Author Topic: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts  (Read 16248 times)

jeromedawg

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Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« on: March 09, 2015, 11:56:13 AM »
So this has been covered before (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/jealousy/) and I'm sure everyone here deals with it in some way, shape, or form. I know the canned-response is to "ignore them" or "be thankful for what you have" but honestly, it's too easy not going with the canned-response and to vent like I'm doing so now LOL! I'll probably get a few face-punches for my venting and ranting but here goes...

A buddy of mine from college just posted on FB that he and his wife bought a new home. It looks super-fancy and there are a number of posts from others congratulating them; many along the lines of "Congrats! Where?" - the second question I'm assuming induced by jealousy.

I think many of his posts are unintentional "troll" posts seeking attention. Most of the time they're negative but this was a positive. I am happy for him to a certain extent but then I almost get annoyed and ask why even post something like this? Then I ask myself if I'd ever post a picture of myself in front of a nice new big house on social media and my intentions of doing so (I still don't know what the answer is hahaha! Maybe if I wanted to make a ton of people super jealous for no good reason, then yeah). And then I wonder things like "how can they afford this?", "how much do they make?", "property taxes must be killer!" (and they are).

I did a bit of sleuthing/stalking and found the address and value of the home on Zillow. It's valued at $1.2 million! This guy is probably on a salary of no more than $80-85k per year. But his wife is a business owner/CFP who I'm guessing makes around $200k, so they're definitely OK to say the least. But I'm sure I wouldn't be seeing these kinds of posts if she wasn't that presumably well-off. I think she previously owned a town home and likely sold it and rolled the funds into the new place.
See, I'm already laying out all the facts without really knowing them. I feel like how I'm reacting now *is* what jealousy does to people!!

Anyway, besides the fact that a $1.2 million dollar property seems inherently anti-mustachian IMHO (but it's all relative right? :)), as well as $20k worth of property taxes, I still find it difficult to come up with the ammo sufficient to combat this jealousy army.

Of course, the easiest solution is just to get myself off Facebook all together!

EDIT: hope my buddy and his wife don't read the MMM forums! If they do and are reading this, I apologize but you just made a ton of us jealous!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 12:32:58 PM by jplee3 »

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 12:03:15 PM »
I actually feel sorry for someone blowing that much $$ on a house. Even if your income estimate is in the ballpark, they will be house poor.

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 12:09:24 PM »
I actually feel sorry for someone blowing that much $$ on a house. Even if your income estimate is in the ballpark, they will be house poor.

Unless the town home they were in (which was presumably paid off and fully owned) was valued not too far under that (I'm guessing at least $700k-800k valuation as the town home was in the same neighborhood but just a smaller unit [and a town home]). In that case, they either had an extra $400-500k sitting around (I wouldn't be surprised with a CFP having that) or a huge down-payment. In either case, I'm guessing they're just in a really fluffy financial situation right now. Or at least that's what it looks like (but wouldn't it always *look* that way for anyone buying something that pricey?)

It would still hurt A LOT to see a property tax bill of $10k twice a year though. Maybe it would be different if I were a multi-millionaire/billionaire cause you know, that's just chump-change to those guys LOL

capitalguy

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 12:09:52 PM »
Just on the point of the expensive house - my ultimate goal involves buying a nice, big roughly $700,000k house as our 'forever' home, probably in the next 5 years. Seems like this is almost universally frowned upon here, but one of our priorities is to have our dream house. We know we will be paying more in property taxes and bills, but obviously factor that into our plan.

caliq

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 12:12:04 PM »
I posted pictures of our first house on Facebook when we did our final walk through :/

But it's a 1500 sq ft ranch and we paid 200k -- I'm ahead of the curve for my age in terms of buying, but DH is right on time.  So maybe it looked like I was trying to make my peers jealous, but that wasn't the intent.  Honestly the only thought was that I was excited and wanted to share -- do people really put a huge amount of thought into the intentions behind their social media posts?  I wasn't trying to brag, though it is a nice house (granite, stainless, blah blah blah).  I think I mostly wanted to share it with his family -- they all live 1000+ miles away and still haven't been out to visit, even though we bought it more than a year ago.  They'll probably never see it in person, tbh.

Just another perspective -- they really might not be intending to make people jealous.


RexualChocolate

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2015, 12:12:48 PM »
Utilize the "unfollow" option on posts in the top right. Life's too short to listen to braggarts. Social media is worse than occasional bragging in casual conversation since it has to be premeditated instead of just running off at the mouth.

Why anyone thinks I care about their pyramid scheme service they're selling or their diet or their political rants or their exercise regimen or whatever retail item they've acquired, including houses, is beyond me.

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2015, 12:13:34 PM »
Just on the point of the expensive house - my ultimate goal involves buying a nice, big roughly $700,000k house as our 'forever' home, probably in the next 5 years. Seems like this is almost universally frowned upon here, but one of our priorities is to have our dream house. We know we will be paying more in property taxes and bills, but obviously factor that into our plan.

