! It was just such a surprise to her that you could make this income, and not spend most of it. I explained my budget, and she came around to that, but she's a parent, and I am not, so the parting thought was that kids will change all that. I can't really say - I won't try to predict the future. But I know I'll make careful, educated choices when it comes to that!
It really seems like most people are looking for an excuse to not think too hard about their current habits. Here you are having this conversation about actual numbers, forcing her to re-evaluate her decisions, until she conveniently decides (like so many) that the existence of a third (or more) human being under the same roof magically invalidates math. *POOF* no more thinking required. Back to somebody-else's-fault syndrome.
agreed. it is like people think adding 1 person means a proportional increase in expenses. Example: expenses are $1000
1 person = $1000
2 people = $2000
3 people = $3000
just no...it doesnt have to be that way...
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Ha yes - obviously adding a kid and possibly daycare is different from combining households, but when my wife and I moved in together, we immediately started saving a ton more money. So even if 1p = $1k and 2p = $2k, 2p in 1h = $1.5k or $1.2k... so 3p in 1h = $1.4k?? (The numbers are made up and the letters don't mean anything.)
The moral of the story is... don't lease $35k SUVs (they, like me, own three cars... the big difference is two of theirs are late model SUVs. Actually they own more than three but I'm ignoring his project cars to be nice :) I do, after all, own a 10 year old sports car on the side.) Also you don't need a big shopping budget.
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We were pretty open about paying off the student loan debt--we celebrated on Facebook when it happened, and took a big trip the next year, so I'm sure people figured out that we were doing "okay," but I don't tell people our exact amount of savings. I have told my parents that we plan to retire in our 50s (we'll do it earlier if the stash is doing well), and that the money we were throwing at debt is now being saved. My sister also knows more specifics, because we're close and she asks my advice on finances pretty regularly (she actually calls me her financial planner, she's asked me for so much advice). DH's family doesn't know specifics, but they know about the travel and that we're okay. We don't talk specific numbers.
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We've let people know that we finally got debt-free. I'm sure they suspect that we're doing pretty well otherwise, but I don't want to talk about net worth and other similar goals. I figure it sounds too braggy.
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My mother is a tax prepare and therefore completes my taxes for free so she knows almost everything. I started contributing to a 401k (very small amounts) when I was 21 years old and still in college. I have heard for the last 10+ years that she is just so blown away that I put such a priority on retirement at my young age. I don't foresee my parents hitting me up for money down the road so for now it is okay that she knows so much.
My bothers on the other hand enjoyed being over paid for the last decade but both got laid off last year and are now/still struggling, all they know is that we pay our bills on time. For most of my adult life we have made a LOT less than them so they are accustomed to me saying "I am sorry, that is not in our budget." I now have to listen to them talk about how they would not take a job for $x/year, how does anybody live off of that. Usually it is a dollar amount not too far off of what I make.
Due to my bothers currently concerns, my parents are very worried about how the kids are doing financially but generally the worry is focused on the boys and I usually hear "I am so glad we don't have to worry about you too."
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I'm pretty open with my income, saving strategy, and financial strategy with my parents. Didn't share all the details. But then I posted a Reader Case Study with all the info on this forum and my mom found it so I guess cats out of the bag haha. Not that I'm worried, I really tell my mom everything.
My husbands mom does our taxes (accountant for HR Block) so she knows everything too.
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agreed. it is like people think adding 1 person means a proportional increase in expenses. Example: expenses are $1000
1 person = $1000
2 people = $2000
3 people = $3000
just no...it doesnt have to be that way...
It's even worse than that with most people, if you ask me. In the above anecdote, she didn't just say having kids meant factoring more costs into the calculations, she brought them up as her excuse for giving up on calculating. And I guarantee my lack of children would be the first thing brought up if I discussed finances with CWs. Every time the subject comes up, you hear sweeping generalizations like "kids change everything", when, they really just add variables to the equation.
But the truth is, some people raise healthy and happy children for less than we spend on our dogs and cat. Yet somehow there's this pervasive myth that disposable income vanishes at conception and you're now stuck working till 70. edit: My theory is, this is true if you try to indulge in all the same stuff after kids as you did before (did it as a stepdad, stayed broke, can honestly say it contributed to our failure), but otherwise totally dependent on choices. It's the "foregone conclusion" shit that irks me the most.
One of my favorite CWs, around my age, was talking the other day about how he hopes to be able to retire in his 60s (~25 years from now). I don't know if he'd play the kid card in this discussion, but I know he flew out to Colorado to snowboard all week and doesn't save beyond the 5% for full TSP match. I'm jealous as hell (of the trip) but I'll probably FIRE next year, and I'll spend a month in CO if I want. Timing and priorities, c'est la vie.
