Author Topic: Contemplating divorce  (Read 21905 times)

firenow

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Contemplating divorce
« on: March 08, 2018, 10:52:07 PM »
Hi MMM,

My husband and I are this close to FIRE but we've always had fights about money. Mainly because he thinks family comes first and wants to give money to his parents, siblings, etc since he earns more than them. Since we are high earners (our gross income is 400-500k per year), we have a sizeable stash (1.5 million and a paid off house in HCOL) at a relatively young age (32 and 30). We also have two young kids and I want to spend time with them and FIRE. His family is wealthy and don't need our help. But my husband insists on giving money to them every month out of a sense of commitment. As a result my in-laws have inflated their expenses a lot. My husband now wants to work another ten/twenty years (basically till in-laws are alive) to provide for them. I tried a year sabbatical and it ended up I was doing all the chores at home while he went to work and relaxed. I just ended up being a glorified maid. So I don't think me FIREing alone would help. He is a great person otherwise (even though we have some differences of opinion) and a good dad but working for ten/twenty more years to fund someone else's lifestyle is making me sick. Our work is high stress and I worry about our health and the toll the jobs take on our family. I don't want to die early and leave my kids alone. My husband says family will take care of them because that is what families do. Even if that's true, I want to see my kids grow up, see them get married and have kids. I'm wondering if it would be better if we separate (we'd still end up with enough for both to FIRE separately).

I can try staying home but putting kids in school/daycare but that defeats the purpose of wanting to be with kids and having fun with them. I have suggested marital counseling but he just walls up when I bring up any suggestion of reducing the amount we give (it started at $1000 per month and has now ballooned to most of his paycheck, once we hit our FI number, he wants to give all his paycheck or at least as much as he can to his family since we have enough to be FI) or go to marital counseling or discuss how to have a better life for all of us. At this point I'm just defeated and want out. But I don't know what all issues might come if one is divorced and am wondering if I should just accept it and let go since he is a great person/husband/dad otherwise. But my health is making me explore all options before accepting to work for another ten/twenty years.

I'd love to hear if there any other options we haven't thought about.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 11:01:12 PM by firenow »

remizidae

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 11:51:57 PM »
I wonder if you're being too quick to dismiss the option of early retirement for you alone? I know you said that you tried that and wound up doing all the chores and feeling like a maid, but, if you were to separate, you would still have to do all the housework and (depending on custody) a significant amount of childcare too. If your overall goal is to spend time with the kids, then having to do housework shouldn't be a determining factor.

Also, there is a middle ground between not working at all and working in a high pay/high stress position! Is there a career adjacent to yours with shorter hours or lower pressure?

pk_aeryn

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 11:52:34 PM »
Oof this is tough.

When you got married, did you both share FIRE goals?

Is it possible he's giving that much money to his family because he genuinely wants to keep working and doesn't know what else to do with his money?  Or is it really common in whatever ethnicity/culture he is to be a provider to the whole family)

If he does continue working and giving his whole paycheck to his family, but you are not working, what do your expenses look like?  Would it be affordable to hire a maid so neither of you have to clean?  I realize that may not be the most Mustachian answer, but if that was really the only thing that made you dislike being retired while he worked....

Final thought is, you say he's a good dad and a good person but do you still love him? 

chrisgermany

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2018, 12:06:25 AM »
If you still love him I would try to seperate your finances.
Divide your assets equally or according to who paid into it.
Identify your shared monthly cost base. This may include maid service. Pay all cost out of an account that is funded by a portion of each salary.
Then each of you is free to do what they want with the remaining salary and their own assets.
There are some people here that work on FI alone while a partner does not share the goal.
It may work if none insists on joint income and assets.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2018, 03:06:17 AM »
Difficult situation.

I do think you do need counselling. It is very unsettling that one partner wants to give away his income to a family that doesn't need it, against your will. As I see it, married people own their money together. One should not be able to spend half of it on something the spouse heavily disagrees on.
I also think your husband might have an issue, wanting to give away his money to people who don't need it. Maybe he feels to guilty earning more than he needs. Wouldn't it be better if he gave it to any form charity that would put his money to better use?

As others have mentioned, don't underestimate what it is like to be a single mother. Separating your finances sounds like a better solution. But this issue definitively needs to be resolved, as you cannot continue living with someone you disagree so much with.

Padrepapp

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2018, 03:11:12 AM »
Consider any subotpimal solution for the sake of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGUQCK2KGhg

Seperating finances is one of those suboptimal solution temporarly. This could be like a cease fire situation, but the war is won when you are married in finances too again.
Don't be a maid, or include the cost of hiring one into your FIRE plan.
Tell your husband his children needs him more than his other family members. Or to be more precise, his children needs him, and his family does not need him. He is only convenient for them. If he does not support them, or only to a smaller amount, they will get along, but the children needs his attention now. If he is in high stress job they won't get any meaningful attention from him, except if he is a superhero, which may be the case.
Push marital counseling until he accepts it that you should go. Don't make an ultimatum about it like "Either we divorce, or we go to counseling" rather, just push it until he approves.
Talk about it. Like a lot. Hours and days. both of you should write pros and cons and weight them. Ask your husband to weight his childrens' needs and his family's conveniency. He should really think about that.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2018, 06:11:42 AM »
I'm a domestic relations attorney, and while I'm a young one, my observation is that the number one thing that leads to a person calling me about a divorce/dissolution is a lack of communication.  This in turn leads to each spouse making negative assumptions about the other spouse, which in turn leads to a failure of trust, which in turn leads things to compounding and spiraling out of control until their negative assumptions prove unsolvable, upon which time they pick up the phone and call me.

OP, I don't walk in your shoes and I don't live your life, but your post just seems to have a lot of these types of assumptions.

My husband now wants to work another ten/twenty years (basically till in-laws are alive) to provide for them.

I certainly think a discussion needs to be had about how much money he is sending to his family, but with that said, are you sure this is the sole reason he wants to keep working? Sure, he might be flowing a lot of money towards his family, but is that alone proof that it's the sole reason he wants to continue working? I know plenty of people with FU money who continue to work in very high stress jobs because they either enjoy the job itself or the sense of purpose it provides.

I tried a year sabbatical and it ended up I was doing all the chores at home while he went to work and relaxed. I just ended up being a glorified maid. So I don't think me FIREing alone would help.

