Author Topic: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?  (Read 11558 times)

Bucksandreds

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Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« on: October 04, 2015, 06:12:28 PM »
I was reading an article about how things like wearing name brands cause those around us to have unconscious perceptions about us that affect how they treat us.  So theoretically wearing a North Face jacket or driving a BMW may help us with our career or social lives.  I have been thinking that most people take spending to an extreme and spend more than they have and sometimes this forum pulls us to the opposite extreme and deprive ourselves in ways that could be hurting us.  Thoughts?

Zikoris

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2015, 06:21:58 PM »
I don't think most Mustachians are too interested in either a lot of career growth or social relationships with the type of people who place a lot of value on designer clothes and expensive cars. Or maybe that's just me.

thedayisbrave

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2015, 06:42:12 PM »
Hmm.  I wear clothes from Goodwill and drive a generic non-luxury sedan.  I am consistently turning down job offers (though recently actually took one that was too sweet to pass up) and I have lots of friends that I hang out with consistently.

Not sure there is a cause and effect here at all.  Your career & social life are completely what you make of them.

Lski'stash

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2015, 07:07:56 PM »
Mustachianism is about choosing what to buy based on what makes you actually happy (as opposed to happy for a minute or two), and saving the rest to trade in more happiness time. Some people take it to 'extremes' because they simply realize they don't need or want many material things to make them happy. Anyone that feels like they are sacrificing should scale back, in my opinion, but I feel like most ( like 99%) of the people on this website don't have this problem.

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2015, 07:55:10 PM »
I wonder about this as I work to build a successful law practice. A big piece of that is networking, which often involves non-mustachian things like going to lunch or out for drinks. Plus, as a business attorney, the the type clientele I hope to work for is not particularly mustachian: I want clients who are willing and able to pay high dollar for quality work that adds value. I don't want cients who are so fee conscious they cannot see the value I can add or, worse, never allow me to find and create value.

I figure you just need to do enough to get by. I wear nice professional clothing at work and at business events, but I don't wear designer suits. I do networking events but keep costs down. I bike to work regularly, but I speak to my coworkers about it in terms of it being a time-efficient way for me to get exercise, not as a money-saving thing.

It's sort of like aspiring to play in the NBA. To do so, you need to be tall enough, but you can be a successful NBA player without being the tallest guy on the court.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 07:52:00 AM by AlwaysLearningToSave »

Exflyboy

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2015, 08:24:36 PM »
I "found out" I was FI literally when I first read MM.. even then I had to message Pete and make sure I REALLY was FI.

It was a bit of a light bulb in terms of my outlook. I was in a job I hated, but of course I was driving for status and power (que demonic laugh).

Now of course I never went so far as to own a BMW, my 1997 Dodge Neon with the paint peeling off worked perfectly fine for me.

But after Pete replied and told me I was "done working".. well I pretty much was.

At that instant the yearning for status evaporated.

I survived about 3 more months and I quit.

mozar

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2015, 09:08:33 PM »
Quote
I survived about 3 more months and I quit.

That's awesome.

Seppia

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2015, 09:18:28 PM »
Perception matters, it's unquestionable.
That doesn't mean one has to buy a yacht to connect with successful people, but if you are a sales director you cannot get the clothes you wear at work second hand.

And of course I am interested in having a good career: the faster I advance, the more I make, the shorter the path to independence is.

Villanelle

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2015, 09:48:02 PM »
Some people probably do take it to far, but that line varies so much based on goals, career field, and more. 

I've never had a career what my vehicle mattered even a bit.  And as long as I looked presentable, I was fine, whether it was an Old Navy blouse or a $500 blouse. There was an issue with attire with some of my coworkers, but which is more than I can say for some of that wasn't an issue with spending but with appropriateness.  The velour tracksuit with "Juicy" on the butt probably cost more than my TJ Maxx dress, but was not "business casual", even in a West Coast beach town.    DH's coworkers are sometimes surprised by his (and my) choices of vehicle, but he's not in a world where it is hurtful.  As for it hurting us socially, I don't care much to gain the favor of those would think less of me because my handbag isn't designer or I don't have a luxury vehicle. 

