Author Topic: Could you live in a room this size...  (Read 32369 times)

patrickza

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Could you live in a room this size...
« on: July 01, 2015, 08:52:12 AM »
My fiance put her place on AirBNB and the response was amazing (beautiful place, far too much room for us). So good in fact, that we probably need somewhere else to live. We've looked at rentals in the neighborhoods we like, but with her 2 cats and 2 dogs, the only places we can find are $1000+.

Her place has a big-ish laundry room seperate from the rest of the apartment, and I'm the type of person who loves small functional spaces, I guess it reminds me of camping. I'm really keen to spend even up to a years rent ($10000-$12000) turning it into a cozy room. That way we still get to use the big house when it's empty, and we have a great little hideaway, with garden access for the pets. Anyone here experienced with tiny houses and could let me know if I'm dreaming or if this can be done? Is 2.7m high enough for a loft bed of sorts? All I think we need are a toilet, a shower and a sink. The rest we can live without for brief periods.

Here's my high tech cad drawing, guess I'll have to learn google sketchup. Dimensions are in meters, so you'll have to multiply by 3.28 to get feet:


Edit, area is 9.2 square meters, or 99 square feet. I quite like that, living in under 100 square feet...
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 02:52:35 AM by patrickza »

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2015, 09:01:22 AM »
Is this a side view or a top-down view?

Definitely look into some of the "tiny house" living blogs. Tammy Strobel has a blog and a book that are worth a read.

As far as making it a true apartment, a mini fridge and a single burner induction range wouldn't cost too much (here anyway, I don't know regional availability differences).

Just be sure you know your laws there. Here, there is a limit of how many adults you can have in an apartment based number of bedrooms.

As far as the bed, you can always look to the japanese for inspiration. A futon mat that you roll up during the day would open up the space for use. I've done this with a cheap memory foam mattress topper, actually, and it was the most comfortable bed I ever had. I did that for over a year. Just be sure to keep everything aired out.

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2015, 09:03:28 AM »
It's a top down view. Yes I never thought to look into japanese style apartments, thanks for the tip.

Kris

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2015, 09:07:55 AM »
Yes, this is a whole movement -- you should be able to find a lot of information on how people optimize a small space.

As for me, it would depend where I was located. In Minnesota, where I currently live? Probably not, because so much of the year is cold enough that I don't get outside for long stretches of time.  In a warm climate?  Absolutely.

norabird

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2015, 09:13:32 AM »
My bedroom is slightly smaller than this. But are you going to end up basically kitchen-less? Would you be sharing the kitchen with guests? It seems like it makes more sense to rent a small studio than to totally build in the bath/kitchen functionality you need if you are cut off from your normal kitchen area.

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2015, 09:16:37 AM »
My bedroom is slightly smaller than this. But are you going to end up basically kitchen-less? Would you be sharing the kitchen with guests? It seems like it makes more sense to rent a small studio than to totally build in the bath/kitchen functionality you need if you are cut off from your normal kitchen area.

If it goes ahead I'll get a small fridge and a single stove plate. All depends on size I guess. The thing is it'll likely only be for a few days at a time, and I've lived for weeks in a hotel room with a single plate cooker and no fridge (I travel a lot for work). It works for me, but the SO will need it to be more comfortable.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2015, 09:19:06 AM »
As for the question, "could you live in a room this size?"  Yes I could, but not with communal space shared with a guest to come and go. I'm entirely too private for that.

If the dogs are the limiting factor on finding a small place to rent and go to when you have guests, are there doggie daycares or someone who could take your dogs for a couple days at a time?

Shamantha

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2015, 09:25:30 AM »
It all depends on how frequently you need to stay there. One or two nights a week: no problem. More than 3 nights in a row: I would have an issue with that.

