The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: patrickza on July 01, 2015, 08:52:12 AM
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My fiance put her place on AirBNB and the response was amazing (beautiful place, far too much room for us). So good in fact, that we probably need somewhere else to live. We've looked at rentals in the neighborhoods we like, but with her 2 cats and 2 dogs, the only places we can find are $1000+.
Her place has a big-ish laundry room seperate from the rest of the apartment, and I'm the type of person who loves small functional spaces, I guess it reminds me of camping. I'm really keen to spend even up to a years rent ($10000-$12000) turning it into a cozy room. That way we still get to use the big house when it's empty, and we have a great little hideaway, with garden access for the pets. Anyone here experienced with tiny houses and could let me know if I'm dreaming or if this can be done? Is 2.7m high enough for a loft bed of sorts? All I think we need are a toilet, a shower and a sink. The rest we can live without for brief periods.
Here's my high tech cad drawing, guess I'll have to learn google sketchup. Dimensions are in meters, so you'll have to multiply by 3.28 to get feet:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/IMG_20150630_2102111_zpsg3gps3fr.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/IMG_20150630_2102111_zpsg3gps3fr.jpg.html)
Edit, area is 9.2 square meters, or 99 square feet. I quite like that, living in under 100 square feet...
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Is this a side view or a top-down view?
Definitely look into some of the "tiny house" living blogs. Tammy Strobel has a blog and a book that are worth a read.
As far as making it a true apartment, a mini fridge and a single burner induction range wouldn't cost too much (here anyway, I don't know regional availability differences).
Just be sure you know your laws there. Here, there is a limit of how many adults you can have in an apartment based number of bedrooms.
As far as the bed, you can always look to the japanese for inspiration. A futon mat that you roll up during the day would open up the space for use. I've done this with a cheap memory foam mattress topper, actually, and it was the most comfortable bed I ever had. I did that for over a year. Just be sure to keep everything aired out.
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It's a top down view. Yes I never thought to look into japanese style apartments, thanks for the tip.
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Yes, this is a whole movement -- you should be able to find a lot of information on how people optimize a small space.
As for me, it would depend where I was located. In Minnesota, where I currently live? Probably not, because so much of the year is cold enough that I don't get outside for long stretches of time. In a warm climate? Absolutely.
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My bedroom is slightly smaller than this. But are you going to end up basically kitchen-less? Would you be sharing the kitchen with guests? It seems like it makes more sense to rent a small studio than to totally build in the bath/kitchen functionality you need if you are cut off from your normal kitchen area.
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My bedroom is slightly smaller than this. But are you going to end up basically kitchen-less? Would you be sharing the kitchen with guests? It seems like it makes more sense to rent a small studio than to totally build in the bath/kitchen functionality you need if you are cut off from your normal kitchen area.
If it goes ahead I'll get a small fridge and a single stove plate. All depends on size I guess. The thing is it'll likely only be for a few days at a time, and I've lived for weeks in a hotel room with a single plate cooker and no fridge (I travel a lot for work). It works for me, but the SO will need it to be more comfortable.
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As for the question, "could you live in a room this size?" Yes I could, but not with communal space shared with a guest to come and go. I'm entirely too private for that.
If the dogs are the limiting factor on finding a small place to rent and go to when you have guests, are there doggie daycares or someone who could take your dogs for a couple days at a time?
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It all depends on how frequently you need to stay there. One or two nights a week: no problem. More than 3 nights in a row: I would have an issue with that.
I think that tiny houses are usually a bit bigger than this, you are looking at 11m2for your room instead of around 15m2, I think these extra meters make quite a difference. If you draw in a bed in your sketch, which is 2 x 2 meters, you see how much space you have left once the bed is rolled out/pulled out. You can have a small shower cabin in your room without too much effort, however I suppose you want a toilet which can be closed with a door, which is more difficult to realise, especially taking into account door/window openings. If you add a sink/fridge/microwave then it becomes even more cramped. Where will you store your clothes, shoes etc? Will they be permanently in the "big" house or will you need to store them there?
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Could you put in a loft bed with room for a desk or sofa under it?
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Could you put in a loft bed with room for a desk or sofa under it?
We don't need a desk, I'm thinking that it might be possible to put a toilet and hopefully a shower under the bed. A toilet should work, but I don't think 2.7m is enough height for a standup shower.
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Four of us and two dogs live for a week at a time in a trailer that is 16'X7' and includes a kitchen, bathroom and pantry. But that is when we are camping and spend a LOT of time outside.. If this was your main place to be, I would go crazy.
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It's totally doable, even with a full size
bed mattress. Compact stove, fridge, and sink, and maybe even a couch could go under the loft on the longest wall. The shortest wall can have a shower and toilet partitioned off. Then you'd have a little bit of space in between for more seating or work space. 2.7m is plenty high for a custom shower - just get some cheap tile, grout, mortar, and go to work.
Would I be keen on doing it? Not really. But it's doable! Then again, you're not looking at nearly anywhere near $10k. More like $5k, if that (as long as you do the work).