He went to work and relaxed? I thought you said his job is "high stress"?   Maybe you mean he went to work and then came home and relaxed, but in that case, I think that's a fair trade in a relationship.  I work about 45-55 hours a week, and my wife works 25-30 hours a week.  She does all the grocery shopping, laundry, dishes, etc.  I still put my own clothes away, put the dishes away, do all the yard work, etc. (what a hero I am), but when one spouse works less than the other, doing more chores around the house only seems fair to me.

He is a great person otherwise (even though we have some differences of opinion) and a good dad but working for ten/twenty more years to fund someone else's lifestyle is making me sick. Our work is high stress and I worry about our health and the toll the jobs take on our family. I don't want to die early and leave my kids alone. My husband says family will take care of them because that is what families do. Even if that's true, I want to see my kids grow up, see them get married and have kids. I'm wondering if it would be better if we separate (we'd still end up with enough for both to FIRE separately).

As the son of divorced parents, I would encourage you to do anything and everything to resolve this issue prior to filing for a divorce/dissolution. It will absolutely not be better for your kids if you separate. It will be a PERMANENT pain in the ass for your kids. I'm 30 and still get annoyed scheduling things around the holidays.


But here's the biggest issue I see: you yourself took a sabbatical, and all that led to was you feeling like a "glorified maid" (as you put it).  Is it possible that your husband observed you and your emotions during your brief FIRE (which is what it was), saw that you were unhappy, and wants no part of that himself?

One of the most underappreciated aspects of FIRE is, well, what the hell are you going to do with your time?  I personally struggle with this mightily.  I'll probably work out, take long walks, read books, fix some things around the house, volunteer at my local park, coach some sports...and then what? I'll still have a ton more time. I've ultimately decided that I'll probably continue practicing as an attorney to keep myself sharp and busy.

It sounds like you don't know what you want with FIRE yet, and that's an internal issue. But no doubt, this financial issue with your husband is something you really need to work on.  Whether this comes through counseling or a frank discussion, I'm not sure, but I encourage you to really start afresh with him.  Others with more lengthy marriages will have better insight than I do, but maybe propose the following:

(1) He maxes 401k every year;
(2) He maxes child college savings every year;
(3) He maxes all tax-advantaged accounts every year;
(4) He brings enough take home pay to cover monthly expenses (which allows your nest egg to balloon); and
(5) The remainder can be up to his discretion.

You could obviously tweak this, but this concretely forces him to put your family first, which seems to be your biggest priority (and rightfully so).

As you indicated, he's otherwise a good spouse, person, and dad. Those don't fall off trees, so I hope you can work out both your marital issues and your FIRE goals.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 06:21:41 AM by ReadySetMillionaire »

Lady SA

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2018, 08:41:06 AM »
I'm confused, when you suggested marital counseling, did you pitch it to him as "I want counseling so we can figure out how to fix you/not give your family money?" or "I want counseling so we can learn better communication skills"? One is going to be a lot more successful than the other. If he feels like you are attacking him, of course he is going to wall up.

Perhaps individual counseling (for yourself) would be a good use of time, especially if your husband doesn't cooperate with couples counseling. Individual counseling can help you explore your options, build communication skills, set stronger boundaries, form healthier relationships, etc. I have been in individual counseling for 3 years and have made great strides in my relationships with my family and husband. Alternatively, you can find a couples counselor on your own (vet them, there are good ones and bad ones, don't be surprised if you go through 2-3 before finding a good fit), and simply set up an appointment and invite your husband along.

I get the distinct impression from your post that your marriage suffers from a severe lack of communication (you may be speaking to each other but not communicating and understanding each other) and holding negative assumptions/filtering the other's actions through a filter of "malicious intent". As ReadySetMillionaire mentions, negative assumptions about your spouse's intentions can lead to more negative assumptions, lack of trust, and relationship breakdown. A neutral, third party counselor for yourself where you can vent and examine your assumptions to see if they are true would be valuable, and you can work on being healthy and strengthening relationships.

Seems like you have three things you are struggling with. A sense of financial abandonment (him giving money to his family is threatening to you in some way), a desire to spend more time with him and you perceive that he is resisting (the desire for him to slow down, FIRE, spend time with you and your children), and the fact that he is making major financial decisions with income without your input/against your wishes. These are separate, but are pretty emotional subjects.

I would suggest LISTENING to your husband. Sit down with some coffee and cookies and ask him questions about what he wants, what his intentions are, his goals. Don't listen to answer or judge or convince him of your side instead. Just listen, absorb, take notes if you want, but this conversation isn't about you. It is about figuring out him and what he actually wants and means. You may have to have a few of these conversations to eek out his true intentions and thoughts. When he says something that you don't understand or you jump to a negative assumption, CHECK IT OUT. Ask him "did you mean you don't like to spend time with me and our children when you say you want to keep working for the next 20 years?" And trust me he will splutter and be bewildered because of course not!! Let him explain himself and then move on.

On your own, ask yourself some hard questions and examine your feelings about it. Why is FIREing together so important to you? What are your true goals that FIREing will enable? What do you want to do when you FIRE? Does it require that he FIRE too? What is it that is threatening about him sending his family money? Is it the amount? Is it that you feel financially insecure? Is it that if feels as if he prioritizes his extended family over you and your children (is that true in real life?)? Is it that he is neglecting to adequately provide for you and your children? For the financial decision making, is it normal that he has this much control over finances, or is this the one area that he controls? Is he in charge of household finances, or do you share that duty? Does he feel that the income is "his" money, not "ours" and so doesn't seek your input?

Then later, sit down with him and lay out his wants with your wants, and figure out a compromise. Couples do this all the time, and you can too. This would be another great thing that an individual counselor can assist you with.
Focus on "I" statements. as in, "I feel __(like you don't care about me, financially insecure, whatever)__when you send money to your family." "I feel ____(scared, abandoned, whatever)___ when you say you want to keep working." "I feel __(upset, angry, helpless, like you don't care about what I want, whatever)__ when you make major financial decisions against my wishes and/or without my input." Keep it factual and non-accusatory, which is difficult with emotional subjects. Plan these statements in advance. Likely, you could invite your husband to your individual session and your counselor can help you communicate and keep things from going off the rails, and I really recommend this option.
Come into the conversation with some specific asks of him that would make you feel more comfortable. Your counselor can help you explore this and frame it.

Likely you will want to ask for:
1. For the financial decision making issue, agree that income is household/shared income and that means that you get input into how it is allocated
2. For the money/financial issue, he should maxes savings/retirement accounts for the both of you and cover all living expenses, then a portion goes into his & hers "fun" money, and then anything left over can be sent to his family. Basically, provide for everything your nuclear family needs before his extended family, but you recognize/respect his values too. This is just a question of prioritization and you need agreement and action that your nuclear family comes first and his parents come second (but are still on the list).
3. for the time with children/you issue, maybe you can request he go down to part time instead of full-time, or find a less stressful position, etc. There is a lot of space between "Fully FIRE and never work again" and "Working full time and no time for family". Find the compromise that works for both of you.