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DH and I have always lived frugally, with the goal of early retirement. Among family and some long-time friends, we had a reputation as cheapskates -- because we did things like take our lunches to work, buy thrift-store clothing and repair instead of replace items. When we built our retirement home three years before FIRE, most of the people we knew thought we had lost our minds. How could we afford to do such a thing? At that time we revealed our plan to retire in three years. No one believed us. DH's business partner, a man up to his eyeballs in debt, refused to believe it right up until the day DH signed the papers to sell his interest in the business. For the first year post-fire our parents were sure we would be reduced to eating cat food because of our foolish mistake. Three years later, we still have friends and family members who think we must be 'poor' (despite our very nice house and paid-for vehicles, etc.) because we prefer to eat in instead of out, we still pack lunches when we go skiing, and we prefer camping vacations to European jaunts. In some ways, this is frustrating; on the other hand we never have to worry about them asking for money.
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When I walked away from what everyone else thought was a great job (it did PAY great, I'll give it that) and hinted strongly that I now considered myself retired at 42....well, let's just say I pretty much had to share certain "numbers" to ease the worry of some close family members. Didn't feel comfortable doing it though.
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Nope. Except in general terms. Not that we would have much in the way of accomplishments to talk about. Siblings on both sides are in way better job situations than us and, sadly, way more debt. And we are not paragons of Mustachian badassity by any stretch (working on it). The only thing we have told anyone, when directly asked, is that the 5 months of involuntary unemployment didn't put us into bankruptcy (cue massive confusion on the listener's part); we can survive another bout of that if we had to and that our current pathetic combined incomes would allow us to hold on until full-age retirement. Of course, holding out working for peanuts until we are 65-67 is not good enough. But, other than my parents, who are doing great, nobody on either side of the family can conceive of anything other than 9-5 until you die...and buying bigger houses/new cars every few years on credit as a way to leverage wealth (pauses to scratch head...never have figured out that thought process). And most of our friends have to pay down their maxed-out credit cards if they need to take a business trip and wait for reimbursement. Everyone thought we were destitute before the job losses started since we were still driving our old, high mileage cars etc. and that was when we were relatively spendypants. Just by not living paycheck to paycheck, we are considered weirdos in our circles. Sigh... I'm so glad this forum exists so we can, at least electronically, interact with others who aren't interested in spending every dime they earn.
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When I mentioned to spouse's older sister, who is comfortably retired, that we were probably within a few years of retirement, she was astonished. I mentioned a) no kids, b) good jobs in IT, and c) generally frugal lifestyle. I don't think she'll believe it until she sees it. I'm not sure I will either; it's both exciting and scary, and we're not quite there yet.
I did feel cautious about talking in any more detail or depth, just because she seemed so startled already. I think she was pleased, though, knowing that spouse's future looks bright.
I try not to geek out too hard about money and numbers around my friends, since so many people are scared of both. I don't want to come across as evangelistic or pushy. I do have one friend I am slowly grooming to talk more about money, investing, compound interest, etc. She is terrified but open to it, as long as I put it in terms of bears and salmon instead of people and dollars, because otherwise her brain shuts down in panic. I know that once she gets past the fear, she'll be happier when she understands how things work a little more clearly. Knowledge is power.
There are some family members I would not tell about our financial picture. It would either be awkward or lead to mooching attempts.
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I don't tell my family anything about my finances.
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When I told my mom (who is bad with money), she congratulated me but almost immediately asked how much I was going to make. I said "enough." She kept pressing and I was blown away that she was so worried about this number instead of being happy for me. She then had all these conversations with family members about how this was like raising me my whole life and then "not letting her see the scoreboard."
Honestly, I'm still pissed off about this more than a year later. I basically won't be sharing any sort of details regarding a promotion or anything with her (unless I'm named partner).
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I have similar exchanges with my mother. Anytime my finances or job-related stuff comes up, she demands to know details: "How much are they paying you? What percent raise did you get?" etc., critiques whatever promotion/benefits I got, and gets mad when I won't give specific numbers. Then out come the sarcastic hurtful comments (judgmental comments that she also makes on the rare occasions it comes up that I've spent money on a specific thing, like travel).
I have seen her literally throw a tantrum when I won't divulge these details, but I feel I have good reason not to. The first time I ever saved up a significant sum of money, she found out and allocated it to her own needs, insisting that I give it to her. In retrospect this wound up having a far-reaching effect on the course of my life, since I'd earmarked the savings for a job-related move and had to find employment close to home instead. She then became irate when I went to a bank on my own and set up my own checking account as soon as I got that first full-time job--because she wanted my paycheck to go into our joint account.
I was 19 when all that happened, and obviously I still have issues! Issues that mean I don't tell her any details if I can possibly avoid it since I feel like she'd start asking me for money--she seems determined to live beyond her means and this has been the case as long as I can remember. I dread that she will hit me up for money eventually anyway, so I'm hoping by saying less now, and tying up all my spare $$ in retirement accounts, I can postpone that as long as possible. Luckily she wants me to save for retirement, so if asked I do tell her that I'm doing that--just not the details of how much, and not about how I have FI as a goal.
