Coronavirus preparedness

[Metalcat]

@wenchsenior, I'm curious if your step FIL changed his anti-mask opinion at any time during his illness or expressed any regret.  I've heard several stories of people on their deathbed still refusing to believe they have Covid.  I guess the saying is true, that there is none so blind as he who will not see.  (Sorry for your loss, regardless.)

I'm not familiar with the current rates in Texas, but here in Canada, where rates are pretty low and vaccination rates pretty high, several provinces are dropping all restrictions, which I think is premature, given the uncertainty with the variants.  I suspect it will be a more relaxed summer, but then some restrictions will be re-implemented in fall once rates start to rise again.  It seems that we have enough anti-vaxxers and people that just couldn't be bothered to not achieve herd immunity, which is now set at 85-90% due to the variants.  My only hope is that once people see the risk that they are taking, as lately the only hospitalizations and death in my province have been with the unvaccinated, that will change.

Dropping all restrictions? I haven't heard that, but I'm in Ontario and we still can't even go into restaurants yet.

Wait three days and we'll be pretty darned close.
- Indoor gatherings up to 25 people (exception for religious services and ceremonies like weddings/funerals which have no maximums)
- Outdoor social gatherings and events of up to 100 people
Larger religious services and other ceremonies like weddings and funerals can happen indoors with physical distancing measures in place.
- Indoor dining with no limits on the numbers of people
- Nightclubs opening to 25% capacity
- Indoor sporting events opening to 50% capacity (75% capacity if they're outdoors)
- Fully open retail
etc.

But still requiring social distancing and masks, right?

[GuitarStv]

@wenchsenior, I'm curious if your step FIL changed his anti-mask opinion at any time during his illness or expressed any regret.  I've heard several stories of people on their deathbed still refusing to believe they have Covid.  I guess the saying is true, that there is none so blind as he who will not see.  (Sorry for your loss, regardless.)

I'm not familiar with the current rates in Texas, but here in Canada, where rates are pretty low and vaccination rates pretty high, several provinces are dropping all restrictions, which I think is premature, given the uncertainty with the variants.  I suspect it will be a more relaxed summer, but then some restrictions will be re-implemented in fall once rates start to rise again.  It seems that we have enough anti-vaxxers and people that just couldn't be bothered to not achieve herd immunity, which is now set at 85-90% due to the variants.  My only hope is that once people see the risk that they are taking, as lately the only hospitalizations and death in my province have been with the unvaccinated, that will change.

Dropping all restrictions? I haven't heard that, but I'm in Ontario and we still can't even go into restaurants yet.

Wait three days and we'll be pretty darned close.
- Indoor gatherings up to 25 people (exception for religious services and ceremonies like weddings/funerals which have no maximums)
- Outdoor social gatherings and events of up to 100 people
Larger religious services and other ceremonies like weddings and funerals can happen indoors with physical distancing measures in place.
- Indoor dining with no limits on the numbers of people
- Nightclubs opening to 25% capacity
- Indoor sporting events opening to 50% capacity (75% capacity if they're outdoors)
- Fully open retail
etc.

But still requiring social distancing and masks, right?

I think so?  Federally they've said that there's no reason to wear masks if you're fully vaccinated, but the Ontario rules appear to require that business owners enforce mask wearing in all cases.  Of course, there's no enforcement of that rule by most businesses . . . so I expect that it will become more and more spotty.

[Metalcat]

@wenchsenior, I'm curious if your step FIL changed his anti-mask opinion at any time during his illness or expressed any regret.  I've heard several stories of people on their deathbed still refusing to believe they have Covid.  I guess the saying is true, that there is none so blind as he who will not see.  (Sorry for your loss, regardless.)

I'm not familiar with the current rates in Texas, but here in Canada, where rates are pretty low and vaccination rates pretty high, several provinces are dropping all restrictions, which I think is premature, given the uncertainty with the variants.  I suspect it will be a more relaxed summer, but then some restrictions will be re-implemented in fall once rates start to rise again.  It seems that we have enough anti-vaxxers and people that just couldn't be bothered to not achieve herd immunity, which is now set at 85-90% due to the variants.  My only hope is that once people see the risk that they are taking, as lately the only hospitalizations and death in my province have been with the unvaccinated, that will change.

Dropping all restrictions? I haven't heard that, but I'm in Ontario and we still can't even go into restaurants yet.

Wait three days and we'll be pretty darned close.
- Indoor gatherings up to 25 people (exception for religious services and ceremonies like weddings/funerals which have no maximums)
- Outdoor social gatherings and events of up to 100 people
Larger religious services and other ceremonies like weddings and funerals can happen indoors with physical distancing measures in place.
- Indoor dining with no limits on the numbers of people
- Nightclubs opening to 25% capacity
- Indoor sporting events opening to 50% capacity (75% capacity if they're outdoors)
- Fully open retail
etc.

But still requiring social distancing and masks, right?

I think so?  Federally they've said that there's no reason to wear masks if you're fully vaccinated, but the Ontario rules appear to require that business owners enforce mask wearing in all cases.  Of course, there's no enforcement of that rule by most businesses . . . so I expect that it will become more and more spotty.

Hmm, it will be interesting to see what happens here. So far everyone is still very masked everywhere, so it will be interesting to see how it looks over the next month.

[SunnyDays]

@wenchsenior, I'm curious if your step FIL changed his anti-mask opinion at any time during his illness or expressed any regret.  I've heard several stories of people on their deathbed still refusing to believe they have Covid.  I guess the saying is true, that there is none so blind as he who will not see.  (Sorry for your loss, regardless.)

I'm not familiar with the current rates in Texas, but here in Canada, where rates are pretty low and vaccination rates pretty high, several provinces are dropping all restrictions, which I think is premature, given the uncertainty with the variants.  I suspect it will be a more relaxed summer, but then some restrictions will be re-implemented in fall once rates start to rise again.  It seems that we have enough anti-vaxxers and people that just couldn't be bothered to not achieve herd immunity, which is now set at 85-90% due to the variants.  My only hope is that once people see the risk that they are taking, as lately the only hospitalizations and death in my province have been with the unvaccinated, that will change.

Dropping all restrictions? I haven't heard that, but I'm in Ontario and we still can't even go into restaurants yet.