If either one of us worked at a white shoe law firm, then some "when in Rome" would probably be necessary, and I'd look at as an money spent to make money, while still trying to find ways to do it as cheaply as possible.

Lanthiriel

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2015, 10:57:57 PM »
I had drinks with some coworkers on Friday and somehow the topic of how much we'd ever spent on a pair of jeans came up. I said, "I'm literally too cheap to buy Levis new. The pair I'm wearing right now were $8 at Value Village." The look on one of my coworker's face was of extreme horror, like I'd just said I drown puppies for fun.

I am 100% sure that second hand jeans will have no effect on my career, and I'm not terribly concerned if Mr. Diesel Jeans doesn't want to hang out with me.

patrickza

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2015, 12:09:22 AM »
I think one of the benefits of being close to FI is that you really don't have to give a damn what people think. Last week I was out camping, and all my old school friends (from 20 years ago!) who I haven't seen in years were commenting on my car. My wife chimed in that she bought me clothes in the beginning of our relationship because she thought I was poor. So yes, I guess I don't come across fancy at all...

Then the next morning my paycheck cleared into my brokerage account and I put 160% of the value of my car into my index funds while sitting around having breakfast with said friends. It felt pretty good :)

Oh and on leaving day, my wife and I had our tent, table, chairs and air mattresses packed neatly into my little car in under half an hour. The rest took hours longer to pack up what looked like all the contents of their house into oversized vans and 4x4's, all with trailers of course, and even larger bank loans!

heybro

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2015, 01:10:10 AM »
I think the key is to always try to buy experiences.  Things hardly ever amount to much but experiences are what life is about.
Sadly, I think experiences are not valued much by many.  AND, it is hard to engage in some experiences without spending a lot.
I guess figure out what experiences you value and try to spend the money on those.

Kroaler

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2015, 03:07:09 AM »
There are some people who take it too far.   They pursue cheap, not value.  Seems most mustachians go for value.     About the bmws, I had 3 for company cars last year. Everyone was an asshole to me on the road, and everywhere I went people treated me like a prick, I drive my ford ranger now and like the perception better, people are much nicer for some reason...


vhalros

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2015, 03:21:21 AM »
My impression of the tech industry is that, the more senior you are, the less well you dress. If there is a programmer who shows up in pajamas, he is basically just too good at his job to fire.

Bucksandreds

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2015, 05:52:01 AM »
I don't think most Mustachians are too interested in either a lot of career growth or social relationships with the type of people who place a lot of value on designer clothes and expensive cars.

The point is that it's not even a conscious decision to treat people differently.  You and I almost assuredly make unconscious decisions about people based off of how they present themselves and branding tends to be a large part of that.  I drive a Ford Fiesta and wear old scrubs to work (dentist at a large institution) but this research has at least made me think that maybe if I wore khakis and polo shirts, I might be more likely to get a promotion which would greatly increase my earnings above the cost of the clothes.  I may even spend $100 on a North Face Jacket.  I have always even unconsciously thought people look well put together when they have one on.

Matt_D

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2015, 07:03:24 AM »
I don't think most Mustachians are too interested in either a lot of career growth or social relationships with the type of people who place a lot of value on designer clothes and expensive cars.

The point is that it's not even a conscious decision to treat people differently.  You and I almost assuredly make unconscious decisions about people based off of how they present themselves and branding tends to be a large part of that.  I drive a Ford Fiesta and wear old scrubs to work (dentist at a large institution) but this research has at least made me think that maybe if I wore khakis and polo shirts, I might be more likely to get a promotion which would greatly increase my earnings above the cost of the clothes.  I may even spend $100 on a North Face Jacket.  I have always even unconsciously thought people look well put together when they have one on.

