Author Topic: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?  (Read 3013 times)

rothwem

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Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« on: March 28, 2019, 09:53:40 AM »
So this might seem weird, but I’ve never really budgeted my money.  I’ve always had a decent amount coming in since college, and once I got started with MMM, I realized a lot of the crap that I was spending money on was stuff that I didn’t even really want and my taste for expensive things has really dropped.  My wife is similar, though she never really had expensive taste outside of food stuff.  For the last couple years, we’ve been able to maintain a ~40-50% savings rate by just not buying crap we don’t need or really want.  This seems to be the way that MMM did his thing, though he has very inexpensive taste, a bit more tolerance for discomfort and he had a bit higher income before he retired than we do. 

With that said, I’d really like to optimize and get to a consistent 50+% savings rate and I think we’ll need a budget to do it.  So with that in mind, I’d like to use this thread to talk about your budgeting strategies.  Do you use the cash envelope method a la Dave Ramsey? Different credit cards for different purposes? A whole shit load of bank accounts for different types of expenses?  I’m really interested in the execution, so give me what you’ve got. 

TheHardenedInvestor

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 10:02:25 AM »
I don’t mean to sound overly simplistic but the easiest form of a budget is savings rate times net income, spend the rest. If you want a 50% savings rate, compute how much money you have left over to spend, that’s your budget. I don’t know how to do it any other way.

Sugaree

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 10:14:11 AM »
Since you're familiar with DR, I'd say that I use something similar to his every dollar system.  I more or less budget everything (I tend to estimate my paychecks $10-$15 less than what they actually are so that leaves me a tiny bit of breathing room).  Anything that doesn't get budgeted goes into savings automatically in my spreadsheet.  As far as execution goes, I use that spreadsheet to create a forecasted checking register for my working account, i.e. the account that paychecks go into and bills are paid out of.  As each transaction occurs, I check it off and balance my bank account against what the spreadsheet says I should have.  I usually have between 6 and 18 months worth of transactions forecasted out and I can see how making a transaction today will affect my account balance way into the future.  Like if I  have an extra high power bill this month, I might go negative in June, so I need to make adjustments by then.  But I like keeping my no-interest checking account as close to zero as possible so that any "extra" money is in an interest-generating account.  I have several different sub accounts for various things (vacation, long term bills...AKA a sinking fund in the DR world, emergency fund, savings, CC payments, personal spending, etc).  It's probably more complicated than most people want to get into, but it's been something that I've been tweaking for more than 10 years now.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 10:20:46 AM »
I think a lot of it depends on how you're wired and how much you want to be frugal/FIRE. If you are a huge numbers geek and really driven to FIRE, then tracking all expenses would probably be great. We don't track all expenses, but it's on the list of things to do eventually to further optimize. I think it's kind of similar to food. You have to know yourself. If I don't track my food, I intake very high amounts of it without thinking. I may have broken the habit with my latest changes, but I'm not sure and won't know until I stop tracking for a bit after I get where I want to be and see what happens. On the other hand, I understand myself financially and know I don't have the same proclivities financially that I do with food. We maybe shop Amazon a time or two a month for things needed if that. We grocery shop cheaply and rarely end up at box stores like Target/Walmart. In summary, we just don't buy a whole lot of stuff regularly except gas, food, and household supplies. So I've spent my time attacking monthly bills that I do tend to not think about. We've reduced our phone bill, cut cable, etc. to reduce those. I have automated savings stuff for 401k/general savings and the like so I don't have to think about it. I know if I go on autopilot, I won't waste money just buying stuff on whims, so if the things I don't actually pay cash/put a credit card into a machine/click a button to purchase go down, that's the biggest bang for my buck. Now that those are improved, I'm going to look at a budget overall to try to reduce further, but that's just because I want to increase savings even more, not that I think there's tons and tons to trim. YMMV.

Velexia

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2019, 10:20:58 AM »
And a question only you and your wife can answer is: is the 50%+ savings worth the budgeting?

I've been a big Dave Ramsey gal for many years. My business put me in debt again (and my poor business choices) and then I worked my way out using the FIRE method. Having done both here is what I can say:

Budgeting Pros: When you stick with it, it's guaranteed. Helps with limiting 'luxury' spending. Gets you thinking creatively about how to stretch your dollar. Fastest way to reach a financial goal. Great for people learning how to say 'No' to themselves, family, etc.

Budgeting Cons: Have to stick with it, requires discipline and can wear you out. You can stretch too thin and feel so in-lack that when you reach your goal, like with dieting, you end up bouncing out of control with your spending. There never seems an end to it where you can safely stop. You endure budgeting.

