Dealing with a know-it-all coworker

[former player]

90% right and saving you time in getting needed tasks done is quite different from "idiot who doesn't know anything." What have your interactions been like so far? Is it all instances where you try to correct her? If so, I would sit down with her and thank her for all her help, make it clear that you value the areas she has knowledge in, and find a way to beef up the 10% of inaccuracies. At the same time, work on projecting confidence and developing stronger relationships with your coworkers.

TLDR, +1 to this.

Are you sure you're not annoyed because she is a confident female who is getting shit done?

I'd usually be with you on asking that question, but in this case I think the problem is that Safety Sandy is getting shitty done.

[DadJokes]

90% right and saving you time in getting needed tasks done is quite different from "idiot who doesn't know anything." What have your interactions been like so far? Is it all instances where you try to correct her? If so, I would sit down with her and thank her for all her help, make it clear that you value the areas she has knowledge in, and find a way to beef up the 10% of inaccuracies. At the same time, work on projecting confidence and developing stronger relationships with your coworkers.

TLDR, +1 to this.

Are you sure you're not annoyed because she is a confident female who is getting shit done?

I'm guessing you haven't read the rest of the thread. This person is batshit crazy, at least from the side of the story we've received.

[KBecks]

The thing is, it appears that Frugal Nacho works in a very male-centered workplace, and having an assertive female co-worker might be part of the problem.  I understand that she lacks knowledge.  It seems, however, that he is concerned with acronyms, spelling, and garbage bags.  Rather than helping her learn, he wants her fired. 

I get that she is confident, but has she been mean or hostile? 

I think that sexism might be part of the puzzle.

Instead of collecting stories to share online, how is FN going to make his workplace work better?  Is the only option to get her fired?  If that happens, it's going to happen because of her, not him.  If she doesn't get fired, how can he make things work better, forge a decent relationship and survive?  He is new at this place too.

[frugalnacho]

90% right and saving you time in getting needed tasks done is quite different from "idiot who doesn't know anything." What have your interactions been like so far? Is it all instances where you try to correct her? If so, I would sit down with her and thank her for all her help, make it clear that you value the areas she has knowledge in, and find a way to beef up the 10% of inaccuracies. At the same time, work on projecting confidence and developing stronger relationships with your coworkers.

TLDR, +1 to this.

Are you sure you're not annoyed because she is a confident female who is getting shit done?

...did you read the thread? This has nothing to do with sexism. 

[KBecks]

I don't understand how a data entry worker is giving instructions to the lab. Is this not your role?  Where are you during these events?

Note that if you fail your OSHA or whatever, they are not going to hold a data entry worker responsible for the failure.

Yes, I read the thread.  I think it bothers you that people are listening to this woman instead of you.  Why aren't they listening to you?  What are you doing so that you are listened to?

[frugalnacho]

I don't understand how a data entry worker is giving instructions to the lab. Is this not your role?  Where are you during these events?

Note that if you fail your OSHA or whatever, they are not going to hold a data entry worker responsible for the failure.

Yes, I read the thread.  I think it bothers you that people are listening to this woman instead of you.  Why aren't they listening to you?  What are you doing so that you are listened to?

I don't understand it either.  People just listen to her.  I can't and won't walk around looking over her shoulder micromanaging who she talks to.  I have my own job to do and I can't control her behavior.

Yes I realize that if we get an OSHA or environmental regulatory inspection it's going to fall on me.  That's why it's so god damn frustrating that people are listening to her at all. 

Yes it bothers me a great deal people are listening to her.  It's not her job or responsibility, but she's doing it anyway.  It's creating headaches and additional work for me.  She's drumming up fears based on her ignorance, and getting lots of people worried about things that are non-issues.  I am taking time away from addressing legitimate hazards to deal with something she thinks is a hazard but is not.  She doesn't get vaccines because she believes there are nanobots in the vaccines.  THAT's the kind of idiot I am dealing with. 

Why aren't they listening to me? I don't know, they are fucking stupid.  Why do people listen to Jenny McCarthy instead of their fucking doctor?  It's obvious vaccines don't cause autism, and it's obvious they work as intended and nearly everyone should be getting vaccines.  But still, people are listening to Jenny and repeating that vaccines cause autism (case in point my know-nothing know-it-all coworker). 

Do you have any actionable constructive advice on how to deal with that type of person? If presenting evidence and facts (my usual MO) worked then I wouldn't have created this thread. 

It's hard to articulate exactly what is so hard about dealing with her, but if you've ever dealt with an anti-vaxxer you probably already know.  You think you know how vaccines work, and have read the studies, and have read all the expert opinions.  Case closed, everyone should get vaccines, how could anyone possibly dispute that?  If anyone has a different opinion, then you think it would be so easy to refute them and make them look like an idiot.  Then you get into an argument with one, and they start whipping bullshit facts around, and you can't even keep up with the shit spouting from them and you get frazzled.  You end up looking like an idiot even though you are 100% right.  To all the reasonable people, they understood your points, but then again you never needed to convince them because they can see the situation for what it is.  To all the unreasonable people, it looks like the anti-vaxxer just won an argument against you.  The anti-vaxxer becomes emboldened, and the unreasonable people that aren't smart enough to know they should get vaccines in the first place become even more convinced that the anti-vaxxer is right.
 
I've gotten into numerous arguments with anti-vax people both online and in real life through the years.  Never have I won that argument.  Never have I convinced anyone to abandon their nonsense anti-vax beliefs.  It's a frustrating and pointless exercise in futility. The type of person that can be reasoned with using facts and scientific studies already holds a pro-vaccine position, so you are by definition entering into an unwinnable argument. 

To be clear we are not having anti-vax arguments at work, her mentioning she was anti-vax was done to a vendor and is more of a side note.   I had to mention it in the thread because of how much it blew my mind, and how well it fits with her personality.  I feel like all interactions I have with her are like I'm arguing in an anti-vax discussion.   

[nburns]

@frugalnacho I've come across so many people in my life like this coworker you speak of. Each time I am unfortunate enough to meet one of these people I go through in my head if it's really worth it for me to get involved and do something about it.  There seems to be an endless supply of dopes out there. I think in your case since you're this deep in already I would document all these workplace errors by this coworker to build up enough of a case to show management all of this person's wrong doings and the jeopardy they put other people's safety in. To be saying and doing the things this person is doing in the workplace is ridiculous and they should be reprimanded especially with a long list of issues during this short length of employment with the current company.

[debbie does duncan]

There are 2 reasons people listen to her.
 One they are looking for entertainment  ( small talk) and  two they like having their own ideas confirmed.
Think of Fox news, no one watches it for news....it is entertainment and confirmation that they are right
 ( no matter how dumb they are) .
 Does she have so little work to do that she can schmooze so much?

