Construction "beater" vehicle.

[Le Poisson]

We are happy, happy landlords to a few houses an hour and half away from our home. On the regular I make the drive to do repairs and keep tenants happy. Our beater vehicle to do that has been a 2003 Toyota Sienna minivan. It pulls 3500lbs - enough to take plaster and shingles to the dump or pick up materials at the lumber yard. It get decent fuel economy, and with the stow-n-go seats folded away can carry drywall or plywood out of the weather. We have been mightily pleased with it. it has been beat up extensively and risen to the lowly job of beater vehicle. We mostly use it for renos and family camping trips.

But alas, it has developed oil, transmission, and exhaust issues that challenge it's value in terms of repair costs. Currently we are considering replacing it with something as good. Our standards are low - must be safe and reliable, be able to carry a sheet of drywall out of the weather, have seating for 5, and tow 5,000 lbs. Good fuel economy also matters, but "good" is open to interpretation.

Late model used cars are not cheap though. So for under $5K most of what I'm seeing are older SUV's. Early 2000's Pathfinders and Explorers feature heavily. Not much in the way of Toyotas unless you consider 400,000 km low mileage (I don't). A few Honda Pilots - also with high miles.

Any Landlords out there care to share what they are using, how well it performs, and whether you'd recommend it to a friend?

[norajean]

Landlords, assuming they need to be general contractors for work on their property, favor pickup trucks over 5-passenger people haulers. But minivans are great for hauling anything and get great mileage. Get another one at stick with 3500 lb towing.  If you need more towing (you didn't mention why) you will need a crew cab pickup or SUV.

[Papa bear]

Getting to 5000lb towing puts you into real suv or truck territory. And coming from a minivan and it’s awesome cargo storage, I think you will very upset with an SUV’s lack of usability.

I vote for the minivan again, as that’s what I use for local rentals and the ones 100+ miles away. 

Or, what I’m hearing from others, the new Ford maverick might be a really good compromise for this sort of situation.  Though you’re buying a new vehicle for beater duty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Le Poisson]

Getting to 5000lb towing puts you into real suv or truck territory. And coming from a minivan and it’s awesome cargo storage, I think you will very upset with an SUV’s lack of usability.

I vote for the minivan again, as that’s what I use for local rentals and the ones 100+ miles away. 

Or, what I’m hearing from others, the new Ford maverick might be a really good compromise for this sort of situation.  Though you’re buying a new vehicle for beater duty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is more or less the whole dilemma in a nutshell. I miss the Astro Van days. Those were good times.

[KYFIRE]

Getting to 5000lb towing puts you into real suv or truck territory. And coming from a minivan and it’s awesome cargo storage, I think you will very upset with an SUV’s lack of usability.

I vote for the minivan again, as that’s what I use for local rentals and the ones 100+ miles away. 

Or, what I’m hearing from others, the new Ford maverick might be a really good compromise for this sort of situation.  Though you’re buying a new vehicle for beater duty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is more or less the whole dilemma in a nutshell. I miss the Astro Van days. Those were good times.

Astros are strong in sentimental value for sure (we had one way back in the 80s that became my high school car).

Unfortunately he said safe, don't go looking at the crash test for an Astro.

[Jon Bon]

Ford Maverick,

Fight me!

I am in the exact same boat. I have a beater minivan I use for landlording. Hell I am building a 1200 sqft addition with my minivan right now. It gets even worse, its does double duty as a family hauler so add in crushed goldfish and fruit juice all over the interior.  The coup de grâce the other day was that someone very obviously tested out the oil based espresso shade of floor stain. They just set the lid back on and put it back on the self. So when I put it in my car and went around a bend, well you get the idea.

So I am due for a new ride. And the Ford Maverick feels like a hell of a value proposition. Like landlords I need to be able to do nearly anything with my vehicle.  However, it generally does not need to be extreme. So haul a few 2x4s and a few sheets of drywall I need a vehicle that can handle it. If I need 200 sheets and 350 2x4s I just get that delivered. Like who truly wants to tow that load even if you have the capability?!

Its a versatile cheap truck, I did not think they were ever coming back but I am thinking it will be the landlording dream machine. Assuming of course your ego can handle it......

[rothwem]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents. 

[Le Poisson]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

See I'm very wary of sinking any capital into anything with an ICE engine since gov'ts all over the place are looking at banning ICE sales in about 10 yrs. Sure, the used market will still exist, but I do foresee a huge depreciation in ICE vehicles as the electric fleet takes over. I'm probably wrong though - I have been before.

[Jon Bon]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

See I'm very wary of sinking any capital into anything with an ICE engine since gov'ts all over the place are looking at banning ICE sales in about 10 yrs. Sure, the used market will still exist, but I do foresee a huge depreciation in ICE vehicles as the electric fleet takes over. I'm probably wrong though - I have been before.

Sure anything is possible, but this is a WORK vehicle right? The US government gives work vehicles like 10,000 exceptions for everything, so likely you would be just fine. Not to mention Ex Post Facto is a thing.

Did I mention that the maverick comes with a hybrid?