He will likely want:
1. an agreement that his family is still provided for in some fashion because it sounds like family is one of his core values
2. you be ok with him working in some fashion for the next decade or so to enable #1

I hope all that makes sense. Good luck!!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 08:45:38 AM by Lady SA »

blinx7

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2018, 09:00:57 AM »
It seems like you could solve a lot of this as follows:

1.  Develop some ground principles about what money is shared, what money is yours, and what money is his.

2.  He should be able to give AT LEAST SOME money to his family, simply for no other reason than because he should be able to have control over at least some portion of the money anyways, even if he wanted to spend it on a truckload of skittles.  On the other hand, giving ALL of his paycheck seems excessive -- if he does that, is he carrying his weight with respect to the shared portion of the finances (let alone household / kid duties)? 

3.  You should hire a maid to reduce fights about chores.  You could have the maid come once a month.  Then also have ground rules about who does what in the meantime.

4.  If he wants to work and make money he doesn't need and give SOME (not ALL) of it to his family, and you want to FIRE and not do that, I don't see the problem.  You have enough money for both.

I agree you both need counseling for communications skills.  I see a reasonable path forward even if the two of you don't. 

I understand it bothers you that he is giving away money when he doesn't need to, but if he is earning a lot of the money himself and that's how he wants to spend it and he isn't asking you to work to earn it I think you need to have some flexibility here.  But he can't just work around the clock and then push all the money out the door -- that's not being a partner. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 09:04:28 AM by blinx7 »

PensacolaStache

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2018, 09:06:46 AM »
I'm hearing a lot of excuses from you.

In one sentence, you victimized yourself as doing all the chores during your sabbatical while he "went to work and relaxed." Then you proceed to tell us that BOTH of your jobs are high stress.  Explain to me exactly where he relaxed then?  Was work less stressful then? 

It really sounds like you need something more than marital help (which is odd that that's the first thing everyone is recommending).  You have an effin' job that pays you more than like 80 percent of Americans and that offers you a sabbatical. And you complain about doing HOUSEHOLD CHORES?  Yeah, crazy thought - doing laundry and dishes when you are above that.

And can you confirm that he gives most of his paycheck to his family?  I'm assuming you are in similar fields so I'll assume he makes $200,000.  Are you telling us that he gives more than 50 percent of his paycheck to his family?  If so, separate finances - 50-50 in a necessities bucket and then he can give whatever he wants.

Why are these posts acceptable in MMM thesedays?  These wealthy sacrosanct complainy pants.

formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2018, 10:28:26 AM »
I'm divorced.

Divorce sucks.

I'm happy now, far happier than I likely would have been if that marriage had lasted, but lord almighty divorce sucked.  7 years on, my children still ask why they don't get to see Daddy every day.

Divorce sucks.

That said, sometimes divorce is the right answer.  If you and your husband love each other and the only real issue is that he gives away a large portion of money, then I question whether divorce is truly the right solution for you.

The problems are not confined to your husband.  They aren't.  You have responsibility for this breakdown as well.  Part of righting this ship is to find out where YOU can take action in your marriage to change things for the better. 

You aren't going to get 100% of what you want in this marriage.  That's not what a successful marriage is.  It's figuring out how to get each of your emotional needs met (by each other!), without either of you delving into the actions that are "love busters" for the other. It's about having empathy for each other and being able to accept our differences.

I highly recommend that you read Willard Harley's His Needs/Her Needs and Love Busters.  (There's a website, too - Marriage Builders.)  Those are great resources to help you truly figure out what you are missing in your marriage - what is it that is setting you off.

Then, I recommend you get counseling on your own.  It really helped me to figure out a lot of things about my life and to learn to let go of some of my major control issues.   Beyond a healthy marriage, I think you need to figure out what the FIRE life looks like for you.  Does it include a maid?  Does it include a partner at home with you (and if so, why is that so critical)?  Why was your sabbatical so unhappy?  Cleaning sounds like a symptom, not the true cause.

Once your husband sees you making an effort to change, he will likely become more amenable to change as well.

My husband and I are each other's second marriage.  We are careful to keep our marriage a priority.  When we make choices, we have to think about whether those strengthen our marriage or weaken it.  We choose, every day, to try to strengthen it.  (We do still bicker.  We're human.)



What does


bluebelle

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2018, 10:44:30 AM »
I'm a little lost on how his family is wealthy and still needs money.

but my biggest question is:  did he change the 'rules' and start giving money to his parents or are you trying to change the estabilished pattern of giving his parents money?  and it must be alot of money to require you both to work another 10/20 years.  (you say while they're alive, why do you think only 10-20 years, given his age, I'm assuming his parents are in their 50/60s, so they could live another 40/50 years!).

Is this money some kind of payback for putting him through school?

Tass

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2018, 12:04:24 PM »
You have an effin' job that pays you more than like 80 percent of Americans and that offers you a sabbatical. And you complain about doing HOUSEHOLD CHORES?  Yeah, crazy thought - doing laundry and dishes when you are above that.

The complaint wasn't about doing household chores, but about the unequal distribution of household chores in her partnership. I think that frustration is totally legitimate. Housework is REAL WORK. If one partner doing the majority of the housework was agreed upon, that's fine, but it should never be assumed, even when one person is at work far more than the other.

Particularly in this case: if we assume they're sharing housework equally while they both work, and they have enough money to FIRE, she is free to choose to stop working while he is free to choose to keep working to fund his family - but his choice should not suddenly exempt him from his half of the housework, regardless of what she chooses.

I don't have anything to add re: divorce, except that I agree with everyone saying marital counseling is the only way this is going to work. Good luck.

Dianalou

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2018, 12:54:18 PM »
Just based on this post jumping to divorce seems really hasty, but I'm guessing there is lots not shared here.

Giving most of his paycheck away to already wealthy family seems crazy to me, but culturally that is the norm for some people. It sounds like you can afford it, but it just doesn't sit right with you.

Maybe you could sketch out what you want your FIRE to look like. What you do every day, how you spend your time. Possibly you could cut down to working part-time, get a housekeeper and still get time with your family? Do you BOTH have to FIRE? Maybe he could also cut down to part time so that you both have time at home with the kids, he still gets to work and support his family and you still get time together.