[Tester]

The thing is, it appears that Frugal Nacho works in a very male-centered workplace, and having an assertive female co-worker might be part of the problem.  I understand that she lacks knowledge.  It seems, however, that he is concerned with acronyms, spelling, and garbage bags.  Rather than helping her learn, he wants her fired. 

I get that she is confident, but has she been mean or hostile? 

I think that sexism might be part of the puzzle.

Instead of collecting stories to share online, how is FN going to make his workplace work better?  Is the only option to get her fired?  If that happens, it's going to happen because of her, not him.  If she doesn't get fired, how can he make things work better, forge a decent relationship and survive?  He is new at this place too.

You know, the sexism statement on this is exactly that, sexism.
All o a sudden if you criticize a woman you are sexist.
You have to fold over to any stupid woman because if you don't you are sexist. It goes several other ways too.
God forbid you are a white male questioning a black person or even worse gay/lesbian.

[Roadrunner53]

I have worked with know it all coworkers and every type of idiot known to man. One of the worst people I worked with was this terribly mean spirited person. She would look at you like she had laser beam eyes and could burn holes thru you. There were times I had to interact with her by using equipment she had to also use. Even if she wasn't using it she would make a big deal and question you with a hundred questions on why, how long, come to me when you are done and let me know you are finished. She was a bitch on wheels. I witnessed her tongue lash my boss who was probably quite a few notches above her. He was the nicest, smartest person. Kind, generous, brilliant and would never step on anyone's toes. In front of a crowded room she challenged him and was downright nasty to him. She had a few guy friends she would schmooze and for some reason they liked her. The rest of the people she encountered, she treated like slime on the bottom of her shoes. When she talked to you her face would screw up like a prune and she looked as if she would explode. Talk about an anger problem!

One day she pissed off the head guy of the company. He assigned her a duty and she decided it wasn't her job to do it. Someone else did it and informed the head guy. He was furious, questioned the person why they did it and called in the wicked witch and FIRED HER on the spot. OH, the glory of it all! That was one of the happiest work days of my life! It was similar to the end of The Wizard of Oz when Dorothy accidently killed the wicked witch!

That is one beauty of being retired/fired. Not to have to deal with the dysfunctionals.

[SunnyDays]

People listen to people like her because she plays on their fears.  You can't fight emotions with logic, no matter how hard you try.

[SKL-HOU]

I don't understand how a data entry worker is giving instructions to the lab. Is this not your role?  Where are you during these events?

Note that if you fail your OSHA or whatever, they are not going to hold a data entry worker responsible for the failure.

Yes, I read the thread.  I think it bothers you that people are listening to this woman instead of you.  Why aren't they listening to you?  What are you doing so that you are listened to?

I don't understand it either.  People just listen to her.  I can't and won't walk around looking over her shoulder micromanaging who she talks to.  I have my own job to do and I can't control her behavior.

Yes I realize that if we get an OSHA or environmental regulatory inspection it's going to fall on me.  That's why it's so god damn frustrating that people are listening to her at all. 

You say you can’t/won’t walk around and micromanage her but the only reason is because she is well-liked and you are not. Otherwise you DO talk about her and even try to get her fired if/when anyone listens to you (your boss for example). If an inspection is going to fall on you, why aren’t you getting ahead of this and doing your job? If you were doing your job, she wouldn’t be attempting to do it for you because there wouldn’t be anything to do. You are so threatened by her that just having her butt out of these things aren’t enough, you actually want her fired. Again probably because she is confident and well-liked and you are neither of those things. She may make the stupidest comments but at the end of the day she is still several steps ahead of you. Either do your job BEFORE she gets to it or stop monitoring her every minute of the day. Pretty soon she will complain about you always “overhearing” (listening to) her conversations and trying to go behind her back instead of being a professional. How is it that you happen to overhear her so often?

[frugalnacho]

I don't understand how a data entry worker is giving instructions to the lab. Is this not your role?  Where are you during these events?

Note that if you fail your OSHA or whatever, they are not going to hold a data entry worker responsible for the failure.

Yes, I read the thread.  I think it bothers you that people are listening to this woman instead of you.  Why aren't they listening to you?  What are you doing so that you are listened to?

I don't understand it either.  People just listen to her.  I can't and won't walk around looking over her shoulder micromanaging who she talks to.  I have my own job to do and I can't control her behavior.

Yes I realize that if we get an OSHA or environmental regulatory inspection it's going to fall on me.  That's why it's so god damn frustrating that people are listening to her at all. 

You say you can’t/won’t walk around and micromanage her but the only reason is because she is well-liked and you are not. Otherwise you DO talk about her and even try to get her fired if/when anyone listens to you (your boss for example). If an inspection is going to fall on you, why aren’t you getting ahead of this and doing your job? If you were doing your job, she wouldn’t be attempting to do it for you because there wouldn’t be anything to do. You are so threatened by her that just having her butt out of these things aren’t enough, you actually want her fired. Again probably because she is confident and well-liked and you are neither of those things. She may make the stupidest comments but at the end of the day she is still several steps ahead of you. Either do your job BEFORE she gets to it or stop monitoring her every minute of the day. Pretty soon she will complain about you always “overhearing” (listening to) her conversations and trying to go behind her back instead of being a professional. How is it that you happen to overhear her so often?

Are you mental too? Maybe a bad batch of nanobots in your last vaccine? I won't go around micromanaging her because THAT'S NOT MY FUCKING JOB, not because she is confident and well-liked.  She is not several steps of ahead of anyone, I'm amazed she is able to even tie her own shoes. Seriously, did you even read the thread? 

I want her fired because she is grossly incompetent and a pain in my ass. I "overhear" her conversations because we work in the same fucking lab; her desk is like 20 feet away from mine. The anti-vax and nanobots conversation happened directly in front of my door.  I couldn't have avoided it even if I wanted to.

[SKL-HOU]

I don't understand how a data entry worker is giving instructions to the lab. Is this not your role?  Where are you during these events?

Note that if you fail your OSHA or whatever, they are not going to hold a data entry worker responsible for the failure.

Yes, I read the thread.  I think it bothers you that people are listening to this woman instead of you.  Why aren't they listening to you?  What are you doing so that you are listened to?

I don't understand it either.  People just listen to her.  I can't and won't walk around looking over her shoulder micromanaging who she talks to.  I have my own job to do and I can't control her behavior.

Yes I realize that if we get an OSHA or environmental regulatory inspection it's going to fall on me.  That's why it's so god damn frustrating that people are listening to her at all. 

