Author Topic: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances  (Read 25075 times)

Stupendous

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2015, 08:34:07 AM »
I'd personally move on. Not prioritizing student loans and having credit card debt is not a good sign. And having to live at home to afford an expensive hobby is not something a grown up adult does.

bogart

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2015, 09:22:29 AM »
Assorted thoughts (fellow horse person here):

Here are 3 of the main things that seem to motivate us: 
  • loving to compete -- like any sport
  • loving the relationship/team aspect of the sport, working with/training a particular horse over time
  • loving caring for horses and their environment/gear
 
Not mutually exclusive but my observation is that most of us are much more motivated by 1 or 2 of those items rather than equally by all 3.

Your GF wants to compete and improve.  What does improvement mean to her?  It matters (and is worth thinking about).  Given that she's taken on dressage, she might want to move "up through the ranks" and compete at successively higher levels, or do successively better.  She might "need" an expensive horse to do this (and as others have noted it's not really the "cost" of the horse in a purchase-price sense, it's everything that goes along with that), depending on what motivates her (see above) and at what level she wants to compete.  But there are other ways she can ride and improve, in measurable ways.

Here's a hypothetical:  let's assume your GF owns a lovely 8 y.o. warmblood (we'll call him Bob) and is currently showing successfully at 2nd level.  She works hard, and 2 years from now she is showing him successfully at 4th level and eyeing a move to Prix St. George.  Tragically one night Bob colics and dies.  Of course she is heartbroken.  But she still loves to ride and fortunately she had good insurance and has some funds available to buy a new horse.  Not a "replacement" for Bob, not emotionally, of course, but also not in terms of level of experience/training.  She's going to have to backtrack somewhat.  There are 2 really good prospects her trainer has recommended to her.  One (Joe) is Bob's full sibling, almost a carbon copy.  He's 8, and also showing second level -- so sort of a rewind.  The other (Harry) is Bob's half sibling, same age, same level.  But he's half thoroughbred and a very different sort of ride.  She figures it will take her at least 6 months and more likely a year to get used to Harry and start to move up through the levels, whereas she could hop on Joe tomorrow and be showing 4th level again -- presumably -- in 2 years.

What does she choose?  Joe will give her the easier "measurement" of her "improvement" (though either way she's repeating stuff, just as every marathon a marathon runner runs is in part a repetition of the last one), but I'd argue Harry will actually offer her more chance to "improve" (even if in ways that no one will be exactly able to quantify).

I've owned horses over the years, my last one died (colic -- and yes, I paid for surgery, OOP, and no, it didn't work) 4 years ago and I haven't replaced him.  I loved that horse.  But I needed a horse like I need a hole in my foot (or wallet).  Now I ride for free by borrowing friends' horses.  I've done this a lot (also as a teenager, when I could ride anything with 4 legs, broke or not.  I'm older and more sensible now, but I can still ride a ton of different types/levels of horses well.).  If you're a decent rider who shows up when you say you will, it's very easy to find free rides -- lots of people own horses they want ridden/trained but don't have the time to ride them, and when you're borrowing horses, you can really take your pick -- green, lame, crazy, or any combination of those 3 attributes.  I'm kidding -- partly.  I mostly go for lame.

That sounds horrid, but lots of lameness problems are actually fitness problems.  I'm not really riding lame horses.  I ride 2 -- a retired Intermediate event horse, and a draft/TB cross.  The retiree is bordering on lame (arthritis) and I have to be careful with him, but I'm pretty sure what I do with him isn't only improving his immediate well-being (when I ride him, starting gradually over time by getting him fit by walking up hills, he goes from lame to sound) but also extending his life span.  The draft/TB cross started out really, really short behind -- stifle problems -- and was himself basically semi-retired but now carries himself freely and forward with a nice soft topline and doing lovely training level/first level dressage (not much of a trot lengthening, at least not yet -- he's got the shoulders of a Clydesdale).  I'd argue that getting him sound and moving well has actually been more challenging than showing a nice warmblood (or TB) even if it doesn't come with the same flash and external recognition.

