Author Topic: Savings/debt payoff plan.  (Read 4516 times)

S0VERE1GN

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Savings/debt payoff plan.
« on: May 08, 2014, 12:46:13 PM »
Quick Question about paying off Student loans aggressively vs savings.

So the wife and I have 100k in total SL debt (face is still bruised, no more punches please) and I've been running numbers in regard to payoff.

based on our current salaries we have about 1k a month in extra we could throw toward the student loans. As far as I can tell, between the tax deduction on the SLs and the fairly modest interest rate (5%) I think that investing the excess in index funds and simply paying the debt on its regular ten year schedule makes the most sense, and will get our 'stache kicked off the best.  Also, since we don't have much in the way of tax deductions currently, this will help us with our tax burden as well, at least until we purchase an investment property (a 1-3 year plan)

Thoughts?

nawhite

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Re: Savings/debt payoff plan.
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2014, 01:27:01 PM »
The math is Compound Annual Growth Rate (CAGR) of your investment - inflation - (student loan interest rate adjusted for tax deduction) = non-risk-adjusted expected return of investing vs saving.

Using 100 year averages, we're looking at 9.1% - 3.22% - (a little less than) 5%= less than 1% return for a MUCH more risky investment. Not my choice.

S0VERE1GN

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Re: Savings/debt payoff plan.
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2014, 01:49:55 PM »
Hm. including Dividend Reinvestment?

I understand its pretty close in general, but I think that holding onto liquid investments is generally better than sinking a large sum of cash into something you can't get it back out of...right?

MDM

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Re: Savings/debt payoff plan.
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2014, 02:15:09 PM »
Pretty much what nawhite said, although I don't quite follow how inflation is affecting only one of "investing" vs "saving".  I'd tend to leave inflation out of the math comparing the two options, but...?

For another way to look at it, see http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/student-loan-interest-deduction/msg285125/#msg285125 and substitute your numbers.

Where nawhite and I do agree completely is on the conclusion: take the guaranteed return if the risky return is, on average, about the same.  You get to define "about".

S0VERE1GN

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Re: Savings/debt payoff plan.
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 02:39:22 PM »
Pretty much what nawhite said, although I don't quite follow how inflation is affecting only one of "investing" vs "saving".  I'd tend to leave inflation out of the math comparing the two options, but...?

For another way to look at it, see http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/student-loan-interest-deduction/msg285125/#msg285125 and substitute your numbers.

Where nawhite and I do agree completely is on the conclusion: take the guaranteed return if the risky return is, on average, about the same.  You get to define "about".

Good article. thanks!!!

I'm thinking a mixture of the two probably make most real world sense. keep some in an investment account working for me to start some type of a 'stache, and use maybe half to pay toward SLs.

nawhite

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Re: Savings/debt payoff plan.
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 03:12:37 PM »
Pretty much what nawhite said, although I don't quite follow how inflation is affecting only one of "investing" vs "saving".  I'd tend to leave inflation out of the math comparing the two options, but...?

Inflation doesn't matter much now, when inflation is 1-2% but when it is around 3-5% it starts to matter. Basically, high inflation is good for debtors. Every year you don't pay your loan off, inflation makes the value of the loan (compared to what you are earning) decrease.

High inflation also decreases the returns of your investments. For instance a 0% checking account is losing money to inflation.

But, when we are comparing the two you only get to count it once because you have put the money in one option or the other. So its either you put the money towards the loan and then get the higher return there, or you put the money toward the investment account and get the lower return there.

MDM

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Re: Savings/debt payoff plan.
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2014, 04:14:18 PM »
Inflation doesn't matter much now, when inflation is 1-2% but when it is around 3-5% it starts to matter. Basically, high inflation is good for debtors. Every year you don't pay your loan off, inflation makes the value of the loan (compared to what you are earning) decrease.

High inflation also decreases the returns of your investments. For instance a 0% checking account is losing money to inflation.

But, when we are comparing the two you only get to count it once because you have put the money in one option or the other. So its either you put the money towards the loan and then get the higher return there, or you put the money toward the investment account and get the lower return there.
Ok, no problems with the first two paragraphs.

Where things get hazier (for me) is in the third, particularly when we look at "one time" options.  E.g., assume we have
  - Amount A sitting in the bank earning interest W% (yes, currently that's ~0%)
  - Investment option B that will return X%
  - Loan with current principal C on which you are paying Y%
  - Inflation running at Z%
  - Marginal tax rate T%, that applies to any income from investments or deductions for loan interest

The Net Present Value (NPV) of leaving A in the bank for "n" years is A*[(1+W*(1-T))/(1+Z)]^n

NPV of option B is A*[(1+X*(1-T))/(1+Z)]^n, so if X>W option B is "better" than leaving the money in the bank - but (as discussed above) risk should be considered.  Z is irrelevant for the sake of determining which NPV is higher.

That's easy enough because both the above are "continuous" investment returns.  Making a one-time loan prepayment is, well, a one time thing:
The value of taking A to reduce C = A + A*Y*(1-T), so after one year the discounted value is A*[(1+Y*(1-T))/(1+Z)]^1.  This is very similar to the formulas above so at first glance it all reduces to comparing X vs. Y vs. W and picking the largest (risk-adjusted).

And it's dinner time so a first glance is all for now - perhaps someone can finish/correct/comment?





Thegoblinchief

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Re: Savings/debt payoff plan.
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 05:52:27 PM »
MDM is far better at math than I am but everything I've seen is that 5% is a toss over longer periods.

Over shorter periods, the guaranteed return of prepayment is a good bet.

 

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