Author Topic: Divorce and restarting  (Read 5913 times)

macleod7066

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Divorce and restarting
« on: August 23, 2016, 09:59:09 PM »
Hey all, new member here, some quick things about myself, 34, work for the Government, and have a beautiful 10 year old girl who is a handful.  Funny thing is that I first read/heard about Mr. Money Mustache, 4 years ago but the wife was never on board so kind of fizzled out.  Well, fast forward a couple years and the wife decides to leave, her  loss.  Filed in late July, and have a 90 day period before it becomes final.  She moves out September 1st.  Just trying to get started with the Mustachian way, which is how I already viewed "time value" of money anyways, but got some questions on the best avenues to take.  Any input would be greatly appreciated because there are so many options. 

Salary: Right around $100k, with an additional Tax Free VA disability of $17,000 a year.

First house - $270K owe $250K, VA Loan at 3.75% - Current Mortgage $1850
Second House - $50K owe $65K, at 6.5% - current mortgage $850, renting for $850.  Effectively a net loss each month.
401K - $75000, putting in roughly $15,600/yr including employer match.  I put in 10% myself.
Investment account (Scottrade)$ 7k (Pepsi, Coke and Wells Fargo, all equal amounts $2300ish.)
Cash: $5kish

Wife is giving me everything, she just wants out to be with another guy, so, that is all mine through the divorce.  But, I have to pay her roughly $769/mo in child support 50/50 custody.  I am trying to get my savings rate up to 65% to retire early, but I am not seeing a way.  Next month I will have a better handle on solo expenses when she moves out, but I am roughly budgeting $2500 a month, not including mortgage payments.  Total with everything almost $6k in expenses, with $3469 unavoidable.

So, now the questions.

Is the second house worth keeping?  Should I just take the $10-$15k loss and get rid of it?
Should I max out my retirements instead of saving cash? Should I be doing an IRA as well?
Should I rent my current house (way to big for just me) and get around $2200/mo, but live in an apartment?  I have to stay in the same school district, second house is in a bad school district.
Should I sell my current house instead of renting?  Just to get out of the $1850 payment?
Should I move out of my Scottrade and into Vanguard?  I have been wanting to do ETF/Index trackers.

What is the best avenue to take, reduce all the mortgages and start fresh, or take the longer route and rent my main house and use the money to offset the first?  Is it too soon to be making a decision like this?  I want to start fresh, but too many avenues are making my head spin.  Please, if possible, can I get an objective opinion from the abundance of intelligent individuals on this forum.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 09:52:27 AM »

Is the second house worth keeping?  Should I just take the $10-$15k loss and get rid of it?
Should I max out my retirements instead of saving cash? Should I be doing an IRA as well?
Should I rent my current house (way to big for just me) and get around $2200/mo, but live in an apartment?  I have to stay in the same school district, second house is in a bad school district.
Should I sell my current house instead of renting?  Just to get out of the $1850 payment?
Should I move out of my Scottrade and into Vanguard?  I have been wanting to do ETF/Index trackers.


Sorry to hear about the divorce.

Sell the second house. If you are losing money each month on an investment, it is not an investment at all. Better to stop the bleeding asap.  You may be able to take a tax write off on the loss.

You should sell your current house. At $2200 rent and cost of $270k, it does not meet the 1% rule. Also, not enough cash flow (Rent - Mortgage) to pay for any maintenance. My suggestion is to fix it up (cosmetic changes) from now till March and put it on sale then. March-July is the best season to sell a house. Additionally, your daughter will not face her parents divorce and the loss of a home at the same time.

Yes, max out your retirement accounts. It will reduce your taxes. You need to make the call if you can live on the money left over.

Lastly, about investing. Do you want  "Look Mama, no hands" type of investing or a  "I know the hell of a lot about these companies, I will slice and dice their annual statements" type of investing? If the first, sell your stock and move to Vanguard and buy ETF's or Mutual funds with very low expenses. Make sure you have an asset allocation strategy when you go this path.

The next few months will be hard. Feel free to vent or ask for advice from this forum. I have never found a better set of people and advice than on this forum.

MayDay

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2016, 10:11:05 AM »
I vote sell both houses in the spring (spend the winter doing minor cosmetic upgrades and decluttering).  Let things settle for now.  No opinion on renting an apartment vs. buying a smaller house in the spring, depends on your local housing market. 

