The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: alewpanda on July 14, 2017, 07:16:09 PM
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DH and I currently live in central MO. We are originally from WI. We are considering a rather drastic move from our tiny rural MO town to Minneapolis MN. Current reasons: Have read that its relatively inexpensive for a big city, it would have lots of career opportunities for DH, it appears from online research to be extremely bike/walking friendly, and it would bring us within 5 hours of our family...which is close compared to currently, but not too close ;)
Goals:
Complete change of culture. Want the big city feel. Love the synergy of lots of people/ideas in close quarters.
Change of climate -- we miss WI winters!
Closer to family...but not too close.
Change/Furthering of careers. DH will have tons of options as a Network Engineer with interests in Information Security. I myself am considering a shift in career paths, or at least a break...could also greatly use a change of scenery and culture.
Lessen our Car-centric lifestyles: we don't want to have to use a vehicle on a regular basis. We would like easy biking access, public transportation, and be within walking distance of our commonly frequented areas. We are willing to sacrifice living space for this lifestyle.
How you can help:
We plan on making a visit, hopefully this fall. What neighborhoods should we check out? Access to cheap(ish) housing, apartment or condo style preferred. Open to small spaces/studios with proper layout. DH is in IT, but also tinkers with woodworking and electrical stuff, so any recommendations for a maker space or community? I love the art community and being involved in local projects/markets. I would love easy access to local shops/galleries. Grocery, thrift stores, and a dog friendly space like a park or public space nearby would be some big benefits also. Some sort of body of water within walking distance would do my landlocked heart some good...but its certainly not required...lol
Minneapolis is a big city...and our trip will likely only be able to stretch 4-5 days counting travel days. Help us narrow down our search so we can figure out if this is a good option for a total life change!
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I don't know anything about the areas. We travelled to Minneapolis a year ago and stayed by the Convention Center/downtown. From what we could tell, it was very bike friendly, and the downtown area was super walkable. We walked on the Loring Greenway---very nice and what looked like some nice condos/apartments in the area. The thing that I was somewhat taken aback with was rush hour on the highways---absolutely super-congested traffic that just inched along for 1-2 hours.
Since you mentioned that you like winter, then I imagine you will love the brutal cold of Minneapolis. :)
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I used to live in Mpls, missed it and just moved back.
I'm not so great at specific locations of most of your questions.
I'm in NE and love it.
For groceries, Mpls is hugest coops per capita in the US. They are all excellent. Just google Mpls food coops and they'll come up. They are more like whole foods prices so we tend to stock up at Costco then do a smaller weekly coop shop.
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Here are the neighborhood keywords you want to search for:
If you can handle being by brown people, these neighborhoods are good:
powderhorn
stevens square (cheap apartments)
central
midtown
A little farther from the concentration of brown people but you'll still see them:
kingfield
southeast minneapolis
nokomis
hiawatha
Bleeding heart liberal hippy glbt neighborhoods:
seward
east lake street
longfellow
Cool downtown areas:
loring park (restaurant workers/single 9-5ers)
st anthony
north loop (ritzy $1800/mo 1 bedrooms)
If you need to be surrounded by white people(pricey):
lake of the isles
kenwood
calhoun
Good mix of people but by a lot of partying kids in their 20s:
uptown
whittier -> this is a great place and farther from the bro bars. You'd probably like it in this neighborhood.
Basically the farther west you go in minneapolis the richer and whiter it is, the farther east you go it turns into hippies/working class, if you go north it's where the city quarantined black people by cutting them off with a highway.
PM me if you want any specific information, I've lived here for a long time. Also, I know my post is a lot about race - but that's how it is here. People here are either small town/suburban people who are racist, or small town/suburban people who move here looking for a more tolerant and diverse way of life.
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Here are the neighborhood keywords you want to search for:
If you can handle being by brown people, these neighborhoods are good:
powderhorn
stevens square (cheap apartments)
central
midtown
A little farther from the concentration of brown people but you'll still see them:
kingfield
southeast minneapolis
nokomis
hiawatha
Bleeding heart liberal hippy glbt neighborhoods:
seward
east lake street
longfellow
Cool downtown areas:
loring park (restaurant workers/single 9-5ers)
st anthony
north loop (ritzy $1800/mo 1 bedrooms)
If you need to be surrounded by white people(pricey):
lake of the isles
kenwood
calhoun
Good mix of people but by a lot of partying kids in their 20s:
uptown
whittier -> this is a great place and farther from the bro bars. You'd probably like it in this neighborhood.
Basically the farther west you go in minneapolis the richer and whiter it is, the farther east you go it turns into hippies/working class, if you go north it's where the city quarantined black people by cutting them off with a highway.