A work vehicle by definition is going to be larger and heavier then a standard car, therefore usually are terrible candidates for electrification.

+1000 to used car prices being stupid. I can go buy a beat to death, rusted out, ripped seats  truck with 150k miles for 10k.

[Papa bear]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

What my problem would be with this sort of truck, at least for my work, it struggles with hauling materials and tools at the same time, especially in inclement weather.  I wouldn’t be able to bring a couple 4x8 sheets, lumber, large item (like bathtub or toilet), hand tools bags and power tools all at the same time.  Minivan has no issues with that.  And if I skip the 4x8 sheets, I can still get a seat up with a car seat and bring one of the kids if I have to.  And when I unload, I can pull all the seats back up and still have a people hauler. 

That’s my concern with the Ford maverick.  While I have local rentals, the ones 100+ miles away don’t work well with an open bed. 

I do like the Tacoma’s as vehicles though.  They hold their value extremely well.  And minivans.  Well, they don’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[yachi]

Ford Maverick,

Fight me!

I am in the exact same boat. I have a beater minivan I use for landlording. Hell I am building a 1200 sqft addition with my minivan right now. It gets even worse, its does double duty as a family hauler so add in crushed goldfish and fruit juice all over the interior.  The coup de grâce the other day was that someone very obviously tested out the oil based espresso shade of floor stain. They just set the lid back on and put it back on the self. So when I put it in my car and went around a bend, well you get the idea.

So I am due for a new ride. And the Ford Maverick feels like a hell of a value proposition. Like landlords I need to be able to do nearly anything with my vehicle.  However, it generally does not need to be extreme. So haul a few 2x4s and a few sheets of drywall I need a vehicle that can handle it. If I need 200 sheets and 350 2x4s I just get that delivered. Like who truly wants to tow that load even if you have the capability?!

Its a versatile cheap truck, I did not think they were ever coming back but I am thinking it will be the landlording dream machine. Assuming of course your ego can handle it......

Challenge accepted.

Carrying Drywall:
The Maverick doesn't have 4 feet at the bed between the wheelwells, so to overcome that you have to raise your load 6" above the bed surface.  Then the bed is 4.5 feet long with the tailgate up, so you have to drop the tailgate and your 4x8 sheet of plywood still sticks out 2 feet past the edge of the tailgate.  I say plywood, not drywall because you're going to have to use at least 1 sheet of plywood to elevate your load to where it will fit.  A picture really helps

The exciting part to me is the hybrid drivetrain at 40 MPG in the City, that's awesome, but brings me to the next point
Towing:
That awesome hybrid drivetrain means your towing limit is 2000 lbs [sad face]. How much can your beater minivan tow?  3500 lbs?
You can get better towing if you lose the hybrid setup, and go for the turbocharged 4 cylinder engine and optional towing package.  What kind of towing capacity does that compromise get you?  Just 4,000 lbs.

Seating Capacity:
It seems everyone wants the crew cab styles of F150's and all other trucks to commute to an office, so I guess the option to limit the Maverick to crew cab with a small bed fits the market.  I'm excited for the Maverick to replace office trucks where ego requires a truck, but is the crew cab more useful to a landlord than a larger bed?  Rear hip room is over 10" less than the F150, so you can't assume that just because it's a truck you can fit 3 car seats easily back there.  It has 4 more inches than the rear seat of my minivan, but as those 4 inches are precious when trying to squeeze somebody in there, you might have to do car seat tetris to get them in there.

Given the above, I would vote your current minivan for 1st choice in landlording, and stripped-down 2 or 3 passenger pickup truck with full size bed for 2nd choice.

[rothwem]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

What my problem would be with this sort of truck, at least for my work, it struggles with hauling materials and tools at the same time, especially in inclement weather.  I wouldn’t be able to bring a couple 4x8 sheets, lumber, large item (like bathtub or toilet), hand tools bags and power tools all at the same time.  Minivan has no issues with that.  And if I skip the 4x8 sheets, I can still get a seat up with a car seat and bring one of the kids if I have to.  And when I unload, I can pull all the seats back up and still have a people hauler. 

That’s my concern with the Ford maverick.  While I have local rentals, the ones 100+ miles away don’t work well with an open bed. 

I do like the Tacoma’s as vehicles though.  They hold their value extremely well.  And minivans.  Well, they don’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've never met a contractor that didn't have a trailer for that kind of stuff.  In fact, all of the contractors I personally know have enclosed trailers, so they don't have to load and unload stuff from their trucks all the time. If you're regularly carrying sheet products, you should have a trailer, even if you own a minivan.   

Also FWIW, even though I recommended a Tacoma, I hate driving them.  I just begrudgingly think that they're the best tool for the job in this case.  And I really don't think that ICE vehicles will be banned in the next 10 years.  Battery tech and infrastructure still sucks and people will be using gas and probably even diesel trucks for a long time to come. 