Miss Piggy

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 11:45:42 AM »
Unrelated to your questions, I  find the child support with 50/50 custody interesting. Why child support if, in theory, you each have the child half the time? Is it due to income differential? (Just curious...nothing more.)

gggggg

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 12:02:20 PM »
If it were me, I'd sell both houses and either buy a cheaper house, or rent cheaply. Definitely sell the second house at minimum.
I would have more in cash than 5k at your salary. After establishing more cash, I would then ramp up the retirement.
The taxable account could go either way depending on your style.



JustGettingStarted1980

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 01:08:23 PM »
Sorry about the divorce.

If your goal is Early Retirement, than Max out your 401K for the full 18K/year.  My understanding is that federal jobs often have 403B/459 plans as well, have you explored this?

Sell the money losing house -> research the concept of "sunk costs" to better understand why.

I agree the house you are currently living in may be a bit too much at this time. I also agree that should you sell it, doing so in the springtime would be ideal.

Posting a budget here might be facepunch worthy, and lead to some more constructive criticism.

yuka

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 01:49:37 PM »
This is probably the least of your concerns, but I think it's funny that you're invested in both Coke and Pepsi. Since they're direct competitors, doesn't that just mean you're betting on a strong market of selling processed sugars? I don't exactly consider myself an activist, but I do like to invest in things that I don't dislike.

macleod7066

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2016, 06:21:24 PM »
Thank you all for the feedback, it was generally what I was leaning towards.  Keep the advice coming, just starting out in this lifestyle there is for sure going to be growing pains, in addition to the emotional ones for my daughter and I.

The net loss on the investment property is what is killing me at the moment, just have to generate enough cash to unload it at a 15k loss.

My current property I am also of like mind to selling it, one it is way to big, and you all confirmed my fears that it would be a waste to try and rent it.  I do lose about 25k of my net worth if I sell it because of the little bit of equity in there.  That doesn't make a difference does it?

One thing I didn't see an answer for yet, does maxing retirement also mean the $5500 in a traditional IRA or just the 401K?

My understanding is that federal jobs often have 403B/459 plans as well, have you explored this?
Not at all, I must of glazed over them, I will look into them post haste, thank you.

Posting a budget here might be facepunch worthy, and lead to some more constructive criticism.
I wish I could, I have no clue what the true expenses are for a single guy and his daughter, for 10 years it has always been the 3 of us, so next month is the true test of what I can sustain.  There will still be facepunch worthy stuff I am sure, and I am hoping Mint shows me how hard I should punch myself.

Lastly, about investing. Do you want  "Look Mama, no hands" type of investing or a  "I know the hell of a lot about these companies, I will slice and dice their annual statements" type of investing? If the first, sell your stock and move to Vanguard and buy ETF's or Mutual funds with very low expenses. Make sure you have an asset allocation strategy when you go this path.

The next few months will be hard. Feel free to vent or ask for advice from this forum. I have never found a better set of people and advice than on this forum.

Thank you for this, it is exactly what I was leaning towards.  I did speculative biopharms and made decent money, but it was just to much to micromanage.  I just want to buy, have automatic reinvestment of my dividends, and forget about it for 10 years.  A plus would be for it to automatically balance it every quarter, but I do not think Vanguard can do that yet.

Unrelated to your questions, I  find the child support with 50/50 custody interesting. Why child support if, in theory, you each have the child half the time? Is it due to income differential? (Just curious...nothing more.)
Yeah, this is strictly due to income disparity.  I make 100k she makes 40k, so the law in PA is that you can reduce your liability of child support based on the percentage of time you have with the child over 30%.  Since I am roughly 70/30 income wise, I get a reduction in the full child support and only have to pay 50% of that amount, plus child care expenses, etc.  I understand the need for Child Support, but taking a $769 loss each month, kind of eats into your savings rate.

This is probably the least of your concerns, but I think it's funny that you're invested in both Coke and Pepsi. Since they're direct competitors, doesn't that just mean you're betting on a strong market of selling processed sugars? I don't exactly consider myself an activist, but I do like to invest in things that I don't dislike.
Yep, I don't mind a carbonated beverage every once in awhile, but the reason for investing is more unemotional.  Coke and Pepsi, normally rise together because demand is almost the same for each type.  All 3 pay roughly a 3% dividend and I was first turned onto Coke and Wells Fargo by Warren Buffets books.  Pepsi, was just a good earner year over year as well when I bought them.  Funny, but only Pepsi has given much of a return this year so far.