You say you can’t/won’t walk around and micromanage her but the only reason is because she is well-liked and you are not. Otherwise you DO talk about her and even try to get her fired if/when anyone listens to you (your boss for example). If an inspection is going to fall on you, why aren’t you getting ahead of this and doing your job? If you were doing your job, she wouldn’t be attempting to do it for you because there wouldn’t be anything to do. You are so threatened by her that just having her butt out of these things aren’t enough, you actually want her fired. Again probably because she is confident and well-liked and you are neither of those things. She may make the stupidest comments but at the end of the day she is still several steps ahead of you. Either do your job BEFORE she gets to it or stop monitoring her every minute of the day. Pretty soon she will complain about you always “overhearing” (listening to) her conversations and trying to go behind her back instead of being a professional. How is it that you happen to overhear her so often?

Are you mental too? Maybe a bad batch of nanobots in your last vaccine? I won't go around micromanaging her because THAT'S NOT MY FUCKING JOB, not because she is confident and well-liked.  She is not several steps of ahead of anyone, I'm amazed she is able to even tie her own shoes. Seriously, did you even read the thread? 

I want her fired because she is grossly incompetent and a pain in my ass. I "overhear" her conversations because we work in the same fucking lab; her desk is like 20 feet away from mine. The anti-vax and nanobots conversation happened directly in front of my door.  I couldn't have avoided it even if I wanted to.

Yes i read the whole thread and have been commenting. What i am saying is you say it is not your job to micromanage her but yet you keep attempting by going to your manager to get her fired. You don’t attempt to correct her incorrect information because you know nobody will listen to you because you are not confident or well-liked. It is already established that she is an idiot but she is a well-liked idiot and if she was causing as much harm as you claim, she would’ve been fired. Nanobots and the other crap she talks about is not a reason to fire someone. Idiotic comments about vaccines are not reasons to fire. My point is she is TRYING to do something even if they are incorrect. All you are doing is bitch about her to strangers on the internet and your boss because noone else will listen. Majority of your complaints is about her being an idiot. She is several steps ahead, not because she accomplishes anything but because she attempts and has the confidence to do so. She finds the opening and she takes it because you are not taking the opening.

[former player]

if she was causing as much harm as you claim, she would’ve been fired.

You must not have known many of the managers that I have.

[SKL-HOU]

if she was causing as much harm as you claim, she would’ve been fired.

You must not have known many of the managers that I have.

He already ran to his manager and complained and he agreed to his face but nothing including telling her not to do these things happened. So maybe in this company not knowing about major world events like chernobyl and being an antivaxxer and annoying frugalnacho are not fireable offenses.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

if she was causing as much harm as you claim, she would’ve been fired.

You must not have known many of the managers that I have.

THIS. She's probably reached the stupid threshold required to be promoted, actually.

[former player]

if she was causing as much harm as you claim, she would’ve been fired.

You must not have known many of the managers that I have.

He already ran to his manager and complained and he agreed to his face but nothing including telling her not to do these things happened. So maybe in this company not knowing about major world events like chernobyl and being an antivaxxer and annoying frugalnacho are not fireable offenses.

Or the manager just isn't up to the job of 1) ensuring that this newly employed data entry clerk does her job without getting in the way of other people doing their (safety critical) job, and 2) following whatever performance management and exit procedures the company may have.

[KBecks]

I think it's safe to assume that the company wants the data entry clerk to do the data entry job well, and the safety / environmental engineer to do that job well too.  If the data entry clerk wants to go above and beyond, that can be viewed as being a "go-getter" -- why not let that person step up and try?

I don't think that the data entry clerk will be fired.

Now, what's next?

P.S. Do we think that antibodies and nanobots are mix-uppable?   If she doesn't have perfect language and perfect spelling, it might be "good enough" for the people at the workplace, except FrugalNacho.

P.P.S.  You say you have been there 3 months (update: looks like around 5 months now since the thread was started a while ago).  I don't think it's appropriate for someone who has been at a place 3 months to try to get other people fired.  You are still proving yourself!

Last note: If you try to show her up in front of other people (during a training), of course she's going to defend herself.  If you try to give her solid information in a kind and non-threatening way, maybe she'd listen to you.

[RWD]

If the data entry clerk wants to go above and beyond, that can be viewed as being a "go-getter" -- why not let that person step up and try?

If the janitor wants to go above and beyond and try their hand at air traffic control why not let that person step up and try?

Personally I would want someone making decisions that affect safety to have some proper training first.

[KBecks]

Dude, she's OSHA certified.  LOL.

[Beach_Bound]

Nacho was hired as the safety expert for the plant. He created a prioritized list of safety tasks to address. That list does not include editing poorly written safety posters or negotiating with trash collectors because regular trash was improperly put in biohazard bags. Safety Sandy isn't being a helpful go-getter; she's creating unnecessary work. She's actively detracting from plant safety by preventing the safety expert from working on higher priority issues.

[KBecks]

So I think Nacho needs advice on how to regain control of the situation.  This does not necessarily mean getting the other person fired.

[alienbogey]

 Can you even imagine the audacity and arrogance that someone must have to completely dismiss a medical doctors diagnosis and rediagnose someone that you know nothing about with a non-existent disease based on your internet research?

I don't have to imagine it, my daughter in law lives it.

[herbgeek]

I don't understand it either.  People just listen to her.

Why aren't they listening to me? I don't know, they are fucking stupid. 

would be so easy to refute them and make them look like an idiot.

ou end up looking like an idiot even though you are 100% right.

Dirision just drips from all of your posts.  Of course, people don't listen to you.  You have made it obvious that everyone but you is stupid.  Safety Sandy actually talks TO people instead of AT them, and they respond to that.  Even though she is wrong.   People have to trust you before they will listen to you.   

You, on the other hand, think everyone is stupid, and you want to publicly correct folks.  And not just teach them something, you want to prove them /wrong/.   People don't want to be publicly humiliated. 

Safety Sandy is being paid as a data entry clerk, but is doing more work than that (even if not always 100% accurate).  The company is still getting value above what they are paying for.  As someone else already pointed out, if you had already done the things that need to be done, there would be nothing for her to do.  If you were smart, you'd have her do well defined, routine and clerical tasks, so that you could focus on higher level items that only you can do.   Which would leverage both of you better.  You can't complain about her help, while also complaining that you have more work than you can handle.  Her annoying you is not a fireable offense.

I say this, having been a manager for a good dozen years, and having had to manage staff like you.  Its possible to be 100% technically correct, and still ineffective in your job because you can't get along with other people, or find a way to work with them that benefits all.  Firing someone is never a first course of action.