... And I guarantee my lack of children would be the first thing brought up if I discussed finances with CWs. Every time the subject comes up, you hear sweeping generalizations like "kids change everything", when, they really just add variables to the equation.
But the truth is, some people raise healthy and happy children for less than we spend on our dogs and cat. Yet somehow there's this pervasive myth that disposable income vanishes at conception and you're now stuck working till 70. edit: My theory is, this is true if you try to indulge in all the same stuff after kids as you did before (did it as a stepdad, stayed broke, can honestly say it contributed to our failure), but otherwise totally dependent on choices. It's the "foregone conclusion" shit that irks me the most. ...
I don't have kids and don't plan to, something I've talked about with my closest friends. When I first discovered MMM and made changes to my savings, I told a couple of those close friends about my goal to save lots and retire relatively early. One of them immediately said, rather meanly, "Oh, so this is why you don't want kids, because they're too expensive!" I can honestly say that the potential cost of kids did not even REMOTELY enter my kid-decision-making process, yet there was suddenly no convincing this friend that money was not my guiding reason for choosing to be childless. Ugh.
I don't talk about FIRE with anyone but my partner now, who is already pretty mustachian and totally supports my goals.
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I have seen her literally throw a tantrum when I won't divulge these details, but I feel I have good reason not to. The first time I ever saved up a significant sum of money, she found out and allocated it to her own needs, insisting that I give it to her. In retrospect this wound up having a far-reaching effect on the course of my life, since I'd earmarked the savings for a job-related move and had to find employment close to home instead. She then became irate when I went to a bank on my own and set up my own checking account as soon as I got that first full-time job--because she wanted my paycheck to go into our joint account.
WOW! I'd be leery too! She'd still be casually appropriating your earnings at will if you hadn't drawn that line, most likely.
Mine has never demanded anything from me, but has needed minor help here and there, which I gladly gave. I sometimes find myself surprised when she pays me back because I don't even explicitly ask, but it illustrates how she feels about things.
I don't have kids and don't plan to, something I've talked about with my closest friends. When I first discovered MMM and made changes to my savings, I told a couple of those close friends about my goal to save lots and retire relatively early. One of them immediately said, rather meanly, "Oh, so this is why you don't want kids, because they're too expensive!" I can honestly say that the potential cost of kids did not even REMOTELY enter my kid-decision-making process, yet there was suddenly no convincing this friend that money was not my guiding reason for choosing to be childless. Ugh.
I don't talk about FIRE with anyone but my partner now, who is already pretty mustachian and totally supports my goals.
Yeah, I made what I would refer to as an indefinite postponement of any procreation plans somewhere around 2001, and only got serious about frugality a couple of years ago. During my engagement to DW we had some, shall we say, dramatic discussions, mostly because she started out our relationship with a lot of talk about not reproducing and then had some very strong second thoughts when we got serious - much to my consternation. I'm not opposed per se, but there are aspects of our lives that don't square with it, just yet. Anywho, we got to a relative meeting of the minds and agreed to let it ride for now. When we FIRE (ish) she'll still only be 33 or 34 so it's not like the door is shut... it's just low on the list and not necessarily moving up in time to happen.
For now, we're gonna play aunt and uncle and think about things for a while. If we decide we want kids after an age where we should be reproducing, foster or adoption is always an option.
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I don't hide that we've started a rental property business. I was careful to let co-workers know that the sum total cost of our (then) home and 3 rental properties was less than almost all houses that co-workers put up for sale on the bulletin board at work.
So, anyone who is paying attention would know that I have some money saved (or I wouldn't be buying extra houses), but not how much.
I mention to people about how to invest in the market the MMM way because it could help them. Anyone paying attention would figure out I have some money to invest, but again, I don't discuss how much.
I mentioned to my mom a couple of years ago that I was planning to retire from my day job and make art full time. She thought I was going nuts! So I sat down with her and set out the plan. Once she realized I wasn't having a mid-life crisis and that I had actually thought this all through, and that the numbers would support it, she was very supportive. That was made easier because she and my dad had always saved and, though she really didn't take an active hand in it, my dad had always invested and kept her informed of what he was doing. So she was familiar with the concepts and knew they would work.
It was actually kind of nice because it gave us both something to talk about that we were both interested in.
A few of my very close friends know I'm planning on retiring in about a year. I've explained the general plan but not the full details.
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I haven't asked for money from my parents for years now. My mom has borrowed money from me. Not sure what my dad thinks. I feel like he thinks I am reckless with my money but don't know for sure. I told him once that I was trying to pay off my student loans and he wanted to know why when the interest rates are so low. My brother probably knows more about my financial situation than any one. He knows roughly how much I make and that i'm trying to pay my student loans off before I get married, buy a house, etc. Sadly my mom is probably the one person I wouldn't want knowing how much I have saved. I mean it's not really impressive but enough that she would probably ask for more handouts.
