Author Topic: Coronavirus preparedness  (Read 120983 times)

maisymouser

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1000 on: July 25, 2021, 09:03:11 AM »
The sooner all the unvaxxed people get infected, recover, and develop immunity from Covid, the better. The ones who die or end up with long term health issues only have themselves to blame.

I mean, that's the route the CDC is taking by saying "OK no one needs to wear a mask indoors now if they're vaccinated!" (when you know people who aren't vaxxed are going to go ahead and not mask, since there is no longer the social stigma attached to not masking up in grocery stores, etc.)

And at this point I'm inclined to agree from a certain perspective- now that vaccines are widely available in the US, it's largely a matter of personal responsibility. But...

This strategy, it's a big slap in the face to anyone who has children under 12. Sure, my partner and I are both vaccinated, but this strategy leaves young kids completely exposed. We have worked and worked to keep our whole family safe this last 18+ months, and it sure would be nice to know that we are still safe in grocery stores, etc... I know and understand his risk of *severe* illness is minimal given his age, but I don't really appreciate the CDC not taking a more conservative approach when it comes to the health and safety of my toddler. I basically can't go anywhere indoors with him and feel good about it right now.

Plus, I would argue that the Darwinian approach (let those who are too ignorant to get vaccinated get ill) is not in the best interest of vaccinated people either. I get the sense that we want to minimize the risk of further variants developing in the unvaccinated population that could be less resistant to vaccines, and we probably don't want to put further burdens on our already overtaxed healthcare system. There's probably a slew of articles and data to back this up, but I'll let other people who know more about it take this on. For now, I'm primarily concerned about the direct potential impact to my kid.

tl;dr I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree- this isn't going to be the optimal approach.

TomTX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1001 on: July 25, 2021, 10:07:04 AM »
The sooner all the unvaxxed people get infected, recover, and develop immunity from Covid, the better. The ones who die or end up with long term health issues only have themselves to blame.
Delta does a pretty good job of infecting both those who had previous COVID and who are vaccinated.

Still FAR less likely to end up in the hospital or dead - so the vaccination is extremely worthwhile.

Cranky

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1002 on: July 25, 2021, 11:41:57 AM »
So, my friend who got Covid after being vaccinated? She has Covid pneumonia. Not fun.

elaine amj

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1003 on: July 25, 2021, 12:21:59 PM »
@maisymouser yeah - that's basically what is happening in the UK now. My brother and his wife have been super cautious and are both fully vaxxed. Their young DD caught it in school and has just tested positive. Sigh.

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NextTime

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1004 on: July 25, 2021, 12:50:14 PM »
School starts in 3 weeks here. If they go with a no masking policy, seems like this Delta variant will just run through entire elementary schools.


TomTX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1005 on: July 25, 2021, 04:07:24 PM »
School starts in 3 weeks here. If they go with a no masking policy, seems like this Delta variant will just run through entire elementary schools.

Texas has state-mandated no-masking for schools.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1006 on: July 25, 2021, 10:45:28 PM »
It’s hard to watch this all happening again. More vaccinations would certainly help keep things under control.  For those worries about your kids, I can’t tell you not to worry, but our youngest kids (still too young to get vaccinated as of July 25th) barely even knew they had Covid when our family got it. Our oldest definitely knew they had it, but effects were very mild compared to DW and I. (All of us who can be vaccinated have received the shots - the youngest will get their vaccinations as soon as they are eligible. In the meantime, we’re on vacation. 

Bottom line:  Odds are not a guarantee, but odds are, your kids will be a lot less affected by Covid than you will be.

Shane

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1007 on: July 26, 2021, 07:01:51 AM »
The sooner all the unvaxxed people get infected, recover, and develop immunity from Covid, the better. The ones who die or end up with long term health issues only have themselves to blame.

I mean, that's the route the CDC is taking by saying "OK no one needs to wear a mask indoors now if they're vaccinated!" (when you know people who aren't vaxxed are going to go ahead and not mask, since there is no longer the social stigma attached to not masking up in grocery stores, etc.)

And at this point I'm inclined to agree from a certain perspective- now that vaccines are widely available in the US, it's largely a matter of personal responsibility. But...

This strategy, it's a big slap in the face to anyone who has children under 12. Sure, my partner and I are both vaccinated, but this strategy leaves young kids completely exposed. We have worked and worked to keep our whole family safe this last 18+ months, and it sure would be nice to know that we are still safe in grocery stores, etc... I know and understand his risk of *severe* illness is minimal given his age, but I don't really appreciate the CDC not taking a more conservative approach when it comes to the health and safety of my toddler. I basically can't go anywhere indoors with him and feel good about it right now.

Plus, I would argue that the Darwinian approach (let those who are too ignorant to get vaccinated get ill) is not in the best interest of vaccinated people either. I get the sense that we want to minimize the risk of further variants developing in the unvaccinated population that could be less resistant to vaccines, and we probably don't want to put further burdens on our already overtaxed healthcare system. There's probably a slew of articles and data to back this up, but I'll let other people who know more about it take this on. For now, I'm primarily concerned about the direct potential impact to my kid.

tl;dr I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree- this isn't going to be the optimal approach.

In reality, though, little kids are at almost zero risk from Covid. Eventually, they'll probably authorize vaccines for kids 0-11 years old, but it may end up being more dangerous for little kids to get the vaccine than it is to catch Covid. Everyone I know whose little kids have gotten infected, they were totally fine, to the point where the kids didn't even know that they had it. Unvaccinated adults in the family all got sick and some had to go to the hospital, but the kids just went right on playing and having fun. Only reason the multiple families we know knew their kids had covid was because they took them to get tested. Otherwise, they would've never even known their kids were "sick".

Omy

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1008 on: July 26, 2021, 07:36:05 AM »
My anecdotal evidence suggests that kids can get pretty sick with it as well. I have relatives who have 3 healthy youngsters - 2 yo, 3.5 yo and 5 yo. Parents and kids all had fevers, fatigue, and vomiting for a week. It wasn't pretty. I also have a friend whose kids had very different reactions...the littles had colds, but the 8 yo still has respiratory issues several months later.

