Censorship in this forum

[Raay]

So I was banned for a week without prior notice because of openly criticizing the idea that a purpose-seeking individual should engage in church activities (which was suggested by another member), pointing out the commercial character of church. My comment was also deleted without trace.

I don't see anything in the forum rules explaining that you shouldn't speak up against religion here. So what's up with it? Is it some moderator power tripping? The person who censored me didn't even care to mention who (s)he was. Not that I care much - I'm just going to leave here if I can't speak my mind or others find offense in what I say. Still, I thought it would be interesting for others to know the "policing" going on.

[Louisville]

I don't think the moderators should have to explain everything they do, but I must admit I'm curious about this. 
How did you criticize?  Reasonably, or were you an asshole about it?

[LibrarIan]

I'm commenting to see if this thread gets locked, removed or otherwise modded.

I didn't see your original comment, so I can't say with accuracy what may have happened. Were you insulting to an individual in your comment? If so, I can see why that might have been removed. Insulting to the idea put forth by an individual? I do not see this as bad.

As I stated in the Aggressive Atheists thread in the off-topic section, we have to separate ideas from people. It is perfectly fine to put ideas through the gauntlet, question them, criticize them, insult them, etc. This does not hold true for people. Bear this in mind, posters and mods alike.

[Raay]

Correction: the mod who banned me (which I can only see now) was arebelspy (who happened to disagree with me in the past on another topic). The comment was no removed but called "purposeful trolling" - see http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/no-passion-no-purpose-no-meaning/msg479012/#msg479012

So apparently Mr. arebelspy is capable of reading my purpose better than I am myself, wow!

[welliamwallace]

I'm as anti-theist as they come, but if I was a mod I'd remove that comment too. It's just rude and off topic. Moderators have lots of discretion on what posts they remove and allow, to craft the community to be one with the type of environment they want.

[Cromacster]

I've been around a while.  I've seen some people say some very controversial things.  I've also seen people say "mean" things.  The only times I have seen a Mod intervene is when discussions trend towards personal attacks or more or less derogatory statements directed at the individual.

I feel the mods here a very fair and open.  That leads me to believe whatever you said or did was extreme enough to warrant such a ban.

[Raay]

I'm commenting to see if this thread gets locked, removed or otherwise modded.

I didn't see your original comment, so I can't say with accuracy what may have happened. Were you insulting to an individual in your comment? If so, I can see why that might have been removed. Insulting to the idea put forth by an individual? I do not see this as bad.

As I stated in the Aggressive Atheists thread in the off-topic section, we have to separate ideas from people. It is perfectly fine to put ideas through the gauntlet, question them, criticize them, insult them, etc. This does not hold true for people. Bear this in mind, posters and mods alike.

I don't think I insulted anyone with the comment - I was being sarcastic for sure. To be honest, one can never be sure what religious people are going to find insulting personally, so if that is the rule of conduct here, then yes, it's better that I leave.

[Louisville]

I see now. You were an asshole in that link.
I agree with your stance, religion is silly, but if you're just going be snarky, well that doesn't add a lot to the conversation, does it?
Instead be polite and thoughtful.

[Raay]

arebelspy, if the requirement is to be polite and thoughtful, kindly remove my account and all comments posted so far.

[Louisville]

To be honest, one can never be sure what religious people are going to find insulting personally

You're still doing it...

[Cromacster]

Lol you're just butt hurt.  Just leave the forum.  You don't need a mod to kick you.

[arebelspy]

You were temporarily banned for purposefully trolling.  It was not the content of what you were posting, but how you were doing it.

Also, not a single one of your posts was deleted.  I don't know why you would claim that, other than lying to make your "censorship" point.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just couldn't find it again.  (Hint: you can click on your username to see all of your posts.)

Here is the post in question, where another member suggested to someone who was having trouble finding purpose/meaning:

I may have missed it if someone has already said it, but you might try going to Church, many people find purpose there.

And you responded:

Surely you mean to say that religions and their many "humble servants" hijack the human purpose-seeking behavior for profit and that he shouldn't fall for it.

That's just straight rude trolling.  Surely they didn't mean to say that.  You may not get anything out of church (I personally find it dreadfully boring), but what value did that snarky comment add?  Let the person suggest it, let the OP of that thread consider it and reject or accept it as they please.  If you'd like to add your own input for the OP, great.  But being rude to that other poster isn't.

Plenty of reasonable discussion goes on here, with all viewpoints.  But the forum rules always apply:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/forum-information-faqs/forum-rules/

If you're going to be an asshole about your point of view, GTFO.  If you can reasonably discuss what you think without being a dick, awesome!  If you are detracting from our community, no thanks.  We love debating and we love differing opinions.  Unfortunately some people can't handle arguing respectfully, and so if they're just being negative and rude and making people not want to participate, they will be asked to leave.

The temporary ban is the warning.  If the behavior remains, the ban will be reissued permanently.

[shotgunwilly]

Or... you could just leave.

[Raay]

Will you fulfill my request and remove all my content from here, or will you just issue a ban in your power tripping laziness?

[arebelspy]

Whoah, when I started typing, there was only one reply in this thread, now there's a bunch.

As others have noted, yes, that was a rude comment.  No, it was not deleted, but left there, but with a clear mod note that it was not acceptable behavior.  Our intent isn't to censor (thus why we usually leave comments - but not always), but to keep a reasonable community who aren't dicks to each other all the time, like many other places on the internet.

We do allow a LOT of leeway, and many heated discussions occur.  But directly rude trolling isn't acceptable.

Raay, if the requirement of "don't be a dick" means you don't want to participate, you have the ability to delete your account at any time.  I find that unfortunate, as you had some good, intelligent contributions.  But yes, if you can't post those without also posting rude comments.. take care.

[neo von retorch]

You're attacking someone's beliefs (or perhaps, more accurately some instances / institutions of religious beliefs) with sarcasm.

What you might mean:

Religion is one way to find something that you would consider a purpose, but be careful not to let a religious organization use my desire for purpose in ways that you do not intend to be used.

[LibrarIan]

Well, now that I read the post, it was pretty out of left field and mean spirited. It definitely did not offer any thoughtful insight into anything.

[Raay]

Whoah, when I started typing, there was only one reply in this thread, now there's a bunch.

As others have noted, yes, that was a rude comment.  No, it was not deleted, but left there, but with a clear mod note that it was not acceptable behavior.  Our intent isn't to censor (thus why we usually leave comments - but not always), but to keep a reasonable community who aren't dicks to each other all the time, like many other places on the internet.

We do allow a LOT of leeway, and many heated discussions occur.  But directly rude trolling isn't acceptable.

Raay, if the requirement of "don't be a dick" means you don't want to participate, you have the ability to delete your account at any time.  I find that unfortunate, as you had some good, intelligent contributions.  But yes, if you can't post those without also posting rude comments.. take care.

I'm going to delete the account. If posts are not deleted with it, I would appreciate it if you deleted them, too. Thanks and good bye.

[J'onn J'onzz]

While I agree that the post is snarky and generally rude is that really something that warrants a ban in a forum that one of the most popular threads of all time is dedicated to make fun of other peoples way of life?

Seems a bit contradicting.

[arebelspy]

While I agree that the post is snarky and generally rude is that really something that warrants a ban in a forum that one of the most popular threads of all time is dedicated to make fun of other peoples way of life?

Seems a bit contradicting.

Rudely trolling/attacking another member of the forums to stir things up and make the community not fun is different than posting a link to an external URL and noting how ridiculous their behavior is.

We don't have a section of the forums of "be directly rude to each other."

Think about when someone not Mustachian posts a case study.  They may get some gentle facepunches, but no one is directly rude/laughing at them.  The behavior towards each other has a different expectation than discussion about an article on a different website.  I hope it's clear as to why.

[arebelspy]

I'm going to delete the account. If posts are not deleted with it, I would appreciate it if you deleted them, too. Thanks and good bye.

I will see about deleting your posts; since you didn't delete them now that I can't click on your name to aggregate them all it's considerably more difficult.  I will leave the posts in this thread, however.

Thanks to those posting here affirming that they saw that comment as inappropriate.   Censorship is absolutely one of the things the mods here try to avoid, but we do try to keep a nice community people will want to enjoy coming to, so moderating is a fine balance at times.  Unfortunately as the forum grows bigger, we'll have more jerks just from a numbers perspective, so we rely on users to keep the forum tone kind.  You guys rock.

I'm going to lock this thread, but if anyone has any questions about the moderating, feel free to PM me or another mod.

Thanks.