Author Topic: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.  (Read 14184 times)

CmFtns

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Re: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2015, 09:13:12 AM »
You're still very early in your journey simmilar to me and I love cool stuff but every time I get the urge to go out and spend a chunk of change I remind myself that the money you save in the beginning is the most important money. It has the most time to grow.

I would put off a purchase that big till you have a couple years under your belt and a couple hundred thousand dollars of net worth and then if you still want it go for it.

My dad has an 88' wrangler in beautiful condition, and it's great fun, but we never get around to driving it off roads where it belongs.

This is a $1k purchase that's less than a month's savings for me-- do I really need to be a hundred-thousand-aire to justify it? Let's say I buy it, dump another $500 into it, drive it a few times a year, realize it mostly sits around, and decide to sell it. I can probably get that same $1k I originally paid for it, and I don't think $500 is a lot to spend on a hobby. But there I go, trying to justify it again....

A $1k jeep is going to be in not so great condition and I don't think you will get through this process and come out only -$500 net worth. If you believe you can then you are right $500 is not a significant amount for a year or two hobby. I would just make sure to research it first.

LiveLean

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Re: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2015, 10:21:02 AM »
Twice I went shopping for Jeep Wranglers -- in 2001 and 2010. Sticker shock for both new and used was, and remains, ridiculous.

Both times I instead bought new Jeep Liberties for under $22K out the door. First one lasted eight years, 100K miles and brought 6K in trade. Second one is five years old with 60K miles. Neither, knock on wood, have presented any major maintenance headaches.

The Wrangler is a glorified postal vehicle that doesn't even come with leather seating and drives like an amusement park ride. If you're looking to project an image of an outdoorsy badass, get a used Liberty for a fraction of the price.

That said, you're 22. I spent my 20s driving Chevy compacts (Beretta, Cavalier) even when I could afford a lot more. That has contributed to being well on the road to FIRE.

trailrated

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Re: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2015, 11:03:28 AM »
I love mine. I had wanted one for years and finally pulled the trigger. Although it is very unmustachian, the amount of satisfaction I get out of it makes it well worth it to me. I have my dream car and it's worth roughly ~$7,000.

BarkyardBQ

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Re: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2015, 11:35:53 AM »
Twice I went shopping for Jeep Wranglers -- in 2001 and 2010. Sticker shock for both new and used was, and remains, ridiculous.

Both times I instead bought new Jeep Liberties for under $22K out the door. First one lasted eight years, 100K miles and brought 6K in trade. Second one is five years old with 60K miles. Neither, knock on wood, have presented any major maintenance headaches.

The Wrangler is a glorified postal vehicle that doesn't even come with leather seating and drives like an amusement park ride. If you're looking to project an image of an outdoorsy badass, get a used Liberty for a fraction of the price.

That said, you're 22. I spent my 20s driving Chevy compacts (Beretta, Cavalier) even when I could afford a lot more. That has contributed to being well on the road to FIRE.

Wow. You have no idea what you're talking about. Just stop. It's painful to read people talk about something they don't understand.

You can not take a Liberty off-road, that asphalt cruiser will get stuck, broke, and your paint job and body will come out looking like a crumpled aluminum can. That's after you cry because you scratched it when you drove by a bush and got some Arizona Pinstriping.

You bought a 22k Liberty because the used sticker price for a 5 year old Jeep is still 25k? Which is because they hold their value, being that they can last decades and are in high demand. You can easily buy a fully functional well maintained Jeep Wrangler for 5-7 grand if you buy something 12 years old. They last for decades, amortize that if you must.

Who the * would want leather seats in a vehicle you'll drive through mud, dirt, and with the top off!

I'd rather spend a day venturing out in the Jeep than a day at Six Flags any time. I'll have more fun, the 'rollercoaster' track comes with great views and places only a few see, no lines anywhere. Which is way more fun than driving around in your Jeep branded daily driver, which is only good for driving you to work and picking up groceries in your leather air conditioned throne. A Liberty does not portray an image of a 'outdoorsy baddass', it portrays an image of someone who bought the wrong vehicle attempting to look like they might own a pair of hiking boots.

And finally, 'glorified postal vehicle', are you kidding? How about war machine... http://ww2db.com/vehicle_spec.php?q=243 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep#World_War_II_Jeeps

The dogs disagree with you too.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 01:02:07 PM by zdravé »

BarkyardBQ

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Re: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2015, 11:58:42 AM »
Now that my rant is over... let's actually evaluate a Jeep Wrangler as a Mustachian purchase. They are durable, customizable, easy to maintain. You can buy one for 5-7k. You can drive it for 50 years. My friends dad has a 1950's Jeep and it's still functional.

So lets say over a lifetime, you have to replace an engine, transmission, clutch, maybe an axle or two, periodic tires and other maintenance.

Engine $2500-3000, replace every 200-300k miles (a rebuild is even cheaper)
Transmission $500-900, replace every 300k miles
Clutch $500, replace every 200k miles.