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I tell parents enough so that they don't need to worry about me, siblings enough so that they know they can come to me with questions about diy, budgets, pensions etc. Friends know that I like to mess around with credit card bonuses and diy but they don't necessarily put it down to finances.
I dislike how much SO tells MILs and SIL about our finances - they are in permanent money crisis and we gave them money before which was due to be paid back but never was. I think that saying too much to them encourages them to ask for more, even though SIL now earns more than us.
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It's even worse than that with most people, if you ask me. In the above anecdote, she didn't just say having kids meant factoring more costs into the calculations, she brought them up as her excuse for giving up on calculating. And I guarantee my lack of children would be the first thing brought up if I discussed finances with CWs. Every time the subject comes up, you hear sweeping generalizations like "kids change everything", when, they really just add variables to the equation.
But the truth is, some people raise healthy and happy children for less than we spend on our dogs and cat. Yet somehow there's this pervasive myth that disposable income vanishes at conception and you're now stuck working till 70. edit: My theory is, this is true if you try to indulge in all the same stuff after kids as you did before (did it as a stepdad, stayed broke, can honestly say it contributed to our failure), but otherwise totally dependent on choices. It's the "foregone conclusion" shit that irks me the most.
Kids are inherently financially risky, even if you are frugal and don't blow money on toys and material goods. For example, the cheapest kids are completely healthy, have no developmental or learning problems, do well in regular public schools (or homeschool), don't have any allergies or special dietary restrictions, and if they want to go to college either get scholarships or manage to find part time work that pays enough to defray a significant amount of tuition. That's alot of variables to bank on. Even if you luck out and manage to have kids like this, there is still the added expense of feeding more people, clothing more people, paying for routine healthcare for more people. And of course, many (if not most) parents would like to help at least a little bit with college. All of these are the bare minimums, before you even get to frugally adding in a sport here or there, or maybe a modest family vacation each year (things even mustachians would be hardpressed to consider wasteful). So yes, the cost of raising kids is dependent on choices - but most of those choices are not really choices at all, they're just the cost of being a responsible parent who makes sure the kids are well fed, clothed, kept healthy, and educated appropriately.
I have a four month old right now - we NEVER buy her anything and all of her items were given to us through our baby shower or as hand-me-downs. We still spend 100 a month on formula (required due to inability to breastfeed) and diapers alone (and we cloth diaper most of the time!). She was hospitalized for some issues after birth too. We are only four months in, and we have easily spent 1200 on just keeping her fed and healthy.
Before I became a parent, I also thought a lot of the kid expenses were just the result of overindulgence or wasteful spending. Now I see, like with most things, a big part of it is just luck and you can't really control much of it.
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Only my wife knows about my accomplishments, which maybe small in comparison with the rest of the MMM community, but I think at the moment, I am the wealthiest person in my family, and I am only 32.
I am a millionaire in the country I was born in, and in my wife's country, and I have no loans except my mortgage. Its kind of a big deal in my family to be this way, but no one has a clue.
I just don't think its a good idea to tell them. As far as they are concerned, I am living without being a burden to them, and they don't have to send me any money, and they are happy.
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My Dad:Great with finances, is generally frugal, and retired early. I discuss a lot of concepts with him but leave specifics on expenses, savings, 401k contribution rates to percentages. He knew my starting salary out of college but nothing in detail since them, and he doesn't ask. I told him the minute I paid off all student loans since he was a co-signer.
My Mom: Financially illiterate so I don't share anything. She's been essentially retired since age 50 though through my dad's good planning.
My Sister: I try not to share anything. She overshares with me. I know her and her husband probably make twice as much as me, but she still complains to me about money issues. She exaggerates a lot and her husband is a smart guy with good financial sense, so I don't take her too seriously. I do throw in a few sarcastic remarks like a good younger brother should.
My father-in-law: I share nothing and he doesn't ask. He's been laid off a few times over the years and probably spends half of what he makes on alcohol and cigarettes which is sad. I think I make a lot more than him and don't care to bring it up at all. He does tell my wife privately that we're "doing things right" and how proud he is that she is able to stay home with the kids.
My mother-in-law: This is where it gets fun. We tell her mostly nothing and it drives her crazy. She makes little digs or comments fishing for info, especially when I'm not around. She seems to think I make 3 times what I actually do. How else could we afford a nice house in a nice neighborhood on only one salary? My wife tells her a few nuggets just for fun. She almost fell to the floor when she heard I had a $1 million life insurance policy. She knows we put 20% down on a nice house and doesn't understand how anyone could have so much cash. She typically starts any sentence talking about someone with "it must be nice." She'll never retire because they spend beyond their means and they've constantly borrowed against the house. She doesn't ask for handouts and never would, but it's annoying when someone constantly sees themselves as the victim with no blame for the situation they're in.