All in all I'm going to pile on with others and say that I don't see how getting a divorce is going to help with the housekeeping situation and spending time with kids. It's going to make it worse. Just hire someone to come in and do the stuff that you hate, and you get to spend more time with your kids. That said, it sounds like you both have some serious communication issues around this gifting of money and having an impartial third party counselor could really help. Sometimes just hearing it from someone who has no stake in your relationship can really put things in perspective.

wordnerd

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2018, 01:58:22 PM »
Other posters have covered most of what I would say, but I'm wondering if there are cultural expectations from his parents about how adult children support their parents. If that's the case and you do not come from the same culture, I think counseling would be doubly important to understand how you two can compromise as a couple and how he can set boundaries with his parents (if he wants to).

Schaefer Light

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2018, 02:04:54 PM »
I'm divorced.

Divorce sucks.
That's for damn sure.  I'm going through one right now, and it's by far the worst thing I've ever experienced.  On a "suckiness" scale from 0 to 10, divorce is a 9.9 and no other negative experience in my life would rate higher than a 1.

Please do everything you can to avoid divorce.  Like others have said, I don't think your issues are so big that they can't be fixed.  With good communication, I believe that almost any marital issue can be solved.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 02:08:15 PM by Schaefer Light »

Phoenix_Fire

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2018, 02:17:38 PM »
Your post from almost a year ago:

Hi Mustachians,

My husband and I (with two kids) are well on our path to FIRE (we are FI but planning to RE in two years) on a good amount of stash ($1.4M+). Both of us are in STEM occupations and are at our max earning capacity in our current roles. The next bump would come if we became managers or its equivalent in the technical side. Since we want to spend time with kids and travel, we decided 3 years back to concentrate on FIRE and finish in 5 years. We were new parents five years back and were not sure how we can make it all work. So having FI was very important to us incase one of us decided to scale back or quit. Fast forward three years and we have a handle on the parenting thing, so FI is good but we are not sure about RE.

Our workplaces are decent, nothing to complain too much about. However, I see some of my colleagues working hard to position themselves for the next step and the Type-A person in me wants to do the same. Also, looking at the opulence and money coming in at higher levels of our career paths, I'm wondering if I'm just giving them all away to while away time. To give an idea, my VP earns a million a year and owns a $20M house outright. I'm two levels below him and can ideally see myself there (if I put in the work) in 7-10 years. Similarly for my husband.

Pros of going to next level in career:
  • We are young (29 and 32) and have our entire lives before us so should we FIRE so soon?
  • My husband loves his job and the only reason he'd FIRE is because I want to travel and spend time as family. I don't mind my job but the FIRE mindset has me thinking that every day going to work is a drudgery. Its not that bad if I really think about it. We can WFH when we want and can take vacations without restrictions. The teams are good and work is interesting but not stressful.
  • I want my kids to have everything they need and not be restricted by money or status (when compared to cousins/friends) just because we chose to FIRE early. I don't want them to regret our FIREd state and wish we had worked a year or two longer so we had more money to support them.
  • More money on the table for working 4-5 years and can FIRE with a larger stash
  • More inheritance to kids/more donations to charity
  • if something happens and we lose a lot of money, getting it all back would be way harder since the jobs we have currently are easy and good. Not sure we'll get something similar without lot of luck

Pros of FIRE in two years:
  • not deal with office politics (I don't see it much at my level but I do see it at higher levels, not sure if I would like it)
  • get out of rat race? (ambivalent since we haven't been hit by the negatives too much - so not sure we really really want to do it)
  • spend more time with kids (I feel we do spend enough quality time with kids. Any more and even if the quantity would increase, the quality would not by much. Both of us need adult interactions and cannot be SAHPs)
  • travel (again not sure since kids are really young and traveling when they are 7-12 years of age would be better for them and us)
  • spend more time with parents and give our kids more grandparent time (they live in a different country and would love to have us with them - but they still work even after FI and wouldn't really want us hanging around without purpose - FWIW, my dad would try to get me working with him because at 60, he can't imagine not working, let alone accept I'm not working at 30. Similarly for my husband's parents)
  • can spend more time on our passions (this might be interesting to explore but is it worth giving up another million or two? can I not explore my passions/hobbies after 4-5 years?)

We don't plan to stay where we are once FIREd and plan to move to a LCOL area where we'd do well with the stash we have even if we never work a day again. I don't think we can come back to where we are currently if we leave our jobs due to the nature of our jobs - so its a one-shot thing.

We love the option to have FI money and to quit when SHTF but when things are going great, how do I give it all up and walk away? How did you do it/planning to do it?

What has changed in the last year?  A year ago both of your jobs were relatively low stress.  Now they are stressful?  It appears you took a years sabbatical since that post.  If that is the case, I am assuming you didn't make any clear cut plans on how to spend your time. 

You mentioned that your husband loved his job and the only reason he would FIRE is because you wanted to.  As others have stated, if you weren't happy during your sabbatical, why would he want to quit a job he loves to be at home and unhappy as well?

In your previous post there was no mention of him giving money to family, so I am assuming that is something new.  I can understand why that would bother you if it is to the extent you say it is. 

As others have stated, you both probably need to work on your communication.  It sounds like you have a deep desire to FIRE, and he does not.  I am guessing that your post last year was a lot of you projecting your desire to FIRE onto both of you, and he wasn't as on board as you made it appear.  Now, since you are one year out from your projected FIRE date, he is dragging his feet. 

I hope that you will engage with the people here.  You posted last year and never replied to any of the feedback.  The more info you give to folks here, the more feedback you can get that will be crafted to your situation. 

Again, examine what has changed in the last year.  Good luck, and hopefully we hear from you.

charis

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2018, 02:39:40 PM »
Not sure why people are even questioning the OP for not wanting to be the maid.  Yes, her husband is working, but he is giving away his paycheck.  So, no, it is not an equitable situation. 

I think you just need a compromise and change in action.  Consider asking him to contribute a certain percentage of his wages to the household (including enough to cover a bi-weekly cleaning service - yeah it's a waste but you can afford it and will be less bitter) and a certain percentage can go to his family.  Then separate finances for a while, as suggested above.  Have him deposit the non-household portion of his check into his own checking account and don't even think about it again.  See how that goes for a while.  Stop trying to convince him to FIRE or stop contributing to your in-laws. 

lhamo

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2018, 03:40:54 PM »
Agree that this sounds like a clash of cultures -- ironically my DH comes from a culture where children supporting their parents practically and financially is expected (he is back in home country helping with his bedridden mom right now), but I am the one who has to urge him to help out more financially where I think it might make a difference (mostly on hiring more help because his sisters are burned out from caretaking after more than 5 years of it).  We also paid for his parents apartment, give regular large cash gifts to his sisters and their families, etc.  I have lived in the culture for many years, though, so understand the importance of all of this.