Same here man, $700k would buy something pretty sufficient in my area for sure. Especially if I'm not choosy about the particular city we'd be living in. Right now I'm in a smallish condo, with a little one on the way (due August). I'm starting to get a little bit antsy about how things will look especially with my wife and I talking about her being at home and not working (at least for a while). Lots of things up in the air for us. So when I see posts like what I described, it has some kind of effect on me (and probably not a very good one).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 12:26:11 PM by jplee3 »

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2015, 12:18:46 PM »
I posted pictures of our first house on Facebook when we did our final walk through :/

But it's a 1500 sq ft ranch and we paid 200k -- I'm ahead of the curve for my age in terms of buying, but DH is right on time.  So maybe it looked like I was trying to make my peers jealous, but that wasn't the intent.  Honestly the only thought was that I was excited and wanted to share -- do people really put a huge amount of thought into the intentions behind their social media posts?  I wasn't trying to brag, though it is a nice house (granite, stainless, blah blah blah).  I think I mostly wanted to share it with his family -- they all live 1000+ miles away and still haven't been out to visit, even though we bought it more than a year ago.  They'll probably never see it in person, tbh.

Just another perspective -- they really might not be intending to make people jealous.

This is very true. It might be a little bit of both but moreso the excitement of owning a nice new home and letting everyone know. I'm sure if he *really* wanted to make people jealous he'd list how much it cost! Then it would be too obvious.

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 12:23:34 PM »
Utilize the "unfollow" option on posts in the top right. Life's too short to listen to braggarts. Social media is worse than occasional bragging in casual conversation since it has to be premeditated instead of just running off at the mouth.

Why anyone thinks I care about their pyramid scheme service they're selling or their diet or their political rants or their exercise regimen or whatever retail item they've acquired, including houses, is beyond me.


If I could "Like" this I would.... hahaha!

ZiziPB

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 12:27:42 PM »
Utilize the "unfollow" option on posts in the top right. Life's too short to listen to braggarts. Social media is worse than occasional bragging in casual conversation since it has to be premeditated instead of just running off at the mouth.

Why anyone thinks I care about their pyramid scheme service they're selling or their diet or their political rants or their exercise regimen or whatever retail item they've acquired, including houses, is beyond me.

+1  I am strongly considering closing my FB account altogether exactly because of this.  The only reason I still haven't done it is because I'm friends with my DD and some of her friends/flatmates and it's nice to see what they're up to (they're all students on another continent so it's not as easy to keep in touch otherwise).  But I have definitely unfollowed a bunch of people whose posts got on my nerves.

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2015, 12:30:29 PM »
I am happy for him to a certain extent but then I almost get annoyed and ask why even post something like this? Then I ask myself if I'd ever post a picture of myself in front of a nice new big house on social media and my intentions of doing so (I still don't know what the answer is hahaha! Maybe if I wanted to make a ton of people super jealous for no good reason, then year).

I fully intend on one freezing winter day in 10 years posting a Facebook photo of myself in front my new, small, tropical beach home with the caption, "What?  Are you suckas seriously still working for a living?!  ...I told you all those SUVs, granite countertops, and Starbucks coffees weren't worth it."  :)

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2015, 12:31:38 PM »
Utilize the "unfollow" option on posts in the top right. Life's too short to listen to braggarts. Social media is worse than occasional bragging in casual conversation since it has to be premeditated instead of just running off at the mouth.

Why anyone thinks I care about their pyramid scheme service they're selling or their diet or their political rants or their exercise regimen or whatever retail item they've acquired, including houses, is beyond me.

+1  I am strongly considering closing my FB account altogether exactly because of this.  The only reason I still haven't done it is because I'm friends with my DD and some of her friends/flatmates and it's nice to see what they're up to (they're all students on another continent so it's not as easy to keep in touch otherwise).  But I have definitely unfollowed a bunch of people whose posts got on my nerves.

Exactly - FB is definitely useful for keeping in touch with certain people and just getting general updates. But there are some who constantly post political stuff as well as brags and humblebrags that I could care less for. I think I'll have to resort to using "unfollow" more generously. I've only used it once for one "friend" who constantly posted political rants... it was flooding my stream like crazy.

In fact, my wife told me that my SIL had to unfollow my buddy (who I posted) about because every other post of his was always complaining about something. She got so tired of it so I think has unfollowed him. And if it wasn't for my wife, there's a chance I wouldn't have even known about the new house. Maybe I should make my wife start unfollowing people too.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 12:34:49 PM by jplee3 »

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2015, 12:42:07 PM »
I just do not see how sharing pictures of your new home can be considered a "troll" post at all.


A new home is a big thing for most people, they want to share their excitement with their friends (and that is who is on facebook, friends. If you aren't friends or don't care to see the things they want to share with their friends- unfriend them).  I've shared photos of both my houses- the crappy one and the nice one. I enjoy seeing photos of my friends' homes. Why? Because they are my friends and I am interested in their lives. I like knowing where they live and what the rooms look like.  We live in a very mobile era- I don't live close to many of my friends. Photographs are how we keep in touch.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 12:44:48 PM by iowajes »

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2015, 12:44:51 PM »
I don't think this is bragging, per se, but just the kind of thing that people post on Facebook all the time. Relationship status, jobs, babies, large purchases, etc. are just par for the course on the site. If this "friend" is also posting a lot complaints, he's probably unhappy, and will also be unhappy with his mansion. I wouldn't feel jealous, I'd feel sorry for him, and likely unfollow and tell my spouse I don't care to hear about his updates, even secondhand.