Wife's Sisters: They're just starting out in their careers and are still trying to establish themselves and build positive net worth. We talk openly with them about budgeting and long term planning because it's helpful to them, but we don't discuss our numbers.
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Before I became a parent, I also thought a lot of the kid expenses were just the result of overindulgence or wasteful spending. Now I see, like with most things, a big part of it is just luck and you can't really control much of it.
Right, but even if your luck sucks, you can still do math. This is fundamentally no different from rejecting Complainypants excuses about riding bicycles or modifying climate control habits. Yes, I realize we all face unique challenges. The problem is not in being unable to use 100% of the lifehacks that others have come up with. The problem is in taking one single challenge or set of challenges as an excuse for not trying, not doing everything you can with what you do have, or failing to even attempt to optimize by crunching some numbers to find low-hanging fruit.
I freely admit that it's easier for me to achieve a ridiculous SR and retire before 40 than it would be for my parentally inclined peers. But I reject, with extreme prejudice, the idea that this is a simple binary equation and reproduction is the only factor setting us apart.
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I tend to follow what seems to be the common theme here. The parent that's better with money, my mom in my case, I'm more open with. My dad sadly has always been pretty bad with money, to the point of being declared insolvent at 60 and having to keep working now pretty much forever I keep the details to myself.
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My situation is different. My wife and I don't have a lot saved via IRA and TSP, but we have my military pension to live off of. We won't be rich, but my pension will give us a very nice quality of life. Drawing 4% from our investments will be icing on top.
My dad retired from the Navy as well and he and my mom have some investments but primarily live off their pensions and SS. They are in pretty good shape, I've actually talked to both about some investment stuff (like leave Edward Jones ASAP). They know roughly our finances and I know theirs.
My brother is a bit of a train wreck financially, but his wife makes good money as an accountant, so they are in pretty good shape.
On my wife's side, her mom has a good stache of money and SS + teacher's pension, plus she lives very frugally, so she'll be fine.
My BIL makes great money and invests most of it, so once again in good shape.
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I'm pretty open about my finances and frugal behaviour (and my lapses in frugality), especially with my immediate family.
I talk often with my dad about finances and investing and he is supportive that I have put such an emphasis on saving. He even has access to my banking accounts and can transfer money out of it whenever he wants (so he sees exactly what I make and spend). In fact he notified me before the credit card company or bank that there was unusual activity in my account when my card # had been stolen.
And I talk with my sister all the time about finances and planning. We have both watched a lot of Gail from Til Debt Do US Part and Princess, and I think we're on the same page. She's started on MMM lately as well, so current finances and ways to live more efficiently/economically have started coming up more often.
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i'm open about everything in my life ... probably to a fault. but i dont really care. its who i am and how i relay information.
This is me, probably to my DH's chagrin... but oh well.
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agreed. it is like people think adding 1 person means a proportional increase in expenses. Example: expenses are $1000
1 person = $1000
2 people = $2000
3 people = $3000
just no...it doesnt have to be that way...
Doesn't have to be, but easily can be. IME, there is no real economy of scale advantage for high dollar items like childcare, college tuition, airfare, etc.
I share some things with my family. I told them when I paid off my student loans and we are debt free. They know that we make pretty good money (for what we do) and live well below our means. We are all fairly open about our finances if they happen to come up.
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We share quite a bit with my family, and I try not to share much with my husband's. Part of that has to do with the income levels of those involved. My ILs (MIL, FIL and SIL) have significantly higher income than us and are constantly expecting us to spend at their level. Pleading money trouble makes sense to them and (usually) works to get us off the hook for their spendypants adventures and purchases. My family comes from a much more modest background. Telling them about our finances works to keep them from giving us money. It also helps that we frame it through the lens of preparing for the possibility of me not being able to work in the future due to a chronic illness.
It's ironic to me (but not terribly surprising) that you have to plead money troubles to your high earning/spending family, while your modest earning/spending family wants to give you money to make sure you're ok.
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We share quite a bit with my family, and I try not to share much with my husband's. Part of that has to do with the income levels of those involved. My ILs (MIL, FIL and SIL) have significantly higher income than us and are constantly expecting us to spend at their level. Pleading money trouble makes sense to them and (usually) works to get us off the hook for their spendypants adventures and purchases. My family comes from a much more modest background. Telling them about our finances works to keep them from giving us money. It also helps that we frame it through the lens of preparing for the possibility of me not being able to work in the future due to a chronic illness.
It's ironic to me (but not terribly surprising) that you have to plead money troubles to your high earning/spending family, while your modest earning/spending family wants to give you money to make sure you're ok.
All that just to avoid openly stating you have different priorities, or did I miss something?