PM me if you want any specific information, I've lived here for a long time. Also, I know my post is a lot about race - but that's how it is here. People here are either small town/suburban people who are racist, or small town/suburban people who move here looking for a more tolerant and diverse way of life.
This is a great list...I will familiarize myself with where these are located and cross-check them with some of the places my DH is interested in applying to.
I like diversity ;) I don't do ritzy...or all white. Some of our frustration with our current location is simply the lack of diversity. Not ethnicity really...just lack of different ideas/interests/viewpoints.
We are a bit past the bar-hopping 20s age (late 20s, early 30s), but we like a good meal, good drink, good art, and good music...particularly if we can support those who are local while we are at it. I will do some searching regarding your list and let you know if I have questions about specifics. Thank you!
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Are you buying or renting? The Twin Cities real estate market is a little ridiculous right now, houses not really making it past a day with multiple offers over asking.
That said, we live in the Hiawatha/Longfellow neighborhood mentioned above. Blocks from one of the best parks in the city, the Mississippi river (and trail), light rail, bus line, and a mile across the bridge from tons of retail/restaurants/groceries.
We recently moved here from Denver and absolutely love the place. I can't say enough good things. We've got two young kids and spend most of our waking moments outside (yes, even in the blistering cold) engaging in the bustle of the city and the awesome outdoors scene (biking, hiking, climbing, camping, swimming, boating, skating, skiing, fat biking).
Twin cities make the top ten lists of a lot of categories, my favorites as a mustachian are #1 (or 2, depending on who you ask) bicycling city, #1 park system, top of healthiest cities to live in, finding employment and most livable. The cost of living is incredibly reasonable considering.
Welcome!
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Are you buying or renting? The Twin Cities real estate market is a little ridiculous right now, houses not really making it past a day with multiple offers over asking.
That said, we live in the Hiawatha/Longfellow neighborhood mentioned above. Blocks from one of the best parks in the city, the Mississippi river (and trail), light rail, bus line, and a mile across the bridge from tons of retail/restaurants/groceries.
We recently moved here from Denver and absolutely love the place. I can't say enough good things. We've got two young kids and spend most of our waking moments outside (yes, even in the blistering cold) engaging in the bustle of the city and the awesome outdoors scene (biking, hiking, climbing, camping, swimming, boating, skating, skiing, fat biking).
Twin cities make the top ten lists of a lot of categories, my favorites as a mustachian are #1 (or 2, depending on who you ask) bicycling city, #1 park system, top of healthiest cities to live in, finding employment and most livable. The cost of living is incredibly reasonable considering.
Welcome!
We will certainly start out renting....and probably will have to do most of our searching for housing from a distance, so it will be a touch challenging. We will be doing lots of research on reputable apartments, and are open to suggestions if there any rental companies to stay away from...lol.
The lifestyle you describe sounds fantastic. Thank you for providing your firsthand experience...its not the same as depending on Top Ten articles from who knows who living who knows where!
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Northeast neighborhood is worth checking out too, but I don't really like it over there because it cuts you off from a huge part of the metro and a lot of potential jobs.
From the description you gave of yourselves I would reccomend whitter, stevens square, or midtown/powderhorn. All three have cheap apartments and are close to all the amenities you'll want.
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Here are the neighborhood keywords you want to search for:
If you can handle being by brown people, these neighborhoods are good:
powderhorn
stevens square (cheap apartments)
central
midtown
A little farther from the concentration of brown people but you'll still see them:
kingfield
southeast minneapolis
nokomis
hiawatha
Bleeding heart liberal hippy glbt neighborhoods:
seward
east lake street
longfellow
Cool downtown areas:
loring park (restaurant workers/single 9-5ers)
st anthony
north loop (ritzy $1800/mo 1 bedrooms)
If you need to be surrounded by white people(pricey):
lake of the isles
kenwood
calhoun
Good mix of people but by a lot of partying kids in their 20s:
uptown
whittier -> this is a great place and farther from the bro bars. You'd probably like it in this neighborhood.
Basically the farther west you go in minneapolis the richer and whiter it is, the farther east you go it turns into hippies/working class, if you go north it's where the city quarantined black people by cutting them off with a highway.
PM me if you want any specific information, I've lived here for a long time. Also, I know my post is a lot about race - but that's how it is here. People here are either small town/suburban people who are racist, or small town/suburban people who move here looking for a more tolerant and diverse way of life.
Humble mouse what do you think of NE? What are this demographics? I believe it has historically been working class polish type of area, is that correct? It seems more diverse to me now, probably because it is close to North (oh noes!) and fairly cheap at least until recently. But I'm not a native so I may be off.
