Author Topic: Coronavirus preparedness  (Read 120981 times)

nereo

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #500 on: March 10, 2020, 06:56:30 AM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf


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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #501 on: March 10, 2020, 07:27:09 AM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf

I've heard advice similar to Glenstache's comment, and in fact the article you linked to seems to support this under the "Background" section:

Quote
Growing global research interests in the association between cardiovascular (CV) disease (CVD), other chronic diseases, and electrolyte balance with water hardness, underline the importance of expanded, current data on minerals in US water supplies. The known benefits of minerals contributed by water and diet are: 1) calcium and magnesium: bone and CV health; 2) sodium: electrolyte balance; and 3) copper: antioxidant properties, iron utilization, and CV health. Epidemiological research in the US, Europe, and Russia suggests health benefits may be associated with at least 20-30 mg/l calcium and 10 mg/l magnesium in drinking water1.  Hard water contributes calcium and sometimes magnesium to the diet but the concentrations and relative amounts vary widely according to levels of water consumption through drinking and food preparation and the sources of water. Naturally occurring nutrients with potential health benefits may be removed with water treatment; some may be added or removed deliberately (e.g., by membrane filtration or softening).

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #502 on: March 10, 2020, 05:19:55 PM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf

Depends how much you drink. You can drink enough water that you actually dilute your blood and fluids to the point that your cells can no longer operate well. It's called water intoxication. It's why they started adding salt to beer...... and that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the human species!

nereo

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #503 on: March 10, 2020, 06:06:08 PM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf

Depends how much you drink. You can drink enough water that you actually dilute your blood and fluids to the point that your cells can no longer operate well. It's called water intoxication. It's why they started adding salt to beer...... and that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the human species!

Iím familiar with water intoxication, but that can occur from drinking regular Ďol tap water (or bottled water) as well.  Itís the quantity of total water you drink, not the act of drinking DI instead of tap. The difference between the two is minuscule. You will literally get back the difference in lost electrolytes from a liter of DI by eating a couple of roasted nuts, or a single bite of a banana.  A bananaís got 100x the phosphorus and magnesium found in tap water.  A serving of nuts has 150x the calcium and sodium.

I agree that DI isnít the best thing to drink.  But not because of the loss of electrolytes over normal water.  If there was no other safe option Iíd recommend drinking DI over soda or juice for most people.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #504 on: March 10, 2020, 06:14:58 PM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf

Depends how much you drink. You can drink enough water that you actually dilute your blood and fluids to the point that your cells can no longer operate well. It's called water intoxication. It's why they started adding salt to beer...... and that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the human species!

Iím familiar with water intoxication, but that can occur from drinking regular Ďol tap water (or bottled water) as well.  Itís the quantity of total water you drink, not the act of drinking DI instead of tap. The difference between the two is minuscule. You will literally get back the difference in lost electrolytes from a liter of DI by eating a couple of roasted nuts, or a single bite of a banana.  A bananaís got 100x the phosphorus and magnesium found in tap water.  A serving of nuts has 150x the calcium and sodium.

I agree that DI isnít the best thing to drink.  But not because of the loss of electrolytes over normal water.  If there was no other safe option Iíd recommend drinking DI over soda or juice for most people.

Yeah I was ignoring the DI thing because I think it's rubbish...... I'll opt for water over any other cold drink, and I don't really give a crap if it's still, sparkling, spring water, filtered or distilled. I'll pass on bad tasting chlorinated tap water though.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #505 on: March 11, 2020, 06:11:08 AM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf

Depends how much you drink. You can drink enough water that you actually dilute your blood and fluids to the point that your cells can no longer operate well. It's called water intoxication. It's why they started adding salt to beer...... and that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the human species!

Iím familiar with water intoxication, but that can occur from drinking regular Ďol tap water (or bottled water) as well.  Itís the quantity of total water you drink, not the act of drinking DI instead of tap. The difference between the two is minuscule. You will literally get back the difference in lost electrolytes from a liter of DI by eating a couple of roasted nuts, or a single bite of a banana.  A bananaís got 100x the phosphorus and magnesium found in tap water.  A serving of nuts has 150x the calcium and sodium.

I agree that DI isnít the best thing to drink.  But not because of the loss of electrolytes over normal water.  If there was no other safe option Iíd recommend drinking DI over soda or juice for most people.

This reminds me of a university org chem lab partner I once had who legitimately thought she would die if she drank even a single sip of DI water.
LMFAO

nereo

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #506 on: March 11, 2020, 06:41:48 AM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf

Depends how much you drink. You can drink enough water that you actually dilute your blood and fluids to the point that your cells can no longer operate well. It's called water intoxication. It's why they started adding salt to beer...... and that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the human species!