When the heck did North Face become a "status" jacket?? I have 3 of them (light, mid, and heavy weights) because they are really good jackets, fit nicely, and last a long time. One was a gift, and the other two were bought at REI on closeout sales.

Regarding how you look... I know I have coworkers who spend way more on clothes, but I look more than presentable and wear the same types of clothes (and I'm in a shirt-and-tie and occasionally suit environment). I'm not a frugal clothing genius by any means, but I do buy stuff on sale (and generally with a coupon) that I know will last me a while without breaking the bank. Maybe the legal profession is different - but in my arena, as long as you wear the correct type of clothes and are vaguely in line with current fashion, almost nobody will care what brand they are.

Seppia

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2015, 07:18:45 AM »
That's my point as well.
Perception matters, not saying you need Hermes shirts (I don't even know if they make shirts lol), but spending moderate amounts of money in good looking clothes can help.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2015, 07:23:40 AM »
I was reading an article about how things like wearing name brands cause those around us to have unconscious perceptions about us that affect how they treat us.  So theoretically wearing a North Face jacket or driving a BMW may help us with our career or social lives.  I have been thinking that most people take spending to an extreme and spend more than they have and sometimes this forum pulls us to the opposite extreme and deprive ourselves in ways that could be hurting us.  Thoughts?

It depends on what you do for work.

I do consulting work and the impression I leave people with how I dress and what I drive matters. That doesn't mean I need to spend ridiculous $$ on these things, but I can't ignore them either.

Someone posted in a different thread that they wanted to hit right at "average" when it came to clothes and such in the office. I always want to be the best dressed person at the level I am working at and if I want to move to a different position/contract I dress appropriately for that level now as long as it fits in with my duties.

Whether or not how we look should matter is irrelevant. The fact is it does matter.

One way to achieve this end is to spend a ton of $$ on the latest crap. Not my bag.

The other is to find classic styles of clothes and buy quality items, maintain them and wear them well.  Not point having an amazing suit if you don't look after the body you hang it off of.  Quality clothes last a long time.

Now once you are FI and do not need $$ dress exactly how you want to. It really doesn't matter.

Zikoris

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2015, 07:40:22 AM »
I don't think most Mustachians are too interested in either a lot of career growth or social relationships with the type of people who place a lot of value on designer clothes and expensive cars.

The point is that it's not even a conscious decision to treat people differently.  You and I almost assuredly make unconscious decisions about people based off of how they present themselves and branding tends to be a large part of that.  I drive a Ford Fiesta and wear old scrubs to work (dentist at a large institution) but this research has at least made me think that maybe if I wore khakis and polo shirts, I might be more likely to get a promotion which would greatly increase my earnings above the cost of the clothes.  I may even spend $100 on a North Face Jacket.  I have always even unconsciously thought people look well put together when they have one on.

Maybe you do, not me - I have a hard time even remembering what color someone's car is, let alone what brand and whether or not that's considered an expensive one (lifelong non-driver with no license here). With clothing, I admire people who have clothing that fits them well and suits their body type/colors/personality/whatever, but I have no idea which brand of dress shirt is the expensive one.

Bucksandreds

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2015, 09:05:31 AM »
I don't think most Mustachians are too interested in either a lot of career growth or social relationships with the type of people who place a lot of value on designer clothes and expensive cars.

The point is that it's not even a conscious decision to treat people differently.  You and I almost assuredly make unconscious decisions about people based off of how they present themselves and branding tends to be a large part of that.  I drive a Ford Fiesta and wear old scrubs to work (dentist at a large institution) but this research has at least made me think that maybe if I wore khakis and polo shirts, I might be more likely to get a promotion which would greatly increase my earnings above the cost of the clothes.  I may even spend $100 on a North Face Jacket.  I have always even unconsciously thought people look well put together when they have one on.

When the heck did North Face become a "status" jacket?? I have 3 of them (light, mid, and heavy weights) because they are really good jackets, fit nicely, and last a long time. One was a gift, and the other two were bought at REI on closeout sales.