[BlueHouse]

@frugalnacho, you've been on these boards for a long time and I hold a lot of respect for you and your opinions.  Anybody who has ever encountered someone like this knows what you're talking about.  You are not crazy. 

So let me tell you a little bit about me.  First, I'm pretty sure I have that "authority" thing that people respond to.  It's strange because I could tell people the sky is green and they will believe me.  This usually lasts about 2 years.  After that, I just try to be good at my job.  I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I can tell you when it started:  at my 2nd job after college, I noticed that no one listened to me when I spoke and I was constantly being interrupted.  I went to the library and got a book and a workbook about "how to speak with authority" (I think it was specifically for women because i was in a male-dominated field) and practiced.  I also started noticing in company meetings that some people could slip in unnoticed and when other people walked in, the entire room stopped talking.  I wanted that to be me, so I started emulating some of the mannerisms. I changed my shoes to always have a hard sole so they "clicked" when I walked (always quickly).  I make sure my posture is good and I stand tall and take up more room than I need to.  When I walk into a meeting now, I push the door open hard and fast and I expect others to make way for me.  When someone offers a seat or to hold a door for me I take it without flinching (and I say thank you).  It's been decades, and I'm still described by others as "confident, authoritative, intelligent" and sometimes "intimidating".  I know this made a difference in how I'm perceived at work.  Maybe check Safety Sandy's posture and see if she comes across as more confident than you do? 

Second, my brother has this thing that makes everyone like him.  Not sure how to describe it, but I do not have it.  One of the things he does is that he never engages in an argument.  If someone else starts to argue or even just challenge him, he will mimic or mock them in some funny voice.  Or say something like "Oh, okay captain obvious"  It's not bullying because he's really just diffusing a tense situation, but trust me, it's infuriating to be on the receiving end of it.  When he does it to me, I feel like screaming "I'm not crazy!" like a crazy person would.  When I'm angry about something, he makes a joke out of it, which sends me deeper into a rant.  He always comes out smelling like roses.  Your description of safety sandy being so likable reminded me of this.   Maybe she's likable because she laughs more and you are coming off angry or sulking? 

[frugalnacho]

Yes i read the whole thread and have been commenting. What i am saying is you say it is not your job to micromanage her but yet you keep attempting by going to your manager to get her fired. You don’t attempt to correct her incorrect information because you know nobody will listen to you because you are not confident or well-liked. It is already established that she is an idiot but she is a well-liked idiot and if she was causing as much harm as you claim, she would’ve been fired. Nanobots and the other crap she talks about is not a reason to fire someone. Idiotic comments about vaccines are not reasons to fire. My point is she is TRYING to do something even if they are incorrect. All you are doing is bitch about her to strangers on the internet and your boss because noone else will listen. Majority of your complaints is about her being an idiot. She is several steps ahead, not because she accomplishes anything but because she attempts and has the confidence to do so. She finds the opening and she takes it because you are not taking the opening.

What are you even talking about?  The meeting where I expressed my opinion that she should be fired was a follow up to a meeting she initiated.  She made and laminated a bunch of safety signs and emailed them directly to the plant manager with the intention of posting them.  We were both blindsided by this request, and afterwards when I had the time to actually look at the posters she made I realized it was riddled with spelling errors and inaccuracies and that is when I scheduled another meeting with my boss to let him know.  I am not going out of my way to get her fired, I merely expressed my opinion based on the numerous detrimental actions she's already taken. 

Merely trying to do something is not a sufficient reason to keep her employed.  She is overstepping boundaries and doing stuff she shouldn't be doing because she's not trained, not educated, and frankly too stupid to be taking on those responsibilities.  Rather than being praised for being proactive I think she should be punished for overstepping and wasting company resources.  What if I just started poking around in the financial software and making tweaks even though I'm not trained in the software and have no background in finance?  Should I be praised for taking some initiative? Or should I get a reality check and get put in my place?

I think you are misconstruing my confidence level too.  It's not that I lack confidence, it's that I lack confidence in areas I shouldn't be confident in.  I don't work in the paint booth, and I am unfamiliar with a lot of the chemicals they use.  When asked how to categorize and dispose of 30 different items...I don't know! I don't know that off the top of my head, I would have to check the hazardous waste regulations, check the chemical components, and make a determination of how to dispose of each item properly.  Then document that, and make it an official company policy for how we do it going forward, which apparently no one has ever done.  But WTF, how have you been disposing of everything for the last 20 years if you guys don't know?! In contrast safety sandy has the utmost confidence to start delegating that everything gets put into a bio waste bag, even though she's completely wrong!

I'm sure you all have known people like that.  Maybe from school, maybe from previous jobs, or maybe you are working with that person right now.  They read something and they are instantly a subject matter expert, and even though you are not a subject matter expert, you understood the material enough to know that that person is a complete idiot and didn't fully comprehend what they read, but they believe they fully comprehended it.  That's safety sandy.  Every. Single. Subject.  She's a fucking expert.  I actually am a subject matter expert on many of the things she is claiming to have expertise in, and most of the other areas I can tell she doesn't know what she's talking about and doesn't understand it nearly as well as she thinks she does.  The ability to evaluate how well you understand something is the same set of skills required to actually understand the material.  She is lacking in the ability to understand the material, and she can't even understand how much her understanding is lacking.

[frugalnacho]

I think it's safe to assume that the company wants the data entry clerk to do the data entry job well, and the safety / environmental engineer to do that job well too.  If the data entry clerk wants to go above and beyond, that can be viewed as being a "go-getter" -- why not let that person step up and try?

I don't think that the data entry clerk will be fired.

Now, what's next?

P.S. Do we think that antibodies and nanobots are mix-uppable?   If she doesn't have perfect language and perfect spelling, it might be "good enough" for the people at the workplace, except FrugalNacho.

P.P.S.  You say you have been there 3 months (update: looks like around 5 months now since the thread was started a while ago).  I don't think it's appropriate for someone who has been at a place 3 months to try to get other people fired.  You are still proving yourself!

Last note: If you try to show her up in front of other people (during a training), of course she's going to defend herself.  If you try to give her solid information in a kind and non-threatening way, maybe she'd listen to you.

No I doubt she is mixing up antibodies and nanobots.  She clearly said nanobots, and the vendor looked perplexed and repeated back "nanobots?", to which she responded "yea, nanobots".  Also that's not "good enough" for anyone, that's straight up crazy territory, or at least terribly ignorant and confused about how they work.  This was literally the same conversation that she said she worked in a doctors office and read the doctors notes and recommended treatments for the patients.  I can't tell if you are trolling or what.