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I lived for about 5 years in a space that was 7 feet by 10 feet IIRC. I had a separate communal bathroom and dining area. I had a loft bed and put my desk under it. I had a couple wardrobes for clothes and boxes on top of them for storage. And a separate futon for when I didn't want to sit in my desk chair. It was all the room I needed. It would have been tight for 2 people.
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I don't know what a meter is but I would totally do it. But what does your SO think?
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http://www.businessinsider.com/tiny-86-square-foot-paris-apartment-2014-10
Also, couldn't you see your cad drawing, maybe I'm not good at looking for attachments or maybe it got removed?
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Back of the Envelope Calculation/Design......:)
H2R
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Do-able for two humans, but will her pets be able to manage it without getting stressed? Is there ever part of the year it's too hot/cold for them to be outside for long stretches?
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For the money you are prepared to spend, you could possibly extend the laundry, or build a small house in your backyard. Our land laws allow people to build a "granny flat" in their back yards, and many companies offer such things as kits.
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Ok, so I'm getting a little more hi-tech and I have some new ideas. One which could make a huge difference to space usage, is to use a loft bed, and put the bathroom underneath it. Have a look at the pictures. Obviously the bathroom will be enclosed, but for the drawing I'll keep it open. The bed is 1.88m long, 1.5m wide and 2.1m at the highest point. That will hopefully give us 1.8m standing room underneath it:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Room_with_bed_zps12i5zm7y.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Room_with_bed_zps12i5zm7y.png.html)
Underneath the bed:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/bathroom%20under%20bed_zpsptxfyrdd.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/bathroom%20under%20bed_zpsptxfyrdd.jpg.html)
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Thanks Spartana, ok here's my plan for a tiny apartment, I'm quite excited about this, hopefully these nice pics will get the fiance on board...
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan1_zpsav2pqri5.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan1_zpsav2pqri5.png.html)
And with the bed gone so you can see the bathroom:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan1_nobed_zpsorsqc1xv.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan1_nobed_zpsorsqc1xv.png.html)
Bed will be walled in:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/View2_zpsunx3jbmb.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/View2_zpsunx3jbmb.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/View%20Inside%20bathroom_zpssvoocir2.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/View%20Inside%20bathroom_zpssvoocir2.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/View1_zpsmb40h4rj.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/View1_zpsmb40h4rj.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/View3_zpslsrfcdd2.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/View3_zpslsrfcdd2.jpg.html)
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Love the drawings, but I think you do not have enough height for the loft bed an shower. Your room is 2.70. Minimum height for a loft bed if you want to be able to sit up without bumping your head is 75 cm from top of the mattress, so if you count 20 cm for bed and mattress, plus ceiling of the shower (which is not a lot at all!) you only have 1.75 left. Average height of a guy is already higher than this, let alone leaving some space between your head and the ceiling to wash your hair. For a shower you also need a waterproof floor or a cabin with a floor which will take some cms.
I also feel the bed is really short, I am 1.60 and for me a 1.90 bed was the minimum, if you add pillows. Width is OK for people who really like each other :-)
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Love the drawings, but I think you do not have enough height for the loft bed an shower. Your room is 2.70. Minimum height for a loft bed if you want to be able to sit up without bumping your head is 75 cm from top of the mattress, so if you count 20 cm for bed and mattress, plus ceiling of the shower (which is not a lot at all!) you only have 1.75 left. Average height of a guy is already higher than this, let alone leaving some space between your head and the ceiling to wash your hair. For a shower you also need a waterproof floor or a cabin with a floor which will take some cms.
I also feel the bed is really short, I am 1.60 and for me a 1.90 bed was the minimum, if you add pillows. Width is OK for people whomreally like each other :-)
It's my only concern, and will be quite close. I'm 1.74m and my fiance shorter, so if we can get away with a 1.8m under bed height (shower will come from the wall not ceiling), and somehow find a slim yet comfortable mattress, that will give us 70cm sitting room. I'm not sure how that will feel, I guess I need to lie under a table on some pillows till I get the 60-70cm clearance, and see if it's feasible. I really hope it is... I'd better go get a ladder and measure the ceiling height accurately too, a few cm can make a lot of difference...
I've also toyed with a really wacky idea, what if the bed was on a hoist of sorts, so when you're up and about it's raised to 2 meters, but when you get into bed it lowers to 1.5m or so. I know that greatly increases the complexity, but it is a thought. Would just have to remember to duck going to the bathroom at night!
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I think the sofa will be too tight where it is. I might move the kitchen over to where the eating area is now and replace the sofa with a small round table and two really comfy chairs.
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I agree that the room between the couch and the bench really looks too small. I'd put a chair in the pointy corner and another near the door. The table could drop, and the stools go somewhere unless they are being used. If they were plain stools with flat tops, they could double as side tables for the easy chairs so you could put a lamp or your drinks and nibbles on them. Easy chairs also give you options to move them about.
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I'm not sure how that will feel, I guess I need to lie under a table on some pillows till I get the 60-70cm clearance, and see if it's feasible. I really hope it is... I'd better go get a ladder and measure the ceiling height accurately too, a few cm can make a lot of difference...
Good way to try it out :-) Whilst you are under that table try the following: you do not just have to have sufficient hight to sit up, but also to change the sheets on the bed.