Imma

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1009 on: July 26, 2021, 07:38:30 AM »
More anecdotal evidence, my friend's 1,5 y/o was hospitalized with Covid, but eventually recovered faster than it's parents. Older siblings were symptomless but infected.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1010 on: July 26, 2021, 07:41:27 AM »
Since the subject has turned to COVID and kids, I found this article interesting:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/the-kids-were-safe-from-covid-the-whole-time.html

Kids have gotten infected at lower rates, and their symptoms have been less severe than other age groups pretty universally during the pandemic. The risks that COVID poses for those under 18, and especially those younger than 12 are less than or equal to the flu for the same age group. If you weren't masking up your little one 2 years ago to reduce their risk of getting the flu or pneumonia, then I'm not sure it's logical to mask them up now. For the same reasons, if you weren't personally masking up to reduce their risk of catching those things then, then it seems inconsistent to do so now. The risks are the same in both scenarios, we're just more sensitive to the risk now.

maisymouser

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1011 on: July 26, 2021, 08:07:15 AM »
Look, I get it, kids are at lower risk than adults generally speaking. But do y'all see what is happening in Indonesia? Tell me I am overreacting. Seriously, I haven't had time to parse numbers and reassure myself that when kids go back to school in the fall, we won't see this kind of effect. Do numbers there still match up with the risk of flu or other infection? Thanks y'all. What a challenging time to live thru.

No Longer ‘Hidden Victims,’ Children Are Dying as Virus Surges in Indonesia https://nyti.ms/2W7Xuyn

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1012 on: July 26, 2021, 08:27:34 AM »
Look, I get it, kids are at lower risk than adults generally speaking. But do y'all see what is happening in Indonesia? Tell me I am overreacting. Seriously, I haven't had time to parse numbers and reassure myself that when kids go back to school in the fall, we won't see this kind of effect. Do numbers there still match up with the risk of flu or other infection? Thanks y'all. What a challenging time to live thru.

No Longer ‘Hidden Victims,’ Children Are Dying as Virus Surges in Indonesia https://nyti.ms/2W7Xuyn

That's not looking too good.  Most of our re-opening plans have been based around the idea that kids below 12 are overwhelmingly going to be OK if they contract the disease.  If this status has changed with the new variants it's going to have to radically impact things.

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1013 on: July 26, 2021, 08:51:07 AM »
Look, I get it, kids are at lower risk than adults generally speaking. But do y'all see what is happening in Indonesia? Tell me I am overreacting. Seriously, I haven't had time to parse numbers and reassure myself that when kids go back to school in the fall, we won't see this kind of effect. Do numbers there still match up with the risk of flu or other infection? Thanks y'all. What a challenging time to live thru.

No Longer ‘Hidden Victims,’ Children Are Dying as Virus Surges in Indonesia https://nyti.ms/2W7Xuyn

I saw that, too. There are a lot of variables, but the recent increases in pediatric ICU admissions for COVID in this country (thanks to Delta) are concerning. Kids are more likely to survive here, thanks to better infrastructure, but those who are sick enough to be hospitalized are at higher risk for long-term complications.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1014 on: July 26, 2021, 10:51:27 AM »
And then we got to read this gem this morning:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/26/1019875347/doctors-worry-that-memory-problems-after-covid-19-may-set-stage-for-alzheimers

Not fun to look forward to. Memory problems aren’t limited to adults either. In fact, memory impacts are the biggest problem our oldest daughter has complained about. Sometimes it’s funny - she couldn’t think of the word syrup and instead called it “pancake ketchup”, but after this article, it doesn’t seem so funny anymore.

Cranky

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1015 on: July 26, 2021, 01:16:50 PM »
I didn’t mask my kids during flu season, but I sure got them a flu shot and made them wash their hands every time we walked into the house during flu season.

Imma

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1016 on: July 26, 2021, 01:23:53 PM »
As someone living with auto-immune disease, I didn't wear a mask pre-pandemic, but I've always been very careful. I stay away from people with symptoms, I ask my friends ahead of time whether any of their kids has a virus, I work from home when my coworkers come into work with symptoms. I take hand sanitizer with me when I go to large events, wash my hands all the time, am careful with food. Anytime someone asks me the "rhetorical" question whether I masked to prevent the flu, I just think "man, you have noooo idea what chronically ill people do just to try to stay alive and well". By the way, flu spreads differently than Covid, so masking isn't really necessary for flu. Governments had prepared for flu pandemics, which is why they didn't have enough masks in stock.

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1017 on: July 26, 2021, 01:25:23 PM »
I didn’t mask my kids during flu season, but I sure got them a flu shot and made them wash their hands every time we walked into the house during flu season.

Parents who have kids aged 12 and older have no logical excuse for not vaccinating their kids against COVID (other than allergy to a vaccine component or other compromising medical issue—a minority of the population).

People around here have largely given up any sort of masking. Full vaccination rate in my county is just over 50%, so I know that a good percentage of the unmasked are also unvaccinated. None of the little kids wandering unmasked through crowded stores are vaccinated, and most of them will be in unmasked classrooms next month. September and October may be ugly. Look for school shutdowns due to lack of staff, despite vaccination. My fully vaccinated friends who picked up Delta variant earlier this month while unmasked in their hotel room were sick with a moderate flu-like illness for a week. The vaccination probably kept them out of the hospital.

Abe

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1018 on: July 26, 2021, 07:55:27 PM »
School starts in 3 weeks here. If they go with a no masking policy, seems like this Delta variant will just run through entire elementary schools.

Texas has state-mandated no-masking for schools.

Our neighborhood has an extremely high vaccination rate, so hopefully will be spared. The others in Houston…we will see what happens. I hope the teachers are vaccinated for their sakes. My neighbor’s son has covid and had flu-like symptoms for the last week. So children who get sick can have significant symptoms. The likelihood of hospitalization for children is low, but the person who said the risk of complications is higher with vaccines is demonstrably wrong:

Rate of hospitalization for children with covid-19: 0.1-1.9% https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

Rate of the most serious complication from the vaccines (inflammation of the heart): 0.007% https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

I was initially skeptical of vaccinating our kid though my wife and I are both vaccinated (and exposed to covid more than most). However I believe the safety is well proven for the vaccines at this point (as does the FDA, which will be approving full authorization in the next few months).

One of the newer vaccines (novovax) is a traditional protein-based vaccine and appears as effective as the mRNA ones. However it is a few months behind in terms of trials for adolescents, and I would not wait for it.

There’ll be the standard conspiracy-mongers saying they don’t trust the above sources, but if they have children and aren’t totally anti-vax goofballs, probably rely on the AAP for most of their child’s healthcare guidance.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 08:06:07 PM by Abe »

Shane

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1019 on: July 26, 2021, 09:14:14 PM »
School starts in 3 weeks here. If they go with a no masking policy, seems like this Delta variant will just run through entire elementary schools.