When did I try to show her up during training?  Some employees seemed confused about MSDS and SDS and I attempted to offer clarification.  Me noting that was because she was so defensive and argumentative, for IMO no reason since I wasn't challenging her or showing her up, just stating a fact in an attempt to alleviate confusion.  I think the real take away from that interaction is that 1. she's not fucking qualified to be conducting training of any kind, and 2. she immediately countered me with a made up fact that some materials are considered "materials" thus must legally have an MSDS and not an SDS.   

[nburns]

I wish there was a like button so I could like every dumb thing this woman has done since this thread began.  She needs to be sat down by management and figure out what the fuck she is actually doing at this plant other than fucking with @frugalnacho 's job. It has gotten past the point of understanding another person, this is a job and you are royally fucking it up. FN, I feel for you.  You are not crazy, this lady is bat shit from the sounds of it. The spelling errors and the MSDS vs SDS things I could maybe see, but the "skeletosis", soot from the furnace, and nanobots? holy shit this is gold, prime content here.

[PoutineLover]

Nanobots are real guys: https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=109379
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Re: Safety Sandy, it seems like you have a personality conflict with her, that is making every little mistake get blown out of proportion. Yes, she is doing stupid things, and I'm sure it is frustrating, but I think that if you are both new, you shouldn't be trying to get her fired, it reflects badly on you. If anything, she probably just isn't busy enough with her own actual tasks, and she needs to be told which things are not part of her job description. Your energy might be better spent on clearly defining your job and making sure that she doesn't have any part in it.

[frugalnacho]

I don't understand it either.  People just listen to her.

Why aren't they listening to me? I don't know, they are fucking stupid. 

would be so easy to refute them and make them look like an idiot.

ou end up looking like an idiot even though you are 100% right.

Dirision just drips from all of your posts.  Of course, people don't listen to you.  You have made it obvious that everyone but you is stupid.  Safety Sandy actually talks TO people instead of AT them, and they respond to that.  Even though she is wrong.   People have to trust you before they will listen to you.   

You, on the other hand, think everyone is stupid, and you want to publicly correct folks.  And not just teach them something, you want to prove them /wrong/.   People don't want to be publicly humiliated. 

Safety Sandy is being paid as a data entry clerk, but is doing more work than that (even if not always 100% accurate).  The company is still getting value above what they are paying for.  As someone else already pointed out, if you had already done the things that need to be done, there would be nothing for her to do.  If you were smart, you'd have her do well defined, routine and clerical tasks, so that you could focus on higher level items that only you can do.   Which would leverage both of you better.  You can't complain about her help, while also complaining that you have more work than you can handle.  Her annoying you is not a fireable offense.

I say this, having been a manager for a good dozen years, and having had to manage staff like you.  Its possible to be 100% technically correct, and still ineffective in your job because you can't get along with other people, or find a way to work with them that benefits all.  Firing someone is never a first course of action.

What's with the comments about me publically correcting people and trying to prove them wrong?  Is this all stemming from the one incident about SDS/MSDS? I don't really count that as a public correction, as my intent was not to even correct her, just provide some clarification, but it totally backfired.  I didn't think anyone could/would dispute what I said.

Of course derision drips from my posts, she's objectively an idiot that is very worthy of derision.  Anyone that doesn't vaccinate and believes vaccines cause autism should be derided because they are dangerous idiots causing harm to society.  Fuck those fucking idiots.  Puta pendejos. Everytime I hear of some baby that was too young to get vaccinated dieing from the measles my blood boils and I want to stab an anti vaxxer in the neck. If anyone reading this thread is an anti-vaxxer they can go fuck themselves.

[frugalnacho]

I wish there was a like button so I could like every dumb thing this woman has done since this thread began.  She needs to be sat down by management and figure out what the fuck she is actually doing at this plant other than fucking with @frugalnacho 's job. It has gotten past the point of understanding another person, this is a job and you are royally fucking it up. FN, I feel for you.  You are not crazy, this lady is bat shit from the sounds of it. The spelling errors and the MSDS vs SDS things I could maybe see, but the "skeletosis", soot from the furnace, and nanobots? holy shit this is gold, prime content here.

I don't remember if I followed up about the furnace and the soot.  I got maintenance to come in and look at the furnace.  First thing he did is look at it and say "this is the exhaust pipe.  It's not even connected to the air circulating duct".  Then he got a vacuum and cleaned up the dust around the furnace, never cleaned anything inside the furnace or adjusted anything.  Mysteriously the ear aches and "sickness" that was plaguing her vanished overnight. 

Somehow this crazy "soot" (aka dust) is still accumulating over everything in my office though.  It also appears to be accumulating in my house and my car, and literally every other place I go. 

[SKL-HOU]

Again being an idiot or not vaccinating or annoying you is not a fireable offense. If you list everything that you mentioned in this thread, there is nothing that warrants firing someone. Unnecessary work sure, idiotic comments sure, but what has she done that actually requires her to be fired other than you wanting it. And just reading all your comments, the only reason i can see (as an outsider reading your side only) you wanting her fired is she is everything you are not (that includes being an idiot but also well-liked and confident). It must be exhausting to be you, always looking for faults. There is a reason she is well-liked and you are not (don’t mean they don’t like you, i mean you seem to be just tolerable at best).
I have definitely worked with people like her, i still do. But other than occasionally being annoyed, i would never try to get them fired for trying or annoying me. Employers like enthusiastic people (even if they are idiots), not know-it-alls who complain about coworkers to get them fired. You are NOT a team player.

[frugalnacho]

Nanobots are real guys: https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=109379
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Re: Safety Sandy, it seems like you have a personality conflict with her, that is making every little mistake get blown out of proportion. Yes, she is doing stupid things, and I'm sure it is frustrating, but I think that if you are both new, you shouldn't be trying to get her fired, it reflects badly on you. If anything, she probably just isn't busy enough with her own actual tasks, and she needs to be told which things are not part of her job description. Your energy might be better spent on clearly defining your job and making sure that she doesn't have any part in it.

Definitely a personality conflict.  Out of the 90 or so people at this facility there is exactly 1 person I dislike.

However, I'm not actively trying to get her fired.  I'm not setting her up for failure, and I'm not going around trying to report her other than for things directly related to my job that she is fucking up.  I don't see how I really have any other choice though, I can't sit back and allow someone else to completely fuck up areas that fall under my responsibility without saying something.  I'm not reporting to my manager her stance on vaccines and nanobots.  I did report about her diagnosing someone with "skeletosis" though.  As the health and safety manager, should I not be reporting that kind of stuff?