Exflyboy

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2015, 12:47:03 PM »
Whenever I feel like this (and I often do) I remind myself they have "Stuff" (stuff they don't really own could be taken from them if they lose their jobs.. or stuck with in market downturn).. Whereas I have financial freedom.

To a lesser extent I see this with the daughter of a family friends.. up to her ears in debt and just gone and financed a brand new diesel powered car ($25k) and she is going on on FB about what great gas mileage she gets.. Leased the bloody thing and will be in debt for the rest of her life.

And here is my Wife driving her 2 year old Cevvy Cruze that ONLY gets 38mpg or so.. but we paid $12k cash.. She will probably spend close to $40k on her new car that gets 50mpg... But all her friends are oohing and ahhing... Barf!

Whats more valuable.. stuff or freedom?

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2015, 01:02:28 PM »
We have some acquaintances who are fairly wealthy...and take every opportunity on FB to make damn sure everyone else knows it.  The post pictures of every single thing they do:  drinking a $400 / bottle wine (and telling everyone how much it cost, along with some pix of the little villa they stayed in during their 3 week trip to Napa), smoking expensive imported cigars, pictures from their seats in the club suite section of whatever professional sporting event they are attending, $500 front row concert seats with the price prominently displayed...Just truly obnoxious.  Someone had said something to me once a couple years ago basically accusing me of bragging after posting pix from our latest dive trip (I truly wasn't bragging...not my style at all, just sharing what I thought were beautiful pictures).  I was kind of offended, but after seeing this clown and being truly repulsed by what he does online, I can see how someone might have taken my pix in that way.  Anyway...FB has kind of lots it's entertainment value for me, nothing but highly opinionated political and/or religious commentary, both of which I tend to steer clear of.   

RexualChocolate

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2015, 01:56:39 PM »
We have some acquaintances who are fairly wealthy...and take every opportunity on FB to make damn sure everyone else knows it.  The post pictures of every single thing they do:  drinking a $400 / bottle wine (and telling everyone how much it cost, along with some pix of the little villa they stayed in during their 3 week trip to Napa), smoking expensive imported cigars, pictures from their seats in the club suite section of whatever professional sporting event they are attending, $500 front row concert seats with the price prominently displayed...Just truly obnoxious.  Someone had said something to me once a couple years ago basically accusing me of bragging after posting pix from our latest dive trip (I truly wasn't bragging...not my style at all, just sharing what I thought were beautiful pictures).  I was kind of offended, but after seeing this clown and being truly repulsed by what he does online, I can see how someone might have taken my pix in that way.  Anyway...FB has kind of lots it's entertainment value for me, nothing but highly opinionated political and/or religious commentary, both of which I tend to steer clear of.   

I really believe in Capitalism, but the last few years I realized how one's ability to generate productivity and be compensated for it are very decoupled from what type of human being you are. Could even argue mild negative correlation.

These type of people are terrible.

Please don't stop posting pictures of legitimate awesome experiences like diving pictures or crazy locales. I get bored of lazy beach pictures but under the water is a whole different story.

Lis

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2015, 02:03:09 PM »
I don't consider it bragging, I consider it a way to get reassurance that you're on a good path and doing well from like-minded friends. Like iowajes said really well, Facebook is for your friends. In our society, which also has been discussed a whole bunch of times on this forum, we value consumerism, whether it's a fancy house, car, gadget, whatever. Again, as has been discussed here, Mustachians tend to be the odd one out here. Which is why you jumped onto this site to discuss with your like-minded friends whether or not how you felt was appropriate.

The fact that he didn't post "look at my $1.2 million dollar house!" and list every amenity it offered shows he wasn't trolling. I find it more disconcerting that you actually took the time to look up the address on Zillow to see the value, which is notoriously wrong anyway.

I will never understand why people complain about what they see on Facebook. Either he's a good friend and you bite your tongue and say "congrats!" or he's not that good a friend and you either scroll pass, unfollow, or unfriend.

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2015, 02:04:16 PM »
We have some acquaintances who are fairly wealthy...and take every opportunity on FB to make damn sure everyone else knows it.  The post pictures of every single thing they do:  drinking a $400 / bottle wine (and telling everyone how much it cost, along with some pix of the little villa they stayed in during their 3 week trip to Napa), smoking expensive imported cigars, pictures from their seats in the club suite section of whatever professional sporting event they are attending, $500 front row concert seats with the price prominently displayed...Just truly obnoxious.  Someone had said something to me once a couple years ago basically accusing me of bragging after posting pix from our latest dive trip (I truly wasn't bragging...not my style at all, just sharing what I thought were beautiful pictures).  I was kind of offended, but after seeing this clown and being truly repulsed by what he does online, I can see how someone might have taken my pix in that way.  Anyway...FB has kind of lots it's entertainment value for me, nothing but highly opinionated political and/or religious commentary, both of which I tend to steer clear of.   

I really believe in Capitalism, but the last few years I realized how one's ability to generate productivity and be compensated for it are very decoupled from what type of human being you are. Could even argue mild negative correlation.

These type of people are terrible.