Texas has state-mandated no-masking for schools.

Our neighborhood has an extremely high vaccination rate, so hopefully will be spared. The others in Houston…we will see what happens. I hope the teachers are vaccinated for their sakes. My neighbor’s son has covid and had flu-like symptoms for the last week. So children who get sick can have significant symptoms. The likelihood of hospitalization for children is low, but the person who said the risk of complications is higher with vaccines is demonstrably wrong:

Rate of hospitalization for children with covid-19: 0.1-1.9% https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

Rate of the most serious complication from the vaccines (inflammation of the heart): 0.007% https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

I was initially skeptical of vaccinating our kid though my wife and I are both vaccinated (and exposed to covid more than most). However I believe the safety is well proven for the vaccines at this point (as does the FDA, which will be approving full authorization in the next few months).

One of the newer vaccines (novovax) is a traditional protein-based vaccine and appears as effective as the mRNA ones. However it is a few months behind in terms of trials for adolescents, and I would not wait for it.

There’ll be the standard conspiracy-mongers saying they don’t trust the above sources, but if they have children and aren’t totally anti-vax goofballs, probably rely on the AAP for most of their child’s healthcare guidance.
Quote
General Limitations
• Format, content, and metrics of reported COVID-19 data differed substantially by state
• Definition of “child”: Age ranges reported for children varied by state
(0-14, 0-17, 0-18, 0-19, and 0-20 years; see Fig 1B)
• Unknown: Number of children infected but not tested and confirmed

States' definitions of a 'child' in that study were all over the place. Our fully vaccinated twelve year old daughter is physically much closer to an adult than a child, i.e., she could reproduce. It makes little sense to lump babies, toddlers, preschoolers, elementary age kids, all together in the same group as those 17, 18, 19, and even 20 years old, and call them all 'children'. Have yet to see any study that looks only at children 0-11, which is the only age group not yet eligible for vaccination. Also, there's no way of knowing the rate of hospitalization for children with covid, without knowing how many kids have been infected. Dividing the number of 'children' hospitalized by the number of 'kids' who have had lab confirmed positive test results doesn't make much sense, as the majority of young children in the 0-11 age range who had covid may never have been tested, because they never showed any signs of serious illness. It's also impossible to know the future effects of vaccinating millions of children 0-11 years old, since we haven't done it yet. I didn't hesitate to take my 12 year old daughter in to our local pharmacy to get vaccinated as soon as she became eligible, as it seemed to me like the risk of her getting covid was worse than any possible risks from the vaccine, but I don't know if I would've been as eager to get an infant or toddler vaccinated for covid. It's completely unclear to me that any possible benefits of vaccinating an infant, or very young child, would outweigh the risks. Too many unknowns.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1020 on: July 27, 2021, 01:21:08 PM »
School starts in 3 weeks here. If they go with a no masking policy, seems like this Delta variant will just run through entire elementary schools.

Texas has state-mandated no-masking for schools.

Our neighborhood has an extremely high vaccination rate, so hopefully will be spared. The others in Houston…we will see what happens. I hope the teachers are vaccinated for their sakes. My neighbor’s son has covid and had flu-like symptoms for the last week. So children who get sick can have significant symptoms. The likelihood of hospitalization for children is low, but the person who said the risk of complications is higher with vaccines is demonstrably wrong:

Rate of hospitalization for children with covid-19: 0.1-1.9% https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

Rate of the most serious complication from the vaccines (inflammation of the heart): 0.007% https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

I was initially skeptical of vaccinating our kid though my wife and I are both vaccinated (and exposed to covid more than most). However I believe the safety is well proven for the vaccines at this point (as does the FDA, which will be approving full authorization in the next few months).

One of the newer vaccines (novovax) is a traditional protein-based vaccine and appears as effective as the mRNA ones. However it is a few months behind in terms of trials for adolescents, and I would not wait for it.

There’ll be the standard conspiracy-mongers saying they don’t trust the above sources, but if they have children and aren’t totally anti-vax goofballs, probably rely on the AAP for most of their child’s healthcare guidance.
Quote
General Limitations
• Format, content, and metrics of reported COVID-19 data differed substantially by state
• Definition of “child”: Age ranges reported for children varied by state
(0-14, 0-17, 0-18, 0-19, and 0-20 years; see Fig 1B)
• Unknown: Number of children infected but not tested and confirmed

States' definitions of a 'child' in that study were all over the place. Our fully vaccinated twelve year old daughter is physically much closer to an adult than a child, i.e., she could reproduce. It makes little sense to lump babies, toddlers, preschoolers, elementary age kids, all together in the same group as those 17, 18, 19, and even 20 years old, and call them all 'children'. Have yet to see any study that looks only at children 0-11, which is the only age group not yet eligible for vaccination. Also, there's no way of knowing the rate of hospitalization for children with covid, without knowing how many kids have been infected. Dividing the number of 'children' hospitalized by the number of 'kids' who have had lab confirmed positive test results doesn't make much sense, as the majority of young children in the 0-11 age range who had covid may never have been tested, because they never showed any signs of serious illness. It's also impossible to know the future effects of vaccinating millions of children 0-11 years old, since we haven't done it yet. I didn't hesitate to take my 12 year old daughter in to our local pharmacy to get vaccinated as soon as she became eligible, as it seemed to me like the risk of her getting covid was worse than any possible risks from the vaccine, but I don't know if I would've been as eager to get an infant or toddler vaccinated for covid. It's completely unclear to me that any possible benefits of vaccinating an infant, or very young child, would outweigh the risks. Too many unknowns.

Recent data suggests that long term problems from covid aren't uncommon in young children.  This study is saying it runs about 5% of cases:  https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210607/Around-525-of-children-develop-long-COVID-19-symptoms-suggests-new-study.aspx

If one in twenty kids who get covid survive just fine but have long term health problems that may tip the scales a bit.

Shane

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1021 on: July 27, 2021, 05:41:02 PM »
School starts in 3 weeks here. If they go with a no masking policy, seems like this Delta variant will just run through entire elementary schools.

Texas has state-mandated no-masking for schools.

