Author Topic: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars  (Read 11163 times)

chunkmunk001

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Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« on: October 28, 2014, 03:46:06 PM »
Just came across this online and wanted to share.  Thoughts?
(sorry don't know how to make it into a hyper link)

http://www.thv11.com/story/news/consumer-news/2014/10/28/consumer-reports-most-least-reliable-cars/18044011/

chunkmunk001

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 03:46:43 PM »
Guess I do lol.

hexdexorex

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 04:48:03 PM »
Glad GM is moving on up. Toyota gonna be hard to beat...still rockin a 23 year old one.

trailrated

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 04:59:59 PM »
I feel like I need to change my name now :(

chunkmunk001

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 05:03:28 PM »
I feel like I need to change my name now :(

lol Too funny!

chunkmunk001

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 05:05:23 PM »
I was surprised that:
- Scion XB was the most reliable vehicle
- Mazda was so high on the list
- Mitsubishi Outlander Sport was the most reliable SUV

I'm looking around for a used vehicle now so this may change what I look for or at least add some contenders.

MoneyCat

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 06:13:34 PM »
Consumer Reports tends to not like Ford because they don't like their infotainment systems.  They say they are too difficult to use.  I would guess that the testers from Consumer Reports also have microwaves at home blinking "12:00" over and over.

I've been driving a Ford hybrid for four years now and it has been absolutely wonderful.  No repairs necessary.  Nothing but routine maintenance.  And it gets very good gas mileage, especially if you hypermile.

Icecreamarsenal

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 07:21:22 PM »

Consumer Reports tends to not like Ford because they don't like their infotainment systems.  They say they are too difficult to use.  I would guess that the testers from Consumer Reports also have microwaves at home blinking "12:00" over and over.

I've been driving a Ford hybrid for four years now and it has been absolutely wonderful.  No repairs necessary.  Nothing but routine maintenance.  And it gets very good gas mileage, especially if you hypermile.

Anecdotes are the weakest form of 'evidence'.

MoneyCat

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2014, 10:44:07 AM »

Consumer Reports tends to not like Ford because they don't like their infotainment systems.  They say they are too difficult to use.  I would guess that the testers from Consumer Reports also have microwaves at home blinking "12:00" over and over.

I've been driving a Ford hybrid for four years now and it has been absolutely wonderful.  No repairs necessary.  Nothing but routine maintenance.  And it gets very good gas mileage, especially if you hypermile.

Anecdotes are the weakest form of 'evidence'.

I guess you missed the part about Consumer Reports' reason for not liking Ford being the infotainment system.  Some people are just better at using technology than others.

chunkmunk001

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2014, 10:49:36 AM »
Glad GM is moving on up. Toyota gonna be hard to beat...still rockin a 23 year old one.

Nice!  What kind of Toyota do you drive?

AgileTurtle

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2014, 11:04:10 AM »
Consumer Reports tends to not like Ford because they don't like their infotainment systems.  They say they are too difficult to use.  I would guess that the testers from Consumer Reports also have microwaves at home blinking "12:00" over and over.

I've been driving a Ford hybrid for four years now and it has been absolutely wonderful.  No repairs necessary.  Nothing but routine maintenance.  And it gets very good gas mileage, especially if you hypermile.

Ford's infotainment system is horrible. However I think their new cars are amazing.

Rickk

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2014, 11:10:52 AM »
Consumer Reports tends to not like Ford because they don't like their infotainment systems.  They say they are too difficult to use.  I would guess that the testers from Consumer Reports also have microwaves at home blinking "12:00" over and over.

I've been driving a Ford hybrid for four years now and it has been absolutely wonderful.  No repairs necessary.  Nothing but routine maintenance.  And it gets very good gas mileage, especially if you hypermile.

How is their dislike of the infotainment system related to the reliability ratings? 
I thought the Consumer reports reliability ratings were based upon number of repairs - do you have information indicating otherwise?

Rage

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2014, 11:14:22 AM »
I'm sure these reliability reports are great, but I've tended (by accident) to buy cars at the lowest end.  I think maybe they don't give proper weighting to scoring things that matter vs things that don't.

When I'm looking for a used vehicle, the process that I keep following looks like this:
Read up on reliability
Shop for one the most reliable vehicles
Discover that "least reliable" vehicles cost half as much
Buy the least reliable vehicle (usually a Ford or Dodge or similar)
Proceed to have no serious problems (Fuck the anecdotal police)

Is it a serious problem when the door lock button on the door stops working? (but remote keyless still works?)  Is it a serious problem when the side view mirror motor gives out?  Is it a serious problem when the antenna breaks off and one of the speakers starts cutting in and out?  Nope, no serious problems.  But all of those count against reliability.