Cwadda

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2016, 06:28:36 PM »
Sorry about the divorce, it's never a nice thing.

What about the option of refinancing? Interest rates are super low right now from my recent experience.

macleod7066

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2016, 06:59:42 PM »
Sorry about the divorce, it's never a nice thing.

What about the option of refinancing? Interest rates are super low right now from my recent experience.

Is it not sunken equity for the second home already?  Would that be smart to just refi it?  It is also underwater.

MoonLiteNite

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2016, 07:42:30 PM »
With that kind of monthly child support payment, it might be worth getting a lawyer to get that shit thrown out.
if it is 50/50, the other person should't get any type of support.

yuka

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2016, 08:43:26 PM »
With that kind of monthly child support payment, it might be worth getting a lawyer to get that shit thrown out.
if it is 50/50, the other person should't get any type of support.

I am very much not a lawyer, but if the dust hasn't settled yet, I would really hesitate to pick a fight when already ending up with all the real estate.

.22guy

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2016, 08:52:01 PM »
Ah, good ol' splitting time with the kid 50/50 mommy support.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised how low you can make your budget now.  That was sure my experience and several of my male divorced friends.  Whatever you do, don't get fuckin' married again.  As a guy pulling in 100K, you will be a prime target. 

Best of luck to you.

etselec

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2016, 08:59:27 PM »

Lastly, about investing. Do you want  "Look Mama, no hands" type of investing or a  "I know the hell of a lot about these companies, I will slice and dice their annual statements" type of investing? If the first, sell your stock and move to Vanguard and buy ETF's or Mutual funds with very low expenses. Make sure you have an asset allocation strategy when you go this path.

The next few months will be hard. Feel free to vent or ask for advice from this forum. I have never found a better set of people and advice than on this forum.

Thank you for this, it is exactly what I was leaning towards.  I did speculative biopharms and made decent money, but it was just to much to micromanage.  I just want to buy, have automatic reinvestment of my dividends, and forget about it for 10 years.  A plus would be for it to automatically balance it every quarter, but I do not think Vanguard can do that yet.


Vanguard LifeStrategy and Target Retirement funds effectively rebalance themselves, because they mix stocks and bonds in the same fund. There are possible tax advantages to be had, and slightly lower expense ratios, from choosing regular index funds instead but these mixed funds are a "good enough" choice if you really don't want to deal with rebalancing. (Really though, rebalancing can be once a year and take 5 to 10 minutes, it's not such a big deal...)

Best of luck as you get used to this "new normal."

macleod7066

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2016, 09:23:08 PM »
With that kind of monthly child support payment, it might be worth getting a lawyer to get that shit thrown out.
if it is 50/50, the other person should't get any type of support.

I am very much not a lawyer, but if the dust hasn't settled yet, I would really hesitate to pick a fight when already ending up with all the real estate.

Yeah, I agree, but the real estate will be a net loss once I am done selling.  I actually do not want either house lol.  Unfortunately though, in PA it is state law, and a lawyer cannot do anything for me.  I am actually getting out lucky, if it went through the state I would be paying 1000 roughly.  She agreed to less.
Vanguard LifeStrategy and Target Retirement funds effectively rebalance themselves, because they mix stocks and bonds in the same fund. There are possible tax advantages to be had, and slightly lower expense ratios, from choosing regular index funds instead but these mixed funds are a "good enough" choice if you really don't want to deal with rebalancing. (Really though, rebalancing can be once a year and take 5 to 10 minutes, it's not such a big deal...)

Best of luck as you get used to this "new normal."

Thank you, I will definitely look into those funds, re-balancing is just a nice to have really.  I think I can get by without and get lower fees. 
My strategy is going to look something like this if I can swing it.  This came from an old finance friend in college.  35% S&P 500, 25% S&P 400, 10% Russell 2000, 15% EAFE, and 15% EEM.  Not sure if Vanguard has all of them.

The Money Monk

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2016, 12:07:27 AM »
so You don't want either house, but you don't want to fight it because you might have to pay 1000 a month instead of 800?

You already said the one house is a net loss every month, so by keeping it you are already losing more than the 800 a month. Seems like she is 'letting' you have the houses because they are an anchor to her too, not out of the goodness of her heart.