Our neighborhood has an extremely high vaccination rate, so hopefully will be spared. The others in Houston…we will see what happens. I hope the teachers are vaccinated for their sakes. My neighbor’s son has covid and had flu-like symptoms for the last week. So children who get sick can have significant symptoms. The likelihood of hospitalization for children is low, but the person who said the risk of complications is higher with vaccines is demonstrably wrong:

Rate of hospitalization for children with covid-19: 0.1-1.9% https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

Rate of the most serious complication from the vaccines (inflammation of the heart): 0.007% https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

I was initially skeptical of vaccinating our kid though my wife and I are both vaccinated (and exposed to covid more than most). However I believe the safety is well proven for the vaccines at this point (as does the FDA, which will be approving full authorization in the next few months).

One of the newer vaccines (novovax) is a traditional protein-based vaccine and appears as effective as the mRNA ones. However it is a few months behind in terms of trials for adolescents, and I would not wait for it.

There’ll be the standard conspiracy-mongers saying they don’t trust the above sources, but if they have children and aren’t totally anti-vax goofballs, probably rely on the AAP for most of their child’s healthcare guidance.
Quote
General Limitations
• Format, content, and metrics of reported COVID-19 data differed substantially by state
• Definition of “child”: Age ranges reported for children varied by state
(0-14, 0-17, 0-18, 0-19, and 0-20 years; see Fig 1B)
• Unknown: Number of children infected but not tested and confirmed

States' definitions of a 'child' in that study were all over the place. Our fully vaccinated twelve year old daughter is physically much closer to an adult than a child, i.e., she could reproduce. It makes little sense to lump babies, toddlers, preschoolers, elementary age kids, all together in the same group as those 17, 18, 19, and even 20 years old, and call them all 'children'. Have yet to see any study that looks only at children 0-11, which is the only age group not yet eligible for vaccination. Also, there's no way of knowing the rate of hospitalization for children with covid, without knowing how many kids have been infected. Dividing the number of 'children' hospitalized by the number of 'kids' who have had lab confirmed positive test results doesn't make much sense, as the majority of young children in the 0-11 age range who had covid may never have been tested, because they never showed any signs of serious illness. It's also impossible to know the future effects of vaccinating millions of children 0-11 years old, since we haven't done it yet. I didn't hesitate to take my 12 year old daughter in to our local pharmacy to get vaccinated as soon as she became eligible, as it seemed to me like the risk of her getting covid was worse than any possible risks from the vaccine, but I don't know if I would've been as eager to get an infant or toddler vaccinated for covid. It's completely unclear to me that any possible benefits of vaccinating an infant, or very young child, would outweigh the risks. Too many unknowns.

Recent data suggests that long term problems from covid aren't uncommon in young children.  This study is saying it runs about 5% of cases:  https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210607/Around-525-of-children-develop-long-COVID-19-symptoms-suggests-new-study.aspx

If one in twenty kids who get covid survive just fine but have long term health problems that may tip the scales a bit.

Sure, if long-term health problems were severe, that would make sense, but the study you linked showed that the most common persistent symptom was "fatigue." Kids felt tired, some for several weeks, others for several months, after having been sick with covid, but they all eventually recovered. The study also found that, "Older children and those with other chronic medical conditions had approximately three times higher odds of long-term symptoms." It seems like this study is confirming what I've read elsewhere, that kids in the 0-11 age group are at, while not zero, VERY LITTLE risk from covid. Maybe it'll make sense to vaccinate kids in the 5-11 age range, first, but then hold off on vaccinating 0-4 year olds, since most aren't in school yet, anyway. No vaccine is without risk. It just seems to me that since covid is much less dangerous for younger children than for teens and adults, it makes sense to proceed cautiously with vaccinating the littlest kids. Since young children are unlikely to get sick with covid, and those who do are unlikely to have any serious acute or long-term effects from it, maybe it won't make any sense to vaccinate the youngest children, since the risk of vaccination also isn't zero, and some of the more serious side effects for little kids may not become apparent, until after mass vaccinations of young children have already begun, just like happened with the AZ and J&J vaccines in adults.

Abe

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1022 on: July 27, 2021, 06:37:22 PM »
We should have trial results for the 5-11 group by October for the mRNA vaccines. Also, even the lowest end of the range of complications is higher than the complication rate of vaccinations, so the heterogeneity of the cohort doesn’t affect the conclusion (that is accounted for in the range). This cohort was expanded by the FDA to evaluate risk of cardiac complications from the vaccine since covid itself can cause that. There aren’t any other long-term complications identified to date from the mRNA vaccines (one year from initial testing and 8 months from the large-scale trial reports). What specifically do you think differs between young children’s immune systems and older children? I initially shared your concerns but there’s not good rationale at this point compared to the risks of cardiac complications for children. I would say at least ones that that medical conditions should be vaccinated. Completely healthy ones I would leave up to the parents. It would then make sens that those children should stay in remote school until vaccinated or the pandemic ends.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 06:44:04 PM by Abe »

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1023 on: July 27, 2021, 06:59:35 PM »
We should have trial results for the 5-11 group by October for the mRNA vaccines. Also, even the lowest end of the range of complications is higher than the complication rate of vaccinations, so the heterogeneity of the cohort doesn’t affect the conclusion (that is accounted for in the range). This cohort was expanded by the FDA to evaluate risk of cardiac complications from the vaccine since covid itself can cause that. There aren’t any other long-term complications identified to date from the mRNA vaccines (one year from initial testing and 8 months from the large-scale trial reports). What specifically do you think differs between young children’s immune systems and older children? I initially shared your concerns but there’s not good rationale at this point compared to the risks of cardiac complications for children. I would say at least ones that that medical conditions should be vaccinated. Completely healthy ones I would leave up to the parents. It would then make sens that those children should stay in remote school until vaccinated or the pandemic ends.

Not claiming any differences between younger/older children's immune systems, just vastly different levels of risk from the virus, depending on age. Older children appear to be at multiple times more risk from covid than are younger kids. Do you really have no concerns, at all, about vaccinating children of any age? How about infants? Would you be okay having your 2 or 3 month old infant vaccinated for covid?

Abe

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1024 on: July 27, 2021, 07:02:53 PM »
We should have trial results for the 5-11 group by October for the mRNA vaccines. Also, even the lowest end of the range of complications is higher than the complication rate of vaccinations, so the heterogeneity of the cohort doesn’t affect the conclusion (that is accounted for in the range). This cohort was expanded by the FDA to evaluate risk of cardiac complications from the vaccine since covid itself can cause that. There aren’t any other long-term complications identified to date from the mRNA vaccines (one year from initial testing and 8 months from the large-scale trial reports). What specifically do you think differs between young children’s immune systems and older children? I initially shared your concerns but there’s not good rationale at this point compared to the risks of cardiac complications for children. I would say at least ones that that medical conditions should be vaccinated. Completely healthy ones I would leave up to the parents. It would then make sens that those children should stay in remote school until vaccinated or the pandemic ends.