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AFAIK, everyone has been too polite to ask for specifics. I don't offer numbers because, well, privacy is nice (I don't think DH has offered numbers, either, but not 100% sure.)
OP, I get the longing to experience pride from your parents in your accomplishments. It is not always realistic to hope for this. In my case, I don't offer details to my parents because it will just result in them pointing out everyone else who has done better than I have. I am mostly resigned to not having their approval in the way that I would like, and tell myself that given my circumstances, this problem merits one of these (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/friendly-banter-hits-a-nerve/msg981068/#msg981068). Life is pretty good, really!
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I went to visit my mother in hospice yesterday, my sister was there also. We work for the same company and we both got our annual reviews/bonuses this week. I know that I make twice what she does and my bonuses are also probably double what she gets so I didn't even bring it up. She mentioned that hers went well but didn't offer any details, so I just told her I was happy for her and left it at that.
At such times I feel it would just be rude to say much of anything. She knows I'm doing well financially, that is enough. I don't need to rub it in.
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Recently told my dad I hit $100k for the first time, he said "that's great" then we talked a bit about investments, he commented about investment options in the 70's and 80's (no 401k, IRA, discount brokers, etc) and moved on to the next topic. If my parents ever asked, I'd tell them, but generally it just doesn't come up.
They're both retiring in the next year around normal retirement age, and have more than they need (how much more, I'm not sure). They weren't MMM frugal, but were more frugal than the average Joneses, and got started a bit late due to my dad having a business that didn't work out in his early 30's. I definitely lucked out with the parent lottery, as money has never been an issue between us. They paid my way through college, and I got a job and went independent immediately after graduation. A (relatively boring) fairytale ending.
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I try not to reveal too many specifics, but at the same time I do want them to be proud of what I've accomplished. I've been renting for all my adult life and they ask me from time to time if I am getting close to saving enough to buy a house. I really don't have much intention on buying, even though I have enough for a down payment, so I sort of lie and say I'm still saving for it. My dad recently wanted me to buy a newer car to replace my old beater, but I refused on the premise I was still saving money. He sort of asked, "Well, how much do you have left?" as though he really couldn't understand why I wouldn't have enough for both. I haven't told them about my early retirement plans. They would probably think it was a rather unrealistic notion.
I don't want them to know how well off I am becoming right now, as they'd probably have a different view of my life and what I should be doing.
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I try not to reveal too many specifics, but at the same time I do want them to be proud of what I've accomplished. I've been renting for all my adult life and they ask me from time to time if I am getting close to saving enough to buy a house. I really don't have much intention on buying, even though I have enough for a down payment, so I sort of lie and say I'm still saving for it. My dad recently wanted me to buy a newer car to replace my old beater, but I refused on the premise I was still saving money. He sort of asked, "Well, how much do you have left?" as though he really couldn't understand why I wouldn't have enough for both. I haven't told them about my early retirement plans. They would probably think it was a rather unrealistic notion.
I don't want them to know how well off I am becoming right now, as they'd probably have a different view of my life and what I should be doing.
Or maybe if you shared your values with them, they'd understand you better, and see why you aren't buying those things.
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My parents and brothers know my plans, my mom knows some vague numbers. I would tell them more specifics, if they were interested. They ask about general plans and how-to's, but specific numbers don't really come up. My parents are doing fine, but my brothers and their families are struggling financially (one of them is actively working in the right direction, the other I have no idea) and I don't want to ever come across to them like I'm bragging.
My boyfriend is the only one to whom I share specific numbers, both goals and little achievements.
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I try not to reveal too many specifics, but at the same time I do want them to be proud of what I've accomplished. I've been renting for all my adult life and they ask me from time to time if I am getting close to saving enough to buy a house. I really don't have much intention on buying, even though I have enough for a down payment, so I sort of lie and say I'm still saving for it. My dad recently wanted me to buy a newer car to replace my old beater, but I refused on the premise I was still saving money. He sort of asked, "Well, how much do you have left?" as though he really couldn't understand why I wouldn't have enough for both. I haven't told them about my early retirement plans. They would probably think it was a rather unrealistic notion.
I don't want them to know how well off I am becoming right now, as they'd probably have a different view of my life and what I should be doing.
Or maybe if you shared your values with them, they'd understand you better, and see why you aren't buying those things.
I kind of share my values with them, but sometimes they don't get it. The less they know about how much money I have, the less they'll be confused when I won't pay for things they think I should. Knowing my mom, she'd probably think I ought to be taking her out to dinner all the time if I have so much money. Seems like the poorer people think you are, the less they expect from you!
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I try not to reveal too many specifics, but at the same time I do want them to be proud of what I've accomplished. I've been renting for all my adult life and they ask me from time to time if I am getting close to saving enough to buy a house. I really don't have much intention on buying, even though I have enough for a down payment, so I sort of lie and say I'm still saving for it. My dad recently wanted me to buy a newer car to replace my old beater, but I refused on the premise I was still saving money. He sort of asked, "Well, how much do you have left?" as though he really couldn't understand why I wouldn't have enough for both. I haven't told them about my early retirement plans. They would probably think it was a rather unrealistic notion.