(I ride in the owners' saddles, or 2 old saddles I already own, buy a new cheap pair of tall boots about once every 2 years, and pay for gas to the barn.  I'd guess I'm spending $15/month to ride 4 times/week).

Dressage is something that all horses can benefit from (think Pilates for horses...), and there are plenty that aren't naturally good enough "movers" (as seen from the competitive dressage perspective) that anyone wants to fool with them. 

I know this place is "all about" RE and some of that's premised on the fact that when it comes to saving, time is your friend.  Use compounding, work hard young, save, and have the rest of your life to do what you want.  But there are things that don't lend themselves (nearly as) well to being done when you're older as when you're younger and I think that often gets glossed over in the RE excitement.  Some types of travel, particularly if you're otherwise inclined to bog yourself down with things like home ownership, a spouse, and kids; having kids, particularly for women; and lots of athletic endeavors. 

Particularly taking time (truly) away from riding does not, in my experience/observation, bode well for our continuing to do this, or do it well, as we age.  It's a silly example (because so extreme), but if you and your GF were lots younger and she were a (legitimately) aspirational Olympic gymnast, no one would dream of telling her she should "just work until she's 40 and then retire to pursue her gymnastic career."

OTOH even one month without owning a horse would save your GF $1K.  If she already owns a horse, that doesn't help much; I'm assuming she doesn't want to sell the one she has.  But it's certainly worth considering whether cutting back now (e.g. by borrowing rather than owning) is something she can do while still finding ways to enjoy the sport.  And it's not at all a lifetime commitment (to non-horse-ownership or whatever other downsizing route she considers).  Believe me, if she keeps even one toe in the horse world, she does not need to worry that people won't be keeping an eye out for horses she might want to buy, or encouraging her to reconsider jumping back in to horse ownership :) .  There's a lovely little off-the-track TB out where I ride who's the spitting image of the horse I lost and who's been bought there to be trained and sold and plenty of friends have suggested it's time for me to get back into horse ownership :).

GL.

DeltaBond

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2015, 10:07:45 AM »
I heard something that I thought was extremely wise when it comes to settling down with someone.  Choose someone who satisfies your needs, not just your wants.  A lot of us want to look at a situation's/person's potential instead of what they actually ARE.  If we could all know this much about someone financially before entering a relationship with them, life would be much easier, but I am going to side with the folks here who urge you to consider walking away from this.  There will be other pretty girls out there, I promise you.  The world is jam packed full of them.

I'll also second that if you convince her of dropping horses for you, there will be resentment. 

Lastly, I urge you to make a choice before you end up expecting a child - imagine how stressful THAT little hitch would be?  You're on here because you're considering making a change, so be careful.  Just sayin.... before you end up with a mini-horse-girl, as well.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 10:11:23 AM by DeltaBond »

TrulyStashin

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2015, 10:48:07 AM »
A lot of us want to look at a situation's/person's potential instead of what they actually ARE. 

If she does not grow one tiny bit from who she is right now, is she really the right choice in life partner for someone who values responsibility and frugality?

Proceed with great caution, make no commitments.

norabird

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2015, 11:03:43 AM »
As someone with very generous parents, I want to say that this isn't necessarily a red flag. Where the parents are stable, and where the relationship should be good, I think we shouldn't judge. It can but does not have to lead to entitlement, and it's not a sign of moral failing.

zoltani

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2015, 11:21:34 AM »
IDK about dating a horse girl. Isn't beastiality illegal in most states?

norabird

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2015, 11:47:20 AM »
A match made in mustache heaven!

czc118

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2015, 12:04:18 PM »
I love my girlfriend :) and sometimes I don't give her the credit she deserves.

waltworks

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2015, 12:04:55 PM »
Ok, based on some of the recent replies, OP should run as far away as possible.

-W

CommonCents

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2015, 01:00:58 PM »
Hi OP's girlfriend,

First, welcome.  :)  I'm pleased to say it only took me reading halfway through your opus to realize it was you (before you said so).  I'm also greatly amused at how your choose to start your post.  Well done.

I'm sorry to hear about the car crash - that sounds really unsettling. 