Your Money or Your Life Theory Pros: Relatively painless, easier in teaching you how to 'buy healthy' with your money and teaches you how to feel satisfied with enough, not really a point where you feel in-lack, feels like something I could do forever without much effort. No 'enduring' required.

Your Money or Your Life Theory Cons: Still requires some paperwork for tracking your spending, not going to be as fast or as strict as budgeting so savings might not be exact or reach each month's goal. You could probably save more.


Out of the two, budgeting made me feel like I was kicking butt the most but I was ALWAYS thinking money. Your Money or Your Life I only think of 'is this worth my life energy?' and never feel deprived. I know I would be faster at reaching my money goals with budgeting, but I'm happier with Enoughing.

You choose what fits you, both will get you where you want to go, just different ways!

Zikoris

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 10:22:10 AM »
I just use Mint to track, and the "compare to this time last year" feature to see if I'm keeping in line with norms. The feature also works in individual categories, so I can see how my food or travel spending compares to the previous year as well. The standards were all set many years ago, so it's really just a matter of staying within the boundaries of our historical spending norms. If you don't have historical spending records to compare to, you could definitely just pick some number you think is roughly correct (say, the number that allows for your desired savings rate), and use that until you have proper data.

rubybeth

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 10:31:42 AM »
I've used Mint for 10+ years and it's good for tracking and net worth stuff, less helpful for budgeting. I started using You Need a Budget (YNAB) and didn't really like it at first, but I restarted my trial about a month ago and now things are clicking better. I also keep my own spreadsheets for projecting the future. You can make budgeting as simple or as complicated (detailed) as you like. I prefer detailed to some extent, because that helped me understand better when we could afford larger purchases like vehicles and a house, but that's me. YNAB is helping me understand the big lump that is credit card spending--we put almost everything on credit cards from groceries to wants, and we always pay the bill in full when it's due, but tracking has helped me see all of the categories we spend on with credit cards. I used this link to get 3 months free: https://www.youneedabudget.com/landing/young-house-love/

We do a lot of our savings pre-tax so that money just never shows up in the budget. For me, that's a good thing, but I do have to remind myself we are saving" even if we aren't saving much of our take-home pay each month.

seemsright

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 07:35:41 PM »
We use a yellow legal pad and post it notes.

But we are at the point where we look at numbers from a annual point of view. So If I spend $400 on food one month and the other $600 then the next $200 It all averages out.

I do not stress over when the kid needs new shoes. Our clothing budget may be sky high one month and then next to nothing for the next.

What is your goal for your saving rate? It really is not hard to know to hit that number you need to decrease your spending x amount. Then work backwards. Maybe that is calling your internet, cell phone people, insurance etc to get a lower rate by changing companies or what not. Maybe that is decreasing your food costs, or your fun costs. Only you and your wife are going to be able to figure out what is important or what is easy to give up.

My advice is make small steps to get the to the saving rate you want. You do not want to feel like you cannot have what you want. Maybe that is just finding a cheaper wine you both enjoy than the one you buy on the regular. Or researching how to use that random ingredient in your pantry that you have not gotten to. Maybe that is making your own pizza at home instead of going out. Maybe that is paying a board game instead of going to the movie.

Our savings rate keeps going up not because we are not going without but rather we are enjoying using what we have, and enjoying time together. That might be enjoying a glass of the cheap $3 wine I found I love (there were many bottles that were crap during that phase of finding the cheap wine I enjoyed) while playing cards, or putting together the jigsaw puzzle. We have many weekends where we finish the project that we just have not finished.

This is a topic I am a huge nerd about. I think a 50% savings rate is not hard. It is about priorities and intent. Being a introvert is a plus as I rather be home in my soft clothes than out any day. 

Freedomin5

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2019, 02:48:10 AM »
We use the "pay yourself first" method. A set amount is transferred out of our account and into investments the day after salary is deposited. We then spend the rest. We transfer out money for all large fixed expenses (rent, tuition), and then we spend the rest on the more variable expenses.

This works for us because we hate tracking every individual expense. Like, do I really want to spend a minute inputting the fact that I spent $0.30 on breakfast this morning? Or $0.90 on subway fare. Not really.

Metalcat

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2019, 03:54:36 AM »
There's a difference between tracking and budgeting.

What are you actually trying to do?
Are you trying to see where the money is going in order to minimize wasteful spending or are you trying to set predictable target numbers?