[Le Poisson]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

What my problem would be with this sort of truck, at least for my work, it struggles with hauling materials and tools at the same time, especially in inclement weather.  I wouldn’t be able to bring a couple 4x8 sheets, lumber, large item (like bathtub or toilet), hand tools bags and power tools all at the same time.  Minivan has no issues with that.  And if I skip the 4x8 sheets, I can still get a seat up with a car seat and bring one of the kids if I have to.  And when I unload, I can pull all the seats back up and still have a people hauler. 

That’s my concern with the Ford maverick.  While I have local rentals, the ones 100+ miles away don’t work well with an open bed. 

I do like the Tacoma’s as vehicles though.  They hold their value extremely well.  And minivans.  Well, they don’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You affirm all of my biases here. Thanks.

That Maverick looks less useful to me than a Subaru Baja. If I wanted a pseudo mini-truck that was underpowered for towing, I'd get a car pretending to be a truck rather than a truck pretending to be a car. At least I don't have to lift the bags of concrete to waist height with the Baja.

https://carbuzz.com/features/the-subaru-baja-is-the-turbocharged-mini-truck-in-a-league-of-its-own

If I could find one cheap, I'd look at the Mercedes Metris, but the seats have to be removed/stored, and I'm not sure how well they tow (rated for 5,000 lbs with a 2.0 l 4cyl engine - but the big box of the van may take on a lot of windage leading to sway). Fuel economy is 21/24 MPG - not bad for a work truck. They seem like the closest thing to a Astro Van on the market right now. Going price on a used Metris is high though - $35,000 CAD - and resale seems weak.

https://www.mercedes-benz-vans.ca/en/metris/passenger-van/gas/2021/specifications

As for ICE engine ban in 10 years - see here regarding new vehicle sales. Used market will follow - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-canada-usa-idUSKBN28R31V
 

[yachi]

At least I don't have to lift the bags of concrete to waist height with the Baja.

I can't decide which design decision I hate the most:  The crazy truck bed height that requires you shoulder press your load into the truck, or the hood lines high enough to hide an entire Camry

In the case of a 2014 Silverado the high hood line doesn't give you a greater off road capability anyway because it's paired with a low air dam because, well the high bumper is bad for gas mileage...

2021 Dodge rams have front bumper sensors so you don't hit something in that blind spot.

[Le Poisson]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

What my problem would be with this sort of truck, at least for my work, it struggles with hauling materials and tools at the same time, especially in inclement weather.  I wouldn’t be able to bring a couple 4x8 sheets, lumber, large item (like bathtub or toilet), hand tools bags and power tools all at the same time.  Minivan has no issues with that.  And if I skip the 4x8 sheets, I can still get a seat up with a car seat and bring one of the kids if I have to.  And when I unload, I can pull all the seats back up and still have a people hauler. 

That’s my concern with the Ford maverick.  While I have local rentals, the ones 100+ miles away don’t work well with an open bed. 

I do like the Tacoma’s as vehicles though.  They hold their value extremely well.  And minivans.  Well, they don’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've never met a contractor that didn't have a trailer for that kind of stuff.  In fact, all of the contractors I personally know have enclosed trailers, so they don't have to load and unload stuff from their trucks all the time. If you're regularly carrying sheet products, you should have a trailer, even if you own a minivan.

Also FWIW, even though I recommended a Tacoma, I hate driving them.  I just begrudgingly think that they're the best tool for the job in this case.  And I really don't think that ICE vehicles will be banned in the next 10 years.  Battery tech and infrastructure still sucks and people will be using gas and probably even diesel trucks for a long time to come.

But I'm not a full time contractor. I'm a landlord who works in an office 5 days a week and maintains houses on weekends.

I'm not choking up my driveway or my garage with a full sized enclosed trailer when a 4X8 utility trailer will do. The full sized trailer would be a waste in my case - although as a mobile tool shop it is tempting. The issue is, that if I bought a trailer and equipped it with table saw, tool storage, etc. I'd end up hauling the materials in the vehicle... which brings us back to needing an enclosed bed for the 150 km trip to the rentals with drywall, cabinets, etc.

Also, my utility trailer serves as "junk storage" between dump runs and works great to transport gear on camping trips. It is the swiss army knife of stuff-transportation.

[Papa bear]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

What my problem would be with this sort of truck, at least for my work, it struggles with hauling materials and tools at the same time, especially in inclement weather.  I wouldn’t be able to bring a couple 4x8 sheets, lumber, large item (like bathtub or toilet), hand tools bags and power tools all at the same time.  Minivan has no issues with that.  And if I skip the 4x8 sheets, I can still get a seat up with a car seat and bring one of the kids if I have to.  And when I unload, I can pull all the seats back up and still have a people hauler. 

That’s my concern with the Ford maverick.  While I have local rentals, the ones 100+ miles away don’t work well with an open bed. 

I do like the Tacoma’s as vehicles though.  They hold their value extremely well.  And minivans.  Well, they don’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've never met a contractor that didn't have a trailer for that kind of stuff.  In fact, all of the contractors I personally know have enclosed trailers, so they don't have to load and unload stuff from their trucks all the time. If you're regularly carrying sheet products, you should have a trailer, even if you own a minivan.   