I'm relieved to learn you are actually frugal, because that gives me more comfort for your relationship working long term.  This: "My horse is the only thing I ask for in life. All other material items are insignificant" gives me back faith you can work through your issues.   It also sounds like from your post that you are not actually getting into dressage, which a lot of people noted here was really expensive.

Yes, absolutely you should move out so your brother can live with his new wife (is he not already??).  That all said, I still have some qualms about moving in with your parents.  This is a contentious topic here though, as generally Americans think you shouldn't live with parents post college and non-American tend to trend to the "it's ok" camp.  I'd suggest that if you are living with them to get your debt under control, that you try hard to pitch in non-monetarily (e.g. cook meals, do the laundry etc)  Part of my concern is that while I get you were severely depressed, I really question your mom's encouragement to getting an expensive horse when it sounds like you couldn't really afford one. 

In any event, to me the most positive sign is perhaps that OP shared the thread with you and you have taken random internet stranger responses well.  Communication is awesome and solves a lot of the world's problems.  I'd suggest talking through some of the questions I (and others) posed upthread, such as will you plan on kids, how would that change horse ownership, how would you feel if you get married and OP retires early while you keep working for your horse habit, etc.

pbkmaine

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2015, 01:23:34 PM »
This is why hearing both sides of a story is so important. I think many Mustachians have a hobby they are passionate about. Kudos to you for figuring out how to do it as inexpensively as possible. I hope you find stability in employment - that will help a lot. Keep communicating with BF and I have high hopes for the two of you.

DeltaBond

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2015, 05:42:09 AM »
Ok, based on some of the recent replies, OP should run as far away as possible.

-W

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to second this.  OP's girlfriend, I highly recommend therapy considering not only all you've gone through but the way you are justifying a lot of your decisions in making up for what you've gone through.  You're not that far off base, but you could definitely use some help growing emotionally.  Therapy is NOT more expensive than a horse (even one you're not taking to the vet, for some reason)  I wish you both luck in your future life lessons.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 06:03:06 AM by DeltaBond »

FIRE me

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2015, 01:27:47 AM »
Others seem to get divorced over the issue because the horse party does not make nearly enough to pay for their own sport hence requiring asset reallocation from the non-horse party.


To expect her to change is unreasonable. So either you need to change (and be willing to die as a penniless horse loving hippie), or else find another girlfriend.

DonkeyGirl

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2015, 11:24:52 PM »
Even at the cheaper end, responsible horse owners may feel the need to keep a horse for life, including during a long retirement, in order to be sure that it is not mistreated or sent for slaughter.  Breeding may be a way of offsetting costs e.g. in certain circumstances in Europe, it is highly unlikely to be so in the USA (very large oversupply of horses and a constant trade in them being exported to Canada and Mexico for meat).

Yep, this is where I'm at. I love my mare who will never be sound enough for riding again, and who besides the meat man wants to buy a lame horse that needs special care and expensive medications? Very, very few people. No horse comes with a crystal ball for health and longevity, and horse insurance is typically only available up to a certain age. While horses "can" be done cheaply, the reality is that things happen regardless of what we plan, especially to flighty and accident prone large prey animals. I think we should all follow our dreams since life is short and all that, but frugality and horses typically don't go hand in hand. Is it worth it to both parties to try and do both dreams halfway, or will that cause more regrets and resentment and possibly a split down the road?



waltworks

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2015, 07:22:37 AM »
Perhaps horse people can enlighten me here - how is it that they are so fragile/require so much medical attention? Are domesticated horses simply inbred/bred for purposes that make them generally unhealthy? I have a hard time imagining wild horses surviving more than 5 minutes on their own, based on what I see of the ones that are around people. But I know that entire herds of them exist and in fact there are overpopulation problems with them!

-W

Candace

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2015, 08:05:08 AM »
Ok, based on some of the recent replies, OP should run as far away as possible.

-W

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to second this.  OP's girlfriend, I highly recommend therapy considering not only all you've gone through but the way you are justifying a lot of your decisions in making up for what you've gone through.  You're not that far off base, but you could definitely use some help growing emotionally.  Therapy is NOT more expensive than a horse (even one you're not taking to the vet, for some reason)  I wish you both luck in your future life lessons.