Please don't stop posting pictures of legitimate awesome experiences like diving pictures or crazy locales. I get bored of lazy beach pictures but under the water is a whole different story.

lol! on a related now, i get tired of a certain couple that was posting endless pictures and videos of them spoiling their "cute" pet rabbits (taking them on "walks" on leashes and in a jogging stroller and showing how "cute" they are). if it happens again, i'll remember to "unfollow"

i love underwater pics as well and am big into fishing, so i'll occasionally post some pics of my catches but it's not that often since i don't go out all that often (open party boat fishing gets expensive so my only real avenue these days is going down to the beach, which can still be fun if you are actually getting bites).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 02:05:53 PM by jplee3 »

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2015, 02:05:43 PM »
I had a similar situation recently but it made me sad for my friends.  They are not high income earners but recently bought a ginormous house, with obligatory posts to FB. 
It made me feel really bad for them, not pity exactly, but sad.  Why anyone would need 5,500+ sq. ft of living space for 2 adults and 3 small children is beyond me.  Why would you waste so much of your precious resources (and our resources) for that? 

I have un-followed almost everyone on FB and now just use it to keep track of friends scattered across the globe and to remind me of peoples birthday.

If Facebook, or any other form of media, induce such negative emotions for you the simple answer is to stop using that particular source.  I gave up main stream news many years ago and have been infinitely happier for it.

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2015, 02:13:48 PM »
I don't consider it bragging, I consider it a way to get reassurance that you're on a good path and doing well from like-minded friends. Like iowajes said really well, Facebook is for your friends. In our society, which also has been discussed a whole bunch of times on this forum, we value consumerism, whether it's a fancy house, car, gadget, whatever. Again, as has been discussed here, Mustachians tend to be the odd one out here. Which is why you jumped onto this site to discuss with your like-minded friends whether or not how you felt was appropriate.

The fact that he didn't post "look at my $1.2 million dollar house!" and list every amenity it offered shows he wasn't trolling. I find it more disconcerting that you actually took the time to look up the address on Zillow to see the value, which is notoriously wrong anyway.

I will never understand why people complain about what they see on Facebook. Either he's a good friend and you bite your tongue and say "congrats!" or he's not that good a friend and you either scroll pass, unfollow, or unfriend.

*facepunch* to my face

Admittedly, I shouldn't have gone that far to look up but I was really interested in knowing where he was living in general because I lost track of his address after he got married (my wife had to get it from her old contact info). The only primary ways we've kept in touch are via Facebook if anything. Once I saw the picture, I asked my wife "where are they living anyway?" partially out of curiosity but the jealousy-induced mind also raced over to Zillow to get the details. 

I'm a red panda

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2015, 02:14:16 PM »
Someone had said something to me once a couple years ago basically accusing me of bragging after posting pix from our latest dive trip (I truly wasn't bragging...not my style at all, just sharing what I thought were beautiful pictures). 

It really isn't possible to post about a scuba trip without sounding like you are bragging.  The pictures from out last trip the comments ranged from "wow, amazing", and "ooh sharks are scary!" (um, nurse sharks aren't), and lots of "wow, that must be nice to be able to afford" (from people who waste way more money than we spent on the trip.)

Which is why I don't think people's posts are bragging 90% of the time, no matter how consumer oriented they are.  If they post from a luxury cruise ship, it's probably because they want to share their vacation photos, not just to rub in that they took a luxury cruise, and you didn't.  If they post their new deck, it's to show people the new deck, not to rub in that you don't have one. 

People are just sharing their lives.  Very few are intending it as bragging.

You do occasionally get the humble brag, when someone is complaining about a situation that everyone else wishes they were in, but they aren't that common. (I find it is really more celebrities on twitter who humble brag.)

I'm a red panda

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 02:17:01 PM »
but the jealousy-induced mind also raced over to Zillow to get the details.

Why are you jealous?  Do you want a 1.2 million dollar home? 

If you want a bigger home, do you want it more than FI?  Prioritize. If you want the home, then do what it takes to get it.  That might mean working until you are 80.  Most of the people on this website have picked the other option.  This guy clearly would rather have a nice house then money in the markets.

Now, if they have this home, and FI- well, maybe be a little jealous, but really, it is all trade-offs. There is a negative to everyone's life and a positive.

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2015, 02:17:25 PM »
People have all sorts of different rules they follow about what they will or will not post on Facebook. So, for some the new house or whatever is a celebration, or a brag, or a way to keep updated w/ their friends. There are other people who post pictures of their dinner, or a fish they caught, or their kid graduating from preschool - which I guess could also be seen as bragging if you are in the frame of mind to see it that way.

What people in general - at least as far as I've seen - do not post on Facebook is details of their financial lives or many unhappy events . So, for all you know that couple is on the verge of bankruptcy, or divorce, or maybe one of their parent's died and left them money, or maybe one of their parents is sick and needs to live with them and they had to buy a larger house. There is just no way to know what the rest of the story might be.

If it bugs you, unfollow or unfriend them. If you can take a different perspective so that it doesn't' worry you, then do that.

TheBuddha

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2015, 02:17:53 PM »
Whats more valuable.. stuff or freedom?

Stuff sucks.