Not claiming any differences between younger/older children's immune systems, just vastly different levels of risk from the virus, depending on age. Older children appear to be at multiple times more risk from covid than are younger kids. Do you really have no concerns, at all, about vaccinating children of any age? How about infants? Would you be okay having your 2 or 3 month old infant vaccinated for covid?

Probably not at that age since most vaccines are not effective, but once they are the standard age for getting immunizations (depending on the vaccine, 18 months to 3 years), yes. Especially if they have any health conditions.

Abe

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1025 on: July 27, 2021, 07:24:36 PM »
In the counties surrounding Houston, 60%+ of people 12 years and older are vaccinated, yet we are still having a surge of hospitalizations. Anecdotally, several of my colleagues who are fully vaccinated (we received them in December) have developed symptomatic COVID in the last few weeks, along with their children. The vaccination rate at our hospital is >95%, and in the neighborhood we live in >90%. Ugh.

About 1/5 of ICU patients in the county are hospitalized for COVID-19 (better than the 50% in February). We were down to ~250 inpatients in June, but now back to ~1000. Since start of the pandemic, about 8% of inpatients die.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 07:27:52 PM by Abe »

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1026 on: July 27, 2021, 10:40:12 PM »
I feel like a lot of the debate about whether to vaccinate or not revolves around flawed math.

People see vaccinating as a very, very small chance of significant negative side effects (0.007%) times 100% chance of getting the vaccine if they choose it, or 0% chance if they don’t choose it.  So they’re choosing either 0.007% or 0.000%. So they choose 0.000% and think they’re being smart.

That’s flawed logic. The real math (for children) is 0.1% to 1.9% chance of hospitalization times a non-zero chance of infection. What is the actual chance of infection?  It depends on the time period. Extend the time period out let’s say 12 months, and I would bet the chance of infection is 50%. So, the math is 0.1% to 1.9% times 50%, which is 0.05% to 0.95%.

So, by choosing to get vaccinated, you’re choosing a 0.007% change of significant negative side effects. If you choose not to get vaccinated, you’re choosing 0.05% to 0.95% change of significant negative impacts. That’s 7 to 135 times as risky to not get your kids vaccinated.

We will be vaccinating our kids as soon as they are eligible.

elaine amj

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1027 on: July 31, 2021, 05:44:11 PM »
I knew the math assessing risks between covid and vaccines had to be done this way - but am not smart enough to figure it out. So thanks @Taran Wanderer !

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Zamboni

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1028 on: July 31, 2021, 06:50:41 PM »
I didn't hesitate to take my 12 year old daughter in to our local pharmacy to get vaccinated as soon as she became eligible, as it seemed to me like the risk of her getting covid was worse than any possible risks from the vaccine, but I don't know if I would've been as eager to get an infant or toddler vaccinated for covid. It's completely unclear to me that any possible benefits of vaccinating an infant, or very young child, would outweigh the risks. Too many unknowns.

@Shane It's important to remember that the normal time to be vaccinated for most diseases is when one is an infant or young child. Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, etc.: the vast majority of us received those vaccines before we get to elementary school age. Those diseases are terrible. For example, my grandmother caught Rubella when pregnant, which caused a serious birth defect in my uncle who was a fetus at the time. My Mom caught Polio as a child right before the vaccine and has post-polio paralysis symptoms to this day. Infants still die of whooping cough in the US . . . usually they catch it from unvaccinated relatives.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is: do you vaccinate your young children for those diseases? Having seen the effects of those diseases on my family, I really hope you do. And, as an extension, I hope that you will trust our amazing scientists and medical professionals when they finally decide to tell you that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe for your young kids. Those professionals really do care about you and your family, believe it or not, because people who don't care about other people don't generally become health care workers or virologists. Peace, out.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 06:53:22 PM by Zamboni »

TomTX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1029 on: July 31, 2021, 07:40:00 PM »
Since the subject has turned to COVID and kids, I found this article interesting:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/the-kids-were-safe-from-covid-the-whole-time.html

Kids have gotten infected at lower rates, and their symptoms have been less severe than other age groups pretty universally during the pandemic. The risks that COVID poses for those under 18, and especially those younger than 12 are less than or equal to the flu for the same age group. If you weren't masking up your little one 2 years ago to reduce their risk of getting the flu or pneumonia, then I'm not sure it's logical to mask them up now. For the same reasons, if you weren't personally masking up to reduce their risk of catching those things then, then it seems inconsistent to do so now. The risks are the same in both scenarios, we're just more sensitive to the risk now.

My kid has gotten the flu vaccine every year, and all other recommended vaccines - including pneumonia. They are too young for the COVID vaccine. See the difference? If a vaccine is unavailable, masking is a reasonable mitigation method rather than throwing up your hands and doing nothing.

Masking when feeling even mildly sick or during flu season is common in other countries, and would be a very responsible thing to do here. We avoided something like 40,000 flu deaths in the USA last season due to COVID precautions. Roughly the same number as deaths from auto crashes.

Shane

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1030 on: July 31, 2021, 08:03:11 PM »
I didn't hesitate to take my 12 year old daughter in to our local pharmacy to get vaccinated as soon as she became eligible, as it seemed to me like the risk of her getting covid was worse than any possible risks from the vaccine, but I don't know if I would've been as eager to get an infant or toddler vaccinated for covid. It's completely unclear to me that any possible benefits of vaccinating an infant, or very young child, would outweigh the risks. Too many unknowns.

@Shane It's important to remember that the normal time to be vaccinated for most diseases is when one is an infant or young child. Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Polio, etc.: the vast majority of us received those vaccines before we get to elementary school age. Those diseases are terrible. For example, my grandmother caught Rubella when pregnant, which caused a serious birth defect in my uncle who was a fetus at the time. My Mom caught Polio as a child right before the vaccine and has post-polio paralysis symptoms to this day. Infants still die of whooping cough in the US . . . usually they catch it from unvaccinated relatives.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is: do you vaccinate your young children for those diseases? Having seen the effects of those diseases on my family, I really hope you do. And, as an extension, I hope that you will trust our amazing scientists and medical professionals when they finally decide to tell you that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe for your young kids. Those professionals really do care about you and your family, believe it or not, because people who don't care about other people don't generally become health care workers or virologists. Peace, out.

