Author Topic: Charging for home-made almond butter  (Read 11521 times)

ENL

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Charging for home-made almond butter
« on: February 16, 2015, 04:18:13 PM »
I have been making almond butter for my own family for awhile now, since it is cheaper and I know exactly what is going into it.  Now, suddenly, the rest of the world has discovered that I do this.  Some family and acquaintances from my husband's workplace have been requesting that I make them some.  So far I have just done it once and given it to them as gifts, but now I'm getting repeat requests. 

It seems like I might have a very small side business starting.  At the very least I need to start recuperating my costs because almonds ain't cheap.  Any ideas on what I should charge for them?  The cost of the almonds (1 lb) is about $5.33 per jar.  The jars themselves cost some but I'm not sure what since I've been using mason jars that I already owned so far and people have generally been good about returning them to be when they are done.  Not sure how to account for my time or the wear and tear on my food processor.  Any thoughts?  I hate to charge too much because it literally is just putting almonds in a food processor until they are almond butter, but people seem to think there is witchcraft involved or something.

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ENL

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 05:09:50 PM »
The issue with charging the "going rate" for almond butter is that prices vary wildly.  I see that amazon link has it at $10.99 for a 16oz jar, but I have also seen the same size go for $7.99 at some places around here or even smaller containers at fancy pants food stores to for for as high as ~$15.

Plus, if my costs exceed what they can get it at elsewhere I'd still prefer to charge what it costs me instead of trying to price match.  You can't make a profit with more volume if you are making each one at a loss.

JLee

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 07:33:47 AM »
I would factor in the cost of the jars because there is no guarantee that you will get them back. If the jars cost $1, maybe offer a $0.50 credit towards the next purchase when the jar is returned?

getgoing

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 07:56:35 AM »
I would figure something like cost of almonds + some amount for the time you spend + a dollar jar deposit. They would only pay the jar deposit the first time, given that they return a jar each time they pick up a new one.

mskyle

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2015, 08:35:33 AM »
What are you charging your friends and family now? Are you looking to expand the people you sell to beyond just friends and family? Because at some point you're going to run into food safety regulations.

We only pay $8 per 16 oz of almond butter (plain almonds straight from the grinder at Whole Foods). If ingredients cost you $5.66, it would be hard to beat that price. But if you don't have a Whole Foods in the area, you wouldn't have the same kind of price competition.

Kaydedid

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2015, 12:12:36 PM »
You might want to check into your state regulations for this kind of thing.  I know in my state (Wisconsin), selling this would be illegal, and most states have similar requirements for processed food.  You can give away all that you want, but charge a penny and all of a sudden you need metal detectors, quality sampling, and other obscenely expensive things.  It's a crooked system, made by the big companies to keep small producers out of the game.

If you want to buck the system, just be aware of what the laws are.  Usually if they catch you, the first few times they just confiscate your product.  However, there are people who've gone to jail over repeatedly ignoring these regulations.  Sometimes you can get away with loopholes (ie sell another legal product at an artificially high price to a customer then 'give away' the almond butter).

Scandium

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 12:41:57 PM »
What Keydedid said. Before deciding on price of jars look into requirements for selling food products. From my limited knowledge I'd guess there are requirements for 'commercial kitchen' equipment, hygiene and sanitation, storage, licensing etc etc etc. In short; I probably wouldn't bother. But let me know how it goes if you do.

I remember looking into requirements for small breweries, and there are inspections and requirements for everything from the tank welds to the slope of the floor. No thanks!

mrsggrowsveg

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2015, 02:26:39 PM »
We used to sell almond and other homemade nut butters at our farmer's market booth.  We sourced our nuts in bulk, mostly from nuts.com.  We also purchased our jars in bulk and gave a discount on the next jar if they brought the jar back to us.  The price charged would depend on how much you get your nuts for.  I think you definitely need to account for wear and tear on your food processor.  We had a large chocolate making machine that we used because our food processors wouldn't hold up.   

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2015, 02:31:13 PM »
Yup, check into the state and local regulations. My nephew started a business very similarly, making almond milk. It has taken off for him, but he had to get commercial facilities.