I've kept stuff in storage for three years and am in the process of disposing of it.

I've realized stuff is expensive to buy, store, and get rid of.

Stuff sucks.

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2015, 02:20:55 PM »
but the jealousy-induced mind also raced over to Zillow to get the details.

Why are you jealous?  Do you want a 1.2 million dollar home? 

If you want a bigger home, do you want it more than FI?  Prioritize. If you want the home, then do what it takes to get it.  That might mean working until you are 80.  Most of the people on this website have picked the other option.  This guy clearly would rather have a nice house then money in the markets.

Now, if they have this home, and FI- well, maybe be a little jealous, but really, it is all trade-offs. There is a negative to everyone's life and a positive.

That's a tough one. I think in the area I live in, the "American Dream" of owning a large house is so prevalent that it's a rarity to find anyone who's content with FI/RE or let alone knows what it is lol. I think the influence of the former always pulls at my strings but the more I come back here and read all the no-nonsense posts, I get put back into my place. So thanks everyone for chiming in! And yea, they *likely* do have this home + FI but also a huge property tax bill and probably a few other "unforseens"
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 02:23:06 PM by jplee3 »

Lis

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2015, 02:21:46 PM »
Ok I reread what I wrote and that came off a lot meaner sounding than what I intended. No facepunches thrown!

On a more Mustachian note, I posted on Facebook a few days ago "Made my last student loan payment! Goodbye Sallie Mae!" I was met with a few (jokingly, I hope) "I hate you" and "you suck" from friends, but the overwhelming amount of posts I got were likes and various forms of congratulations! Actually, my best friend told me in one breath "congrats and I hate you so much right now." I didn't mean to brag... most of my friends are around my age or a bit older and still have loans from college. And I truly believe they meant it when they said congrats, just as I would have if they had posted it.

Of course, I had to follow up the next day with a post showing my student loan balance of $0.34 because Sallie Mae is the absolute worst. I got a lot of laughs out of that.

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2015, 02:25:13 PM »
Whats more valuable.. stuff or freedom?

Stuff sucks.

I've kept stuff in storage for three years and am in the process of disposing of it.

I've realized stuff is expensive to buy, store, and get rid of.

Stuff sucks.

Yea tell me about it. My wife hates my "stuff" - I just tore down a small 4x4 table in our kitchen that was taking up space and that my mom 'volunteered' for us to give away to my cousin who's moving to Northern California soon for her apartment. After clearing it out, and decluttering a bit, our tiny kitchen feels twice as open as it was before. It's the best feeling ever. I just have to keep this streak going for all the other rooms in our condo and pretty soon it'll feel like a mansion! LOL

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2015, 02:34:03 PM »
Ok I reread what I wrote and that came off a lot meaner sounding than what I intended. No facepunches thrown!

On a more Mustachian note, I posted on Facebook a few days ago "Made my last student loan payment! Goodbye Sallie Mae!" I was met with a few (jokingly, I hope) "I hate you" and "you suck" from friends, but the overwhelming amount of posts I got were likes and various forms of congratulations! Actually, my best friend told me in one breath "congrats and I hate you so much right now." I didn't mean to brag... most of my friends are around my age or a bit older and still have loans from college. And I truly believe they meant it when they said congrats, just as I would have if they had posted it.

Of course, I had to follow up the next day with a post showing my student loan balance of $0.34 because Sallie Mae is the absolute worst. I got a lot of laughs out of that.

No you speak truth. Totally called me out on the Zillow thing too. I find I do that when a friend or someone I know has recently moved, but usually it's because I want to get an idea of the general area they moved to and what the comps are in case we might *ever* be interested (because we have discussed moving into a slightly bigger place). Especially if it's in an area where the home prices are less expensive. All that said, the more I think about it, the more I realize that with the exception of the foot-traffic from our upstairs neighbor, we're in a really good location and have plenty of space for at least one addition to the family. If we plan on two, I think it's still doable but would start getting pretty tight. Seeing other people get larger homes just triggers something inside of me that makes me want something bigger too. But when it's a friend who just bought a mansion-sized home, that's just insane (this might actually be the first time this has happened which could explain my [over]reaction LOL)

But yea, I can see how paying off debt could trigger some to half-jokingly say "I hate you" and other stuff like that. At least you didn't say "YES! I just made the last payment on my TESLA!" :P It doesn't sound like bragging to me though. I guess different things sound like bragging (and not) to different people at the end of the day. Of course, a lot of it is context and circumstance too. I still think this was a bit of a brag but more just a post of out excitement. Similar to me posting up a picture of a 27" halibut I caught a few years ago from the beach - I was super excited about it but yea why else would I post that? I'm sure it had the reverse-effect and grossed out a fair amount of people anyway.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 02:36:10 PM by jplee3 »

Sid Hoffman

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2015, 03:40:25 PM »
I really believe in Capitalism, but the last few years I realized how one's ability to generate productivity and be compensated for it are very decoupled from what type of human being you are. Could even argue mild negative correlation.

These type of people are terrible.

Please don't stop posting pictures of legitimate awesome experiences like diving pictures or crazy locales. I get bored of lazy beach pictures but under the water is a whole different story.