Alberta has dropped most restrictions, even masking (except in care homes or public transit).  Not sure about the distancing.  There are no longer restrictions against gatherings of any size, anywhere.  Jason Kenny was on TV crowing about the province being the first in Canada to open up.  We'll see if that comes back to bite him later.

I think Saskatchewan has taken a similar road.

[Stashasaurus]

Yes we have. Mask mandate is gone. No restrictions on gatherings as of 2021-07-11. Some businesses have not changed their policies, ie masks are required in their store, but most have.

[dougules]

Down here masks have all but disappeared despite only 1/3 of the population being fully vaccinated in this state.   COVID cases are the lowest they've been since the beginning of the pandemic, but it's the middle of the summer, and the delta variant isn't that common here yet.   I hope it stays quiet, but honestly I will be very surprised if we make it to next spring without another serious wave. 

[HPstache]

Haven't worn a mask in over a month

[dougules]

Haven't worn a mask in over a month

I haven't either, but that's how long I've been fully vaccinated. 

[SotI]

Being in the low risk/low priority group in the region I live in, I have not yet been vaccinated, so I am still very careful about social distancing and masking. Fortunately, incidents are low here (still) and we are not expected to return to office regularly before September.
Hopefully, vaccination will be resolved by then (been hoping for J&J but not so sure if they are not pulling the vector vaccines at all here based on the reported side effects).

I am closely following the developments in the UK.
And I find the DrBeen Medical Lectures on Youtube quite comprehensible regarding the immunological processes in the body, his drawings are quite memorable.

[Freedomin5]

Haven't worn a mask in over a month

I haven't either, but that's how long I've been fully vaccinated.

That seems rather irresponsible to me, especially given frugaldrummer’s post above, in particular, this quote:

Yes, if you are vaccinated, your personal risk of dying from Covid is quite low. Over 99% of Covid deaths right now are in the unvaccinated (vaccines work!!!).  But you have at least a 10% risk of developing an asymptomatic or mild case of Covid, which you could then transmit to other vulnerable people, like the un-vaccinated (including children) or immunocompromised. (Possibly a higher risk, based on recent data out of Israel). So to protect OTHERS and to speed reaching herd immunity, I still recommend mask wearing if you are indoors in public (like the grocery store, movie theaters etc. ) . Outdoors is probably safe to be unmasked if you’re not in a tight crowd.

I think it continues to make sense to mask up when in crowded public places, if only to protect those who are weaker or in a more susceptible cohort than I. We try to teach our children to be empathetic and develop executive-functioning skills including perspective-taking skills, we claim teamwork and prosocial skills contribute to happier people and better leadership skills which help us in our careers, we expect others to see our point of view, but sometimes, it looks like our actions are inconsistent with our words.

[HPstache]

Haven't worn a mask in over a month

I haven't either, but that's how long I've been fully vaccinated.

That seems rather irresponsible to me, especially given frugaldrummer’s post above, in particular, this quote:

Yes, if you are vaccinated, your personal risk of dying from Covid is quite low. Over 99% of Covid deaths right now are in the unvaccinated (vaccines work!!!).  But you have at least a 10% risk of developing an asymptomatic or mild case of Covid, which you could then transmit to other vulnerable people, like the un-vaccinated (including children) or immunocompromised. (Possibly a higher risk, based on recent data out of Israel). So to protect OTHERS and to speed reaching herd immunity, I still recommend mask wearing if you are indoors in public (like the grocery store, movie theaters etc. ) . Outdoors is probably safe to be unmasked if you’re not in a tight crowd.

I’m still choosing to mask up when in crowded public places, if only to protect those who are weaker or in a more susceptible cohort than I. We try to teach our children to be empathetic and develop executive-functioning skills including perspective-taking skills, we claim teamwork and prosocial skills contribute to happier people and better leadership skills which help us in our careers, we expect others to see our point of view, but sometimes, it looks like our actions are inconsistent with our words.

Me (fully vaccinated for well over a month now) = not concerned about 10% chance of asymptomatic / mild case of covid or small chance of long term effects... essentially assuming it will happen at some point in my lifetime.  Even some of the the most diligent people I know contracted covid during this pandemic.  Curve is flat, hospitals are not overrun.

Children = not at any appreciable amount of risk compared to many other things in life (have 3 children of my own).  Curve is flat, hospitals are not overrun.

Immunocompromised = nothing has changed, had to take personal precautions and risk assess pre-covid for a multitude of diseases.  Even after herd immunity, nothing will change as there will still be a risk of developing COVID or some form of it for the rest of their lives.  I do have empathy for these people, life has been and will be hard for them, but fully vaccinated people running around the rest of their lives pretending like they MIGHT be sick in the name of protecting others is just silly. Curve is flat, hospitals are not overrun.

People who choose not to be vaccinated = their choice, their risk.  Let them get sick, the curve is flattened and our hospitals are not overrun.

I believe in the science of vaccines and choose not wear a mask unless required by law (medical facilities, public transport, etc.) .

[elaine amj]

We are all now fully vaccinated and case counts are very low in our region of Ontario. I've been staying on top news and studies to continue assessing our risks to determine what is safe for us to do. Our houshold is fairly high risk. That said, from everything I can see, I do feel a decent amount of trust in the vaccine.

I am generally comfortable in outdoor spaces, we've been dining on patios and am considering indoor dining when they reopen in a few days. I have been in close contact indoors with several others outside my bubble. I have also been in semi-close contact outdoors with a few unvaccinated friends and given local case counts are in the single digits, I am thinking of spending time with them indoors in the near future.

Still deciding just how many people we feel comfortable being exposed to. A couple of weeks ago, we were at a backyard party that was supposed to be for a dozen ppl where neighbors unexpectedly increased the numbers to 30-40ppl. I was polite and had short chats with a few people and then kept my distance, only spending my time with the original group. On the other hand, my 72yr old mother excitedly talked at length to anyone and everyone.