I wonder if maybe your standards are too high when it comes to housekeeping, etc.   My kids are in their teens now, so it is definitely easier than when they were little kids, but I probably spend less than 2-3 hours/day on household duties, including shopping, cooking and cleaning.  I know, it is harder/more exhausting when you have kids under foot all the time.  But that could easily be fixed with some extra help or part-time preschool (which is not necessarily a bad thing -- many kids thrive with the social stimulation and are less antagonistic with their siblings when they are not with them 24/7.

If you really are having physical or mental health issues, you owe it to yourself and your kids to address those.  Step back a bit.  Hire some extra help if you need it.  Try to separate out the issues with your DH giving money to his family from the other things.  If working at your current job is exacerbating health issues, then take some time off to get those things worked out/through.  If there is the possibility of some kind of longer term disability, that is also something that should be planned for.  But in the absence of more details about what is going on with you healthwise, it does sound a bit like you are catastrophizing.

As others have pointed out, I don't think divorce is going to make things easier for you personally, at least not financially.  A 1.5 mill cash stash is not actually that much if you are in a HCOL where everything is expensive.  It would probably be hard to find a nice home for 1/2 the cost of your current residence, and the tax burden is still likely to be high.  If you want to stay in the same HCOL area, it is not going to be so easy to FI as a single mom on 750k.  The courts would most likely impute income to you even if you decided not to work, and if your salaries are currently similar that means you wouldn't get much, if anything, in child support.

Cressida

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2018, 05:15:05 PM »
I think it's worth reiterating that OP has stated that she doesn't like a thing her DH is doing, and her DH is continuing to do it with zero regard for OP's opinion. I'd be contemplating divorce too.

MayDay

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2018, 07:07:55 PM »
If my H gave away his whole paycheck, and was like"meh" when I told him I wnated to discuss it, I'd be so gone.

I know divorce sucks but (one side of the story and all that) I'd so be out of there if someone thought that was reasonable.

I totally get the chores thing. Just because he works (especially given he could quit any time) doesn't mean she wants to do all the grunt work. And hiring a maid is work too!

It boils down to: does he take your concerns seriously,or does he he ignore them and just do it his way? Regardless of what your complaint is, if he is unwilling to bend, well, you have a decision to make about whether you want to stay with someone like that.

Letj

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2018, 08:07:51 PM »
Hi MMM,

My husband and I are this close to FIRE but we've always had fights about money. Mainly because he thinks family comes first and wants to give money to his parents, siblings, etc since he earns more than them. Since we are high earners (our gross income is 400-500k per year), we have a sizeable stash (1.5 million and a paid off house in HCOL) at a relatively young age (32 and 30). We also have two young kids and I want to spend time with them and FIRE. His family is wealthy and don't need our help. But my husband insists on giving money to them every month out of a sense of commitment. As a result my in-laws have inflated their expenses a lot. My husband now wants to work another ten/twenty years (basically till in-laws are alive) to provide for them. I tried a year sabbatical and it ended up I was doing all the chores at home while he went to work and relaxed. I just ended up being a glorified maid. So I don't think me FIREing alone would help. He is a great person otherwise (even though we have some differences of opinion) and a good dad but working for ten/twenty more years to fund someone else's lifestyle is making me sick. Our work is high stress and I worry about our health and the toll the jobs take on our family. I don't want to die early and leave my kids alone. My husband says family will take care of them because that is what families do. Even if that's true, I want to see my kids grow up, see them get married and have kids. I'm wondering if it would be better if we separate (we'd still end up with enough for both to FIRE separately).

I can try staying home but putting kids in school/daycare but that defeats the purpose of wanting to be with kids and having fun with them. I have suggested marital counseling but he just walls up when I bring up any suggestion of reducing the amount we give (it started at $1000 per month and has now ballooned to most of his paycheck, once we hit our FI number, he wants to give all his paycheck or at least as much as he can to his family since we have enough to be FI) or go to marital counseling or discuss how to have a better life for all of us. At this point I'm just defeated and want out. But I don't know what all issues might come if one is divorced and am wondering if I should just accept it and let go since he is a great person/husband/dad otherwise. But my health is making me explore all options before accepting to work for another ten/twenty years.

I'd love to hear if there any other options we haven't thought about.

I am sorry but although, not in your shoes, I donít see any compelling reason to divorce. You have two small children and an otherwise decent and kind husband. Your issue does not appear insurmountable. You are young and sometimes youth limits our ability to see and think multidimentionally or even clearly see that some obstacles are not the end of the world. Have you sort out any sage advice from family or trusted confidants?  Can you compromise with your husband? Maybe he can still give his parents some help but not as much. Did you ask him why he insists on helping his parents? Could it be that his parents spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to help him get the high paying career he has? Is he from a culture where family would do anything for their parents? Would the money he gives his parents come back to him in the form of an inheritance? I agree giving your parents your whole paycheck is weird and is not something I think you should tolerate but surely, you can achieve some middle ground, no?

debbie does duncan

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2018, 05:06:28 AM »
WOW....you need some boundary setting rules. Before heading to divorce court try some of these links. Your husband should be putting his FOC...family of choice before his FOO...family of origin. He has been trained by his FOO to be obligated/enslaved to serve them. Good luck.
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/3davsm/tip_setting_boundaries/

blinx7

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2018, 05:36:31 AM »
And hiring a maid is work too!

Not to distract from the OP's real concerns, but this is literally the most complainypants statement I have ever heard in my life. 

You must have a really easy life if you think hiring a maid is hard work. 

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2018, 06:50:41 AM »
And hiring a maid is work too!

Not to distract from the OP's real concerns, but this is literally the most complainypants statement I have ever heard in my life. 

You must have a really easy life if you think hiring a maid is hard work.

+1

fuzzy math

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2018, 08:06:18 AM »
A few thoughts for a poster who seems to write lengthy summaries here, and then not give the courtesy to come update on people's thoughtful responses (as evidenced by the 2 post history):

-You seem unhappy, your husband seems perfectly happy. While couples therapy down the road might be indicated, it seems you first need to seek therapy on your own to understand why you are unhappy.