Regarding how you look... I know I have coworkers who spend way more on clothes, but I look more than presentable and wear the same types of clothes (and I'm in a shirt-and-tie and occasionally suit environment). I'm not a frugal clothing genius by any means, but I do buy stuff on sale (and generally with a coupon) that I know will last me a while without breaking the bank. Maybe the legal profession is different - but in my arena, as long as you wear the correct type of clothes and are vaguely in line with current fashion, almost nobody will care what brand they are.

I don't know where you live but in Ohio it definitely is.  They charge 50-100% more than many other quality brands and 200% or more over the cost of Walmart brands.  They are quality but you are definitely paying for much more than just quality, you are paying for the label.  I purchased a soft shell New Balance Jacket that, besides label, is 100% equivalent to North Face and paid about 66% less for it.  No one says nice jacket to me but they do to my wife's North Face version.  If you haven't recognized this then I would have to question your mustachianism.

Bucksandreds

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2015, 09:06:45 AM »
I don't think most Mustachians are too interested in either a lot of career growth or social relationships with the type of people who place a lot of value on designer clothes and expensive cars.

The point is that it's not even a conscious decision to treat people differently.  You and I almost assuredly make unconscious decisions about people based off of how they present themselves and branding tends to be a large part of that.  I drive a Ford Fiesta and wear old scrubs to work (dentist at a large institution) but this research has at least made me think that maybe if I wore khakis and polo shirts, I might be more likely to get a promotion which would greatly increase my earnings above the cost of the clothes.  I may even spend $100 on a North Face Jacket.  I have always even unconsciously thought people look well put together when they have one on.

Maybe you do, not me - I have a hard time even remembering what color someone's car is, let alone what brand and whether or not that's considered an expensive one (lifelong non-driver with no license here). With clothing, I admire people who have clothing that fits them well and suits their body type/colors/personality/whatever, but I have no idea which brand of dress shirt is the expensive one.

A new shirt would maintain it's vibrant colors longer.  New unwashed clothes almost always looks better than worn clothes.

Giro

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2015, 09:17:40 AM »
For me, I dress neat and appropriate at work.  I'm known as the frugal person in my office but it actually builds my reputation.  I work hard and save and spend according to my desires.  I get questions on finance and how to invest frequently. 

When you are frugal and known as the office investment guru, you get perceived as being very smart. 

You don't have to have name brands but you do have to be clean, neat and dressed appropriately.  No one cares about my car but when they get in it, it's spotless. That says a lot more than a label. 

Sayonara925

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2015, 01:00:34 PM »
My impression of the tech industry is that, the more senior you are, the less well you dress. If there is a programmer who shows up in pajamas, he is basically just too good at his job to fire.

Ha...that's awesome.

honeybbq

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2015, 01:06:25 PM »
IMO, yes. Handkerchiefs? Fine. Pee rag? No thanks.

Rosy

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2015, 01:46:59 PM »
^^^ It's all about the values of the current generation/society. ^^^ It's neither here nor there, an artist friend of mine used to wear pajama pants and somehow made it work:)

In my field it was important to dress well and if you did not, you were called in. The manager basically stated, we pay you a generous salary and we expect you to dress accordingly.
The car didn't matter, because we had company cars for business trips.

I am a good shopper and with the exception of a couple of suits, I never spent a great deal of money. I had a capsule wardrobe, before they had a word for it. It helps to know about fabrics and quality and how to take proper care of your clothing.

Now I finally get to wear all the fun colors and glitzy stuff I want - no more black for me:)


charis

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2015, 01:55:26 PM »

...but if you are a sales director you cannot get the clothes you wear at work second hand.

Of course you can.  You can get a designer suit in excellent condition at a consignment shop or off ebay tailored to you and look just as good, if not better than anyone buying new.