Iím familiar with water intoxication, but that can occur from drinking regular Ďol tap water (or bottled water) as well.  Itís the quantity of total water you drink, not the act of drinking DI instead of tap. The difference between the two is minuscule. You will literally get back the difference in lost electrolytes from a liter of DI by eating a couple of roasted nuts, or a single bite of a banana.  A bananaís got 100x the phosphorus and magnesium found in tap water.  A serving of nuts has 150x the calcium and sodium.

I agree that DI isnít the best thing to drink.  But not because of the loss of electrolytes over normal water.  If there was no other safe option Iíd recommend drinking DI over soda or juice for most people.

This reminds me of a university org chem lab partner I once had who legitimately thought she would die if she drank even a single sip of DI water.
LMFAO

Funny story - when I was fresh out of college I was a scientific tech in a lab that over treated their drinking water.  Like you could smell the chlorine anytime someone turned on the tap, and coming through New England granite it was hard as hard can be.

Anyway, as the lowest person on the lab pecking order it was my Ďjobí to brew the cofffee each morning, and was warned against using the tap water because i) it made the coffee taste like chemically-laced sludge and ii) it wrecked the coffee machine with deposits.  For a while I dutifully bought gallon jugs of spring water from the grocery store each week.  Then I got sick of paying for them and lugging them around, so I switched to refilling out jugs with DIW for a while, but the only DIW was in the next building over. Then one day they needed to shut off the DIW for servicing and I looked for the next alternative.... and thought of our MilliQ water.  Worked great! ...until someone in the genetics lab found out and I got a formal reprimand. 

Ironically, as I was being reprimanded the lab manager was sitting across the desk from me drinking his morning coffee which I had made.  From MilliQ.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #507 on: March 11, 2020, 07:29:23 AM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf

Depends how much you drink. You can drink enough water that you actually dilute your blood and fluids to the point that your cells can no longer operate well. It's called water intoxication. It's why they started adding salt to beer...... and that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the human species!

Iím familiar with water intoxication, but that can occur from drinking regular Ďol tap water (or bottled water) as well.  Itís the quantity of total water you drink, not the act of drinking DI instead of tap. The difference between the two is minuscule. You will literally get back the difference in lost electrolytes from a liter of DI by eating a couple of roasted nuts, or a single bite of a banana.  A bananaís got 100x the phosphorus and magnesium found in tap water.  A serving of nuts has 150x the calcium and sodium.

I agree that DI isnít the best thing to drink.  But not because of the loss of electrolytes over normal water.  If there was no other safe option Iíd recommend drinking DI over soda or juice for most people.

This reminds me of a university org chem lab partner I once had who legitimately thought she would die if she drank even a single sip of DI water.
LMFAO

Funny story - when I was fresh out of college I was a scientific tech in a lab that over treated their drinking water.  Like you could smell the chlorine anytime someone turned on the tap, and coming through New England granite it was hard as hard can be.

Anyway, as the lowest person on the lab pecking order it was my Ďjobí to brew the cofffee each morning, and was warned against using the tap water because i) it made the coffee taste like chemically-laced sludge and ii) it wrecked the coffee machine with deposits.  For a while I dutifully bought gallon jugs of spring water from the grocery store each week.  Then I got sick of paying for them and lugging them around, so I switched to refilling out jugs with DIW for a while, but the only DIW was in the next building over. Then one day they needed to shut off the DIW for servicing and I looked for the next alternative.... and thought of our MilliQ water.  Worked great! ...until someone in the genetics lab found out and I got a formal reprimand. 

Ironically, as I was being reprimanded the lab manager was sitting across the desk from me drinking his morning coffee which I had made.  From MilliQ.

Yeah, one of my former bosses used to fill his mug from the MilliQ tap and then would heat up the water in the microwave that we used to melt agarose for electrophoresis gels (i.e., the potentially ethidium bromide-contaminated microwave). I didnít care about the MilliQ, but there would have been hell to pay if OSHA caught him using that microwave for consumables. He finally wised up (after a bit of shaming from his lab staff) and started getting hot water from the department office.

nereo

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #508 on: March 11, 2020, 07:42:36 AM »
One of my go-to stories about how difficult it is for people to handle even the most basic PPE comes from genetics lab.  We stressed the importance of how to put on and take off nitrile gloves and masks, only to watch students carefully take off their gloves (after working with ethidium bromide)... and then put them in their pockets while they went to the bathroom.   Great!  You just put your chemically-tinged gloves right next to your genitals. 

Metalcat

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #509 on: March 11, 2020, 07:53:38 AM »
One of my go-to stories about how difficult it is for people to handle even the most basic PPE comes from genetics lab.  We stressed the importance of how to put on and take off nitrile gloves and masks, only to watch students carefully take off their gloves (after working with ethidium bromide)... and then put them in their pockets while they went to the bathroom.   Great!  You just put your chemically-tinged gloves right next to your genitals.

Don't even get me started. I daily have to correct even experienced medical professionals on their PPE use, including my own employer.

I've been criticized by more than one employer for going through too many masks and gloves...because I use them properly.