Yes, of course, our daughter has gotten all of the normal, recommended vaccines like MMR, polio, whooping cough, chicken pox, hepatitis, pneumonia, etc. Those vaccines have all been around for a while, so have been proven to be effective and relatively safe. The covid vaccines, otoh, have only been in existence for a very short time. They're not even fully approved, yet, by the FDA. So, while my wife, daughter and I all got vaccinated, as soon as we became eligible, since the risk of covid seemed greater than the unknown risk of the vaccines, if we had younger children, who were completely healthy and, therefore, at almost zero risk from covid, my preference would probably be to wait, at least some months, maybe longer, to allow more data to be collected and more studies to be completed, before rushing out to get my very young child vaccinated. ymmv.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1031 on: July 31, 2021, 08:29:25 PM »
Since the subject has turned to COVID and kids, I found this article interesting:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/the-kids-were-safe-from-covid-the-whole-time.html

Kids have gotten infected at lower rates, and their symptoms have been less severe than other age groups pretty universally during the pandemic. The risks that COVID poses for those under 18, and especially those younger than 12 are less than or equal to the flu for the same age group. If you weren't masking up your little one 2 years ago to reduce their risk of getting the flu or pneumonia, then I'm not sure it's logical to mask them up now. For the same reasons, if you weren't personally masking up to reduce their risk of catching those things then, then it seems inconsistent to do so now. The risks are the same in both scenarios, we're just more sensitive to the risk now.

My kid has gotten the flu vaccine every year, and all other recommended vaccines - including pneumonia. They are too young for the COVID vaccine. See the difference? If a vaccine is unavailable, masking is a reasonable mitigation method rather than throwing up your hands and doing nothing.

Masking when feeling even mildly sick or during flu season is common in other countries, and would be a very responsible thing to do here. We avoided something like 40,000 flu deaths in the USA last season due to COVID precautions. Roughly the same number as deaths from auto crashes.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. Wearing masks is horrible for our country and the world. Not just because masks are uncomfortable, but because they separate people from each other. Humans are social creatures. Facial expressions often convey more meaning than the words people speak. In the US, even before covid, loneliness and social isolation were huge problems. Everyone wearing masks for the past year and a half has only made things worse. Because covid was an emergency, my family and I all wore masks, wherever we were required to do so, all throughout the pandemic. We've also spent several years living in Asia, where, as you mentioned, some people routinely wear masks when they have a cold or if they are concerned about catching the flu. I hated dealing with masked people in Asia in the 90s, when we lived there, and I hated wearing masks and trying to communicate with people wearing masks, all during covid. If you work in a hospital, or in an emergency situation, where there's a novel virus that nobody knows for sure how many people are going to die from it, and there are valid concerns about hospitals being over run with really sick patients, then, yeah, maybe masks make sense, but not for the longer term. A big part of why fewer people contracted the flu during covid was because of social distancing. People who were at high risk of dying from covid and the flu stayed home, avoided visiting with friends, children and grandchildren. Were some people prevented from getting the flu last winter, because they wore masks? Probably a few, but I'm guessing the much bigger factor was the social distancing, and that definitely wasn't without costs. The sooner we can all throw our masks into the rubbish can, the better, afaic.

TomTX

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1032 on: August 01, 2021, 08:11:39 AM »
Sounds like a lot of attempts at self-justifying that you don't like masks.

I'm not fond of masks either - but they're really NBD compared to the P100 respirator I would wear for a full work day.

wenchsenior

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1033 on: August 01, 2021, 11:13:11 AM »
Since the subject has turned to COVID and kids, I found this article interesting:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/the-kids-were-safe-from-covid-the-whole-time.html

Kids have gotten infected at lower rates, and their symptoms have been less severe than other age groups pretty universally during the pandemic. The risks that COVID poses for those under 18, and especially those younger than 12 are less than or equal to the flu for the same age group. If you weren't masking up your little one 2 years ago to reduce their risk of getting the flu or pneumonia, then I'm not sure it's logical to mask them up now. For the same reasons, if you weren't personally masking up to reduce their risk of catching those things then, then it seems inconsistent to do so now. The risks are the same in both scenarios, we're just more sensitive to the risk now.

My kid has gotten the flu vaccine every year, and all other recommended vaccines - including pneumonia. They are too young for the COVID vaccine. See the difference? If a vaccine is unavailable, masking is a reasonable mitigation method rather than throwing up your hands and doing nothing.

Masking when feeling even mildly sick or during flu season is common in other countries, and would be a very responsible thing to do here. We avoided something like 40,000 flu deaths in the USA last season due to COVID precautions. Roughly the same number as deaths from auto crashes.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. Wearing masks is horrible for our country and the world. Not just because masks are uncomfortable, but because they separate people from each other. Humans are social creatures. Facial expressions often convey more meaning than the words people speak. In the US, even before covid, loneliness and social isolation were huge problems. Everyone wearing masks for the past year and a half has only made things worse. Because covid was an emergency, my family and I all wore masks, wherever we were required to do so, all throughout the pandemic. We've also spent several years living in Asia, where, as you mentioned, some people routinely wear masks when they have a cold or if they are concerned about catching the flu. I hated dealing with masked people in Asia in the 90s, when we lived there, and I hated wearing masks and trying to communicate with people wearing masks, all during covid. If you work in a hospital, or in an emergency situation, where there's a novel virus that nobody knows for sure how many people are going to die from it, and there are valid concerns about hospitals being over run with really sick patients, then, yeah, maybe masks make sense, but not for the longer term. A big part of why fewer people contracted the flu during covid was because of social distancing. People who were at high risk of dying from covid and the flu stayed home, avoided visiting with friends, children and grandchildren. Were some people prevented from getting the flu last winter, because they wore masks? Probably a few, but I'm guessing the much bigger factor was the social distancing, and that definitely wasn't without costs. The sooner we can all throw our masks into the rubbish can, the better, afaic.