If you aren't sure exactly where your money is going, then start with just tracking first. Decide from there how you may want to modify spending.

bryangreene

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 04:47:30 AM »
what are the crucial strategies when preparing a budget?

daffodil2001

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 04:58:42 AM »
My husband and I do a combination. We have a monthly budget in a spreadsheet plus a paper ledger where we track sinking funds. We also have a dry erase board on the fridge where we track grocery expenses. We pay for groceries with a credit card, but it’s our most variable category so watching it closely helps keep us on track and lets us know if it’s okay to buy a treat without going over budget for the month.

My husband isn’t a Mustachian so we each get a cash allowance monthly to spend however we want with no need to track it. That way we don’t have to check with each other first for small purchases, my husband gets some guilt-free spending, and since I don’t normally spend much of mine I can say yes to impromptu things that come up like seeing a friend’s play without messing up our budget.

Bee763

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2019, 05:25:21 AM »
We use a modified envelope system:

Virtual envelopes:
Investing (I have a direct debit to send this straight to my Stocks and Shares ISA at the beginning of each month)
House (Used to be the mortgage payment, anything still in this at the end of the month goes into the "House sinking fund")
Bills (these are all on direct debit)
Contribution to Car Fund
Contribution to Christmas/gifts/holidays fund

Actual, physical envelopes:
Fuel (filled monthly, anything left in here at the end of the month goes to the Car fund)
Food (Filled weekly anything left in here at the end of the week goes to the House fund)
Pocket money, Mine (filled weekly, anything left in here at the end of the week goes to my personal spending fund)
Pocket money, Hers (filled weekly, anything left in here at the end of the week goes to her personal spending fund)

Wherever possible we use a cashback credit card for day-to-day spending, so the bills (we only track to the level of £5) in each of the physical envelopes often bounce in and out of the "Cash Stash" envelope and are used more like tokens than actual money.

We have found that this system works to help us feel like we each have enough discretionary spending (which includes all clothing, work lunches, entertainment etc) and keeps my less-mustachian wife from going totally overboard. Tracking to the smallest available note means no footering around with small change on a day-to-day basis too. We are expecting a baby towards the end of the year and they will probably get their own envelope upon arrival.

Goldy

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2019, 06:09:25 AM »
For us Mint is the easiest solution and it’s even free which was icing on the cake.  It does a good job at tracking transactions and allows you to set up a budget with as many categories as you want.  Now that ours is set up I basically use it to look at the total spending for the current month to see if I am on track which takes seconds and can be done anywhere with the app.

rothwem

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2019, 06:52:54 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. 

There's a difference between tracking and budgeting.

What are you actually trying to do?
Are you trying to see where the money is going in order to minimize wasteful spending or are you trying to set predictable target numbers?

If you aren't sure exactly where your money is going, then start with just tracking first. Decide from there how you may want to modify spending.

I suspect that I probably ought to update with a "current state" system.  We're not totally budgetless I guess, I put a whole bunch of pretax money away, and then direct deposit another $1000/month into a random "savings" account.  I aim to keep the savings account at $10,000, anything over that goes to the wife's student loans or if we have a large expense coming up I'll let it float up a bit.  What is left is dumped into a joint account to pay mortgage/utilities/misc expenses. 

I can pick out where the money is going ("failure analysis") but I want to be proactive since the money seems to go in all different directions.  My main goal is to try to get the remaining amount that is dumped into the joint account allocated so that it isn't wasted.  Previously, when I have tried to ratchet up the amount going into the savings account, I just end up transferring the extra back at the end of the month when its time to pay the credit card bill, and I think that's because the money in the general fund doesn't have a purpose. 

Lady SA

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2019, 09:11:40 AM »
I don't really do a monthly budget. Instead, I keep track of our annual expenses for all categories in a spreadsheet (I pull the totals from Mint at the end of each year, and then I update the inflation rates for all the previous years to convert all the totals into today's dollars).

Then I basically average each category that makes sense (some, like rent, are "fixed" by external factors and I do not do the average function there). This gives me our natural amount of spending for each category that takes into account those random unknowns or large, infrequent purchases.

If any category total gives me pause, then DH and I might decide to keep a closer eye on those types of purchases in the coming year. But we don't restrict that category by setting a strict budget.

Then, using these historical numbers, I can take what I know we will likely spend (based on our historical patterns) in a year, and also our expected tax bill (using MDMs case study spreadsheet), and subtract those outflows from our annual salaries to get our surplus, which I then can allocate to fill up our pre-tax, post tax, and other savings vehicles. Now that I know how much goes into each savings vehicle, I then set up the monthly autodrafts from our bank account.

