Cell phone plan for foreign teenager living in the US for the year?

[Trifle]

Hello smart folks

We're hosting a foreign (German) exchange student here in the US for a year, and we need a phone plan for her.  She brought a newer Android phone with her and would like to keep using it.  She wants to get a local number and have a medium amount of data and calling.  The vast majority of the time she'll be on wifi, so she doesn't need a ton.  She does not need international calling, since she'll use Skype or Whatsapp on wifi for that.

Please talk to me like I'm 5 years old.  Is there a cheap and easy way to do this?  Do we just sign her up with something like Mint or Ting, assuming their coverage is ok and her phone is compatible?  Is there more to it?

Thank you!

[FLBiker]

Mint and Ting seem like reasonable options.  Google FI might also be good.

[Dave1442397]

Mint should be good. Sign up, get the SIM card, pop it in the phone.

[PMG]

Mint 7 day trials are available via Amazon for 99 cents. You can test compatibility and coverage then move to a real plan.

[JJ-]

With mint I think you also need to download the app or set up an account online for your phone number but that takes 5 minutes. You should check phone compatibility here but it also takes$0.99 to test.

I use mint for my phone plan in a major metropolitan area without any issue. The 4gb plan is enough for me. I believe it uses the t mobile network here but I'm not sure if it's nationwide.

PM me if you want a referral code.

[Daley]

@Trifele? Your German exchange student, strongly dependent upon their mobile phone model, may have a really bad time trying to use their European smartphone in the United States.

Without knowing the EXACT make and model of the handset in question (and do make sure it's carrier unlocked), it's difficult to provide any meaningful or specific recommendations. I'm not going to talk to you like a five year old, but an adult, and I will try to keep it simple. But there's still a lot of reading to get you up to speed, and I'll try to divide things up for you. Now, let me explain why...


First, a few things to understand as to what's going on currently with the US mobile phone market and access to voice calling:

VoLTE is Voice phone service over LTE data networks. This works very differently than the older 3G voice services that nearly any international handset can handle. The rest of the world is happy to leave those legacy 2G/3G networks operational. Oceania (Americas/Australia/Japan - Pacific Rim) and the USA especially, is in a race to shut down and obsolete legacy networks as quickly as possible. This is probably due to equal parts hubris, planned obsolescence, consumerism, and proprietary infighting. No matter what you attribute it to, the consumer is the loser. Even with $1000 big band and network support handsets that can be taken "anywhere" with model consolidation, the world still mostly falls and splits into two models with these handsets, Oceania and Eurasia+Africa, and even "international" handsets may run into trouble here in the USA specifically depending on make and manufacturer and chosen network carrier even if the phone has VoLTE Band 12 support.

T-Mobile is currently shutting off all their legacy 2G/3G networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only.

AT&T will be shutting off their legacy 3G networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only at the beginning of next year.

Verizon will be shutting off their legacy CDMA networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only throughout the next year.

VoLTE deployment and handset interoperability in the United States between carriers is an absolute charlie foxtrot, as you'll quickly learn. VoLTE Band 12 is supposed to be the common voice band for the USA and for roaming agreements between carriers (edit: memory error and misprint, I think Band 12 [700MHz C block] was originally intended, but we've gotten Bands 2 and 4 as the common carrier bands for VoLTE roaming which is the same PCS/AWS spectrum that T-Mo notoriously used for GSM 2G/3G voice services for years that had terrible building penetration and forced them to be the first US adopter of Voice over WiFi a decade ago until they shut it off last year), but roaming access to Band 12 any of these bands isn't the same as native network access...

AT&T primarily uses a basic, internationally compatible VoLTE implementation on multiple LTE bands (mostly 2 and 12). However, they've set up basic VoLTE access to whitelisted IMEI (phone serial number) handsets only, which means AT&T only branded handsets. They're notorious for not supporting fully compatible international handsets from working on their network thus far, despite being able to work, because their IMEI isn't on the list. There are ways around this, but it requires a postpaid AT&T account, and being technical enough to know what model handset (that's actually reasonably close to what you actually have) to lie to the AT&T rep to get the IMEI manually accepted and added to their whitelist. So, even if you stuck in an AT&T SIM card today and the phone works today (which it likely would given their 3G network still being operational), it will likely stop working in under five months.