Also with a loft bed you do not have a nightstand for a glass of water or a book. If the bed is long enough then you can add a small ledge at the head end of the bed, but with your bed already being short you may struggle. However, you can always decide to let the end of the bed extend over the bathroom wall, the bathroom can be shorter than the bed, if you can create sufficient height so you do not bang you head on the overhang.
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I'd do a boat style bathroom where once you are in the bathroom the whole thing including the toilet gets wet. These are annoying to use, but if you put it in the top right corner (the sharp triangle) it could use up that awkward space. Then in the bottom right corner I'd put two custom build single beds in a L formation (storage underneath, with the bed being about couch height). Then I would run the counter across the 3.45m wall ending at the bathroom wall. I;d rather sleep in a single bed near my partner than a loft bed and this eliminates the need for a couch. You also then get a full height shower and some storage.
What software did you use? I'd love to try and draw it up...
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I've been toying around with tiny living for a little bit, and I want to get tinier as I get older (barring kids). This plan looks excellent! I think that the questions raised around head space in the bed are valid. And I agree with Melody that a boat style bathroom could save some room-- it would also be far easier to maintain. Do you have an concerns with the steam from the shower? I suspect you'll be encasing the bottom of the bed with plexi-something to keep the wet out.
I'm posting here to follow along and see how this goes!
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However, you can always decide to let the end of the bed extend over the bathroom wall, the bathroom can be shorter than the bed, if you can create sufficient height so you do not bang you head on the overhang.
Excellent idea, I've shortened the bathroom and put a closet in the space freed up. That opens up the area somewhat:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan3_zpspssqo5hg.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan3_zpspssqo5hg.png.html)
And without the bed, grey block is a closet:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan3_nobed_zpsgsp2t0mz.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan3_nobed_zpsgsp2t0mz.png.html)
I'd do a boat style bathroom where once you are in the bathroom the whole thing including the toilet gets wet. These are annoying to use, but if you put it in the top right corner (the sharp triangle) it could use up that awkward space. Then in the bottom right corner I'd put two custom build single beds in a L formation (storage underneath, with the bed being about couch height). Then I would run the counter across the 3.45m wall ending at the bathroom wall. I;d rather sleep in a single bed near my partner than a loft bed and this eliminates the need for a couch. You also then get a full height shower and some storage.
What software did you use? I'd love to try and draw it up...
Yes, excellent idea, I'll try that next. I used a website called roomsketcher.com quite easy to use. Here's the link to my design, I'm not sure if it allows importing to another or not: http://planner.roomsketcher.com/#/?pid=2160427
If you get in, flick through the different levels. Instead of starting a new project, I just add a floor to try something new.
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Ok, a different try now. With a regular bed you don't need a couch, going for the marine type bathroom as suggested. The door between the bathroom and the rest is a sliding door.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan4_zpsmjvj61jf.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan4_zpsmjvj61jf.png.html)
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This spacing makes more sense to me. I could also be biased because I like a little extra head space when I sleep, and I like the dual function bed proposition. Also, I suspect your plumbing will be easier as you set it up.
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Much more sensible. I was surprised you hadn't walled in the bathroom previously.
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Yeah, this newest design makes the most sense to me. Fewer concerns with mold than with a bed being over a shower!
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This is good. You could set the bed up like a daybed, with a bunch of pillows and a heavy quilt. Storage could go under the bed in bins.
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Completely agree with you all, I was getting carried away in complexity there. This one has a hotel room feel. I've added a wardrobe, painted the walls and tiled the bathroom. I think it'll work. As a bonus, the water connections are on the wall where the sink and toilet is right now too.
The underbed storage is also a great idea.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan4_zpset1axn7p.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan4_zpset1axn7p.png.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan4_View1_zpsuzjkqywe.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan4_View1_zpsuzjkqywe.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan4_View2_zpsp0y2jhaj.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan4_View2_zpsp0y2jhaj.jpg.html)
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As a bonus, the water connections are on the wall where the sink and toilet is right now too.
Boo-yah to easy plumbing!
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Yeah. I'd probably want to hop out to a university/library/coffee place most of the time and not really do too much living there, but I could manage.
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Man this is smart. I would just put a shelf in the wardrobe that pulls out for a desk. If you want to get really high end you could get a murphy bed that folds up and becomes a couch.
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Does the kitchen sink have a fridge underneath? If so, it's just about perfect.
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Is there any way that you could turn the exterior door into something like a slider or pocket door that doesn't take up interior space. That would free up that corner to be used for something.
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Is there any way that you could turn the exterior door into something like a slider or pocket door that doesn't take up interior space. That would free up that corner to be used for something.
I was thinking along the same lines...even having a door that swings out rather than in would make a big difference.
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Does the kitchen sink have a fridge underneath? If so, it's just about perfect.
A fridge won't fit under the sink...so that's something to think about.
The plan is to have that, yes. If it doesn't work with that specific fridge and sink combo then we'll find a pair it does work for.
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Do your housing regs allow for a) that much less window in a room (there are minimum light and egress regs in most places - especially for bedrooms) b) that much window in a bathroom (I had to change my bathroom window glass to some other sort of laminated glass because the regs didn't allow it because the window could be smashed into by a wet body slipping) c) electricials in a shower bathroom?
