Author Topic: Disruptive Promotion  (Read 4748 times)

Easy Does It FI

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Disruptive Promotion
« on: March 03, 2016, 06:00:51 PM »
Hey, everyone, I need some advice following some recent events at work.
The question is, "How best to proceed?"

Details:
-Got a promotion at my corporate oil job today, which will involve
--a ton more work & stress
--title change, and bump to mgmt ladder
--no immediately pay increase

-Not a huge fan of my old job, my company, or industry. Certainly don't feel inspired to work unpaid overtime (I'm salaried).

-Was originally hoping to coast by for ~12 more months (maintaining a "weak but not too weak rank" to get
--a little more savings
--insurance, in case we get pregnant

-With my old job I could keep my REI side-gig which ease an ERE transition with
--insurance
--jobs in Colorado (where we want to retire)

-Have a 5-figure signing bonus I have to pay back if I leave before late May
--Have the money earmarked in an Efund if need be

-Resume has 3 jobs at good companies (considerations for getting back into industry is I ERE/resign)
--Never stayed longer than 2.5 yrs at any one co
--Total exp nearly 7 years
--Did get a "senior" promotion at one point

-ERE now would be 3.1-3.4 SWR

-Ideal job in industry (best aligned with personal values) would probably be as an hourly technician

Thoughts are to try to make it until May, ERE, use the new job to bolster resume (if I ever need it)

Thank you!

MsPeacock

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 06:37:59 PM »
May of 2016? That isn't far off and if so I'd grit my teeth and hang on.

My, uh, institution, likes to give "promotions" also that involve no raise but tons of more work.

former player

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2016, 02:01:06 AM »
So, May 2016 gets you out of repaying the signing bonus, 12 months gets you a little more in savings and the health insurance?  And you currently have a SWR of 3.1 - 3.4? My thoughts -

1.  Certainly stay until May.
2   Can you turn down the "promotion", eg for family reasons?
3.  Can you "coast" in the new job for any length of time?

As you say you are not a fan of this new role, your previous role, your company or your industry I suspect that your likelihood of going back into the industry after ER is low.  Even if you do go back, if you don't want management, you don't need a management role on your resume - although "I tried management, didn't like it, now want to go back to technician" would work.


arebelspy

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2016, 02:31:07 AM »
I would stay through May.  I'd probably, at that point, ask for a pay increase based on the new responsibilities.  Based on their response to that, perhaps stay the extra year you were planning, or resign.

Resigning, if they say no, might cause them to change their tune as well.
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ooeei

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2016, 05:56:48 AM »
I would stay through May.  I'd probably, at that point, ask for a pay increase based on the new responsibilities.  Based on their response to that, perhaps stay the extra year you were planning, or resign.

Resigning, if they say no, might cause them to change their tune as well.

Agreed.  Had a boss at my last job who told me about his experience like that.  They asked him to switch from night time manager to be interim full product line manager.  It wouldn't come with an official new title or raise, but would be "good experience" for him.  He declined, and said he wanted to make what the position dictated and have the title.  They came back 3 months later and said they could give him the title, but couldn't do a raise.  He declined again.  They came back 2 months later and said they could give him a 5% raise and the title.  He declined again.  2 months later he had the title and full salary.  That company makes it a habit to "promote" people "temporarily" until they can fill in the position to give them experience, then keep them there for 5 years being significantly underpaid.

That being said, in the oil industry right now there's a decent chance they'll stick to their "no raise" policy and you'll just have to leave.  If you're already at <4% SWR then I don't know why you'd stay another year anyway.

Easy Does It FI

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2016, 06:32:52 AM »
Thanks, everyone. I'm definitely leaning toward the resign in 3 months. I just need to compromise out the details (esp. health insurance and potential kiddos) with the wife. (My health insurance is great. Hers is ok. Both are better than the exchange.)

A little further detail. Something similar from my past:
I quit my last company after they moved me to a broadening technical role (different engineering discipline), then laid off the other 5 engineers in my group. They all had 20+ yrs exp in the role, so I lost my mentors. I was left super-exposed, running the entire Gulf of Mexico.

I pushed through it for over year. The hours and stress had me going in-and-out of breakdown (mostly in). I eventually starting lashing out, at one point having the police called at my now-wife-then-gf's apt.

Horror story from the new job: the middle managers at my new place push themselves super hard. One lady regularly gets sick. Last fall, her 2 young kids and her all got a bacterial infection and she was the only 1 of the 3 to get pneumonia. She gives herself pneumonia about once per year.

DebtFreeBy25

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2016, 09:41:48 AM »
Horror story from the new job: the middle managers at my new place push themselves super hard. One lady regularly gets sick. Last fall, her 2 young kids and her all got a bacterial infection and she was the only 1 of the 3 to get pneumonia. She gives herself pneumonia about once per year.

Sorry to hear about your "promotion". (I loathe employers who give promotions without raises.) I've worked for a company whose culture was like this, and it sucks. The people who live to work look down on anyone who doesn't.