T-Mobile primarily uses LTE Band 12 (a commonly supported international LTE data band supported on international handsets), however, their VoLTE implementation is proprietary and requires VoLTE software "certification". As an example, aftermarket Android ROMs like LineageOS that even support and easily do VoLTE calling in the rest of the world rarely ever work on T-Mobile, even if VoLTE worked on the handset with T-Mobile before flashing a new OS onto the phone. Because of this, many "international" Android handsets actually might not work on T-Mobile in the United States. This said, with the student from Germany, it's possible they're already on T-Mobile there and bought their handset from T-Mobile Germany. This increases odds of compatibility specifically for them.

Verizon uses bog standard VoLTE implementations for their voice services, so no hinky stuff like IMEI whitelists or proprietary "certification" and implementation. Unfortunately, LTE Band 13 is used for most of their voice services and for SIM activation. This isn't to say there aren't patches in their network that don't offer Band 12 coverage (they're mostly urban) (edit: lol, error in my brain and LTE band cheat sheet, Verizon has no Band 12 spectrum, I was thinking of USCC the other remaining CDMA network - sorry, I'm getting old and the memory isn't what it used to be) but to activate a SIM card for service and to get regular network coverage for making calls, you need a handset that specifically has LTE Band 13. There are only four countries (and barely more carriers than the country count) that even use LTE Band 13: USA, Canada, Bolivia, and Belize. So, there's that.

Awkward growing pains and all that. I'm hoping they'll all stop with these shenanigans after they all fully transition over to VoLTE and shut off the legacy networks and just let phones be taken from network to network again once carrier unlocked like back in the GSM 2G/3G days, but where's the fun and profit in not forcing people to buy new handsets when switching carriers by preventing network interoperability through minor technical loopholes.


"Why does this matter? Don't kids these days just use data and video chat and internet based communications apps like Zoom and WhatsApp?" I can hear someone say. You bring it up yourself. Two Words: Emergency Services. 911 phone support isn't the worst idea (especially with a callback number available to dispatchers), and the VoLTE implementation here appears to be really cocking up that whole guaranteed access to 911, even without a SIM card, that mobile handsets are supposed to have... though I'm digressing a bit.

Bottom line, if the phone won't work here in the USA with one of the big three, the phone won't work, and you'll probably have to pick up a new handset for them. So, be prepared for that possibility.

Unrelated and secondary to the big elephant of network compatibility, another consideration might be international calling and texting support by the phone plan itself so the kid has a way of keeping in touch with friends and family back home by means other than internet based apps only, for both safety and convenience reasons related to potential emergency situations. I know it's being skirted "to save money", but the savings aren't that much to have versus not have. Even with congested data traffic, actual VoLTE calls and SMS messages are going to be prioritized over common data access during a larger crisis. Not all MVNOs have international text and calling support, and some have more than others depending on the country in question. So, something else to keep in mind while shopping as well.


So, TL;DR: T-Mobile based MVNOs with good international calling and texting plans might be your best option if your exchange student's handset is from T-Mobile back home or is known to already work on T-Mobile here in the States, but it's still a crapshoot without researching for compatibility first. Also, buying a full year prepaid plan could be a good way to save some cash if you're willing to take the risk. But it's critical to know if the phone is going to work at all in the first place. T-Mo based MVNOs can potentially be the cheapest of the big three these days, too. This said, if you don't have great T-Mo coverage, go with the network that has the best coverage in your area. And if you need a new phone and you already have a phone for another network for cheap/free that has VoLTE support, go with the network that phone supports.

With this in mind, I will make an MVNO recommendation. Red Pocket offers plans on all three networks, sells a $10 SIM card kit with SIM cards provided for all three networks and their month to month "unlimited" calling prices are still some of the cheapest you'll find on all three networks. They also offer international direct dial and unlimited minutes to Germany (land lines) and limited minutes (29-105 depending on network) to cellphones with their unlimited calling plans. This path guarantees a single recommendation provider that will have a SIM card that'll work on whatever network/device has to be used, and provides international calling to boot. You'll be looking at around $240 plus tax and fees for the year at the baseline for an "unlimited" plan billed monthly ($180 for the year through the eBay store), but there are cheaper options.