I don't want them to know how well off I am becoming right now, as they'd probably have a different view of my life and what I should be doing.
Or maybe if you shared your values with them, they'd understand you better, and see why you aren't buying those things.
I kind of share my values with them, but sometimes they don't get it. The less they know about how much money I have, the less they'll be confused when I won't pay for things they think I should. Knowing my mom, she'd probably think I ought to be taking her out to dinner all the time if I have so much money. Seems like the poorer people think you are, the less they expect from you!
+1 Definitely true in my surroundings. But then you run the risk of being considered a mooch if someone subsidies your spendypants participation, or you get labeled uninterested in spending time with family etc. I can't tell you how many times people tell me "well, you can afford it"...with not knowing anything about my finances. Totally besides the point. Thankfully my family doesn't need my money, but I'm sure they have their opinions on what I could be spending on. I tried sharing my values with them and the response was "I don't think your mother would be willing to drive a Toyota". Oh well. Not my money.
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Overall plan... yes (although they think I'm 'full of it', haha), specific details... no.
My family and I are WORLDS apart in beliefs. I'm from a large family (9) and probably every single one would be in the Anti-MMM section.
Some comedy from my family are as follows... and no, I WISH I made these up...
Brother, "It's IMPOSSIBLE to live on any less than $50k per year", this is while he living rent free.
Mother, "You need to move to a bigger house for your growing family!", we have about 1800sq/ft livable space at our current house, family of 4.
Sister, "You don't eat out? You should really eat out at least 2-3x per week to stimulate the struggling economy...", no comment (yes she spends a fortune on eating out).
Not even touching the outrageous clown cars and mansion houses... so weird as we all grew up frugal and quite poor.
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Sister, "You don't eat out? You should really eat out at least 2-3x per week to stimulate the struggling economy...", no comment (yes she spends a fortune on eating out).
Tell her your investments stimulate the economy far more than a few restaurant dinners would.
Not even touching the outrageous clown cars and mansion houses... so weird as we all grew up frugal and quite poor.
I get that, actually. We weren't poor when I was a kid but we were below average for our neighborhood during my formative years and I was always acutely conscious of it, which I believe contributed a great deal to excessive spending later on. It's easy to develop the mindset that you'll "never live like that again" or that you'll "prove them wrong".
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One brother, my Dad and I all are pretty sharp with finances and have done well so we share plans, strategies and bounce ideas off one another occasionally. Pretty nice actually to have these resources for discussion. Other siblings are pretty normal Americans, getting by but not setting it on fire. Really don't get into discussions with them much, other than when they bring something up, I might give a little input or very unforced advice. Also have to be careful not to be boastful about accomplishments.
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This is kind of a repeat of what I said in another thread, but I have only talked about numbers with two people.
My wife is one and about 6 months before my mother died I told her our networth.
I have one friend that I discuss stock and mutual fund information, but he has no idea about my net worth.
I have a sister that thinks I have money, but any money is money to her, because she has $negative. She
only works 20 hours and has excuse-itis about getting another job. It's actually very sad because our* house
she lives in is short walking distance to at least 40 businesses, that she could visit once a week saying, "just checking in
and available for work" She has time to make acquaintances with all the managers.
It is a few short years and she will be living on $800** a month SS. (She's 56)
*When mom died she left the house to us, she lives in it and I get no rent. (blood from a turnip thing)
I'm 1000 miles from the house, and pretty much figured her staying in the house would be the best for her financially.
** I hope she gets that much, she had a lot of years off the books.
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There is another side of it - namely kids. I've been pretty open with my kids (14-17yrs) about our investments and retirement plans, but I've heard/read other people say you shouldn't let your kids know how much you have/earn, because it gives them a false benchmark for when they're starting out.
Obviously, that's not what I do, I think getting your kids to understand money and investments is very important. Of course, kids are still kids, my 17year old says he wants to save money, and he's trying to convince a friend of his to save/use as an apartment deposit, the money he's planning to spend on a 'flashy' car, but money doesn't tend to stay in his possession very long. Still, if he's intellectually got the right idea, maybe as impulse control kicks in, he'll do better .... hopefully...
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There is another side of it - namely kids. I've been pretty open with my kids (14-17yrs) about our investments and retirement plans, but I've heard/read other people say you shouldn't let your kids know how much you have/earn, because it gives them a false benchmark for when they're starting out.
Obviously, that's not what I do, I think getting your kids to understand money and investments is very important. Of course, kids are still kids, my 17year old says he wants to save money, and he's trying to convince a friend of his to save/use as an apartment deposit, the money he's planning to spend on a 'flashy' car, but money doesn't tend to stay in his possession very long. Still, if he's intellectually got the right idea, maybe as impulse control kicks in, he'll do better .... hopefully...