4-5k every 300k miles is cheaper than any Mustachian vehicle I've seen suggested here. Gas mileage is about 13mpg, it's not a daily driver. Off-roading frequently will require additional maintenance and repairs, but they are still relatively cheap for anyone who's willing.

The parts are cheap, the parts will always be cheap, because they are still building replacement parts for 50+ year old vehicles. The parts are mostly standardized for multiple models and many of the parts are so mass produced they are also available for lightweight utility trucks and other vehicles. Mustachian perspective is to drive a car for 200-300k miles and replace the whole car, because it doesn't have much value after that. Except a Jeep can keep going, all you have to do is replace a part once in a while.

These vehicles literally last decades if you take care of them, and provide opportunity for decades of recreational camping, hiking, and outdoors access you can't get parking at your local trail head.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 12:58:52 PM by zdravé »

trailrated

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Re: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2015, 12:24:35 PM »
Now that my rant is over... let's actually evaluate a Jeep Wrangler as a Mustachian purchase. They are durable, customizable, easy to maintain. You can buy one for 5-7k. You can drive it for 50 years. My friends dad has a 1950's Jeep and it's still functional.

So lets say over a lifetime, you have to replace an engine, transmission, clutch, maybe an axel or two, periodic tires and other maintenance.

Engine $2500-3000, replace every 200-300k miles (a rebuild is even cheaper)
Transmission $500-900, replace every 300k miles
Clutch $500, replace every 200k miles.

4-5k every 300k miles is cheaper than any Mustachian vehicle I've seen suggested here. Gas mileage is about 13mpg, it's not a daily driver. Off-roading frequently will require additional maintenance and repairs, but they are still relatively cheap for anyone who's willing.

The parts are cheap, the parts will always be cheap, because they are still building replacement parts for 50+ year old vehicles. The parts are mostly standardized for multiple models and many of the parts are so mass produced they are also available for lightweight utility trucks and other vehicles. Mustachian perspective is to drive a car for 200-300k miles and replace the whole car, because it doesn't have much value after that. Except a Jeep can keep going, all you have to do is replace a part once in a while.

These vehicles literally last decades if you take care of them, and provide opportunity for decades of recreational camping, hiking, and outdoors access you can't get parking at your local trail head.

That was fucking awesome

Jack

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Re: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2015, 02:22:04 PM »
The Wrangler ... doesn't even come with leather seating and drives like an amusement park ride.

Aren't those selling features? People buy Wranglers because they want water-proof seats and really good off-road handling (with the trade-off of a shitty ride on paved roads).

Well, either that or they're idiots...

Now that my rant is over... let's actually evaluate a Jeep Wrangler as a Mustachian purchase. They are durable, customizable, easy to maintain. You can buy one for 5-7k. You can drive it for 50 years. My friends dad has a 1950's Jeep and it's still functional.

So lets say over a lifetime, you have to replace an engine, transmission, clutch, maybe an axle or two, periodic tires and other maintenance.

Engine $2500-3000, replace every 200-300k miles (a rebuild is even cheaper)
Transmission $500-900, replace every 300k miles
Clutch $500, replace every 200k miles.

4-5k every 300k miles is cheaper than any Mustachian vehicle I've seen suggested here. Gas mileage is about 13mpg, it's not a daily driver. Off-roading frequently will require additional maintenance and repairs, but they are still relatively cheap for anyone who's willing.

The parts are cheap, the parts will always be cheap, because they are still building replacement parts for 50+ year old vehicles. The parts are mostly standardized for multiple models and many of the parts are so mass produced they are also available for lightweight utility trucks and other vehicles. Mustachian perspective is to drive a car for 200-300k miles and replace the whole car, because it doesn't have much value after that. Except a Jeep can keep going, all you have to do is replace a part once in a while.

These vehicles literally last decades if you take care of them, and provide opportunity for decades of recreational camping, hiking, and outdoors access you can't get parking at your local trail head.

Don't try to over-sell it. Everything you've said about the maintenance costs applies even more to more reasonable cars. I could make exactly the same argument about (for example) a 50-year-old VW Beetle, except that the parts would be even cheaper and it'd get better fuel economy.

BarkyardBQ

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Re: Considering buying a Jeep. I need a sanity check.
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2015, 02:34:29 PM »
Don't try to over-sell it. Everything you've said about the maintenance costs applies even more to more reasonable cars. I could make exactly the same argument about (for example) a 50-year-old VW Beetle, except that the parts would be even cheaper and it'd get better fuel economy.

No argument there. My point is to simply say, driving a single vehicle into the ground and replacing it with a new one for 5-10k every 5-10 years is still more expensive then replacing whatever necessary part needs it. Whether it's a Jeep, Bug, or Toyota Corolla... I have never once seen any argument here for someone saying drive your Corolla into the ground, then replace the engine.