If a really small plan is on the table, Red Pocket has a 500 minute 500 SMS and 500MB plan on all three networks for $10/month, or their $99 annual plan sold through their Ebay store that provides 1000 minutes, unlimited texts and 1GB of data. I believe the international calling is limited with these plans, however.


Last thought as it's been mentioned by others: Be aware of Mint's actual prices, and note that they charge extra per minute on calls to Germany. Those alluring per month prices that you're advertised on the intro three months are only the annual plan pricing for calls to the US/Canada/Mexico. Otherwise, their prices are just about equal to or more expensive per month to Red Pocket. It doesn't make financial sense to use them in this situation unless you're 100% certain a T-Mo MVNO will work, and you're willing to agree to their terms and services and be potentially willing to lose the balance of any money paid if they decide to terminate the account early for vague and dubious usage "abuse" like too much data of a certain type or too many calls... which, honestly, read the legal contracts with any provider you use as any provider promising "unlimited" anything will have various gotchas. The risk just gets dicier with pre-paying service months in advance.

Minimum price through Mint will be $180 plus tax and fees and per minute fees to Germany if you buy a full year up front, otherwise, the cheapest you'll get on their cheapest plan without paying for three or more unneeded months will be $240 plus tax and fees, or buying 15 months will be $225 plus tax and fees.

Edited because I forgot about the $180 annual plan from RedPocket.
Edited again because my memory and notes are a little fuzzy at this point, and a couple details were wrong... nothing that changes the reality of VoLTE interoperability in this country, but wrong none the less. Sorry about that.

[JJ-]

@Trifele? Your German exchange student, strongly dependent upon their mobile phone model, may have a really bad time trying to use their European smartphone in the United States.

Without knowing the EXACT make and model of the handset in question (and do make sure it's carrier unlocked), it's difficult to provide any meaningful or specific recommendations. I'm not going to talk to you like a five year old, but an adult, and I will try to keep it simple. But there's still a lot of reading to get you up to speed, and I'll try to divide things up for you. Now, let me explain why...


First, a few things to understand as to what's going on currently with the US mobile phone market and access to voice calling:

VoLTE is Voice phone service over LTE data networks. This works very differently than the older 3G voice services that nearly any international handset can handle. The rest of the world is happy to leave those legacy 2G/3G networks operational. Oceania (Americas/Australia/Japan - Pacific Rim) and the USA especially, is in a race to shut down and obsolete legacy networks as quickly as possible. This is probably due to equal parts hubris, planned obsolescence, consumerism, and proprietary infighting. No matter what you attribute it to, the consumer is the loser. Even with $1000 big band and network support handsets that can be taken "anywhere" with model consolidation, the world still mostly falls and splits into two models with these handsets, Oceania and Eurasia+Africa, and even "international" handsets may run into trouble here in the USA specifically depending on make and manufacturer and chosen network carrier even if the phone has VoLTE Band 12 support.

T-Mobile is currently shutting off all their legacy 2G/3G networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only.

AT&T will be shutting off their legacy 3G networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only at the beginning of next year.

Verizon will be shutting off their legacy CDMA networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only throughout the next year.

VoLTE deployment and handset interoperability in the United States between carriers is an absolute charlie foxtrot, as you'll quickly learn. VoLTE Band 12 is supposed to be the common voice band for the USA and for roaming agreements between carriers, but roaming access to Band 12 isn't the same as native network access...

AT&T primarily uses a basic, internationally compatible VoLTE implementation on multiple LTE bands (mostly 2 and 12). However, they've set up basic VoLTE access to whitelisted IMEI (phone serial number) handsets only, which means AT&T only branded handsets. They're notorious for not supporting fully compatible international handsets from working on their network thus far, despite being able to work, because their IMEI isn't on the list. There are ways around this, but it requires a postpaid AT&T account, and being technical enough to know what model handset (that's actually reasonably close to what you actually have) to lie to the AT&T rep to get the IMEI manually accepted and added to their whitelist. So, even if you stuck in an AT&T SIM card today and the phone works today (which it likely would given their 3G network still being operational), it will likely stop working in under five months.

