Author Topic: Coronavirus preparedness  (Read 130979 times)

lexde

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #400 on: March 04, 2020, 04:24:39 PM »
I did a Walmart Grocery pickup order today (got cheap-ish stock without having to actually step foot in a Walmart).
Put everything in a plastic bin in the closet, figured it can't hurt to have extra supplies on hand, especially since I didn't have any leftover hurricane supplies.

It was more so I wouldn't have to deal with grocery stores over the next few weeks than anything, and I'm pretty well stocked regularly.

I got:
Multivitamins, gatorade mix, lots of water, tinned tomatoes, paper towels and tp, dry milk, rolled oats, extra spices, lentils, black beans, and 2lbs each of long grain, jasmine, and basmati rices.

That's in addition to the pasta, sauces, frozen foods, powdered peanut butter, etc. that I already regularly stock.

ixtap

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #401 on: March 04, 2020, 04:45:28 PM »
DH says that roommate informed him that she won't be visiting her parents (across town) until this is over.

Today I asked if it was alright to invite some people over. She said yes, then about an hour later started texting a lecture on Covid 19 measures. I moved the meeting elsewhere and she set me another lecture about how I shouldn't be meeting with anyone who isn't perfectly healthy, no matter where it is.

She is sending me all of this from her open office.

I just don't have the heart to tell her about asymptomatic transmission or how many people I interacted with while working the polls yesterday.

slappy

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #402 on: March 04, 2020, 04:56:30 PM »
You might want to think twice about wearing contacts if the virus comes to your town.  Do you really want to be sticking your finger in your eyes?

You always wash your hands before putting contacts in, so it shouldn't be an issue.

the_fixer

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #403 on: March 04, 2020, 05:14:45 PM »
Went to sprouts last week since they had a good sale on items we normally use and bought about a months worth and vacuum packed what we will not be using in the next week or two.

hazelnut coffee beans
black beans
10 bean soup mix
jasmine rice
Salted cashews
Unsalted cashews
pistachios
honey roasted almonds
wild rice
rolled oats

In addition to that we have been on a bulk cooking frenzy this year in hopes of eating out less and eating better so we have about a months worth of precooked food in the fridge.

Tortilla soup
Chicken and vegetable soup
Roast and vegetables
Rosemary chicken with green beans
10 bean soup with vegetables and ham
Asparagus
Blood orange sections
Black berries (good sale at sprouts this week)
Amazing chilli
Couple versions of pasta and meatballs
Egg and veggies cooked in a muffin pan

Been meaning to search for a meal prep or bulk cooking thread to share what we have made so far but basically 1 day a week we make something in bulk (like 20 servings) and vacuum pack it. The stand up freezer is just about full at this point




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Serendip

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #404 on: March 04, 2020, 06:00:39 PM »
You might want to think twice about wearing contacts if the virus comes to your town.  Do you really want to be sticking your finger in your eyes?

As others have said, we contact lens wearers are very well-versed in washing hands before putting fingers anywhere near an eyeball :)


Serendip

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #405 on: March 04, 2020, 06:03:41 PM »
Here is an interesting link..an Ask Me Anything conversation on reddit with several medical experts which happened today. Lots of things you might know but also good, reliable information included..

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fdf5fq/we_are_a_team_of_medical_experts_following/

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #406 on: March 04, 2020, 08:19:59 PM »

Some people cannot drink their tap water due to various reasons related to health or simply because it tastes bad.

What health reasons require someone to drink bottled water instead of tap water?  I'd expect the opposite to be true, given that tap water consistently outscores bottled water for safety due to both bacterial and chemical content.


Not liking the way that tap water tastes is not a reason to waste money and pollute the environment with bottled water.
- Deal with it
- Buy and use a filter system for significantly less money

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #407 on: March 04, 2020, 08:29:07 PM »

Some people cannot drink their tap water due to various reasons related to health or simply because it tastes bad.

What health reasons require someone to drink bottled water instead of tap water?  I'd expect the opposite to be true, given that tap water consistently outscores bottled water for safety due to both bacterial and chemical content.


Not liking the way that tap water tastes is not a reason to waste money and pollute the environment with bottled water.
- Deal with it
- Buy and use a filter system for significantly less money

Google "Flint, MI water" for a good reason why people in that city switched to bottled water.

Everyone in my suburb (a few counties away from Flint) received a mailer from City Hall in January informing us of elevated levels of lead in tap water at a few city testing sites. We still drink filtered tap water, but I'd probably make a different decision if I were raising kids.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 07:22:57 AM by OtherJen »

Villanelle

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #408 on: March 04, 2020, 08:33:35 PM »
Friend who lives in Hawaii just sent me a picture from Target.  An entirely empty aisle--all shelves both sides of a long aisle.  Toilet paper and basic cleaning supplies. 

Crazy. 

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #409 on: March 04, 2020, 08:42:24 PM »

Some people cannot drink their tap water due to various reasons related to health or simply because it tastes bad.

What health reasons require someone to drink bottled water instead of tap water?  I'd expect the opposite to be true, given that tap water consistently outscores bottled water for safety due to both bacterial and chemical content.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/public/water_diseases.html

Quote
Not liking the way that tap water tastes is not a reason to waste money and pollute the environment with bottled water.
- Deal with it
- Buy and use a filter system for significantly less money

Does that mean people shouldn't buy any bottled drinks and just stick to tap water, no matter how nasty it might taste?  Remember, this is America.  People are free to spend their money for something they prefer, whether it's bottled water or some other prepackaged/bottled beverage.

I'm not one of those people to buy bottled water, but my tap water is fine.

Cranky

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #410 on: March 05, 2020, 07:14:46 AM »
People are free to spend their money as they choose, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect other people. Bottled water generates a vast amount of plastic waste and is basically just somebody else's tap water.