I'd tell her tough shit, we're splitting the houses (profits OR expenses).


If you do end up keeping the houses, I would save up for 18 months or so and pay off house #2 completely. 65K isn't a lot to start bringing in 850 a month.  (or you could move in there, Then you can sell the other house. )

macleod7066

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2016, 06:58:47 AM »
so You don't want either house, but you don't want to fight it because you might have to pay 1000 a month instead of 800?

You already said the one house is a net loss every month, so by keeping it you are already losing more than the 800 a month. Seems like she is 'letting' you have the houses because they are an anchor to her too, not out of the goodness of her heart.

I'd tell her tough shit, we're splitting the houses (profits OR expenses).


If you do end up keeping the houses, I would save up for 18 months or so and pay off house #2 completely. 65K isn't a lot to start bringing in 850 a month.  (or you could move in there, Then you can sell the other house. )

I agree 100% and that is what I was attempting to do, but my lawyer advised against it.  Basically she is not asking for anything, including Spousal Support/Alimony, or touching my 401k Retirement which she is entitled to half of. 

Wish I could just move in the other house, but 1) Bad School District, and 2) current renter in there.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2016, 10:20:09 AM »
If it makes you feel any better, I am probably going to be out about $75,000 on the matrimonial home (once it gets sold) after my divorce.

Usually the less spendy partner finds they have more ready cash after the divorce, so sometimes it is the ex-husband and sometimes it is the ex-wife.  Given you are here, your budget should be OK.

Good luck with it all.

K-ice

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2016, 11:19:57 AM »
Sorry about the divorce, I've been trough 2... as a child. And consoled 1/2 a dozen friends.

I am glad you realize she is not being "generous" by "giving" you the homes.  It sounds like a net zero gain.

However, I am in favor of doing whatever it takes to settle things amicably and it sounds like you are not fighting and have a good agreement. I don't see any major red flags and even some good deals for you.

It really sucks that you make more money (small sarcasm) and you need to pay child support. 100K to 40K is quite a difference & that that is why the laws are in place.  However, what you are paying is higher than what you would pay in Canada.

100K = 868/month full custody to other parent
40K = 314/month full custody to other parent

50:50 custody with those incomes = 868-314 = 554/month  (+ your share (71%) of medical, daycare. ..  71% because 100/(100+40) = 71%)  Maybe your amount already takes into consideration those extras estimated.

Also, I am totally throwing out a stereotype here but moms are more likely to take little girls shopping for day to day things. With the 50:50 custody you are both still responsible for buying day to day things even though she is getting some support.

Still, just double check your state rules and calculators. Again she may be pretending to be "generous" with the child support ask.   
Here as well, you can always revisit child support. So I wouldn't fight for a few hundred dollars now but maybe look at the numbers in 2 years. Your incomes will have changed by then anyway.

She is being generous with retirement funds and alimony. You were together for over 10 years.  Have you seen that "Start the car!" IKEA commercial? That is how I feel for you. Once Alimony and property is divided it cannot be questioned (unless someone lied & hid assets).

I would definitely keep the family home until the 50:50 custody is set in stone (1-2 years) you can show it provides stability for the kids. The courts look at the "Best interests of the children" and as long as you can afford it put their interests first. Once things are settled they may be excited looking for a new home/condo with daddy.   

I don't know what I would do with the rental. Maybe post a case study in the real-estate section and see what they have to say.  I think I would sell to stop the bleeding. You can loose 15K now or another 10K over the next year.

The Money Monk

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2016, 12:36:12 PM »
so You don't want either house, but you don't want to fight it because you might have to pay 1000 a month instead of 800?

You already said the one house is a net loss every month, so by keeping it you are already losing more than the 800 a month. Seems like she is 'letting' you have the houses because they are an anchor to her too, not out of the goodness of her heart.

I'd tell her tough shit, we're splitting the houses (profits OR expenses).


If you do end up keeping the houses, I would save up for 18 months or so and pay off house #2 completely. 65K isn't a lot to start bringing in 850 a month.  (or you could move in there, Then you can sell the other house. )

I agree 100% and that is what I was attempting to do, but my lawyer advised against it.  Basically she is not asking for anything, including Spousal Support/Alimony, or touching my 401k Retirement which she is entitled to half of. 

Wish I could just move in the other house, but 1) Bad School District, and 2) current renter in there.