I also don't buy into this "oh just let everyone do anything they want, no one deserves to be fired" bullshit.  I'm not advocating to fire her simply because I dislike her.  I'm advocating to fire her because she is grossly incompetent, actively undermining management, and a huge liability to the company.  I think her intentions are good, but she's far too inept.  I believe it's in the best interest of the company to fire her. 


I'm also only reporting a small portion of my job responsibilities in this thread, and only things directly related to safety sandy.  It's a bit unfair to say she is making tons of progress and I'm not doing anything just because I'm not posting about the environmental reports that are getting done, and the waste treatment system improvements being installed, and the new permits being drafted, etc.  This thread is small insight into a narrow range of job responsibilities that are being interfered with by the self proclaimed safety guru, because that's the only portion directly applicable to this thread.  Thankfully most of that stuff is so far out of her scope she isn't even aware of it, although I'm sure she'd be offering her expert opinion on it if she could.

[KBecks]

The thing I don't understand -- how did this person get to lead a safety training without your permission or knowledge?  You said earlier that you appreciate people volunteering, do did you bless it? 

It sounds like things have settled down, so maybe you can just ignore and do your things.

[frugalnacho]

Again being an idiot or not vaccinating or annoying you is not a fireable offense. If you list everything that you mentioned in this thread, there is nothing that warrants firing someone. Unnecessary work sure, idiotic comments sure, but what has she done that actually requires her to be fired other than you wanting it. And just reading all your comments, the only reason i can see (as an outsider reading your side only) you wanting her fired is she is everything you are not (that includes being an idiot but also well-liked and confident). It must be exhausting to be you, always looking for faults. There is a reason she is well-liked and you are not (don’t mean they don’t like you, i mean you seem to be just tolerable at best).
I have definitely worked with people like her, i still do. But other than occasionally being annoyed, i would never try to get them fired for trying or annoying me. Employers like enthusiastic people (even if they are idiots), not know-it-alls who complain about coworkers to get them fired. You are NOT a team player.

Off the top of my head without rereading everything I've posted things that are fireable offenses:

1. not understanding the basic chemistry or physics of what you're dealing with.  Ignorance alone doesn't necessarily justify being fired, but coupled with instructing other people how to conduct their jobs based on your misunderstandings it can.
2. not understanding the mechanisms of how pollutants can get into the air and ultimately into the body, but insisting you do.
3. wasting company resources (employee time, materials)
4. conducting unauthorized training of employees.  This one is especially egregious since she was wrong on so many points.
5. evaluating employees with made up diseases (skeletosis)

There are probably several more I'm not thinking of at the moment, but any one of those could potentially be a fireable offense IMO, and in aggregate they definitely should be.  Everything else (nanobots, vaccines, chernobyl, etc) is just gravy that I'm posting for entertainment value. 

[frugalnacho]

The thing I don't understand -- how did this person get to lead a safety training without your permission or knowledge?  You said earlier that you appreciate people volunteering, do did you bless it? 

It sounds like things have settled down, so maybe you can just ignore and do your things.

She just did it.  I found out about it when she called a group of us in for safety training.  She didn't get approval or fill out any forms or anything, she just did it.  BAM, you're getting training.  Ultimately I went to my manager who shut it down.  But that's how it started. 

It has somewhat settled down, and she is getting into other people's hair at this point.  I am avoiding her as much as possible, which is hard because we work in the same lab.  I don't give her anything to do, I don't inquire about her job, and I don't volunteer anything related to my job. 

[frugalnacho]

Nanobots are real guys: https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=109379

Is that site even real? I read through that thread, and jumped up a level and looked at other threads.  I can't tell if it's full on crazy people or a parody of crazy people. 

[nburns]

Nanobots are real guys: https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=109379

Is that site even real? I read through that thread, and jumped up a level and looked at other threads.  I can't tell if it's full on crazy people or a parody of crazy people.

Same here, I just looked it over for a good 20 minuets and cannot tell if this is real or a troll website.

[Villanelle]

It seems to me that the focus shouldn't be on fixing her or getting her fired.  The focus should be on clearly delineating, *for your coworkers* what authorities you have, vs what she has.  Your focus seems to be on her, because you feel she is usurping your authority.  The solution to that seems to be shoring up your authority or makinf sure everyone else knows who to listen to regarding things in your sphere of responsibility.

I'm not doubting she's crazy.  I'm not doubting she sucks, or that she's doing things she shouldn't.

But it seems like people are inclined to listen to her instead of you.  That's what you need to address.  That's should be your focus.  Why, particularly in areas where it seems like the proper chain of command is clear, are they listening to her instead?  That suggest that there is an authority or respect issue, or that for some reason you aren't liked or trusted.  I'd start by trying to build better relationships with key colleagues, and by seeing if there is some way to better codify (as in, actually get it written down and distributed, if at all possible), what areas you "won".  With that done, and without making it in any way about here, spread that info far and wide.  Frame it as a helpful document, because there has been some confusion in the past, about what falls under your purview, and the ask people, if they receive information or direction on those things from anyone else, to please run it by you first, to avoid confusion, doubled or conflicting efforts, or any other possible complications.  Then thank them for helping you ensure nothing gets missed.

Focusing on removing her is the wrong approach for several reasons.  This is showing you that *you* have a work issue.  That's not a criticism; it's just kind of a thing that happens.  Something needs to shift so that you are the guy they listen to.  If at my job a finance person told me about what I needed to do to get approval to extend the term on a grant, I wouldn't have listened.  But if it wasn't clear to me who did what, I might have inadvertently done so.  And if I knew that person and trusted them, and *I didn't know or trust the more relevant person*, I might either intentionally or unintentionally listed to advice from the wrong person.  Those are the things you can fix. Whether this person continues to be employed is mostly outside of your sphere of control, yet you are making it mostly the focus.  Fix your own authority and relationships, and then when she tries this stuff, she will be ignored and you will be notified. 

[frugalnacho]

It seems to me that the focus shouldn't be on fixing her or getting her fired.  The focus should be on clearly delineating, *for your coworkers* what authorities you have, vs what she has.  Your focus seems to be on her, because you feel she is usurping your authority.  The solution to that seems to be shoring up your authority or makinf sure everyone else knows who to listen to regarding things in your sphere of responsibility.

I'm not doubting she's crazy.  I'm not doubting she sucks, or that she's doing things she shouldn't.