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Rather than a regular bed, how about a futon? Fold down for sleep, fold up for couch.
Is it worthwhile considering a table/counter that swings down from the wall (rather than a permanent counter beside the sink and cooktop?) or a small table that folds up and stows away when not in use?
This is shaping up nicely, looks very doable! :)
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And we're going ahead. The Fiance loved the mockups. I'm happy, because it means we save $1000 every month which would have been spent on rent. If we can do the work for $5000, then it will pay for itself in just 5 months.
Here are the latest views, I've slapped on some paint, changed the bed, closet and fridge and put some pictures on the walls.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan5L_zpsr6vxao1r.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan5L_zpsr6vxao1r.png.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan5_View1_zpsnusaalmy.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan5_View1_zpsnusaalmy.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan5_View2_zpsfk4tm0zg.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan5_View2_zpsfk4tm0zg.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan5_View3_zpsbdz6h8uz.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan5_View3_zpsbdz6h8uz.jpg.html)
Do your housing regs allow for a) that much less window in a room (there are minimum light and egress regs in most places - especially for bedrooms) b) that much window in a bathroom (I had to change my bathroom window glass to some other sort of laminated glass because the regs didn't allow it because the window could be smashed into by a wet body slipping) c) electricials in a shower bathroom?
a) The regulations should be fine, we'll have to see how much light there is. I haven't measured the window perfectly, but it's very high and I think it will end up around 1.5 meters wide.
b) All depends on where the bathroom wall lines up, again I'll have to see.
c) There shouldn't be any electrical in the bathroom. Shaver ports are not big in this country like they are in the rest of the world, we still use blades :)
Rather than a regular bed, how about a futon? Fold down for sleep, fold up for couch.
Is it worthwhile considering a table/counter that swings down from the wall (rather than a permanent counter beside the sink and cooktop?) or a small table that folds up and stows away when not in use?
This is shaping up nicely, looks very doable! :)
I got a negative on anything foldy for the bed. It's a regular bed or a no go. We both enjoy cooking, so the counter space was needed. Due to the height, I might even have another counter higher up for a (hopefully convection) microwave and some stacking space.
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You might want to round off the pointed end of the bench next to the door. Looks like somewhere you could easily bash yourself onto.
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This is shaping up nicely, if feels roomier than the loft bed.
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Looking good! Lots of chunky shelves in the kitchen area would be great for a convection/microwave and storage. I would caution you against having a footboard or anything hard-edged at the bottom of the bed. We used to have a sharp-cornered bed in a tight space and I can't tell you how many times I gouged myself getting up in the middle of the night.
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I'd have the toilet facing the sink (leg room) but otherwise this looks great! :) Be sure to double check your municipal and state/province code. I'd also do a Murphy bed but I like having a lot of floor space over bed space personally. If you need space to do yoga, play a board game, or do anything when it's raining it's easier to just throw down a mat some cushions on the floor than get more furniture. If you go for a regular bed, trundle drawers are fantastic storage.
Just for kicks, have to tried laying out the room with kitchen stuff in front of the window? Or putting the bathroom next to the entry, and making a more hotel type layout? You get a larger single "room" that way and share circulation space. By putting the bathroom on the window you cut down on the openness of the room and the views. Also weird window/wall seals with direct exposure to water are a good way to get moisture in bad places, unless you replace the window altogether with one suited to this.
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This looks great! It's been fun seeing your mock ups evolve.
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So happy to see the marine bathroom idea worked :-) Love the more modern colour scheme. I second the poster who mentioned the footboard being a bad idea... If you don't have a couch you will find yourself sitting on the end of the bed etc. The other option with this is if you make it pretty you could make this the air b n b option. I would happily stay in something like this if it was priced similarly to a double in a hostel. What country are you in?
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Yes the marine bathroom was a great idea, plus I do plan to live on a boat at some point in future, do good practice :)
We plan on putting this room as well as the main house on air BNB so if one is taken we will just stay in the other.
Another plus, the money spent on the room will hopefully increase the property value, so it could be an even better investment than originally thought.
We stay in Johannesburg, South Africa.
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I would rent this space out instead of the main house.
Ops, just read your last post and see that you already considered this.
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Spent the weekend measuring toilets and finding the right flooring and paint. One big plus is when you're working with such a small area that it's really cheap to finish.
I need 9 square meters of this wood laminate.
Don't you mean 90?
No 9 :)
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Did some accurate measurements last night. Seems I guessed incorrectly where the door was. That meant I had to adjust a few things. Latest layout:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan6_zpslwyfcoev.png) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan6_zpslwyfcoev.png.html)
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Very cool design.
Since it's not going to be stealth mode, but legit with your country/province, can you extend your living space by adding an "outdoor room" at all?
Examples would be as simple as just a pergola kit (with maybe the screens for privacy) all the way up to one of those attached to the house greenhouse rooms.
Even a cheap option like a bolt on awning would awesome: some place to hang with the two dogs, depending on sun/windows it might help with winter heating, etc.