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Just out of curiosity, why not move to Madison?
(oh, perhaps its the "not too close") thing.
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NE MPLS seems like it would be perfect for what you're looking for. It used to be a working class neighborhood and it still has a lot of that feel. Corner bars, cheaper duplexes. But it has also gone through a lot of gentrification, especially in the part of NE that is closest to downtown.
Not sure why humblemouse said NE cuts you off from jobs, other than it seems like they prefer southern neighborhoods. NE is very close to downtown MPLS, you drive over one bridge and you're there, and it is also close to two major thoroughfares, 35W and 94.
I would definitely add it to your list.
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NE MPLS seems like it would be perfect for what you're looking for. It used to be a working class neighborhood and it still has a lot of that feel. Corner bars, cheaper duplexes. But it has also gone through a lot of gentrification, especially in the part of NE that is closest to downtown.
Not sure why humblemouse said NE cuts you off from jobs, other than it seems like they prefer southern neighborhoods. NE is very close to downtown MPLS, you drive over one bridge and you're there, and it is also close to two major thoroughfares, 35W and 94.
I would definitely add it to your list.
(I do have a bias for south mpls area because I grew up there and I think northeast and the st paul greater area is boring and not worth living by. I also think the job selection is worse there overall)
I will argue in favor of living in south minneapolis/midtown/whitter because if you know where to look there are apartments for the same price/quality in northeast and in the three neighborhoods I listed.
Being in south minneapolis/midtown/whitter gives you access to an easy commute to all of the western suburbs and all of minneapolis.
If you live in in northeast and want to have a job anywhere on the other side of downtown mpls, you're going to be screwed. You do not just "Drive over the bridge and you're there."
What you do is you drive over the bridge and now you're fucked because morning traffic doesn't move and you can't park anywhere. Honestly you'd be silly to car commute into downtown from northeast. You should just take a bus/walk/bike - will be quicker and cheaper than a car.
Even though 94 and 35W are accessible from NE, if you try to drive anywhere except farther into NE/St Paul you're going to be stuck if traffic for over an hour.
I also just think Northeast is pretty lame in general. This is just my personal opinion, but go visit the neighborhoods yourself and feel the vibes.
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Twin Cities Maker makerspace is in south Minneapolis: http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/ (http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/)
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I think taking a look at the neighborhoods humblemouse mentioned is a great idea. Especially think about how you'll be getting around and access to amenities you want (e.g. how far to get to a bikeable street or trail?) However, I wouldn't get your heart set on any one specific neighborhood prior to moving - it might be more prudent to look for jobs & base your location off of that. Lots of big employers are outside of the two downtown areas and are located in the suburbs. If you get a job downtown then anywhere works because the bus routes will work great.
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Minneapolis isn't a big city unless you've never been to a big city, but that's part of what I love about it. I'm in the burbs inside the 494/694 loop, on over a quarter acre, easy access to nature trails, and can get downtown in less than 15 minutes by car or 20 minutes by bike+bus. It's definitely a city and offers the amenities a city does, but it isn't remotely like living in a big city, either. Heck, we smile at strangers on the street. Weird, right?
Most of your wants can be met many places in the city. You can't throw a stone without hitting a park. There are easily accessed lakes all around and the Mississippi river runs right by downtown with nice parks and paths nearby. Lots of shops sprinkled throughout the various neighborhoods. Check out everywhere on the big list, but I'll point towards Saint Anthony Main area, right across the river from downtown, good walking, some nice eats, lots of parks nearby. Had friends that lived in the Stone Arch Apartments and they were both nice and well located. Feels like you're right in the city without some of the craziness of being downtown proper. Also less than 3/4 mile to a nice grocery store with bike lanes both ways.
I'd also look for easy access to transit, especially the light rail if you plan to do much flying, as it's the easiest/cheapest way to the airport. Also easy access to bike routes, which are everywhere, some nicer to ride on than others. And if DH is in IT, the premium that tech workers are demanding right now should easily cover what will likely be an increase in housing costs from MO.
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Hope you make the move! The twin cities are great!
Check out our meetup thread, also has a link to our FB group. We're trying to be more social and plan more meetups. Maybe we can set one up when you are in town.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/meetups-and-social-events/twin-cities/ (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/meetups-and-social-events/twin-cities/)
I would take the job into consideration when choosing a place to live. 45min-1hr commutes aren't uncommon, but most of those people are driving in from the burbs. Even living within the city can be slow going during rush hour, but maybe more like 30min depending on where you are going.