-Life with young kids is hard. they're messy, needy and often oblivious to the energy suck they inflict on you ("why are you taking so long getting me my food!!! WAAAAAAH!" ) You've both been at work full time (presumably utilizing daycare and a housekeeper to maintain things while you're gone) and life during your sabbatical wasn't all the flowers you were expecting. Your job field and your salary at such a young age have probably shielded you from the reality that 1) work is actually tough and can be physically exhausting (STEM ppl aren't the ones cleaning the office bathroom every night) and 2) without lower paid people to do things for you, *gasp* you have to do them on your own.

-Without further feedback from you, no one is really able to understand your husband's family commitments. If you're wanting validation for what is upsetting, understand that anyone's opinion is incomplete at this stage and you shouldn't just cherry pick the responses that resonate with you.

-Your husband was kind enough to float family finances for you to take a sabbatical. It seems unreasonable that you get to tell him what to do with his money if you are allowed to do whatever with yours (i.e., quit working). Going forward some sort of formal agreement should be made along the lines of: 
1) DH pays all household costs first
2) DH fully funds yearly retirement savings
3) remainder of money is split in some fashion (50/50, 70/30, whatever) between your household and his family.

LAGuy

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2018, 08:09:58 AM »
So, let me get this straight. You want to divorce a guy who you've admitted is a good guy and father, who just wants to go to his high paying job (that he loves per the one other post that you've made on MMM), and take care of his family? You want to take away his children, because of course I'm sure you feel entitled to full custody, and embarrass him in front of his family, his children, and society. What do I mean by that? Do you know what it's like for a guy to divorce? When you're a man and you tell people you're divorced, you can see the first thoughts that run through their mind. It's right there behind their eyes, "You beat her didn't you?" "You f#ked around on her didn't you?" "What did you do to her?" You think they're going to believe his answer, "Uhh, well she wanted to retire in her 30's and I wanted to work more." One day, your children will grow up. And they'll realize that dad is fundamentally a good guy...and they're going to blame you for the divorce and all the misery that they had to endure as a consequence. At the very least, unless this guy is beating you, f#king around on you, or is a drunk layabout, you need to stay with him at least until the children are adults. Other than that, see some of the other excellent posts here on how to deal with the things that are making you unhappy (I 2nd, 3rd and 4th the suggestions of hired help for high income couples to make married life far easier).

doneby35

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2018, 08:52:18 AM »
So, let me get this straight. You want to divorce a guy who you've admitted is a good guy and father, who just wants to go to his high paying job (that he loves per the one other post that you've made on MMM), and take care of his family? You want to take away his children, because of course I'm sure you feel entitled to full custody, and embarrass him in front of his family, his children, and society. What do I mean by that? Do you know what it's like for a guy to divorce? When you're a man and you tell people you're divorced, you can see the first thoughts that run through their mind. It's right there behind their eyes, "You beat her didn't you?" "You f#ked around on her didn't you?" "What did you do to her?" You think they're going to believe his answer, "Uhh, well she wanted to retire in her 30's and I wanted to work more." One day, your children will grow up. And they'll realize that dad is fundamentally a good guy...and they're going to blame you for the divorce and all the misery that they had to endure as a consequence. At the very least, unless this guy is beating you, f#king around on you, or is a drunk layabout, you need to stay with him at least until the children are adults. Other than that, see some of the other excellent posts here on how to deal with the things that are making you unhappy (I 2nd, 3rd and 4th the suggestions of hired help for high income couples to make married life far easier).

Exactly this! well said... such silly excuses for contemplating divorce these days.

firelight

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2018, 08:55:54 AM »
OP, I see you've gotten some facepunches here but as a mom of two small kids, I understand how hard it is to deal with them when husband is on a high stress career. And if I got a chance to walk away from work and still be fine, I'd take it. And anyone not agreeing to it would be facing my wrath. Hugs to you for it!

But, have you considered post partum depression? It can surface even after two years of a baby birth and you might want to get checked out for it. Also, if other than this one money issue, both you and your husband are fine, I'd let it go. I know it's super hard to do but assume you are bankrolling a private charity and let go. You guys are FIRE, it's not worth the hassle of being divorced to rectify a small issue.

As others said, try for marital counseling, communicate more and better and hire house cleaning/babysitting/any other service you want. From what you say, you seem to have enough room in your FIRE budget for it. Take life a bit easy when you are dealing with small kids and a huge transition to FIRE.

I understand you want your husband to FIRE too but you know what they say about leading the horse to water and all that. I do want my husband to FIRE with me but when the time comes, if he decides to continue working, then I'd let him do so. There are a number of people on this board who have done it and are working towards it. You might have to do more solo travel and have one home base but otherwise things should work out.

Good luck! I understand life gets in the way sometimes but we'd all love to help so please update when possible.

Kyle B

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2018, 10:39:13 AM »
Hi MMM,

My husband and I are this close to FIRE but we've always had fights about money. Mainly because he thinks family comes first and wants to give money to his parents, siblings, etc since he earns more than them. Since we are high earners (our gross income is 400-500k per year), we have a sizeable stash (1.5 million and a paid off house in HCOL) at a relatively young age (32 and 30).
I'm curious -- how much does he make a year, and how much do you make a year?

MayDay

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2018, 12:03:31 PM »
And hiring a maid is work too!

Not to distract from the OP's real concerns, but this is literally the most complainypants statement I have ever heard in my life. 

You must have a really easy life if you think hiring a maid is hard work.

+1

I get that on the face, it seems ridiculous.

If she currently does all the cleaning, and he says "hire a maid, I don't care", she is still doing everything. That everything is now finding and managing and paying an employee, but it is still work.

I am curious if the two of you are men or women? Many many women feel that what they really need is their husband to take mental responsibility for household and parenting tasks. To handling the remembering to schedule things, the getting things organized, the following up.

It is a very very very frequent complaint by women in hetero relationships, so I wouldn't brush it off.

If applying it to hiring a mid seems anti-MMM, then fill in whatever other household task doesn't make you twitch.

nara

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2018, 12:19:44 PM »
I'm hearing a lot of excuses from you.

In one sentence, you victimized yourself as doing all the chores during your sabbatical while he "went to work and relaxed." Then you proceed to tell us that BOTH of your jobs are high stress.  Explain to me exactly where he relaxed then?  Was work less stressful then?

Yes! I was confused about this too.. if his job stressful or relaxing? I think there's a lot of conflicting comments in this post. OP wants both her husband and herself to be retired so that they can both he can share in the household duties...however, she also wants to divorce him. Why would you want to retire so you can spend all your time with someone who you don't even want to be with?!