Yes, sorry to be negative, but I do see a lot of justifying of expenses she can't really afford and may not be able to support on her own in the future, which would personally give me pause. *May* not be able to. Maybe she'll get a good-paying job and support the horse, tack, dressage, trailer etc. on her own steam. Then perhaps the OP can sort of compartmentalize the fact that her extra money would be going to that instead of to FI for the two of them.

It looks like aside from the horse, she is frugal, hardworking, and is certainly charming in writing. I'm sure the relationship is 80% fantastic. When things are so wonderful, we get punch drunk in love and gloss over things that jump out at others who are not in the relationship. But that feeling wears off, and things that are problems start to take their toll.

Given those things, OP should decide if he can really be happy with supporting her in the horse lifestyle if they get married or live together. Personally, I would find it difficult. Put aside my dream of doing what I want in the world so that my other half got to use my funds to do what they wanted to, and on top of that, for that activity to be something we wouldn't be doing together? Not something I want to do.

And if I got to stop working, but my beloved other half was still working full time and then spending several hours a week doing something I didn't want to join in on, that would cause problems too. Personally, I would only get married to someone if that person was someone I wanted to spend a lot of time with. Then if I didn't get to spend that time because he had other priorities, I would feel second-best.

I'm writing this from the perspective of having accepted that I'm going to provide FI for both me and my boyfriend. I had already come most of the way to FI before we met a year ago, and expect I'll do the rest of it. (He doesn't spend on himself but has few assets.) I am happy to share so that we can have a life together doing what we want in the world. However, if he wanted to keep working full-time forever to support an expensive hobby I wasn't into as well, that would be a big problem for me. It would be an even bigger problem if he thought I should support this hobby with funds I set aside with other plans in mind.

Aside from the money, I'm with him because I want us to spend much of our time together. Not all of it, but a good amount. I don't want to be begging for time together because he's too busy between work and a hobby. That would be true regardless of who was supporting the hobby.

OP and girlfriend, I would suggest enjoying the hell out of your relationship as it stands, and take some time to do so. This seems to be a time of transition for both of you, especially the young lady. It sounds like things are going great. Why not just enjoy what you have now and let time show you both what it shows you? You never know what changes time will bring. You are young. You're figuring it out. There's no hurry. Hugs to both of you and best of luck. I hope to hear what happens in a couple of years.

Scandium

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2015, 12:02:01 PM »
I think it's prophetic that on my phone the title of this thread shows up as "dating a horse"..

And I knew horses were expensive, but dayum! Here I was agonizing over spending $200 on upgrades for my computer" hobby", the first in 3 years. Maybe I'm more mustachian than I think..

DonkeyGirl

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2015, 02:56:17 PM »
J Mo - In my opinion (just my opinion, so I apologize in advance for an offense that may be incurred), a lame horse should be put down. Imagine being in constant pain your entire life, unable to frolic about outside as nature intended? A horse is too expensive to have as a lawn ornament.

Actually, she is still pasture sound, just not able to be ridden. If she was in pain and didn't have so much joie de vivre I would absolutely put her down. That day is coming, I know. She still runs and bucks in her pasture and pesters her friends and steals their food and begs for hand walks in the woods. I constantly pester my vet and farrier with questions about her comfort level, but they both tell me she's doing well, which is what I am seeing as well.

DonkeyGirl

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2015, 04:33:27 PM »
Perhaps horse people can enlighten me here - how is it that they are so fragile/require so much medical attention? Are domesticated horses simply inbred/bred for purposes that make them generally unhealthy? I have a hard time imagining wild horses surviving more than 5 minutes on their own, based on what I see of the ones that are around people. But I know that entire herds of them exist and in fact there are overpopulation problems with them!

The thoroughbred racing industry has certainly been under fire in the past few years for breeding horses that occasionally break down on the track and need to be humanely euthanized, often right on the track. What a horrifying spectacle.