I think that tiny houses are usually a bit bigger than this, you are looking at 11m2for your room instead of around 15m2, I think these extra meters make quite a difference. If you draw in a bed in your sketch, which is 2 x 2 meters, you see how much space you have left once the bed is rolled out/pulled out. You can have a small shower cabin in your room without too much effort, however I suppose you want a toilet which can be closed with a door, which is more difficult to realise, especially taking into account door/window openings. If you add a sink/fridge/microwave then it becomes even more cramped. Where will you store your clothes, shoes etc? Will they be permanently in the "big" house or will you need to store them there?

pbkmaine

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 09:29:33 AM »
Could you put in a loft bed with room for a desk or sofa under it?

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 09:33:44 AM »
Could you put in a loft bed with room for a desk or sofa under it?

We don't need a desk, I'm thinking that it might be possible to put a toilet and hopefully a shower under the bed. A toilet should work, but I don't think 2.7m is enough height for a standup shower.

regulator

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2015, 09:42:06 AM »
Four of us and two dogs live for a week at a time in a trailer that is 16'X7' and includes a kitchen, bathroom and pantry.  But that is when we are camping and spend a LOT of time outside..  If this was your main place to be, I would go crazy.

Ricky

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2015, 10:38:39 AM »
It's totally doable, even with a full size bed mattress. Compact stove, fridge, and sink, and maybe even a couch could go under the loft on the longest wall. The shortest wall can have a shower and toilet partitioned off. Then you'd have a little bit of space in between for more seating or work space. 2.7m is plenty high for a custom shower - just get some cheap tile, grout, mortar, and go to work.

Would I be keen on doing it? Not really. But it's doable! Then again, you're not looking at nearly anywhere near $10k. More like $5k, if that (as long as you do the work).
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 10:45:38 AM by Ricky »

forummm

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2015, 10:45:43 AM »
I lived for about 5 years in a space that was 7 feet by 10 feet IIRC. I had a separate communal bathroom and dining area. I had a loft bed and put my desk under it. I had a couple wardrobes for clothes and boxes on top of them for storage. And a separate futon for when I didn't want to sit in my desk chair. It was all the room I needed. It would have been tight for 2 people.

mozar

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2015, 05:15:06 PM »
I don't know what a meter is but I would totally do it. But what does your SO think?

Jeremy E.

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2015, 05:52:35 PM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/tiny-86-square-foot-paris-apartment-2014-10
Also, couldn't you see your cad drawing, maybe I'm not good at looking for attachments or maybe it got removed?

hope2retire

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2015, 07:24:34 PM »
Back of the Envelope Calculation/Design......:)

H2R

okits

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2015, 07:45:18 PM »
Do-able for two humans, but will her pets be able to manage it without getting stressed?  Is there ever part of the year it's too hot/cold for them to be outside for long stretches?

deborah

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2015, 07:48:19 PM »
For the money you are prepared to spend, you could possibly extend the laundry, or build a small house in your backyard. Our land laws allow people to build a "granny flat" in their back yards, and many companies offer such things as kits.

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2015, 11:34:01 PM »
Ok, so I'm getting a little more hi-tech and I have some new ideas. One which could make a huge difference to space usage, is to use a loft bed, and put the bathroom underneath it. Have a look at the pictures. Obviously the bathroom will be enclosed, but for the drawing I'll keep it open. The bed is 1.88m long, 1.5m wide and 2.1m at the highest point. That will hopefully give us 1.8m standing room underneath it:


Underneath the bed:

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2015, 02:10:20 AM »
Thanks Spartana, ok here's my plan for a tiny apartment, I'm quite excited about this, hopefully these nice pics will get the fiance on board...



And with the bed gone so you can see the bathroom:


Bed will be walled in:






« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 03:36:40 AM by patrickza »

Shamantha

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2015, 04:07:18 AM »
Love the drawings, but I think you do not have enough height for the loft bed an shower. Your room is 2.70. Minimum height for a loft bed if you want to be able to sit up without bumping your head is 75 cm from top of the mattress, so if you count 20 cm for bed and mattress, plus ceiling of the shower (which is not a lot at all!) you only have 1.75 left. Average height of a guy is already higher than this, let alone leaving some space between your head and the ceiling to wash your hair. For a shower you also need a waterproof floor or a cabin with a floor which will take some cms.