If she has a stressful high paying job what's so wrong with doing housework?! Housework is not stressful. And if it's really that horrible staying home and doing housework and husband wants to keep working.. get a maid.

Is this even a real post?

Cressida

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2018, 12:22:12 PM »
At the very least, unless this guy is beating you, f#king around on you, or is a drunk layabout, you need to stay with him at least until the children are adults.

That's an interesting proclamation. I would argue that if OP's marriage doesn't make her happy, she's not obligated to remain in it.

doneby35

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2018, 12:45:54 PM »
At the very least, unless this guy is beating you, f#king around on you, or is a drunk layabout, you need to stay with him at least until the children are adults.

That's an interesting proclamation. I would argue that if OP's marriage doesn't make her happy, she's not obligated to remain in it.

Yes, except she has no valid reasons to not be happy and is complaining about the husband wanting to work to take care of his parents and siblings, and complaining about household chores where the husband is working full time and she just wants to stay home due to FIRE.

maizeman

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2018, 01:56:24 PM »
My husband now wants to work another ten/twenty years (basically till in-laws are alive) to provide for them. I tried a year sabbatical and it ended up I was doing all the chores at home while he went to work and relaxed. I just ended up being a glorified maid. So I don't think me FIREing alone would help.

If you get a divorce, and then FIRE won't you still end up doing chores around a house?

The household chores will presumably have to be done whether or not the household is two adults + children or one adult + children. You can do them yourself. You can outsource them. You can decide that you're comfortable with a somewhat messier house, a somewhat less well maintained lawn, etc.

But all three options are going to be equally available to you if you FIRE while married to your working husband or get divorced and then FIRE.

Edit: Just noticed @remizidae made the same point right at the beginning of this discussion more eloquently than I did. Sorry about that.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 02:05:31 PM by maizeman »

Dicey

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2018, 02:28:40 PM »
Dicey draws in a deep breath...

I was going to post a reply to this post, but decided to do a little research. Firenow has posted two missives in a year's time. They have replied to input exactly zero times. They state they have enough to FIRE. I respectfully suggest that there are plenty of others seeking help in these forums. Assisting them might be better use of everyone's time. I think firenow will figure out her own stuff in her own time.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2018, 04:00:57 PM »
Why does your husband give money like this? Is it guilt based? Does he think supporting family is a financial thing only? Does he know something about their finances that you don't? Is it some long-held idea of success for him? I'd be working out exactly where this behaviour is coming from. It would certainly annoy me if my husband was putting another family above his own by handing out cash.

Cressida

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2018, 04:54:26 PM »
At the very least, unless this guy is beating you, f#king around on you, or is a drunk layabout, you need to stay with him at least until the children are adults.

That's an interesting proclamation. I would argue that if OP's marriage doesn't make her happy, she's not obligated to remain in it.

Yes, except she has no valid reasons to not be happy and is complaining about the husband wanting to work to take care of his parents and siblings, and complaining about household chores where the husband is working full time and she just wants to stay home due to FIRE.

I would not be comfortable making that judgment about another person.

Kyle B

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2018, 04:55:19 PM »
 It's his faultÖhe didn't say Simon says for better for worse, for richer for poorer...

Cranky

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2018, 05:25:51 PM »
Honestly, cleaning up your own house is not ďbeing the maidĒ, especially if your goal is to spend more time at home and with your kids. Iím curious as to what the OP envisions doing with her time...

cosine88

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2018, 05:29:58 PM »
Hi MMM,

My wife and I are getting very close to FIRE, but we keep having fights about money, and I don't understand why. We have done a great job providing for our children, and now that we have taken care of our home, I've decided I really want to show my appreciation to my parents. After all, they are the people responsible for birthing me, feeding me, raising me, clothing me, loving me, and overall ensuring I had the opportunity to live a good life on my own terms. For some reason my wife hates the idea of me helping them enjoy retirement, which seems insane. We have plenty of money(we make $400-500k a year between us), and she could retire now, I just want to help out family, and enjoy the satisfaction of actually demonstrating my appreciation for everything they've done for me. What is more important than family?

She brings up counseling, but that is obviously code for "I want you to change" and she has no intentions of even attempting to see my perspective. What should I do?

doneby35

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2018, 05:58:06 PM »
At the very least, unless this guy is beating you, f#king around on you, or is a drunk layabout, you need to stay with him at least until the children are adults.

That's an interesting proclamation. I would argue that if OP's marriage doesn't make her happy, she's not obligated to remain in it.

Yes, except she has no valid reasons to not be happy and is complaining about the husband wanting to work to take care of his parents and siblings, and complaining about household chores where the husband is working full time and she just wants to stay home due to FIRE.

I would not be comfortable making that judgment about another person.

We are all reading the OP's post, and from what she provided in the post, no valid reasons for contemplating divorce, you can keep defending her, but she's wrong based on what she's complaining about in her post, plain and simple.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2018, 06:31:00 PM »
Ok, play this out. You divorce. Youíre now a single mother, retired, raising the kids on your own, with some type of custody. Your funds will get split, so you wonít have 1.4 mil anymore. Are you going back to work or will he need to keep working to still take care of everything if youíre not working?

And now, youíre back on the dating scene, hurrah! Is your new partner FIRED as well? Or did you find an employee guy who hasnít even thought about FIRE and has to work 10-20 years to get his shit together. Or do you want an unemployed guy, no savings, who can enjoy your new RE lifestyle with you?

Or, you could let your husband live his best life, raise healthy kids, hire all the domestic help you want and travel as much as you want. And visit day spas. Endless day spas.

Kyle B

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2018, 06:57:53 PM »
Ok, play this out. You divorce. Youíre now a single mother, retired, raising the kids on your own, with some type of custody. Your funds will get split, so you wonít have 1.4 mil anymore. Are you going back to work or will he need to keep working to still take care of everything if youíre not working?

And now, youíre back on the dating scene, hurrah! Is your new partner FIRED as well? Or did you find an employee guy who hasnít even thought about FIRE and has to work 10-20 years to get his shit together. Or do you want an unemployed guy, no savings, who can enjoy your new RE lifestyle with you?

Or, you could let your husband live his best life, raise healthy kids, hire all the domestic help you want and travel as much as you want. And visit day spas. Endless day spas.
Fully paid off house in HCOL area is likely another couple million. Two STEM ppl making over a half million a year are likely in Silicon Valley, if so community property state. She gets the house, custody, alimony, child support and a big chunk of the 1.5 million in cash.

