Author Topic: Damn cat  (Read 18776 times)

starguru

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Damn cat
« on: January 01, 2016, 05:09:19 PM »
After ten years, my perfectly well-behaved cat started peeing in our living room (which is next to the laundry, where the litter box is).  He is targeting one specific corner.   

People have suggested he might be sick, but he is acting normal, sometimes he uses the litter box for pee, and he always hits the same corner when he doesn't.  If he were sick I would expect him to go wherever he is when it's time, not go to the southwest corner of the living room every time....

We keep the litter box clean.  We tried changing the litter brand but that might have made things worse; there has been no pee in the litter since the change.

I am about to buy baby gates to cordon off that room....

iris lily

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2016, 05:10:44 PM »
Urinary blocks or inflammations are common in cats, and are a common cause of this. Don't assume it's behavioral.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2016, 05:11:19 PM »
Urinary blocks or inflammations are common in cats, and are a common cause of this. Don't assume it's behavioral.

Would he target one area if this was the case?

Another Reader

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2016, 05:13:02 PM »
Yes.  In your shoes, I would take the cat to the vet.  Urinary tract issues are not uncommon in older male cats.

iris lily

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2016, 05:14:13 PM »
Urinary blocks or inflammations are common in cats, and are a common cause of this. Don't assume it's behavioral.

Would he target one area if this was the case?

Yes, the last cat peeing incident at our house very much targeted a particular rug.

She went on antibiotics and it cleared up. I do so hope it's that simple for you, this is a complex , nasty, and maddening problem with cats.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2016, 05:18:24 PM »
I wonder if i can get some antibiotics without actually going to the vet....

iris lily

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2016, 05:24:39 PM »
I wonder if i can get some antibiotics without actually going to the vet....
No.

Vet will likely want a urine sample looking for good traces. Don't cheap out on your cat. It's a process of elimination to figure out what's wrong.

Another Reader

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2016, 05:25:00 PM »
In older male cats, it might not be an infection.  He could have crystals or the beginning of a blockage.  Try switching him to wet food only and offering fresh water several times a day.  Increasing water intake can sometimes help.  Did you change the food recently?  That could have aggravated the problem.

Ignoring bladder issues can lead to kidney failure, which is progressive and often fatal.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2016, 05:26:10 PM »
In older male cats, it might not be an infection.  He could have crystals or the beginning of a blockage.  Try switching him to wet food only and offering fresh water several times a day.  Increasing water intake can sometimes help.  Did you change the food recently?  That could have aggravated the problem.

Ignoring bladder issues can lead to kidney failure, which is progressive and often fatal.

He always has fresh water.  Have not changed the food.  He gets wet food twice a day and always has dry food available. 

JLee

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2016, 05:26:25 PM »
Have there been any environmental changes? New pets, new people?

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 05:26:53 PM »
I wonder if i can get some antibiotics without actually going to the vet....
No.

Vet will likely want a urine sample looking for good traces. Don't cheap out on your cat. It's a process of elimination to figure out what's wrong.

Heh, last time I didn't "cheap out" on a cat I spent 2k and got a dead cat in return.   

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2016, 05:27:55 PM »
Have there been any environmental changes? New pets, new people?

My mother visited a few weeks ago for a week, but she has visited many times without issue.  No new pets. 

Another Reader

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2016, 05:30:43 PM »
Try feeding wet food only.  Cats often do not consume adequate amounts of water when they eat kibble.  The urine can be very concentrated.

The important thing is to get a diagnosis.  You want to prevent kidney damage/failure.  How are his teeth?  Dental issues often cause kidney problems, as the bacteria in the mouth can get in the bloodstream and travel to the kidneys.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2016, 05:38:52 PM »
Yeah.  Fuck.  Time for the vet.  There goes another few grand.

pbkmaine

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 05:58:34 PM »
We had this problem with our male cat after we moved. It wasn't just in one place. It was a lot of inappropriate peeing. He got a full physical workup and then the vet put him on Prozac. We figured he was anxious about having moved. He was a zombie for 6 weeks, but then we tapered him off and he was fine. We moved again, same problem, but this time only in one spot. 6 weeks of Prozac, zombie again, then tapered again and he was fine. This cat does not deal well with change.