Horses have evolved with an enormous fight-or-flight response that they needed to survive in the wild. Many horses will spook at the tiniest noise or motion because their primal instinct is telling them the noise is a mountain lion coming to get them, not a plastic grocery bag flapping in the breeze. That instinct can cause them to run through fences or freak out in small spaces like stalls or trailers. I suppose wild horses could have fewer injuries from it because they have more open space to freak out in.

And some horses just seem more accident prone than others. There was one horse I knew that seemed to have a new injury every other week. She sadly broke her leg by stepping in a grain bucket on the floor in her stall and apparently tripping. The vet patched her up and put her on stall rest, but her owner was into barrel racing and sold her while she was still on the mend. I guess it didn't heal well, since I've seen her on Craigslist several times listed as a light riding horse.

waltworks

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2015, 05:47:42 PM »
That is interesting. So from the horses' point of view, arguably horse people are the worst thing that ever happened to them?

It sounds like the conditions they live in with humans (enclosed/in small spaces, lots of blind corners and unexpected obstacles, indoors a lot, etc) are very, very far from what they would generally prefer/where they'd be happiest and healthiest. Same with a lot of purebred dogs and other animals, I suppose. I cringe when I see German shepherds that can hardly walk.

-W

RetiredAt63

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2015, 07:45:54 AM »
Just as an aside, there are lots of hobbies that can be (note I said "can be" not 'are) just as consuming in time and money.  Serious golfers come to mind.  Lots of money (new clubs/irons/shoes/etc.), serious dues (no cheap course green fees for them, and clubs usually have minimum bar/meal tabs, so added expense), and time - 3-5 hours (or more, 19th tee), in the best weather.  When they are at the golf course they are not with their family, not gardening, hiking, etc.   Holiday (long) weekends = tournaments, not family time.  And even if some or all of the family plays golf, the serious golfer is not fun to play with unless the others are at the same level of competency.

Fuzz

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #71 on: June 16, 2015, 07:48:02 AM »
Riding a trail horse that grazes in the pasture, or mucking stalls for a few hours of riding time are pretty different activities from $1000+ dressage weekends. You described her horse as the Ferrari of horses. Suggesting that she go from Daddy (or Mommy) paying for a Ferrari to mucking stalls and access to a beater truck once in a while seems like a non-starter. You're asking her to jump off the top of the hedonic treadmill and get on back at the bottom. She already has the horse, you only have the idea of FIRE. Seems like FIRE is going to give here. Maybe that's OK.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #72 on: June 16, 2015, 08:19:52 AM »
Just as an aside, there are lots of hobbies that can be (note I said "can be" not 'are) just as consuming in time and money.  Serious golfers come to mind.  Lots of money (new clubs/irons/shoes/etc.), serious dues (no cheap course green fees for them, and clubs usually have minimum bar/meal tabs, so added expense), and time - 3-5 hours (or more, 19th tee), in the best weather.  When they are at the golf course they are not with their family, not gardening, hiking, etc.   Holiday (long) weekends = tournaments, not family time.  And even if some or all of the family plays golf, the serious golfer is not fun to play with unless the others are at the same level of competency.

Yup. True.

I have a number of those hobbies. Not so much the $$ cost, but the time cost of them is pretty huge.

I wouldn't bother trying to have a relationship with someone who didn't share a passion for my main hobbies. I've done that in the past and it's a constant battle between the SO and the passionate hobby. As I told one GF - "I've dedicated 20yrs+ to X and I've known you for 18 months. If you make me choose I'm not giving up X." Needless to say we are no longer involved. ;)

The world is full of amazing people. One of the things I learned through my younger years is not to try and fit a round peg in a square hole. Lady Z may be super fantastic, but if she's not easily compatible with my life there is another Lady W that is both super fantastic and shares my passions. You just need to be out there and available to meet her.

With your hormones firing on all cylinders it's easy to get myopic and feel like Lady Z is the only possible solution to your romantic needs, but that's crazy talk.

DeltaBond

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #73 on: June 16, 2015, 09:32:26 AM »
Vikb, a friend of mine told me after I divorced someone who did not share the same FIRE interest as I had, that its very important to share a little bit of a hobby with a significant other, if not all the hobbies.  Or rather, the passions and goals need to seriously overlap.  It was the best advice I've ever listened to.

zinethstache

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #74 on: June 16, 2015, 10:57:58 AM »
Horse person married to a non horse person here. I have a unique story to inspire OP and his GF if they are willing to work hard.