But it seems like people are inclined to listen to her instead of you.  That's what you need to address.  That's should be your focus.  Why, particularly in areas where it seems like the proper chain of command is clear, are they listening to her instead?  That suggest that there is an authority or respect issue, or that for some reason you aren't liked or trusted.  I'd start by trying to build better relationships with key colleagues, and by seeing if there is some way to better codify (as in, actually get it written down and distributed, if at all possible), what areas you "won".  With that done, and without making it in any way about here, spread that info far and wide.  Frame it as a helpful document, because there has been some confusion in the past, about what falls under your purview, and the ask people, if they receive information or direction on those things from anyone else, to please run it by you first, to avoid confusion, doubled or conflicting efforts, or any other possible complications.  Then thank them for helping you ensure nothing gets missed.

Focusing on removing her is the wrong approach for several reasons.  This is showing you that *you* have a work issue.  That's not a criticism; it's just kind of a thing that happens.  Something needs to shift so that you are the guy they listen to.  If at my job a finance person told me about what I needed to do to get approval to extend the term on a grant, I wouldn't have listened.  But if it wasn't clear to me who did what, I might have inadvertently done so.  And if I knew that person and trusted them, and *I didn't know or trust the more relevant person*, I might either intentionally or unintentionally listed to advice from the wrong person.  Those are the things you can fix. Whether this person continues to be employed is mostly outside of your sphere of control, yet you are making it mostly the focus.  Fix your own authority and relationships, and then when she tries this stuff, she will be ignored and you will be notified.

I'm not actively trying to get her fired.  My opinion is that she should be.  I don't have authority to fire her, and my boss already knows my opinion when I told him several weeks ago.  There has been no further discussion about it.  I will bring to his attention anything I believe she is doing wrong that is going to have an impact on my ability to do my job, or anything I think will affect business, but other than that it's not my problem.  I will continue to post hilarious things I overhear her say, but only for entertainment purposes.  My boss is not reading this thread (I sure hope not).

We already have an industrial hygienist and safety consultant coming in to review our programs and help get things established.  I'll be the one working with them and will be cutting her out as much as possible.  Hopefully we can correct anything she's done wrong, and I will have documentation in place to back me up.  This way it won't be me saying you guys shouldn't be using bio hazard bags for paint cans, it will be a subject matter expert saying "this is the correct way this needs to be done" and I can rely on that.

[norajean]

You seem sort of passive-aggressive, posting all your gripes online instead of working directly with her and your team. What have you done directly to address the issues and what is your plan to resolve this?

[Case]

It seems to me that the focus shouldn't be on fixing her or getting her fired.  The focus should be on clearly delineating, *for your coworkers* what authorities you have, vs what she has.  Your focus seems to be on her, because you feel she is usurping your authority.  The solution to that seems to be shoring up your authority or makinf sure everyone else knows who to listen to regarding things in your sphere of responsibility.

I'm not doubting she's crazy.  I'm not doubting she sucks, or that she's doing things she shouldn't.

But it seems like people are inclined to listen to her instead of you.  That's what you need to address.  That's should be your focus.  Why, particularly in areas where it seems like the proper chain of command is clear, are they listening to her instead?  That suggest that there is an authority or respect issue, or that for some reason you aren't liked or trusted.  I'd start by trying to build better relationships with key colleagues, and by seeing if there is some way to better codify (as in, actually get it written down and distributed, if at all possible), what areas you "won".  With that done, and without making it in any way about here, spread that info far and wide.  Frame it as a helpful document, because there has been some confusion in the past, about what falls under your purview, and the ask people, if they receive information or direction on those things from anyone else, to please run it by you first, to avoid confusion, doubled or conflicting efforts, or any other possible complications.  Then thank them for helping you ensure nothing gets missed.

Focusing on removing her is the wrong approach for several reasons.  This is showing you that *you* have a work issue.  That's not a criticism; it's just kind of a thing that happens.  Something needs to shift so that you are the guy they listen to.  If at my job a finance person told me about what I needed to do to get approval to extend the term on a grant, I wouldn't have listened.  But if it wasn't clear to me who did what, I might have inadvertently done so.  And if I knew that person and trusted them, and *I didn't know or trust the more relevant person*, I might either intentionally or unintentionally listed to advice from the wrong person.  Those are the things you can fix. Whether this person continues to be employed is mostly outside of your sphere of control, yet you are making it mostly the focus.  Fix your own authority and relationships, and then when she tries this stuff, she will be ignored and you will be notified.

I'm not actively trying to get her fired.  My opinion is that she should be.  I don't have authority to fire her, and my boss already knows my opinion when I told him several weeks ago.  There has been no further discussion about it.  I will bring to his attention anything I believe she is doing wrong that is going to have an impact on my ability to do my job, or anything I think will affect business, but other than that it's not my problem.  I will continue to post hilarious things I overhear her say, but only for entertainment purposes.  My boss is not reading this thread (I sure hope not).

We already have an industrial hygienist and safety consultant coming in to review our programs and help get things established.  I'll be the one working with them and will be cutting her out as much as possible.  Hopefully we can correct anything she's done wrong, and I will have documentation in place to back me up.  This way it won't be me saying you guys shouldn't be using bio hazard bags for paint cans, it will be a subject matter expert saying "this is the correct way this needs to be done" and I can rely on that.

I work at a chemical company as a chemist, so perhaps I can relate.

Typically, chemical companies take safety and environmental/etc... very seriously.  They have to, because they are heavily regulated to do so.  Also, the hazards in such jobs are significantly higher than say for a law firm, or a software engineer (which basically have not job related hazards aside maybe from the commute to work).  The cultures in the companies I have worked in is very serious about this.  If you have a safety incident and someone is injured, it is common for the perpetrator to be fired even if it was an innocent mistake.  We have monthly safety meetings, to review how to be more safe.  We have 'safety moments' at most meetings, to reflect upon how we might be safer.  There is a constant barrage of reminders from leaders/executives about how safety is the top priority and we must pursue it above all else.  Of course, a lot of it is BS... but no one can deny that it is at least touted as some sort of high priority.

At my current and previous companies, if someone without credentials for it and not hired for that role, came in and started messing around with the pre-defined routines for safety/environmental/etc... it would cause problems.  It would get noticed.  They would probably be told to stop and not interfere with our current procedures.  If they persisted, I would not be surprised if they were fired.  I don't know the legality of how it all goes down... I suspect the company first has to generate a paper trail (documentation of her fuck ups) before firing her.

The only angle I would take in your situation is to indicate to management that she is jeopardizing the safety and/or environmental compliance of the company and its employees.  It seems you have done this already, so you are probably on the right track.  As others have indicated, keep a paper trail.

[PoutineLover]

Nanobots are real guys: https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=109379

Is that site even real? I read through that thread, and jumped up a level and looked at other threads.  I can't tell if it's full on crazy people or a parody of crazy people.