Compare prices on a Ford Ranger vs a Toyota Tacoma.  Dodge Caravan vs Honda Odyssey.

gimp

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2014, 11:19:57 AM »
Not surprised about the scion. The cheapest scions run no matter what you do to them. Engine squealing, plastic bits dragging on the ground... it still works. No idea how.

Infotainment systems I totally understand. They tend to be terrible. ("Let's everyone design an OS, use different silicon, have shitty screens, and tie the system directly into the car controls. And make replacement units ridiculously expensive.") I would suggest that poor responsiveness when interacting with actual car controls is a reliability issue. Replacing them will be expensive as fuck (likely OEM-only, hope they don't discontinue it) and labor will be a bit of an issue too (mechanics are not electrical guys, usually.) Not to mention that they're not going to be upgradable to take advantage of new tech (eg, BLE). I would definitely choose an option like CarPlay any day over a built-in system. They offer some advantages but I hope to god that whatever car I buy years from now doesn't have one.

hexdexorex

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2014, 11:30:09 AM »
Glad GM is moving on up. Toyota gonna be hard to beat...still rockin a 23 year old one.

Nice!  What kind of Toyota do you drive?

Paseo...its a coupe Tercel.

nereo

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2014, 11:53:45 AM »
interesting link ChunkMunk001, thanks for sharing

Re the Ford infotainment system - it influences their "what to buy" recommendations but not their reliability scores.

Also - the big "catch" here is that this predicted reliability of new cars.  They use repair data from previous years and assume that the current model will have a similar repair history.  If the car has had a major redesign, they mark it much lower (since redesigns often - but not always - have more repairs).  Also, while they weight major mechanical problems higher, these ratings include minor repairs too, so seemingly trivial things like convienence-lights not coming on can push a particular model way down in the rankings, even though the things that matter to mustachians are very reliable.

It's all good info - but just understand the limitations of the data.  15 years ago I bought one of their 'most reliable' cars (a VW) and five years later the exact same car/model had gone gone from the best predicted reliability to a car with poor repair history.  So it goes...

Jon_Snow

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2014, 12:05:59 PM »
Helps to explain why I own, and will continue to own, 14 year old Toyota pickup.... best purchase of my life so far. Not a single problem with it - 200k and going to drive it to 500k and beyond!


Jack

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2014, 01:49:05 PM »
I'm sure these reliability reports are great, but I've tended (by accident) to buy cars at the lowest end.  I think maybe they don't give proper weighting to scoring things that matter vs things that don't.

When I'm looking for a used vehicle, the process that I keep following looks like this:
Read up on reliability
Shop for one the most reliable vehicles
Discover that "least reliable" vehicles cost half as much
Buy the least reliable vehicle (usually a Ford or Dodge or similar)
Proceed to have no serious problems (Fuck the anecdotal police)

Is it a serious problem when the door lock button on the door stops working? (but remote keyless still works?)  Is it a serious problem when the side view mirror motor gives out?  Is it a serious problem when the antenna breaks off and one of the speakers starts cutting in and out?  Nope, no serious problems.  But all of those count against reliability.

Compare prices on a Ford Ranger vs a Toyota Tacoma.

I resemble this remark: I own a Ford Ranger (18 years old and 210k miles) precisely because I really wanted a Tacoma but comparable ones were literally twice as expensive ($6k vs. $3k... 4 cylinder manual-transmission 4x4s are kind of rare).

I had to replace the clutch because it shattered into pieces, the synchros are worn, the fuel gauge is broken (I use the trip odometer and fill up every 250 miles), one of the rear brakes has a squeak my mechanic can't fix, the passenger door latch jams, the headliner is sagging, the dome light has no bulb in it because it'd be stuck on otherwise, the e-brake handle is missing, and the fan speed knob only works on the highest setting (or off)...

...but other than that it works great!

: D


Rage

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2014, 02:05:26 PM »
I'm sure these reliability reports are great, but I've tended (by accident) to buy cars at the lowest end.  I think maybe they don't give proper weighting to scoring things that matter vs things that don't.

When I'm looking for a used vehicle, the process that I keep following looks like this:
Read up on reliability
Shop for one the most reliable vehicles
Discover that "least reliable" vehicles cost half as much
Buy the least reliable vehicle (usually a Ford or Dodge or similar)
Proceed to have no serious problems (Fuck the anecdotal police)

Is it a serious problem when the door lock button on the door stops working? (but remote keyless still works?)  Is it a serious problem when the side view mirror motor gives out?  Is it a serious problem when the antenna breaks off and one of the speakers starts cutting in and out?  Nope, no serious problems.  But all of those count against reliability.

Compare prices on a Ford Ranger vs a Toyota Tacoma.

I resemble this remark: I own a Ford Ranger (18 years old and 210k miles) precisely because I really wanted a Tacoma but comparable ones were literally twice as expensive ($6k vs. $3k... 4 cylinder manual-transmission 4x4s are kind of rare).