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

[Shane]

As we are all fully vaccinated, my immediate family and I don't wear masks anymore, unless required to by law, e.g., on a plane. Totally understand and empathize with people who can't get vaccinated, as we have a close relative who recently underwent transplant surgery. As others have pointed out, though, transplant patients were at great personal risk of contracting any and all diseases before covid, and they will continue to be at risk from colds, flus, etc, long after covid is no longer a mainstream concern. As far as kids under 12 goes, they are at about the same risk from covid as they are from the common yearly flu. Recently, we've gone back to eating inside restaurants, drinking beer in neigborhood brew pubs, going to movies, and generally living our lives as normal. It feels great that the world is finally coming back! Sorry, but I give exactly zero fucks if the anti-vaxxers get sick from Covid. They deserve it. Anti-vaxxers are choosing not only to put themselves at risk from covid, but they are also responsible for dragging the pandemic out, completely unnecessarily. We have friends who live in Europe and some in 3rd World countries, who would LOVE to get vaccinated, but can't, because either their country is too poor to afford sufficient vaccine doses, or they are not yet eligible, because of their age, risk factors, etc. Where we live, anyone 12 years of age or older can get a dose of one of the covid vaccines TODAY, no questions asked. People who are choosing not to take advantage of the great privilege we have here in the US to get free covid vaccinations are totally on their own, as far as I'm concerned.

[HMman]

@wenchsenior, I'm curious if your step FIL changed his anti-mask opinion at any time during his illness or expressed any regret.  I've heard several stories of people on their deathbed still refusing to believe they have Covid.  I guess the saying is true, that there is none so blind as he who will not see.  (Sorry for your loss, regardless.)

I'm not familiar with the current rates in Texas, but here in Canada, where rates are pretty low and vaccination rates pretty high, several provinces are dropping all restrictions, which I think is premature, given the uncertainty with the variants.  I suspect it will be a more relaxed summer, but then some restrictions will be re-implemented in fall once rates start to rise again.  It seems that we have enough anti-vaxxers and people that just couldn't be bothered to not achieve herd immunity, which is now set at 85-90% due to the variants.  My only hope is that once people see the risk that they are taking, as lately the only hospitalizations and death in my province have been with the unvaccinated, that will change.

Dropping all restrictions? I haven't heard that, but I'm in Ontario and we still can't even go into restaurants yet.

Alberta has dropped most restrictions, even masking (except in care homes or public transit).  Not sure about the distancing.  There are no longer restrictions against gatherings of any size, anywhere.  Jason Kenny was on TV crowing about the province being the first in Canada to open up.  We'll see if that comes back to bite him later.

I think Saskatchewan has taken a similar road.

Slight thread derail, but the next few weeks will be interesting to watch here, as that will be when we start to see if the Stampede-motivated re-openings caused a lot of spread. I'm about 55% sure the provincial opening strategy was determined by working backwards from the Calgary Stampede date, as opposed to public health considerations... It's frustrating that our premier pushed the opening up of Alberta while we're still in the thick of getting the second doses out - if he had even waited another couple of months, we'd be in a much stronger position to be loosening restrictions.

As far as kids under 12 goes, they are at MUCH greater risk from the common yearly flu than they are from covid.

This doesn't pass the smell test for me. Looking at the most recent Canadian data before the pandemic, we had 1352 pediatric (age < 16) hospitalized flu cases, which was a bit higher than the 5-year average of 888. Of these, there were 271 ICU admissions and 10 deaths. (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/fluwatch/2018-2019/annual-report.html) For the COVID epidemic in the age < 19 group, we've had 1374 hospitalizations, 163 ICU admissions, and 14 deaths as of July 9. (https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html) Considering that, over the same time frame, incidences of the flu have been negligible, this would seem to suggest that COVID is much more dangerous - even with all the measures taken, hospitalizations, deaths, and ICU admissions have been roughly the same as a flu season where there was no masking, distancing, etc.

[Shane]

In this NPR interview they say kids are at about as much risk from covid as they are from the yearly flu, i.e., not much. Can't find it now, but read somewhere else that 4X the number of "children" die from the flu in a normal year as died from covid in 2020. That statistic may or may not have been accurate, but since I can't find the original article, I edited my earlier post. Pretty sure, risk depends greatly on how you define "children". Twelve to sixteen year olds are already eligible for vaccination. So, we're only really talking about "children" 0-11 years old, who are at risk, however small, from covid, but still can't get vaccinated. I've read that infants are at greater risk from covid than the flu, which doesn't seem that surprising. Even though an infant and a 17 year old are both "children" as far as the law is concerned, it seems kind of dumb to lump babies and teenagers into the same category, when discussing their response to a disease.

From the NPR interview linked above:

"HARRIS: In children, at least, the risk of serious consequences for COVID is about the same as the risk they face from the flu, she says. But many parents seem more worried about the new and less familiar disease. That anxiety is heightened with new guidelines around mask-wearing. Gretchen Chapman studies health conundrums like this at Carnegie Mellon University.

GRETCHEN CHAPMAN: If you stop going into stores because you're terrified that you'll run into an unmasked person, that's probably overreacting.

HARRIS: It's understandable why parents would feel that way, she says. Though these risks are very low, they are not zero, and people struggle to conceptualize the difference between small risks - say, something that's one in a thousand versus one in a million."

[StashingAway]

This doesn't pass the smell test for me. Looking at the most recent Canadian data before the pandemic, we had 1352 pediatric (age < 16) hospitalized flu cases, which was a bit higher than the 5-year average of 888. Of these, there were 271 ICU admissions and 10 deaths. (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/fluwatch/2018-2019/annual-report.html) For the COVID epidemic in the age < 19 group, we've had 1374 hospitalizations, 163 ICU admissions, and 14 deaths as of July 9. (https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html) Considering that, over the same time frame, incidences of the flu have been negligible, this would seem to suggest that COVID is much more dangerous - even with all the measures taken, hospitalizations, deaths, and ICU admissions have been roughly the same as a flu season where there was no masking, distancing, etc.

The possibility that you haven't added to the equation is the transmissibility of the disease. That data doesn't rule out the possibility, for example, that 5x as many kids got covid than the average flu season, yet it is 1/5 as deadly.

Although I do concede that from a "smell test" standpoint, I wouldn't put any money on it being less deadly than the flu for kids.

[Cranky]

I have friends who took their 11yo to Disney at the beginning of the month. He got a cold. They flew home. Parents got sick and both have tested positive. Both parents were fully vaccinated and both are sick enough to feel pretty regretful.

We’re wearing masks in the stores, but we are going into stores, so that’s something.

[GuitarStv]

I have friends who took their 11yo to Disney at the beginning of the month. He got a cold. They flew home. Parents got sick and both have tested positive. Both parents were fully vaccinated and both are sick enough to feel pretty regretful.

We’re wearing masks in the stores, but we are going into stores, so that’s something.

