The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Exflyboy on September 16, 2014, 11:44:40 AM
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OK I know this will infuriate a number of readers but I have to ask.
My 17 year old cat who I love dearly is terrified of being put in a cat carrier and taken for a ride.. She has been to the vets once and the stress it caused was horrible.
Well now she has an infected tooth/teeth. I have been injecting her for 3 days with penicillin and the swelling is reducing in size and she is a lot more sprightly in herself. Still has some swelling and drooling going on but this is reducing each day.
But of course the root cause is the abscessed tooth... Personally I would rather put her down myself instantly with a well placed shot to the head rather than take her to the vet.. Not to mention the cost of the anesthesia, extractions etc... And believe me the cost is a secondary consideration.
So is there another alternative, wait for the tooth to fall out, abscess to burst etc?
Thanks
Frank
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You're risking the life, health and well being of your Feline Friend. Take her to the vet please!!!!
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Please don't let her suffer with an infected tooth. The stress of going to the vet will no doubt be terrible, but it can't be worse than living indefinitely with a painful tooth infection. If she is otherwise healthy, I don't know how you can justify putting her down.
Spray some Feliway in the carrier, give her some Rescue Remedy or theanine or calming treats, etc.
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Really, you'd rather kill your cat than put her through an hour of stress? What do you think your cat or you would prefer? Being scared to death or actually dying?
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Depending where you live, absolutely. There are several vets in my area who will make housecalls. Some do this only for euthanasia cases, but others have equipped vans/trucks and can provide at least some level of medical care that way -- I'd guess extending to a tooth extraction.
Random example of a list of such services (no idea where you live):
http://vetdispatch.com/ .
Costly, sure. But much less stress for the cat and for you.
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A 17 year old cat is approaching the age to which if you took her to the vet, they may indeed suggest that euthanasia is the most humane thing to do. It depends on the overall condition of your cat, obviously. I understand your dilemma..
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It's doable, if you really want to. It's not recommended though if you need to ask how.
Without sedation the cat will hate you. It's better to get someone else to do it so the cat will hate them instead.
Personally I'd wait till the penicillin has run its course and then see if it gets worse/better. Plus it'll be easier to pull without all the swelling, regardless of who's doing it.
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Thanks,
At this point I have not ruled out taking her to the vet.. She is responding to the antibiotic and a number of the vet websites say that the vet may even do the antibiotic thing before attempting to remove a tooth anyway..
On the flip side if I take her there and they recommend euthanasia then to be very blunt I would rather take her into the yard with a plate of tuna and apply the 22 caliber slug. she'll be dead instantly.
it may sound cruel but I think it is about the most humane way out.
Frank
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As noted above, please check around for a vet making house calls. I'm guessing there is one where you live. In urban areas, they are becoming more popular for house pets. In rural areas they are called in for farm animals and have been the norm forever. And they aren't always more expensive.
(and you deserve a face punch for going with the "don't go to a vet" solution to this years old problem. A better option would have been to slowly build up a tolerance to a carrier. I foster cats and the easiest thing to do is to feed them or give them regular treats in a carrier. Mine practically fight to get in one.)
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Thanks,
At this point I have not ruled out taking her to the vet.. She is responding to the antibiotic and a number of the vet websites say that the vet may even do the antibiotic thing before attempting to remove a tooth anyway..
On the flip side if I take her there and they recommend euthanasia then to be very blunt I would rather take her into the yard with a plate of tuna and apply the 22 caliber slug. she'll be dead instantly.
it may sound cruel but I think it is about the most humane way out.
Frank
Not quite sure if you're trolling with the slug comment or not... But if you're serious, then I agree, IF you have the stomach/heart for it. I can stomach something like that, but don't think I could do it to a beloved pet. That's your call.
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Nope not trolling, I don't expect it to be a popular position though
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On the flip side if I take her there and they recommend euthanasia then to be very blunt I would rather take her into the yard with a plate of tuna and apply the 22 caliber slug. she'll be dead instantly.
I'd rather pay for the vet to determine if euthanasia is the best course of action for the cat than to guess if killing my beloved cat is the way to go. Would I want to put down my cat if an infected tooth was fixable? It's not like your cat has terminal cancer.
she'll be dead instantly.
Do you think the vet is going to put down your cat inhumanely?
I'm sorry but what comes across from your posts is that you don't want to pay for the vet visit if it turns out euthanasia is recommended.
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Depending where you live, absolutely. There are several vets in my area who will make housecalls. Some do this only for euthanasia cases, but others have equipped vans/trucks and can provide at least some level of medical care that way -- I'd guess extending to a tooth extraction.
Random example of a list of such services (no idea where you live):
http://vetdispatch.com/ .
Costly, sure. But much less stress for the cat and for you.
I'll re-iterate this. We used a mobile vet for several years and it was a really well done, slick operation. Animals were much less stressed and really dealt with it well.
In the end we stopped using her, not because it cost more (and it did) but because we wanted a vet with a brick and mortar office we could go to in emergencies. Scheduling with the mobile vet was much less flexible. But it sounds like it might be ideal in this situation.
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On the flip side if I take her there and they recommend euthanasia then to be very blunt I would rather take her into the yard with a plate of tuna and apply the 22 caliber slug. she'll be dead instantly.
it may sound cruel but I think it is about the most humane way out.
Frank
Is this method any less humane? Probably not. A little more gruesome? To me yes, but I know a lot of farmers that have done the same thing to cows, horses, and cats.
Really, all that comes to mind is the scene from Me, Myself, and Irene.
Me, Myself, and Irene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7Yo0tWDgk)
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"She has been to the vets once..."
These are not wild animals. They are creatures living within your captivity. If you are too cheap to give an animal basic medical care, then do yourself and everyone a favor: When this one dies, DO NOT GET ANOTHER!