Mr. Green

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2015, 02:39:38 PM »
People's perception of you is what matters. Go interview ten successful people and ask them what would draw them to another person and most, if not all, of them will say how the person carries him or herself is the biggest factor. If you're not wearing designer duds but you act like you're going somewhere and you talk like you know what you're doing (even if you don't) people will be drawn to that and will respond to that. If you're talking about a social setting or another situation where someone could look at your clothes and make a decision that doesn't involve speaking with you then that's a situation I wouldn't find myself in but as far as when it comes to engaging with people, if you command attention and have presence you will have every opportunity for success that you need because, plain and simple, people are a bunch of sheeple these days. Hardly anyone knows how to be aggressive (figuratively) and make things happen. That's how you win, not by wearing designer clothes. Of course you can't look like a bum either but it doesn't cost big money to look nice.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 02:42:14 PM by Mr. Green »

honeybbq

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2015, 02:39:58 PM »
Perception matters, it's unquestionable.
That doesn't mean one has to buy a yacht to connect with successful people, but if you are a sales director you cannot get the clothes you wear at work second hand.



Of course you can. My goodwill is FULL of great clothes that look like they've never been worn. I have a closet full of Banana Republic and Jcrew lined wool and wool blend trousers I got for 3.99 to 4.99 each at the goodwill. I just got a pair of Express editor trousers there Saturday - $3.99. I've gotten Brooks brother's button downs, etc. Everyone likes my attire at work (business casual) and often comments how nice some things I've purchased there are. I got my daughter a tea collection dress (sold at Nordstrom) for $1.99. It has no stains and you can't even tell I didn't just buy it new.

You just have to a) find a nice GW or thrift store and b) scout.

Seppia

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Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2015, 02:48:16 PM »
Your call ladies and gents.

To me, there's so much amazing quality clothing sold for ridiculously cheap new that I really don't even see the value.

My bad for typing "it can't be done" but my clothing expenses are so insignificant buying great quality new stuff that I can't imagine how scouting for used stuff could be a good investment of my time, even if the used clothes cost me zero.

This without mentioning the potential damage to one's perceived value if coworkers/bosses of a person making six figures discovered they buy clothes at the goodwill.

Not saying it would be right obviously.

CobraKreese

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2015, 06:54:44 PM »
I read some of the comments here and I had questions in regards to jobs.  Seems like some of the comments on career growth and jobs make it seem like you aren't concerned with making more?  I'm not arguing merely trying to understand other people's viewpoint.  I started a thread on here recently explaining my job situation.  I don't make much money only 40K a year but I do get to work from home.  I have tons of freedom but not so happy with my wages.  I want to make more to save/invest more to retire early.  I would love to have this job later after I have built up a great portfolio of properties and investments.  Is my logic flawed?  Thanks everyone!

Zikoris

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2015, 07:05:05 PM »
I read some of the comments here and I had questions in regards to jobs.  Seems like some of the comments on career growth and jobs make it seem like you aren't concerned with making more?  I'm not arguing merely trying to understand other people's viewpoint.  I started a thread on here recently explaining my job situation.  I don't make much money only 40K a year but I do get to work from home.  I have tons of freedom but not so happy with my wages.  I want to make more to save/invest more to retire early.  I would love to have this job later after I have built up a great portfolio of properties and investments.  Is my logic flawed?  Thanks everyone!

I think a lot of us are less concerned about careers because we don't intend on working much longer. I certainly intend to coast through to ER on my easy, low-stress, comfortable job. I could probably earn more if I pursued some sort of training, but it seems kind of pointless when I've only got another 8-9 years left to go and enjoy my work a reasonable amount already.

Matt_D

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2015, 07:29:11 PM »
I don't know where you live but in Ohio it definitely is.  They charge 50-100% more than many other quality brands and 200% or more over the cost of Walmart brands.  They are quality but you are definitely paying for much more than just quality, you are paying for the label.  I purchased a soft shell New Balance Jacket that, besides label, is 100% equivalent to North Face and paid about 66% less for it.  No one says nice jacket to me but they do to my wife's North Face version.  If you haven't recognized this then I would have to question your mustachianism.