Also FWIW, even though I recommended a Tacoma, I hate driving them.  I just begrudgingly think that they're the best tool for the job in this case.  And I really don't think that ICE vehicles will be banned in the next 10 years.  Battery tech and infrastructure still sucks and people will be using gas and probably even diesel trucks for a long time to come.

See, now that’s the thing.  I’m not a full time contractor.  I use the minivan 60% hauling kids around town.  10% family vacation trips with no tools, and 30% need for tools/materials, and 90+ miles people, luggage, tools/materials. 

I can’t store an enclosed trailer anywhere, and I’d have to have a truck to pull one.  And a truck would suck for 700+ mile trips. 

I still vote for the minivan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jon Bon]

Ford Maverick,

Fight me!

I am in the exact same boat. I have a beater minivan I use for landlording. Hell I am building a 1200 sqft addition with my minivan right now. It gets even worse, its does double duty as a family hauler so add in crushed goldfish and fruit juice all over the interior.  The coup de grâce the other day was that someone very obviously tested out the oil based espresso shade of floor stain. They just set the lid back on and put it back on the self. So when I put it in my car and went around a bend, well you get the idea.

So I am due for a new ride. And the Ford Maverick feels like a hell of a value proposition. Like landlords I need to be able to do nearly anything with my vehicle.  However, it generally does not need to be extreme. So haul a few 2x4s and a few sheets of drywall I need a vehicle that can handle it. If I need 200 sheets and 350 2x4s I just get that delivered. Like who truly wants to tow that load even if you have the capability?!

Its a versatile cheap truck, I did not think they were ever coming back but I am thinking it will be the landlording dream machine. Assuming of course your ego can handle it......

Challenge accepted.

Carrying Drywall:
The Maverick doesn't have 4 feet at the bed between the wheelwells, so to overcome that you have to raise your load 6" above the bed surface.  Then the bed is 4.5 feet long with the tailgate up, so you have to drop the tailgate and your 4x8 sheet of plywood still sticks out 2 feet past the edge of the tailgate.  I say plywood, not drywall because you're going to have to use at least 1 sheet of plywood to elevate your load to where it will fit.  A picture really helps

The exciting part to me is the hybrid drivetrain at 40 MPG in the City, that's awesome, but brings me to the next point
Towing:
That awesome hybrid drivetrain means your towing limit is 2000 lbs [sad face]. How much can your beater minivan tow?  3500 lbs?
You can get better towing if you lose the hybrid setup, and go for the turbocharged 4 cylinder engine and optional towing package.  What kind of towing capacity does that compromise get you?  Just 4,000 lbs.

Seating Capacity:
It seems everyone wants the crew cab styles of F150's and all other trucks to commute to an office, so I guess the option to limit the Maverick to crew cab with a small bed fits the market.  I'm excited for the Maverick to replace office trucks where ego requires a truck, but is the crew cab more useful to a landlord than a larger bed?  Rear hip room is over 10" less than the F150, so you can't assume that just because it's a truck you can fit 3 car seats easily back there.  It has 4 more inches than the rear seat of my minivan, but as those 4 inches are precious when trying to squeeze somebody in there, you might have to do car seat tetris to get them in there.

Given the above, I would vote your current minivan for 1st choice in landlording, and stripped-down 2 or 3 passenger pickup truck with full size bed for 2nd choice.

You are of course right, and yes I am projecting because it is what I want.

Really I want(need?) a dedicated work vehicle. I can expense a fair amount of its operation for tax purposes. It will also mean I don't have break down car seats and fold my seats flat 2x a week. (this is getting really old!)

Re: Towing yes my van can tow 3500 pounds which I would only ever do a few miles in town. However, I have never done it, not a single time. I think I have only needed to a few times, and even then I have a found a different way. Friends with a truck, pay for delivery etc etc. So having a place for 15 80# bags of concrete would be nice. Because piling them inside your minivan is not great......

Yes it would be pretty solid with a small utility trailers, but I have no where to store it and those things have a tendency to walk off when you leave them somewhere.  I am at the point where I am semi-retired and a 25k truck is not going to break the bank.  I need a vehicle that is a jack of all trades master of none. Landlords never know what they are going to be getting into, so having a specialty vehicle wont really work. The Maverick CAN do sheet goods, 2x4s, and heavy dirty bags of much and concrete. But im never getting "contractor quantities" When I do that I pay the $80 for delivery which IMO is a screaming deal.

TL:DR

Minivan is the answer but I want to buy a small cheap truck.

[sonofsven]

Get another Toyota mini van with less miles?
Ironically, this subject is what brought me to the moustache world two years ago.
I'm a contractor/carpenter and have had a series of trucks and vans over the past thirty years and am well versed in the pros and cons, including using a work vehicle as a family hauler, too .
Anyways, I was pondering picking up a cheap mini van and setting it up like a cargo van so I did an internet search to see what others have done and found the MMM rant on work vehicles, which is exactly how I've long thought about my colleagues and their idiotic penchant for driving big, tall, inefficient "work trucks".
Sorry for the hijack!
Also, my current rig is a Nissan Frontier, cheaper than the Toyota, and better, too (at least it was in 2012 when I bought it).
I mainly have material delivered, if not I use an open utility trailer that has a heavy duty tarp cover for weather protection.
The smaller, older Ford Transit might be an option for you, too. A friend has one for hauling the family and picking up plywood (he's a cabinet maker).