This sounds like more of a personal issue you have, which you are broadly projecting onto the population at large. Neither I nor any of my circle have felt this level of social discomfort from masking (though it is occasionally physically annoying).  I can see where it might be an issue for little kids still developing social skills, but I don't relate to any of your other issues at all.  In fact overall, I have the opposite impression...social distancing is the potentially damaging thing for some peoples' psychological health (not mine or my husbands or most of my family...in fact we've been thriving, but I can see why it would be a problem for some or even most people); whereas, the masks strike me as the thing that would allow us (society) to somewhat overcome the need for damaging social distancing.   

DaMa

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1034 on: August 01, 2021, 12:37:32 PM »
I disagree.  I'd be happy to wear masks in public forever if it meant not getting sick with colds and flu.  I wish we would do like they do in Asia and wear them whenever we are sick.

The part I don't like is my glasses fogging up, but I could probably find a better mask if I tried.

Botany Bae

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1035 on: August 01, 2021, 12:51:52 PM »

Sorry, but I completely disagree. Wearing masks is horrible for our country and the world. Not just because masks are uncomfortable, but because they separate people from each other. Humans are social creatures. Facial expressions often convey more meaning than the words people speak. In the US, even before covid, loneliness and social isolation were huge problems.

It's not an either-or situation, where you mask all the time or not at all. When it comes to wearing a mask for seasonal flu/colds, it's just for a couple of days, not for 18+ months. Just those few days when you feel well enough to get back out and about but aren't quite over the sniffles sort of thing.

Further, one of the major issues that has lead to loneliness and social isolation is an individualistic culture that we have now seen, judging by how so many have behaved during the pandemic, has erred all the way into pure selfishness. More communal behavior would see people caring about each other up to and including wearing a mask for a few days when they have a cold. As a communal culture, we would also likely experience much less loneliness and isolation as a whole.

Mr. Green

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1036 on: August 01, 2021, 02:18:14 PM »
Add me to the cohort that have felt zero social impact from masking. I've been plenty of places, conversing with plenty of people. Emotions can just as easily be derived from voice tone as facial expressions. Masks don't have to be isolating at all, unless you let them stop you from going places.

Shane

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1037 on: August 02, 2021, 04:41:25 AM »
Obviously, masking a few days a year when one has a cold wouldn't be a big imposition on anyone. My objection was to the myth that masking alone will make much of a difference. The social distancing part of our response to covid was the main reason flu deaths were down in 2020, not masks. In the US, paid sick leave, so people could stay home when they didn't feel well, would have a much bigger positive impact on public health than continuing to go to work while sick, but just wearing a cloth mask, as if that makes any difference. It doesn't. The social distancing part of our national response to covid is what I'm saying is unhealthy for the country. It was necessary, for a time, to prevent our healthcare system from being overrun, but it needs to stop eventually.

former player

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1038 on: August 02, 2021, 04:55:12 AM »
Cloth masks make some difference but not a lot. A proper FFP2 or FFP3 mask is not expensive, no more difficult to wear than a cloth mask, and worn properly can be 100% effective against transmission.

Outside I practise social distancing but don't wear a mask.  Inside except in my own home I wear a mask.  That might change if infection rates get low but I'll want to see what happens this autumn first.

Rosy

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1039 on: August 02, 2021, 05:52:27 AM »
Obviously, masking a few days a year when one has a cold wouldn't be a big imposition on anyone. My objection was to the myth that masking alone will make much of a difference. The social distancing part of our response to covid was the main reason flu deaths were down in 2020, not masks. In the US, paid sick leave, so people could stay home when they didn't feel well, would have a much bigger positive impact on public health than continuing to go to work while sick, but just wearing a cloth mask, as if that makes any difference. It doesn't. The social distancing part of our national response to covid is what I'm saying is unhealthy for the country. It was necessary, for a time, to prevent our healthcare system from being overrun, but it needs to stop eventually.

Florida has become a Delta epicenter - I will wear a mask again, sigh or grrr..., despite our governor's campaign of selling T-shirts disparaging Fauci.
This pandemic isn't over, there seems to be a new super strain in Peru. Florida welcomes the world with open arms and it is bringing us gifts.
We all have pandemic fatigue and we all know people who refuse to become vaccinated.

I have no sympathy for anyone who gets severely ill because they chose not to get vaccinated. They contributed to the continued spread and aided the virus by giving it more time to develop killer variants.
They might be nice people like my yard guy who thinks he is invincible and speaks of secret gov't chip implants ...

OtherJen

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1040 on: August 02, 2021, 06:52:59 AM »
Obviously, masking a few days a year when one has a cold wouldn't be a big imposition on anyone. My objection was to the myth that masking alone will make much of a difference. The social distancing part of our response to covid was the main reason flu deaths were down in 2020, not masks. In the US, paid sick leave, so people could stay home when they didn't feel well, would have a much bigger positive impact on public health than continuing to go to work while sick, but just wearing a cloth mask, as if that makes any difference. It doesn't. The social distancing part of our national response to covid is what I'm saying is unhealthy for the country. It was necessary, for a time, to prevent our healthcare system from being overrun, but it needs to stop eventually.

Florida has become a Delta epicenter - I will wear a mask again, sigh or grrr..., despite our governor's campaign of selling T-shirts disparaging Fauci.
This pandemic isn't over, there seems to be a new super strain in Peru. Florida welcomes the world with open arms and it is bringing us gifts.
We all have pandemic fatigue and we all know people who refuse to become vaccinated.

I have no sympathy for anyone who gets severely ill because they chose not to get vaccinated. They contributed to the continued spread and aided the virus by giving it more time to develop killer variants.
They might be nice people like my yard guy who thinks he is invincible and speaks of secret gov't chip implants ...

He must think it’s the mark of the beast. During my dad’s fundie phase (when I was a teenager in the 90s), I heard over and over from televangelists, Dad, and even one of those garbage Left Behind books that the One World Order was going to forcibly implant microchips in us, and anyone who refused would be persecuted, etc., before God raptured them and destroyed everyone else. Some believe that vaccines are the delivery vehicle for these New World Order microchips. (One hilarious aside is that the insane one-world dictator in the Left Behind books resembled Putin, the right-wing darling, if I’m remembering correctly.)

This is the result of 40 years of end-times rapture evangelical brainwashing. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to suffer for their delusions.

SunnyDays

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1041 on: August 02, 2021, 11:02:19 AM »
Obviously, masking a few days a year when one has a cold wouldn't be a big imposition on anyone. My objection was to the myth that masking alone will make much of a difference. The social distancing part of our response to covid was the main reason flu deaths were down in 2020, not masks. In the US, paid sick leave, so people could stay home when they didn't feel well, would have a much bigger positive impact on public health than continuing to go to work while sick, but just wearing a cloth mask, as if that makes any difference. It doesn't. The social distancing part of our national response to covid is what I'm saying is unhealthy for the country. It was necessary, for a time, to prevent our healthcare system from being overrun, but it needs to stop eventually.