My profile (right next to my post) says I live in Virginia, and I do. Not sure why you're confused there...

If you read my entire post, you'd see I got the jackets on deep discount (and only one within the last 2 years, FWIW). I bought them because of the reasons specified and because they fit the need and the budget, not because I care about the brand specifically.

Also not sure why not realizing that North Face is sometimes overpriced makes me non-mustachian??

Easye418

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2015, 08:06:35 PM »
I do like to spend good money on quality leather products that end up lasting forever.

Seppia

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Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2015, 08:08:52 PM »
I read some of the comments here and I had questions in regards to jobs.  Seems like some of the comments on career growth and jobs make it seem like you aren't concerned with making more?  I'm not arguing merely trying to understand other people's viewpoint.  I started a thread on here recently explaining my job situation.  I don't make much money only 40K a year but I do get to work from home.  I have tons of freedom but not so happy with my wages.  I want to make more to save/invest more to retire early.  I would love to have this job later after I have built up a great portfolio of properties and investments.  Is my logic flawed?  Thanks everyone!

Well I don't know about others, but while it's pretty clear that the key to independence is not burning money and saving a lot, income plays a big role as well.
Once you realize that a dollar saved is worth more than an additional dollar earned (because of taxes and the fact that owning stuff has often a cost), there's a point where the marginal utility of cutting an extra dollar is low enough that making more becomes interesting.

This is a complicated way to say: save as much as possible without impacting your quality of life first, but then definitely try make more if you can, again without killing yourself.

It's personal though, not everybody thinks the same, which is why my only recommendation would be: try find what works best for you.

We're generally talking different levels of great money management in this forum, so it's details.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2015, 09:40:29 PM »
I like to think I try to do enough, and no more. Although it helps I work in a profession where I basically wear PJs on a daily basis and you can get disciplinary action for fancy hair or manicures with polish.

I personally would prefer to invest the money and energy into food and fitness. Health and a healthy weight are well known predictors of success, and I don't have to worry about those getting damaged in the dryer.

charis

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2015, 07:54:45 AM »
Your call ladies and gents.

To me, there's so much amazing quality clothing sold for ridiculously cheap new that I really don't even see the value.

My bad for typing "it can't be done" but my clothing expenses are so insignificant buying great quality new stuff that I can't imagine how scouting for used stuff could be a good investment of my time, even if the used clothes cost me zero.

This without mentioning the potential damage to one's perceived value if coworkers/bosses of a person making six figures discovered they buy clothes at the goodwill.

Not saying it would be right obviously.

What is the amazing quality clothing that sells for ridiculously cheap new?  If you never spend money on clothing then, yes, it wouldn't be worth it to go out and shop for clothing that you don't need.  If you need nice clothes for work, which is what we are talking about here, and you have to spend time shopping for clothes anyway, it certainly is worth it to save hundreds of dollars on excellent condition, but otherwise expensive clothing.  Also, buying new creates more waste.  Finally, no one will judge you for buying on ebay (because they won't know you are doing it) or a good consignment shop.  Maybe goodwill, but they'd only find out if they were shopping there too.


GuitarStv

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2015, 08:17:59 AM »
That's my point as well.
Perception matters, not saying you need Hermes shirts (I don't even know if they make shirts lol), but spending moderate amounts of money in good looking clothes can help.

Meh.  If you're in good shape you will look better in cheap clothing that fits well than an unfit person in expensive designer wear that fits well.

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2015, 08:23:34 AM »
Being good looking goes further so spend money on plastic surgery instead of bmw is better for career... since people don't do this

the money spent is just on ego... thinking you deserve the new car... then justifying it afterwards
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 08:25:26 AM by eyem »

Bucksandreds

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2015, 08:59:15 AM »
Being good looking goes further so spend money on plastic surgery instead of bmw is better for career... since people don't do this

the money spent is just on ego... thinking you deserve the new car... then justifying it afterwards

Good point.  Well done plastic surgery could honestly be considered an investment in yourself but more often than not, that would just be used as an excuse that people would use to convince themselves to have the surgery.