It's the norm in my industry for people to take off their gloves, which come off inside out, place them inside out on top of a contaminated surface that is covered with a fine aerosolized mist of body fluids, leave, come back, reverse the gloves back in by putting the wrist part up to their lips and blowing inside the glove to get the fingers popped back out. The wrist part that they initially touched with their contaminated gloved fingers to take the gloves off in the first place. Fingers that are typically covered in blood.

The first time I saw it I was like "are you fucking kidding me?"
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 07:58:48 AM by Malkynn »

Imma

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #510 on: March 11, 2020, 08:50:05 AM »
Reminds me of the time when I was in hospital and a nurse with wounds on her hands (small wounds, very dry skin that started bloeding) was messing with my IV because it wasn't put in properly, and there was some blood leaking down my arm and onto her hands. I was like 'hey, I'm bleeding, shouldn't you put on some gloves?' and they replied 'no problem, it would only be an issue if you had something contagious, but it's not like you would have HIV or something'. I was a clean looking young blond college student... And was waiting for the results of an HIV-test.

Test was negative btw and was more done as a precaution than because of serious concerns, but it's not like innocent looking young women are immune to HIV or something.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #511 on: March 11, 2020, 09:59:56 AM »
What I've done/am doing:

We have enough food, prescription medicine, cat litter, supplies, etc that if we were asked not to leave our house for 2-4 weeks, we would not need to break quarantine.  We generally always keep 1-3 weeks at a minimum, so this has mostly just consisted of getting another package of whatever when the current one is about half empty, instead of "we're out."

Washing my hands more.  I'd love to say I've always been a great hand washer, but let's be real.  I washed after using the restroom and cleaning the litterbox, and that's about it.  Now, I'm additionally washing when I get to work, when I get home, and before I eat or prepare food.

Utilizing online order/curbside pickup for groceries.  I halfheartedly did this anyway, but fewer people in stores touching things means fewer points of transmission.

Canceled a trip to a conference next week.  It wasn't necessary to go, and again, I think the fewer people out traveling from place to place, the better right now.

I expect it won't be long till my company asks us to work from home.  My guess is that will come in another 2-3 weeks.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #512 on: March 11, 2020, 10:06:31 AM »
Well, we had scheduled a one week vacation to costa rica beginning a week from today. 
I came in today, and the government agency said all OCONUS travel would require a two-week self quarantine.
so, we're punting.  Pisses me off, but it is what it is.

I'm considering making a run to costco today and buying a small amount of canned & dry goods.
That's about it.

My mom just got a sizeable life insurance check when my dad died two months ago.  I'm considering DCA it into the market.   But it's not my money...so I'm more nervous about it.


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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #513 on: March 11, 2020, 10:17:30 AM »
Reminds me of the time when I was in hospital and a nurse with wounds on her hands (small wounds, very dry skin that started bloeding) was messing with my IV because it wasn't put in properly, and there was some blood leaking down my arm and onto her hands. I was like 'hey, I'm bleeding, shouldn't you put on some gloves?' and they replied 'no problem, it would only be an issue if you had something contagious, but it's not like you would have HIV or something'.

My parents reported a nurse when I was a kid because she wasn't washing her hands or using gloves before messing with, and even placing, IVs. That was shortly before I ended up with a staph infection that added a week to my hospital stay (and then, once home, I still had intravenous antibiotics for two weeks).

That's one of the most consistently distressing things about all the coronavirius-related discussions I've been privy to online and in person over the past few months: Lack of understanding not only about how easily our system can get overwhelmed, but about how dangerous hospitalization can be -- even in much less frightening circumstances -- for our most vulnerable patients.

Omy

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #514 on: March 11, 2020, 10:36:37 AM »
We FIREd last August and are in our 50s so we have decided to take this a bit more seriously than most:

1) Tons of handwashing and moisturizing to help chapping
2) Greatly reduced group activities - have gone from 5-6 group activities per week to only once a week
3) Carry sanitizer with us when we go out of the house
4) After group activity, we take off clothes and wash them, wash hands, and put on house clothes
5) Have completely stopped eating out
6) Keep a fully stocked fridge, freezer, and pantry
7) When grocery shopping, we wipe down cart and items as we collect them.
8) Engaging in activities that can be done outside of a group setting.
9) Gargling with warm salt water regularly.

We are probably over-reacting, but doing these things may help protect us and our community.


Imma

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #515 on: March 11, 2020, 11:22:22 AM »
Reminds me of the time when I was in hospital and a nurse with wounds on her hands (small wounds, very dry skin that started bloeding) was messing with my IV because it wasn't put in properly, and there was some blood leaking down my arm and onto her hands. I was like 'hey, I'm bleeding, shouldn't you put on some gloves?' and they replied 'no problem, it would only be an issue if you had something contagious, but it's not like you would have HIV or something'.

My parents reported a nurse when I was a kid because she wasn't washing her hands or using gloves before messing with, and even placing, IVs. That was shortly before I ended up with a staph infection that added a week to my hospital stay (and then, once home, I still had intravenous antibiotics for two weeks).

