Author Topic: What car to buy?  (Read 3073 times)

alsoknownasDean

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What car to buy?
« on: March 29, 2020, 08:12:31 AM »
Right so my old hatchback has a leaky water pump, worn shocks and apparently the exhaust is starting to rust out. I've decided that it's about time to replace it, especially as I'm tired of driving a manual transmission. It's also got a very weak heater so I'd like to not have to deal with that through winter.

At this stage I'd like to keep the purchase price nice and low, and I do a fair bit of low speed city driving (maybe a little less once I move in May). Obviously with moving and the COVID-19 situation I'm looking at the replacement probably in June.

Now, the situation is that there's two choices I see that would fit my criteria. It's complicated by the fact that I'm after cruise control.

1) A Ford Focus or similar mid-late 2000s 1.8-2.0L small hatchback, for about $5000 (maybe a bit less). Tricky part of that is that a lot of them on the roads are base models which don't come with cruise control, and some models (Corolla) don't offer cruise even in most of the higher trim versions.

2) A bigger and slightly older 6cyl sedan, for about $2500-3000 (think Nissan Maxima class). Should be very easy to get one with an auto box and cruise. They're unloved by the market, so they're cheap, but of course it's thirstier and more difficult to parallel park.

So what should I do? Cheaper big sedan that I can beat on and not give a damn, or something a little smaller and more manageable around town that costs more upfront? My current car was $3000 and I quite enjoy the 'costs so little I don't really give a damn' approach to motoring. Although potentially I'd replace it in 2 years or so. I'm doing between 10-15,000km per year.

I have also considered picking up something cheap ($500) from the auctions and learning to wrench on it and get it roadworthy myself.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 07:29:27 AM by alsoknownasDean »

Syonyk

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2020, 01:26:47 PM »
Never mind.  Ban me.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:52:36 PM by Syonyk »

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2020, 09:47:10 PM »
You know, you have a car that sounds like it just needs a little bit of wrenching... ;)

What about a Prius?  Pretty sure most of those come with cruise control, and they're not that hard to find or work on.

Do any trim levels of your current car come with cruise control?  On a lot of vehicles, if any of the trim levels come with it, it's not hard to find the controls and actuator and add it.  I've done this on various cars I've owned over the years.  The wiring harness almost always has the right connections, because it's way cheaper to have a bit of extra wire in the low trim cars than to have multiple wiring harness options.

Haha, this is true. I have considered doing the water pump myself, but that's driven by the timing belt (almost due anyway) and I need to remove an engine mount to access it. I could try it after I move, but it's not happening now in an apartment parking lot. I'm not replacing the shocks myself, I'm too careless to use spring compressors :)

Prius is definitely an option but they tend to be more expensive. I'd need to spend probably $6-7k for a reasonable one, which is a fair bit for a car that's about 15 years old. Is it worth buying a 2006 Prius for similar money to a normal car that's 3-5 years younger?

It's worth a look but none of the Australian delivered models came with cruise (although I believe some European-market models may have). I did Google the process and it wasn't all that straightforward (some of the wiring isn't there so I'd need to splice it in). Aftermarket kits are about $600 (drive by wire), and that $600 is probably better spent on another car. Especially as I'm now after an automatic transmission.

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2020, 09:30:01 AM »
Now, the situation is that there's two choices I see that would fit my criteria. It's complicated by the fact that I'm after cruise control.
1) A Ford Focus or similar mid-late 2000s 1.8-2.0L small hatchback, for about $5000 (maybe a bit less). Tricky part of that is that a lot of them on the roads are base models which don't come with cruise control,
This will be an unpopular opinion, and you haven't stated what your current financial situation is like, but...
I would buy a brand new Toyota Corolla or similar.

Spending $5000 on a 15 year old compact car with 100K+ miles is insanity in my opinion.
You can buy a brand new vehicle for ~$17K that has cruise control, automatic transmission, all of the latest safety features and ZERO miles.

Buy new, keep it for 15+ years with little/no repairs, then sell private party for a good chunk of resale value.
Your annual vehicle costs over those 15 years will be FAR LOWER than buying a 15 year old, $5K car every few years and putting $$ into repairs to keep it on the road.

Syonyk

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 09:43:26 AM »
Never mind.  Ban me.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:52:28 PM by Syonyk »

acepedro45

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2020, 09:55:37 AM »
Given professional repair costs, I agree it's probably time to dump your current ride. I am encouraged by your interest in wrenching, though! If your current car is still limping along and you feel inspired, you could give DIY a shot after June rolls around. Most of the repairs you listed are somewhat involved - especially the timing belt & water pump (do these together) - so be careful not to bite off more than you can chew.

I would shoot for the smaller, more economical car choice over the battered Maxima and its ilk, but I don't think you'd be going terribly wrong either way.
Quote
I'd need to spend probably $6-7k for a reasonable one, which is a fair bit for a car that's about 15 years old. Is it worth buying a 2006 Prius for similar money to a normal car that's 3-5 years younger?
I felt the same way. The Prius is an interesting choice, but it always seems overpriced compared to its conventionally powered brothers and sisters even after accounting for lower fuel and maintenance costs. I badly wanted the Prius a few years ago but never could quite justify the numbers against the Corolla/Focus class. The economics are close enough that there's a values argument here for the Prius, but strictly by dollars and cents it never quite made sense to me.

I have a 2005 Corolla LE (2nd lowest trim) and it includes cruise control, so I thought your pessimism about availability of CC seemed overdone. ETA: In my original post, I didn't realize you're in Melbourne, so maybe things are different than the U.S.
Quote
Spending $5000 on a 15 year old compact car with 100K+ miles is insanity in my opinion....Your annual vehicle costs over those 15 years will be FAR LOWER than buying a 15 year old, $5K car every few years and putting $$ into repairs to keep it on the road.