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An extraction could solve the problem and pulling a tooth is not rocket science. Where you will run into problems is with anesthesia. I doubt you could get what you need over the counter, and an older animal will have less tolerance (think Joan Rivers), necessitating close monitoring of vitals during the procedure. Although if the cat did pass due to the anesthesia during the procedure, it would likely be painless. Post op may be a concern as well. My dog had a canine removed and the vet sutured the gum shut, presumably to keep food out of the wound until it healed.
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Hang on a minute... Basic medical care?.. She has had all her shots and never had any health issues.. I cleaned her teeth etc
I wouldn't call that denying her care.
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"She has been to the vets once..."
These are not wild animals. They are creatures living within your captivity. If you are too cheap to give an animal basic medical care, then do yourself and everyone a favor: When this one dies, DO NOT GET ANOTHER!
My adult dogs go to the vet about as frequently as I go to the doctor... Never... GASP!!!! How are my dogs and I surviving?
Flyboy - Start putting treats in the carrier now. You still may want to take her to the vet at some point. Your pet so you can choose to do whatever you want. At 17, dealing with the tooth may be the same as euthanasia. If it's my cat, she would be making a one way trip to the vets office. If you're ok with doing it yourself, I don't see the problem.
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My adult dogs go to the vet about as frequently as I go to the doctor... Never... GASP!!!! How are my dogs and I surviving?
It may work our great for both of you. Or you may have a failing liver or kidney that a routine blood-screen could have picked up, and you will die 20 or 30 years before your time.
I generally think that is your choice to make for yourself. I generally thing it is not your choice to make for children - as they are too young to make their own choices - and all children should get routine medical care. Pets are somewhere in the middle. They can't make their own choices... but they are just pets, not people.
We make very different choices on pets vs people all the time, but it makes people uncomfortable. Person is 600 pounds overweight and has a ton of medical problems, spend millions of dollars on cancer treatment to try and get a year more of life. Pet is totally healthy but requires a $3000 hip replacement - vet would have no problem putting down.
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Just because the cat needs a tooth extracted does not mean that she needs to be put down. Cats can live to be over 20. Please, please, please never get another animal if this is the way you choose to do things.
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Just because the cat needs a tooth extracted does not mean that she needs to be put down. Cats can live to be over 20. Please, please, please never get another animal if this is the way you choose to do things.
It's 17, the vet may suggest it be put down anyway. Yes, they can live over 20 but that doesn't mean the vet will suggest the most humane thing to do is let it wither away. Again, it depends on the overall health of the animal. But he was suggesting that he would rather take care of ending it's life instead of the vet, IF the vet decided that euthanasia would be best. And he obviously hasn't neglected this animal, he's been giving it medication for a tooth infection and he cares enough for this animal to have this tough decision. There's plenty of owners out there that would do nothing for an infected tooth/might not even pay enough attention to the animal to even notice it.
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Ahh....a can of tuna and a 22 huh? Dude.....you're a complete tool! I'm assuming youre asking because you don't want to spend the money since it will alter your FIRE plans? This is about the most anti-mushracian thing I can think of.
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Ahh....a can of tuna and a 22 huh? Dude.....you're a complete tool! I'm assuming youre asking because you don't want to spend the money since it will alter your FIRE plans? This is about the most anti-mushracian thing I can think of.
Ugh. *grabs between eyes*
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Vets do not suggest putting down animals because they have an infected tooth. The cat has only been to a vet once in his life. People like this should not even own a goldfish. Cats often live to be very old and that is not inhumane. WTF are you even talking about putting this cat to sleep?
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Ahh....a can of tuna and a 22 huh? Dude.....you're a complete tool! I'm assuming youre asking because you don't want to spend the money since it will alter your FIRE plans? This is about the most anti-mushracian thing I can think of.
Ugh. *grabs between eyes*
Ok. I apologize for the comment OP. I'm just shocked that this way of thinking exist in the modern world....especially when it comes to pets. I love my dog as much as I love anyone of my family members so to hear things like this is rather upsetting.
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I would like to extract something from the OP with no anesthesia!
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Wow I always thought if I got some terminal disease that was going to lead to an early death I would take the same way out.. I'd use a 38 though..:)
I'm kinda surprised at the vitriol this developed and I am sorry if this has offended anyone.
I do think when the end comes, the "taking it to a vet to have it disappear behind closed doors" is more about protecting the owners emotional state rather than providing what is humane for the pet.
Sorry to upset you all but "home dispatch" method (IF, note IF required) seems less stressful to the animal on balance so that would probably be my choice.
It will break my heart to do but I feel its a more responsible approach.. not talking about what to do about the tooth here.
Frank
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This is a great topic. OP, I understand the concern for the stress involved for a 17 year old cat for questionable benefit. As others have said, I would look for a vet that makes house calls, let them know you have the swelling under control and just want the tooth pulled. And as someone mention, if you have to ask, please don't do the extraction yourself.
To those freaking out about a gunshot as a method of euthenasia, it's the quickest and most humane way to put down an animal (if done correctly, big caveat). It might not be the most humane for you, the owner, but with a distraction like food, the animal doesn't know what's coming, and doesn't feel anything. If I had the stomach for it I'd do that for our old dog when the time came, as she has fainting/seizure episodes and I think the drugged falling asleep will scare her (not to mention her hating the vet, and being really nervous with strangers in the home), but I don't think I could handle the mess/cleanup with all the other existing emotions going on.
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I do think when the end comes, the "taking it to a vet to have it disappear behind closed doors" is more about protecting the owners emotional state rather than providing what is humane for the pet.