I was absolutely over the top bonkers horse crazy as a kid. I advise all parents to NOT get their kids into horses if the money isn't there. My parents were silly and bought me this older grade mare and she pretty much sucked. I wanted so much more. I had a paper route, collected pop cans and made stuff to sell to support her. I turned to working with horses for pay as a teenager, got that yuck mare sold. Life went on and I got married. We were not college educated so our pay was meager, but we were not destitute and we both worked hard. I somehow finagled DH into letting me buy a horse for my "alone" hobby, he picked martial arts. I loved that horse I bought, he was young. I got a side gig that fully paid for him. But eventually he and I started competing and as we progressed I worked harder to earn more. It snowballed into me going to college (on the company's dime), running my own PC business AND cleaning an office each weekend. A breeder took note of me and my determination and she gave me an ever better bred horse which I could step up to breed shows with. The first horse sold for enough to be a down payment on our first house. My horse habit did NOT put us into debt, if anything it fed my fire to increase my earnings in a far more tangible way than dreaming of FI ever could, but I like to work. So now fast foward many, many years to today. Even with owning professionally trained show horses I was able to earn enough to have my cake and eat it too. It did not come for free. I consistently worked 80+ hours a week plus rode, travelled and competed. Today I am just recovering from spinal fusion, my back ruptured (not directly from riding) and the rupture was so massive it took three surgeries to take care of. I also ruined my shoulders - mobile vending weekends will do that. They are also fixed now. So I enjoyed my run with horses thoroughly, I would never take it all back. The boon of working with a young horse who you raise and train and show and succeed with is something rare and wonderful and I had all that. I won lots of money, prizes etc. At every show I was there vending my products that I made to pay for the horse. So you see horses can provide good even though they are a money pit.

I am now officially FI as of January, only 3 years after selling my last show horse. I was able to save 30-50% while competing because I ran 2 side businesses and with my degree (14 years in the making) my main income rose to be a very good salary, and it still is today. I also still run both side businesses on a very small scale, trickling them along as I would like to continue them after RE.

The cost was my body having major, major injuries. But I am pretty well patched up now, as well as I can be. I will no longer be able to live life like I did in my 30s and 40s. I am now 47 and have a 2 year exit plan in place for RE.

Get this, DH RE'ed before the show horse was sold, that's what a crazy zealous working nut I was! He had this horrible job with an even worse boss and I convinced him to go on sabbatical, then we got him busy with projects so he could just stay puttering at home. The horse got sold in the summer of 2012. We had created a business plan to buy rentals and in that plan a horse was just not going to be sustainable. The horse was an older horse and he needed to go be a beginner's show horse, I'd basically used him up and if I were to continue showing I needed to invest in a step up young horse (and thank god we didn't buy me a young prospect, my back ruptured June 2013). We sold him in July 2012, and bought rental #1 that December. Yes we had enough clever money options available to us to buy a duplex that soon after selling the money pit:) We have 3 multi unit properties today.

It is so much less stressful to NOT have the committment of an equine friend and all the trappings that go along with one. I am well known in my area for my riding and competing and once my back totally heals up I have lots of really nice show horses I can go ride any time I need a fix. My mom and aunt both have property and horses, not horses I am interested in mind you, but I could certainly go and hang out at their barn, perhaps coach them on their old steeds. Any horse can stand for some flexing and bending, even old trail horses.

So, I am going to take a different approach and say I wish you two the best of luck and I hope you work very hard for what you want. If you play your cards right it will all work out and you can still hit FI down the road sometime:)

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #75 on: June 18, 2015, 03:06:06 PM »
Aye, it isn't about not spending money.  It's about being aware of the spending you are doing, and not being stupid about it.

And that awareness is a journey, not a destination.