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2015, 09:03:05 AM »
So how is that excuse different than op asking about getting a new car or clothes for appearances?

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2015, 09:07:55 AM »
People's perception of you is what matters.
If you're in good shape you will look better in cheap clothing that fits well than an unfit person in expensive designer wear that fits well.
No one cares about my car but when they get in it, it's spotless. That says a lot more than a label.


I agree with all of this.  In the legal profession, appearance unfortunately matters.  I don't much care about the brand name of my professional attire, but I do care that it is fits me well and that it is well made.  I often find that inexpensive clothing lines are poor quality, fit my relatively-in-shape body like a tent, or both.  Wearing them would convey make me appear unkempt.  Thus, I do end up buying name brand clothes.  My dedication to mustachianism dictates, though, that I purchase versatile articles of clothing on steep discounts and search for clothing that gives the best value for the dollar.  Also, learning to do your own simple alterations can go a long way toward giving you a sharp appearance. 

I care less about my car because far fewer people see my car than see me.  But a clean, well-maintained older vehicle can leave a better impression than a dirty newer car or a newer car that doesn't function properly.  I've seen many very well-to-do, important people who drive quite ordinary vehicles.  But the vehicles are almost always clean and well-maintained. 

That said, I should probably clean my car this evening because my execution of this philosophy leaves leaves a lot to be desired!




Retire-Canada

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2015, 09:20:19 AM »
I often find that inexpensive clothing lines are poor quality, fit my relatively-in-shape body like a tent, or both. 

I have the same problem.  Broad shoulders/chest and narrow waist.

GuitarStv

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2015, 09:30:48 AM »
I often find that inexpensive clothing lines are poor quality, fit my relatively-in-shape body like a tent, or both. 

I have the same problem.  Broad shoulders/chest and narrow waist.

It does exist out there.  When you find 'em don't dick around . . . Clear them out.  I purchased 10 dress shirts six years ago for about ten dollars each that claimed to have a 'European cut' (which apparently means non-baggy waist and room in the upper body).  That has been my professional wardrobe since.  I am really going to hate having to replace them . . . . Figure they've only got about two or three years left.

Seppia

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Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2015, 09:32:13 AM »
What is the amazing quality clothing that sells for ridiculously cheap new?  If you never spend money on clothing then, yes, it wouldn't be worth it to go out and shop for clothing that you don't need.  If you need nice clothes for work, which is what we are talking about here, and you have to spend time shopping for clothes anyway, it certainly is worth it to save hundreds of dollars on excellent condition, but otherwise expensive clothing.

I don't know your shopping habits, but in my working career (12 years so far) I have spent (ballpark)
Sports Coats:
- one Ferragamo suit for 150 euros, blowout sale.
- one Loro Piana blazer, 300 euros
- one random blue blazer, 100 euros
- one Emporio Armani blazer $250 (friends and family sale)
- one Gant blazer $150 (sample sale)

Pants:
Approximately 1 pair of new pants per year for $50-60 on average (Gant, Levi's, etc)

Shirts:
I rotate 7 shirts, on average a shirt lasts me 3 years. All Brooks Brothers discounted for $45-50

The total annual expense on stuff one could buy used (that's why I'm excluding shoes) is around $250 per year for super high quality stuff.
One could easily buy much cheaper (Costco has great shirts for under $20 for example, nobody needs to buy Armani stuff, etc), but let's use me as an example.