It isn't super cheap for a kit, but would make it less confining for year round...and also more rentable should you decide to go that option or airbnb versus renting the house.
You could also get a beater/barely functioning cargo van and park it near the house fixed up as a 'spare' bedroom, making the 99ft space all kitchen/workspace/bath...which would free up everything even more. Or a used Uhaul trailer or whatever...there are a lot of options if your SO begins to feel it's all too tight.
You don't mention the size of the dogs but having 5 dogs, I do know that space is an issue for them as well.
Please post us your final pics!!!
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Nice. I lived in 7.5 sq m when I first moved to Paris. Toilet out on the landing but shower and kitchenette in the room. It was a squeeze, but good fun.
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Time for another update. The builder came past and suggested we change the bathroom from a partition to sandblasted glass. That'll still let light through, give privacy, and thank to how thin the glass is, save a little space. He also suggested we change the bathroom layout, all looks good to me:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan7_zps70363a3f.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan7_zps70363a3f.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan7e_zps783a20f4.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan7e_zps783a20f4.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan7d_zpsb5384fb7.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan7d_zpsb5384fb7.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan7c_zpsae1ca4e6.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan7c_zpsae1ca4e6.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Plan7b_zps5c07defd.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Plan7b_zps5c07defd.jpg.html)
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I really like that bed spartana, I'm imagining a folding down table attached to the underside would also be great if you needed a desk or dinner table. I'll see what the Fiance says about it and if she's happy for me to attempt some DIY.
I have a feeling it'll get put onto hold for a while as we're in quite a rush to get into the room.
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But I'd seriously do a asset up with a wall bed (Murphy style bed) as you can have both seating (and some have couches, desk and end tables built in) as well as extra storage cabinets. They make them fold out both from the top doen as well as sideways and they use regular size double mattresses.
One more vote for Murphy beds. I believe that this is an American thing, but I could be wrong.
Check this out, https://www.murphybeds.com/
There are kits available to build your own murphy bed.
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Check out this hack for building your own murphy bed...
http://www.instructables.com/id/Ikea-Hack-Murphy-Bed-with-Sliding-Doors/
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Very cool design. Looking forward to the final pictures.
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a) The regulations should be fine, we'll have to see how much light there is. I haven't measured the window perfectly, but it's very high and I think it will end up around 1.5 meters wide.
b) All depends on where the bathroom wall lines up, again I'll have to see.
c) There shouldn't be any electrical in the bathroom. Shaver ports are not big in this country like they are in the rest of the world, we still use blades :)
How about a hair dryer? Not saying it needs to be IN the bathroom but make a note over the next few days of everything you need a wall outlet for and decide where they need to be. One for the alarm clock? Charging cell phones? Kitchen appliances? Laptop plugin?
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Let's put it this way - I need space to breathe. I lived in a space like that once, after 6 months I was ready for bedlam.
However, I like the design on paper and it will be interesting to see how you like it in another year. As far as the bed, the Europeans have beds that flip up and there is an entire mattress size storage space underneath. It isn't a Murphy bed which would make sense, but I prefer my bed to be there when I want to lay down and storage is at a premium in a place this size.
As long as you have access to the outside, like dining outside or BBQ outside, it might help and I'm sure the critters would enjoy it a great deal more too.
Good luck, it is nice to save money and since it is not a permanent 24/7 arrangement it might work well for you. Great job on coming up with a functional design.
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Hmmm...if you did a couch/sofa-murphy bed combo (or even a fixed bed, with storage underneath) would some airliner-style overhead storage bins be helpful? You wouldn't want to have to access them all the time and you would want to be careful of having something stick too far out (either because of the reduced visible space or because of the risk of bumping your head) but as long as you don't normally stand on your bed or on the back of your couch, you could get some extra storage space without sacrificing floor area.
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Oh yeah, definitely doable. The wife and I lived for a year in a van during college so its definitely possible with a space that size. Especially if all you want to do is sleep/relax in there.
The great thing about living in small spaces is how efficient you get. Its a great way to keep you from buying useless stuff. Plus you start to see the world of living spaces in a whole new light. Houses/apartments other people won't touch because of their size suddenly become mansions to you.
So yeah, definitely go for it! Efficient living should always be encouraged!
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I would just put the bed on plastic risers, and use large plastic storage boxes under. Lots cheaper then custom built and just as functional for the space. I lived in 750 sq ft with my dh and 3 kids, and that is what we did. Clothes, toys, linens can all go in the tubs. I would put a nice looking, shallow shelf high above the bed for anything you want easier access to. (Glasses, book, water, phone).
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What do you mean by plastic risers, it's not something I've heard of before.
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Eat, shit, sleep, in that order, literally. Lol looking good.
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What do you mean by plastic risers, it's not something I've heard of before.
These. Ever popular for college students:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/5148131
Ah got it. You're a lot more high tec than us, we simply use bricks. This has the added value of keeping the tokoloshe away http://cryptidz.wikia.com/wiki/Tokoloshe
:p
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So the room is now cleared, and the plumbing going in!
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150728_201342_zpsed8a25ac.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150728_201342_zpsed8a25ac.jpg.html)
Broom and short pipe mark the bed, long pipe is the bathroom divider. Feels spacious!