That's one of the most consistently distressing things about all the coronavirius-related discussions I've been privy to online and in person over the past few months: Lack of understanding not only about how easily our system can get overwhelmed, but about how dangerous hospitalization can be -- even in much less frightening circumstances -- for our most vulnerable patients.

Honestly if I had to report every nurse that doesn't put on gloves before placing an IV I'd have to file several complaints a year. They are diligent with hand hygiene in my hospital though, that's something. (I think we have a similar health issue, I get IV meds every 6 weeks). I do mention it to nurses when it happens and I've been told gloves get in the way. The possibly of a staph infection hadn't really occured to me but that really, really must have sucked. And weeks of IV antibiotics, that's terrible.

The most scary part of hospitals to me isn't the part of having a serious illness or painful treatment, the scariest part is knowing there's so much that can go wrong: all kinds of nasty bacteria that are resistent to antibiotics, diseases that spread from one person to another, sometimes by medical staff (they tested hundreds of medical staff in my area and around 10% was infected with Corona without knowing it) and let's not even talk about all the mistakes that are made. Whenever I'm in hospital I'm on high alert 24/7. It's very stressful and I'm always pleading to be discharged asap.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #516 on: March 11, 2020, 11:36:45 AM »
OMY, you're probably wasting your time with #7.  The food goes out of your cart and directly onto a likely dirty checkout counter/belt and into the likely dirty hands of the cashier swiping your groceries.  If you want to do that, it would be best to wait until you're home.  Pile them all in one place, wipe them down before putting away, then wipe down where they were piled.  It's a lot of effort, but if it makes you feel better, then do it.

I still haven't seen any stats on how long this virus survives on surfaces.  I wonder?

Omy

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #517 on: March 11, 2020, 11:42:31 AM »
Good point...I did that as well, but didn't put it on the list. I was happy to see the check out person wiping down the belt aggressively...a few people out there are taking this seriously.

nereo

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #518 on: March 11, 2020, 01:13:18 PM »
Even when there isnít a pandemic, one should consider how virtually all produce is handled before you buy it.  Itís picked by seasonal workers who work 12+ hour days with only a port a potty as a bathroom.  Them it gets loaded onto the back of a truck where itís transferred into cold storage. Another set of hands loads it onto another truck for distribution, where it goes into the grocery storeroom, where employees shuttle it onto the floor and stack it in nice piles, whereafter itís looked over by a dozen other shoppers before you ultimately put it in your cart.  Then thereís the belt, the cashier and the baggage person before it makes it into your bag and home.  Six to twenty people may touch that head of lettuce or tomato before it gets to you and the cashier.  During this entire journey stuff hits the ground all the time and gets put back.

People have been surprised that Iíll put a bag of lettuce into a hand cart without encasing it in plastic.  Meh - itís already dirty, and those carts are amount eh cleaner items its touched.  Proper kitchen workflow is to assume everything is dirty as it comes into your kitchen, and to clean/prep accordingly.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #519 on: March 11, 2020, 01:25:47 PM »

I still haven't seen any stats on how long this virus survives on surfaces.  I wonder?

Per WHO:  It is not certain how long the virus that causes COVID-19 survives on surfaces, but it seems to behave like other coronaviruses. Studies suggest that coronaviruses (including preliminary information on the COVID-19 virus) may persist on surfaces for a few hours or up to several days. This may vary under different conditions (e.g. type of surface, temperature or humidity of the environment).

I remember seeing a news segment years ago in NYC where they tested all sorts of things around the city, and measured viruses and bacteria.  Some things were cleaner than I would have guessed - like the poles and straps in the subways.  But some things were very scary - like ATM buttons.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #520 on: March 11, 2020, 01:29:09 PM »

I still haven't seen any stats on how long this virus survives on surfaces.  I wonder?

Per WHO:  It is not certain how long the virus that causes COVID-19 survives on surfaces, but it seems to behave like other coronaviruses. Studies suggest that coronaviruses (including preliminary information on the COVID-19 virus) may persist on surfaces for a few hours or up to several days. This may vary under different conditions (e.g. type of surface, temperature or humidity of the environment).

I remember seeing a news segment years ago in NYC where they tested all sorts of things around the city, and measured viruses and bacteria.  Some things were cleaner than I would have guessed - like the poles and straps in the subways.  But some things were very scary - like ATM buttons.

Dammit.  I'm not allowed to lick ATM buttons any more?

Abe

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #521 on: March 11, 2020, 01:53:16 PM »
We stay prepared for an earthquake or wildfires and up to 3 weeks without electricity or running water. No changes made for preparation plans.