Shinplaster

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2016, 07:19:22 PM »
My Mom adopted a cat years ago with a urinary tract infection that had been ignored.   The cat would pee right beside the box, not in it.  The vet explained that since it hurt to pee, the cat associates the box with the pain.  It knows it should use the box, it wants to, but it doesn't want the pain.  If the infection goes on long enough, it can be very hard to persuade the cat to use the box again.  It took 2 months to solve this with my Mom's cat, so I wouldn't delay getting it attended to.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2016, 07:33:32 AM »
When my male cat did this he had a urinary blockage (expensive).  The sooner the vet sees the cat the better for the cat and your wallet.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2016, 03:01:43 PM »
Just got back from the vet.  This vet is great, and by that I mean reasonably priced.  I scheduled a teeth cleaning, and while the cat is under, they will take the urine sample, all for well under $400.  In the past other vets had quoted me 800 just to clean the teeth. 

The urine sample should allow us to determine any medical problem that might be causing the unwanted peeing.  Set for Wednesday. 

startingsmall

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2016, 03:33:01 PM »
Just got back from the vet.  This vet is great, and by that I mean reasonably priced.  I scheduled a teeth cleaning, and while the cat is under, they will take the urine sample, all for well under $400.  In the past other vets had quoted me 800 just to clean the teeth. 

The urine sample should allow us to determine any medical problem that might be causing the unwanted peeing.  Set for Wednesday.

EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS TO CLEAN TEETH?!?!

Wow. Now I see why people on here complain about vet costs. Obviously a lot of this has to do with cost of living, but in my LCOL area we only charge $175 for a dental cleaning (including pre-anesthetic bloodwork, IV catheter, monitoring, etc). Obviously, it's priced as a loss leader to get people in the door, but I can see why people would balk at $800. Wow.

Another Reader

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2016, 03:44:36 PM »
I would not put a cat under anesthesia until I knew whether the kidneys were ok and I had treated the cat for any infection.  My vet does a senior blood panel, including a urinalysis, before doing dental work.  It's a necessary up front investment for the cat's health and your wallet.  An infection should delay surgery.  I would call the vet back and discuss this.

That is a good price for dental work, though.  However, I think I will fly my cats to startingsmall's LCOL area vet in the future!  It would be a lot cheaper than my vet!

Nudelkopf

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2016, 05:46:03 PM »
Just got back from the vet.  This vet is great, and by that I mean reasonably priced.  I scheduled a teeth cleaning, and while the cat is under, they will take the urine sample, all for well under $400.  In the past other vets had quoted me 800 just to clean the teeth. 

The urine sample should allow us to determine any medical problem that might be causing the unwanted peeing.  Set for Wednesday.
I clearly never looked after my cats enough.. Our family has never taken our cats to the dentist :-/

albireo13

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2016, 06:10:41 PM »
A bag and a bridge will cure this

[MOD NOTE:  rule #1.  Manners, please.]
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 01:02:40 PM by FrugalToque »

JLee

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2016, 06:21:33 PM »
A bag and a bridge will cure this

................

Kris

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2016, 06:23:43 PM »
A bag and a bridge will cure this

This is completely inappropriate.  What in the world made you think to write something so useless and offensive?

Another Reader

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2016, 06:36:22 PM »
And a couple of years in state prison for felony animal cruelty will cure THAT.  We have a serial cat killer here in San Jose that will likely be doing that.  More, if the people that lost their family pets and are attending all the hearings have their way.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2016, 06:36:55 PM »
A bag and a bridge will cure this

This is completely inappropriate.  What in the world made you think to write something so useless and offensive?

Ha, I almost peed my pantaloons when I read it.  As the OP, I'm not offended.  I'm assuming it was meant light-heartedly.

Kris

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2016, 06:58:32 PM »
A bag and a bridge will cure this

This is completely inappropriate.  What in the world made you think to write something so useless and offensive?

Ha, I almost peed my pantaloons when I read it.  As the OP, I'm not offended.  I'm assuming it was meant light-heartedly.

I'd like to think you're right, but somehow, I doubt it.