I also feel the bed is really short, I am 1.60 and for me a 1.90 bed was the minimum, if you add pillows. Width is OK for people who really like each other :-)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 05:55:48 AM by Shamantha »

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2015, 04:20:27 AM »
Love the drawings, but I think you do not have enough height for the loft bed an shower. Your room is 2.70. Minimum height for a loft bed if you want to be able to sit up without bumping your head is 75 cm from top of the mattress, so if you count 20 cm for bed and mattress, plus ceiling of the shower (which is not a lot at all!) you only have 1.75 left. Average height of a guy is already higher than this, let alone leaving some space between your head and the ceiling to wash your hair. For a shower you also need a waterproof floor or a cabin with a floor which will take some cms.

I also feel the bed is really short, I am 1.60 and for me a 1.90 bed was the minimum, if you add pillows. Width is OK for people whomreally like each other :-)

It's my only concern, and will be quite close. I'm 1.74m and my fiance shorter, so if we can get away with a 1.8m under bed height (shower will come from the wall not ceiling), and somehow find a slim yet comfortable mattress, that will give us 70cm sitting room. I'm not sure how that will feel, I guess I need to lie under a table on some pillows till I get the 60-70cm clearance, and see if it's feasible. I really hope it is... I'd better go get a ladder and measure the ceiling height accurately too, a few cm can make a lot of difference...

I've also toyed with a really wacky idea, what if the bed was on a hoist of sorts, so when you're up and about it's raised to 2 meters, but when you get into bed it lowers to 1.5m or so. I know that greatly increases the complexity, but it is a thought. Would just have to remember to duck going to the bathroom at night!

pbkmaine

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2015, 05:00:07 AM »
I think the sofa will be too tight where it is. I might move the kitchen over to where the eating area is now and replace the sofa with a small round table and two really comfy chairs.

deborah

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2015, 05:08:47 AM »
I agree that the room between the couch and the bench really looks too small. I'd put a chair in the pointy corner and another near the door. The table could drop, and the stools go somewhere unless they are being used. If they were plain stools with flat tops, they could double as side tables for the easy chairs so you could put a lamp or your drinks and nibbles on them. Easy chairs also give you options to move them about.

Shamantha

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2015, 06:01:41 AM »
I'm not sure how that will feel, I guess I need to lie under a table on some pillows till I get the 60-70cm clearance, and see if it's feasible. I really hope it is... I'd better go get a ladder and measure the ceiling height accurately too, a few cm can make a lot of difference...

Good way to try it out :-) Whilst you are under that table try the following: you do not just have to have sufficient hight to sit up, but also to change the sheets on the bed.

Also with a loft bed you do not have a nightstand for a glass of water or a book. If the bed is long enough then you can add a small ledge at the head end of the bed, but with your bed already being short you may struggle. However, you can always decide to let the end of the bed extend over the bathroom wall, the bathroom can be shorter than the bed, if you can create sufficient height so you do not bang you head on the overhang.

Melody

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2015, 06:55:19 AM »
I'd do a boat style bathroom where once you are in the bathroom the whole thing including the toilet gets wet. These are annoying to use, but if you put it in the top right corner (the sharp triangle) it could use up that awkward space. Then in the bottom right corner I'd put two custom build single beds in a L formation (storage underneath, with the bed being about couch height). Then I would run the counter across the 3.45m wall ending at the bathroom wall.  I;d rather sleep in a single bed near my partner than a loft bed and this eliminates the need for a couch. You also then get a full height shower and some storage.
What software did you use? I'd love to try and draw it up...

PARedbeard

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2015, 06:59:55 AM »
I've been toying around with tiny living for a little bit, and I want to get tinier as I get older (barring kids). This plan looks excellent! I think that the questions raised around head space in the bed are valid. And I agree with Melody that a boat style bathroom could save some room-- it would also be far easier to maintain.  Do you have an concerns with the steam from the shower? I suspect you'll be encasing the bottom of the bed with plexi-something to keep the wet out.