Tap water that doesn't taste great can be improved by letting it stand until the chlorine evaporates, filtering it, and chilling it.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #411 on: March 05, 2020, 07:23:29 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

StashingAway

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #412 on: March 05, 2020, 07:31:16 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #413 on: March 05, 2020, 07:34:17 AM »
So I went back to Costco yesterday. The numbers of customers were normal and most people were in a pretty good mood. There were a few people stocking up with flatbed carts, but most people were just doing their normal shopping from the looks of things. No TP, paper towels, Kleenex, AP flour (organic or regular), boxes of antibacterial wipes. There were still some boxes of Clorox and different bottled disinfectants. Plenty of bottled water and cold/flu medications. No idea about rice or beans.

At my local Wal-Mart, they still had TP and paper towels, but hardly any dried beans or rice, no regular bleach. Good on flour. Still had lots of cold/flu meds. I did not check hand sanitizer or water.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #414 on: March 05, 2020, 07:45:09 AM »

Some people cannot drink their tap water due to various reasons related to health or simply because it tastes bad.

What health reasons require someone to drink bottled water instead of tap water?  I'd expect the opposite to be true, given that tap water consistently outscores bottled water for safety due to both bacterial and chemical content.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/public/water_diseases.html



Not sure I understand what the link there is supposed to prove.  The diseases listed in it apply to bottled water as well as tap water, and in the US and Canada tap water is tested more often and more strictly for them.


There have been many, many recorded cases of bottled water causing illness.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-198362/Bottled-water-peril.html
https://www.thelocal.es/20160426/thousands-fall-sick-from-poo-contaminated-bottled-water
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/14/nyregion/3-sickened-after-drinking-bottled-water.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/15/nyregion/2-more-illnesses-linked-to-bottled-water.html


In most cases, bottled water is just tap water . . . that's left to sit in a plastic container for months at a time.  The idea that it's somehow safer than tap is just not true


Quote
Not liking the way that tap water tastes is not a reason to waste money and pollute the environment with bottled water.
- Deal with it
- Buy and use a filter system for significantly less money

Does that mean people shouldn't buy any bottled drinks and just stick to tap water, no matter how nasty it might taste?  Remember, this is America.  People are free to spend their money for something they prefer, whether it's bottled water or some other prepackaged/bottled beverage.

I'm not one of those people to buy bottled water, but my tap water is fine.

Of course you're free to do what you want.  Just make your descisions on reality.  People have been lied to by companies that have created a market for something totally unnecessary - bottled water.  If you're buying water because of a misguided impression that it's safer than tap water, then good news!  That's totally unnecessary.  If you don't like the taste of your tap water, then good news!  You can save money buy buying a cheap filter, or by letting the water sit out/refrigerate it.

I can see where bottled water might be necessary if some sort of disaster happens to the public water distribution system, but short of that . . . Drinking bottled water is a lot like rolling coal.  It just hurts others by generating waste and pollution for no benefit to anyone.

former player

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #415 on: March 05, 2020, 07:47:19 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.
So all the environmental waste created by bottling and transporting water is completely unnecessary?

Chances of the human race not completely trashing the environment of the only planet it has currently seem to be nil.

nereo

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #416 on: March 05, 2020, 07:47:57 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.

Adding to the above
The US has excellent public water (aka "tap water").  But lately it's been stigmatized by a few high profile cases (e.g. Flint) and by the beverage industry that makes a ludicrus profit margin from bottling and re-selling tap water (e.g. the popular 'Dasani' brand bottled and distributed by Coca-Cola is, in fact, ordinary tap water that undergoes the same filtration steps of normal tap water) or making 'artisanal spring water' desireable, when in fact it's what used to be called 'pressurized well water".

In an overabundance of caution many municipalities over-chlorinate their water which can affect taste, but that's easy enough to remedy (letting it stand in a pitcher, using an in-line filter, etc).

Ironically bottled water has had its own problems, including a massive recall last year from bottled water which was contaminated with e. coli (ironically, cholrine in tap water solves this problem). The water we wash our cars and flush our toilets with is - on average - as safe and clean as the bottled water that sells for $1+/liter.

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SimpleCycle

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #418 on: March 05, 2020, 08:24:42 AM »
Water safety and quality is not a clear cut issue in the U.S., largely due to lead supply lines that connect individual houses to the municipal water supply.  Our house has elevated lead levels and we filter all our drinking and cooking water.  Almost all supply lines in Chicago are lead (although the official stats show them as “unknown”) and work that disturbs the supply line can cause lead leeching.  A house we put an offer on turned out to have Flint levels of lead in the water.

Anyway, it’s only tangentially related to preparedness, but it’s not a clear cut issue.

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #419 on: March 05, 2020, 08:45:45 AM »
Water safety and quality is not a clear cut issue in the U.S., largely due to lead supply lines that connect individual houses to the municipal water supply.  Our house has elevated lead levels and we filter all our drinking and cooking water.  Almost all supply lines in Chicago are lead (although the official stats show them as “unknown”) and work that disturbs the supply line can cause lead leeching.  A house we put an offer on turned out to have Flint levels of lead in the water.

Anyway, it’s only tangentially related to preparedness, but it’s not a clear cut issue.

This. Since Flint, Michigan has been much more stringent and proactive about testing tap water, and elevated lead levels have been found in many cities around the state. Like I said, we don't have a problem drinking or cooking with our filtered tap water, but I would be much more concerned if I were pregnant or raising small children given what we know about lead exposure and early development.

Serendip

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #420 on: March 05, 2020, 08:47:24 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

There's an interesting show called "Rotten" on Netflix which highlights industry practices. Each episode focuses on some type of 'foodstuff'..honey, chocolate, sugar...the one on bottled water is very good!

MyAlterEgoIsTaller

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #421 on: March 05, 2020, 09:03:16 AM »
I don't have any directly virus-related reason to buy bottled water, but I do buy some on a regular basis because I live in a rural area where there is no municipal water, so most people keep at least a few gallons per person on hand (as well as a large container of not-necesssarily-bottled-water for pouring into the toilet tank to be able to flush) for our frequent storm-related power outages when well pumps don't work.  Also I'm located in a naturally-occurring radio-nucleide anomaly where 25% of wells test too high for radioactivity, so a lot of people just don't drink their tap water here as a matter of course.  These areas aren't particularly rare - there are almost 30 of them in my small state.