[Le Poisson]

Get another Toyota mini van with less miles?
Ironically, this subject is what brought me to the moustache world two years ago.
I'm a contractor/carpenter and have had a series of trucks and vans over the past thirty years and am well versed in the pros and cons, including using a work vehicle as a family hauler, too .

Just heard back from our mechanic.

Replacing the exhaust and fixing the leaks will cost us $500 total. We will return to this debate in another 6 months when it's ball joints, battery, and oxygen sensors; but for $500, well, that's hella cheaper than a replacement vehicle. Here's to the next 50,000km.

Edit to add: @Papa bear - if you haven't done it already, and you tow regularly, look into bagging the rear shocks on your van. With a trailer or heavy load in the back it makes a world of difference for handling and eliminates rear-end sag. We regularly tow at the limit of the van's capability (plaster tearouts, roof replacements, pop-up trailer towing) and the bags have made a world of difference. The $100 kit was teh best vehicle improvement we've ever made.  https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Suspension/Air-Lift/AL60732.html

[rothwem]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

What my problem would be with this sort of truck, at least for my work, it struggles with hauling materials and tools at the same time, especially in inclement weather.  I wouldn’t be able to bring a couple 4x8 sheets, lumber, large item (like bathtub or toilet), hand tools bags and power tools all at the same time.  Minivan has no issues with that.  And if I skip the 4x8 sheets, I can still get a seat up with a car seat and bring one of the kids if I have to.  And when I unload, I can pull all the seats back up and still have a people hauler. 

That’s my concern with the Ford maverick.  While I have local rentals, the ones 100+ miles away don’t work well with an open bed. 

I do like the Tacoma’s as vehicles though.  They hold their value extremely well.  And minivans.  Well, they don’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've never met a contractor that didn't have a trailer for that kind of stuff.  In fact, all of the contractors I personally know have enclosed trailers, so they don't have to load and unload stuff from their trucks all the time. If you're regularly carrying sheet products, you should have a trailer, even if you own a minivan.

Also FWIW, even though I recommended a Tacoma, I hate driving them.  I just begrudgingly think that they're the best tool for the job in this case.  And I really don't think that ICE vehicles will be banned in the next 10 years.  Battery tech and infrastructure still sucks and people will be using gas and probably even diesel trucks for a long time to come.

But I'm not a full time contractor. I'm a landlord who works in an office 5 days a week and maintains houses on weekends.

I'm not choking up my driveway or my garage with a full sized enclosed trailer when a 4X8 utility trailer will do. The full sized trailer would be a waste in my case - although as a mobile tool shop it is tempting. The issue is, that if I bought a trailer and equipped it with table saw, tool storage, etc. I'd end up hauling the materials in the vehicle... which brings us back to needing an enclosed bed for the 150 km trip to the rentals with drywall, cabinets, etc.

Also, my utility trailer serves as "junk storage" between dump runs and works great to transport gear on camping trips. It is the swiss army knife of stuff-transportation.

Ah, didn't realize you weren't a full time contractor guy.  Minivan it is.  A Metris would be cool too, I think they're based on the current generation E-class, which is actually a super solid car.  Its a German car actually recommended by Consumer Reports, which is bonkers to me. 

I still stand by my new vs used recommendation though, and I'll believe an ICE ban when I see it.  It sure as hell won't be in 10 years.

[roomtempmayo]

Ford Maverick,

Fight me!

I am in the exact same boat. I have a beater minivan I use for landlording. Hell I am building a 1200 sqft addition with my minivan right now. It gets even worse, its does double duty as a family hauler so add in crushed goldfish and fruit juice all over the interior.  The coup de grâce the other day was that someone very obviously tested out the oil based espresso shade of floor stain. They just set the lid back on and put it back on the self. So when I put it in my car and went around a bend, well you get the idea.

So I am due for a new ride. And the Ford Maverick feels like a hell of a value proposition. Like landlords I need to be able to do nearly anything with my vehicle.  However, it generally does not need to be extreme. So haul a few 2x4s and a few sheets of drywall I need a vehicle that can handle it. If I need 200 sheets and 350 2x4s I just get that delivered. Like who truly wants to tow that load even if you have the capability?!

Its a versatile cheap truck, I did not think they were ever coming back but I am thinking it will be the landlording dream machine. Assuming of course your ego can handle it......

Challenge accepted.