I disagree.

Driving an old economy car is a good financial move.
Going DIY on car maintenance and repairs is a good financial move.
Going DIY on an old economy car is a great financial move, with synergies that are greater than the sum of each measure individually.

It's true stuff breaks/needs attention on an old car sometimes but even with professional repair costs it's cheaper to drive something old. But instead of "putting $$ into repairs" try putting just $ into repairs yourself and you can really cut down on transportation costs. I myself have realistic hopes to drive our Corolla for 10 years even though it was already 13 years old when I bought it.

I won't touch the safety issue because that argument can go on for days.


Edited for spelling

« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 01:41:41 PM by acepedro45 »

Syonyk

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2020, 10:27:31 AM »
Never mind.  Ban me.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:52:20 PM by Syonyk »

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2020, 11:09:50 AM »
I disagree.

Driving an old economy car is a good financial move.
Going DIY on car maintenance and repairs is a good financial move.
Going DIY on an old economy car is a great financial move, with synergies that are greater than the sum of each measure individually.

It's true stuff breaks/needs attention on an old car sometimes but even with professional repair costs it's cheaper to drive something old.
Your analysis is wrong, because you haven't even factored in the price of the car!
Yes, drying an "old economy car" can be a good financial move, but not if you are spending $5000 on a 15 year old Ford Focus!

The OP doesn't say how many miles he puts on cars before getting rid of them, but let's assume 200K miles.
- The OP could buy a $17K new Corolla with 0 miles (100% life left) and keep it for 200K miles.
- Or he could spend $5K on a 15 year old Ford Focus with 150K miles (10K miles/yr), which means it only has 25% life left.

Given this, the OP would SPEND LESS IN THE LONG RUN with the new vehicle, even if it cost upwards of $20K.

This only factors in the purchase price, and not all of the other factors that make the new vehicle an even better deal...
- Known maintenance/repair history (not buying someone's junker)
- Full factory warranty
- Far lower maintenance/repair costs (the best/cheapest miles haven't been used up)
- Lower transaction costs - taxes/title/tags/dealer doc fees (you'd have to buy 4+ used cars for every new car)
- Less time/effort/hassle - fewer breakdowns/repairs, time spent selling your current cars, searching for/buying the next car, ect.

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2020, 11:31:31 AM »
- The OP could buy a $17K new Corolla with 0 miles (100% life left)
The OP is in Melbourne. The cheapest brand new automatic Corolla would be $28.7k there.

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2020, 11:41:54 AM »
- The OP could buy a $17K new Corolla with 0 miles (100% life left)
The OP is in Melbourne. The cheapest brand new automatic Corolla would be $28.7k there.
Ahhh, that explains a lot.  I did not catch that.

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2020, 11:44:56 AM »
- The OP could buy a $17K new Corolla with 0 miles (100% life left)
The OP is in Melbourne. The cheapest brand new automatic Corolla would be $28.7k there.
Ahhh, that explains a lot.  I did not catch that.
Yeah, it explains the high cost of the used cars as well. $5k USD would buy a 2010 Focus (instead of ~2005) here in the US but obviously the Australia market/dollar are a different thing.

acepedro45

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2020, 11:58:05 AM »
I disagree.

Driving an old economy car is a good financial move.
Going DIY on car maintenance and repairs is a good financial move.
Going DIY on an old economy car is a great financial move, with synergies that are greater than the sum of each measure individually.

It's true stuff breaks/needs attention on an old car sometimes but even with professional repair costs it's cheaper to drive something old.
Your analysis is wrong, because you haven't even factored in the price of the car!
Yes, drying an "old economy car" can be a good financial move, but not if you are spending $5000 on a 15 year old Ford Focus!

The OP doesn't say how many miles he puts on cars before getting rid of them, but let's assume 200K miles.
- The OP could buy a $17K new Corolla with 0 miles (100% life left) and keep it for 200K miles.
- Or he could spend $5K on a 15 year old Ford Focus with 150K miles (10K miles/yr), which means it only has 25% life left.

Given this, the OP would SPEND LESS IN THE LONG RUN with the new vehicle, even if it cost upwards of $20K.

This only factors in the purchase price, and not all of the other factors that make the new vehicle an even better deal...
- Known maintenance/repair history (not buying someone's junker)
- Full factory warranty
- Far lower maintenance/repair costs (the best/cheapest miles haven't been used up)
- Lower transaction costs - taxes/title/tags/dealer doc fees (you'd have to buy 4+ used cars for every new car)
- Less time/effort/hassle - fewer breakdowns/repairs, time spent selling your current cars, searching for/buying the next car, ect.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but is the extension of your argument to always buy new? If so, I violently disagree. Or maybe you'd prefer a different vintage of used cars?

I can't speak to the Aussie dollar effect, but I am assuming the relationships between new and used prices are pretty constant percentage-wise globally. The simple fact is that a beater used economy car, chosen carefully from a private party, is a much better deal than any new car, doubly or triply so if you are willing to perform your own maintenance.

If you insist on arguing about numbers, I take issue with 200k as the end of the line for a car, especially a Japanese import. With the advancement of automotive tech and the quality wars with the Japanese manufacturers over the last couple decades, it's not unusual at all for any car to reach 250k, and a well-maintained Honda or Toyota is likely to see 300k. 

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2020, 12:02:55 PM »
Yeah, it explains the high cost of the used cars as well. $5k USD would buy a 2010 Focus (instead of ~2005) here in the US but obviously the Australia market/dollar are a different thing.
The OP would need to re-do my math, using the relevant numbers for Australia, to see where the new vs. used breaking point is.

It's possible the new vehicle would still make sense in his case, but I know nothing about the Australian car market or currency.