Villanelle

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #422 on: March 05, 2020, 09:42:46 AM »
I don't have any directly virus-related reason to buy bottled water, but I do buy some on a regular basis because I live in a rural area where there is no municipal water, so most people keep at least a few gallons per person on hand (as well as a large container of not-necesssarily-bottled-water for pouring into the toilet tank to be able to flush) for our frequent storm-related power outages when well pumps don't work.  Also I'm located in a naturally-occurring radio-nucleide anomaly where 25% of wells test too high for radioactivity, so a lot of people just don't drink their tap water here as a matter of course.  These areas aren't particularly rare - there are almost 30 of them in my small state.

Why not just get a large jug for storing emergency water?  You can drink and flush with it.***   And if the bottled water is just for emergencies, why are you buying on a regular basis?  Wouldn't it just sit until you need it?

*** I have this one.  Filled from the tap and set aside in case I ever need it.


MyAlterEgoIsTaller

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #423 on: March 05, 2020, 10:44:08 AM »
I don't have any directly virus-related reason to buy bottled water, but I do buy some on a regular basis because I live in a rural area where there is no municipal water, so most people keep at least a few gallons per person on hand (as well as a large container of not-necesssarily-bottled-water for pouring into the toilet tank to be able to flush) for our frequent storm-related power outages when well pumps don't work.  Also I'm located in a naturally-occurring radio-nucleide anomaly where 25% of wells test too high for radioactivity, so a lot of people just don't drink their tap water here as a matter of course.  These areas aren't particularly rare - there are almost 30 of them in my small state.

Why not just get a large jug for storing emergency water?  You can drink and flush with it.***   And if the bottled water is just for emergencies, why are you buying on a regular basis?  Wouldn't it just sit until you need it?

*** I have this one.  Filled from the tap and set aside in case I ever need it.


Buying emergency power-outage water on a regular basis is because my power goes out on average 36 times per year - though only a handful of those each year last a day or more. The record since I've lived there is 6 days.  My electric company is currently doing a re-routing project that's supposed to substantially lessen that, so... fingers crossed.

I have one of those large jugs - that's what I use for the toilet-flushing water.  I found that wasn't a great solution for long-term potable water storage, because if you're filling it from the tap then you're supposed to add a cap-full of bleach if you're going to store if for awhile, and I don't like bleachy tasting water.  I just keep a few gallon jugs of store-bought water around, and replace them after each longer-term power incident.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #424 on: March 05, 2020, 01:53:39 PM »
Friend who lives in Hawaii just sent me a picture from Target.  An entirely empty aisle--all shelves both sides of a long aisle.  Toilet paper and basic cleaning supplies. 

Crazy.
I just stopped at Target, Lowes and Ralph's and not only were all the shelves fully stocked, they even had sales on things like water, sanatizers and TP. Also no one in any of the store (ahhh...the bliss of shopping midweek midday once FIRE). I'm not stocking up on anything because I won't be home but did get some extra food.
Definitely no sanitizing wipes in our stores...I know, because the elementary teacher was asking for some.  So I thought, as I was at the drug store buying graph paper...nope, nothing.

Still can't find lentils.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #425 on: March 05, 2020, 01:53:58 PM »
Friend who lives in Hawaii just sent me a picture from Target.  An entirely empty aisle--all shelves both sides of a long aisle.  Toilet paper and basic cleaning supplies. 

Crazy.
I just stopped at Target, Lowes and Ralph's and not only were all the shelves fully stocked, they even had sales on things like water, sanatizers and TP. Also no one in any of the store (ahhh...the bliss of shopping midweek midday once FIRE). I'm not stocking up on anything because I won't be home but did get some extra food.
Dog food?
:-P

nereo

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #426 on: March 05, 2020, 02:44:38 PM »
Friend who lives in Hawaii just sent me a picture from Target.  An entirely empty aisle--all shelves both sides of a long aisle.  Toilet paper and basic cleaning supplies. 

Crazy.
I just stopped at Target, Lowes and Ralph's and not only were all the shelves fully stocked, they even had sales on things like water, sanatizers and TP. Also no one in any of the store (ahhh...the bliss of shopping midweek midday once FIRE). I'm not stocking up on anything because I won't be home but did get some extra food.
Dog food?
:-P
ha no dog so no dog food but did have a fat kibbles stash back when I had pets. I figure we could share ;-).

Sorry... stupid joke... because of your avatar... a small, mustachioed, top-hat wearing, monocle-clad doggie.

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #427 on: March 05, 2020, 03:50:34 PM »

Some people cannot drink their tap water due to various reasons related to health or simply because it tastes bad.

What health reasons require someone to drink bottled water instead of tap water?  I'd expect the opposite to be true, given that tap water consistently outscores bottled water for safety due to both bacterial and chemical content.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/public/water_diseases.html

Not sure I understand what the link there is supposed to prove.  The diseases listed in it apply to bottled water as well as tap water, and in the US and Canada tap water is tested more often and more strictly for them.


Prove?  That wasn't meant to prove anything, it was an answer to your question about possible health problems that someone could have with their own tap water that would result in them resorting to bottled water, and therefore, be seen stocking up as others had seen people doing.  It was just one possible reason for this.

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #428 on: March 05, 2020, 03:59:26 PM »
Of course you're free to do what you want.  Just make your descisions on reality.  People have been lied to by companies that have created a market for something totally unnecessary - bottled water.  If you're buying water because of a misguided impression that it's safer than tap water, then good news!  That's totally unnecessary.  If you don't like the taste of your tap water, then good news!  You can save money buy buying a cheap filter, or by letting the water sit out/refrigerate it.

I'm not doing any of those things.  I have never bought bottled water, ever.  But I accept people's freedom to do so in this country.  Also, if someone has contaminated tap water that is unfit for drinking, bottled water would typically be safer for them, and that's the very people I was speaking of in my initial post.