Now let's say your used stuff costs 1/5, so $50 per year on equivalent quality.
I don't know how you value your time but if you spend more than three hours per year researching used stuff (I would estimate it would take MUCH more if you have to retailor suits, look for the right sizes etc) it's just not a cost efficient use of time in my opinion.

charis

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2015, 09:48:55 AM »
My shopping habits involved 20 minutes at the suit section of a second hand shop every few months.  I don't do any research (I don't understand how that would apply) - I pop in and spend 30 seconds looking for my size.  If there is a suit in my size. I tried it on (10 minutes at most).  I am a business dress professional 6 years in, so my accumulation of suits has tapered in the last few years due to having enough clothing and two kids, but great purchases include, among others, perfect condition suits from from Brooks Brothers (~$30), Theory, and Ann Taylor.  I almost bought a Chanel suit once at a consignment shop, but I couldn't bring myself to part with $200.  The only tailoring I've had done is shorting the hem of one pair of pants, a five minute fitting.  Over the years I've saved probably thousands on my wardrobe for much less time than if I shopped at department store or outlet (which I hate).  If you are not a frequent visitor to second hand shops, you may not realize how often people give away barely worn or unworn clothing and shoes.  I won't considering anything that isn't in excellent condition or a top brand, so that cuts down on shopping time.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 09:52:21 AM by jezebel »

Kaplin261

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2015, 10:01:45 AM »
I was reading an article about how things like wearing name brands cause those around us to have unconscious perceptions about us that affect how they treat us.  So theoretically wearing a North Face jacket or driving a BMW may help us with our career or social lives.  I have been thinking that most people take spending to an extreme and spend more than they have and sometimes this forum pulls us to the opposite extreme and deprive ourselves in ways that could be hurting us.  Thoughts?

I don't know about vehicles but when it comes to clothes this is my logic and it only relates to men. The guys coming in for a interview always have a suit on that is to big.The ones at the bottom working there way up always have on very nice clothing that appears to be new. The ones at the higher end of the food chain I see these guys wearing jeans that look 10 years old with a old polo shirt tucked in with there shoes shining, however when there is a important event at work I see them in a suit.

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2015, 10:45:13 AM »
working way up? They have a new suit because they didn't own one before, hence too big because they thought it was uncomfortable since it wasn't fitted properly

ones at top, no one is brave enough to tell them to wear a suit :D

fitfrugalfab

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2015, 10:47:16 AM »
I think the key is to always try to buy experiences.  Things hardly ever amount to much but experiences are what life is about.
Sadly, I think experiences are not valued much by many.  AND, it is hard to engage in some experiences without spending a lot.
I guess figure out what experiences you value and try to spend the money on those.

+1. I couldn't agree more with you on this one.

fitfrugalfab

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2015, 10:51:42 AM »
I don't know where you live but in Ohio it definitely is.  They charge 50-100% more than many other quality brands and 200% or more over the cost of Walmart brands.  They are quality but you are definitely paying for much more than just quality, you are paying for the label.  I purchased a soft shell New Balance Jacket that, besides label, is 100% equivalent to North Face and paid about 66% less for it.  No one says nice jacket to me but they do to my wife's North Face version.  If you haven't recognized this then I would have to question your mustachianism.

My profile (right next to my post) says I live in Virginia, and I do. Not sure why you're confused there...

If you read my entire post, you'd see I got the jackets on deep discount (and only one within the last 2 years, FWIW). I bought them because of the reasons specified and because they fit the need and the budget, not because I care about the brand specifically.

Also not sure why not realizing that North Face is sometimes overpriced makes me non-mustachian??

Also from VA and I also own 3 North Faces. I own 3 because I do a TON of skiing and I like the fit of the jackets. 1 was also a gift and the other 2 I bought for $30 at an outlet mall on clearance. I agree with you- you can get North Faces for cheap.

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Re: Do Most of Us take it Too Far?
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2015, 10:57:04 AM »
Hmm...I guess I took it "far enough" to reach FIRE at a fairly young age, but not "too far" to feel at all deprived. Based upon my unique geographical locations I have always had access to amazing experiences that cost very little in comparison to the enrichment to my life they provide.