I've got news for you: the rich and the poor are frequently the same people, just the rich are able to indulge in all the things that the poor can't afford to.  Look at the way lottery winners so frequently have very bad endings to their lotto dreams.  That's the exact same poor person, but with a boatload of money now.  Guess what: the old saying about "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" tends to be true.  It's not that money is evil, it's that people have evil in their hearts and the more money they have, the more visible that evil is to others.

Everybody's different, but I'd say that it's probably 70/30 or maybe even 80/20 in terms of the majority of people being inherently selfish in most of their actions, as opposed the minority who are inherently selfless in most of their actions.  I think lottery winners are a great example because it takes poor to middle-class people and suddenly gives them the means to do anything.  Do they choose to help others?  To give to charities?  To live simply and enjoy a healthy lifestyle?  Far and away no.  See link above.  They generally just seek to indulge in every type of selfish pleasure they can dream up.  The lottery is like a great spotlight into the hearts of ordinary people so we can see what they are really made of.

jeromedawg

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2015, 04:11:52 PM »
I really believe in Capitalism, but the last few years I realized how one's ability to generate productivity and be compensated for it are very decoupled from what type of human being you are. Could even argue mild negative correlation.

These type of people are terrible.

Please don't stop posting pictures of legitimate awesome experiences like diving pictures or crazy locales. I get bored of lazy beach pictures but under the water is a whole different story.

I've got news for you: the rich and the poor are frequently the same people, just the rich are able to indulge in all the things that the poor can't afford to.  Look at the way lottery winners so frequently have very bad endings to their lotto dreams.  That's the exact same poor person, but with a boatload of money now.  Guess what: the old saying about "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" tends to be true.  It's not that money is evil, it's that people have evil in their hearts and the more money they have, the more visible that evil is to others.

Everybody's different, but I'd say that it's probably 70/30 or maybe even 80/20 in terms of the majority of people being inherently selfish in most of their actions, as opposed the minority who are inherently selfless in most of their actions.  I think lottery winners are a great example because it takes poor to middle-class people and suddenly gives them the means to do anything.  Do they choose to help others?  To give to charities?  To live simply and enjoy a healthy lifestyle?  Far and away no.  See link above.  They generally just seek to indulge in every type of selfish pleasure they can dream up.  The lottery is like a great spotlight into the hearts of ordinary people so we can see what they are really made of.

Much wisdom here. Kind reminds me of the saying from the Bible that "the *love* of money is the root of all kinds of evil" - the money itself is just a means or tool. Expanding on that, it would be like someone who is consumed by their possessions to go and say something like "If I had a million dollars I would feed every starving child in the world..." there would of course be that precursor of "...but only after I've 'satisfied' my own 'needs'" - and it's exactly this statement that is going to have different definitions for every single person, myself included.

Miss Prim

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2015, 03:22:20 AM »
I just can not understand jealousy at all!  I am so thankful for what I have myself that I would not want to trade places with anyone!  Recently, good friends of ours started getting oil money because they are on 40 acres that have oil underneath.  We were extremely happy for them because they are our good friends and that's what friends are for, to share your joy. 

Honestly, and I don't want to face-punch you, but if you are jealous of people, the problem is with you not them.

                                                                                       Miss Prim

Louisville

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2015, 06:04:01 AM »
So this has been covered before (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/jealousy/) and I'm sure everyone here deals with it in some way, shape, or form. I know the canned-response is to "ignore them" or "be thankful for what you have" but honestly, it's too easy not going with the canned-response and to vent like I'm doing so now LOL! I'll probably get a few face-punches for my venting and ranting but here goes...

A buddy of mine from college just posted on FB that he and his wife bought a new home. It looks super-fancy and there are a number of posts from others congratulating them; many along the lines of "Congrats! Where?" - the second question I'm assuming induced by jealousy.

I think many of his posts are unintentional "troll" posts seeking attention. Most of the time they're negative but this was a positive. I am happy for him to a certain extent but then I almost get annoyed and ask why even post something like this? Then I ask myself if I'd ever post a picture of myself in front of a nice new big house on social media and my intentions of doing so (I still don't know what the answer is hahaha! Maybe if I wanted to make a ton of people super jealous for no good reason, then yeah). And then I wonder things like "how can they afford this?", "how much do they make?", "property taxes must be killer!" (and they are).

I did a bit of sleuthing/stalking and found the address and value of the home on Zillow. It's valued at $1.2 million! This guy is probably on a salary of no more than $80-85k per year. But his wife is a business owner/CFP who I'm guessing makes around $200k, so they're definitely OK to say the least. But I'm sure I wouldn't be seeing these kinds of posts if she wasn't that presumably well-off. I think she previously owned a town home and likely sold it and rolled the funds into the new place.
See, I'm already laying out all the facts without really knowing them. I feel like how I'm reacting now *is* what jealousy does to people!!

Anyway, besides the fact that a $1.2 million dollar property seems inherently anti-mustachian IMHO (but it's all relative right? :)), as well as $20k worth of property taxes, I still find it difficult to come up with the ammo sufficient to combat this jealousy army.

Of course, the easiest solution is just to get myself off Facebook all together!