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #429 on: March 05, 2020, 04:09:40 PM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

I don't know the statistics, but I've seen stories in the past about many millions of people in the U.S. being exposed to unsafe drinking water, at least on occasion.   Some people can't get tap water out of their faucet at all.  I personally lived in a rural area over 30 years ago where we couldn't drink the well water.  But we hauled water using large containers, never bottled water.  A lot of people are just picky and prefer it over tap water.  Fortunately, I've been able to drink my tap water for over 30 years.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #431 on: March 05, 2020, 10:21:41 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-spreads-one-study-predicts-101552222.html

Thoughts?

There's no question it will cost a lot of people a lot of money. I think it may change how we do things as a species before it's over. Like AIDS changed how we do things. But like AIDS, human behaviour and medicine caught up and it's no longer an instant death sentence. I think there's a lot of anxiety about coronavirus that doesn't translate to effective health measures - like stocking up on toilet paper ffs. I don't think this is the zombie apocalypse but maybe it's a chance for us all to work out some basic self-protective measures before the next really horrible pandemic, and that is inevitably coming. Just a question of when. Maybe it will become normal to be more aware of infection in public places and when travelling. Maybe it will becomes normal to have the resources to self isolate if needed. Maybe it'll become normal for countries to pool resources and knowledge for the health of everyone.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #432 on: March 06, 2020, 02:21:12 AM »
Of course you're free to do what you want.  Just make your descisions on reality.  People have been lied to by companies that have created a market for something totally unnecessary - bottled water.  If you're buying water because of a misguided impression that it's safer than tap water, then good news!  That's totally unnecessary.  If you don't like the taste of your tap water, then good news!  You can save money buy buying a cheap filter, or by letting the water sit out/refrigerate it.

I'm not doing any of those things.  I have never bought bottled water, ever.  But I accept people's freedom to do so in this country.  Also, if someone has contaminated tap water that is unfit for drinking, bottled water would typically be safer for them, and that's the very people I was speaking of in my initial post.
Meaning that you accept people's (by which I suspect you probably mean American's) freedom to pollute the one earth we have in any way they like?

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #433 on: March 06, 2020, 07:18:12 AM »
Of course you're free to do what you want.  Just make your descisions on reality.  People have been lied to by companies that have created a market for something totally unnecessary - bottled water.  If you're buying water because of a misguided impression that it's safer than tap water, then good news!  That's totally unnecessary.  If you don't like the taste of your tap water, then good news!  You can save money buy buying a cheap filter, or by letting the water sit out/refrigerate it.

I'm not doing any of those things.  I have never bought bottled water, ever.  But I accept people's freedom to do so in this country.  Also, if someone has contaminated tap water that is unfit for drinking, bottled water would typically be safer for them, and that's the very people I was speaking of in my initial post.
Meaning that you accept people's (by which I suspect you probably mean American's) freedom to pollute the one earth we have in any way they like?

I was kinda wondering that myself.  Respecting freedom is great and all . . . but when the freedom that you respect (generating waste needlessly) takes away the freedom of others (living in a planet that's not polluted by utterly needless waste) that's where problems tend to pop up.

Rimu05

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #434 on: March 06, 2020, 08:15:13 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.

I disagree. In New Jersey, I drank tap water. In Florida, it tastes absolutely horrible. I phased out bottled water in NJ but now I am back to it because I have tried to give the water in FL a try and I just cannot stand it. I am not the only one either. Even in Kenya where the water isn't treated and we do so ourselves, I have always drank the tap water.

Also, I have met people who simply don't "trust" American water. They buy only FIJI bottled water because it's "purer and chemical free." Their words, not mine. I just think the water is absolutely foul. Even my hair and skin don't like it.

StashingAway

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #435 on: March 06, 2020, 09:21:02 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.

I disagree. In New Jersey, I drank tap water. In Florida, it tastes absolutely horrible. I phased out bottled water in NJ but now I am back to it because I have tried to give the water in FL a try and I just cannot stand it. I am not the only one either. Even in Kenya where the water isn't treated and we do so ourselves, I have always drank the tap water.

Also, I have met people who simply don't "trust" American water. They buy only FIJI bottled water because it's "purer and chemical free." Their words, not mine. I just think the water is absolutely foul. Even my hair and skin don't like it.

I'mma disagree that you disagree. I think we're saying the same thing. I said people are picky about the taste and a perception of quality. I can't see where you suggest anything different. The vast majority of tap water in the U.S. is safe and potable, which is different from having bad flavor or mineral content that makes showering more cumbersome in different regions. But for those regions, there are more often household solutions (water softener, whole-house filters) that can be implemented. Do you shower using bottled water?

To be fair, people's tastes are different; I am fine with the flavor of Florida water and Kansas water and Washington water and any other state I've been in. I got sick from well water on a reservation once, but that wasn't regulated. My grandpa used to fill gallon jugs of water from his house when he visited us because he couldn't stand our water, even for making coffee. So I get that something that tastes fine for me can be "absolutely foul" for someone else.

Bringing it back around to the topic on hand; there is no real reason you would need bottled water over tap water in an emergency situation, excepting certain natural disasters where water lines are out of service. Coronavirous is not that situation, which is what the above poster was asking from a foreigner's perspective.

bigblock440

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #436 on: March 06, 2020, 09:25:56 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.

I disagree. In New Jersey, I drank tap water. In Florida, it tastes absolutely horrible. I phased out bottled water in NJ but now I am back to it because I have tried to give the water in FL a try and I just cannot stand it. I am not the only one either. Even in Kenya where the water isn't treated and we do so ourselves, I have always drank the tap water.

Also, I have met people who simply don't "trust" American water. They buy only FIJI bottled water because it's "purer and chemical free." Their words, not mine. I just think the water is absolutely foul. Even my hair and skin don't like it.