T-Mobile primarily uses LTE Band 12 (a commonly supported international LTE data band supported on international handsets), however, their VoLTE implementation is proprietary and requires VoLTE software "certification". As an example, aftermarket Android ROMs like LineageOS that even support and easily do VoLTE calling in the rest of the world rarely ever work on T-Mobile, even if VoLTE worked on the handset with T-Mobile before flashing a new OS onto the phone. Because of this, many "international" Android handsets actually might not work on T-Mobile in the United States. This said, with the student from Germany, it's possible they're already on T-Mobile there and bought their handset from T-Mobile Germany. This increases odds of compatibility specifically for them.

Verizon uses bog standard VoLTE implementations for their voice services, so no hinky stuff like IMEI whitelists or proprietary "certification" and implementation. Unfortunately, LTE Band 13 is used for most of their voice services and for SIM activation. This isn't to say there aren't patches in their network that don't offer Band 12 coverage (they're mostly urban), but to activate a SIM card for service and to get regular network coverage for making calls, you need a handset that specifically has LTE Band 13. There are only four countries (and barely more carriers than the country count) that even use LTE Band 13: USA, Canada, Bolivia, and Belize. So, there's that.

Awkward growing pains and all that. I'm hoping they'll all stop with these shenanigans after they all fully transition over to VoLTE and shut off the legacy networks and just let phones be taken from network to network again once carrier unlocked like back in the GSM 2G/3G days, but where's the fun and profit in not forcing people to buy new handsets when switching carriers by preventing network interoperability through minor technical loopholes.


"Why does this matter? Don't kids these days just use data and video chat and internet based communications apps like Zoom and WhatsApp?" I can hear someone say. You bring it up yourself. Two Words: Emergency Services. 911 phone support isn't the worst idea (especially with a callback number available to dispatchers), and the VoLTE implementation here appears to be really cocking up that whole guaranteed access to 911, even without a SIM card, that mobile handsets are supposed to have... though I'm digressing a bit.

Bottom line, if the phone won't work here in the USA with one of the big three, the phone won't work, and you'll probably have to pick up a new handset for them. So, be prepared for that possibility.

Unrelated and secondary to the big elephant of network compatibility, another consideration might be international calling and texting support by the phone plan itself so the kid has a way of keeping in touch with friends and family back home by means other than internet based apps only, for both safety and convenience reasons related to potential emergency situations. I know it's being skirted "to save money", but the savings aren't that much to have versus not have. Even with congested data traffic, actual VoLTE calls and SMS messages are going to be prioritized over common data access during a larger crisis. Not all MVNOs have international text and calling support, and some have more than others depending on the country in question. So, something else to keep in mind while shopping as well.


So, TL;DR: T-Mobile based MVNOs with good international calling and texting plans might be your best option if your exchange student's handset is from T-Mobile back home or is known to already work on T-Mobile here in the States, but it's still a crapshoot without researching for compatibility first. Also, buying a full year prepaid plan could be a good way to save some cash if you're willing to take the risk. But it's critical to know if the phone is going to work at all in the first place. T-Mo based MVNOs can potentially be the cheapest of the big three these days, too. This said, if you don't have great T-Mo coverage, go with the network that has the best coverage in your area. And if you need a new phone and you already have a phone for another network for cheap/free that has VoLTE support, go with the network that phone supports.

With this in mind, I will make an MVNO recommendation. Red Pocket offers plans on all three networks, sells a $10 SIM card kit with SIM cards provided for all three networks and their month to month "unlimited" calling prices are still some of the cheapest you'll find on all three networks. They also offer international direct dial and unlimited minutes to Germany (land lines) and limited minutes (29-105 depending on network) to cellphones with their unlimited calling plans. This path guarantees a single recommendation provider that will have a SIM card that'll work on whatever network/device has to be used, and provides international calling to boot. You'll be looking at around $240 plus tax and fees for the year at the baseline.