Ok, but its still an option to quickly pay off house #2 and start making some decent income from it. 850 a month from $65K is pretty decent returns. Then I would sell the house and rent a cheap little place, and exhale loudly as you embrace your newfound peace and enjoyable spartan lifestyle.

K-ice

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2016, 12:49:33 PM »
so You don't want either house, but you don't want to fight it because you might have to pay 1000 a month instead of 800?

You already said the one house is a net loss every month, so by keeping it you are already losing more than the 800 a month. Seems like she is 'letting' you have the houses because they are an anchor to her too, not out of the goodness of her heart.

I'd tell her tough shit, we're splitting the houses (profits OR expenses).


If you do end up keeping the houses, I would save up for 18 months or so and pay off house #2 completely. 65K isn't a lot to start bringing in 850 a month.  (or you could move in there, Then you can sell the other house. )

I agree 100% and that is what I was attempting to do, but my lawyer advised against it.  Basically she is not asking for anything, including Spousal Support/Alimony, or touching my 401k Retirement which she is entitled to half of. 

Wish I could just move in the other house, but 1) Bad School District, and 2) current renter in there.

Ok, but its still an option to quickly pay off house #2 and start making some decent income from it. 850 a month from $65K is pretty decent returns. Then I would sell the house and rent a cheap little place, and exhale loudly as you embrace your newfound peace and enjoyable spartan lifestyle.

"Second House - $50K owe $65K, at 6.5% - current mortgage $850, renting for $850.  Effectively a net loss each month."

Wait!  Why are you paying a $850 mortgage on a $65K loan?

Maybe taxes and insurance are bundled with the payment.

Even at 6.5% for only 10 years I get $738.  Refinance it out to 25 years and the payment drops to $439.

I recommend slow and steady for rentals so you can build a good emergency fund and the tenant pays the interest anyway. 

You will probably need to do some title changes and refinancing with the divorce anyway.  I would look at a way to make this rental less of a burden before you sell it at a loss.


b4u2

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2016, 12:51:54 PM »
When I got divorced I couldn't afford to sell the house or keep it. What ended up doing was renting rooms. I had the basement rented out and then two bedrooms on the second floor rented out. We all shared the main floor which was kitchen and living room. This doesn't work for everyone or every area but at least it worked for me. Most of my tenants worked for the same company I do and they do background checks so that saved me a little stress and paperwork.

mm1970

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2016, 02:03:54 PM »
so You don't want either house, but you don't want to fight it because you might have to pay 1000 a month instead of 800?

You already said the one house is a net loss every month, so by keeping it you are already losing more than the 800 a month. Seems like she is 'letting' you have the houses because they are an anchor to her too, not out of the goodness of her heart.

I'd tell her tough shit, we're splitting the houses (profits OR expenses).


If you do end up keeping the houses, I would save up for 18 months or so and pay off house #2 completely. 65K isn't a lot to start bringing in 850 a month.  (or you could move in there, Then you can sell the other house. )

I agree 100% and that is what I was attempting to do, but my lawyer advised against it.  Basically she is not asking for anything, including Spousal Support/Alimony, or touching my 401k Retirement which she is entitled to half of. 

Wish I could just move in the other house, but 1) Bad School District, and 2) current renter in there.

"Get tough" etc etc - ignore that...you are doing the right thing here.  You could get off MUCH worse.  (I have a friend whose wife only wanted her computer and $5000.  He was angry that during their marriage, he paid the mortgage, put money into the stock market, paid the bills, and her income was hers to do whatever she wanted.  She made 1/2 of what he did.  I said "dude, she could take HALF, give her the money!!")

(On the flip side, my next door neighbors bought the house 4 years ago.  It was a foreclosure.  They'd been dating 7 years.  Got married last summer.  5 months later she wants out, wants half the equity.  Nevermind that he bought the house by himself and paid the bills.  When they got married it was half hers!)

Anyway, sell the houses in the spring.  Get an apartment.  Start saving some dough!  I agree with most of the others...401k, Vanguard.

Child support sounds reasonable to me, as a parent of a 10 year old.

CheapskateWife

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2016, 02:14:22 PM »
OP, you seem to have your head on straight about these issues.  While you have skirted mention of feelings in this procedure, I must commend you for taking the non-confrontational approach.  That you sever the marriage with as little conflict as possible will make life so much easier for you as you attempt to co-parent your daughter with her mother.  Civility will need to rule your behavior in those matters, and you are already off to a good start.