Carrying Drywall:
The Maverick doesn't have 4 feet at the bed between the wheelwells, so to overcome that you have to raise your load 6" above the bed surface.  Then the bed is 4.5 feet long with the tailgate up, so you have to drop the tailgate and your 4x8 sheet of plywood still sticks out 2 feet past the edge of the tailgate.  I say plywood, not drywall because you're going to have to use at least 1 sheet of plywood to elevate your load to where it will fit.  A picture really helps

The exciting part to me is the hybrid drivetrain at 40 MPG in the City, that's awesome, but brings me to the next point
Towing:
That awesome hybrid drivetrain means your towing limit is 2000 lbs [sad face]. How much can your beater minivan tow?  3500 lbs?
You can get better towing if you lose the hybrid setup, and go for the turbocharged 4 cylinder engine and optional towing package.  What kind of towing capacity does that compromise get you?  Just 4,000 lbs.

Seating Capacity:
It seems everyone wants the crew cab styles of F150's and all other trucks to commute to an office, so I guess the option to limit the Maverick to crew cab with a small bed fits the market.  I'm excited for the Maverick to replace office trucks where ego requires a truck, but is the crew cab more useful to a landlord than a larger bed?  Rear hip room is over 10" less than the F150, so you can't assume that just because it's a truck you can fit 3 car seats easily back there.  It has 4 more inches than the rear seat of my minivan, but as those 4 inches are precious when trying to squeeze somebody in there, you might have to do car seat tetris to get them in there.

Given the above, I would vote your current minivan for 1st choice in landlording, and stripped-down 2 or 3 passenger pickup truck with full size bed for 2nd choice.

I'm super tempted by the hybrid Maverick, but I think they need to offer a regular cab with at least a 6' bed.

There's probably a huge market for them as fleet vehicles, but they need more hauling volume than a 4' bed provides.

[RyanGreener]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm on a "new" vehicle kick lately.  Used car prices are bananas, and used cars that are useful for work are even more bananas.  Why is that? Because new cars cost a ton of money and most people don't have the capital to buy a new car, so everyone is looking at cheaper stuff. 

However, since you're on this site, you've probably got more capital than the average Joe, and you can use this to your advantage.  Buy a 2021 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4-cylinder truck with the unpainted bumpers and vinyl floor.  Yeah, it'll be $26,000, which is insane, but you'll get 22,000 for it in 10 years and you will really only need gas, tires, and oil changes during that time.  Sure, you'll have more capital tied up into it than a 15 year old minivan, but with less maintenance, you'll have more "up-time" and your total cost of ownership will probably not be dramatically different. 

Just my 2 cents.

What my problem would be with this sort of truck, at least for my work, it struggles with hauling materials and tools at the same time, especially in inclement weather.  I wouldn’t be able to bring a couple 4x8 sheets, lumber, large item (like bathtub or toilet), hand tools bags and power tools all at the same time.  Minivan has no issues with that.  And if I skip the 4x8 sheets, I can still get a seat up with a car seat and bring one of the kids if I have to.  And when I unload, I can pull all the seats back up and still have a people hauler. 

That’s my concern with the Ford maverick.  While I have local rentals, the ones 100+ miles away don’t work well with an open bed. 

I do like the Tacoma’s as vehicles though.  They hold their value extremely well.  And minivans.  Well, they don’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've never met a contractor that didn't have a trailer for that kind of stuff.  In fact, all of the contractors I personally know have enclosed trailers, so they don't have to load and unload stuff from their trucks all the time. If you're regularly carrying sheet products, you should have a trailer, even if you own a minivan.

Also FWIW, even though I recommended a Tacoma, I hate driving them.  I just begrudgingly think that they're the best tool for the job in this case.  And I really don't think that ICE vehicles will be banned in the next 10 years.  Battery tech and infrastructure still sucks and people will be using gas and probably even diesel trucks for a long time to come.

But I'm not a full time contractor. I'm a landlord who works in an office 5 days a week and maintains houses on weekends.

I'm not choking up my driveway or my garage with a full sized enclosed trailer when a 4X8 utility trailer will do. The full sized trailer would be a waste in my case - although as a mobile tool shop it is tempting. The issue is, that if I bought a trailer and equipped it with table saw, tool storage, etc. I'd end up hauling the materials in the vehicle... which brings us back to needing an enclosed bed for the 150 km trip to the rentals with drywall, cabinets, etc.

Also, my utility trailer serves as "junk storage" between dump runs and works great to transport gear on camping trips. It is the swiss army knife of stuff-transportation.

Ah, didn't realize you weren't a full time contractor guy.  Minivan it is.  A Metris would be cool too, I think they're based on the current generation E-class, which is actually a super solid car.  Its a German car actually recommended by Consumer Reports, which is bonkers to me. 

I still stand by my new vs used recommendation though, and I'll believe an ICE ban when I see it.  It sure as hell won't be in 10 years.

Just want to put in my two cents here. Even if the world is going to switch to something not fossil fuel related and there is a ban on ICE vehicles in 2030, I'm still fossil fuels will still be around anyway as it means the last SALE of an ICE car was 2030, and assuming those cars with minimal car would be around for 10 years, I don't think people would be forced to get rid of their brand new vehicle. I think people should be making decisions based on their needs of now anyway, but that's entirely up to you.

[Le Poisson]

Picked up the van. so quiet. So smooth. Felt so much better with a working exhaust!