This. To counter those above, I think anyone that does THIS should never have another animal again. I can't imagine letting someone take my dog or cat away, terrified, to be killed by a stranger without me there to comfort them in their passing.
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Vets do not suggest putting down animals because they have an infected tooth. The cat has only been to a vet once in his life. People like this should not even own a goldfish. Cats often live to be very old and that is not inhumane. WTF are you even talking about putting this cat to sleep?
Not because of an infected tooth, but because of deteriorated condition because of old age, yes they will. And you're fucking kidding right, about people like this not owning a goldfish? Again, the op has cared for his cat and is still caring for it. You must be only reading select parts of this thread and making some inhumane crime up in your mind....
There are times when it's more humane to put an animal to sleep. No, not just because of a toothache.
I would like to extract something from the OP with no anesthesia!
Dumb.
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I have not read all the posts, but would like to add my experience.
I have a cat who at 5 had a bad tooth. She was eating her food and you could tell something was wrong, she would stop eating and put her paw to her mouth and kind of shake her head.
I live in the country and took my cat to the country vet. I told her the symptoms and she handed me a pair of welding gloves and told me to hold down the cat for her. She opened up the cat's mouth and it was obvious that one tooth was rotten - it was at a strange angle and there was swelling.
She asked if I was okay with her just pulling it. She said she could put the cat under anesthesia, but she didn't think it was necessary. I said okay. She got this tool that looks like forceps - I held the cat and cat paws down and she opened up the cats mouth with her bare hands with the forceps and got the tooth and gave it a quick pull straight out. She was good at grabbing the tooth with the tool. The cat gave a quick cry and the tooth came out easily.
The vet looked around the mouth and spotted another bad tooth - it wasn't as bad, but it wasn't getting better. She asked and I said if she thought it was the right thing, it was fine for me. She grabbed that tooth and pulled and it came out quick as well.
It was over in about 5 minutes and I had a birds eye view and it isn't rocket science. It isn't hard and you can do it - I do think you should get someone else to help so you can have your hands free. Welding gloves were a good idea for the holder.
The cat hasn't held it against either me or the vet - she loves this vet to this day. Rural vets are also inexpensive - costs were $2 per tooth pulled and $8 for antibiotic to take for 10 days. - total of $12.
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This is a great topic. OP, I understand the concern for the stress involved for a 17 year old cat for questionable benefit. As others have said, I would look for a vet that makes house calls, let them know you have the swelling under control and just want the tooth pulled. And as someone mention, if you have to ask, please don't do the extraction yourself.
To those freaking out about a gunshot as a method of euthenasia, it's the quickest and most humane way to put down an animal (if done correctly, big caveat). It might not be the most humane for you, the owner, but with a distraction like food, the animal doesn't know what's coming, and doesn't feel anything. If I had the stomach for it I'd do that for our old dog when the time came, as she has fainting/seizure episodes and I think the drugged falling asleep will scare her (not to mention her hating the vet, and being really nervous with strangers in the home), but I don't think I could handle the mess/cleanup with all the other existing emotions going on.
I've administered ketamine, which is how cats are put to sleep, I also have had it administered to me as a sedative. Shooting your cat is not more humane and I hope that you are a troll because you are disgusting me. Ketamine lets you fall asleep quite peacefully, in a way a gun shoot never will. If you disagree, go try it on yourself.
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I live in the country where the .22 is a common way of dealing with old or sick animals, and for harvesting animals for food etc.
We had a cat who had a very bad cut on its leg and debated the idea of a vet visit. The cut eventually healed.
I think it's important to realize the O.P. has provided a good long life for his/her cat. In the same situation, I would probably opt for a consult at a minimum, but even that can be very expensive. We experienced this when one of our cats developed a bladder infection. One line of treatment included overnight observation and $$$, the other some antibiotics, special food and $$. We opted for the latter.
If you have a problem with shooting a sick or injured animal, don't eat beef. Sometimes cows aren't even adequately stunned (poked in the brain) before slaughter. I'm 100% sure the O.P. would be a careful shot in this case if it came to that.
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I live in the country where the .22 is a common way of dealing with old or sick animals, and for harvesting animals for food etc.
We had a cat who had a very bad cut on its leg and debated the idea of a vet visit. The cut eventually healed.
I think it's important to realize the O.P. has provided a good long life for his/her cat. In the same situation, I would probably opt for a consult at a minimum, but even that can be very expensive. We experienced this when one of our cats developed a bladder infection. One line of treatment included overnight observation and $$$, the other some antibiotics, special food and $$. We opted for the latter.
If you have a problem with shooting a sick or injured animal, don't eat beef. Sometimes cows aren't even adequately stunned (poked in the brain) before slaughter. I'm 100% sure the O.P. would be a careful shot in this case if it came to that.
Even those who do this on a regular basis miss. It is not a humane way of killing an animal AT ALL. A simple ketamine injection is not expensive, I doubt anyone on here would be unable to afford it. If you make the choice to shoot an animal instead of treat it humanely, you are a horrid human being. Don't get an animal if you don't plan to care for it, and that includes end of life care. This cat was lucky he or she did not have medical issues, but not all animals are that lucky. Anyone who is not willing to get their animals basic medical care should not have an animal.
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I have not read all the posts, but would like to add my experience.
I have a cat who at 5 had a bad tooth. She was eating her food and you could tell something was wrong, she would stop eating and put her paw to her mouth and kind of shake her head.
I live in the country and took my cat to the country vet. I told her the symptoms and she handed me a pair of welding gloves and told me to hold down the cat for her. She opened up the cat's mouth and it was obvious that one tooth was rotten - it was at a strange angle and there was swelling.