This said, if a really small plan is on the table, Red Pocket has a 500 minute 500 SMS and 500MB plan on all three networks for $10/month, or their $99 annual plan sold through their Ebay store that provides 1000 minutes, unlimited texts and 1GB of data. I believe the international calling is limited with these plans, however.


Last thought as it's been mentioned by others: Be aware of Mint's actual prices, and note that they charge extra per minute on calls to Germany. Those alluring per month prices that you're advertised on the intro three months are only the annual plan pricing for calls to the US/Canada/Mexico. Otherwise, their prices are just about equal to or more expensive per month to Red Pocket. It doesn't make financial sense to use them in this situation unless you're 100% certain a T-Mo MVNO will work, and you're willing to agree to their terms and services and be potentially willing to lose the balance of any money paid if they decide to terminate the account early for vague and dubious usage "abuse" like too much data of a certain type or too many calls... which, honestly, read the legal contracts with any provider you use as any provider promising "unlimited" anything will have various gotchas. The risk just gets dicier with pre-paying service months in advance.

Minimum price through Mint will be $180 plus tax and fees and per minute fees to Germany if you buy a full year up front, otherwise, the cheapest you'll get on their cheapest plan without paying for three or more unneeded months will be $240 plus tax and fees, or buying 15 months will be $225 plus tax and fees.

I was hoping for a Daley appearance and this is a ton of useful info.

One question I have is how common is it these days for folks to do direct messaging via calls/text instead of WhatsApp? Do you know how that platform works in regards to phone providers?

[Daley]

One question I have is how common is it these days for folks to do direct messaging via calls/text instead of WhatsApp? Do you know how that platform works in regards to phone providers?

If the phone has LTE band support on the required networks major LTE bands, in theory, you should be fine using any internet based contact as long as you have signal... though app-based services can potentially be blacklisted or whitelisted by the carrier given data plans aren't really considered network neutral internet access (an example is TruPhone SIM back in the day gave free data for WhatsApp users only, but charged for mobile data for anything else - you also see a lot of this in the fine print of large high speed data plans where you're actually only provided 2GB of general internet data and the rest of the 3+GB of data is restricted to specific approved streaming video providers the network has peering agreements with), there's also data throttling based on traffic type and load, or there's varying degrees of IMEI based activation and restriction things going on with these carriers, too. So, there's your broad brush overview on how these sorts of apps might interplay with mobile service.

This said, traditional calls and texting still happens more than you realize in this country. I think the national average per month is still around 400-500 minutes a month and around 1000+ for text messaging. Both require a traditional phone number for use, and most account recovery and 2FA authentication is pushing hard for a phone number to use as well. Given everything's basically IP data on LTE networks now, even with calls and texting, the network prioritization on congested towers is still going to favor the MVNO calls and texts over regular internet traffic from apps like WhatsApp... and given MVNO users have some of the lowest priority on the networks, relying on the lowest priority data on the tower to use for higher bandwidth multimedia communication might result in less than stellar experiences. So, kinda hard to kick a traditional phone number to the curb, and support for e911 calling from a mobile device opens up a whole other kettle of fish.

Hope that answers your question.

[dougules]

Unrelated and secondary to the big elephant of network compatibility, another consideration might be international calling and texting support by the phone plan itself so the kid has a way of keeping in touch with friends and family back home by means other than internet based apps only, for both safety and convenience reasons related to potential emergency situations. I know it's being skirted "to save money", but the savings aren't that much to have versus not have. Even with congested data traffic, actual VoLTE calls and SMS messages are going to be prioritized over common data access during a larger crisis. Not all MVNOs have international text and calling support, and some have more than others depending on the country in question. So, something else to keep in mind while shopping as well.