Unless you have elderly or ill family, or work in a nursing home, clinic, hospital or other high-risk location, youíre unlikely to see any major consequences from the virus itself. Iíd probably avoid public gatherings and mass transit for 2-3 weeks if I was high risk (only moderate due to underlying asthma and my profession). The effects of the current low-level panic is a different question and remains to be seen.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #522 on: March 11, 2020, 03:09:09 PM »
I still haven't seen any stats on how long this virus survives on surfaces.  I wonder?

https://apnews.com/fe0239e95b8ad1037639ed833b990e48
Right. I have been thinking that the safest thing to do with any shopping is to leave it in its bags/the boot of the car for long enough for the virus to die before bringing it into the house: that way all I need to do is clean my hands when I come in the house rather than cleaning each purchased item.  But that's only going to work for the non-perishable stuff, and it's only perishables that I'm going to be running out of any time soon.

meghan88

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #523 on: March 11, 2020, 03:13:14 PM »
Even when there isnít a pandemic, one should consider how virtually all produce is handled before you buy it.  Itís picked by seasonal workers who work 12+ hour days with only a port a potty as a bathroom.  Them it gets loaded onto the back of a truck where itís transferred into cold storage. Another set of hands loads it onto another truck for distribution, where it goes into the grocery storeroom, where employees shuttle it onto the floor and stack it in nice piles, whereafter itís looked over by a dozen other shoppers before you ultimately put it in your cart.  Then thereís the belt, the cashier and the baggage person before it makes it into your bag and home.  Six to twenty people may touch that head of lettuce or tomato before it gets to you and the cashier.  During this entire journey stuff hits the ground all the time and gets put back.

People have been surprised that Iíll put a bag of lettuce into a hand cart without encasing it in plastic.  Meh - itís already dirty, and those carts are amount eh cleaner items its touched.  Proper kitchen workflow is to assume everything is dirty as it comes into your kitchen, and to clean/prep accordingly.

Yep, yep, yep.

I've thought about this for years, so I've always washed all produce well, first in warm water and then in cold.  So far, that was enough, or so I've thought.

Being a waste-hater, I've been wrestling lately with the moral implications of buying produce wrapped in plastic vs. produce that's not wrapped, if given the choice, and price being equal.  Things that can get peeled or cooked are likely not a concern, but things like lettuce, radishes, kale - even apples ... especially these days ... if I can minimize the number of hands, coughs and sneezes on the raw foods that I buy to keep healthy ....?

Being waste-conscious and being an anti-consumer at the best of times is tough on the psyche - it saddens me to see what others consume and throw out.  Worse so now.

This pandemic - we can say that word now - will just heap on a fresh new pile of disposable masks, gloves, hazmat suits etc. into landfill.  Not to mention the extra gallons of bleach, disinfectants, soap and other crap that we will send down the drain.

Yay, humans.  We don't learn from history .... tragedy of the commons ...

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #524 on: March 11, 2020, 03:16:53 PM »
I saw something interesting at Costco today. An elderly man with his son shopping. The father was clearly not well and on oxygen. Why the fuck was he out shopping in a very, very crowded warehouse store with his adult son? We live in Ground Zero for this shit!

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #525 on: March 11, 2020, 04:46:34 PM »
Even when there isnít a pandemic, one should consider how virtually all produce is handled before you buy it.  Itís picked by seasonal workers who work 12+ hour days with only a port a potty as a bathroom.  Them it gets loaded onto the back of a truck where itís transferred into cold storage. Another set of hands loads it onto another truck for distribution, where it goes into the grocery storeroom, where employees shuttle it onto the floor and stack it in nice piles, whereafter itís looked over by a dozen other shoppers before you ultimately put it in your cart.  Then thereís the belt, the cashier and the baggage person before it makes it into your bag and home.  Six to twenty people may touch that head of lettuce or tomato before it gets to you and the cashier.  During this entire journey stuff hits the ground all the time and gets put back.

People have been surprised that Iíll put a bag of lettuce into a hand cart without encasing it in plastic.  Meh - itís already dirty, and those carts are amount eh cleaner items its touched.  Proper kitchen workflow is to assume everything is dirty as it comes into your kitchen, and to clean/prep accordingly.

Eeeewww. File this under "Things I knew but didn't want to think about" and "Motivation to work harder in the garden." I admit to being lazy about washing produce, though I'm not lazy about other cleanliness-related things. Must do better. Thanks for the reminder.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #526 on: March 11, 2020, 05:23:57 PM »
We usually spend the summers travelling Europe, but I suspect this summer will be different. So maybe I can keep a garden alive this year? Should probably stock up on seeds before the stores lock down. We have already been told to work from home, all meetings have been cancelled, gatherings of over 500 people have been banned by law, and the neighbouring country has closed down all schools.

*wandering off to find the gardening discussions.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #527 on: March 11, 2020, 08:32:56 PM »
It's mostly things like lettuce that give me pause, although I do wash it as well as I can.  Other foods like apples, radishes, peppers, etc, I put dish soap on and wash them thoroughly with my hands.  Think I'll be expanding my garden this summer......