EDIT: hope my buddy and his wife don't read the MMM forums! If they do and are reading this, I apologize but you just made a ton of us jealous!
You need something real to occupy your time.

mbl

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2015, 07:17:07 AM »
Responses that attempt to  qualify, discount and denigrate that which someone else has or has done.  Why is it necessary to belittle or disparage someone who has different values and has made different choices?   The overwhelming need to "uncover"  that these choices are flawed?

What is it that prompts such a response?   Discomfort or resentment of someone who makes different choices ?   The view to the outside word that this individual is successful,  happy, or has some perceived advantage over  everyone else?  Why are  those things bothersome? Is it a need to have one's own choices validated?

There hasn't been some court of values that has determined that for everyone there is one and only one way to live with regard to our material life.  To each his own. 
 Observation of the many mean spirited responses to someone else's life choices that are, in the overall view of things, benign,  I  often suspect is based on the reader's own issues.

hunniebun

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2015, 07:32:39 AM »
I fall prey to facebook jealousy from time to time as well. What I have learned is that you can never know someone's situation. In many cases where I see friends buying big ticket items like homes, cars or luxury vacations the source of funds is one of two things - a windfall (usually an inheritance from a grandparent or other family member they have lost) or a big loan amortized over a long period of time (I have heard of lots of 35 year mortgages or 8 year car loans).  I like all my family members to be healthy and well and I don't want a decade of payments to own a car to take me from point a to b.  Think about it that way usually makes the feeling pass.  I think it is  natural to feel a twinge of jealousy, the key is how you respond to it.  Acknowledge it and move on...try not to waste your precious life energy stalking it out and justifying it!  Easier said than done, but worth a try.

iamadummy

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2015, 07:45:39 AM »
they should just rename facebook to bragbook

thurston howell iv

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2015, 08:44:03 AM »
I fully intend on one freezing winter day in 10 years posting a Facebook photo of myself in front my new, small, tropical beach home with the caption, "What?  Are you suckas seriously still working for a living?!  ...I told you all those SUVs, granite countertops, and Starbucks coffees weren't worth it."  :)

Best post on this thread! I love it.

BTW, I suppose the OP has a point on the whole jealously thing. It's human nature to see and want. I drive a 17 year old econocar- it gets great mpg. I'd prefer a big S Class Benz or 7 Series (used of course, I'm not THAT crazy) but, then I think about all the little things that we do that set us back and I refrain...   While I am a gearhead- it really is just a car that gets me from point A to point B (Jeez, I sound like my father!)

A big fancy house is cool but it's just a house. You're still gonna cook the same food, watch the same tv, sleep in the same bed, crap in the bathroom. Only the rooms in which you do so will change. Is the change really worth the extra expense?  Personally, it seems more like "looking good and going nowhere"

I don't have facebook. Never understood the appeal of TMI. (mine or any one else's)

HazelStone

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2015, 08:49:25 AM »

What people in general - at least as far as I've seen - do not post on Facebook is details of their financial lives or many unhappy events . So, for all you know that couple is on the verge of bankruptcy, or divorce, or maybe one of their parent's died and left them money, or maybe one of their parents is sick and needs to live with them and they had to buy a larger house. There is just no way to know what the rest of the story might be.


Some people also don't post the negative stuff because they get sick of other acquaintances using Facebook to spew their negativity or indulge in drama-queening. But people with this restraint usually aren't the same as those posting brag pictures.

rmendpara

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2015, 08:53:55 AM »
Now if they had a 1.1 million house fully paid for... I'd be very jealous!

HazelStone

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2015, 09:30:41 AM »
I fall prey to facebook jealousy from time to time as well. What I have learned is that you can never know someone's situation. In many cases where I see friends buying big ticket items like homes, cars or luxury vacations the source of funds is one of two things - a windfall (usually an inheritance from a grandparent or other family member they have lost) or a big loan amortized over a long period of time (I have heard of lots of 35 year mortgages or 8 year car loans).  I like all my family members to be healthy and well and I don't want a decade of payments to own a car to take me from point a to b.  Think about it that way usually makes the feeling pass.  I think it is  natural to feel a twinge of jealousy, the key is how you respond to it.  Acknowledge it and move on...try not to waste your precious life energy stalking it out and justifying it!  Easier said than done, but worth a try.

The key difference, I think, is knowing you'd have the option do to the flashy/spendy choice if you wanted to, but choose not to. I grew up in an economically depressed region and struggled a while after college since I couldn't get my feet under me career-wise. If I'd made more money I would have bought a more reliable car, not a flashy one. I would have been renting in a slightly nicer area (where I could actually get sleep at night) and saving aggressively toward a house, and bought a modest one. Since ALL I could afford was an old GM POS with ignition issues and a crappy apartment surrounded by noisy drunks, the dynamic was very different upon comparing- because I didn't really have alternatives at the time (try though I might).

I first heard about Facebook from my (now husband) while he was still in school and membership was restricted to .edu email addresses (2005-2006?). The initial/core audience was college students and recent grads, and in the very early days basically those who went to relatively prestigious schools and recent grads. So in its formative stages you had all these upper middle class overachiever kids using it as a virtual Christmas newsletter- and I think that set the tone. Its first user base was people with high expectations, competitive natures, and largely the means and connections to show off. It used to be you could just cut short talking with your mom or aunts if they launched into what your cousin or your old classmates were doing. Not anymore. Once "Grandma" signs onto a social media platform, it's no longer cool, but damn if she doesn't use it to get even MORE fodder on how well so-and-so is doing!