She asked if I was okay with her just pulling it. She said she could put the cat under anesthesia, but she didn't think it was necessary. I said okay. She got this tool that looks like forceps - I held the cat and cat paws down and she opened up the cats mouth with her bare hands with the forceps and got the tooth and gave it a quick pull straight out. She was good at grabbing the tooth with the tool. The cat gave a quick cry and the tooth came out easily.
The vet looked around the mouth and spotted another bad tooth - it wasn't as bad, but it wasn't getting better. She asked and I said if she thought it was the right thing, it was fine for me. She grabbed that tooth and pulled and it came out quick as well.
It was over in about 5 minutes and I had a birds eye view and it isn't rocket science. It isn't hard and you can do it - I do think you should get someone else to help so you can have your hands free. Welding gloves were a good idea for the holder.
The cat hasn't held it against either me or the vet - she loves this vet to this day. Rural vets are also inexpensive - costs were $2 per tooth pulled and $8 for antibiotic to take for 10 days. - total of $12.
+1
Thanks for answering the actual question instead of hypothesizing about the owner's suitability as an animal owner.
That said, even with the travel trauma, it is still slightly more humane to take her to the vet and get the vet to take out the tooth - with painkillers first . Even if the vet recommends euthanasia, they can't stop you from asking to fix the tooth and you'll see what happens.
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I live in the country where the .22 is a common way of dealing with old or sick animals, and for harvesting animals for food etc.
We had a cat who had a very bad cut on its leg and debated the idea of a vet visit. The cut eventually healed.
I think it's important to realize the O.P. has provided a good long life for his/her cat. In the same situation, I would probably opt for a consult at a minimum, but even that can be very expensive. We experienced this when one of our cats developed a bladder infection. One line of treatment included overnight observation and $$$, the other some antibiotics, special food and $$. We opted for the latter.
If you have a problem with shooting a sick or injured animal, don't eat beef. Sometimes cows aren't even adequately stunned (poked in the brain) before slaughter. I'm 100% sure the O.P. would be a careful shot in this case if it came to that.
Even those who do this on a regular basis miss. It is not a humane way of killing an animal AT ALL. A simple ketamine injection is not expensive, I doubt anyone on here would be unable to afford it. If you make the choice to shoot an animal instead of treat it humanely, you are a horrid human being. Don't get an animal if you don't plan to care for it, and that includes end of life care. This cat was lucky he or she did not have medical issues, but not all animals are that lucky. Anyone who is not willing to get their animals basic medical care should not have an animal.
In what way has OP shown he's unwilling to provide basic medical care? Cat is up to date on shots & has lived to 17 years old. Now, he's trying to take care of the cat's abcessed tooth; first by giving it antibiotics at home, then coming here for further input on how to take care of the cat's tooth. Like PP said above, none of this is rocket science. It costs me almost $150 every time I walk in the door at my vet. My dog has a yeast infection & I'm doing everything I can to treat at home before taking her to the vet, just like I would if it were me. The gunshot is a little gruesome to me and I don't really understand what it has to do with the tooth, but I also think it's unfair to say OP doesn't care about his pet.
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Hmm...Don't know if you've bonded with the cat, but I recently had to put down a cat and it was like putting down a good friend (I know some non-pet owners find this crazy - I probably would have once). It may not hit you until after, but if you have bonded I'll bet you'll feel similarly and would hope that you've done what you could to help it live or die with dignity. Euthanasia is not at all expensive relative to other veterinary costs. If the vet does not recommend euthanasia and instead just pulls the tooth humanely, then think of all the happy days and delicious tuna that cat will enjoy until it's actually time to say goodbye. If the vet does recommend euthanasia, many (including mine) will let you be in the room and even pet her as she drifts off. I was glad to see him off and trust that he was in capable hands as he died.
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Even those who do this on a regular basis miss. It is not a humane way of killing an animal AT ALL. A simple ketamine injection is not expensive, I doubt anyone on here would be unable to afford it. If you make the choice to shoot an animal instead of treat it humanely, you are a horrid human being. Don't get an animal if you don't plan to care for it, and that includes end of life care. This cat was lucky he or she did not have medical issues, but not all animals are that lucky. Anyone who is not willing to get their animals basic medical care should not have an animal.
You are joking, right? I spent a week walking round my family farm at 14 years old shooting sheep who had been caught in the Ash Wednesday bushfires. They all needed putting down. I did it with a gun, because it was the only humane way. There were several hundred, and it had to be done quickly because they were suffering. Injecting them "humanely" would have caused far more suffering.
Don't comment on things you have absolutely no clue about. I am not a horrid human being. I have no tolerance for people who spout off shit like that without knowing what they are talking about.
OP cares for his cat, that much is obvious. Like someone above said, I've seen vets pull teeth without anaesthetic, because the act of administering the anaesthetic and the recovery period when they come out cause far more trauma than a quick tooth pull. I definitely wouldn't do it without help (someone holding the poor bugger down!), but what he's asking is definitely not out of the question.
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Sorry ex flyboy that your cat is unwell. I felt similar thoughts when my cat was sick and too nervous and anxiety ridden to live a normal life. I thought he would be better off if he was out of the world rather than stressed in his everyday life. It was painful to watch.
The concern I have with the 22 method is what if something foes wrong. Cats brains are teeny tiny little things. What if you miss it and hit something else, then the cat runs and you've inflicted more suffering and now can't do anything about it?
I had another cat that was also terrified of the vet and carriers. My solution was to wear a big sweatshirt and just put the cat in the sweatshirt with me. She'd get nervous, and if she really wanted to, she could have crawled out of the neck, but she was quite comfy there and it seemed to soothe her. Once we got into the vet waiting room, she'd hear the other animals and smell the scents and she wouldn't move a muscle. She was like a rock in that sweatshirt and I'd just cradle that little lump and press her against my body. Then when we got into the exam room I'd lift up the shirt and she felt safe enough to be curious. It worked for us. Why don't you give that a try?