Have you tried a charcoal filter, like a Brita or something?  I'd think that would filter out the minerals causing the taste.  You could also use a water cooler with the 4-5 gallon jugs, I've used both when I lived somewhere that had bad-tasting water (before I realized that the chlorine would evaporate, and the charcoal filter was unnecessary).

brandon1827

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #437 on: March 06, 2020, 09:31:03 AM »
I have always just drank tap water and scoffed at my wife for preferring filtered and bottled water. I live in Clarksville, TN and it was recently revealed by the EPA that our water treatment plant has received 498 overflow violations; releasing an estimated 82 million gallons of untreated sewage into the river since 2014. There was a 100 year flood here in 2010 and apparently the water treatment system was "rebuilt" after that...and the city assured us that they "take this matter very seriously"...yet the river has still had 1.5 million gallons of "overflow" dumped into the river as of last Fall for the 2019 calendar year. I understand that my city may be an isolated outlier...but if it can happen here it can happen anywhere...and I can guarantee you my wife will never drink Clarksville city tap water again. I don't think it makes it any better, but we don't buy single serve water bottles. We get the 5-gallon Primo water jugs and recycle them back after they're empty.

nereo

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #438 on: March 06, 2020, 09:41:45 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.

I disagree. In New Jersey, I drank tap water. In Florida, it tastes absolutely horrible. I phased out bottled water in NJ but now I am back to it because I have tried to give the water in FL a try and I just cannot stand it. I am not the only one either. Even in Kenya where the water isn't treated and we do so ourselves, I have always drank the tap water.

Also, I have met people who simply don't "trust" American water. They buy only FIJI bottled water because it's "purer and chemical free." Their words, not mine. I just think the water is absolutely foul. Even my hair and skin don't like it.

Have you tried a charcoal filter, like a Brita or something?  I'd think that would filter out the minerals causing the taste.  You could also use a water cooler with the 4-5 gallon jugs, I've used both when I lived somewhere that had bad-tasting water (before I realized that the chlorine would evaporate, and the charcoal filter was unnecessary).

Brita-style filters are a waste of both money and resources IMO.  Instead, get an under-sink 10" filter.  The initial cost is around $80 for a two-stage, but the replacement filters are $5 and last for 4,000-10,000 gallons (vs 40 gallons per Brita filter).  That's a 100x increase, and the two-stage means they work a hell of a lot better.

If you've got really objectionable water or want to just go overboard with filtering you can get an undersink RO + 3 stage for about $150.

ixtap

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #439 on: March 06, 2020, 09:51:18 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.

I disagree. In New Jersey, I drank tap water. In Florida, it tastes absolutely horrible. I phased out bottled water in NJ but now I am back to it because I have tried to give the water in FL a try and I just cannot stand it. I am not the only one either. Even in Kenya where the water isn't treated and we do so ourselves, I have always drank the tap water.

Also, I have met people who simply don't "trust" American water. They buy only FIJI bottled water because it's "purer and chemical free." Their words, not mine. I just think the water is absolutely foul. Even my hair and skin don't like it.

Is your water naturally soft? My skin can't handle soft water. When we finally figured this out as a teenager we switched from a water softener to a whole house water filter for our well water.

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #440 on: March 06, 2020, 11:33:45 AM »
Of course you're free to do what you want.  Just make your descisions on reality.  People have been lied to by companies that have created a market for something totally unnecessary - bottled water.  If you're buying water because of a misguided impression that it's safer than tap water, then good news!  That's totally unnecessary.  If you don't like the taste of your tap water, then good news!  You can save money buy buying a cheap filter, or by letting the water sit out/refrigerate it.

I'm not doing any of those things.  I have never bought bottled water, ever.  But I accept people's freedom to do so in this country.  Also, if someone has contaminated tap water that is unfit for drinking, bottled water would typically be safer for them, and that's the very people I was speaking of in my initial post.
Meaning that you accept people's (by which I suspect you probably mean American's) freedom to pollute the one earth we have in any way they like?

No, that's not what I mean at all.  Yes, I was thinking about Americans drinking bottled water.  I think the bottles should be disposed of properly and legally, preferably in a recycling container.  But I support their freedom to drink bottled water vs. unsafe or horrible tasting water, if that's an issue for them.  I drink from the tap, myself.

SunnyDays

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #441 on: March 06, 2020, 11:37:49 AM »
Reverse Osmosis systems, and perhaps other under sink systems waste a lot of water; something like 3 gallons for every gallon of filtered water.

NextTime

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #442 on: March 06, 2020, 11:38:56 AM »
Is poor tap water quality a widespread problem in the USA?  I know about Flint, of course, but the EU and UK meet the standards of the Drinking Water Directive and tap water is almost invariably safe and potable.  If this isn't the case in the USA why isn't there an outcry about it, rather than defaulting to "I must have bottled/filtered water", which is no solution.

No. The quality/safety is fine here (even Flint is safe as of 2017 with the exception of several private residences). In general, people are picky about the taste and I suspect a perception of quality (tap water doesn't look as fancy).

I think if we required bottled water to be in universal ugly cardboard or plastic pouches (rather than designed fancy bottles) it would solve half of the problem right away.

I disagree. In New Jersey, I drank tap water. In Florida, it tastes absolutely horrible. I phased out bottled water in NJ but now I am back to it because I have tried to give the water in FL a try and I just cannot stand it. I am not the only one either. Even in Kenya where the water isn't treated and we do so ourselves, I have always drank the tap water.

Also, I have met people who simply don't "trust" American water. They buy only FIJI bottled water because it's "purer and chemical free." Their words, not mine. I just think the water is absolutely foul. Even my hair and skin don't like it.

Have you tried a charcoal filter, like a Brita or something?  I'd think that would filter out the minerals causing the taste.  You could also use a water cooler with the 4-5 gallon jugs, I've used both when I lived somewhere that had bad-tasting water (before I realized that the chlorine would evaporate, and the charcoal filter was unnecessary).

Brita-style filters are a waste of both money and resources IMO.  Instead, get an under-sink 10" filter.  The initial cost is around $80 for a two-stage, but the replacement filters are $5 and last for 4,000-10,000 gallons (vs 40 gallons per Brita filter).  That's a 100x increase, and the two-stage means they work a hell of a lot better.

If you've got really objectionable water or want to just go overboard with filtering you can get an undersink RO + 3 stage for about $150.



Do you have an undersink filter you'd recommend? 