I'll also chime in for the St. Paul side of the river. The St. Paul Midtown is one neighborhood I would look at, I don't live in this neighborhood, but I live nearby. It's essentially in the center between St. Paul and Minneapolis. It's beginning to show signs of gentrification, but it hasn't really started. You can still get good prices on homes and rentals. It's near the light rail line that connects the downtowns and bike paths/lanes to either downtown. Some good new breweries and an easy bike ride to Surly's new destination brewery.
St. Anthony Park is also a great neighborhood. Expensive and seems to tilt pretty liberal/white, but it's a neighborhood I find myself in quite a bit due to some of the restaurants (I also live nearby). Has easier access to downtown Minneapolis.
Merriam Park/Prospect Park is probably where I would move if I were looking to move at the moment. Nice neighborhoods with a few nice streets that have some good restaurants and coffee shops. Still Central between the two downtowns.
Highland Park. I personally wouldn't live here, but I have plenty of friends that do. It has lots of restaurants and coffee shops with mostly families nearby.
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I have lived in either the cities or suburbs my whole life. I love it here and would strongly recommend moving here. Great outdoors scene, great music scene, great food, cheap living, nice people, infinite lakes. We have a great thing going on here.
I have lived in a couple different areas in the cities:
- Northeast Minneapolis - I strongly disagree with Humblemouse. NE is known as THE if not one of the coolest parts of the city. I lived there for a year and absolutely loved it. Strongest art scene in the cities (or maybe tied with South Minneapolis). They have Art-A-Whirl, this awesome annual outdoor and indoor art festival (south minneapolis does have Northern Spark which I haven't been to but I believe is similar). Tons of coffee shops and delicious restaurants, an organic food co-op if that is your thing (Eastside co-op)
- Midway, St. Paul - I lived here for 2 years. Midway is 2nd tier cheap (with first tier cheapest being north minneapolis and eastside st. Paul - both of those areas come with an increase in crime and less neighborhood attractions, I say that having lived in both of those areas) - I really like Midway but it wouldn't be considered "hip". There is a college campus so a mix of young students and other residents. Cheap though and really close to the lightrail stop to get to either MPLS or STP
- Frogtown, St. Paul - I lived here for 3 years, this is right before the eastside officially starts (and is the neighborhood east of Midway). I liked it but it would be considered even less "hip" than Midway, although I did pay $320/month for rent for 3 years. This neighborhood is on the edge of being considered not so great, but I happened to like it a bunch. Not nearly as many nice restaurants and coffee shops if those are your things. You do get the Hmong market which is cool and a lot of great Asian restaurants. More crime.
- North Minneapolis - arguably the most dangerous part in the city (with the other contender being eastside st. paul). This is actually where I live and I bought a house here. There are nice spots and bad spots but I absolutely do not recommend moving here without coming here in person and seeing where you would be living and what the surrounding area would be like. North has a cool feel to it though and great parks, some great restaurants, and it can be really pretty. It can also be pretty ugly and scary though. Like when you have to pull bullet casings out of your exgirlfriend's car when two cars fly down your block shooting at each other. I like it here but if I would have had more money for a house I would have gotten my exact same house but maybe in South Minneapolis or Northeast instead.
Those are the places I've lived but I've also spent a lot of time in other areas of the cities:
- Dinkytown - this is the name that we give to the residential/commerical district around the University of Minnesota - East Bank (The U of M has three campuses in the cities, west bank of the Mississippi - over by Cedar/Riverside, the east bank of the Mississippi (Dinkytown), and St. Paul (just south of Roseville, a suburb) - super pretty and would be a great spot to live over there to. Dinkytown has a college party scene with it but also good food and a concert venue. I probably wouldn't recommend living here but you could either consider Marcy-Holmes which is the neighborhood immediately adjacent to the west, just over the freeway, a little quieter. Or maybe the como area which is just adjacent to the east
- Uptown - Just south of downtown, used to be a pretty "hip" area but those have shifted a little more east to Seward and Powderhorn or North to Northeast. Still a cool area but it's one of the more expensive areas to live. If you wanted to be close to Uptown (which would not be a bad idea, tons of stuff to do) you could maybe look a little more south/east of the Chain of Lakes like over by Lake Nokomis or Powderhorn (art capital).
Anyway, that's a little bit scattered so I apologize, I just woke up. I can definitely clarify and even go into more detail if you want. I love it here and would be happy to answer any questions. I am younger (mid twenties) so that could potentially squew my answers (although I love my peace and quiet and don't party too much anymore so I think that provides some balance to my answers). You can send me a private message if you wish. Thank you Cromacster for that link to the Twin Cities thread, I didn't know that existed so I will have to check it out.