Alternative suggestion: How concerned is your current employer about HR and legal issues? Do they do everything strictly by the book? If so, you may have a disability angle to play here. "But I'm not disabled. How would that help me?", you wonder. Well, OP, major depression and generalized anxiety disorder are both considered disabilities. If you currently have or could get a diagnosis, your employer would be compelled to make "reasonable accommodations" presuming they're the kind of employer who takes these things seriously. Requesting to remain in your current role and forgo the promotion would certainly be a reasonable accommodation. Also, if you were forced to resign due to health reasons, you would be eligible for unemployment.

Mr. Green

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 11:18:08 AM »
Are you not allowed to turn down the promotion?

slappy

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2016, 11:43:28 AM »
Horror story from the new job: the middle managers at my new place push themselves super hard. One lady regularly gets sick. Last fall, her 2 young kids and her all got a bacterial infection and she was the only 1 of the 3 to get pneumonia. She gives herself pneumonia about once per year.

Sorry to hear about your "promotion". (I loathe employers who give promotions without raises.) I've worked for a company whose culture was like this, and it sucks. The people who live to work look down on anyone who doesn't.

Alternative suggestion: How concerned is your current employer about HR and legal issues? Do they do everything strictly by the book? If so, you may have a disability angle to play here. "But I'm not disabled. How would that help me?", you wonder. Well, OP, major depression and generalized anxiety disorder are both considered disabilities. If you currently have or could get a diagnosis, your employer would be compelled to make "reasonable accommodations" presuming they're the kind of employer who takes these things seriously. Requesting to remain in your current role and forgo the promotion would certainly be a reasonable accommodation. Also, if you were forced to resign due to health reasons, you would be eligible for unemployment.

Well this is interesting information. I wish I had known that when my husband was forced to resign due to severe depression after losing his father last year.  (He was a cop and responded to the call to find his dad dead on the kitchen floor. You would think the department would have had more empathy, but they did not.)

arebelspy

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 12:27:58 PM »
Wow, I'm sorry to hear that slappy.  That sounds incredibly tough.  :(
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
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DebtFreeBy25

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2016, 01:51:09 PM »
Well this is interesting information. I wish I had known that when my husband was forced to resign due to severe depression after losing his father last year.  (He was a cop and responded to the call to find his dad dead on the kitchen floor. You would think the department would have had more empathy, but they did not.)

Very sorry to hear that, slappy. Yes, if your husband's depression was documented, he could have filed for unemployment even though he resigned. (I know unemployment regulations vary somewhat on a state-by-state basis, but I believe most include a resignation exception for health reasons.) If his former employer fought his claim, he would have had the burden of proof to show the state that his resignation was necessitated by his severe depression, which is where the documentation by a medical provider would come in.

slappy

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2016, 01:57:11 PM »
Thank you. It was definitely documented. I guess I'll settle for the fact that we didn't have to pay back his police academy training costs of $15k because the department documented that he left for medical reasons.  I believe with unemployment you would have to be actively job searching anyway, and he really wasn't in a mental position to do so. He's been a stay at home dad since then, and the budget is tight, but other than that it's working out great. FI has definitely put on hold, but I still visit the boards for inspiration.  It seems like this unemployment idea could work for the OP though.

Easy Does It FI

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2016, 05:39:04 AM »
Could I say "no" to the promotion?
I could. But that would get me black-listed pretty quick. I received a fairly weak rank last weak for my 2015 performance. During my review, the boss kept discussing unfulfilled potential (not surprising considering how much I dislike the job). I think they think they're helping me with this promotion, and also testing me/my commitment.

The mental health aspects will sadly be likely. My concern: can they push back by offering counseling and less stressful positions? Would I need a company doctor for this diagnosis to be valid (or get it from my personal doctor)?

Sorry to hear, Slappy :(
Please continue to share your story. The US isn't as bad as some other countries, but mental health here is still completely suppressed.

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Re: Disruptive Promotion
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2016, 09:20:32 AM »
The mental health aspects will sadly be likely. My concern: can they push back by offering counseling and less stressful positions? Would I need a company doctor for this diagnosis to be valid (or get it from my personal doctor)?

Yes, the idea is that your employer is supposed to make reasonable accommodations for your medical condition. A less stressful position and counseling would be reasonable accommodations, but I believe they're supposed to try to keep you in your current position or move you to a similarly compensated position before offering a demotion. I'm pretty sure you're not obligated to accept another position with the company if it would be a demotion which is where unemployment comes in.

No, you don't have to go to your company doctor for the diagnosis. Any qualified practitioner's diagnosis will work. Personally, I would be transparent with the psychiatrist that work has completely stressed you out and left you feeling hopeless and the only way to get your employer to take your condition seriously is by getting a professional diagnosis. I would take that diagnosis directly to HR and tell them that you're looking for accommodation for your disability. You're going to want this documented in writing. I would not take it to your direct supervisor first because s/he may attempt to force you out and claim it was related to your performance.