I had to replace the clutch because it shattered into pieces, the synchros are worn, the fuel gauge is broken (I use the trip odometer and fill up every 250 miles), one of the rear brakes has a squeak my mechanic can't fix, the passenger door latch jams, the headliner is sagging, the dome light has no bulb in it because it'd be stuck on otherwise, the e-brake handle is missing, and the fan speed knob only works on the highest setting (or off)...

...but other than that it works great!

: D

My '99 Ford Ranger was the same way - it cost $8K vs $16K-$20K for equivalent Toyota Tacomas.  It had a few silly problems (e.g. drive gauge was off-by-one - R means you're in neutral, N means you're in drive, etc) and if you asked me to fill out a survey I would not call it high quality.  But it sure saved me a lot of money and ran just fine.

It seems to me that Fords from that era were especially bad.  I would argue that these days (i.e. anything after 2005-ish), the difference between best and worst is not as severe as it was in the 90's

Jack

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2014, 02:10:44 PM »
It had a few silly problems (e.g. drive gauge was off-by-one - R means you're in neutral, N means you're in drive, etc)

What would happen if you shifted into low range (or whatever the last setting is)? Maybe that would fix it...

Jon_Snow

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2014, 02:29:37 PM »
My Tacoma was worth the premium I paid for it, compared to Rangers, S-10's, and even Nissan Frontiers. You wouldn't believe the people that approach me asking if I would consider selling it. Nope.




Rage

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2014, 02:48:32 PM »
It had a few silly problems (e.g. drive gauge was off-by-one - R means you're in neutral, N means you're in drive, etc)
What would happen if you shifted into low range (or whatever the last setting is)? Maybe that would fix it...

Tried that, no dice.  It just went one past the end.  Very strange.  The whole thing happened from shifting into gear while parked on an incline.  It really didn't want to go, and somehow that caused this shift. 

My Tacoma was worth the premium I paid for it, compared to Rangers, S-10's, and even Nissan Frontiers. You wouldn't believe the people that approach me asking if I would consider selling it. Nope.

I wish that I was so wealthy that I could afford such a fancy vehicle :P

Jon_Snow

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2014, 02:53:14 PM »
Trust me, I was far from wealthy when I bought it. This was long before I knew what Mustachianism was... just lucky I bought one of the best trucks ever built.

Part of the reason I am somewhat wealthy now is that I haven't had to buy a new car every 5 years (my friends seem to do this) and maintenance cost have been almost non existant.

AgileTurtle

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2014, 05:51:16 AM »
My Tacoma was worth the premium I paid for it, compared to Rangers, S-10's, and even Nissan Frontiers. You wouldn't believe the people that approach me asking if I would consider selling it. Nope.

I really wonder if Tacoma are that great or Rangers and S10 were that bad. I have a hard time believing a Tacoma will last any longer than a F150 or Chevy 1500. Here in Michigan tons of people have full size american trucks and they last forever. It seems out west and PNW people prefer Toyota trucks and I am not sure if is is based mostly on myth or a few years where Tacoma were really that good.

Jack

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2014, 07:13:42 AM »
I really wonder if Tacoma are that great or Rangers and S10 were that bad. I have a hard time believing a Tacoma will last any longer than a F150 or Chevy 1500. Here in Michigan tons of people have full size american trucks and they last forever. It seems out west and PNW people prefer Toyota trucks and I am not sure if is is based mostly on myth or a few years where Tacoma were really that good.

I'm sure Top Gear's "indestructible Hilux" episode helped. (The Hilux used to be the same thing as the Tacoma; the newer Tacomas are different and worse.)

FarmerPete

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2014, 07:47:35 AM »
I find it hard to believe that you can use previous year/models to predict failure rate of this years models.  Yeah, maybe you can get a general idea, but good luck.  For me, if I am buying a 2015 car, I'm not concerned if it can last 3 years without issues.  I'm more concerned about what kind of repairs it's going to need in the next 15 years.  There is no way that CR can reliably tell me which model will be the most reliable over 15 years.  As others have said, one problem is not necessarily as big a problem as another.  If the car has heated seats and they break...guess what, you're going to have a cold butt.  I might check the fuses and do some basic work myself to fix it, but I sure will not be paying someone else to fix it.

Speaking of infotainment centers, I've got a 2010 Ford Fusion, and Sync works pretty darn well.  I push a button, ask it to do something, and it does it.  Yeah, you have to remember key words, but it's not really a big deal.  Having said that, I was getting a lift from the Ford Courtesy driver in a newer Ford Flex, and he was complaining because his personal Ford Flex with a big screen infotainment center thingy had locked up 3 times and he had to go to the dealer to get it reprogrammed.  I can't imagine that is going to be a free repair after the warranty runs out.  All of these car companies are ditching the single/double din stereo form factor, and they're installing their proprietary, irreplaceable stereo systems...That pisses me off something awful.  I don't want to have a $600-$3000 repair if the stereo breaks.  I want to go to Best Buy or Crutchfield/Amazon and buy a replacement for under $200.