Last thought as it's been mentioned by others: Be aware of Mint's actual prices, and note that they charge extra per minute on calls to Germany. Those alluring per month prices that you're advertised on the intro three months are only the annual plan pricing for calls to the US/Canada/Mexico. Otherwise, their prices are just about equal to or more expensive per month to Red Pocket. It doesn't make financial sense to use them in this situation unless you're 100% certain a T-Mo MVNO will work, and you're willing to agree to their terms and services and be potentially willing to lose the balance of any money paid if they decide to terminate the account early for vague and dubious usage "abuse" like too much data of a certain type or too many calls... which, honestly, read the legal contracts with any provider you use as any provider promising "unlimited" anything will have various gotchas. The risk just gets dicier with pre-paying service months in advance.

Minimum price through Mint will be $180 plus tax and fees and per minute fees to Germany if you buy a full year up front, otherwise, the cheapest you'll get on their cheapest plan without paying for three or more unneeded months will be $240 plus tax and fees, or buying 15 months will be $225 plus tax and fees.

What kind of emergency situation are you talking about that she would need to call/text back to Germany but couldn't just use data?  If there's no need for her to call any landlines in Germany, just use WhatsApp.  If there ends up being some kind of odd disaster or emergency situation where she needs to use regular SMS or voice to communicate back to Germany, then just eat the cost.  That seems too unlikely to plan your budget around. 

One question I have is how common is it these days for folks to do direct messaging via calls/text instead of WhatsApp? Do you know how that platform works in regards to phone providers?

I don't think WhatsApp is used very commonly within the US, but from what I've heard it's the preferred way to make even local calls and texts in some countries.  I use it to talk to my sister in Canada.  It's an app that just uses data to send voice and text, but the feel of it is a lot like using your carrier's voice and SMS directly.  It rings when you get a call, and it notifies you when you get a text the same as SMS.  It doesn't use very much data.  If you have unlimited data or are on Wi-Fi, it's essentially free.  I don't think there's a way to call landlines or people without WhatsApp, but if you're just wanting to talk to friends and family that all have smart phones, I don't see why that would be a problem.   

[JJ-]

One question I have is how common is it these days for folks to do direct messaging via calls/text instead of WhatsApp? Do you know how that platform works in regards to phone providers?

If the phone has LTE band support on the required networks major LTE bands, in theory, you should be fine using any internet based contact as long as you have signal... though app-based services can potentially be blacklisted or whitelisted by the carrier given data plans aren't really considered network neutral internet access (an example is TruPhone SIM back in the day gave free data for WhatsApp users only, but charged for mobile data for anything else - you also see a lot of this in the fine print of large high speed data plans where you're actually only provided 2GB of general internet data and the rest of the 3+GB of data is restricted to specific approved streaming video providers the network has peering agreements with), there's also data throttling based on traffic type and load, or there's varying degrees of IMEI based activation and restriction things going on with these carriers, too. So, there's your broad brush overview on how these sorts of apps might interplay with mobile service.

This said, traditional calls and texting still happens more than you realize in this country. I think the national average per month is still around 400-500 minutes a month and around 1000+ for text messaging. Both require a traditional phone number for use, and most account recovery and 2FA authentication is pushing hard for a phone number to use as well. Given everything's basically IP data on LTE networks now, even with calls and texting, the network prioritization on congested towers is still going to favor the MVNO calls and texts over regular internet traffic from apps like WhatsApp... and given MVNO users have some of the lowest priority on the networks, relying on the lowest priority data on the tower to use for higher bandwidth multimedia communication might result in less than stellar experiences. So, kinda hard to kick a traditional phone number to the curb, and support for e911 calling from a mobile device opens up a whole other kettle of fish.

Hope that answers your question.

It does. Thanks.

I don't think WhatsApp is used very commonly within the US, but from what I've heard it's the preferred way to make even local calls and texts in some countries.  I use it to talk to my sister in Canada.  It's an app that just uses data to send voice and text, but the feel of it is a lot like using your carrier's voice and SMS directly.  It rings when you get a call, and it notifies you when you get a text the same as SMS.  It doesn't use very much data.  If you have unlimited data or are on Wi-Fi, it's essentially free.  I don't think there's a way to call landlines or people without WhatsApp, but if you're just wanting to talk to friends and family that all have smart phones, I don't see why that would be a problem.   