Yeah, the shot does a really good job at preventing covid from killing you.  It doesn't stop you from getting sick or passing it on to others.  I feel like the messaging around this has been poor.

[HMman]

This doesn't pass the smell test for me. Looking at the most recent Canadian data before the pandemic, we had 1352 pediatric (age < 16) hospitalized flu cases, which was a bit higher than the 5-year average of 888. Of these, there were 271 ICU admissions and 10 deaths. (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/fluwatch/2018-2019/annual-report.html) For the COVID epidemic in the age < 19 group, we've had 1374 hospitalizations, 163 ICU admissions, and 14 deaths as of July 9. (https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html) Considering that, over the same time frame, incidences of the flu have been negligible, this would seem to suggest that COVID is much more dangerous - even with all the measures taken, hospitalizations, deaths, and ICU admissions have been roughly the same as a flu season where there was no masking, distancing, etc.

The possibility that you haven't added to the equation is the transmissibility of the disease. That data doesn't rule out the possibility, for example, that 5x as many kids got covid than the average flu season, yet it is 1/5 as deadly.

Although I do concede that from a "smell test" standpoint, I wouldn't put any money on it being less deadly than the flu for kids.

That's a very good point, and exactly what I meant by the last sentence! The measures taken to curb COVID have crushed flu cases to practically nothing (in Canada/US, at least; I don't know about others) - in the meantime, COVID has been about as deadly for the young age group as a typical flu season. We essentially ran both of them at the same time, and COVID came out way on top primarily because it's so much more transmissible. If you're much more likely to be exposed to COVID due to higher transmissibility, and the risk of the actual exposure is about the same as the flu (as in @Shane's NPR source), the overall risk of COVID >> overall risk of the flu.

[GuitarStv]

This doesn't pass the smell test for me. Looking at the most recent Canadian data before the pandemic, we had 1352 pediatric (age < 16) hospitalized flu cases, which was a bit higher than the 5-year average of 888. Of these, there were 271 ICU admissions and 10 deaths. (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/fluwatch/2018-2019/annual-report.html) For the COVID epidemic in the age < 19 group, we've had 1374 hospitalizations, 163 ICU admissions, and 14 deaths as of July 9. (https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html) Considering that, over the same time frame, incidences of the flu have been negligible, this would seem to suggest that COVID is much more dangerous - even with all the measures taken, hospitalizations, deaths, and ICU admissions have been roughly the same as a flu season where there was no masking, distancing, etc.

The possibility that you haven't added to the equation is the transmissibility of the disease. That data doesn't rule out the possibility, for example, that 5x as many kids got covid than the average flu season, yet it is 1/5 as deadly.

Although I do concede that from a "smell test" standpoint, I wouldn't put any money on it being less deadly than the flu for kids.

That's a very good point, and exactly what I meant by the last sentence! The measures taken to curb COVID have crushed flu cases to practically nothing (in Canada/US, at least; I don't know about others) - in the meantime, COVID has been about as deadly for the young age group as a typical flu season. We essentially ran both of them at the same time, and COVID came out way on top primarily because it's so much more transmissible. If you're much more likely to be exposed to COVID due to higher transmissibility, and the risk of the actual exposure is about the same as the flu (as in @Shane's NPR source), the overall risk of COVID >> overall risk of the flu.

There's also the fact that 2020 wasn't remotely close to being a normal year for most kids.  My son spent about 1/4 (maybe 1/3rd) of last year doing in person classes, and rarely was playing with other children . . . I'd assume that many people limited the exposure their children would have in a similar manner.  This behaviour completely eliminated the flu season.  That covid was still posting numbers at or higher than average for a regular flu year despite the situation seems like pretty good evidence that the disease is much more dangerous that the flu.

[jrhampt]

I've been fully vaccinated since early May and I live in the most highly vaccinated county in a highly vaccinated state (69% of total pop in CT w at least one dose and 62% fully vaccinated).  Our case numbers are very low and have not begun to rise yet.  We have had fewer than 100 people in hospital w covid statewide for several weeks now and test positive rates less than 1%.  I work from home, all my friends and family in state are vaccinated, and although I mostly still eat outdoors when I go to restaurants, I finally went back to the Y this week.  I've gained some weight over the pandemic even though I have continued to work out at home, and I think the risk at this point is low enough that I'm willing to take it at least over the summer as long as our numbers stay very low.  I've really missed the gym but I am aware that it is a higher risk activity and they are not requiring masks or proof of vaccination.  I'm not seeing very many masks when I do go to the grocery store etc., mostly on younger kids who can't be vaccinated yet.  Some restaurants continue a policy of staff wearing masks in order to protect them and also to make customers feel comfortable. 

My parents continue to be unvaccinated (south, evangelical) and high risk, so I will continue not to see them for the foreseeable future.

[FrugalFan]

This doesn't pass the smell test for me. Looking at the most recent Canadian data before the pandemic, we had 1352 pediatric (age < 16) hospitalized flu cases, which was a bit higher than the 5-year average of 888. Of these, there were 271 ICU admissions and 10 deaths. (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/fluwatch/2018-2019/annual-report.html) For the COVID epidemic in the age < 19 group, we've had 1374 hospitalizations, 163 ICU admissions, and 14 deaths as of July 9. (https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html) Considering that, over the same time frame, incidences of the flu have been negligible, this would seem to suggest that COVID is much more dangerous - even with all the measures taken, hospitalizations, deaths, and ICU admissions have been roughly the same as a flu season where there was no masking, distancing, etc.

The possibility that you haven't added to the equation is the transmissibility of the disease. That data doesn't rule out the possibility, for example, that 5x as many kids got covid than the average flu season, yet it is 1/5 as deadly.

Although I do concede that from a "smell test" standpoint, I wouldn't put any money on it being less deadly than the flu for kids.

That's a very good point, and exactly what I meant by the last sentence! The measures taken to curb COVID have crushed flu cases to practically nothing (in Canada/US, at least; I don't know about others) - in the meantime, COVID has been about as deadly for the young age group as a typical flu season. We essentially ran both of them at the same time, and COVID came out way on top primarily because it's so much more transmissible. If you're much more likely to be exposed to COVID due to higher transmissibility, and the risk of the actual exposure is about the same as the flu (as in @Shane's NPR source), the overall risk of COVID >> overall risk of the flu.