He even had some idiot inspectors threaten to shut him,down immediately because he was selling unpasteurized "milk." It took some legal help to make the point that almonds are not cows.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 02:49:04 PM »
I make nut butters for our family and at a home equipment level and fair valuation of my time, I'd probably have to charge at least $10/pint plus a $1 deposit on the jar.

And as other posters have mentioned, the dumb food laws in many places may mean this is highly illegal.

Goldielocks

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 03:07:34 PM »
You might want to check into your state regulations for this kind of thing.  I know in my state (Wisconsin), selling this would be illegal, and most states have similar requirements for processed food.  You can give away all that you want, but charge a penny and all of a sudden you need metal detectors, quality sampling, and other obscenely expensive things.  It's a crooked system, made by the big companies to keep small producers out of the game.

If you want to buck the system, just be aware of what the laws are.  Usually if they catch you, the first few times they just confiscate your product.  However, there are people who've gone to jail over repeatedly ignoring these regulations.  Sometimes you can get away with loopholes (ie sell another legal product at an artificially high price to a customer then 'give away' the almond butter).
+100

Almond butter can carry pathogens, (just like peanut butter), including anything that is on the surface of the nuts before your process.... and if you are selling it, you could get sued.  People don't tend to sue over gifts...  So you need to ensure you are following the processes correctly, and possibly borrow the use of a commercial kitchen if needed.      anyway, this is quite a bit different from homemade cakes and cookies (except for custard / cream cakes, of course).

Salmonella and ecoli are two that can be carried in nut butters, and the source of contamination could be on your raw product already, although usually may be related to normal human handling (especially salmonella, specific hygiene protocols are needed to reduce this, and the commercial producers need to test batches before sale).

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/08/cdc-four-salmonella-cases-linked-to-recalled-nut-butters/#.VOO8MvnF-VE


Instead, maybe just "barter" -- set up a list of items that you would like in exchange?  Sounds like it is mainly good friends and family that are partaking?   
The cost to you should be in the neighborhood of $7 per jar, including the glass and washup, maybe more if you include processor wear and tear and your time to source materials.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 03:11:52 PM by goldielocks »

frugaldrummer

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 03:33:36 PM »
Reminds me of an episode of Friends where Monica made candy for the neighbors to try to get to know them, and next thing you know they were lining up at her door at all hours to get more.

Scandium

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2015, 10:46:24 AM »
I make nut butters for our family and at a home equipment level and fair valuation of my time, I'd probably have to charge at least $10/pint plus a $1 deposit on the jar.

And as other posters have mentioned, the dumb food laws in many places may mean this is highly illegal.

While I'm no fan of excessive laws, being confident that food I purchase won't kill me painfully, without having to run my own bacteria scan of everything I buy, is a nice feature.

Lis

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2015, 03:21:26 PM »
I'm in the same-ish boat here. I make homemade fudge (and have just started making truffles) and the reactions have been great. I'm sure I'd be able to sell $100 worth month, but the laws in my state are both confusing and strict. It's something that's been on the back of my mind for months, but I have no idea where to start.

If anyone has any experience selling homemade chocolate goods in New York, please please please pm me!

Indio

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2015, 03:28:27 PM »
You should check with your insurance company to find out if you are covered in the event someone gets sick.

ENL

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2015, 04:38:47 PM »
Regarding the legality of doing this and the possibility of a lawsuit...  I'm not really worried about that at this point since the majority of people asking me for this are family.  If it takes off much more I will certainly take that aspect more seriously, though.

I did look into the laws here in Michigan out of curiosity, and they are pretty friendly towards this sort of thing.  Mostly I would just need to have a label with a warning, the address of the home kitchen, and list the ingredients.  More on Michigan's cottage food law here: http://www.michigan.gov/mdard/0,4610,7-125-50772_45851-240577--,00.html

Almond butter might require some additional testing, but it doesn't seem like it would be anything overly cumbersome.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 04:40:24 PM by Evil Number Lady »

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 04:45:30 PM »
I'm in the same-ish boat here. I make homemade fudge (and have just started making truffles) and the reactions have been great. I'm sure I'd be able to sell $100 worth month, but the laws in my state are both confusing and strict. It's something that's been on the back of my mind for months, but I have no idea where to start.