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #528 on: March 11, 2020, 10:36:10 PM »
It's mostly things like lettuce that give me pause, although I do wash it as well as I can.  Other foods like apples, radishes, peppers, etc, I put dish soap on and wash them thoroughly with my hands.  Think I'll be expanding my garden this summer......

Pretty simple to buy a whole lettuce and peel off the two outside leaves..... iceberg obvs.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #529 on: March 12, 2020, 07:58:53 AM »
Yep, yep, yep.

I've thought about this for years, so I've always washed all produce well, first in warm water and then in cold.  So far, that was enough, or so I've thought.

There is only *one* way to wash produce that kills almost all bad things: bleach solution. Anything else *may* get rid of *some* things, but what you really need to kill is e-coli and staph and fecal coli, etc. You will also need to scrub them a bit. https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/prevention/how-to-kill-e-coli-on-vegetables

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #530 on: March 12, 2020, 08:13:04 AM »
heading into the homestretch of our quarantine/self-isolation.  For anyone who has trouble sleeping at all you might consider having melatonin (or a sleep aid) on hand. The reduced exposure to sunlight and schedule disruptions are hard on circadian rhythms.

Reader

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #531 on: March 12, 2020, 08:31:49 AM »
OMY, you're probably wasting your time with #7.  The food goes out of your cart and directly onto a likely dirty checkout counter/belt and into the likely dirty hands of the cashier swiping your groceries.  If you want to do that, it would be best to wait until you're home.  Pile them all in one place, wipe them down before putting away, then wipe down where they were piled.  It's a lot of effort, but if it makes you feel better, then do it.

I still haven't seen any stats on how long this virus survives on surfaces.  I wonder?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf

a new NIH study says 4hours on copper, 24h on cardboard and 2-3 days on plastics and stainless steel. and 3h in the aerosol form (eg after someone infected coughs)

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #532 on: March 12, 2020, 08:53:55 AM »
OMY, you're probably wasting your time with #7.  The food goes out of your cart and directly onto a likely dirty checkout counter/belt and into the likely dirty hands of the cashier swiping your groceries.  If you want to do that, it would be best to wait until you're home.  Pile them all in one place, wipe them down before putting away, then wipe down where they were piled.  It's a lot of effort, but if it makes you feel better, then do it.

I still haven't seen any stats on how long this virus survives on surfaces.  I wonder?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf


a new NIH study says 4hours on copper, 24h on cardboard and 2-3 days on plastics and stainless steel. and 3h in the aerosol form (eg after someone infected coughs)
Any food shopping (any other shopping too if any) I do from now on is going in the boot of the car and staying there as long as possible before bringing into the house.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #533 on: March 12, 2020, 08:55:22 AM »
OMY, you're probably wasting your time with #7.  The food goes out of your cart and directly onto a likely dirty checkout counter/belt and into the likely dirty hands of the cashier swiping your groceries.  If you want to do that, it would be best to wait until you're home.  Pile them all in one place, wipe them down before putting away, then wipe down where they were piled.  It's a lot of effort, but if it makes you feel better, then do it.

I still haven't seen any stats on how long this virus survives on surfaces.  I wonder?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf

a new NIH study says 4hours on copper, 24h on cardboard and 2-3 days on plastics and stainless steel. and 3h in the aerosol form (eg after someone infected coughs)

That sounds extremely long. But it is an extremely contagious disease, so maybe therefore.
We wash our hands with soap after visit a shop or so.

Here in Norway they are finally taking serious measures, closing schools and kindergartens and forbiddjng health care personell to travel abroad. In the beginning they did very little and that was not effective.

I filled up a big tank and a small one with 30 liters of water, with a chlorine tablet in it. Just in case of general preparedness.

I cancelled my optician appointment next week and DH cancelled a not urgent check at the hospital. We think visiting a hospital might be a big risk. And optitions are in quite close contact with their customers.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #534 on: March 12, 2020, 09:18:39 AM »
heading into the homestretch of our quarantine/self-isolation.  For anyone who has trouble sleeping at all you might consider having melatonin (or a sleep aid) on hand. The reduced exposure to sunlight and schedule disruptions are hard on circadian rhythms.

Do share your story, if you don't mind. Did you have the Coronavirus, or just exposed? What country or area of the country were you exposed?

I feel it would be very beneficial to get firsthand reports of the impact to people's lives.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #535 on: March 12, 2020, 10:27:00 AM »
It's mostly things like lettuce that give me pause, although I do wash it as well as I can.  Other foods like apples, radishes, peppers, etc, I put dish soap on and wash them thoroughly with my hands.  Think I'll be expanding my garden this summer......

Pretty simple to buy a whole lettuce and peel off the two outside leaves..... iceberg obvs.

I always buy red lettuce, but might be switching now.