Yes! It makes me crazy when people quote the flu thing. 1. The flu is not as easily transmissible. If there was a crazy high flu season where hundreds of people per town were getting very sick and hospitalized with the flu and dozens getting sick in schools, I would be reacting the same way as I have been with COVID to protect our family. My daughter had double-pneumonia from a bad flu (came early that year before we could get our yearly shot) and I have been completely out for a week due to the flu. Nothing to mess with either. 2. Most of the data available is from the original variant or Alpha. Delta seems to be about twice as deadly.

[Freedomin5]

I have friends who took their 11yo to Disney at the beginning of the month. He got a cold. They flew home. Parents got sick and both have tested positive. Both parents were fully vaccinated and both are sick enough to feel pretty regretful.

We’re wearing masks in the stores, but we are going into stores, so that’s something.

Yeah, the shot does a really good job at preventing covid from killing you.  It doesn't stop you from getting sick or passing it on to others.  I feel like the messaging around this has been poor.

+1  I think this point bears repeating.

[Omy]

I'm pushing 60 and don't know anybody who has died from the flu - or who has chronic health problems because of a past bout with the flu. In the past 16 months, I personally know 4 people who've died from covid 19 and 7 who are currently experiencing long covid symptoms.

This is much worse than the flu.

[Shane]

For adults, yeah, but not necessarily for children in the 0-11 year old age range. Adults can all get vaccinated now, so they're at little risk. Little kids are the only ones who can't get vaccinated. Luckily, they're at very little risk from covid, because they're kids.

[FLBiker]

I have friends who took their 11yo to Disney at the beginning of the month. He got a cold. They flew home. Parents got sick and both have tested positive. Both parents were fully vaccinated and both are sick enough to feel pretty regretful.

We’re wearing masks in the stores, but we are going into stores, so that’s something.

Yeah, the shot does a really good job at preventing covid from killing you.  It doesn't stop you from getting sick or passing it on to others.  I feel like the messaging around this has been poor.

+1  I think this point bears repeating.

Agreed.  We're fully vaccinated, our daughter (6) isn't.  We live in Nova Scotia (which has handled COVID very well) and had been planning to have my (fully vaccinated) dad visit next month from Missouri (which is handling COVID very poorly).  He decided yesterday not to come, because he didn't want to risk being a vector for our daughter.  He's a doctor.  I hadn't done a lot of research (as we're not planning any trips) but I did some reading afterwards and this is definitely a risk I wasn't aware of.  And it also seems like, despite typically not having acute symptoms, some kids have long term consequences from COVID.  We're staying put until either she's vaccinated or other areas are under control.  Fortunately, we're comfortable going out and about in Nova Scotia, which helps.  Folks here still where masks indoors, etc., despite the fact that we are currently having just like a case or two a day.

[StarBright]

Back in January, when vaccines started becoming available, we took a chance and booked a large-ish vacation (our first in several years). We figured waiting until the end of the summer would give ample time to for most people to get their vaccines.

Now we are afraid that we've booked the trip for too late and I'm starting to wonder if we should cancel due to rapid Delta spread. We are both vaccinated, but our kids are too young.

Vaccination rates are pretty high in our county (and covid rates extremely low averaging less than 1 infection a day for the last several weeks) and rates are even better at our vacation destination - but I'm wondering if I should be worried about the air travel in between?

I know masks are required at airports and on planes - but what do you do if you have a belligerent mask refuser on a multi-hour flight?

Grrrr- I wish people would just get vaccinated.

[elaine amj]

I'm really trying to sift through everything to figure out and assess the risks personally to us now that we are all fully vaccinated. The 3 of us in my household are all higher risk, which has made us more cautious.

From what I can tell, the vaccines offer very good protection. Lots of promising data showing it does reduce risk of infection and transmission. Of course, there is still a risk so it is true, even fully vaxxed need to guard against transmitting to the unvaxxed.

Snippets from latest reports from Public Health England (this is Alpha variant so Delta numbers are likely a little worse).



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000512/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_27.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjAp9Skq-XxAhWtdd8KHfmLBiwQFjAKegQIHBAC&usg=AOvVaw3IyaP_uyAtSUK9uaFH08T3&cshid=1626361978430

For us, I have to balance the risks against keeping us locked up forever. My family is fed up not getting to go grocery shopping lol. And we all want to see ppl outside our household after 6 months of pretty strict isolation. Everything is a risk. Right now we are cautiously interacting with people again.

Outdoor interactions are way less risky so that's what I am focusing on first.

I continue following studies closely to see what other things we can do safely. I am dreaming of crowds and big parties again. But not yet. In a wait and see mode for now.

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[Mr. Green]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/563052-8-vaccinated-health-care-workers-get-covid-19-at-pool-party-in-las-vegas

An interesting article. 11 people working at the same medical center all got COVID at a pool party. 8 of them were fully vaccinated. 10 of the 11 were confirmed to have been infected with the Delta variant. The cluster was so unusual that medical professionals reexamined the data for the batch of vaccine those 8 employees received to make sure it wasn't mishandled, since breakthroughs are supposed to be much rarer than that. 8 fully vaccinated people being infected at one party is startling. Odds are something weird happened there. However I'm starting to see more examples of fully vaccinated people contracting the Delta variant creeping into the news. It could just be fearmongering or clickbait but it's giving me pause about spending extended time indoors without a mask, even fully vaccinated. Especially now that masks have disappeared. Virtually no one is masking anymore in any of the places we've been.

It will be interesting to see what more data shows in this regard, as Delta trends toward the exclusive strain in the us.

[c-kat]

@wenchsenior, I'm curious if your step FIL changed his anti-mask opinion at any time during his illness or expressed any regret.  I've heard several stories of people on their deathbed still refusing to believe they have Covid.  I guess the saying is true, that there is none so blind as he who will not see.  (Sorry for your loss, regardless.)

I'm not familiar with the current rates in Texas, but here in Canada, where rates are pretty low and vaccination rates pretty high, several provinces are dropping all restrictions, which I think is premature, given the uncertainty with the variants.  I suspect it will be a more relaxed summer, but then some restrictions will be re-implemented in fall once rates start to rise again.  It seems that we have enough anti-vaxxers and people that just couldn't be bothered to not achieve herd immunity, which is now set at 85-90% due to the variants.  My only hope is that once people see the risk that they are taking, as lately the only hospitalizations and death in my province have been with the unvaccinated, that will change.