The SEL came on a block from the mechanic's. Who wants to bet it's an O2 sensor or catalytic and they'll have to take whole exhaust apart to fix it?

I know, I have an OBDII scanner. I can check if it's a DIY fix, it's just painful.

[sonofsven]

I'll bet: MAF sensor

[Jon Bon]

Ford Maverick,

Fight me!

I am in the exact same boat. I have a beater minivan I use for landlording. Hell I am building a 1200 sqft addition with my minivan right now. It gets even worse, its does double duty as a family hauler so add in crushed goldfish and fruit juice all over the interior.  The coup de grâce the other day was that someone very obviously tested out the oil based espresso shade of floor stain. They just set the lid back on and put it back on the self. So when I put it in my car and went around a bend, well you get the idea.

So I am due for a new ride. And the Ford Maverick feels like a hell of a value proposition. Like landlords I need to be able to do nearly anything with my vehicle.  However, it generally does not need to be extreme. So haul a few 2x4s and a few sheets of drywall I need a vehicle that can handle it. If I need 200 sheets and 350 2x4s I just get that delivered. Like who truly wants to tow that load even if you have the capability?!

Its a versatile cheap truck, I did not think they were ever coming back but I am thinking it will be the landlording dream machine. Assuming of course your ego can handle it......

Challenge accepted.

Carrying Drywall:
The Maverick doesn't have 4 feet at the bed between the wheelwells, so to overcome that you have to raise your load 6" above the bed surface.  Then the bed is 4.5 feet long with the tailgate up, so you have to drop the tailgate and your 4x8 sheet of plywood still sticks out 2 feet past the edge of the tailgate.  I say plywood, not drywall because you're going to have to use at least 1 sheet of plywood to elevate your load to where it will fit.  A picture really helps

The exciting part to me is the hybrid drivetrain at 40 MPG in the City, that's awesome, but brings me to the next point
Towing:
That awesome hybrid drivetrain means your towing limit is 2000 lbs [sad face]. How much can your beater minivan tow?  3500 lbs?
You can get better towing if you lose the hybrid setup, and go for the turbocharged 4 cylinder engine and optional towing package.  What kind of towing capacity does that compromise get you?  Just 4,000 lbs.

Seating Capacity:
It seems everyone wants the crew cab styles of F150's and all other trucks to commute to an office, so I guess the option to limit the Maverick to crew cab with a small bed fits the market.  I'm excited for the Maverick to replace office trucks where ego requires a truck, but is the crew cab more useful to a landlord than a larger bed?  Rear hip room is over 10" less than the F150, so you can't assume that just because it's a truck you can fit 3 car seats easily back there.  It has 4 more inches than the rear seat of my minivan, but as those 4 inches are precious when trying to squeeze somebody in there, you might have to do car seat tetris to get them in there.

Given the above, I would vote your current minivan for 1st choice in landlording, and stripped-down 2 or 3 passenger pickup truck with full size bed for 2nd choice.

I'm super tempted by the hybrid Maverick, but I think they need to offer a regular cab with at least a 6' bed.

There's probably a huge market for them as fleet vehicles, but they need more hauling volume than a 4' bed provides.

I guess i hear everyone freak out about the "small" bed. But there are like 5 million crew cab short bed trucks on the road and they seam to do ok? Nor do I see any single cab long bed trucks I know they still make them, but the demand for them is near zero.

It can do all the truck stuff, it can tow, it can haul drywall and it can carry around 5 people. I don't need to be able to tow my 80 foot travel trailer through the Rockies in winter. 

[roomtempmayo]

I guess i hear everyone freak out about the "small" bed. But there are like 5 million crew cab short bed trucks on the road and they seam to do ok? Nor do I see any single cab long bed trucks I know they still make them, but the demand for them is near zero.

It can do all the truck stuff, it can tow, it can haul drywall and it can carry around 5 people. I don't need to be able to tow my 80 foot travel trailer through the Rockies in winter.

I think there's definitely a market for this thing as-is, and I think that market's big.  This is the truck that a large percentage of F150 drivers actually need, if they need a truck at all.  Whether they'll buy it is perhaps a different question, but at least now we'll have an answer to whether people really want cheap pickups.

I could see myself buying one of the FWD/hybrid versions all shiny and new off the lot when they come out.  While used vans and cars are often great deals, I think the used pickup market is much less of a deal.

A regular cab, longer bed version would fill the fleet vehicle niche that the old Ranger used to fill, where the bed does actually get used.  I'm thinking of all the Napa trucks  carrying a bed full of light parts around town, and all the other courier-type businesses haul light cargo.

In any configuration, I like the concept of the Maverick, and I like that Ford is building a vehicle that meets needs for people rather than ... well ... just look at the Raptor.

[ketchup]

As someone who just bought a 2005 Sienna (135k miles, and as "like-new" as a car that age can possibly be) a few weeks ago, buy another Sienna when that one craps out.