I'm posting here to follow along and see how this goes!

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2015, 07:14:20 AM »
However, you can always decide to let the end of the bed extend over the bathroom wall, the bathroom can be shorter than the bed, if you can create sufficient height so you do not bang you head on the overhang.
Excellent idea, I've shortened the bathroom and put a closet in the space freed up. That opens up the area somewhat:


And without the bed, grey block is a closet:


I'd do a boat style bathroom where once you are in the bathroom the whole thing including the toilet gets wet. These are annoying to use, but if you put it in the top right corner (the sharp triangle) it could use up that awkward space. Then in the bottom right corner I'd put two custom build single beds in a L formation (storage underneath, with the bed being about couch height). Then I would run the counter across the 3.45m wall ending at the bathroom wall.  I;d rather sleep in a single bed near my partner than a loft bed and this eliminates the need for a couch. You also then get a full height shower and some storage.
What software did you use? I'd love to try and draw it up...
Yes, excellent idea, I'll try that next. I used a website called roomsketcher.com quite easy to use. Here's the link to my design, I'm not sure if it allows importing to another or not: http://planner.roomsketcher.com/#/?pid=2160427

If you get in, flick through the different levels. Instead of starting a new project, I just add a floor to try something new.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 07:16:10 AM by patrickza »

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2015, 07:42:20 AM »
Ok, a different try now. With a regular bed you don't need a couch, going for the marine type bathroom as suggested. The door between the bathroom and the rest is a sliding door.


PARedbeard

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2015, 08:08:35 AM »
This spacing makes more sense to me. I could also be biased because I like a little extra head space when I sleep, and I like the dual function bed proposition. Also, I suspect your plumbing will be easier as you set it up.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2015, 08:12:23 AM »
Much more sensible. I was surprised you hadn't walled in the bathroom previously.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2015, 08:21:29 AM »
Yeah, this newest design makes the most sense to me. Fewer concerns with mold than with a bed being over a shower!

pbkmaine

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2015, 08:26:47 AM »
This is good. You could set the bed up like a daybed, with a bunch of pillows and a heavy quilt. Storage could go under the bed in bins.

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2015, 08:32:19 AM »
Completely agree with you all, I was getting carried away in complexity there. This one has a hotel room feel. I've added a wardrobe, painted the walls and tiled the bathroom. I think it'll work. As a bonus, the water connections are on the wall where the sink and toilet is right now too.

The underbed storage is also a great idea.




PARedbeard

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2015, 11:36:30 AM »
As a bonus, the water connections are on the wall where the sink and toilet is right now too.


Boo-yah to easy plumbing!

chucklesmcgee

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2015, 11:50:46 AM »
Yeah. I'd probably want to hop out to a university/library/coffee place most of the time and not really do too much living there, but I could manage.

mozar

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2015, 12:19:05 PM »
Man this is smart. I would just put a shelf in the wardrobe that pulls out for a desk. If you want to get really high end you could get a murphy bed that folds up and becomes a couch.

pbkmaine

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2015, 12:51:13 PM »
Does the kitchen sink have a fridge underneath? If so, it's just about perfect.

waffle

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2015, 01:12:03 PM »
Is there any way that you could turn the exterior door into something like a slider or pocket door that doesn't take up interior space. That would free up that corner to be used for something.

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2015, 02:31:27 PM »
Is there any way that you could turn the exterior door into something like a slider or pocket door that doesn't take up interior space. That would free up that corner to be used for something.

I was thinking along the same lines...even having a door that swings out rather than in would make a big difference.

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2015, 03:33:46 PM »
Does the kitchen sink have a fridge underneath? If so, it's just about perfect.

A fridge won't fit under the sink...so that's something to think about.

The plan is to have that, yes. If it doesn't work with that specific fridge and sink combo then we'll find a pair it does work for.

deborah

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2015, 04:35:03 PM »
Do your housing regs allow for a) that much less window in a room (there are minimum light and egress regs in most places - especially for bedrooms) b) that much window in a bathroom (I had to change my bathroom window glass to some other sort of laminated glass because the regs didn't allow it because the window could be smashed into by a wet body slipping) c) electricials in a shower bathroom?

okits

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2015, 10:28:26 PM »
Rather than a regular bed, how about a futon?  Fold down for sleep, fold up for couch.