Dropping all restrictions? I haven't heard that, but I'm in Ontario and we still can't even go into restaurants yet.

Wait three days and we'll be pretty darned close.
- Indoor gatherings up to 25 people (exception for religious services and ceremonies like weddings/funerals which have no maximums)
- Outdoor social gatherings and events of up to 100 people
Larger religious services and other ceremonies like weddings and funerals can happen indoors with physical distancing measures in place.
- Indoor dining with no limits on the numbers of people
- Nightclubs opening to 25% capacity
- Indoor sporting events opening to 50% capacity (75% capacity if they're outdoors)
- Fully open retail
etc.

But still requiring social distancing and masks, right?

I think so?  Federally they've said that there's no reason to wear masks if you're fully vaccinated, but the Ontario rules appear to require that business owners enforce mask wearing in all cases.  Of course, there's no enforcement of that rule by most businesses . . . so I expect that it will become more and more spotty.

Hmm, it will be interesting to see what happens here. So far everyone is still very masked everywhere, so it will be interesting to see how it looks over the next month.

I'm in Ontario and finding less and less people are wearing masks. I find it concerning because you can still get and transmit the virus even if fully vaccinated, and kids under 12 are not able to get the vaccine yet.  I have a 4 year old starting kindergarden in september and am worried about it.

[elaine amj]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/563052-8-vaccinated-health-care-workers-get-covid-19-at-pool-party-in-las-vegas

An interesting article. 11 people working at the same medical center all got COVID at a pool party. 8 of them were fully vaccinated. 10 of the 11 were confirmed to have been infected with the Delta variant. The cluster was so unusual that medical professionals reexamined the data for the batch of vaccine those 8 employees received to make sure it wasn't mishandled, since breakthroughs are supposed to be much rarer than that. 8 fully vaccinated people being infected at one party is startling. Odds are something weird happened there. However I'm starting to see more examples of fully vaccinated people contracting the Delta variant creeping into the news. It could just be fearmongering or clickbait but it's giving me pause about spending extended time indoors without a mask, even fully vaccinated. Especially now that masks have disappeared. Virtually no one is masking anymore in any of the places we've been.

It will be interesting to see what more data shows in this regard, as Delta trends toward the exclusive strain in the us.

Rather alarming article. 

I am starting to wonder about superspreaders. It seems every once in a while u hear of someone spreading covid to a large number of others while Joe down the street only managed to infect a few ppl.

What is it about these superspreaders that makes them more contagious? Are they more huggy? Are they producing more snot? Do they spit when they talk?

Maybe it is one of these superspreaders that caused so many breakthrough infections.

It's certainly concerning when you hear of breakthrough infections. So I keep comforting myself with statistics and follow various mathematicians who explain risk and the stats in ways more easy for me to understand. I often find myself confused when trying to understand if we're talking about the risk of 1 in a million vs 1 in a thousand.

Don't know if I am explaining myself well. Sometimes I look at numbers and the risk looks really high. Then I read the explanation by a mathematician who puts it into context and then I learn the risk is far lower than what I gathered reading the raw numbers.

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[Freedomin5]

I'm in Ontario and finding less and less people are wearing masks. I find it concerning because you can still get and transmit the virus even if fully vaccinated, and kids under 12 are not able to get the vaccine yet.  I have a 4 year old starting kindergarden in september and am worried about it.

I had a kid in Kindergarten last last year during COVID, and I helped out at her school when it reopened. I’m in China, so there were very strict rules about social distancing in the classroom and mask-wearing. Even with very vigilant teachers and frequent checks by the CDC, it’s hard getting four and five year olds to keep their masks on in class and to keep their hands away from their face, and to prevent them from getting too close to each other.

We can’t prevent other people from doing what they want, but we can make sure we do what we can to keep ourselves safe and not be part of the problem.

For us, that meant that every morning, DD got a reminder to keep her mask on and to use hand sanitizer before and after every activity. We practiced sticking our arms out to our side to practice social distancing (your hands should not touch anyone else’s). We talked to her teacher about keeping her 1 meter away from others (she gets to sit on a chair at the back of the carpet and not in the middle of the carpet with everyone else), etc.

We currently have zero cases here, but even with no active COVID, we are still told to stay vigilant — masks, avoid crowded places, etc. Social distancing and not being in crowded places has kind of fallen to the wayside, but masks remain common.

[LaineyAZ]

In the meantime, here in Arizona we now have a law that bans public schools and universities from enforcing mask mandates and Covid-19 testing for unvaccinated students.
Two school districts have a policy to quarantine un-vaxed students who are exposed to Covid-19.  When the governor's office found out they demanded the districts rescind that policy because it is "discrimination" to apply quarantine policies differently for vaccinated and un-vaccinated students. 

So, yeah.  Next wave is definitely coming because here at least we seem to be actively encouraging it.  SMH

[GuitarStv]

In the meantime, here in Arizona we now have a law that bans public schools and universities from enforcing mask mandates and Covid-19 testing for unvaccinated students.
Two school districts have a policy to quarantine un-vaxed students who are exposed to Covid-19.  When the governor's office found out they demanded the districts rescind that policy because it is "discrimination" to apply quarantine policies differently for vaccinated and un-vaccinated students. 

So, yeah.  Next wave is definitely coming because here at least we seem to be actively encouraging it.  SMH

Weird.  Most of the universities around here are requiring proof of vaccination to attend classes.  Most of our universities are private though.  Are your universities government run?  If not, how does the government have the power to interfere in private business choices like that?

[FLBiker]

In the meantime, here in Arizona we now have a law that bans public schools and universities from enforcing mask mandates and Covid-19 testing for unvaccinated students.
Two school districts have a policy to quarantine un-vaxed students who are exposed to Covid-19.  When the governor's office found out they demanded the districts rescind that policy because it is "discrimination" to apply quarantine policies differently for vaccinated and un-vaccinated students. 

So, yeah.  Next wave is definitely coming because here at least we seem to be actively encouraging it.  SMH

Weird.  Most of the universities around here are requiring proof of vaccination to attend classes.  Most of our universities are private though.  Are your universities government run?  If not, how does the government have the power to interfere in private business choices like that?