For me, the most important thing in picking a car that will last is to get one that has the least bells and whistles possible.  I want things that add to my safety and useability, but not necessarily to convenience.  All of those extra things are just one more thing to break.  I want air bags, but does a car really need 20 airbags?  It's almost to the point that if your brand new car some how triggered all of the air bags in a small collision, the cost of just replacing the knee air bags, the side airbags, the front airbags, the seat belt air bags, and the whatever else airbags would cost more than the car is worth.  It's getting out of hand.

nereo

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2014, 09:40:49 AM »
Quote
I find it hard to believe that you can use previous year/models to predict failure rate of this years models.  Yeah, maybe you can get a general idea, but good luck.

I believe the logic here is that year-to-year, cars change very little except for major redesign years (which is why CR deducts points during redesign years).  It isn't perfect, but it's the best method anyone has.  It's a correlation - sometimes it's just not a great correlation.

Quote
I want air bags, but does a car really need 20 airbags?  It's almost to the point that if your brand new car some how triggered all of the air bags in a small collision, the cost of just replacing the knee air bags, the side airbags, the front airbags, the seat belt air bags, and the whatever else airbags would cost more than the car is worth.  It's getting out of hand.
I dunno here... I was the first responder and witness to an awful accident about two weeks ago, and I'm amazed that all passengers survived.  With today's unibody construction most accidents severe enough to trigger the air bags renders the car either severely damaged or  completely 'totaled'.  For me the cost of replacing my knee far outstrips the cost of replacing a knee-airbag.  In a major crash I want airbags just about everywhere.
NHTSA data backs it up ---> more airbags = fewer fatalities. 

Rage

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2014, 10:03:27 AM »
For me, if I am buying a 2015 car, I'm not concerned if it can last 3 years without issues.  I'm more concerned about what kind of repairs it's going to need in the next 15 years. 

In the market for a 2015 vehicle?!  You might enjoy this Mr Money Mustache article, Top 4 SUVs for Growing Families http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/01/the-top-4-suvs-for-growing-families/

chunkmunk001

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2014, 12:01:55 PM »
For me, if I am buying a 2015 car, I'm not concerned if it can last 3 years without issues.  I'm more concerned about what kind of repairs it's going to need in the next 15 years. 

In the market for a 2015 vehicle?!  You might enjoy this Mr Money Mustache article, Top 4 SUVs for Growing Families http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/01/the-top-4-suvs-for-growing-families/

As I was reading the article, I kept saying to myself "what!!!"".  April Fool's! Funny

gimp

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2014, 12:52:42 PM »
The most frugal 2015 vehicle is a Challenger Hellcat. Only $60k for 707 horsepower completely stock. It's so cheap, you're losing money for every day you don't buy one! :)

(In all seriousness, I'd love to pick up a 15-year-old one in 2030 as a hobby car.)

Rage

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2014, 12:57:08 PM »
(In all seriousness, I'd love to pick up a 15-year-old one in 2030 as a hobby car.)

I love that perspective.  I'll buy a 15-year old used Tesla around the same time.

BlueMR2

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2014, 10:24:19 AM »
Glad GM is moving on up. Toyota gonna be hard to beat...still rockin a 23 year old one.

Yeah, I'm still driving a 23 year old Toyota as well.  :-)  I don't know how their quality is on new ones though.  My wife has a much newer Toyota (only 12 years old) and the quality is definitely not as good as it is on my older one.

hexdexorex

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Re: Consumer reports: The most and least reliable cars
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2014, 08:04:52 PM »
Glad GM is moving on up. Toyota gonna be hard to beat...still rockin a 23 year old one.

Yeah, I'm still driving a 23 year old Toyota as well.  :-)  I don't know how their quality is on new ones though.  My wife has a much newer Toyota (only 12 years old) and the quality is definitely not as good as it is on my older one.

Yeah.....its really hard to say what brand now is going to be great 20 years from now...reliability wise. Personally if I was to buy a new car (wont ever probably) I would get a chevy volt. GM has upped its game recently and honestly I just think its a much better car than a Prius (and currently after tax breaks its cheaper than a prius in CA.)......or I would just get a Honda fit (if their new CVT ends up being reliable).

This is a channel I follow and he is a Toyota guy as well - he says overall cars are cheaper built now. With that being said he still prefers Toyotas. I have used his channel a couple times to fix simple things on my car

https://www.youtube.com/user/scottykilmer

« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 08:14:52 PM by hexdexorex »