Prepube

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2016, 12:24:35 AM »
A bag and a bridge will cure this

This is completely inappropriate.  What in the world made you think to write something so useless and offensive?

Ha, I almost peed my pantaloons when I read it.  As the OP, I'm not offended.  I'm assuming it was meant light-heartedly.

I snorted when I read this, too.  I love my cats (almost) as much as I love my dogs, but i have occasionally wished them an untimely death when they are sharpening claws on furniture or, as recently happened, sinking said claws into a dog's eye, or using my stomach as a launchpad for the back of the couch.

Cressida

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2016, 01:12:05 AM »
In my experience, cats go outside the box because they goddamn well feel like it. I've experienced this multiple times and the cat has always eventually stopped for reasons outside my ken.

I would go out and buy some puppy training pads and put them down where the cat has started going. When the cat goes, change the pad. The cat will probably eventually knock it off. I can't read their minds, but this has been my experience.

startingsmall

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2016, 07:07:10 AM »
A bag and a bridge will cure this

This is completely inappropriate.  What in the world made you think to write something so useless and offensive?

Ha, I almost peed my pantaloons when I read it.  As the OP, I'm not offended.  I'm assuming it was meant light-heartedly.

I snorted when I read this, too.  I love my cats (almost) as much as I love my dogs, but i have occasionally wished them an untimely death when they are sharpening claws on furniture or, as recently happened, sinking said claws into a dog's eye, or using my stomach as a launchpad for the back of the couch.

I've always been a dog person. I'm probably the only veterinarian who has never owned a cat... they're okay to work on (though I'd prefer dogs any day!), but I've never wanted one of my own. Well, someone dumped a cat at my husband's church and we're suckers, so we now have our first cat. I have to admit that I DO kind of like her (my friends have pointed out that I post almost as many pictures of the cat as my kid on Facebook these days, and I spent $900 to treat her after she ingested a dose of my dog's pain meds), but it's definitely a love/hate relationship. I almost always refer to her as Freaking Maryanne, because any story about her involves some sort of hijinks/disaster. I want to kill her on a daily basis... but then she purrs and I melt.

Cats are absolute jerks, but for some reason we like them anyway. It makes no sense.

Here's Freaking Maryanne, caught in the act of climbing our Christmas tree.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2016, 07:21:36 AM »
In my experience, cats go outside the box because they goddamn well feel like it. I've experienced this multiple times and the cat has always eventually stopped for reasons outside my ken.

I would go out and buy some puppy training pads and put them down where the cat has started going. When the cat goes, change the pad. The cat will probably eventually knock it off. I can't read their minds, but this has been my experience.

Yeah, the vet said it could be behavioral or medical.  Medical is easier to fix.  If it's behavioral, we're screwed. 

Puppy training pads is a good idea!  Thanx

startingsmall

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2016, 08:22:02 AM »
In my experience, cats go outside the box because they goddamn well feel like it. I've experienced this multiple times and the cat has always eventually stopped for reasons outside my ken.

I would go out and buy some puppy training pads and put them down where the cat has started going. When the cat goes, change the pad. The cat will probably eventually knock it off. I can't read their minds, but this has been my experience.

Yeah, the vet said it could be behavioral or medical.  Medical is easier to fix.  If it's behavioral, we're screwed. 

Puppy training pads is a good idea!  Thanx

You're definitely not 'screwed' with behavioral. I just wrote a continuing education course for veterinarians on managing inappropriate elimination... it's not easy, but it can be done. Yes, medical causes are typically easier to fix.

kittenwhiskers

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2016, 08:45:24 PM »
That happened to me, then we found out he had diabetes. Very expensive insulin since cats don't do as well on the kind of insulin humans and dogs use. Still, I wouldn't just put him down. He lasted a good 5-6 years after that with the great care I gave him.