Because the water filters for my refrigerator cost an arm and a leg.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 11:40:53 AM by dcozad999 »

the_fixer

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Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #443 on: March 06, 2020, 11:48:41 AM »
Of course you're free to do what you want.  Just make your descisions on reality.  People have been lied to by companies that have created a market for something totally unnecessary - bottled water.  If you're buying water because of a misguided impression that it's safer than tap water, then good news!  That's totally unnecessary.  If you don't like the taste of your tap water, then good news!  You can save money buy buying a cheap filter, or by letting the water sit out/refrigerate it.

I'm not doing any of those things.  I have never bought bottled water, ever.  But I accept people's freedom to do so in this country.  Also, if someone has contaminated tap water that is unfit for drinking, bottled water would typically be safer for them, and that's the very people I was speaking of in my initial post.
Meaning that you accept people's (by which I suspect you probably mean American's) freedom to pollute the one earth we have in any way they like?

No, that's not what I mean at all.  Yes, I was thinking about Americans drinking bottled water.  I think the bottles should be disposed of properly and legally, preferably in a recycling container.  But I support their freedom to drink bottled water vs. unsafe or horrible tasting water, if that's an issue for them.  I drink from the tap, myself.

Ohhh come on the majority of people buying bottled water buy it out of vanity or perceived convenience not because their water is bad or they have health issues.

People that really have bad water or a need for it typically have large containers, delivery or treatment systems in their house they are not out buying 16oz bottles or fancy Fiji square bottles.

The rest of people need to step the f up and do what is right for the planet and that is not filling it with a bunch of plastic trash.

Buy a reusable bottle, fill it with water rinse / repeat




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« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 11:51:10 AM by the_fixer »

StashingAway

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #444 on: March 06, 2020, 12:06:21 PM »

Do you have an undersink filter you'd recommend? 

Because the water filters for my refrigerator cost an arm and a leg.

I have one of these: https://www.propurusa.com/Inline-Connect-FS10_p_219.html

It costs and arm and a leg; at $200/filter every two years it's not cheap but it's significantly cheaper than bottled water. Made in the US. It filters heavy metals, so if we were to have a lead-in-the-pipes incident we'd still have one faucet that was free of contaminents. If you're only worried about flavor, it's overboard (although it will work for that).

EngineerOurFI

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #445 on: March 06, 2020, 12:33:25 PM »
I thought main point of thread was to discuss overall preparedness measures, but it looks it has digressed a little bit into solely focusing on the idiots stocking bottled water by the truckload or how your city tap water tastes.

As for my family and COVID-19 preparedness:
I'm not really that worried about COVID-19 significantly negatively impacting me or my immediately family.  We're all young in my immediate family and unlikely to experience extreme negative side affects and I can easily work from home.  My wife could be somewhat more impacted with her job since she works with kids at a local theatre and these kids are literally all about to travel domestically and internationally to ~30 different places over next week - and while kids seem to have a lower contraction and death rate.....they'll still spread it to some degree.  But again, really not that overall concerned for my immediate family's safety and job, etc.

My only real concern is for my 50+ year old MIL with deficient immune system whose husband travels *all* over country nonstop.  If you look at stats on folks over 50 and especially over 60, it's really not great.

Regardless, some precautions are perfectly reasonable and rational.

I live in the gulf coast area and have lived through multiple pretty severe hurricanes including, most recently, Harvey.  As a result, I'm well aware of how even relatively minor supply chain disruptions can make certain things "never" an issue suddenly a major issue.  It is really very, very shocking how quickly, when living in a densely urban environment, it can go from "oh nothing is wrong" to "wow, I can't get ANYTHING I need" almost overnight.  And that's only due to *regional* supply chain disruptions.  A key difference with COVID-19 is that it is exceptionally unlikely that we will experience utility failures that are so problematic with hurricanes or other natural disasters - meaning our internet, electricity, water, and sewage will likely keep working 100% of the time and roads will remain open and clear (other than the worst-case scenario of roadblocks for larger quarantines).

As a result of my hurricane experience and perhaps my natural level of risk-tolerance that is heightened by having two kids under two, by default as just "normal" year-round preparedness we *always* keep extras of many of the "staples" such as Diapers, Paper Towels, Toilet Paper, Toothpaste, Tide, Woolite/Cheer Dark, Downy fabric softener, dryer sheets, spare light bulbs, spare 9V batteries for smoke detectors/flashlights, spare AA batteries for everything else, tissues (I have bad seasonal allergies), shampoo, deodorant, shower gel, hand soaps, children's Tylenol (we have little kids), wipes for kids (again, two under two), etc. etc.  From a mustachian perspective, I try to buy these things when I see good sales and I buy them in bulk (much like the MMM example of his brother-in-law or whoever that should buy cheese in large 1.5 lbs quantities when it's on sale).  We have at least a one month supply of all of these things if not a multi-month supply for most of them.  We do this year-round since it's just a few extra items to shove under bathroom counter or stack in the pantry and they're all non-perishable and last forever.  Plus it's just really annoying to run out of these things, so I'd rather not run out and pay retail when I could've stocked up during previous sale.  And, for anyone that has two small kids, you know that it's a helluva lot harder to go out and get everything you need with two little kids in tow - so it's better just to stock up once for an extended period of time than have to deal with getting all of these "non-foods" on each grocery trip.

Therefore, most of these items are a non-concern for me and my family.

However, I regularly travel internationally and domestically for work and it would not be surprising if I wound up needing to self-quarantine and social distance by staying at home for 14 days, so I feel that some slight additional planning measures are prudent.