Syonyk

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2020, 12:05:25 PM »
Never mind.  Ban me.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:52:11 PM by Syonyk »

acepedro45

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2020, 12:07:45 PM »
Haha, @researcher1 I was just typing up an edit to my comment: Rereading all this I was curious to know if your objection was to the idea of the economy beater car in general or if it's to this particular 15-year-old Focus. Cause if I didn't factor in the Melbourne effect, I'd be pretty grossed out by that $5,000 price too.

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2020, 12:50:43 PM »
I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but is the extension of your argument to always buy new? If so, I violently disagree. Or maybe you'd prefer a different vintage of used cars?

The simple fact is that a beater used economy car, chosen carefully from a private party, is a much better deal than any new car, doubly or triply so if you are willing to perform your own maintenance.
You apparently did not fully read or comprehend my post.
Of course I'm not saying to always buy new. 
I'm saying you can follow a very simple calculation to determine whether new or used is the better value.

Just plug in the numbers relevant to your situation (this is just an example)...
- New Car:  $17,000 and 200,000 total miles (100% life left)
- Used Car:  $5,000 and 25% life left (150K-200K=50K, then 50K/200K=25%)
- Used Car Price: You should spend far LESS than $4,250 on the used car ($17,000*25%)

It is simple math.  Most people just look at the lower price of the used car and assume that is the better value, but don't consider how much usable life is actually left in the car, or look at the total long-term costs of vehicle ownership.

Quote
If you insist on arguing about numbers, I take issue with 200k as the end of the line for a car, especially a Japanese import. With the advancement of automotive tech and the quality wars with the Japanese manufacturers over the last couple decades, it's not unusual at all for any car to reach 250k, and a well-maintained Honda or Toyota is likely to see 300k.
I don't disagree with you on vehicle lifespans.  But the only thing that matters is how long normal consumers actually keep their car.
The fact is that VERY FEW people will actually drive their cars up to 300K miles.

Every car I've ever owned I've kept for 10+ years.  But none of them ever got close to 300K miles.

Syonyk

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2020, 01:03:51 PM »
Never mind.  Ban me.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:52:02 PM by Syonyk »

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2020, 01:07:08 PM »
If your math demonstrates a new car makes sense, it should demonstrate that a 1-2 year old car, with 20k miles, for 30% less, should make an awful lot more sense.
It is simple math. 
You can run the numbers yourself (with the cars and mileage of your choosing), to determine if new or used is a better value.

I'm curious what make/model you are referring to when you claim to buy a 1 year old car with 20K miles for a 30% discount?

And a 30% discount from what, the MSRP of a new model?
Because MSRP is a meaningless number for comparison purposes, as no one ever pays MSRP.

For the last new car I purchased, the lightly used models (1-2 year old, 30K miles) stickered for more than I paid for my brand new car.  And I could never get dealers to budge much from their used car prices.

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2020, 01:13:51 PM »
And this is the MMM forums, so "very few people doing it" is no reason not to be considering it.
A Japanese economy car is absolutely a 300k+ mile car, properly maintained.
And old cars are a lot cheaper to maintain than new cars.
Why don't you do a poll on MMM and see how many people drive their vehicles over 300K miles.
The number will be VERY small.

Yes, of course Japanese economy cars can be 300K+ mile cars.  That is not in dispute.
But the fact is, few people actually keep cars that long, whether or not they are a MMM follower.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 01:16:55 PM by researcher1 »

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2020, 01:20:45 PM »
Why don't you do a poll on MMM and see how many people drive their vehicles over 300K miles.
The number will be VERY small.

Yes, of course Japanese economy cars can be 300K+ mile cars.  That is not in dispute.
But the fact is, few people actually keep cars that long, whether or not they are a MMM follower.
There are several on just the first page of this thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/brag-on-your-mmm-high-mileage-or-old-car/

acepedro45

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2020, 01:25:10 PM »
Quote
You apparently did not fully read or comprehend my post.
Of course I'm not saying to always buy new. 
I'm saying you can follow a very simple calculation to determine whether new or used is the better value.

Assuming you are willing to work on your own car, there's no need to do any calculations at all, provided the economy beater is priced somewhere decently close to fair market value and purchased with an even slightly discerning eye - i.e. not a total ticking time bomb. The used car is better value, period. If you are curious as the extent of your savings (I am) do crunch on.

The OP wanted help deciding between two different classes of ancient beaters. I realize we are entering thread derail territory so this will be my last reply to the new-vs-used debate. I mean that respectfully @researcher1 and not as a sign-off-in-a-huff kind of way. 

Syonyk

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2020, 01:28:24 PM »
Never mind.  Ban me.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:51:53 PM by Syonyk »

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2020, 01:45:22 PM »
Why don't you do a poll on MMM and see how many people drive their vehicles over 300K miles.
The number will be VERY small.

Yes, of course Japanese economy cars can be 300K+ mile cars.  That is not in dispute.
But the fact is, few people actually keep cars that long, whether or not they are a MMM follower.
There are several on just the first page of this thread:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/brag-on-your-mmm-high-mileage-or-old-car/
A quick review of the last ~100 posts appears to prove my theory.

I only saw two (2) posters with cars that were close to 300K miles.
And keep in mind this is a biased self-selected sample, weighted towards those with higher mileage vehicles.

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2020, 02:15:52 PM »
First couple years depreciation is a big hit, though I don't have exact numbers, because I'm not in the market for vehicles.  And the stuff I do tend to buy is so weird the depreciation curves... yeah, don't ask.  There's not a generally functional market for Russian sidecar motorcycles in the US, you sort of take what you can get.
So what you're saying is that you just made up that scenario.
Crappy econoboxes made by Fiat/Chrysler or luxury cars may see depreciation numbers like you quoted.
But the fact is, it is extremely rare to find a 1 yr old vehicle with 20K miles, from well-regarded brand, at a 30% discount from real-world new car prices.