Florida has become a Delta epicenter - I will wear a mask again, sigh or grrr..., despite our governor's campaign of selling T-shirts disparaging Fauci.
This pandemic isn't over, there seems to be a new super strain in Peru. Florida welcomes the world with open arms and it is bringing us gifts.
We all have pandemic fatigue and we all know people who refuse to become vaccinated.

I have no sympathy for anyone who gets severely ill because they chose not to get vaccinated. They contributed to the continued spread and aided the virus by giving it more time to develop killer variants.
They might be nice people like my yard guy who thinks he is invincible and speaks of secret gov't chip implants ...

He must think it’s the mark of the beast. During my dad’s fundie phase (when I was a teenager in the 90s), I heard over and over from televangelists, Dad, and even one of those garbage Left Behind books that the One World Order was going to forcibly implant microchips in us, and anyone who refused would be persecuted, etc., before God raptured them and destroyed everyone else. Some believe that vaccines are the delivery vehicle for these New World Order microchips. (One hilarious aside is that the insane one-world dictator in the Left Behind books resembled Putin, the right-wing darling, if I’m remembering correctly.)

This is the result of 40 years of end-times rapture evangelical brainwashing. Unfortunately, the rest of us have to suffer for their delusions.


I see you've met my neighbours.

Zamboni

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1042 on: August 09, 2021, 01:18:27 AM »
Masking is truly a bummer if you are hearing impaired and rely on lip reading. If that is your situation, then you have my sympathy. Please just let me know you'd like me to pull my mask down so you can see me speak and I will oblige with proper distance, of course.

For everyone else: you wear your mask and I'll wear mine. It's just not that hard. Stop being a complainypants about something so trivial.

mistymoney

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1043 on: August 09, 2021, 08:19:48 AM »
Masking is truly a bummer if you are hearing impaired and rely on lip reading. If that is your situation, then you have my sympathy. Please just let me know you'd like me to pull my mask down so you can see me speak and I will oblige with proper distance, of course.

For everyone else: you wear your mask and I'll wear mine. It's just not that hard. Stop being a complainypants about something so trivial.

here, here!

v8rx7guy

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1044 on: August 09, 2021, 08:54:25 AM »
Masking is truly a bummer if you are hearing impaired and rely on lip reading. If that is your situation, then you have my sympathy. Please just let me know you'd like me to pull my mask down so you can see me speak and I will oblige with proper distance, of course.

For everyone else: you wear your mask and I'll wear mine. It's just not that hard. Stop being a complainypants about something so trivial.

I disagree.  For everyone else, wear a P95 or N95 if you don't want to contract covid, then you don't have to worry about what anyone else is doing.  The supply does not need to be protected and they are readily available.  The "I wear to protect you, you wear to protect me" is a phrase that on should have existed for the cloth masking stage.  At this stage, I will be a complainy pants if you tell me (a fully vaccinated person) to wear a mask.

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1045 on: August 09, 2021, 09:19:34 AM »
IMHO we've crossed the finish line and we're overdue to resume normal life. How many times were we told "a vaccine is coming, then life can be normal again"? Well we've waited over a year and finally gotten to that point. We have multiple vaccines which EVERY adult in first world countries have easy access to, proven to reduce death by 99%! Shame that people are still going to ICU and dying right now but it's no longer our public liability.

Myself, my family, and my friends are all vaxxed. We follow mask mandates when required. But what's the goal for normality? Eradicating COVID completely? Never going to happen and we can't keep moving the finish line further and further.

I understand this viewpoint is very unpopular here, but seriously, it's time to wake up and be real.

GuitarStv

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1046 on: August 09, 2021, 09:29:47 AM »
IMHO we've crossed the finish line and we're overdue to resume normal life. How many times were we told "a vaccine is coming, then life can be normal again"? Well we've waited over a year and finally gotten to that point. We have multiple vaccines which EVERY adult in first world countries have easy access to, proven to reduce death by 99%! Shame on people going to ICU and dying right now but it's no longer our public liability.

Myself, my family, and my friends are all vaxxed. We follow mask mandates when required. But what's the goal for normality? Eradicating COVID completely? Never going to happen and we can't keep moving the finish line further and further.

I understand this viewpoint is very unpopular here, but seriously, it's time to wake up and be real.

I think that many adults in Austrialia, Japan, New Zealand, and Switzerland would disagree with your assessment of ease of getting vaccine in first world countries.

:P

The 585

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1047 on: August 09, 2021, 10:26:25 AM »
IMHO we've crossed the finish line and we're overdue to resume normal life. How many times were we told "a vaccine is coming, then life can be normal again"? Well we've waited over a year and finally gotten to that point. We have multiple vaccines which EVERY adult in first world countries have easy access to, proven to reduce death by 99%! Shame on people going to ICU and dying right now but it's no longer our public liability.

Myself, my family, and my friends are all vaxxed. We follow mask mandates when required. But what's the goal for normality? Eradicating COVID completely? Never going to happen and we can't keep moving the finish line further and further.

I understand this viewpoint is very unpopular here, but seriously, it's time to wake up and be real.

I think that many adults in Austrialia, Japan, New Zealand, and Switzerland would disagree with your assessment of ease of getting vaccine in first world countries.

:P

Good point, my focus was overly emphasized on US/Canada/EU.

habanero

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1048 on: August 09, 2021, 11:42:30 AM »
Good point, my focus was overly emphasized on US/Canada/EU.

We get vaccines via the EU purchase programme and so far 48% of the adult population is fully vaxxed (88% one dose). Our CDC expects to be done probably mid/end september or so and aim for a rate around 90% of adults. So its getting there but it's not like you can just choose to get your final shot. We have a queue and Im currently on track for late august for my 2nd jab and there is no way I can get it earlier as I just have to wait until Im summoned. Not that I worry personally, but still limited supply is an issue, otherwise they would have done it faster.

But I do agree the goalposts have been moved. By a lot.

Cranky

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Re: Coronavirus preparedness
« Reply #1049 on: August 09, 2021, 02:23:06 PM »
My goal is to have as normal a school year as possible, and if masks will help that, I’m on board.