Same here, I just looked it over for a good 20 minuets and cannot tell if this is real or a troll website.

I honestly have no idea, I just found it when I searched for nanobots and vaccines and thought it was too funny not to post.

[Aegishjalmur]

Nanobots are real guys: https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=109379

Is that site even real? I read through that thread, and jumped up a level and looked at other threads.  I can't tell if it's full on crazy people or a parody of crazy people.

Same here, I just looked it over for a good 20 minuets and cannot tell if this is real or a troll website.

I honestly have no idea, I just found it when I searched for nanobots and vaccines and thought it was too funny not to post.

It's a parody site... But I am equally sure it isn't as much a parody as we would hope....

[Goldielocks]

I wish there was a like button so I could like every dumb thing this woman has done since this thread began.  She needs to be sat down by management and figure out what the fuck she is actually doing at this plant other than fucking with @frugalnacho 's job. It has gotten past the point of understanding another person, this is a job and you are royally fucking it up. FN, I feel for you.  You are not crazy, this lady is bat shit from the sounds of it. The spelling errors and the MSDS vs SDS things I could maybe see, but the "skeletosis", soot from the furnace, and nanobots? holy shit this is gold, prime content here.

I don't remember if I followed up about the furnace and the soot.  I got maintenance to come in and look at the furnace.  First thing he did is look at it and say "this is the exhaust pipe.  It's not even connected to the air circulating duct".  Then he got a vacuum and cleaned up the dust around the furnace, never cleaned anything inside the furnace or adjusted anything.  Mysteriously the ear aches and "sickness" that was plaguing her vanished overnight. 

This is and excellent guide for how to "win over" other staff -- small actions taken quickly to immediately show a response to a safety concern.   The actions don't even have to make a meaningful difference, it is just that you listen, act, and poof! the person feels that you are looking out for their welfare.  Buying PPE or bringing in the mechanical tech or whatever are obvious and easy for you to do.

It doesn't actually need to be technically correct or significant.  This is partly why Sandy is getting good responses from people.

[mozar]

I'm glad you are bringing in an official expert to codify things, but I think you should bring in sandy to take notes. It might make extra work for you to correct them but it will show you are team player. I've never seen it work in the long run to avoid difficult people.

I think you are misconstruing my confidence level too.  It's not that I lack confidence, it's that I lack confidence in areas I shouldn't be confident in.  I don't work in the paint booth, and I am unfamiliar with a lot of the chemicals they use.  When asked how to categorize and dispose of 30 different items...I don't know! I don't know that off the top of my head, I would have to check the hazardous waste regulations, check the chemical components, and make a determination of how to dispose of each item properly.  Then document that, and make it an official company policy for how we do it going forward, which apparently no one has ever done.  But WTF, how have you been disposing of everything for the last 20 years if you guys don't know?! In contrast safety sandy has the utmost confidence to start delegating that everything gets put into a bio waste bag, even though she's completely wrong!

This sounds like a task you should do.

[former player]

I'm glad you are bringing in an official expert to codify things, but I think you should bring in sandy to take notes. It might make extra work for you to correct them but it will show you are team player. I've never seen it work in the long run to avoid difficult people.

I think you are misconstruing my confidence level too.  It's not that I lack confidence, it's that I lack confidence in areas I shouldn't be confident in.  I don't work in the paint booth, and I am unfamiliar with a lot of the chemicals they use.  When asked how to categorize and dispose of 30 different items...I don't know! I don't know that off the top of my head, I would have to check the hazardous waste regulations, check the chemical components, and make a determination of how to dispose of each item properly.  Then document that, and make it an official company policy for how we do it going forward, which apparently no one has ever done.  But WTF, how have you been disposing of everything for the last 20 years if you guys don't know?! In contrast safety sandy has the utmost confidence to start delegating that everything gets put into a bio waste bag, even though she's completely wrong!

This sounds like a task you should do.

Yes.  Including checking 30 different types of paint, each no doubt with a long list of chemicals in its contents each to be checked against dozens or hundreds of pages of regulated chemicals and consequent disposal requirements, a job that could take days and no doubt has to be prioritised in OP's workload against all the other safety matters for which OP is responsible.

But no, along comes Safety Sandy, who has already made it quite clear that as an employee she doesn't and won't answer to OP, and says with a staggering lack of understanding that biological and chemical substances are actually different that chemicals should be disposed of as though they were biological substances.

And somehow this is OP's fault that he hasn't been doing his job properly?

wow.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I'm glad you are bringing in an official expert to codify things, but I think you should bring in sandy to take notes. It might make extra work for you to correct them but it will show you are team player. I've never seen it work in the long run to avoid difficult people.

I think you are misconstruing my confidence level too.  It's not that I lack confidence, it's that I lack confidence in areas I shouldn't be confident in.  I don't work in the paint booth, and I am unfamiliar with a lot of the chemicals they use.  When asked how to categorize and dispose of 30 different items...I don't know! I don't know that off the top of my head, I would have to check the hazardous waste regulations, check the chemical components, and make a determination of how to dispose of each item properly.  Then document that, and make it an official company policy for how we do it going forward, which apparently no one has ever done.  But WTF, how have you been disposing of everything for the last 20 years if you guys don't know?! In contrast safety sandy has the utmost confidence to start delegating that everything gets put into a bio waste bag, even though she's completely wrong!

This sounds like a task you should do.

Yes.  Including checking 30 different types of paint, each no doubt with a long list of chemicals in its contents each to be checked against dozens or hundreds of pages of regulated chemicals and consequent disposal requirements, a job that could take days and no doubt has to be prioritised in OP's workload against all the other safety matters for which OP is responsible.

But no, along comes Safety Sandy, who has already made it quite clear that as an employee she doesn't and won't answer to OP, and says with a staggering lack of understanding that biological and chemical substances are actually different that chemicals should be disposed of as though they were biological substances.

And somehow this is OP's fault that he hasn't been doing his job properly?

wow.

I totally agree. The OP has no role in this situation other than trying to do his job and keep an interfering and ignorant person out of his job. This is not a go-getter situation. This is a delusional person willfully overstepping her professional boundaries to the potential detriment of both the OP and the company. It needs to stop. Go-getters put their hand up for tasks and do things beyond their remit WITH FULL AGREEMENT OF MANAGEMENT. That allows management the chance to mitigate any potential conflict (or conflict of interest) and/or foresee any issues that may arise down the track. That is most definitely not the case here.

[KBecks]

Have I misread, or did someone at the company approve the co-worker's food for the meeting?  Someone must have endorsed it.