I've seen enough to know how many cracks there can be in someone's facade- and that someone on top of the world one year can have it crashing down on them the next. Now, while I "could" have a newer, flashier car, I have a good, reliable one and am content. Now I live in a house in a decent neighborhood, and have my own four walls- older and smaller than we'd like, but it works. We want to upgrad someday but there's no urgency to it. The "envy" of a nicer place isn't as strong now that I no longer have drunks screaming below my window at 3 a.m. on a weeknight.

MMMWannaBe

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2015, 07:57:53 AM »
I hear what you are saying, but when people post pictures of their ostentatious house I just think about how much it is costing them and I am happy it is them and not me.  More house is just more cleaning, more overhead cost, and delayed retirement. 

My favorite thing to post on Facebook is a picture of the burned dinner I prepared (it happens) and ask if anybody would like to join us to eat.  It is a nice departure from the pictures of the beautifully arranged dinner platters people post on Facebook.

Sometimes I talk a little too much to people about their finances and I know that looks can be deceiving.  That keeps the green envy monster at bay.  You spend and I will save; 10 years from now we will see who is still working for the man and who has earned their freedom and is no longer a corporate drone.  Maybe then I will post my vacation pictures on Facebook (just kidding; not my style).

waltworks

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2015, 08:14:08 AM »
Ditch Facebook. Problem solved.

-W

Cpa Cat

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2015, 08:14:55 AM »
I know some people who built a giant $1.5M home at the height of the market. Of course, during the recession, they felt they were being crushed by the mortgage payments, taxes and utility bills on their 6000 sq ft dream house. So they sold it at a loss and bought a "modest" $500k house (the wife refused to go any lower). The median home price in our area is $155,000.

They moved in during the last week of pool season and the wife posted photos of them sunbathing, etc. A friend posted, "You moved?!?! What about your beautiful house?!?!" She replied, "Oh, we just wanted to upgrade to a house with a pool!"

You know what she didn't post? "Oh, well, it cost us $1,000,000 over the last ten years to keep that house and we ended up leaving with negative equity. Also, we fought about it constantly!"

Although... I do kind of wish I had a pool.

AlexK

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2015, 08:15:25 AM »
I suddenly have the urge to find a mansion for sale and take a selfie with the wife next to the sign and house and post to FB.

But seriously though don't be jealous. You could have a house like that too if you were willing to work for it and make it a priority. Same goes for FI and your friends.

meyla

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2015, 08:42:38 AM »
Could I take an alternative view to the rest of the posts? I don't have any social media accounts at all but that's because I don't really have any friends so there's not anyone for me to talk to.

If the situation he was posting about had nothing to do with money, would you be jealous and bitter towards it? He is posting about a life event that he wants to share with his friends and loved ones. He isn't necessarily looking for attention, but he does want his friend group to be involved with his life so he shares important events with you. If he were posting that he has gotten engaged and had a picture of him and his fiance at whatever location where he proposed, would that make you mad and jealous? I don't think so. Why is it bragging to tell people you care about what's going on in your life? Is it just the picture that bothers you? If he took the picture down, would that be better?

Again, I don't have facebook so maybe there is social media etiquette that I don't understand, but I thought the point was to keep in touch with people you care about and be involved in their day-to-day lives... If you don't want to know about his life, why be friends with him?

Numbers Man

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2015, 10:11:44 AM »
They are probably spending about 25% (a million dollar loan at 4% is less than $5k a month) of their approximate $300k salary for the house if you assume a 30 year loan and a minimal down payment. It's all relative, just deal with it.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2015, 10:27:40 AM »

I fully intend on one freezing winter day in 10 years posting a Facebook photo of myself in front my new, small, tropical beach home with the caption, "What?  Are you suckas seriously still working for a living?!  ...I told you all those SUVs, granite countertops, and Starbucks coffees weren't worth it."  :)
I love it!  Mind if I borrow it?

Cookie78

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2015, 10:55:45 AM »
I unfollow or unfriend excessively negative people, or people spamming their political or other agendas. But I enjoy seeing posts of people's achievements, whether or not they align with my own goals. I am happy for them, because they are my friends (or they wouldn't be on my facebook) and I don't view it as bragging. I view it as sharing their lives. Posts of babies and children's minor achievements get old, but maybe that's because I can't relate. I still don't see those posts as bragging, but as sharing in their excitement.

New house? Happy? Congrats.

FLBiker

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2015, 11:10:18 AM »
Of course, the easiest solution is just to get myself off Facebook all together!

Yep.  It's been maybe 4 years since I deleted my account.  Never miss it.

coachese

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Re: Dead horse: jealousy and humble-brag posts
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2015, 11:27:22 AM »
Of course, the easiest solution is just to get myself off Facebook all together!

Yep.  It's been maybe 4 years since I deleted my account.  Never miss it.

Main reason I don't FB much anymore. Many times it made me feel worse about my situation that necessary. Or angry. Or spiteful. Or jealous.....!