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150728_201423_zps41bb051d.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150728_201423_zps41bb051d.jpg.html)
Bathroom changed design after speaking to the plumber. Our builder says he can knock out that protrusion in the wall for a little more space.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150728_204527_zps46a8ae80.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150728_204527_zps46a8ae80.jpg.html)
Had some left over yellow shower tiles so we thought we'd give that a try. We're going to raise the bathroom up about 12cm so we can curve it down to the drain.
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Cool. . . excited to see the final product!
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Neat! Where I live, you have to have 15 inches clearance from the middle of the toilet to any obstructions, do you have similar laws? And where'd you get that tiny sink? It's amazing! I plan on putting a bathroom in on my first floor that will be about that size.
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Any updates on the new room? I'm excited to see how it is going!
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Well yes and no, our builder is fully booked until mid September, but our plumber put a toilet and basin in temporarily so we can use the room. We also bought a bed and a bedside table was left behind by an airbmb guest, the exact one we wanted! It was too big for then to carry home, score us! We have the gym 200m away for showers at the moment. We also have a portable stove and table as the kitchen. It's kind of like camping, but with a great bed. We really can't wait to get it done either though. Here's how it looks now:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150731_193233_zps28e9f9bf.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150731_193233_zps28e9f9bf.jpg.html)
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For some insight and ideas on tiny house living, I've been watching free episodes of "Tiny House Nation" from the channel FYI. There are several episodes that are available for free online without a cable subscription sign-on (www.fyi.tv/shows/tiny-house-nation).
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this is so awesome!
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have you ever seen something called a murphy bed? might solve your height issues but not your bathroom issues. it would leave you more living space for the day time
http://www.homedit.com/murphy-bed-design-ideas/ (http://www.homedit.com/murphy-bed-design-ideas/)
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What's right outside that room? I'm wondering if you could claim some of that space. For instance, if it's a hallway, the door to the room could actually be in the hallway, giving you some extra space.
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What's right outside that room? I'm wondering if you could claim some of that space. For instance, if it's a hallway, the door to the room could actually be in the hallway, giving you some extra space.
On the window side there's a small garden, but we're not allowed to alter anything exterior, so I can't put in a door. No space anyway. The other side is a few steps leading down to the communal parking lot.
Oh and we've been living in there for 2 weeks now while our place is on airBNB. I'm showering at the office during the week, and the gym on weekend. It works, and my wife is making a fortune so will hopefully pay the apartment off in 3 years if she saves all of the money!
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I'm a small space junkie and I can't believe I missed this thread! SO cool that you've incorporated other people's ideas into your design. I have something similar. My retirement home is 1865 sf and it has a 180 sf attached casita (guest house) with a separate entrance. I plan on juggling renting out one and living in the other the other during my retirement, according to the season. I love the idea that I can just move back and forth to generate income as needed. I know my casita is a monster compared to your project, but I have some suggestions based on experience that I hope will be helpful.
Kitchen storage might be beefed up a bit. I have a table and chairs, but end up sitting on the bed most of the time. Cabinets/drawers underneath (to the left of the sink, toward the door) might be more useful than empty space for chairs. Could you install cabinets and then a pull down, hinged table that rests on top of the cabinets and projects out just far enough to use as an eating ledge? Ikea sells cute chairs that fold flat and could hang on the wall above the bed when not in use. If that doesn't appeal, you could at least build shallow shelves under the table to act as a pantry of sorts.
I would also consider a high shelf anywhere there's room, even over the entry door. There are step stools that fold flat, or the aforementioned sturdy folding chairs might be able to do double duty, depending on the style you choose. I'd add shelving along the kitchen wall, as others have suggested. Also, install a hotel type towel rack high on the wall over the toilet to hold towels and for clothes drying.
I can't wait to see what happens in September. Keep the photos coming, please. And sorry for the American dimensions. I can math, therefore I can metric, but not in my head and certainly not after midnight.
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Thanks for the great suggestions Diane, we've decided to increase kitchen storage as you suggested, and you're right, the chairs aren't needed, so we'll leave them off.
Sadly for us, the builder cancelled. He had bigger more profitable jobs to do, so I'm looking for another one now.
We went camping last week. The wife and I laughed that the tent was the same square meterage as the mini-apartment! Up till now we've spent over 40 days in it, with one 21 day stretch. I love it, but my wife says her clothes smell like dinner... Something to think about...
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I like this, and I'm happy that you've decided to make it a potential airbnb rental when it's done. The big take-away for me is how one outside-the-box idea -- in this case, the marine washroom -- makes all the rest of it so much better.
A few things I would consider:
-you definitely have room for storage -- shelves, perhaps -- over the door.
-make sure you have enough kitchen storage for a garbage container.
-don't forget dirty laundry storage.
-if you ever cook anything greasy, the bed will pick up the smells. Maybe a tight-woven bedspread would help. Or not cooking anything greasy.
-try to fit a tall mirror somewhere, ideally on the wall opposite the window. Typical advice is to have it on a wall perpendicular to the window to bounce more light into the room, but in a tiny space you also want to think about the psychological benefits of (natural) light coming from two opposite sources (see A Pattern Language for more).