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The Twin Cities is a great place to live - sans the weather. Great infrastructure, schools, arts, food, etc.
But I do not like Minneapolis or St Paul. There are some good areas in both cities but they are just not worth the crap you have to put up with.
Some of the first ring suburbs are a better choice: close to city activities but you don't have to put up with crappy city government and its problems.
Just look at the house values in Edina vs Minneapolis - the houses that are across the street from each other.
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Someone started my thread! I'm planning a move to Minneapolis too.
Background: I'm an older single woman (with one high school kid left in the nest). I've been Mustachian all my life, but a divorce from h-dash-double-ell 6 years ago wiped out my stash. I'm rebuilding it as fast as I can.
I currently live in an expen$ive Boston suburb, and have to stay here until my kid is out of high school in 2 years. [Judge ruling. I tried to change this and lost.] I have a cheap for this town rental, $1800 a month. [Not a typo.] Other expenses are quite low. Absolutely no debt, except for credit cards which get paid off every month. Net worth is about $100k, increasing by about $20k a year, more if I can. [I'm debating starting a Case Study ... my finances are good but could be better.]
I'm getting close to non-early retirement age. I love my work (web design) and am happy doing it for several more years, but I know I'll have to slow down sometime. I love my town but can't afford to live here — average single family home price is about $800k!
My current plan is to move to Minneapolis, find a fixer-upper duplex in a high-rent neighborhood (Uptown?), fix up one unit to a luxury rental and live in the other, hopefully having the rent cover most or all my housing costs. I have friends in one of the western suburbs, and have visited them in all seasons (I like cold winters). Last visit, they introduced me to a real estate agent who thinks my idea is feasible. I *like* Minneapolis, especially the older, non "tracted waste" neighborhoods. [St. Louis Park ... the rows of identical houses were depressing.]
Any advice from the local Mustachians?
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I will throw in a vote for Hamline-Midway in St. Paul. I know, I know, Minneapolis people think St. Paul is boring. My younger SIL once told me St. Paul is where "people go to die" LOL. Well, I'm still alive so PHEW.
In particular I like being a 10 minute walk from the Green Line, which is a 15 minute ride to ~either~ downtown, no fuss no muss. I went to a Twins game and it was 30 minutes door to door and cost me $3.50 round trip. You can't beat that for convenience. If there's construction on 35E, I can easily use 35W and not lose time (or vice versa) because I'm basically equidistant to both. But honestly, there will probably be construction on both so it makes no difference HA. I'm a 10-15 minute drive to the airport (which is a super cheap cab if you so choose). I'm always driving ~against~ the flow of traffic for rush hour, since everyone else lives in the burbs and commutes in. I'm 30 minutes to Stillwater, 30 minutes to Hastings and less than an hour to awesome tubing at Welch. I can visit my family in southern suburbs, my SO's family in northern suburbs and friends in eastern suburbs all in under a 30 minute drive because I'm in the middle of everything (notice we don't cross the river much :P)! Also, I'm close-ish to the State Fair, if that's your thing. If anything, you can take advantage of free fireworks or auto-show entertainment by posting up a lawn chair along Snelling Avenue during events.
I was told by a realtor once that Hamline-Midway is a step up from NE. I have no idea if that's true, since I've never lived in NE, but if you're going to look at NE as an option you may want to look at Hamline-Midway as well. I've heard there are similarities. We don't have as many cool bars, but we do have the Turf Club! Eh?! Ok, not as cool haha.
As far as housing goes, these are older homes (early 1900s), many of which have been remodeled. You'll hear the term "good bones" which means, they'll probably stand 100 years longer than the crap they're building in outer-ring suburbs, but it also means don't ever open a wall (plaster, not drywall) unless you want to gasp in horror at all the work to get it up to code. Just close that wall back up and back away slowly...
They've been dumping development money into the University-94 corridor, with a soccer stadium planned in the next few years. That's leading to a bit of gentrification the closer you get to that area, but homes this spring/summer are getting snatched up within a day of being on market. I haven't seen anything like it in years.
Anyway... hope that's enough info to get a St. Paul location on the list, even though that's where PEOPLE GO TO DIE haha :)
Edit: I forgot the best part. I know this isn't unique to St. Paul, as you'll find this in many Minneapolis neighborhoods too, but there are so many mini-homestead situations cropping up. Neighbors are getting chickens. People are building vegetable gardens in their front yards. There are at least 3 community gardens I can think of in the general vicinity. More and more I see people ditching the pristine lawn concept for food growing, and I'm loving the trend. I kind of love the city for that, as it's not something I tend to see in the suburbs.