Quote
You clearly like your new cars.
You've clearly found a variety of math you like that "proves" it's a better deal.
And you're pretty well in the weeds of this forum.  Suggesting people buy brand new cars is pretty far away from the general ethos as written in the blog.
I like new cars in some cases, because I've done the math, and found them to be a better value than the used cars I've considered.
And it is not "my variety of math."  It is a simple calculation that can be applied to any new vs. used scenario.
As I've mentioned earlier, people don't think critically about this, they just look at the price differential between MSRP and used car prices.
They don't factor in the amount of life left in the used vehicles, or the fact that MSRP is a fantasy number that no one pays.

Quote
Because I don't approach my transportation needs based on popularity?
It is not about "popularity".  It is about simple consumer behavior.  The vast majority of consumers do NOT keep their cars till 300K miles, for whatever reason.
It's great to talk about driving cars to 300K in theory.  But in practice, it rarely happens.

Quote
And if you're selling a car that will run to 300k miles at 200k, the value is far higher than "scrap value," which your math conveniently ignores.
I didn't include the resale value of EITHER the new or used car in my calculation.  If I accounted for resale value, the math would tip the scales even further towards new  being a better value.  Which do you think has a higher resale value (assuming  both were the same make/model)...
- 1 owner car, 100% adult driven, meticulously cared for, all maintenance/repair records
- 3 or 4 owner car, unknown driving history, unknown maintenance history, minimal records

Syonyk

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2020, 02:36:17 PM »
Never mind.  Ban me.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:51:49 PM by Syonyk »

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2020, 02:48:28 PM »
20k miles in 2 years is far more normal to find.
It is NOT "far more normal" to find a 2yr/20K mile used car at a 30% discount from real-world new car prices.
Again, what make/model are you talking about here?
For the vehicles I buy (Honda/Toyota sedans/SUVs), it is virtually non-existent.

Quote
But I'm not going to sit down and do a research paper on car depreciation values for you.  If you're convinced that a new car is cheaper, fine.  You do it that way.  But don't expect everyone to agree with you.
You clearly haven't comprehended anything I've written.  I am absolutely not "convinced that a new car is cheaper."
I'm saying...YOU HAVE TO DO THE MATH TO DETERMINE WHETHER NEW OR USED IS A BETTER LONG-TERM VALUE.

It is different for every car & scenario.
In some cases, the used car is absolutely a better value.  In other cases, the new car is better.
It is not about having everyone to agree with me.  The numbers don't lie.  You won't know unless you run the numbers.

HotTubes

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2020, 03:40:04 PM »
I always get a chuckle at the Corolla advice because thatís the most unreliable of the 18 cars Iíve owned - I know itís only my data but it always makes me chuckle

I think the sweet spot now would be a 2017 something with some warranty or certified if that can get added cheaply - not sure about non-US markets though

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2020, 04:09:55 PM »
Yeah, it explains the high cost of the used cars as well. $5k USD would buy a 2010 Focus (instead of ~2005) here in the US but obviously the Australia market/dollar are a different thing.
The OP would need to re-do my math, using the relevant numbers for Australia, to see where the new vs. used breaking point is.

It's possible the new vehicle would still make sense in his case, but I know nothing about the Australian car market or currency.

Yeah IIRC a new base model automatic Corolla is $24,390 plus on road costs. Pick the hybrid option, and maybe one or two optional extras and you're looking at $30K by the time you drive it off the lot. That's before prices inevitably get adjusted for the recent exchange rate changes. Not happening when I've just put most of my savings into a home downpayment. :)

And yeah, prices are quoted in AUD, multiply by 0.6 to get the USD amount.

If I had more cash available, I would consider buying a 2-3 year old Hyundai i30 or similar with about 60,000km for about $17,000. However after just buying a place that won't be happening at this stage. I know the i30 is a good car, my mum has a 2010 version that has been very reliable.

I have a 2005 Corolla LE (2nd lowest trim) and it includes cruise control, so I thought your pessimism about availability of CC seemed overdone. ETA: In my original post, I didn't realize you're in Melbourne, so maybe things are different than the U.S.

Yeah the mid 2000s Corolla doesn't seem to have it available on any model, not even the top-spec Ultima. The later series seems to offer it on all models except the base Ascent, but they're more expensive.

Seems there's no love for the big cheap beater sedan. Probably fair enough considering my use case, but the savings in purchase price are likely offset by increased fuel consumption, even with the current low fuel prices.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:56:53 PM by alsoknownasDean »

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2020, 04:55:25 PM »
Yeah IIRC a new base model automatic Corolla is $24,390 plus on road costs. Pick the hybrid option, and maybe one or two optional extras and you're looking at $30K by the time you drive it off the lot. That's before prices inevitably get adjusted for the recent exchange rate changes. Not happening when I've just put most of my savings into a home downpayment. :)
Again, I know nothing about Australia pricing, but in the Corolla price you're quoting the MSRP (i.e. retail amount listed on the window sticker)?
If so, you should be able to purchase the car new for significantly less than that (at least you can here in the States).

Regardless, given your situation in Australia, and the fact that you don't have liquid savings to pay cash for a new car, I would go with the $5K Focus.

Ecky

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2020, 06:13:15 AM »
I have three vehicles in my driveway. Between them they total around 860,000 miles / 1.4 million km. The last one was towed to my house from a friend who was abandoning it, as he was getting stranded by it frequently. With around an hour in the engine bay I had sanded and cleaned up the grounds, and it was running like new - at 275k miles / 440k km. I'd trust it to drive across the country.

I understand everyone has a different set of skills, different interests, and different amounts of time. If it were me, I'd at least fix the car you have before selling it, as it'll fetch a much higher price.