The optician - hadn't thought of that.  I have an appointment next week.  And just saw on the news that there is a first presumptive case of the virus in my province.  Crap.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #536 on: March 12, 2020, 11:08:00 AM »
I haven't seen anything on whether putting items in the freezer might kill the virus. If so, dry goods (food, of course, but other items as well) could be tossed into the freezer for a few hours/days before using? I've heard that this (though debated) works for bedbugs on library books, which are obviously an entirely different thing, but I wonder if sub-32ļF temp might kill coronavirus over the course of several hours or days. I know viruses can, of course, be transmitted in parts of the world where temperatures are low, but presumably that's because there are warm humans and warm indoor surfaces for them to survive on?

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #537 on: March 12, 2020, 11:09:31 AM »
I haven't seen anything on whether putting items in the freezer might kill the virus. If so, dry goods (food, of course, but other items as well) could be tossed into the freezer for a few hours/days before using? I've heard that this (though debated) works for bedbugs on library books, which are obviously an entirely different thing, but I wonder if sub-32ļF temp might kill coronavirus over the course of several hours or days. I know viruses can, of course, be transmitted in parts of the world where temperatures are low, but presumably that's because there are warm humans and warm indoor surfaces for them to survive on?

Cold is not typically a method for killing viruses.  Sorry.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #538 on: March 12, 2020, 12:47:57 PM »
Labs store virus samples in freezers, so I donít think that works. Heat is better?

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #539 on: March 12, 2020, 12:54:10 PM »
Our roommate seemed really well stocked. Except, she is already using the canned goods while still going about her everyday life.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #540 on: March 12, 2020, 01:06:24 PM »
Our roommate seemed really well stocked. Except, she is already using the canned goods while still going about her everyday life.

are canned goods hard to get in your neck of the woods? 
Went to teh grocery store today - only thing i noticed being low was TP (some) and hand sanitizder (all gone).  Tons of all all other goods, canned and otherwise.  Was pleasantly surprised to find an abundance of fruit and veggies in good quality and on sale.  Spring does seem to be at hand.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #541 on: March 12, 2020, 01:33:03 PM »
When I first started discussing this last month with this thread and one other I was lambasted for being an alarmist. Now much of what I discussed has or is coming true.

May I suggest a username switch? Is Cassandra taken?

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #542 on: March 12, 2020, 01:38:05 PM »
Side note: do not drink distilled water. DI strips electrolytes from your system.

?!?! 
I mean... technically true, but the amount of electrolytes in tap water or bottled water are measured in mg per 100g. Most of the electrolytes in tap water are Ca, Na and P (all <4mg/100g).  So eating a small piece of cheese or a couple of nuts will more than replace all the electrolytes youíve Ďlotsí by drinking DI.

I donít drink DI water because it doesnít taste as good - those trace electrolytes enhance flavor.  But it wonít have an appreciable impact on the electrolytes in your body.
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Articles/NDBC32_WaterMin.pdf

Depends how much you drink. You can drink enough water that you actually dilute your blood and fluids to the point that your cells can no longer operate well. It's called water intoxication. It's why they started adding salt to beer...... and that pretty much tells you all you need to know about the human species!

Iím familiar with water intoxication, but that can occur from drinking regular Ďol tap water (or bottled water) as well.  Itís the quantity of total water you drink, not the act of drinking DI instead of tap. The difference between the two is minuscule. You will literally get back the difference in lost electrolytes from a liter of DI by eating a couple of roasted nuts, or a single bite of a banana.  A bananaís got 100x the phosphorus and magnesium found in tap water.  A serving of nuts has 150x the calcium and sodium.

I agree that DI isnít the best thing to drink.  But not because of the loss of electrolytes over normal water.  If there was no other safe option Iíd recommend drinking DI over soda or juice for most people.
This happened to my sister a few months ago.  She's incredibly "healthy" and eats healthy foods, but limits salt and everything else that people tend to think of as "unhealthy".  She had only had coffee for breakfast and homemade broth (no salt) for a snack and got stuck in a very long meeting and she started to drink water to keep her food cravings down throughout the meeting.  She ended up in ICU and a few days in the hospital recovering.  She has permanent brain damage as a result (just nerve tingling, and they say that's damage to the brain stem).  She wasn't trying to drink a lot of water and didn't do anything that would have made other people think she was in danger.  The only reason she even went to the hospital was because her symptoms were happening on only one side, so her husband said "why not?  we have insurance". 

Raising the sodium in her bloodstream was also dangerous -- can't do it too fast or your brain will swell.  That's why it took a few days in regular hospital.  She's now not allowed to drink more than 64 ounces combined all liquids (soup, wine, beer, water, tea, etc) in any day. 



former player

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #543 on: March 12, 2020, 01:40:55 PM »
When I first started discussing this last month with this thread and one other I was lambasted for being an alarmist. Now much of what I discussed has or is coming true.

May I suggest a username switch? Is Cassandra taken?
Cassandra was right.  The problem was that no-one believed her.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #544 on: March 12, 2020, 01:44:08 PM »
When I first started discussing this last month with this thread and one other I was lambasted for being an alarmist. Now much of what I discussed has or is coming true.