Therefore, the only additional COVID-19 inspired steps I've been taking since early Jan are:

  • Increased stock of hand soaps in order to cover potential quarantine timeframes
  • Increased paper towel and toilet paper and facial tissue surpus by +1 large pack each
  • Purchased one pack of formula - this was completely redundant and likely uncessary.  My wife exclusively breastfeeds - but if SHTF then this would be good to have in case my wife was ill and production went down.  If no issue by end of 2020, I'll just donate this to a shelter or something.
  • 4-5 family meals that won't expire for a long period of time.  Stock up on pouches for toddler and stock up on some semi-non-perishables like peanut butter and nuts - same kind of prep we do every hurricane season in advance of potential supply chain disruptions.  My philosophy is that I have zero interest in stocking up on 2-3 weeks worth of food and I highly doubt supply chain disruptions will exceed more than ~5 days - so if I can cover 3 days with emergency food and ~2-3 days with "normal" food in fridge - I feel more than comfortable at this point
  • Stocking up on bottled water for drinking doesnt make sense in my mind since it's really difficult to imagine even in an imaginary scenario where everyone in country contracts virus that water utilities shut down.  However, we use distilled water in the sanitizer for my son's bottles f/ breastmilk - so I just bought a large 6 pack of that (roughly 3 week supply, I guess?)
  • Pack of gatorade that each of us like and drink as a "treat" every now and then to store as contingency.  This is also something we do every hurricane season.
  • Gas tank rule - same rule as hurricane season from June to Dec every year - gas tank never gets below 1/2.
  • Gas backup rule - same as hurricane season - gas tank for lawn mower stays refilled regularly
  • Car maintenance rule - same as hurricane season - cars get serviced 500 miles ahead of schedule and never get late (don't want to have places closing down and have to go thousands of miles overdue on service leading to potential damage/issues)
  • Lysol wipes - bought 2 packs to store as contingency in case communal spread gets widespread in our area and we need to start sanitzing doorknobs etc. - this is more of a "worst-case" purchase in my mind - but it costs $5.
  • wash my hands when i get to work, wash my hands the moment I get home, wash my hands before lunch, wash my hands after lunch, and wash my hands after leaving gym.  I already did most of this as normal hygeine - the only new thing was habit of washing hands the moment I get home.
  • We honestly aren't the "bathe the toddler and infant everynight" family.  Sorry - too much work.  But we're a lot closer to that model now.
  • This extra handwashing makes my hands dry, so my wife picked up 3 of my favorite hand lotion to keep at work where I'll actually use it.  Honestly, I needed to start doing this anyways.

This level of preparation is honestly about 1/10th the amount of work most families in this region do for hurricane season.

Honestly, my largest concern (other than in-laws and elderly family members) is COVID-19's impact to my company stock - down 38% since Dec 31.  Woof.  Hurts my previously ~$55k in RSUs.

In terms of financial steps (since that's the primary focus of this forum):
I had money in cash temporarily while market was at max to move to new Kid #2 college fund.  Timing on that turned out to be fortuitous.  DCA that into 529 now.  I was going to dump it all, but seems inevitable that market gets worse over next ~60 days until summer hopefully kicks the virus, so I'll DCA that $10k into Kid #2 529 plan over next ~5-7 weeks.

And I haven't converted last years IRA to Roth via backdoor IRA - so I need to go ahead and do that now since I've had some minor "gains" and the depressed market state will make sure I don't have any gains to get taxed.

Missy B

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #446 on: March 06, 2020, 12:56:58 PM »
On the news tonight, there were pictures of line ups out the door at a Vancouver Canada Costco because the virus was in a nursing home in a Seattle suburb 3 hours away.  Toilet paper was a popular item.  I plan to do my own run this week.
I looked that news item up and can tell from the picture, that's my Costco in downtown Vancouver.


Most of that is stuff I already had on hand.  And all if it is stuff I will use eventually.  I added some more pasta, canned sauce, and canned chicken to the supplies I already had (which I eat on an almost weekly basis). 

I can see why people don't, or can't feasibly stock up on meat.  But you would think they might grab a giant bag of nuts or something.
Yeah, we bought nuts ourselves. You can actually live on those and function like an adult, instead of having blood sugar crashes every 2 hours from eating all carbs.
Costco was fully stocked, basically untouched for every kind of nut they carry.

Honestly, I fear people's cluelessness and lack of ability to think and prepare properly for emergencies -- and subsequent panic and bad behaviour -- more than I fear the disaster.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You get the odd arsehole, but most people come together and help each other. I've lived through a city destroyed by quake and the aftermath, so I know this for fact. Example, even after the main stuff was sorted we were still having very large aftershocks. We had one while I was driving and the car in front of me started swerving and pulled off the road. I stopped to check and the woman driving was very upset by the aftershock. I was only one of FIVE CARS that stopped, including one that did a u turn.
That's really great. I'm certainly expecting a lot of people in my community to act in that way should we have a major disaster. I'm equally aware that when my city was tested at different times over the past couple of decades with some unusual situations and that there was massive bad behaviour, looting and property damage. There was a disturbing sense of justification about that behavior, as if it was okay because 'all bets were off' and normal rules didn't apply.

I see already the weakness in our social contract as a city. There has been 'every man for himself' hoarding in a large part of our population since the first whiff of coronavirus in Wuhan. We have not had stock of masks since it was initially announced, well ahead of most other places. There is zero sensibility among the hoarders that they should buy minimally to allow others to also protect themselves. Subsequently, people who are actually sick and should be wearing masks to protect others can't get them.

I watched a Youtube video made by a first responder to Katrina. He said that within 48 hours they were hearing automatic weapon fire. The wallmarts had been completely looted -- every last thing, including a lot that would be worse than useless during a disaster, like stuffed toys -- and even the floor tiles. People had pried up the floor tiles and taken them. Presumably as souvenirs, so they could feel that they'd 'gotten something.'

I think the quality of community response to disaster is very different depending on where you are and the sturdiness of the social contract. One of friends was visiting Chile during their 2010 earthquake. I asked her what she thought was worse, the earthquake itself or the reactions of the people after.
She said it was the people after. There was massive looting. Hundreds of people broke into the Costco near them and looted it. She said the strangest thing (and these were middle-class people, not the desperate poor hoping for a windfall) was watching people leave with carts full of frozen meat. There was no power. There was a lot of other damage and people acting irrationally. It was not safe in the streets.

Some places have a stronger community and social contract than others. Some places people pull together, share resources, help out strangers. In some places the social contract is really between family members, so you will do everything to protect your family, but your neighbor's difficulty is not your problem. He has his own family, and if they can't help him, too bad.
 



AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #447 on: March 06, 2020, 04:25:49 PM »
On the news tonight, there were pictures of line ups out the door at a Vancouver Canada Costco because the virus was in a nursing home in a Seattle suburb 3 hours away.  Toilet paper was a popular item.  I plan to do my own run this week.
I looked that news item up and can tell from the picture, that's my Costco in downtown Vancouver.


Most of that is stuff I already had on hand.  And all if it is stuff I will use eventually.  I added some more pasta, canned sauce, and canned chicken to the supplies I already had (which I eat on an almost weekly basis). 

I can see why people don't, or can't feasibly stock up on meat.  But you would think they might grab a giant bag of nuts or something.
Yeah, we bought nuts ourselves. You can actually live on those and function like an adult, instead of having blood sugar crashes every 2 hours from eating all carbs.
Costco was fully stocked, basically untouched for every kind of nut they carry.

Honestly, I fear people's cluelessness and lack of ability to think and prepare properly for emergencies -- and subsequent panic and bad behaviour -- more than I fear the disaster.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You get the odd arsehole, but most people come together and help each other. I've lived through a city destroyed by quake and the aftermath, so I know this for fact. Example, even after the main stuff was sorted we were still having very large aftershocks. We had one while I was driving and the car in front of me started swerving and pulled off the road. I stopped to check and the woman driving was very upset by the aftershock. I was only one of FIVE CARS that stopped, including one that did a u turn.
That's really great. I'm certainly expecting a lot of people in my community to act in that way should we have a major disaster. I'm equally aware that when my city was tested at different times over the past couple of decades with some unusual situations and that there was massive bad behaviour, looting and property damage. There was a disturbing sense of justification about that behavior, as if it was okay because 'all bets were off' and normal rules didn't apply.

I see already the weakness in our social contract as a city. There has been 'every man for himself' hoarding in a large part of our population since the first whiff of coronavirus in Wuhan. We have not had stock of masks since it was initially announced, well ahead of most other places. There is zero sensibility among the hoarders that they should buy minimally to allow others to also protect themselves. Subsequently, people who are actually sick and should be wearing masks to protect others can't get them.

I watched a Youtube video made by a first responder to Katrina. He said that within 48 hours they were hearing automatic weapon fire. The wallmarts had been completely looted -- every last thing, including a lot that would be worse than useless during a disaster, like stuffed toys -- and even the floor tiles. People had pried up the floor tiles and taken them. Presumably as souvenirs, so they could feel that they'd 'gotten something.'

I think the quality of community response to disaster is very different depending on where you are and the sturdiness of the social contract. One of friends was visiting Chile during their 2010 earthquake. I asked her what she thought was worse, the earthquake itself or the reactions of the people after.
She said it was the people after. There was massive looting. Hundreds of people broke into the Costco near them and looted it. She said the strangest thing (and these were middle-class people, not the desperate poor hoping for a windfall) was watching people leave with carts full of frozen meat. There was no power. There was a lot of other damage and people acting irrationally. It was not safe in the streets.

Some places have a stronger community and social contract than others. Some places people pull together, share resources, help out strangers. In some places the social contract is really between family members, so you will do everything to protect your family, but your neighbor's difficulty is not your problem. He has his own family, and if they can't help him, too bad.

You will always get those sorts, wherever you are. Where I live, the central city was completely evacuated. There were a couple of incidents of looting but the army was brought in very quickly to help/patrol. Our army isn't really a fighting force like america's. They do disaster relief and peace keeping in a lot of different countries. They're used to maintaining control of populations at ground level by working WITH those populations, and they did an amazing job in Christchurch.

It's entirely possible that NZ generally has a different attitude to our neighbours. We're a looooooong way from anywhere and a small population on islands the size of the UK. We already rely on each other. But arseholes are everywhere.

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #448 on: March 06, 2020, 04:36:27 PM »
Of course you're free to do what you want.  Just make your descisions on reality.  People have been lied to by companies that have created a market for something totally unnecessary - bottled water.  If you're buying water because of a misguided impression that it's safer than tap water, then good news!  That's totally unnecessary.  If you don't like the taste of your tap water, then good news!  You can save money buy buying a cheap filter, or by letting the water sit out/refrigerate it.

I'm not doing any of those things.  I have never bought bottled water, ever.  But I accept people's freedom to do so in this country.  Also, if someone has contaminated tap water that is unfit for drinking, bottled water would typically be safer for them, and that's the very people I was speaking of in my initial post.
Meaning that you accept people's (by which I suspect you probably mean American's) freedom to pollute the one earth we have in any way they like?

No, that's not what I mean at all.  Yes, I was thinking about Americans drinking bottled water.  I think the bottles should be disposed of properly and legally, preferably in a recycling container.  But I support their freedom to drink bottled water vs. unsafe or horrible tasting water, if that's an issue for them.  I drink from the tap, myself.

Ohhh come on the majority of people buying bottled water buy it out of vanity or perceived convenience not because their water is bad or they have health issues.

Ummm.... I never said a majority.  I said, "some," so it appears you missed my original post about it:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/coronavirus-preparedness/msg2574081/#msg2574081

For the health part, it's more about preventing health problems caused by bad water, not because they already have health problems, although that could be true also.  And I stated in that original post that some people simply prefer it.  That's their choice.

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The rest of people need to step the f up and do what is right for the planet and that is not filling it with a bunch of plastic trash.
Buy a reusable bottle, fill it with water rinse / repeat

But people are free to do what they want with their money, legally.  So you are just stressing yourself out for nothing.  And they could properly dispose of the bottles instead of committing pollution, preferably by recycling, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #449 on: March 06, 2020, 07:03:08 PM »
...(much like the MMM example of his brother-in-law or whoever that should buy cheese in large 1.5 lbs quantities when it's on sale)...

I found this entertaining.  1.5 lbs of cheese is a large quantity?  We live in the PNW where the Tillamook 2-pound Baby Loaf is the standard size, and we typically have 5 of these in our stash at any given time.  We "stocked up" and added a 5-pound Loaf to the mix.  The stuff just gets sharper as it ages, so the longer we have it, the better it gets.