On my main car (a manual), I added aftermarket cruise control for ~$200. All three are manuals with cruise. I prefer manuals because in my case, I tend to own high mileage cars, and at high miles an automatic transmission is the single most likely item to send a car to a scapyard.

If you do need a new (or newish) car, Toyota's hybrids are all solid choices. They've proven at least as reliable as their conventional vehicles, have better resale value here, and get better fuel economy. If you're looking for something a little more fun and engaging to drive, Honda's newest generation of hybrids are both, without sacrificing the reliability.

I will say I'm a little skeptical of downsized turbo engines with CVTs. I'm sure they're good to 150k miles or more without issues, but skeptical they'd go twice that without major service.

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2020, 09:30:12 AM »
In the US, there was a period of time when the Ford Focus had very unreliable transmissions.  Worth researching that if you are considering buying a Focus.

Also, FWIW, if your water pump is really bad, that could be a factor in why you don't have much heat in the car.  I'd expect you'd see engine overheating problems too, if the pump was that bad. (ie impeller vanes totally shot)

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2020, 09:36:16 AM »
In the US, there was a period of time when the Ford Focus had very unreliable transmissions.  Worth researching that if you are considering buying a Focus.

This is the PowerShift transmission in the 2011-2016 Fiesta and 2012-2016 Focus.

The yearly defect ratio chart on Dashboard Light really highlights how bad these were:
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Ford_Focus.html

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2020, 11:17:49 PM »
In the US, there was a period of time when the Ford Focus had very unreliable transmissions.  Worth researching that if you are considering buying a Focus.

Also, FWIW, if your water pump is really bad, that could be a factor in why you don't have much heat in the car.  I'd expect you'd see engine overheating problems too, if the pump was that bad. (ie impeller vanes totally shot)

As mentioned by RWD, that's the later versions with the PowerShift transmission (and apparently the diesel ones weren't as bad). I'm looking at the second gen 2005-11 models (which differ from those sold in North America), which aside from some later TDCi versions, use a good old fashioned 4sp torque converter automatic and an engine that uses a timing chain.

Although yeah I'm avoiding any PowerShift Ford or the Holden Cruze. I don't like the styling of the first generation Mazda3, the Mitsubishi Lancers of that era don't come in hatchbacks, the Holden Astra is a bit iffy (and of course Holden is shutting up shop). The pre-i30 Hyundai Elantras (and similar age Kia Cerato) are a bit low-rent, Corolla doesn't have cruise control, Civics are expensive and mostly sedans, Nissan Tiida (Versa over there) is ugly, Holden Viva was a shitbox when new, and then there's the less common stuff like the Peugeot 307 or Suzuki SX4 that might be a bit risky, probably better off to stick with something common.

I did see a tidy Skoda Octavia for under $6k a while ago, but DSG...no thank you.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 11:19:39 PM by alsoknownasDean »

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2020, 11:57:18 PM »
As per the initial decision, I think I've come to a decision. I've gone off the idea of the big cheap sedan, especially the 6cyl ones with a timing belt. It's false economy buying a car like that because it's cheap only to have to replace the timing belt soon after purchase.

I'll also need to do my sums on whether a Prius is worthwhile. Something like an automatic Focus would probably do 9.5-10L/100km combined in my driving (compared to 7.5-8 in my current car), yet a Prius would be closer to 5-5.5L/100km.

I've seen a couple of cheap Ford Mondeos, although I'm a bit wary as some used PowerShift transmissions and most of them are diesels, which probably aren't suited to the driving I do. I like the look of the late 2000s Mondeo, but they're a bit big really.

I had a chat to a dealer today, and he said that anything small and automatic generally sells quite quickly.

Let's see what's available in June.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 12:06:38 AM by alsoknownasDean »

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2020, 08:04:23 AM »
And it's now June. The car's registration ends in about two and a half weeks, and I've gone to look around. The budget has been increased to about $6000-7000. That'll mean I'm more likely to get safety features like stability control and it's a bit less run-down.

I spoke to my mechanic, who warned me off the Focus. The ones I saw looked pretty ratty anyway.

Had a look at a 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer hatch, 194000km (121000mi), $6500. Even though it was one of the mid tier trim levels, I'm still a bit uneasy about paying that much for an 11 year old car that was under $30K new (let alone some of the stuff that's similar price for a car that was low 20s new).

I was looking at Hyundai i30's from 2008-2010, but they're mostly base models without cruise. There's a handful of higher trim versions, but mostly more expensive.

Corolla, hard to find with cruise even then and surprisingly expensive (2007 Corolla Conquest, $7000). Mazda3, ugly. Honda Civic, hatchback versions are expensive and the sedans are meh.

I need to build my Mustachian muscle and not get tempted by this:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2018-hyundai-i30-active-auto-my18/OAG-AD-18579185/?Cr=7

Of course that'd obliterate my savings, and a good Mustachian doesn't finance cars...

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2020, 08:36:39 AM »
And it's now June. The car's registration ends in about two and a half weeks, and I've gone to look around. The budget has been increased to about $6000-7000. That'll mean I'm more likely to get safety features like stability control and it's a bit less run-down.

I spoke to my mechanic, who warned me off the Focus. The ones I saw looked pretty ratty anyway.

Had a look at a 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer hatch, 194000km (121000mi), $6500. Even though it was one of the mid tier trim levels, I'm still a bit uneasy about paying that much for an 11 year old car that was under $30K new (let alone some of the stuff that's similar price for a car that was low 20s new).

I was looking at Hyundai i30's from 2008-2010, but they're mostly base models without cruise. There's a handful of higher trim versions, but mostly more expensive.

Corolla, hard to find with cruise even then and surprisingly expensive (2007 Corolla Conquest, $7000). Mazda3, ugly. Honda Civic, hatchback versions are expensive and the sedans are meh.