I also use it for regular communication with folks outside the US, or with friends who have friends/family outside the us rather than trad messaging. I've got a handful of friends that use it for group communication within the US, but the person coming may also have WhatsApp and it may be a factor for determining which providers to go with. I still think Daley's RedPocket MVNO recommendation is probably the best one as it is the most informed. I wonder though if the foreign phone will work.

[Daley]

What kind of emergency situation are you talking about that she would need to call/text back to Germany but couldn't just use data?  If there's no need for her to call any landlines in Germany, just use WhatsApp.  If there ends up being some kind of odd disaster or emergency situation where she needs to use regular SMS or voice to communicate back to Germany, then just eat the cost.  That seems too unlikely to plan your budget around.

We're living in interesting times in a country with extra interesting events unfolding, and congested networks get data types prioritized. Why needlessly restrict or put a price on communications options at all?

I think about these things, because I've tried to use mobile phone service during catastrophic weather events while trapped on the road, close to the path of a mile wide tornado, trying to tell my wife I love her in case my ticket got punched that day. I wasn't the only one. Care to guess what network access failed first, and which failed last?

This said, your argument's kinda moot for "planning your budget around" when most of Mint's total costs for the year are actually around the same price or more expensive than the equivalent plans from Red Pocket month to month or buying either plan a year at a whack, which Red Pocket has their "unlimited" 3GB annual plan available for $180, the same price. I suspect the Red Pocket $99 annual plan is more in line with what the kid's after.... and given there's still international direct dialing credit included in that plan without charging extra for it? Even nicer! And if it isn't? It isn't. There's other options with more.

Edited because I forgot about the $180 annual plan from RedPocket.

[Trifle]

Wow!  Thanks everyone for the info.  I will take some time to try to digest everything.

I like the idea of just giving Mint a try for not very much $, to see if it works and everything is compatible -- thanks to @FLBiker, @Dave1442397, @PMG, and @JJ- .  She won't be placing any calls or doing any texting to Germany other than on Skype/Whatsapp, so I'm thinking and hoping that just a super-simple pay as you go deal with Mint will work for data and US calling.  I will also check out RedPocket -- thanks @Daley, I had not heard of that one. 

We'll do our best to check compatibility before we sign up for anything, but it sounds like that's not a perfect science and we still may get some surprises when we activate.  Worst case scenario we will have to get her a new phone. 

[Daley]

If you do wind up having to get a phone? This is my general MVNO network recommendation rule of thumb, which you should keep in mind while phone shopping.

Whatever network you're on currently, and you're happy with it, choose an MVNO on that network first. You already know what to expect that way.

If you're going into blindly selecting a network and MVNO and don't care about doing weird anti-Google privacy things with Android phones, choose the network in this order:
AT&T
Verizon
T-Mobile

(For the anti-Google privacy weirdos who'd rather run something like Lineage or /e/OS and still make voice calls without potentially jumping through ridiculous technical hoops, after the end of this year, there is only Verizon unless the device is already IMEI whitelisted on AT&T.)

Whatever network you're choosing, shop for phones that explicitly have support on that network.

Try to shop for used and refurbished first, and aim for carrier unlocked if possible - though, if it's carrier locked to the network you're planning to use, that's okay too. Backmarket, Swappa and Glyde are good options if you don't want to wade through the minefield of eBay. Just make sure the IMEI is clean and not reported stolen or still under contract.

Motorola and Nokia handsets are about the only Android phones I'm inclined to recommend.

If you just want cheap and new, AT&T and T-Mobile based prepaid phones available down at Best Buy and Walmart can be cheap, but network locked. (AT&T and T-Mobile Prepaid branded only - this will not work with other MVNO branded phones like StraightTalk, NET10, etc.) They should work in theory with their prospective network MVNO SIMs, but could potentially be considered a violation of the terms of service bundled with the device. This advice does not apply to Verizon prepaid phones and will not work. I don't recommend this path to anyone unless you're in dire straits for a new emergency handset and all you got is a Walmart, because you'll never be able to carrier unlock the device. Buy something carrier unlocked and used, ideally.