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I never drop off a animal when it is time to say goodbye. I stay with the baby as it simply falls to sleep and the last voice & touch it feels is mine. Many of our animals have needed dentals & they had anesthesia and were comfortable. Sorry but the OP is really mentally sick.
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I do think when the end comes, the "taking it to a vet to have it disappear behind closed doors" is more about protecting the owners emotional state rather than providing what is humane for the pet.
This. To counter those above, I think anyone that does THIS should never have another animal again. I can't imagine letting someone take my dog or cat away, terrified, to be killed by a stranger without me there to comfort them in their passing.
Wait. There are vets who wil do this behind closed doors without the people there with the pet? Dear God. In that case, a 22 at home is much better for the pet, if not for the poor owner.
Don't let the comments from those who aren't in your position get to you, Frank. See what the antibiotic does. See about a house call; you really don't want kitty blaming you for an extraction, and anyway you want all the swelling gone first. Is the tooth all that's going one?
The sweatshirt idea might be a good one, but laceration could also ensue.
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Forgot to mention, when it was finally time to say goodbye to kitty with renal failure, vet came to home and it was difficult but peaceful. You don't drop your animals off at the door unless you can't stand to be there with them. And if youre an anxious mess, then please don't pass that on the pet. They know when you're upset. Have your last moments be gentle and peaceful.
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I have never heard of a vet who would euthanize behind closed doors - all my pets have been cuddled by a family member while the shot was given. We have used euthanol, not ketamine, very easy on the animal.
OP's method would also work (euthanasia = fast, painless death) but needs skill. I would prefer to cuddle my pet, but cat+tuna is OK too.
Really though, 17 is not really old if the cat is healthy. Think a healthy 75-80 year old person. Cats loose teeth - the first time my cat had her teeth cleaned (horrible breath) she ended up losing 4 small teeth. Good breath, happy cat.
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I don't think Frank is much phased by other's opinions, but if he is, just wanted to chime in here that I get the .22 thing - and as far as missing, well, if my hubby can pick off a squirrel (with a much, much smaller head) from 10 yards away at an odd angle, surely Frank can make a shot from point blank range. I don't have anything to say on the extraction end, but good luck with it if you try to DIY!
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Please take your cat to the vet instantly and pay whatever money it costs like a responsible pet owner. No amount of money saved is worth it not giving your pet the best care they deserve. If you really mind then please simply do not get a pet in future. Do you really think that being FIRE sooner is worth it? I would caution you against the fact that you may someday regret your actions and that will stay with you for your entire life and no amount of money will fix that. Also, fwiw, I've had to let my one of my first cats go after only a year due to kidney failure. It was heartbreaking but in retrospect I am glad I was there with him and saw him gently doze off as if going to sleep. He was relaxed and while I can still shed a few tears over the memory I take solace in the fact that the end of his suffering was at least peaceful and with dignity.
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I never drop off a animal when it is time to say goodbye. I stay with the baby as it simply falls to sleep and the last voice & touch it feels is mine. Many of our animals have needed dentals & they had anesthesia and were comfortable. Sorry but the OP is really mentally sick.
I'm pretty sure it's you who are out of your mind.
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I think alot of this boils down to country/farmer vs city folk. They grow up learning different values for what animals are. That doesn't mean they don't care about them. But when a cow tries to jump over a fence, nearly get severed in half, gets stuck and dies, how do you get it off? Chainsaw. If you have 200 barn cats because you let them get out of control, how to do you handle it? .22.
I never drop off a animal when it is time to say goodbye. I stay with the baby as it simply falls to sleep and the last voice & touch it feels is mine. Many of our animals have needed dentals & they had anesthesia and were comfortable. Sorry but the OP is really mentally sick.
I'm pretty sure it's you who are out of your mind.
Politics, religion, and pets.
What is the best way to stir up internet message boards?
(Although the recent religion thread has been unusually respectful)
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MOD NOTE: Not gonna call out anyone in particular, but the personal attacks can stop now please. No matter how strongly you hold your opinion, I'm sure it's possible to share it without insulting OP or others.
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Politics, religion, and pets.
What is the best way to stir up internet message boards?
(Although the recent religion thread has been unusually respectful)
Yea, saw this coming the instant I read the OP. (I think he did too.) IMO there are things that you just don't bother to put on a message board.
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Tooth extraction for a cat is not that expensive, and even if the cat is 17 it shouldn't be that traumatic. I also seriously doubt a vet would offer euthansia for an infected tooth. So the cat doesn't like the carrier. That's called "being a cat." When we take our cats in for shots, it sounds like the Voyage of the Damned on the way over because all of them are yelling GAAAH THIS SUCKS I HATE THIS THING! in feline. If you have pets, there will be times that you have to spend money on them. We did have an eleven-year-old cat put down when we found he had liver cancer because the treatment would have been incredibly expensive and the vet told us it would only extend his life by a few months. And yes, we were accused of being cheap because of it. If the treatments would have brought him back to full health and given him years? We would have gladly paid.
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Tooth extraction for a cat is not that expensive... If you have pets, there will be times that you have to spend money on them.
Everybody keeps bringing this up, but OP has repeatedly stated that money is not the issue. He's FI and still working so he certainly has enough.
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Tooth extraction for a cat is not that expensive... If you have pets, there will be times that you have to spend money on them.
Everybody keeps bringing this up, but OP has repeatedly stated that money is not the issue. He's FI and still working so he certainly has enough.
He wrote that cost was a "secondary consideration" but still mentioned the expenses involved, which provoked my response and, I believe, some others' as well. If he thinks he can do the extraction himself, more power to him.