The Hyundai i30 should be slightly more reliable than the Mitsubishi Lancer, depending on year. There's a reason the Corolla and Civic are more expensive, they are more reliable.
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Mitsubishi_Lancer.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Hyundai_Elantra.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Corolla.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Honda_Civic.html

Personally I'd consider increasing your budget a little more and get something you're confident in. Mr Money Mustache's article on Top 10 Cars for Smart People recommended vehicles up to $12k USD (Honda Fit/Jazz). But that article was in 2012 so adjusted for inflation that is $13.4k USD. Adjusting for your currency that is $19.6k AUD, nearly 3 times your current budget.


I need to build my Mustachian muscle and not get tempted by this:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2018-hyundai-i30-active-auto-my18/OAG-AD-18579185/?Cr=7

Of course that'd obliterate my savings, and a good Mustachian doesn't finance cars...
A good Mustachian doesn't buy a more expensive vehicle because financing is available, but financing isn't inherently bad (especially with how interest rates have been lately).

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2020, 10:10:29 AM »
The Hyundai i30 should be slightly more reliable than the Mitsubishi Lancer, depending on year. There's a reason the Corolla and Civic are more expensive, they are more reliable.
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Mitsubishi_Lancer.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Hyundai_Elantra.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Corolla.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Honda_Civic.html

Personally I'd consider increasing your budget a little more and get something you're confident in. Mr Money Mustache's article on Top 10 Cars for Smart People recommended vehicles up to $12k USD (Honda Fit/Jazz). But that article was in 2012 so adjusted for inflation that is $13.4k USD. Adjusting for your currency that is $19.6k AUD, nearly 3 times your current budget.

That's mostly US market based, isn't it? I guess I can only put so much faith in it given the differences in cars between markets, but I guess the main items should be similar. There's a bit of anecdotal experience with the i30 as my mum has one, which has been pretty solid. The Civic doesn't quite have the same rep (and isn't as popular) here as in the US, and are far less popular.

I think part of it is just my looking at the used price at x years old and comparing it to the new price. They generally seem kinda poor value, but again anything smaller with an auto transmission is incredibly popular in the used market. The real used bargains are found in buying stuff that isn't popular, be it cars with manual transmissions, big front drive sedans or less popular brands like Suzuki or Peugeot.

I guess I either need to suck it up and pay the extra for the 'popular' brand that likely has some resale, or buy one of those unpopular cars and drive it into the ground.

I need to build my Mustachian muscle and not get tempted by this:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2018-hyundai-i30-active-auto-my18/OAG-AD-18579185/?Cr=7

Of course that'd obliterate my savings, and a good Mustachian doesn't finance cars...
A good Mustachian doesn't buy a more expensive vehicle because financing is available, but financing isn't inherently bad (especially with how interest rates have been lately).

Yes but I've just bought a house and don't really want to add any higher interest debt on top of the mortgage. I checked the bank websites for personal loan rates and they're about 9%. Not worth it. Seems all the cheap finance offers are for new cars. I have the cash available, but I've got a few things I'd like done to this place and would like to hold a bit (early winter is not the time to find out the heater is unsafe and needs replacing).

I guess I could stick some stop leak in the coolant tank (yeah I know), sort out the heater, and just drive the current car a while longer while saving to buy the nicer car with cash.

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2020, 11:35:23 AM »
The Hyundai i30 should be slightly more reliable than the Mitsubishi Lancer, depending on year. There's a reason the Corolla and Civic are more expensive, they are more reliable.
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Mitsubishi_Lancer.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Hyundai_Elantra.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Corolla.html
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Honda_Civic.html

Personally I'd consider increasing your budget a little more and get something you're confident in. Mr Money Mustache's article on Top 10 Cars for Smart People recommended vehicles up to $12k USD (Honda Fit/Jazz). But that article was in 2012 so adjusted for inflation that is $13.4k USD. Adjusting for your currency that is $19.6k AUD, nearly 3 times your current budget.

That's mostly US market based, isn't it? I guess I can only put so much faith in it given the differences in cars between markets, but I guess the main items should be similar. There's a bit of anecdotal experience with the i30 as my mum has one, which has been pretty solid. The Civic doesn't quite have the same rep (and isn't as popular) here as in the US, and are far less popular.

I think part of it is just my looking at the used price at x years old and comparing it to the new price. They generally seem kinda poor value, but again anything smaller with an auto transmission is incredibly popular in the used market. The real used bargains are found in buying stuff that isn't popular, be it cars with manual transmissions, big front drive sedans or less popular brands like Suzuki or Peugeot.

I guess I either need to suck it up and pay the extra for the 'popular' brand that likely has some resale, or buy one of those unpopular cars and drive it into the ground.
Yes, those reliability numbers are for the US market but it's also entirely for the powertrain which should be the same in any market that has the same engine/transmission options. The Hyundai i30 should be fine option. Presumably there are some problems with the 2010 model year Elantra (2007-2009 are solid), but I'm not positive how that translates to the Australian market i30.


Of course that'd obliterate my savings, and a good Mustachian doesn't finance cars...
A good Mustachian doesn't buy a more expensive vehicle because financing is available, but financing isn't inherently bad (especially with how interest rates have been lately).
Yes but I've just bought a house and don't really want to add any higher interest debt on top of the mortgage. I checked the bank websites for personal loan rates and they're about 9%. Not worth it. Seems all the cheap finance offers are for new cars. I have the cash available, but I've got a few things I'd like done to this place and would like to hold a bit (early winter is not the time to find out the heater is unsafe and needs replacing).
Oh yeah, do not finance at 9%. Earlier this year I financed a used car at 1.49%. I guess it's pretty different in Australia.


I guess I could stick some stop leak in the coolant tank (yeah I know), sort out the heater, and just drive the current car a while longer while saving to buy the nicer car with cash.
Yeah, using stop leak is pretty much condemning the car...