She's bored, not stupid. And if she's making $250k/year in STEM she can do arithmetic.

Not sure why she's asking strangers for permission to break her vows, but she certainly knows she'll do fine financially. She will definitely wind up with the surplus that hubby had earmarked for mom & dad.

Finally, she's only 30. If she wants another job she can find one. If she wants another guy, that too. (That is, if she hasn't found a new guy already -- her story goes from insane to completely logical if the new guy is already in the picture.)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 07:12:22 PM by Kyle B »

cosine88

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2018, 07:26:11 PM »
Ok, play this out. You divorce. Youíre now a single mother, retired, raising the kids on your own, with some type of custody. Your funds will get split, so you wonít have 1.4 mil anymore. Are you going back to work or will he need to keep working to still take care of everything if youíre not working?

And now, youíre back on the dating scene, hurrah! Is your new partner FIRED as well? Or did you find an employee guy who hasnít even thought about FIRE and has to work 10-20 years to get his shit together. Or do you want an unemployed guy, no savings, who can enjoy your new RE lifestyle with you?

Or, you could let your husband live his best life, raise healthy kids, hire all the domestic help you want and travel as much as you want. And visit day spas. Endless day spas.
Fully paid off house in HCOL area is likely another couple million. Two STEM ppl making over a half million a year are likely in Silicon Valley, if so community property state. She gets the house, custody, alimony, child support and a big chunk of the 1.5 million in cash.

She's bored, not stupid. And if she's making $250k/year in STEM she can do arithmetic.

Not sure why she's asking strangers for permission to break her vows, but she certainly knows she'll do fine financially. She will definitely wind up with the surplus that hubby had earmarked for mom & dad.

Finally, she's only 30. If she wants another job she can find one. If she wants another guy, that too. (That is, if she hasn't found a new guy already -- her story goes from insane to completely logical if the new guy is already in the picture.)

Based on the thread title, my bet is she pulls the trigger.

Letj

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2018, 07:37:37 PM »
Am I the only one that smell a troll?

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2018, 07:43:14 PM »
There are so many questions unanswered here but the obvious thing is that there is a lack of respect between spouses.  Beginning of the end.  Ask me how I know. 

And if you are a troll?  Simple answer:  Doooittt

Cressida

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2018, 07:44:27 PM »
At the very least, unless this guy is beating you, f#king around on you, or is a drunk layabout, you need to stay with him at least until the children are adults.

That's an interesting proclamation. I would argue that if OP's marriage doesn't make her happy, she's not obligated to remain in it.

Yes, except she has no valid reasons to not be happy and is complaining about the husband wanting to work to take care of his parents and siblings, and complaining about household chores where the husband is working full time and she just wants to stay home due to FIRE.

I would not be comfortable making that judgment about another person.

We are all reading the OP's post, and from what she provided in the post, no valid reasons for contemplating divorce, you can keep defending her, but she's wrong based on what she's complaining about in her post, plain and simple.

1:
I'm not "defending" her in the sense that I think she's in the right. I don't know if she is or not; I'm not in her marriage. Which is kind of my whole point.

2:
I think it's worth reiterating that OP has stated that she doesn't like a thing her DH is doing, and her DH is continuing to do it with zero regard for OP's opinion. I'd be contemplating divorce too.

Padonak

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2018, 07:49:12 PM »
Ok, play this out. You divorce. Youíre now a single mother, retired, raising the kids on your own, with some type of custody. Your funds will get split, so you wonít have 1.4 mil anymore. Are you going back to work or will he need to keep working to still take care of everything if youíre not working?

And now, youíre back on the dating scene, hurrah! Is your new partner FIRED as well? Or did you find an employee guy who hasnít even thought about FIRE and has to work 10-20 years to get his shit together. Or do you want an unemployed guy, no savings, who can enjoy your new RE lifestyle with you?

Or, you could let your husband live his best life, raise healthy kids, hire all the domestic help you want and travel as much as you want. And visit day spas. Endless day spas.
Fully paid off house in HCOL area is likely another couple million. Two STEM ppl making over a half million a year are likely in Silicon Valley, if so community property state. She gets the house, custody, alimony, child support and a big chunk of the 1.5 million in cash.

She's bored, not stupid. And if she's making $250k/year in STEM she can do arithmetic.

Not sure why she's asking strangers for permission to break her vows, but she certainly knows she'll do fine financially. She will definitely wind up with the surplus that hubby had earmarked for mom & dad.

Finally, she's only 30. If she wants another job she can find one. If she wants another guy, that too. (That is, if she hasn't found a new guy already -- her story goes from insane to completely logical if the new guy is already in the picture.)

If any young guys who are considering getting married are reading this thread, they should take notice. Especially those who make good money or are on the path to make good money. There is no benefit to a man to get married. You can have sex without marriage. You can live together. You can even have children without marriage (something like 50% or babies are born out of wedlock these days).
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 07:51:51 PM by Padonak »

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Contemplating divorce
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2018, 07:51:46 PM »
Ok, play this out. You divorce. Youíre now a single mother, retired, raising the kids on your own, with some type of custody. Your funds will get split, so you wonít have 1.4 mil anymore. Are you going back to work or will he need to keep working to still take care of everything if youíre not working?

And now, youíre back on the dating scene, hurrah! Is your new partner FIRED as well? Or did you find an employee guy who hasnít even thought about FIRE and has to work 10-20 years to get his shit together. Or do you want an unemployed guy, no savings, who can enjoy your new RE lifestyle with you?

Or, you could let your husband live his best life, raise healthy kids, hire all the domestic help you want and travel as much as you want. And visit day spas. Endless day spas.
Fully paid off house in HCOL area is likely another couple million. Two STEM ppl making over a half million a year are likely in Silicon Valley, if so community property state. She gets the house, custody, alimony, child support and a big chunk of the 1.5 million in cash.

She's bored, not stupid. And if she's making $250k/year in STEM she can do arithmetic.

Not sure why she's asking strangers for permission to break her vows, but she certainly knows she'll do fine financially. She will definitely wind up with the surplus that hubby had earmarked for mom & dad.

Finally, she's only 30. If she wants another job she can find one. If she wants another guy, that too. (That is, if she hasn't found a new guy already -- her story goes from insane to completely logical if the new guy is already in the picture.)

If any young guys who are considering getting married are reading this thread, they should take notice. Especially those who make good money or are on the path to make good money. There is no benefit to a man to get married. You can have sex without marriage. You can even have children without marriage (something like 50% or babies are born out of wedlock these days).

Um...... what benefits are there for women???