So, from our salaries, taxes are taken out before the paychecks hit our account. As soon as our paychecks come in, the savings autodrafts pull a bunch out. What is leftover after everything is taken out is essentially exactly what we will be spending on average during a month. So we just spend that like we normally do, and since our "planned" spending reflects our historical spending, we are basically always right on target.

edit: if at the end of the year, we've underspent what I projected for our annual spending, I hold onto that cash until after Jan 1 and then put that annualized surplus into our IRAs. And this new, lower spending year will then be reflected in the new averages that I use to plan the upcoming year's spending/saving. Essentially, this "budgeting" activity is entirely so I can plan exactly how much I can save (and in what accounts). Doing so accurately requires an accurate projection of our spending and tax bill so I can take that money out of consideration. Then it's just a matter of 'set and forget'.

I also do have mint set up with the budget feature with my annual spending targets (divided by 12 to get our monthly averages) for each category. But I never worry when a certain category goes over because we frequently buy items in bulk or take advantage of end-of-season sales, which over the course of the year, is cheaper. I check mint daily, and take a cursory glance at the how our spending is doing in relation to our budget (Mint has "buckets" which are filled as transactions with that category label come through). This helps me keep on top of any transactions that might have been automatically mis-categorized so our spending plan can be as accurate as possible.

edit2: I just realized I didn't really answer your question! ok, so how parts of this method could help you achieve a higher savings rate:
--our annual spending plan is kind of a big financial meeting between DH and I. We go over this years spending and talk about what went well, and what didn't. What changes do we want to make this coming year? And then we may set some lower spending targets for certain categories that we aren't currently happy with.
--so that means when I'm planning our yearly spending, the plan is a combination of historical spending habits but also realistic spending goals. Based on what our spending for a certain category "felt like" this year, and compared to other years, we can kind of tell how much we could reasonably adjust that same category the coming year. We can pick up to 3 categories to adjust; any more than that and it is too much change to be sustainable. (It just happens that the last few years, we haven't felt the need to adjust our historical spending numbers to have goals; we are happy with the averages as they are.)
--In mint, I can set my "target" category budget as this lower target number for a category I want to keep my eye on day to day.
--only having one month's worth of expenses (after pulling out our savings first!) sitting in our bank account seems to emulate a variation of the envelope method. This is the amount we get to spend this month and that's it--once it's gone, its gone.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 11:01:16 AM by Lady SA »

SM2

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2019, 10:15:34 AM »
I started to track my spending last year as I am a single mom now and needed to understand where what I had went. With that I also took a hard look at what I could cut back on and places I could save.

I use a spreadsheet now as of this year where I input every $$ I spend into categories for a more extensive breakdown. Based on some guesses I had with a handful of months last year, I then budgeted for each of these categories.

It isn't easy for me. Every month is a challenge. I am not a spender by any means but there have been major life changes and my children live very different lifestyles with me versus their father (as the income disparity is significant).

So between being forced into this and tracking my spending, I have found that I don't treat myself to little things even very often as those expenses do add up.

By tracking it all, I can see where I spend and for me that is personally helpful. It does take time but I will do it when I don't have my children or after they are in bed. It was a way for me to look at how I can save more in some areas.

Dianalou

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Re: Changing Tactics on Budgeting?
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2019, 12:31:31 PM »
I use a system that I found on a website Fun Cheap or Free which has lifestyle and budgeting stuff on it. Basically I optimized all of our big spending (car insurance, cell phones etc.) that's monthly and then I made a budget for myself on the monthly stuff that is discretionary, like groceries, eating out, random purchases for the kids, random indulgences for myself. I budget $100 week for groceries and $25 for other. I will borrow back and forth between the categories that week, but not week to week. I like her approach that you can always delay by just a few days to get to the next week's budget. Short term deprivation just doesn't feel as bad. Then whatever I have left over that week I transfer into savings, or 'save it' until the end of the month and then make a principal payment on the house. I keep a little register in my purse to keep track, just on a scrap of paper. It's simple enough that I keep on top of it, but also effective. I paired that with actual meal planning every week and it makes the house run so much smoother. Saving money, no bickering over what's for dinner, eating healthier. My husband doesn't follow this, but he's also not really in charge of any discretionary spending each week and probably spends less than $50 a month on stuff. He's more of a big purchase twice a year kind of person, so it all evens out.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!