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2020, 03:08:21 AM »
Yes, those reliability numbers are for the US market but it's also entirely for the powertrain which should be the same in any market that has the same engine/transmission options. The Hyundai i30 should be fine option. Presumably there are some problems with the 2010 model year Elantra (2007-2009 are solid), but I'm not positive how that translates to the Australian market i30.

We get the Elantra as well, but from what I've noticed, there's no major reliability gotchas with the i30 lineup. I suspect the engine transmission options available here are similar to the US, maybe a shade smaller in some vehicles (the main engine in the i30 of that era is a 2.0L petrol, but there's also a 1.6L petrol and a 1.6L turbo diesel, most are the 2.0).

The big issue with it is that cruise is not offered on the base SX, so I've got to go for the SLX trim, and there's rather fewer of those for sale as most sold new were the base models.

Like this, but not in red:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2009-hyundai-i30-slx-auto-my09/SSE-AD-6684993/?Cr=1

Realistically, I'm trying to keep a somewhat open mind, mainly looking for something reasonably common that doesn't have any major reliability/quality gotchas. No Holden Cruze, no Powershift equipped Focus, no French cars (although I did own a Peugeot previously and loved driving it), probably no DSG equipped VW product (although I like the look of the Skoda Octavia), no Nissan CVTs. Preferably a petrol engine over a diesel, but I do a longish highway trip every few weeks so diesel might work. Timing chain would be ideal over belt but that's no guarantee of low maintenance costs or reliability (see: GM 3.6L V6).

Oh yeah, do not finance at 9%. Earlier this year I financed a used car at 1.49%. I guess it's pretty different in Australia.

I guess I could stick some stop leak in the coolant tank (yeah I know), sort out the heater, and just drive the current car a while longer while saving to buy the nicer car with cash.
Yeah, using stop leak is pretty much condemning the car...

I've had a bit more of a look around and seen rates for used car loans closer to 6.5-7% (anything under about 4.5-5% is new car finance only I'd imagine). I'd still prefer not to though.

However I've noticed that the coolant losses seem to happen most on short trips, and it doesn't lose much/any on a longer run. Since I moved a few weeks ago, I'm doing a lot fewer short trips as shops are now in comfortable walking distance. Especially as I'm still WFH for at least the next few weeks.

If I work out what's causing the heater to not work, I can pay the rego for another three months and keep looking/saving.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 03:25:44 AM by alsoknownasDean »

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2020, 02:50:51 AM »
One idea I had was to learn how to fix the car myself. It doesn't fix the lack of cruise control or auto transmission issue, but I now live in a place with a (small) garage. A set of axle stands, something to support the engine (engine mount has to come off to access the timing belt/water pump) and a timing belt/waterpump/tensioner kit from eBay (about $A200).

If it works, I've learnt a skill and increased my badassity by 1 point, and holding onto it for a while longer is no big deal. If not, I'm back at square one and just junk the car.

Although it won't happen until probably August if I do. Busy time of year with work.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 02:57:16 AM by alsoknownasDean »

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2020, 06:20:46 AM »
I would prefer a car with a cheaper and commonly used parts. The car repairing is what costs most.

Agreed, and I believe the vehicles with cheaper maintenance costs are probably those which sold in decent numbers. Toyota, Mazda and Hyundai are usually up the pointy end of the 'top sales' here, especially in that class of car.

But if I go to Carsales, set a budget of $7500, hatchback as the body style, year 2006 or later and cruise control and ESC, there's only 106 cars in my state (156 without ESC), and maybe 10-15 combined are of the above brands. Most of the vehicles meeting that criteria are either Ford/Holden or Euro brands. The Fords I've seen seem ragged out, Holden is exiting the market so parts availability down the track is a question mark, and the rule of thumb here is that Euro brand cars tend to have higher maintenance costs.

It's a bit of a weird kind of engineer's triangle (or pentagon in this case). Common vehicle from a well-regarded brand, cruise control, plenty available within budget at reasonable value for money, automatic transmission, compact enough to fit in my garage comfortably, pick any four.

Mitsubishi Lancer is close, but at just under 4.6m long for the hatch, I'd prefer a bit smaller (4.2-4.4m ideally). The longer and wider the car is, the less garage space there is. Subaru Impreza hatch from the mid 2000s could work, but they're a bit hard to find with two pedals.

The choice might be whether to buy something a bit larger than I'd like (plenty of choice if I get something closer to Camry size), buy something from a Euro brand or a Holden Astra/Ford Focus, or just to increase the budget (which would probably have to be to over $10K as a lot of those smaller cars didn't get cruise as standard until about 2013).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 06:32:36 AM by alsoknownasDean »

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2020, 02:49:57 AM »
OK so the decision I've got is more along the lines of 'how much to spend' rather than 'what to buy'. Given recent developments, this will most likely happen in September.

Effectively I've got six choices.

1) Keep the current car, put some money into DIY maintenance and keep a little while longer. Revisit in 6-12 months.

2) Buy a $3000-4000 2004 Camry or similar. Easy enough to buy with cash and get with cruise, but a bit larger than I'd really like. Drive a year or two and then get something newer and smaller once I've saved more cash.

3) Buy a hatchback from around 2007-10 for $6-7K. Probably about 200,000km. Subtract a couple of grand if manual transmission, add a bit if a Toyota. Probably good for 4 or 5 years, by then i'd probably want something new anyway.

4) Buy something from 2013-15 (including ex-fleet vehicles) for about $11-12K.

5) Buy a 2-3 year old used current generation Hyundai i30 for $17K.

6) Buy the new version of the above for about $25K.