Spondulix

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2016, 02:12:12 AM »
If it is urinary, the vet will try to talk you into switching to prescription food which is f'ing expensive. I tried a number only to find that my 4 cats all like a cheap brand (that's widely available) - Purina Pro Plan Urinary Formula (dry and wet). It's been at least a couple years since we had a urinary problem (knock on wood)

There's drops you can buy that do give temporary relief, too. If it's an infection, it won't make it go away, but it might give enough relief that they'll quit peeing all over.


startingsmall

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2016, 07:31:39 AM »
If it is urinary, the vet will try to talk you into switching to prescription food which is f'ing expensive. I tried a number only to find that my 4 cats all like a cheap brand (that's widely available) - Purina Pro Plan Urinary Formula (dry and wet). It's been at least a couple years since we had a urinary problem (knock on wood)

There's drops you can buy that do give temporary relief, too. If it's an infection, it won't make it go away, but it might give enough relief that they'll quit peeing all over.

Actually, most cats with feline lower urinary tract disease (assuming no complicating issues like diabetes, kidney insufficiency, etc) will benefit most from a transition to canned food (ANY canned food, not necessarily a urinary diet) and other measures to increase water intake. The second most helpful measure in managing feline lower urinary tract disease is stress/anxiety reduction. There are cats who need the RX diets, but those cats are in the minority.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 07:45:01 AM by startingsmall »

MandalayVA

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2016, 07:37:57 AM »
We had to have a male cat put down due to a massive urinary blockage last month.  Please get yours checked out!

Kris

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2016, 08:55:51 AM »
If it is urinary, the vet will try to talk you into switching to prescription food which is f'ing expensive. I tried a number only to find that my 4 cats all like a cheap brand (that's widely available) - Purina Pro Plan Urinary Formula (dry and wet). It's been at least a couple years since we had a urinary problem (knock on wood)

There's drops you can buy that do give temporary relief, too. If it's an infection, it won't make it go away, but it might give enough relief that they'll quit peeing all over.

Wow, thank you for this! We have a cat who has had persistent problems, and it's great to know there's cheaper food that works!

MandyM

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2016, 10:03:25 AM »
In my experience, cats go outside the box because they goddamn well feel like it. I've experienced this multiple times and the cat has always eventually stopped for reasons outside my ken.

I would go out and buy some puppy training pads and put them down where the cat has started going. When the cat goes, change the pad. The cat will probably eventually knock it off. I can't read their minds, but this has been my experience.

Yeah, the vet said it could be behavioral or medical.  Medical is easier to fix.  If it's behavioral, we're screwed. 

Puppy training pads is a good idea!  Thanx

You're definitely not 'screwed' with behavioral. I just wrote a continuing education course for veterinarians on managing inappropriate elimination... it's not easy, but it can be done. Yes, medical causes are typically easier to fix.

+1

Although, my money is on UTI. I've worked with an animal rescue group for 6 years and without hard data, I would guess that 80-90% of the urinating outside the litter cases were UTI and solved with antibiotics.

Startingsmall - any chance you would share your CE materials with a lovely little rescue group?

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2016, 10:17:06 AM »
Put it to sleep. /thread

solon

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2016, 10:30:37 AM »
This thread ought to be required reading for anyone considering getting a pet.

Do you really want to deal with the work, worry, and expense? And still have people look down their elitist noses at you because you don't treat your animal the way they would treat their animal?

People get pets for "comfort", but this is the exact opposite of comfort.

Mr. Green

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2016, 10:57:41 AM »
It's not always urinary. We just went through a period with our 10 year old cat where he went on special food that helps treat UTIs but it kept recurring. Ultimately, we set up a webcam and caught him doing it just before he would get fed by the automatic feeder. The consistent pattern ruled out a physical health problem. Turns out he just became an asshole in his old age. He takes a dose of prozac (treats anxiety) once as day now and everything is back to normal. It's a $20/month fix for the rest of the cat's life but I'm attached and willing to pay that as opposed to killing him.

startingsmall

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2016, 11:12:52 AM »
In my experience, cats go outside the box because they goddamn well feel like it. I've experienced this multiple times and the cat has always eventually stopped for reasons outside my ken.

I would go out and buy some puppy training pads and put them down where the cat has started going. When the cat goes, change the pad. The cat will probably eventually knock it off. I can't read their minds, but this has been my experience.

Yeah, the vet said it could be behavioral or medical.  Medical is easier to fix.  If it's behavioral, we're screwed. 

Puppy training pads is a good idea!  Thanx

You're definitely not 'screwed' with behavioral. I just wrote a continuing education course for veterinarians on managing inappropriate elimination... it's not easy, but it can be done. Yes, medical causes are typically easier to fix.