If anyone has any experience selling homemade chocolate goods in New York, please please please pm me!

Hey Lis - when they reopen for the season you could try approaching those at your local farmer's markets who are selling those types of goods what their experience has been.  Of course if they would be a direct competitor they might not want to spill all the beans, but you could broach the subject in a wide 'home production of food goods' kind of way.

Goldielocks

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2015, 06:30:09 PM »
Regarding the legality of doing this and the possibility of a lawsuit...  I'm not really worried about that at this point since the majority of people asking me for this are family.  If it takes off much more I will certainly take that aspect more seriously, though.

I did look into the laws here in Michigan out of curiosity, and they are pretty friendly towards this sort of thing.  Mostly I would just need to have a label with a warning, the address of the home kitchen, and list the ingredients.  More on Michigan's cottage food law here: http://www.michigan.gov/mdard/0,4610,7-125-50772_45851-240577--,00.html

Almond butter might require some additional testing, but it doesn't seem like it would be anything overly cumbersome.
I believe that nut butters may be classed as potentially hazardous foods, especially given the recalls for salmonella in recent years. You should contact the number on the Michigan page to see what they say.

ENL

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 08:14:17 PM »
I believe that nut butters may be classed as potentially hazardous foods, especially given the recalls for salmonella in recent years. You should contact the number on the Michigan page to see what they say.

Nut butters are addressed directly on the page.  It says:

Can I make peanut butter, almond butter and other nut butters in my home kitchen and sell them as a Cottage Food business? 

Possibly.  Whether your particular nut butter is allowed under the Cottage Food Law would depend on the pH and water activity as defined in the 2009 Michigan Modified Food Code.  You will need to find a food laboratory that can analyze your type of product to determine if it is allowable.

Goldielocks

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2015, 10:57:08 PM »
I believe that nut butters may be classed as potentially hazardous foods, especially given the recalls for salmonella in recent years. You should contact the number on the Michigan page to see what they say.

Nut butters are addressed directly on the page.  It says:

Can I make peanut butter, almond butter and other nut butters in my home kitchen and sell them as a Cottage Food business? 

Possibly.  Whether your particular nut butter is allowed under the Cottage Food Law would depend on the pH and water activity as defined in the 2009 Michigan Modified Food Code.  You will need to find a food laboratory that can analyze your type of product to determine if it is allowable.


Yep...  Also known as.. If you use a lot of sugar and \or salt, or use unusually dry nuts.... And you buy the little bench top unit to test each batch as you make it.  ( I used to make fruit leather for sale).   It seems odd to think of but butter this way, but unless you add quite a bit of salt or sugar, it may not grow bacteria, but just maintain it.

Also the prossessor is notoriously hard to clean all the cracks, nooks and crannies to 100% confidence, especially when not made in small batches like you are now..

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2015, 08:53:35 AM »
Stupid question, I know... but why not just keep doing it for free, but make the friends/family provide you with the jars and nuts themselves? ...or if they have food processors themselves, teach them how to make it?

Lis

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 10:04:13 AM »
There's something very satisfying of making a good product and having the people around you enjoy it. I love making goodies for people to enjoy and while I do love teaching, I'd be bummed if I taught the people around me how to make fudge or truffles or the other goodies I make. But it does involve time and effort and materials, and if I can be compensated for that, that would be wonderful!

ENL

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 10:32:49 AM »
Stupid question, I know... but why not just keep doing it for free, but make the friends/family provide you with the jars and nuts themselves? ...or if they have food processors themselves, teach them how to make it?

I kind of wonder the same thing myself.  I keep mentioning that it is very easy to make and how a food processor is worth the investment (I make baby food, hummus and lots of other stuff as well) but everyone has seemed very apprehensive about doing it themselves.  I do have one family member buying me almonds right now but the rest don't know where to buy them cheaply and don't want to mess with the hassle of bringing them to me.  They are asking me to give them a dollar amount they can pay instead.

arebelspy

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 10:34:38 AM »
So give them an option.