Now 1-3 can easily be done with cash. 4 I could do with cash but I'd get my e-fund to near the minimum amount I'm comfortable with. 5 I'd either have to borrow some or burn through more of the e-fund than I'd like, and 6 I'd almost certainly need a loan.

I've been mostly focusing on option 3 in this thread, but maybe one of the others makes more sense.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 02:57:36 AM by alsoknownasDean »

Dave1442397

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2020, 04:58:12 AM »
I'd go with #2, or if you stick to Toyota, #3.

Anything else, make sure you check the relevant forums. There are a lot of annoyed Focus owners out there stuck with exploding transmissions, and Nissan automatics are not known for reliability in recent years.

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2020, 07:58:16 AM »
I made an attempt to estimate the costs of each option with the following assumptions:
- 1% depreciation per month
- quadratic regression extrapolation of maintenance costs from Consumer Reports, converted to AUD
- 4.2% registration tax
- financing at 7% for 48 months any amount over $12k
- vehicle kept until 18 years old
- high end of budget / year for each option
- ignoring fuel and insurance costs, adjust as needed

#1: $1470/year (I'm not sure you mentioned what vehicle you have now, I estimated a 20-year old car)
#2: $1550/year
#3: $1450/year
#4: $1470/year
#5: $1680/year
#6: $1930/year

With the exception of #6 I'd say these are all fine options. I'd probably go with #4 or #5 personally. But #3 is quite attractive as well as potentially the lowest cost option.

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2020, 08:03:00 AM »
Scratch-work table for maintenance/repair costs attached. I used MyCurveFit for the quadratic regression.

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2020, 08:10:43 AM »
OK so the decision I've got is more along the lines of 'how much to spend' rather than 'what to buy'. Given recent developments, this will most likely happen in September.
Effectively I've got six choices.
You started this thread with TWO options, now over 3 months later you are up to SIX choices, and you don't even plan to take action until September.

I would purchase the newest car with the fewest miles that will get you 5-10 years worth of trouble-free use.

If that means keeping your existing car for xx months/years and aggressively saving for a replacement, then do that.
If you have the cash to buy a car that will last that long, then pull the trigger now.

I'd eliminate all of the short-term options that would have you getting rid of the newer car within the next 5 years.
That means you would have to start this process all over again in a few years, expending all of this thought/energy yet again.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2020, 09:27:18 AM »
I made an attempt to estimate the costs of each option with the following assumptions:
- 1% depreciation per month
- quadratic regression extrapolation of maintenance costs from Consumer Reports, converted to AUD
- 4.2% registration tax
- financing at 7% for 48 months any amount over $12k
- vehicle kept until 18 years old
- high end of budget / year for each option
- ignoring fuel and insurance costs, adjust as needed

#1: $1470/year (I'm not sure you mentioned what vehicle you have now, I estimated a 20-year old car)
#2: $1550/year
#3: $1450/year
#4: $1470/year
#5: $1680/year
#6: $1930/year

With the exception of #6 I'd say these are all fine options. I'd probably go with #4 or #5 personally. But #3 is quite attractive as well as potentially the lowest cost option.

Thanks for that, that helps. Registration here is a flat rate rather than based on value, so that variable can be removed, but the rest of it seems sound. Honestly it's probably not worth doing 1 or 2 based on that model as I wouldn't save anything, and I'm reluctant to do 6, so the real options are 3, 4, 5.

Much of that is more to do with the state of the used market at the moment and whether I'm open to financing all or part of it.

Looking mostly at Japanese or Korean brands. Hyundai and Kia in particular seem to strongly feature for value for money. I like the third gen Mazda3, and the current model Corolla hatch, but they're pricey.

You started this thread with TWO options, now over 3 months later you are up to SIX choices, and you don't even plan to take action until September.

I would purchase the newest car with the fewest miles that will get you 5-10 years worth of trouble-free use.

If that means keeping your existing car for xx months/years and aggressively saving for a replacement, then do that.
If you have the cash to buy a car that will last that long, then pull the trigger now.

I'd eliminate all of the short-term options that would have you getting rid of the newer car within the next 5 years.
That means you would have to start this process all over again in a few years, expending all of this thought/energy yet again.

Yeah true, but circumstances have changed. The used market has been affected by COVID-related demand and supply of cheaper smaller vehicles has dried up a bit, I've moved house and a larger car isn't ideal in the new residence (and my finances are a bit more settled because of the move), and I'm on lockdown until well into August so there's no point buying a car now anyway. I'd be expecting a minimum of 4 years from option 3, and of course options 4-5 would be good for longer.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 09:45:42 AM by alsoknownasDean »

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2020, 10:01:00 AM »
Yeah true, but circumstances have changed. The used market has been affected by COVID-related demand and supply of cheaper smaller vehicles has dried up a bit, I've moved house and a larger car isn't ideal in the new residence (and my finances are a bit more settled because of the move), and I'm on lockdown until well into August so there's no point buying a car now anyway. I'd be expecting a minimum of 4 years from option 3, and of course options 4-5 would be good for longer.
I'm not sure what your current financial situation is, but I would go with option #5 or #6 and be done with it.

That should easily give you 10+ years of relatively trouble-free driving before you have to repeat this saga.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 10:32:49 AM by researcher1 »

RWD

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2020, 10:14:22 AM »
Registration here is a flat rate rather than based on value, so that variable can be removed, but the rest of it seems sound.

Updated with 4.2% registration tax assumption removed:

#1: $1470/year
#2: $1470/year
#3: $1410/year
#4: $1430/year
#5: $1630/year
#6: $1870/year

researcher1

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Re: Cheaper car or more expensive?
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2020, 10:34:39 AM »
Updated with 4.2% registration tax assumption removed:

#1: $1470/year
#2: $1470/year
#3: $1410/year
#4: $1430/year
#5: $1630/year
#6: $1870/year
What is it if you remove the financing assumption?