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It's pretty common to shoot pets to put them down, I thought. This is what you do if you are a farmer/hunter/etc.
Just because my city self has never shot a gun (unless beebee guns at girl scout count) doesn't mean someone with gun skills can't do it ethically.
Anyway, my opinion about pets is that once they reach a certain age, you put them down if the alternative is anything invasive. If they are already declining, then recovery from surgery is going to be rough. I don't know much about cats so I can't speak to what you should do, specifically. I would probably put the cat down if the antibiotics don't work, based has been posted in this thread.
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The point isn't really about whether or not putting down a cat by gunshot or by a vet's needle is better. Me? I prefer the latter as I have zero interest in shooting anything.
The point is that the OP doesn't know if his cat should be euthanized. The point is that he can and is able to consult a vet on the matter--whether the vet comes to the cat or vice-versa. Surely this is not a difficult point to grasp? If the vet determines the cat would be better euthanized, then more power to the OP should he take on the responsibility himself.
And the argument that pets are taken away and put down away from their owners is a strawman. There are plenty of vets who will euthanize your pet in your presence. They will even come to your home to do it so your pet is its own environment.
Again, through it all, the impression that comes across is that the OP fears he will pay for a vet visit (whether to the home or to the office) and be told the cat should be euthanized. And think geez, I could have saved the $50-100 and just shot the cat. If the OP is so sure euthanization is the best course of action for his cat, then there's not much more to discuss. Just spare us it's not really about the money. We often proudly admit it's about the money on numerous topics here--but in this post, there's a lot of tip-toeing...
There's no hard and fast rule on how each of us deals with our pets' health. But if you post it on a public board, be prepared to hear some opinions. $10K to give your cancer-ridden cat 3 more months on earth? Yeah, as much as I love my cats--common sense tells me I would probably opt not to use money for that purpose. A couple of hundred dollars (that I can easily afford) for an infected tooth? How soon can I make the appointment? My common sense tells me I shouldn't opt for putting my cat down without consulting a vet--over a toothache. YMMV.
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My 11 year old cat just had 5 teeth extracted. Take him to the vet to have that done. It wasn't that expensive, but more importantly, its not necessarily a simple procedure. Depending on the tooth (e.g. canines), the roots are very deep and its exceptionally painful. Additionally, if the tooth is truly decayed there is the potential for breakage and any remaining material will almost certainly become infected. If your cat is otherwise healthy, the vet isn't going to recommend you euthanize him. If there are other issues and the cat isn't healthy, then you'll be able to make an informed decision about treatment options moving forward.
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Ahh....a can of tuna and a 22 huh? Dude.....you're a complete tool! I'm assuming youre asking because you don't want to spend the money since it will alter your FIRE plans? This is about the most anti-mushracian thing I can think of.
+ 1 A few years ago, I had to put down our cat of almost 20 years. I think it cost me $50, maybe? I held him in my lap and stroked him and talked to him while the vet injected him. He had a peaceful death in my arms and that was priceless. I don't remember exactly what it cost but it wasn't expensive. We brought him home in cardboard coffin and buried him in the back yard under the azaleas where he used to roll in the dirt.
Another point to consider . . . depending on where you live (kind of neighborhood/ ordinances), discharging a firearm may be a crime.
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To the OP: good luck with the decision, however it goes.
I have a dog who's getting close to the "put him down?" decision point. This thread reinforces my belief that I surely won't ask what anyone outside of my family thinks about it.. nor do I give a rat's ass about unsolicited advice.
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Hey, I read the other threads, and I don't think anyone has suggested this yet. You could try calling around, asking vets to give you a prescription for kitty Valium to give her BEFORE you take her in. They metabolize it pretty fast (at least my guy does) but it really does put them into a pleasantly drugged state. I had some left over from a urethra obstruction, and I give it to him whenever I have to do something that stresses him out (most recently a hair cut). He turns into affectionate jelly for about 45 minutes, and doesn't care what happens to him at all. Give it, wait till she starts interacting with blank space, then tuck her into the carrier and let her trip while you drive to the vet.
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Sometimes it's not getting them in the carrier, but the drip itself that can be fairly traumatic for the animal.
My cat LOVES his carrier, and hangs out in it often, and stores his cat toys in there. But when we close him in and take him out to the car, once it starts moving he gets really worked up.
Mostly, I just talk to him, keep some fingers in the carrier so he can rub against my hand and tell him to suck it up, but just getting an animal comfortable with a carrier/crate won't fix all the other stresses the trip can cause.
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Thanks everybody,
I did find a mobile vet who is coming to have a look.. He said using the penicillin is the right thing to do (I discovered kitty had a badly swollen jaw when we came back from vacation) and she was mostly outside during that time.
So I started her on the antibiotic as soon as I was aware. She is responding to the antibiotic and the swelling is going down some.
Frank
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Thanks everybody,
I did find a mobile vet who is coming to have a look.. He said using the penicillin is the right thing to do (I discovered kitty had a badly swollen jaw when we came back from vacation) and she was mostly outside during that time.
So I started her on the antibiotic as soon as I was aware. She is responding to the antibiotic and the swelling is going down some.
Frank
Good news there. Do keep us posted on how she's doing.
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Thanks everybody,
I did find a mobile vet who is coming to have a look.. He said using the penicillin is the right thing to do (I discovered kitty had a badly swollen jaw when we came back from vacation) and she was mostly outside during that time.
So I started her on the antibiotic as soon as I was aware. She is responding to the antibiotic and the swelling is going down some.
Frank
Glad to hear it--good luck to you and the beast!