+1

Although, my money is on UTI. I've worked with an animal rescue group for 6 years and without hard data, I would guess that 80-90% of the urinating outside the litter cases were UTI and solved with antibiotics.

Startingsmall - any chance you would share your CE materials with a lovely little rescue group?

I can't at this point (non-disclosure agreement, etc.), but once the company posts the materials on their website I will send you a link!

I can say this: "In one retrospective study, 60% of cats presenting for inappropriate elimination had a history of FLUTD [8]."  (FLUTD = feline lower urinary tract disease... infections, sterile inflammation, etc)  Infections are not a common cause of FLUTD and it's not something that's typically a quick fix with antibiotics (more about lifestyle mgmt - increasing fluid intake, decreasing stress, etc), but it is true that many cases of inappropriate elimination have a medical component.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2016, 03:10:10 PM »
Just got the cat back from the vet.  He had teeth cleaned and a urine analysis.  His urine ph is out of whack, and he also has a lit amount of "crystals" in his urine.  We had to get the expensive special food to feed him.  Vet says we need to start brushing his teeth or in a few years he will need some removed. 

A few days ago we took the top off the litter box when we changed the litter (a second time, for a second type of litter, this time unscented), and he has been much better. 

pk_aeryn

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2016, 02:03:41 PM »
Sorry to hear about the health issue.  It sounds like you're on the right track to fixing it but I'd also recommend putting another litter box right over the spot he likes to pee.  That way at least it's in the box versus your home.  I know it might be in a visible spot but hopefully it's only temporary until he feels better.

Cassie

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2016, 03:51:54 PM »
So glad you figured out the problem. My past experience has been that it is usually medical.  Vets are expensive as I know from personal experience but if you get a pet you have to be prepared for it. It does suck though:))

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2016, 06:33:25 PM »
Uggggg it's started up again.  We have been sticking to his diet and cleaning the litter every day. 

We could put a litter box in the area, but it's the dining room so that is less than ideal.  Would it be worthwhile to block his access to that room?   

MandyM

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2016, 06:19:16 AM »
Uggggg it's started up again.  We have been sticking to his diet and cleaning the litter every day. 

We could put a litter box in the area, but it's the dining room so that is less than ideal.  Would it be worthwhile to block his access to that room?

I would go a step further and confine the cat to one room for a while (if possible).

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2016, 06:38:15 AM »
Uggggg it's started up again.  We have been sticking to his diet and cleaning the litter every day. 

We could put a litter box in the area, but it's the dining room so that is less than ideal.  Would it be worthwhile to block his access to that room?

I would go a step further and confine the cat to one room for a while (if possible).

He goes nuts if he is locked in a room and will start scratching at the door to the point that he starts pulling wood off the door. 

What's so confusing about this is that he is using the litter box.  We are cleaning it twice a day and most times it is clear he has been using it.  Its just every 2 days or so there is a puddle in the dining room.

Mr. Green

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2016, 06:50:57 AM »
I would refer you to me earlier post. Sometimes it's anxiety. We dealt with this issue for 18 months. It would recur and then right as we were on the brink of having him put to sleep it would go away. Do you have a laptop with a webcam you could set up in the room that looks at that spot? You can download free software that will take pictures using motion detection. See if you can find a pattern for the timing of when he does this. If there's a pattern it's highly unlikely you have a health issue like a standard UTI. He may need an anti-anxiety medication.

starguru

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Re: Damn cat
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2016, 07:24:50 AM »
I would refer you to me earlier post. Sometimes it's anxiety. We dealt with this issue for 18 months. It would recur and then right as we were on the brink of having him put to sleep it would go away. Do you have a laptop with a webcam you could set up in the room that looks at that spot? You can download free software that will take pictures using motion detection. See if you can find a pattern for the timing of when he does this. If there's a pattern it's highly unlikely you have a health issue like a standard UTI. He may need an anti-anxiety medication.

Ahh.  Sorry I missed your earlier post.  Hmm its an idea -- not sure what the pattern would be with him though -- there is no automatic feeder in our house.  How are you getting the prozac?