IMO, the rent house situation could be made more profitable with a refi to a more reasonable rate, and if you are not having to share future retirement benefits, you are indeed in a good position. 

Good luck and don't forget to make sure your little girl knows this isn't her fault.  Hoping you have access to a counselor if your daughter needs someone to talk to.  Might be a good idea to talk with her mother about this now and agree on it in advance should it become necessary.  Kids really take their parents' divorce personally and being willing to get her help may become important.

macleod7066

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Re: Divorce and restarting
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2016, 10:34:04 PM »

Still, just double check your state rules and calculators. Again she may be pretending to be "generous" with the child support ask.   
Here as well, you can always revisit child support. So I wouldn't fight for a few hundred dollars now but maybe look at the numbers in 2 years. Your incomes will have changed by then anyway.

She is being generous with retirement funds and alimony. You were together for over 10 years.  Have you seen that "Start the car!" IKEA commercial? That is how I feel for you. Once Alimony and property is divided it cannot be questioned (unless someone lied & hid assets).

I would definitely keep the family home until the 50:50 custody is set in stone (1-2 years) you can show it provides stability for the kids. The courts look at the "Best interests of the children" and as long as you can afford it put their interests first. Once things are settled they may be excited looking for a new home/condo with daddy.   

I don't know what I would do with the rental. Maybe post a case study in the real-estate section and see what they have to say.  I think I would sell to stop the bleeding. You can loose 15K now or another 10K over the next year.

These are great points, thank you.  I did not think about the stable housing environment as a bonus, and will definitely have to take that into consideration.  I also agree with the IKEA reference, the last 60 days cannot come soon enough to finalize.


Ok, but its still an option to quickly pay off house #2 and start making some decent income from it. 850 a month from $65K is pretty decent returns. Then I would sell the house and rent a cheap little place, and exhale loudly as you embrace your newfound peace and enjoyable spartan lifestyle.

"Second House - $50K owe $65K, at 6.5% - current mortgage $850, renting for $850.  Effectively a net loss each month."

Wait!  Why are you paying a $850 mortgage on a $65K loan?

Maybe taxes and insurance are bundled with the payment.

Even at 6.5% for only 10 years I get $738.  Refinance it out to 25 years and the payment drops to $439.

I recommend slow and steady for rentals so you can build a good emergency fund and the tenant pays the interest anyway. 

You will probably need to do some title changes and refinancing with the divorce anyway.  I would look at a way to make this rental less of a burden before you sell it at a loss.


Yep, I had taxes and insurance in both payments as they are escrowed in.  I should have been clearer with that.  In addition the loan was 80k at 6.5% for that rate.  Taxes and insurance about 3200 roughly.  Biggest concern is am I just throwing money to an underwater house?  In order to Refi, I will need to bring the loan down to about 50k, to even attempt it, but will take the same loss if I was to sell it.   This is definitely something to ruminate on.

OP, you seem to have your head on straight about these issues.  While you have skirted mention of feelings in this procedure, I must commend you for taking the non-confrontational approach.  That you sever the marriage with as little conflict as possible will make life so much easier for you as you attempt to co-parent your daughter with her mother.  Civility will need to rule your behavior in those matters, and you are already off to a good start.

IMO, the rent house situation could be made more profitable with a refi to a more reasonable rate, and if you are not having to share future retirement benefits, you are indeed in a good position. 

Good luck and don't forget to make sure your little girl knows this isn't her fault.  Hoping you have access to a counselor if your daughter needs someone to talk to.  Might be a good idea to talk with her mother about this now and agree on it in advance should it become necessary.  Kids really take their parents' divorce personally and being willing to get her help may become important.
Thank you for this, funny how being able to mask emotions can hurt a marriage, but be a strength when ending one.  Although, I still have the seething anger and rejection, it is easy enough to control most days.  I agree 100% with the civility, and you opened my eyes that I should still be nicer than I am being.  The resentment I feel has been showing a little too much.  It is not about me or my wife, it is about that beautiful girl.  We already talked about counseling, but my daughter has taken it in stride so far.  We will see when the wife moves out how that affects her though, I still do not think she understands fully.  I came here for solely financial advice thinking I had the emotional down, but it goes to show that I need the emotional learning as well, so once again thank you for opening my eyes wider.