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Please take your cat to the vet instantly and pay whatever money it costs like a responsible pet owner. No amount of money saved is worth it not giving your pet the best care they deserve. If you really mind then please simply do not get a pet in future. Do you really think that being FIRE sooner is worth it? I would caution you against the fact that you may someday regret your actions and that will stay with you for your entire life and no amount of money will fix that. Also, fwiw, I've had to let my one of my first cats go after only a year due to kidney failure. It was heartbreaking but in retrospect I am glad I was there with him and saw him gently doze off as if going to sleep. He was relaxed and while I can still shed a few tears over the memory I take solace in the fact that the end of his suffering was at least peaceful and with dignity.
Are you serious?!? It's a 17 year old cat whom is already sick. The cat may have 6 months to live anyhow, and you suggest "pay whatever it costs..."
Is this MMM or PETA?
It's nuts to bring a 17 yr old cat to a vet to, which would very likely amount to enough stress in its own right to kill it, "pay whatever it costs" to maybe extend its life by a couple months?
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Tooth extraction for a cat is not that expensive... If you have pets, there will be times that you have to spend money on them.
Everybody keeps bringing this up, but OP has repeatedly stated that money is not the issue. He's FI and still working so he certainly has enough.
Eh, this changes things a bit. If you're FI and still working, pony up cheapass.
What else are you doing with all that extra money?
Give the cat a sedative and it will be find for the trip.
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Nice reversal their Okasha..:)
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Are you serious?!? It's a 17 year old cat whom is already sick. The cat may have 6 months to live anyhow, and you suggest "pay whatever it costs..."
Is this MMM or PETA?
It's nuts to bring a 17 yr old cat to a vet to, which would very likely amount to enough stress in its own right to kill it, "pay whatever it costs" to maybe extend its life by a couple months?
Eh, this changes things a bit. If you're FI and still working, pony up cheapass.
What else are you doing with all that extra money?
Give the cat a sedative and it will be find for the trip.
I'm glad this thread ended on Magnum PI giving conflicting advice. Epic Forum Fail :) Glad things seem to have worked out OK in the real world, despite the interwebs best efforts to kill the cat... Reminds me of Schrodinger's cat, is the cat we have never seen alive or dead??? Good luck Frank!
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I don't know what the best route would have been for you, but here are some things to think about.
If you choose to use the 22 method to dispatch now or in the future, remember that in some jurisdictions that can be considered animal cruelty and you can be charged criminally. I know this from first hand experience after my dogs tore into a feral cat but didn't finish the job. There was no saving the cat, broken neck, bleeding from the nose and mouth, and all the other gory details. I used a 9mm to end the creature's suffering and was promptly reported to the local police. Fortunately for me, I was able to explain my case to the officers that came out and they had a similar mindset on the situation and respected my election to own the situation created by my dogs.
I perform a lot of veterinary functions with my dogs on my own. Lacerations, infections, etc. I work closely with my vet and she has come to trust my ability to know what to do in a situation, as well as when to recognize that something is well above my skill/equipment level.
In this case, an abscessed tooth removal without anesthesia would likely cause as much stress as the cat carrier. The lasting pain afterward would perpetuate the stress. There may also be secondary infections/complications from the tooth removal. I would not think that is a DIY procedure without the proper tools.
I'm glad you consulted with a vet on this. Having a pet in a bad medical condition is always tough and the right answer is not always the most pretty.
In the future, consider something simple to dope up the cat for transport. I have used Benadryl with surprisingly effective results for DIY procedures on skittish dogs and cats, as well as transport.
Good luck to you and your cat.
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Thanks all,
The vet did come out and thought it was still a little too swollen to get in there. He also thought it could be a tumour but best to get kitty under sedation to get a better look.
His advice was another week of the penicillin injections as they are definitely helping reduce the swelling.
I thought she was on her way out yesterday but perked right up when Mom came home from work.. This morning she was on the bed demanding to be fed.
I think the tune/half&half milk shakes have been spoiling her..:)
So were not at the decision point yet.
Frank
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Awesome you were able to find a mobile vet and props to those whom recommended it; as that seemed to be the main concern for you in your first post, having to bring her in a carrier to the vet. Hope she gets better, and glad to see she is enjoying the spoiling. : )
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It's a difficult situation, to be sure. For what it's worth, I think you're doing the right thing - your primary consideration is your cat, not a few bucks; you found a good alternative in a mobile vet. A 17-year-old cat is not a very good candidate for extensive surgery. Your proposed method of putting it down, if it comes to that, is humane - just because us city folks don't do it doesn't mean it's not a perfectly valid thing to do. Fuck, I hope someone can do it for me when it's my time to go. I hope kitty lives a decent life for now.
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Our 8 year old kitty recently had 7 teeth extracted. We thought he only needed 2, but when they got into his gums they were a mess. He needed antibiotics for 10 days but was eating wet food heartily, right afterwards. We also had to put down his older 'brother' who was app. 16-17, soon afterwards. If you need to go that route or want to discuss with someone who's been/going through the feelings, message me.
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Okay. So first, you tie one end,of a string to a doorknob...
Really, if this guy isn't a troll of some kind I'd be a tad surprised. Why post a plea for help for your animal on a financial website? I'm thinking he's enjoying the debate that's been started regarding the right to life for kitties.
I also think that any humane method of putting down the animal is acceptable, if it's necessary. Why spend a huge amount of money when you can do it yourself for far less money. I had a dog euthanized and cremated a couple years ago and it cost a few hundred dollars. She was 155 pounds, so didn't want to spend too much time digging a grave afterwards, so cremations is best for my big dogs. Anyway, it's not like I had her dig her own grave, but I did make the responsible decision to put her down (had cancer) and it wouldn't have mattered if I'd done it with a gun, a shot of something or electrocution, she is dead now, and I have missed her. Rural members of this forum understand that animals are animals. It's not murder to kill your cat for humane reasons. It is murder to kill someone else's cat, I guess, but i digress...