[BDWW]

I don't understand the American obsession with big hoods. Even the new electric F150 has a massive hood, that they decide to use as a trunk. Why not reclaim all that space and push the cab forward, and shorten the wheelbase while maintaining the same utility? My guess, is that it has to "look" like an American truck. I was hoping with relatively small sizes of the ecoboost engines, they'd move to a more cab forward design to shrink the footprint a bit. Seeing as how they won't even do that with an electric vehicle, there doesn't seem to be much hope.

[APowers]

I don't understand the American obsession with big hoods. Even the new electric F150 has a massive hood, that they decide to use as a trunk. Why not reclaim all that space and push the cab forward, and shorten the wheelbase while maintaining the same utility? My guess, is that it has to "look" like an American truck. I was hoping with relatively small sizes of the ecoboost engines, they'd move to a more cab forward design to shrink the footprint a bit. Seeing as how they won't even do that with an electric vehicle, there doesn't seem to be much hope.

This. A light-duty Mitsubishi Fuso crewcab could package a full-size bed and a crewcab in the footprint of a shortbed extra-cab. And have better visibility and maneuverability. Sadly, the Fuso is a medium-duty (equivalent of an F550, etc) and generally only kitted out for commercial use (duallies, flatbed, box truck, etc). If Mitsubishi decided to make one for the US in the mid-size range, to compete with the current Ranger/Colorado/Tacoma, I would be *very* interested. They *do* make them, just... not for the US.

[ketchup]

I don't understand the American obsession with big hoods. Even the new electric F150 has a massive hood, that they decide to use as a trunk. Why not reclaim all that space and push the cab forward, and shorten the wheelbase while maintaining the same utility? My guess, is that it has to "look" like an American truck. I was hoping with relatively small sizes of the ecoboost engines, they'd move to a more cab forward design to shrink the footprint a bit. Seeing as how they won't even do that with an electric vehicle, there doesn't seem to be much hope.

Are vehicles like that more difficult to service?  Even in the Sienna we just bought, where things aren't pushed too far back under, apparently changing the rear spark plugs on the engine involves some insane maneuvers (removing the intake manifold and a few other things, all day job for a DIYer, something insane like $900 at a shop).  That's a half hour job on our other cars.

[Le Poisson]

I don't understand the American obsession with big hoods. Even the new electric F150 has a massive hood, that they decide to use as a trunk. Why not reclaim all that space and push the cab forward, and shorten the wheelbase while maintaining the same utility? My guess, is that it has to "look" like an American truck. I was hoping with relatively small sizes of the ecoboost engines, they'd move to a more cab forward design to shrink the footprint a bit. Seeing as how they won't even do that with an electric vehicle, there doesn't seem to be much hope.

Remember the VW Transporter? Basically a VW bus with a construction bed on it? That reminds me of an oversized one of those.



I think I need to either move to Asia, Europe, or 1988 for all the practical vehicles.

[Jon Bon]

I don't understand the American obsession with big hoods. Even the new electric F150 has a massive hood, that they decide to use as a trunk. Why not reclaim all that space and push the cab forward, and shorten the wheelbase while maintaining the same utility? My guess, is that it has to "look" like an American truck. I was hoping with relatively small sizes of the ecoboost engines, they'd move to a more cab forward design to shrink the footprint a bit. Seeing as how they won't even do that with an electric vehicle, there doesn't seem to be much hope.

Crumple zones?

Even EV's have big hoods for that reason despite not having an gas engine.

I mean all we want is a vehicle that seats seven, with an 8 foot bed, that can keep materials dry and secure, but also separate from the rest of the vehicle with an option to have it be open for taller items. It just needs to be under 20 feet long and cost less than 30k.

I would name it the impossimobile

[zolotiyeruki]

I'm late to this party, but I'll put my vote in for a Honda Odyssey or Sienna.  We finished our basement a couple years ago, and other than the drywall, all the materials came via the minivan.  A couple years before that, we built a new deck, and hauled everything in the van.

I wouldn't buy it *now*, since car prices are crazy, but it sounds like you've bought yourself enough time to (hopefully!) last until used car prices fall back to normal.

[Paper Chaser]

I don't understand the American obsession with big hoods. Even the new electric F150 has a massive hood, that they decide to use as a trunk. Why not reclaim all that space and push the cab forward, and shorten the wheelbase while maintaining the same utility? My guess, is that it has to "look" like an American truck. I was hoping with relatively small sizes of the ecoboost engines, they'd move to a more cab forward design to shrink the footprint a bit. Seeing as how they won't even do that with an electric vehicle, there doesn't seem to be much hope.

Scale is a massive advantage for vehicles like the F150. Making nearly a million of them per year with the same basic shape means they can keep prices low and profits higher. For the same reason, all F150s have to be designed to accommodate the largest engine option/highest tow rating, etc. Doing an EV F150 with a totally different body than the ICE F150s would increase the cost of the EV substantially. Probably enough that it wouldn't make financial sense for them to do it right now. They need to share body panels, and dash boards, and steering columns, and window glass, and frame rails, etc to make business sense.

Ecoboost engines have smaller displacement than the V8s they're intended to replace, but that doesn't mean that their physical dimensions are much different: