Author Topic: Changed: Diet and Exercise for Athlete Fat Loss  (Read 11151 times)

OttoVonBisquick

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2015, 09:39:56 AM »
The article simply says about losing body fat "that there are tons of resources out there", but talks about recovery as a method of bulking up combined with eating more. And I really, really don't want to bulk whatsoever.

What you said makes some sense, I guess, regarding that, and perhaps I should do fewer, more explosive, whole-body workouts?

Here's what my workout cycle generally is, repeating ad infinitum, with one break day usually on the weekend:
Day 1: Upper Body = Pullups, Bench Press, tricep dips, all heavy and few
Day 2: Fast runs = 1 mile running ~8 min/mile, rest 5 mins, repeat mile and speed
Day 3: Leg Workout = Bulgarian Split Squats, Sideways Banded shuffles, Squats

Evenings once or twice a week I will play tennis or, if not, do my "throws", which are throwing the discus with my left hand and practicing tennis serves with my right for an hour or two.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2015, 09:58:40 AM »
The article simply says about losing body fat "that there are tons of resources out there", but talks about recovery as a method of bulking up combined with eating more. And I really, really don't want to bulk whatsoever.

What you said makes some sense, I guess, regarding that, and perhaps I should do fewer, more explosive, whole-body workouts?

Here's what my workout cycle generally is, repeating ad infinitum, with one break day usually on the weekend:
Day 1: Upper Body = Pullups, Bench Press, tricep dips, all heavy and few
Day 2: Fast runs = 1 mile running ~8 min/mile, rest 5 mins, repeat mile and speed
Day 3: Leg Workout = Bulgarian Split Squats, Sideways Banded shuffles, Squats

Evenings once or twice a week I will play tennis or, if not, do my "throws", which are throwing the discus with my left hand and practicing tennis serves with my right for an hour or two.


DH's feedback:

Swap bench for pushups (try to work up to clapping pushups) --> explosive movement is more neuromuscluar development, not muscular strictly, to this will train that threshold
You "fast runs" are actually really moderate. If you want to train explosive and CV improvement, do HIIT (high intensity interval training), like burpees on a tabata timer
Add an explosive leg workout-> squats are not explosive. Power cleans or hang cleans are the best start for people, as long as you have the shoulder mobility for the rack position. Otherwise working a box jump or similar to open the hip will get you that same movement with less bulking.
The tennis is great, trains explosion, tendons, and good full body movements

And he adds, "If you really want to wreck yourself, do some burpee pull-ups. My favorite!" He also says, "his program will eventually work for what he wants. It's just not very optimal"


(If you can't tell, he is insane. But he gets incredible results). I will add: with heavy and few on bench, as a young male, you're gonna gain bulk. You're fine on the pullups I'm sure. Just any time DH adds bench I have to buy him new shirts >.<

OttoVonBisquick

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2015, 10:14:21 AM »
Haha alright, thanks so much for all the input. FYI I just bought a round of new shirts myself ;)

I'll swap a few of the suggested elements into of my workout, and try to maintain <120g carbs, >=150g protein, and higher fat diet. I'll also try and not work out when my body is under a lot of stress, like today when I'm underslept and have a minor rotator cuff strain from discus combined with cardio yesterday.

I wish there was a more definitive way to hone in on my actual caloric expenditure day-by-day depending on the workout.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2015, 12:10:06 PM »

I wish there was a more definitive way to hone in on my actual caloric expenditure day-by-day depending on the workout.

I'm glad to hear you have a plan and that the forums were able to help get you there!

Me saying this will be ironic, but don't over-measure or over-science your workout and diet, ultimately. The simple fact is you can't count every calorie and every macro. For one, the things that have labels for all that aren't what you should be eating. For two, labels are super inaccurate. FDA labeling rules were created when under-selling the consumer was the problem, not label accuracy for health metrics. Basically, the way label accuracy is audited (which isn't often), is taking the average weight and values for a whole run of a product, and seeing where that comes... it cannot be below the claimed numbers, but CAN be pretty high above the claimed values (like 20% higher in some cases). And if you think calculating input is a shit show, calculating output is worse. People aren't bomb calorimeters, so calculating how "calories" work in our body is just... basically impossible, because there are so many variables.

That isn't to say "give up hope", but rather, don't be afraid to be a little laid back about it. Not stressing will probably help you hold to your goals (and achieve your goals) better than stressing on every detail =) Just track your indicators- waist measurement, how well you sleep, how you feel, what you can do on various lifts, etc. That'll tell you way more than anything else! "What gets measured gets managed" only works if you actually can manage that variable!

OttoVonBisquick

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2015, 02:11:28 PM »
Good points, thanks a bunch for the help. I'll keep ironing it out, within reason.

Mrs.LC

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2015, 02:57:51 PM »
Hmm. My first thought was to google "How to open a can of tuna without an opener". I'm sure there are several YouTube videos out there that can help!
 

OttoVonBisquick

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2015, 10:45:19 AM »
DH's feedback:

Swap bench for pushups (try to work up to clapping pushups) --> explosive movement is more neuromuscluar development, not muscular strictly, to this will train that threshold
You "fast runs" are actually really moderate. If you want to train explosive and CV improvement, do HIIT (high intensity interval training), like burpees on a tabata timer
Add an explosive leg workout-> squats are not explosive. Power cleans or hang cleans are the best start for people, as long as you have the shoulder mobility for the rack position. Otherwise working a box jump or similar to open the hip will get you that same movement with less bulking.
The tennis is great, trains explosion, tendons, and good full body movements

And he adds, "If you really want to wreck yourself, do some burpee pull-ups. My favorite!" He also says, "his program will eventually work for what he wants. It's just not very optimal"


(If you can't tell, he is insane. But he gets incredible results). I will add: with heavy and few on bench, as a young male, you're gonna gain bulk. You're fine on the pullups I'm sure. Just any time DH adds bench I have to buy him new shirts >.<

I just did a more explosive leg workout today, all exercises done multiple times in rapid succession, with a 2 minute or so break between cycles:

Bulgarian Split Squats (more emphasis on lighter weight but driving foot down and plowing up quickly)
Jumping Bulgarian Split Squats while switching legs each jump (don't know what that's called)
100 Jumping jacks
10 Box jumps

Put a holy fire in my legs by the time I was done, but I worked up a high heart rate and solid sweat.
Thank your DH for me; I'm betting this will definitely help. If he has any other leg suggestions, you let me know!

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2015, 12:03:49 PM »
DH's feedback:

Swap bench for pushups (try to work up to clapping pushups) --> explosive movement is more neuromuscluar development, not muscular strictly, to this will train that threshold
You "fast runs" are actually really moderate. If you want to train explosive and CV improvement, do HIIT (high intensity interval training), like burpees on a tabata timer
Add an explosive leg workout-> squats are not explosive. Power cleans or hang cleans are the best start for people, as long as you have the shoulder mobility for the rack position. Otherwise working a box jump or similar to open the hip will get you that same movement with less bulking.
The tennis is great, trains explosion, tendons, and good full body movements

And he adds, "If you really want to wreck yourself, do some burpee pull-ups. My favorite!" He also says, "his program will eventually work for what he wants. It's just not very optimal"


(If you can't tell, he is insane. But he gets incredible results). I will add: with heavy and few on bench, as a young male, you're gonna gain bulk. You're fine on the pullups I'm sure. Just any time DH adds bench I have to buy him new shirts >.<

I just did a more explosive leg workout today, all exercises done multiple times in rapid succession, with a 2 minute or so break between cycles:

Bulgarian Split Squats (more emphasis on lighter weight but driving foot down and plowing up quickly)
Jumping Bulgarian Split Squats while switching legs each jump (don't know what that's called)
100 Jumping jacks
10 Box jumps

Put a holy fire in my legs by the time I was done, but I worked up a high heart rate and solid sweat.
Thank your DH for me; I'm betting this will definitely help. If he has any other leg suggestions, you let me know!

Glad it helped! Yeah, making sure you recover enough on HIIT is sometimes easy because you can WRECK yourself in the best possible way.

Just remember: epson salt soaking baths are your friend ;) most people are magnesium deficient anyway, so it's doubly useful! (That being said, be super wary of oral magnesium supplements... people get side effects at different levels, and they are very unpleasant).

If you ever have additional specific questions, feel free to PM and I'll pass them on to DH.

Cromacster

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2015, 12:28:55 PM »
I've been low carb for years, been down as low as 5% body fat, but generally stay below 10%. The whole needing carbs for exercise things isn't true. To prove it to myself I did the otter trail (local 30 mile 5 day hike up and down mountains repeatedly!) while on low carb. Well not just low carb, but low carb and fasted, for the last three years I've only ever eaten at night, google leangains.

Bodies need good nutrition. Meal timing is a fallacy IMO.

No you don't need carbs to perform, but cabs are the most readily available energy source and allow your to perform at your top potential.  I would still be surprised if you can find any elite level athlete who claims to be low carb.

www.eattoperform.com

Cromacster

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2015, 12:29:59 PM »
I wish there was a more definitive way to hone in on my actual caloric expenditure day-by-day depending on the workout.

This can be covered with some self awareness.  If you have a shitty training day or are lacking energy in general think about what you ate the day prior, what you did, how much you slept, anything causing high amounts of stress etc.  Try to find the cause and adjust.  The actual numbers don't matter very much if you are seeing the results you want and the most immediate differences you will notice is how you feel and how you are performing.

OttoVonBisquick

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Re: Diet help needed!
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2015, 01:04:32 PM »
www.eattoperform.com

Sweet find! Will absolutely be reading through that website. Appreciate your input!

Glad it helped! Yeah, making sure you recover enough on HIIT is sometimes easy because you can WRECK yourself in the best possible way.

Just remember: epson salt soaking baths are your friend ;) most people are magnesium deficient anyway, so it's doubly useful! (That being said, be super wary of oral magnesium supplements... people get side effects at different levels, and they are very unpleasant).

If you ever have additional specific questions, feel free to PM and I'll pass them on to DH.

I will certainly take you up on that!

OttoVonBisquick

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Re: Changed: Diet and Exercise for Athlete Fat Loss
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2015, 08:50:43 PM »
Bit of an update and a follow up question, regarding my workout and diet today.

As others have said, and I have taken to heart: I am no longer obsessing over exact nutritional intake, so this next investigation is more out of curiosity regarding diet and eating than actual need for improvement. I use myfitnesspal.com to track how well I'm eating, more or less.

1) My diet today had ~150g carbs (all oats, banana, peanut butter, some cherries), and I did a HIIT leg workout. I hit ~145g fat and ~155g protein, and hit ~2500-2600 calories. I still feel hungry at the end of the day.  Am I over-reporting somewhere? I just look up every ingredient, so I think I'm being somewhat accurate.

2) I'm kinda skeptical about eating 1 cup oatmeal and 1 large banana, getting me 85g of carbs, although I like to work out about two hours after eating. I assume that this is actually sound nutrition, but I wanted to hear what others thought who don't consume a large amount of carbs. As seen above, I hit 150g for the day, but I'm also trying to reduce body fat %, so I'm curious if anyone has ridden that line and has input.

Cromacster

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Re: Changed: Diet and Exercise for Athlete Fat Loss
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2015, 06:19:25 AM »
I still feel hungry at the end of the day.  Am I over-reporting somewhere? I just look up every ingredient, so I think I'm being somewhat accurate.

If you're still hungry have more protein.  My go to before bed is some hard boiled eggs if I am hungry.

Quote
2) I'm kinda skeptical about eating 1 cup oatmeal and 1 large banana, getting me 85g of carbs, although I like to work out about two hours after eating. I assume that this is actually sound nutrition, but I wanted to hear what others thought who don't consume a large amount of carbs. As seen above, I hit 150g for the day, but I'm also trying to reduce body fat %, so I'm curious if anyone has ridden that line and has input.

85g carbs seems about right for oatmeal and a banana, though I would say its more like 65-75, but minor difference for the most part.

You could try changing the amount of carbs you eat depending on what you are doing.  Days you workout hard shoot for more like 200g of carbs and days you rest get around 100-150g.

OttoVonBisquick

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Re: Changed: Diet and Exercise for Athlete Fat Loss
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2015, 08:00:33 AM »
You could try changing the amount of carbs you eat depending on what you are doing.  Days you workout hard shoot for more like 200g of carbs and days you rest get around 100-150g.

Not a bad idea. Not sure why I didn't really consider varying nutrition depending on day of intake. However, in order to eat that many carbs, I'd need to decrease my fat intake. Is this simply a matter of necessity or should I experiment exchanging fat/carb ratios on my workout days and see what fits?

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Changed: Diet and Exercise for Athlete Fat Loss
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2015, 08:55:48 AM »
You could try changing the amount of carbs you eat depending on what you are doing.  Days you workout hard shoot for more like 200g of carbs and days you rest get around 100-150g.

Not a bad idea. Not sure why I didn't really consider varying nutrition depending on day of intake. However, in order to eat that many carbs, I'd need to decrease my fat intake. Is this simply a matter of necessity or should I experiment exchanging fat/carb ratios on my workout days and see what fits?

Well, you can cycle total calories as well. Basically, what I do is have my "baseline diet". During the summer, it tends to look like:
breakfast- coffee with heavy cream, a 1/8lb beef patty, an egg fried in butter
lunch- tuna salad "sushi" (basically just tuna on seaweed and I dip it in tamari and wasabi. Sometimes top with sriracha).
dinner- taco salad with steak strips, guacamole, sour cream, and salsa, on a bed of romaine
But, if I'm doing a heavy day, I will add a mixed berry, spinach, and banana smoothie after my workout, and I will do the taco salad as a "chipotle bowl" on rice instead of lettuce. If I'm still hungry (usually after a big hike) I will do whole fat plain yogurt with almonds and honey (or a hardboiled egg with string cheese. Best combo ever).

Since I have a "base diet" and then a "busy day" diet, I don't take out any fat, I just add extra carbs and extra food in general. YMMV, but I find my appetite sways hugely with activity for me.

In general though, when you first lower your carb intake and increase your fat intake, even if you have increased your calories, you'll feel hungry for a while. Carbs are much easier for your body to breakdown and use, and our bodies really like taking the easy road. So much easier to say "hey I need more carbs!" than to digest all that fat. This does mean some people have GI concerns when first increasing fat, btw. Be warned. But like any dietary changes, your body just needs a little time to adapt.

OttoVonBisquick

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Re: Changed: Diet and Exercise for Athlete Fat Loss
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2015, 09:41:29 AM »
You could try changing the amount of carbs you eat depending on what you are doing.  Days you workout hard shoot for more like 200g of carbs and days you rest get around 100-150g.

Not a bad idea. Not sure why I didn't really consider varying nutrition depending on day of intake. However, in order to eat that many carbs, I'd need to decrease my fat intake. Is this simply a matter of necessity or should I experiment exchanging fat/carb ratios on my workout days and see what fits?

Well, you can cycle total calories as well. Basically, what I do is have my "baseline diet". During the summer, it tends to look like:
breakfast- coffee with heavy cream, a 1/8lb beef patty, an egg fried in butter
lunch- tuna salad "sushi" (basically just tuna on seaweed and I dip it in tamari and wasabi. Sometimes top with sriracha).
dinner- taco salad with steak strips, guacamole, sour cream, and salsa, on a bed of romaine
But, if I'm doing a heavy day, I will add a mixed berry, spinach, and banana smoothie after my workout, and I will do the taco salad as a "chipotle bowl" on rice instead of lettuce. If I'm still hungry (usually after a big hike) I will do whole fat plain yogurt with almonds and honey (or a hardboiled egg with string cheese. Best combo ever).

Since I have a "base diet" and then a "busy day" diet, I don't take out any fat, I just add extra carbs and extra food in general. YMMV, but I find my appetite sways hugely with activity for me.

In general though, when you first lower your carb intake and increase your fat intake, even if you have increased your calories, you'll feel hungry for a while. Carbs are much easier for your body to breakdown and use, and our bodies really like taking the easy road. So much easier to say "hey I need more carbs!" than to digest all that fat. This does mean some people have GI concerns when first increasing fat, btw. Be warned. But like any dietary changes, your body just needs a little time to adapt.

Yeah, I was having some, uh, digestive issues yesterday given the higher quantity of fat I was consuming. Good to know that will hopefully pass (pun not intended).