Op should go to a veterinary forum or blog. There's lots of debate over ways to inexpensively and humanely kill your pets on a number of websites and forums. Maybe this debate belongs here, or maybe it doesn't... Moderator should at least move it to the DIY board
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Not sharing your exact values doesn't make somebody a troll.
If you'd like the post moved please report it instead of just posting here and hoping someone will notice.
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So the swelling had gone down some but it was clear she is not getting better.
Further examination by the vet revealed she has a tumour in her lower jaw and that never ends well. Add to that her age and well sadly Puddy Cats life is over.
We talked about the options of course, it was a lady vet this time. I suggested that I felt it was less stress for her to use the "farmer's home dispatch" method.. and amazingly she agreed.
Se even said because she is so scared of being handled that by the time they get the IV into her this would be a very high stress method, if I could handle it, the 22 was the best way.
She also made sure I knew how to find the spot.
I was a bit of a mess at this point as you can imagine.. Ive known PC longer than I have my Wife, this is going to be hard.
The vet didn't charge me a dime.. They have the humane society donation boxes at there office... I will of course go and donate the fee I wasn't charged accordingly.
I hope those that thought I was just being cruel to my cat or just wanted to save money at the expense of her suffering will think differently.
I think tomorrow morning will be the time to put her out of her pain.
Regards
Frank
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Sorry it had to end this way. Your love of your cat really showed in these posts.
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I'm so sorry for you and your furry friend. Hugs to you both.
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Sorry to hear..
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Not sharing your exact values doesn't make somebody a troll.
If you'd like the post moved please report it instead of just posting here and hoping someone will notice.
Actually, Mr. Global moderator, I share his values exactly, and if you'd read the post before responding, you'd know that. But the best place for this type of post is a vet forum. And, it looks like I DID report it in the right place since it got your attention. Are you targeting me because you don't share my exact values?
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Are you targeting me because you don't share my exact values?
You're not a victim. And nobody cares.
Frank, sorry for your loss.
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But the best place for this type of post is a vet forum.
Is that not a difference in values?
And, it looks like I DID report it in the right place since it got your attention.
Yeah except acting on that would encourage you to do it again when I'd rather you didn't
(http://storage1.ihigh.com/schools/4358/imgbin/30257.jpg)
Sorry for your loss Frank. I'm glad you found the advice you were looking for
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Oh, poor baby. Both of you. But especially you; it'll be harder on you, and she'll feel better afterwards.
You're doing the right thing, what's right for her, instead of selfishly making her suffer longer. More, you're putting yourself through a great deal of trauma to save her the distress of being handled by a stranger like that.
Remember she had a long life and was loved every day, tomorrow perhaps the most of all.
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I do think when the end comes, the "taking it to a vet to have it disappear behind closed doors" is more about protecting the owners emotional state rather than providing what is humane for the pet.
This. To counter those above, I think anyone that does THIS should never have another animal again. I can't imagine letting someone take my dog or cat away, terrified, to be killed by a stranger without me there to comfort them in their passing.
We had a "backyard cat" - we were semi-adopted by a cat someone else had abandoned, and we fed/petted outside. Eventually he vanished for over a month, and came back in terrible shape. Very thin, lethargic. Took him to the vet, turned out to be advanced cancer.
When the vet tech took him out of the exam room - my wife and I followed to the back room with the stainless tables and stayed with him, petting him until he was gone. It wasn't until afterward I realized they were probably taking him "away" so that we wouldn't have to be there for the end.
If a pet needs to die, there's nothing wrong with the bullet method done properly. Especially if the vet trip would terrify the pet and they instead could die after a favorite meal, in a peaceful setting they enjoy.
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Thanks all,
I got up early today as I thought the tumour was getting pretty big last night. My Wife has suggested we do it this afternoon but I'm not sure we can wait that long, she is starting to suffer.
Either way I am determined to be happy around the puss today as I don't want her picking up unhappy vibes before the event.
Today is business and we can fall apart afterwards.
Thankyou all for your support and considered debate. One thing is clear is that people take their pet's wellbeing very seriously and we all want the best for them when the end comes no matter what the method for doing the final deed.
All the best
Frank
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Oh, Frank, I'm so sorry. And yes, we do want the best at the end time.
Love from the Mandalay Beasts:
Meg
Mariah
Jasmine
Tiger
Smoky
Tasha
Max
Neo
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Thankyou, May the beasts live long and happy lives..:)
The final deed was done at 9am this morning, and yes it broke my heart. But it was instant and its over and she is not suffering anymore.
Frank
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You did the right thing.
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Wait so you shot your cat? Well I'm glad it was indeed over quickly. Trained shooters sometimes miss. I once saw someone shoot a hog. He missed the spot and then missed the jugular with a knife. The father had to come around with a knife, with the hog convulsing all the while...I hope it wasn't like that!
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no it was instant... point blank range with a 22 rifle, hollow point round.
I wouldn't have done it if I thought I couldn't do it right. Even the vet agreed it was the best way.. Which I found amazing to be honest.
Frank
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Frank, I'm sorry about the kitty. Glad it's over and she's not hurting. I'm sure the reason the vet agreed with you was because she wanted the same thing you did: the best, calmest, happiest end for your cat. It's a rare and good thing that you were able to empathize with your cat's own experience of the world and set your own aside for her wellbeing.
Death is hard and complicated and we lie about it too much in this culture. You deserve much more kindness than you were shown in coming to a familiar and friendly place for help when you needed input, but it sounds like coming did make the option of a vet visit at home, and the right path to take, clear. Good on you for reaching out. Take care and take time for yourselves while you get used to her being gone.