Say "Bring me _____ or you can give me $__ to cover the cost of me acquiring it myself."

That gives them either option and shows you're not looking to make a big profit, but not lose money.  :)
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James

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2015, 05:51:57 AM »
We make peanut butter in our food processor and get the same reaction, people try the peanut butter and love it, then they ask for some, then they want more. I want to say "Buy the fucking peanuts at the fucking co-op and throw them in the fucking food processor, it's not rocket science you moron..."

But then I remember how long it took me to try it, how we burned out our first cheap food processor in a year, how I got different peanuts once and it didn't turn out as well, etc. So some people just aren't interested in spending the time/money figuring these things out, but still enjoy it.

I wouldn't make it to sell. Pretty soon it just becomes work, and it isn't special to them anymore. You burn out your food processor and spend a big chunk of money on a nice heavy duty one, but then their interest dies because it's expensive.

I would just continue to give them small amounts and enjoy the compliments. If they love it enough you can show them how to make it for themselves. But that is just me, nothing wrong with creating a little business if that is what you want to do. Certainly let us know how it goes.

Goldielocks

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2015, 08:20:20 PM »
We make peanut butter in our food processor and get the same reaction, people try the peanut butter and love it, then they ask for some, then they want more. I want to say "Buy the fucking peanuts at the fucking co-op and throw them in the fucking food processor, it's not rocket science you moron..."

But then I remember how long it took me to try it, how we burned out our first cheap food processor in a year, how I got different peanuts once and it didn't turn out as well, etc. So some people just aren't interested in spending the time/money figuring these things out, but still enjoy it.

I wouldn't make it to sell. Pretty soon it just becomes work, and it isn't special to them anymore. You burn out your food processor and spend a big chunk of money on a nice heavy duty one, but then their interest dies because it's expensive.

I would just continue to give them small amounts and enjoy the compliments. If they love it enough you can show them how to make it for themselves. But that is just me, nothing wrong with creating a little business if that is what you want to do. Certainly let us know how it goes.

+1 Great suggestion!

ENL

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2015, 08:40:38 PM »
I would just continue to give them small amounts and enjoy the compliments.

I would love to just give them away for free, but it is getting unsustainable.  My four person family is living on a teacher's salary and I'm just not able to afford multiple $5 gifts to our extended family every week.  My only other option is just to tell people "no" when they as for some, which I would prefer not to do.

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2015, 12:31:16 AM »
I interpreted the suggestion as small amounts once or twice a year.  Not a week.

arebelspy

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2015, 07:40:46 AM »
I interpreted the suggestion as small amounts once or twice a year.  Not a week.

This. Homemade Christmas gifts.

Or ask them to cover the cost of ingredients or bring the ingredients.
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James

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Re: Charging for home-made almond butter
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2015, 11:12:42 AM »
I would just continue to give them small amounts and enjoy the compliments.

I would love to just give them away for free, but it is getting unsustainable.  My four person family is living on a teacher's salary and I'm just not able to afford multiple $5 gifts to our extended family every week.  My only other option is just to tell people "no" when they as for some, which I would prefer not to do.

First, I meant only occasionally, which could mean anything from once a month to once a year, certainly not once a week. But the number would obviously be based on your budget and your ability to provide the gift, you shouldn't be doing things that hurt you financially. It can also take the place of gifts you might buy otherwise, such as a Mother's Day gift, etc. Obviously it shouldn't be more than you can afford.

Second, sometime "no" is the best option for both you and for them. Getting into financial situations with family and friends is definitely risky. Even though it seems like such a minor little thing at the time, it is easy to imagine various ways it could end up poorly. Hurt feeling on either side or both and damaged relationships. "No" is a word I think many people don't use enough.

So making an occasional gift is a way to say an occasional "yes", without it becoming a large financial burden, but my recommendation in general is simply to say "no".

But maybe you want a home business and have done the research and know it won't damage relationships. In that case maybe a home business is right for you. I can't know what is right for you and there are some people out there that can make it work. I didn't see a reason to believe that in what you have posted here, but that could be the case and if so then I hope it works well for you.