The classic example for me is MMM and beer.  He's spent more on beer in the past 12 months then I've spent in my whole lifetime, because I don't pay for beer (though I do drink it when it's free).  But that doesn't make buying beer anti-frugal to me, just because I don't see a need to spend money on it.

The difference between valuing frugality, badassity, etc, and consumerism, is that we here would advocate buying the beer in bulk, or better yet, figuring out a way to make it yourself.  Never mind that a single unit at the convenience store is faster to acquire, it costs literally nine times as much as the pallet of 30 packs, and close to 50 times as much as better brew you make yourself.

Nothing wrong with a hobby.  It is the nature of the pursuit of the hobby that defines the character.

Nothing wrong with the actual current state of the finances, it is the nature of the pursuit of a solution that defines the character.

Plan A for me was always to marry a rich girl.  A decent plan B would be a passionate girl.

StockBeard

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #76 on: June 18, 2015, 04:23:28 PM »
This is what my wife told me about my (slightly expensive, but nowhere close to horses) hobby:
"Not only do you spend an insane amount of time on it - instead of spending time with me - , you're also spending money on it. This is not an acceptable situation for me".

The agreement with my wife ended up being that my hobby needed to be self sustained financially, which I think is something MMM mentioned a few times: your passion/hobbies can end up generating side income if you think about it.

After that discussion, I turned my hobby into a money-generating side gig over the course of a year.
Try to find ways to make money out of the hobby. She could teach horse riding on the side? Blog about it? I don't know. Something has to exist. Spending money on a hobby is just  like being on the wrong side of the fence, to me.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Dating a Horse Girl and her Finances
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2015, 01:17:28 PM »
Kaeneuksi,

So glad you joined this thread and put your two cents in! (Your $450/mo, etc.)  You seem to be responding to his concerns with action as well as words, which is a good sign, while finding ways still do achieve your own goals (my horse! shows later, when I can afford them).

As someone who has seen horses done in relatively thrifty manner (see prior post) while the horse lover grows over time, I do feel that there is middle ground here, and that you are probably in it.  Kudos to you for taking the thrifty actions that you have, for sticking with the adventure, and for the bold move of cantering into BF's Club of Frugalistas.  Good luck with the career growth, finances, horse, and cute boy.

OP, it appears to me that you basically asked for MMM members' opinions on which side to believe among the horse forum participants:  No, it's hopeless, her horse participation is the financial kiss of death...or hey, if she handles it right, it might be okay as long as she pays her own way.  So here's one opinion:  There's hope if she pays her own way. 

Here are my reasons and thoughts, for what they're worth.
1. She is taking action, described above.
2. You're both young-ish; if you're both moving in the right direction, you have a shot.
3. Sure, you won't hit FI as fast as if you both contributed wholeheartedly to only your goal.
4. Yes, there's a risk her plans go awry and you work longer than you planned.  But it might work far better than you anticipate too. 
5. This is not your only chance at love.  If you want to find someone to fit your mold exactly, leave now. 
6. You're both growing.  Here are the upsides if you grow together:
a. You will know each other by testing your limits, and accommodating each other's concerns.  You're both already in the midst of doing this.
b. You are both learning to express your desires, and then find a way to meet the deepest needs each has.  If you keep on this path, there is a chance of both being hugely fulfilled.

In other words, OP:  I didn't hear you ask if you should marry her, I heard you ask if you should cut this off because it would destroy your dreams.  No.  You should pursue this. 

She may well be, as she appears, perfectly capable of and committed to paying for her own - just as half the horse forums said.  She's not in the group that had Daddy pay sticker price at the dealer for a Ferrari, she got her hands dirty doing the work and got a deal because people in the game like her; it's a good sign. 

Time will pass, there are only so many chances to find a great person.  If you need one who fits your FI script exactly, bite the bullet and say goodbye.  You asked instead if it's hopeless. It's not.  Hang in there.  And you work on your growth as much as she works on hers, eh? 

For example, one poster mentioned that, actually, therapy is cheaper than horses.  Probably true.  Most of us can use some of it.  How about kicking in for a few sessions for her on whatever topic she wants, a few for you on why FI is so meaningful, and few of couples counseling?  Might be a lot cheaper than future horse costs!