Good luck with this! It's a great idea!
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Time for an update. Some progress, and some body corporate issues.
Let's start with the issues:
As we're not changing anything outside the unit, and not running any new pipes in or out, we weren't even sure we needed permission, but being good residents we asked the head of the body corporate.
He confirmed, they have no problem what we do on the inside of our section. Then with the usual builders delays, we only really got the work started in November. We have a new body corporate in place, and they somehow took offense to us doing the work and told our builder to stop. They phoned the wife to see if she had permission and she said yes. Then they phoned the former head of the body corporate who said he never gave permission. Sadly for them we have the email granting permission, and this was duly sent.
After that, for a reason I just can't figure out, they sent armed guards to the builder, and then to my wife's place of work threatening her to stop the work. My wife was very shaken and near tears throughout the day, and hugely embarrassed as she is a hair salon owner, and the place was full of customers.
We did go see the woman from the body corporate and she still says that we have to stop the (paid for) work, though she did offer her apology for sending the armed guards.
The next day I called the managing agents and spoke to their lawyer. As we rightly assumed in the beginning, we never required their permission to do any work on the inside of the apartment, but being able to live there is a separate issue. From my understanding of the law, there are three ways to class a section of a property. One is your section, which is habitable, the other is parking, and the third is a store room. This piece wasn't mentioned on the plans, so it's a bit of a gray area. The room does meet all the requirements for a habitable space, it has an entrance, an escape option, the roof is over 7 foot high, and the window meets the required minimum size. It also had plumbing. My guess is that the previous owner intended it to be a maids room or something to that effect.
On a side note, we found out that the body corporate incorrectly allocated two parking bays in our exclusive use area to other units. On top of that they charged them rent for them! We'll try use this in our favour should we need to argue about us living there.
And now on to the happier side, the updated photos. We're nearly done, just the finishing on the plumbing, electrical and glass work.
The kitchen:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174727_zps0fopqyfx.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174727_zps0fopqyfx.jpg.html)
Bathroom to be completed, but here you can see the floor and the window. Doesn't seem to be a view for a store room if you ask me:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174718_zpsq8s5cmfc.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174718_zpsq8s5cmfc.jpg.html)
sink and counter top:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174848_zpsevwmcxob.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174848_zpsevwmcxob.jpg.html)
Tiles, round is inside bathroom, square in kitchen:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174755_zpsupcbhrdr.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174755_zpsupcbhrdr.jpg.html)
Bathroom floor tiles:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174745_zpsukiztqlj.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151201_174745_zpsukiztqlj.jpg.html)
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Beautiful finishes.
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Armed guards?
Wow.
It looks nice, and kudos for not being brow beaten by Gestapo tactics. If they previously sent, in writing, a "fine by us", you should at least be reimbursed for out of pocket expenses if they rule against you. Because the guy who sent it was the legal corporate dude at the time: you asked, they said ok, you proceeded.
And the fact that they have collected rent for two spaces that are yours puts you in an awesome legal position: that's somewhere between outright fraud and theft of services.
Good luck! It looks nice, btw.
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whats a "body Corporate" an HOA ??
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Holy cow. Next time I hear of an HOA being a PITA, I'll just remember- at least they didn't send armed guards!
Sorry you're having to go through this. Looks great though.
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Armed guards?
Wow.
It looks nice, and kudos for not being brow beaten by Gestapo tactics. If they previously sent, in writing, a "fine by us", you should at least be reimbursed for out of pocket expenses if they rule against you. Because the guy who sent it was the legal corporate dude at the time: you asked, they said ok, you proceeded.
And the fact that they have collected rent for two spaces that are yours puts you in an awesome legal position: that's somewhere between outright fraud and theft of services.
Good luck! It looks nice, btw.
^This^. Very nice, in fact! Thanks for the update. Can't wait for the next chapter.
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So all is in apart from the shower section. We've also been staying in the room for the last two days, and it is quite cozy! The glass will only happen next year, as unlike you northern hemisphere folks, it's summer holidays here, and most industries shut down. Anyway, here are the pictures, excuse the quality, I had the light in front of me for a few of the shots:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095619_zpseymdhp3k.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095619_zpseymdhp3k.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095640_zpsezqulssw.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095640_zpsezqulssw.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095657_zpsctqyzdy0.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095657_zpsctqyzdy0.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095722_zpsuasrnd2b.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095722_zpsuasrnd2b.jpg.html)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/pgpatrick/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095737_zpsaznzcc7e.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pgpatrick/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151213_095737_zpsaznzcc7e.jpg.html)
So, I think we can totally live in under 100 square feet (9sqm). I could do it permanently, but I think my wife would only be able to manage to short periods of time.
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patrickza, it looks amazing! Way to go. :-)
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I love it!
I would totally do it, my DW not so much. I might be able to get her to stay in a studio for 4 month next year. Maybe after that she will be more open to a tiny house.
Love the way you designed it.
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That looks phenomenal!
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I'm very impressed. Both at the super-mustachian idea, as well as the quality execution.