Same in Florida.  I have worked for the past decade at a state university in Florida, and there is no mask mandate, you can't ask about or require vaccinations, etc.  And it isn't a public / private thing -- Florida has made it illegal for businesses to do things like enforce vaccinations.  (I don't know how you'd enforce vaccinations in America anyways, without a centralized record system, but that's another question.)

For non-COVID reasons, we moved from Florida to Nova Scotia last July, and seeing the tremendous disparity between how these two regions have handled COVID has really confirmed our decision.

[wenchsenior]

In the meantime, here in Arizona we now have a law that bans public schools and universities from enforcing mask mandates and Covid-19 testing for unvaccinated students.
Two school districts have a policy to quarantine un-vaxed students who are exposed to Covid-19.  When the governor's office found out they demanded the districts rescind that policy because it is "discrimination" to apply quarantine policies differently for vaccinated and un-vaccinated students. 

So, yeah.  Next wave is definitely coming because here at least we seem to be actively encouraging it.  SMH

Same over here in Texas.  I just ordered more N95 masks for my husband to wear this fall, cause no one who's a likely carrier will be wearing one.

[Chaplin]

For non-COVID reasons, we moved from Florida to Nova Scotia last July, and seeing the tremendous disparity between how these two regions have handled COVID has really confirmed our decision.

In terms of COVID response, those two are just about polar opposites. It would be interesting to hear any further thoughts you might have about that.

[Imma]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/563052-8-vaccinated-health-care-workers-get-covid-19-at-pool-party-in-las-vegas

An interesting article. 11 people working at the same medical center all got COVID at a pool party. 8 of them were fully vaccinated. 10 of the 11 were confirmed to have been infected with the Delta variant. The cluster was so unusual that medical professionals reexamined the data for the batch of vaccine those 8 employees received to make sure it wasn't mishandled, since breakthroughs are supposed to be much rarer than that. 8 fully vaccinated people being infected at one party is startling. Odds are something weird happened there. However I'm starting to see more examples of fully vaccinated people contracting the Delta variant creeping into the news. It could just be fearmongering or clickbait but it's giving me pause about spending extended time indoors without a mask, even fully vaccinated. Especially now that masks have disappeared. Virtually no one is masking anymore in any of the places we've been.

It will be interesting to see what more data shows in this regard, as Delta trends toward the exclusive strain in the us.

Rather alarming article. 

I am starting to wonder about superspreaders. It seems every once in a while u hear of someone spreading covid to a large number of others while Joe down the street only managed to infect a few ppl.

What is it about these superspreaders that makes them more contagious? Are they more huggy? Are they producing more snot? Do they spit when they talk?

Maybe it is one of these superspreaders that caused so many breakthrough infections.

It's certainly concerning when you hear of breakthrough infections. So I keep comforting myself with statistics and follow various mathematicians who explain risk and the stats in ways more easy for me to understand. I often find myself confused when trying to understand if we're talking about the risk of 1 in a million vs 1 in a thousand.

Don't know if I am explaining myself well. Sometimes I look at numbers and the risk looks really high. Then I read the explanation by a mathematician who puts it into context and then I learn the risk is far lower than what I gathered reading the raw numbers.

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

My friend was apparantly a superspreader. They had no symptoms, at all, but people around them kept getting sick. Turns out they had a very high viral count, no symptoms, they had probably been infected for a while and it took some time for them to test negative. So it seems their body wasn't able to get rid of the virus for a long time, but being asymptomatic they had no idea.

[LaineyAZ]

In the meantime, here in Arizona we now have a law that bans public schools and universities from enforcing mask mandates and Covid-19 testing for unvaccinated students.
Two school districts have a policy to quarantine un-vaxed students who are exposed to Covid-19.  When the governor's office found out they demanded the districts rescind that policy because it is "discrimination" to apply quarantine policies differently for vaccinated and un-vaccinated students. 

So, yeah.  Next wave is definitely coming because here at least we seem to be actively encouraging it.  SMH

Weird.  Most of the universities around here are requiring proof of vaccination to attend classes.  Most of our universities are private though.  Are your universities government run?  If not, how does the government have the power to interfere in private business choices like that?

Yes, there are 3 major state universities and many private smaller ones.
 
I believe private businesses can still dictate and enforce their own Covid-19 policies. 
One example is that almost all medical and dental places still require masks and many are still doing temperature checks.  But retail stores and supermarkets are just keeping carts clean and posting new signs asking un-vaxed customers to please wear a mask - that's about it.

The major cities and counties are trying to enact more restrictive measures - following the guidelines of health officials - and the state legislature and governor are stomping all over those efforts.  Funny because they usually crow about "getting the government to leave us the hell alone"  [see federal rep Lauren Boebert at CPAC this year] but if local communities want to do something different about Covid-19 the Republican-led state government will forbid it.

[TomTX]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/563052-8-vaccinated-health-care-workers-get-covid-19-at-pool-party-in-las-vegas

An interesting article. 11 people working at the same medical center all got COVID at a pool party. 8 of them were fully vaccinated. 10 of the 11 were confirmed to have been infected with the Delta variant. The cluster was so unusual that medical professionals reexamined the data for the batch of vaccine those 8 employees received to make sure it wasn't mishandled, since breakthroughs are supposed to be much rarer than that. 8 fully vaccinated people being infected at one party is startling. Odds are something weird happened there. However I'm starting to see more examples of fully vaccinated people contracting the Delta variant creeping into the news. It could just be fearmongering or clickbait but it's giving me pause about spending extended time indoors without a mask, even fully vaccinated. Especially now that masks have disappeared. Virtually no one is masking anymore in any of the places we've been.

It will be interesting to see what more data shows in this regard, as Delta trends toward the exclusive strain in the us.

So, earlier I read a scientific article about a recent Delta outbreak in China where 167 were infected. They 100% contact traced everyone.

Two things that really stood out:

• Symptomatic infection was much faster than earlier variants.
  
  
• Viral load was approximately 1000x higher at initial testing. Not 1000%. 1000x.
  