Much of what you said will happen has still not come to pass.  My objections earlier (and now) is that you have definitively stated what will happen even as all the actual experts are expressing how much uncertainty there is.  To quote CDC director Tom Frieden (yesterday): "Anyone who says they know where this is going with confidence doesnt' know enough about it".

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #545 on: March 12, 2020, 01:47:28 PM »
Two weeks ago I started stocking up at the grocery store. Among other things, I bought a big bag of rice and 2 packages of toilet paper (because I was about out of both anyway). People gave me odd looks in the store. Everything was normal.

One week ago, I bought disinfectant spray in addition to my other items. Listened to the clerks laughing about people buying so many disinfectant wipes. Other than that, all was normal.

Today? The parking lot - early on a Thursday morning - was FULL. Many were walking around with their faces covered, filling their carts to the brim, looking just so scarred. Very little toilet paper, no disinfectant, no rice, no flour... but plenty of canned vegetables so I bought some canned veggies. It was the closest thing I have ever experienced to a panicked crowd.

I am no big fan of canned veggies but I am not subjecting myself to that madness again until I have to. My anxiety is high enough!


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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #546 on: March 12, 2020, 01:53:12 PM »
To defend frugaldrummer, she(?) was absolutely right, and in addition couched her posts with the appropriate amount of uncertainty. It was several other posters who were piling on what I thought was reasoned (though understandably on one side of the spectrum) discourse. Here's the first post for reflection. Perhaps the only advice that didn't make much sense was the facemask advice (since they only really seem to lessen infection to others, while offering no protection to oneself).

Thinking about preparedness for the coming coronavirus pandemic. No, itís not the zombie apocalypse. Fatality rate per infection is somewhere in the range of 0.5-1 %. It will not be successfully confined to China. Outbreaks like those happening in Iran and Italy will begin showing up in the US, surely within the month.

The biggest disruptions will be:
Overloaded hospitals - San Diego County could see hundreds and eventually thousands of additional ICU patients. Expect your elective surgeries to be rescheduled.

Travel business will suffer. Who wants to travel if you might get stuck in a quarantine away from home.

Large public gatherings will be postponed (my Rolling Stone tickets might not get used, the conference Iím attending in late May could get cancelled). A lot will depend on whether we attempt quarantines in this country and if so, how long they go on.

Business disruptions - in my case, I expect patient cancellations, may need to do telemedicine visits if quarantines are in force in our area.

Practical precautions Iím taking:

Stocking up on non-perishable food. We are a household of four adults, one is an immune compromised lung cancer patient, so I want to have the option to stay out of the grocery stores if need be. Freezer is full, bought a big stock of rice and red beans. Will stock up on pasta and canned goods - got spaghetti sauce on sale at Costco. Nothing that wonít get eaten eventually even if no emergency occurs.

Filling all prescriptions.

Iíve been sewing face masks (imperfect protection but still of some use.)

Fortunately I have savings I can draw on for any income disruption.

Any other suggestions for the possibility of quarantine/self quarantine becoming necessary for a few weeks?

Oh - stocked up on toilet paper too.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #547 on: March 12, 2020, 04:07:45 PM »
My kid's school just emailed me that all schools in our province will be closing for two weeks after march break (monday).

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #548 on: March 12, 2020, 05:20:49 PM »
Hey, maybe you all can help me out with some mental preparation. IĎm young (20-30 age group), but have a lot of medical issues (autoimmunity and a chronic illness that causes a lot of symptoms). Based on what you guys and gals have heard, am I at risk for serious complications from this virus? Hopefully I wonít get it (I have excellent hygiene), but Iím stuck working in an office in close contact with a dozen people, and am a bit concerned about what would happen if I get it. Any other tips to mentally/physically prepare?

Iím in a state where there have been several cases.

American GenX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #549 on: March 12, 2020, 05:24:29 PM »
heading into the homestretch of our quarantine/self-isolation.  For anyone who has trouble sleeping at all you might consider having melatonin (or a sleep aid) on hand. The reduced exposure to sunlight and schedule disruptions are hard on circadian rhythms.

I have tried melatonin quite a few times in recent weeks, both 3 mg regular and also 5 mg time release tablets.  I can't say that it's helped at all.  I even added a magnesium capsule a couple times when going to bed, but without success.  My problem isn't getting to sleep, as I normally fall asleep pretty quickly,  but I wake up in the middle of the night, most often around 4 AM, about 2 hours early, and can't get back to sleep a lot of the time.  Sometimes I may wake up even earlier, like 2 or 3 AM, and I may eventually get back to sleep after losing an hour or two of sleep.  I've read quite a bit on sleep suggestions, keeping my room dark, not eating or drinking before bed, don't smoke, no clock to look at, no electronic devices nearby, tried a weighted blanket, have a couple white noise machines, and more.  Frustrating.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!