I read the first part of your post and thought, that's a horrible idea! I'm glad to hear you are more open with your children. I gained an appreciation for saving and investing really early on because my dad was open with me. I don't think his salary gave me a "false benchmark" at all, because I knew he worked with the same company for 22 years and worked his way up. I remember going with him to pay the last mortgage payment on our home, and going with my mom to visit their financial planner. We could have "kept up with the Joneses" because of my dad's salary, but he was definitely mustachian and passed that down to his kids.
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In broad terms, yeah, my family knows I'm doing well. My parents have always been frugal (my Mom occasionally crosses the line into straight up being a cheapskate) and smart with money, and were always pretty solidly middle-to-upper-middle class growing up. My dad has offered to let me use his copy of TurboTax or whatever he uses the past few years, so he knows what I make, if not my savings %.
My brother has been pretty sensible as well so far, in a general sense of "don't by stupid shit" and "spend less than you earn" but historically hasn't read up much on Personal Finance or anything. He knows that it's an interest of mine and has asked me questions from time to time.
Most impressively, a few months back, he texted me to say "You should check out this money blog called Mr. Money Mustache. If I didn't know any better, I would have guessed that you were secretly the author..." and since then, both he and his SO have been reading up on it and at least are on board in theory with the concept, although I don't know if they feel it's actually a realistic option for them as they're both public teachers in an extremely HCOL area. When I last saw them over the holidays, on more than one occasion one of them commented that "that's not very mustachian," or "MMM would call you out for that..." etc, about whatever we were discussing at the time :D
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My dad probably has a pretty good idea about our finances, although not every detail- He and my mom (who has passed away) were both very financially responsible, my dad left his job at 53 or 54, to do less demanding contract work, and quit entirely at 55 when my mom was diagnosed with cancer, never bothered going back. I have no worries about his financial situation, and learned lots growing up about financial planning and being frugal from them both.
Husband and I don't give anyone all our financial information, but are pretty open with individual items, and our friends know that we're pretty financially savvy, so will sometimes ask about things. For example, how much life/disability insurance we carry and the cost, how/why we choose what retirement saving vessels to use. One of our friends is planning a fist baby, and as the wife and I have super similar jobs and benefits, we told them they could have info about what my income on mat. leave looked like, what pension buyback cost, and the life/disability/health insurance options and cost available while on leave, as well as costs for everything baby related, what we now spend on daycare, ect. Which they took us up on :) But we don't really go out of our way to discuss finances with people, as it makes some people uncomfortable, and I probably wouldn't give anyone our entire financial picture
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Well I told him but yeah, he initially got worried and told me I should sell the houses. I explained to him that I make money off the houses, the tenants pay the mortgage and I make money off the principal, cash flow and appreciation, etc. He said well, you know better than I do about this stuff.
My dad is 80 and lives in an apartment, still works, though not sure if it is for financial reasons though I suspect it is at least in part. I want to move from working class to investment class, and right now, my investment income matches my six figure salary. Why sell? Eventually, but not now. Heck, the properties will be paid off by the time I hit SS. I have a fall back other than SS...
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I talk in fairly great detail with my Dad, because he seems interested and I trust him. I would do same with Mom, but she doesn't seem as interested in the topic. The in-laws get no details from me, for a variety of reasons.
One person I tell nothing to any more is my drug-addict sister - even if she asks directly she doesn't get anything more than a "we do OK" answer from me.
With friends and most of my extended family, I generally try not to bring finances up, but will discuss details if it has come up and seems appropriate.
Then I post way too many details of many aspects of my life to a bunch of strangers on the internet, so not being consistent at all ;)
Loved this. ^
I discuss investments with my dad, gives us something else to talk about besides home improvement, but we don't talk balances. My wife and I discuss FI hopes/projections/guantlets all the time, that's all I need. I did once reach out to my most frugal college friend to ask if he had ever heard of MMM or FIRE. When I heard back that he had not, but looked into it and is not interested because he "has a good gig at work so why would he want to leave that?", I stopped looking in my circle of friends for Mustachians. It's possible they are out there, but it doesn't come up.
It's way more about living the life you want than a number, but discussing specific progress towards a specific goal has a pretty narrow appeal. I think most of my family would think our FI target is way too small, but they are putting in in-ground pools in Cleveland and driving Hummers. We all know we are not alike.
+1 to not wanting to come off as bragging. I think some would think it was bragging if I overshared, and some would think I'm depriving myself and family of luxuries they view as necessities. Neither one is a comfortable situation. I'm not trying to reform them, just live how I want, which does not include full-time employment until death. If they were truly interested and I trusted them, I'd share. It's just money. It doesn't define me.