We've known for awhile that transmission of COVID is highly exposure dependent - which is why air circulation is so important, to keep the viral concentrations low.  Outdoors had very low transmission rates. If the infected person has 1000x as much virus in their system, I would expect them to have massively higher viral shedding rates and thus provides a plausible mechanism for how Delta is more effective at spreading.

https://virological.org/t/viral-infection-and-transmission-in-a-large-well-traced-outbreak-caused-by-the-delta-sars-cov-2-variant/724

[Abe]

Makes sense. The patients in that study were probably not vaccinated as China does not have an effective vaccine yet. Breakthrough infections are slightly more common with the delta variant (and clearly more common if a person hasn’t been fully vaccinated). The mRNA vaccines are 85-90% effective vs the 95%+ for other strains. However there is a big drop in efficacy for delta in people who’ve had only one dose (33% vs 60%+ for other strains). The articles together suggest that unvaccinated people produce such a high viral load that when they contaminate a vaccinated person, the immune system cannot fully prevent attachment and replication of all viral particles.

[former player]

Almost all the infection in the UK is delta variant.

We have 67% of total population fully vaccinated, 87% fully vaccinated, and yet infections are increasing by 40% in a week and on the same trajectory as the Jan/Feb peak.

The real benefit of vaccination is not in stopping infections, even at high levels of vaccination, it's in stopping most of the deaths and a significant number of hospitalisations.  I don't think there's much evidence yet of vaccination effects in relation to long covid or permanent organ damage.

[OtherJen]

Almost all the infection in the UK is delta variant.

We have 67% of total population fully vaccinated, 87% fully vaccinated, and yet infections are increasing by 40% in a week and on the same trajectory as the Jan/Feb peak.

The real benefit of vaccination is not in stopping infections, even at high levels of vaccination, it's in stopping most of the deaths and a significant number of hospitalisations.  I don't think there's much evidence yet of vaccination effects in relation to long covid or permanent organ damage.

It's scary. Three of my colleagues are in England, and they're all too young to have been able to receive more than one vaccine dose (not for lack of desire to be fully vaccinated). I'm really worried about them and so many others, especially as Johnson et al. seem to have pretty much given up trying to implement any public health controls. Please be careful.

Meanwhile, you have idiots here in the US turning down free vaccines, and even some medical professionals (who should have their licenses revoked) still claiming that the vaccines cause magnetism and 5G interference. As an American, I am all in favor of shipping extra vaccine doses overseas.

[Cranky]

In the meantime, here in Arizona we now have a law that bans public schools and universities from enforcing mask mandates and Covid-19 testing for unvaccinated students.
Two school districts have a policy to quarantine un-vaxed students who are exposed to Covid-19.  When the governor's office found out they demanded the districts rescind that policy because it is "discrimination" to apply quarantine policies differently for vaccinated and un-vaccinated students. 

So, yeah.  Next wave is definitely coming because here at least we seem to be actively encouraging it.  SMH

Weird.  Most of the universities around here are requiring proof of vaccination to attend classes.  Most of our universities are private though.  Are your universities government run?  If not, how does the government have the power to interfere in private business choices like that?

Ohio has made it illegal for state universities to require vaccination.

Sigh.

[Zamboni]

^Universities require vaccination (or verified exception for religious or health reasons) for all kinds of diseases, especially for students who live in campus housing. It's just so very, very weird to me that this disease and vaccination has been singled out and so politicized.

Meanwhile I read today that the majority of vaccine misinformation on social media was spread by only 12 people. Alarming how the crazies and their crazy ideas can be so amplified.

For those thinking about plane trips: I've flown several times. From what I have observed, mask wearing on the airplane is pretty good in terms of compliance . . . but, of course, people are allowed to take their mask down to eat and drink, and the flight attendants are still serving beverages even on pretty short flights of an hour or two. Which kind of defeats the purpose, I think. And it seems like most of the airlines have dropped their distancing protocols, so you are likely to be surrounded on all sides.

I live in the American South, and over the past couple of weeks it seems like most people have stopped wearing masks in public places. I'd estimate that maybe 20% of people are still wearing masks inside? Places like Target seem to have dropped mask requirements for their employees as well.

[Metalcat]

^Universities require vaccination (or verified exception for religious or health reasons) for all kinds of diseases, especially for students who live in campus housing. It's just so very, very weird to me that this disease and vaccination has been singled out and so politicized.

Meanwhile I read today that the majority of vaccine misinformation on social media was spread by only 12 people. Alarming how the crazies and their crazy ideas can be so amplified.

For those thinking about plane trips: I've flown several times. From what I have observed, mask wearing on the airplane is pretty good in terms of compliance . . . but, of course, people are allowed to take their mask down to eat and drink, and the flight attendants are still serving beverages even on pretty short flights of an hour or two. Which kind of defeats the purpose, I think. And it seems like most of the airlines have dropped their distancing protocols, so you are likely to be surrounded on all sides.

I live in the American South, and over the past couple of weeks it seems like most people have stopped wearing masks in public places. I'd estimate that maybe 20% of people are still wearing masks inside? Places like Target seem to have dropped mask requirements for their employees as well.

I took a flight from Ontario to Florida back in January when things were really bad and distancing protocols at the airport were an absolute joke. I expected them to be strict and they were basically non existent. I was shocked.

[Cranky]

We’re currently traveling through Minnesota to S. Dakota. Minnesota is completely mask free and I bet that S. Dakota will be too.

[the_fixer]

Purchased flights and a hotel / air bnb in Costa Rica for a total of 4 weeks since we missed taking our big 25th anniversary trip in 2020 due to Covid.

I must admit the Delta variant and the amount of breakthrough has me a bit nervous right now.

Flights are on southwest so I can cancel them at anytime, hotel can be canceled a week prior to arrival but the air bnb we will lose money on. Still need to look into travel insurance to see if I can find one that covers medical during a pandemic just in case.

Part of the trip we are spending with friends that are residents of CR in an air bnb (12 of us total). A little worried about them even though they are fully vaccinated it was with AZ so not sure they will be as protected.

6 Months to go we will see what happens between now and then I guess…


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[ChickenStash]

Regarding travel, is anyplace (in or out of the US) currently requiring proof of vaccination to enter or bypass any of the quarantine rules?

Like a good puppy, I have all my shots but I misplaced the little card. My state does have me recorded in the immunization registry so I'm "official" but I'm not sure how to use that to actually prove anything if I need to.

[Metalcat]

Regarding travel, is anyplace (in or out of the US) currently requiring proof of vaccination to enter or bypass any of the quarantine rules?

Like a good puppy, I have all my shots but I misplaced the little card. My state does have me recorded in the immunization registry so I'm "official" but I'm not sure how to use that to actually prove anything if I need to.

All of eastern Canada as far as I know.