Is it worthwhile considering a table/counter that swings down from the wall (rather than a permanent counter beside the sink and cooktop?)  or a small table that folds up and stows away when not in use?

This is shaping up nicely, looks very doable!  :)

patrickza

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2015, 01:18:57 AM »
And we're going ahead. The Fiance loved the mockups. I'm happy, because it means we save $1000 every month which would have been spent on rent. If we can do the work for $5000, then it will pay for itself in just 5 months.

Here are the latest views, I've slapped on some paint, changed the bed, closet and fridge and put some pictures on the walls.








Do your housing regs allow for a) that much less window in a room (there are minimum light and egress regs in most places - especially for bedrooms) b) that much window in a bathroom (I had to change my bathroom window glass to some other sort of laminated glass because the regs didn't allow it because the window could be smashed into by a wet body slipping) c) electricials in a shower bathroom?
a) The regulations should be fine, we'll have to see how much light there is. I haven't measured the window perfectly, but it's very high and I think it will end up around 1.5 meters wide.
b) All depends on where the bathroom wall lines up, again I'll have to see.
c) There shouldn't be any electrical in the bathroom. Shaver ports are not big in this country like they are in the rest of the world, we still use blades :)

Rather than a regular bed, how about a futon?  Fold down for sleep, fold up for couch.

Is it worthwhile considering a table/counter that swings down from the wall (rather than a permanent counter beside the sink and cooktop?)  or a small table that folds up and stows away when not in use?

This is shaping up nicely, looks very doable!  :)
I got a negative on anything foldy for the bed. It's a regular bed or a no go. We both enjoy cooking, so the counter space was needed. Due to the height, I might even have another counter higher up for a (hopefully convection) microwave and some stacking space.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 02:00:06 AM by patrickza »

deborah

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2015, 01:31:19 AM »
You might want to round off the pointed end of the bench next to the door. Looks like somewhere you could easily bash yourself onto.

Shamantha

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2015, 06:39:31 AM »
This is shaping up nicely, if feels roomier than the loft bed.

pbkmaine

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2015, 09:22:18 AM »
Looking good! Lots of chunky shelves in the kitchen area would be great for a convection/microwave and storage. I would caution you against having a footboard or anything hard-edged at the bottom of the bed. We used to have a sharp-cornered bed in a tight space and I can't tell you how many times I gouged myself getting up in the middle of the night.

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2015, 09:58:50 AM »
I'd have the toilet facing the sink (leg room) but otherwise this looks great!  :)  Be sure to double check your municipal and state/province code.  I'd also do a Murphy bed but I like having a lot of floor space over bed space personally.  If you need space to do yoga, play a board game, or do anything when it's raining it's easier to just throw down a mat some cushions on the floor than get more furniture.  If you go for a regular bed, trundle drawers are fantastic storage.

Just for kicks, have to tried laying out the room with kitchen stuff in front of the window?  Or putting the bathroom next to the entry, and making a more hotel type layout?  You get a larger single "room" that way and share circulation space.  By putting the bathroom on the window you cut down on the openness of the room and the views.  Also weird window/wall seals with direct exposure to water are a good way to get moisture in bad places, unless you replace the window altogether with one suited to this.

yourusernamehere

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2015, 10:34:01 AM »
This looks great! It's been fun seeing your mock ups evolve.

Melody

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Re: Could you live in a room this size...
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2015, 05:51:46 PM »
So happy to see the marine bathroom idea worked :-) Love the more modern colour scheme. I second the poster who mentioned the footboard being a bad idea... If you don't have a couch you will find yourself sitting on the end of the bed etc.  The other option with this is if you make it pretty you could make this the air b n b option. I would happily stay in something like this if it was priced similarly to a double in a hostel. What country are you in?