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Wow, this looks amazing! So cool to see it from just an idea to full exectution in less than five minutes (I hadn't seen the original thread). How much did it cost, and how much have you been making on air bnb?
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This looks so great! I would totally live there. Even better would be to have an easy to access outdoor area, but that was already brought up I saw.
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That looks fantastic!
Maybe I missed it, but did you list your final costs?
And good luck with the body corporate :)
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When I first started reading the thread i thought you were nuts! haha but as I went on i got roped in. Went from saying no F***ing way to yea i can do it! well done you made ME a believer!
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Thanks everyone. I can take pretty much none of the credit, all I did was draw some pictures. My wife did the hard work managing the builder and choosing the materials.
How much did it cost, and how much have you been making on air bnb?
Cost us around $4000 in the end, which is pretty much our December airBNB takings (we've booked out every day in December apart from 2!). We're definitely in profit already!
Sorry if I missed an earlier summary, but are all your possessions stored in the space, or do you have storage elsewhere?
Only the things we need are stored inside. Most of the stuff we have is still in the apartment.
glass walls or solid walls or both?
Frost glass. We want to keep the light flowing, so there won't be any walls, just 2 meter tall frost glass around the shower area.
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Thanks everyone. I can take pretty much none of the credit, all I did was draw some pictures. My wife did the hard work managing the builder and choosing the materials.
How much did it cost, and how much have you been making on air bnb?
Cost us around $4000 in the end, which is pretty much our December airBNB takings (we've booked out every day in December apart from 2!). We're definitely in profit already!
Sorry if I missed an earlier summary, but are all your possessions stored in the space, or do you have storage elsewhere?
Only the things we need are stored inside. Most of the stuff we have is still in the apartment.
glass walls or solid walls or both?
Frost glass. We want to keep the light flowing, so there won't be any walls, just 2 meter tall frost glass around the shower area.
Wow profitable after a month, that's badass! I'm planning on building a 900 square foot 2 bedroom 1 bathroom house after I'm done finishing my rental, and all my coworkers think I'm crazy and shouldn't own a house without 4 bedrooms 3 bathrooms and 3000 square feet. Currently I have a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house, as well as a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom manufactured home that I put on a basement/garage/foundation. Currently working on finishing that, but both of these are far too big for me and my girlfriend so I'll rent them both out.
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Thanks everyone. I can take pretty much none of the credit, all I did was draw some pictures. My wife did the hard work managing the builder and choosing the materials.
How much did it cost, and how much have you been making on air bnb?
Cost us around $4000 in the end, which is pretty much our December airBNB takings (we've booked out every day in December apart from 2!). We're definitely in profit already!
Amazing! Congrats!!!
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removing my post, because I only read first page and now I realized it is all complete and I'm excited to go look at the pics. :-)
and it looks awesome! nice job!
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Looks amazing! I like that you are considering renting out this side too - what an awesome little space!
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I didn't expect it to look so good. Impressive!
I guess that joke that starts "in heaven, the cops are British, the cooks Italian..." and ends with things reversed in Hell should point out that in Hell the HOAs are South African.
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What are you doing woth all your personal stuff like pictures and memorabilia?
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This is pretty damn awesome. Well done.
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Wow! This is amazing!
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Hi patrickza,
I love what you've done so far. I've just returned from my own tiny place and am reminded once again how cool it is to have a perfect jewel box of one's own. I don't rent mine out, but do lend it to friends on occasion. One of those times is coming up so I needed to "deep clean" at the end of my stay. Took about twenty minutes to nuke everything, including changing the linens. Fun.
I love the blue tile and that everything looks so neat and clean. If I may, a few very gentle suggestions, as I am totally in awe of what you've done. Some thoughts are repeats, some are new. Feel free to ignore or implement, as best suits you.
1. Is there underbed storage? If not, it might be worth considering at some point. If I had some extra dollars, I'd build a hinged platform under the mattress with hydraulic shocks to make lifting it a breeze. Having a place for linens and off-season items that's easy to get to but out of sight would really be a plus. If you build it, you could even figure out some kind of locking mechanism, so you could store personal things a little more securely.
2. A long, high shelf on at least one wall might also be useful.
3. The gaps on the far left and right sides of the kitchen are screaming to be put to good use. At one time, folding chairs and small table were in the mix. The right ones might tuck nicely into those spaces and increase the unit's versatility.
4. A hook or two to get the dish drying rack off the counter when it's not in use might also be handy.
Thanks for the update and please post more photos as the details are finalized. So cool to see this go from idea to reality!
~ Diane
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Posting to follow because I really want to see more pictures!
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That's awesome! I can't believe how well the unit turned out - it was hard to imagine it from your initial sketchings (even with fancy pictures on the wall!), but it turned out beautifully!
I'm not sure how I'd feel pooping so close to my partner with only some see-through-glass. Will the glass extend to the ceiling? I hope you don't do smelly poops.
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awesome! I really want to do this style build for a few tiny cabins on a chunk of land near the lake. Maybe make a few, with one bigger communal indoor/outdoor kitchen and living room. that way we could have friends and family come stay but not be all up in our stuff, and rent a few of them out on occasion. Looks like a fun Build as you Go project, too!