[geekette]

The mention of AT&T shutting down their 3G networks soon strikes fear in my heart.  My 86 year old mom and her twin both use rather ancient LG-B470 flip phones on AT&T via Airvoice.  I'm pretty sure they're 3G only. They will not change phones very easily (and her twin is out of state). 

Any suggestions?

[Dave1442397]

The mention of AT&T shutting down their 3G networks soon strikes fear in my heart.  My 86 year old mom and her twin both use rather ancient LG-B470 flip phones on AT&T via Airvoice.  I'm pretty sure they're 3G only. They will not change phones very easily (and her twin is out of state). 

Any suggestions?

Consumer Cellular. They just shut down 3G at the end of June, and my 92-year-old mother-in-law had a 3G flip phone. They still have a 4G flip phone for sale (it was around $30), which was good, because MIL doesn't do smartphones. We replaced her 3G phone, though she still insists it works and can't understand why we replaced it. My wife said "Fine, you can keep it, just don't expect to talk to anyone!".

[Daley]

Any suggestions?

There aren't many flip phones left. Period. Even when you factor the MVNOs and phones specifically targeted at seniors. Sorry @geekette.

Depending on how old the SIM cards are, it's entirely possible they're pre VoLTE and might need replacing, too... so there may not be much advantage of staying with Airvoice at this point given the $10/month and $30/year call plan options available through Red Pocket, though the $30/year plan is T-Mo only.

If you want to keep them on an AT&T MVNO, your current model choices are:
Cingular Flip IV (HTC U102AA)*
Kyocera DuraXE Epic

If you're willing to go T-Mobile:
Alcatel GoFlip
Alcatel GoFlip 3*
Coolpad Snap

...and Verizon:
Alcatel GoFlip V*
Kazuna eTalk (KAZ-FO19)*

*Available as carrier branded prepaid devices.

Consumer Cellular is also selling the Link II, which is actually the ZTE Z2332, IIUC, though it might not be... hard to dig up info on it. It should, in theory, work on AT&T or T-Mobile, but I'm not 100% on CC's branded device unlocking policy or preferred network SIM the device ships with.

Careful with the Verizon options, given they're primarily sold as Verizon Prepaid phones. So, if you find any, make sure they're carrier unlocked and clean ESN/IMEI able to be activated on any Verizon MVNO.

I have no real recommendations for flip phones anymore for the post VoLTE clusterfark era. All VoLTE phones have terrible battery life. Alcatel is one of the biggest remaining flip phone manufacturers left. Kyocera used to do a lot more flip phones but scaled back to industrial markets (read ruggedized) in that form factor. HTC and ZTE are two of the last remaining big-name flip phone makers, too, but even they're scaling down, and ZTE is technically embargoed these days. After that, all that's really left in this country are the Lively/Jitterbug models which are technically "Lively" carrier locked with plans starting at $15/month for 300 minutes and 10¢/text and money paid to John Walsh to tell you about how amazeballs their panic button phone operators are during reruns of Matlock on TV.

If you give up and lean into the world of Android smartyphones, you can always replace the launcher with BaldPhone.

Pick a network, pick a phone, hope for the best. Do it sooner than later.

[Daley]

I corrected a couple old fart memory errors in my first post in this thread that slid in some factually inaccurate carrier details that didn't change a lick of the actual thrust and point of how screwed up VoLTE interoperability is between carriers in this country. My memory failed me on some key points, and I apologize. In a way, though, the confusion underscores how much of a fragmented hot mess the LTE deployments are in the United States.

Being right doesn't mean much if I screw up being accurate in the process. There's multiple reasons why I don't do many of these sorts of posts at this point anymore.

As I've said before, don't just take my (or anyone else's) word for it. Do your own research.

[Rosy]

Trifele - T-Mobile has a $15 mo international calling plan - unlimited text and phone, no restrictions. I've had it for years since my phone calls to Germany generally are like two hours - yeah well, old people:).

Mint works w T-Mo afaik.
Key is figuring out if the phone she has will work with Mint and T-Mobile.
That would make her plan $15 for Mint and $15 for Int Calls = $30 total mo.

When my friend visited from Germany we just went to the T-Mobile store - the first store was clueless, the second one had her set up in fifteen minutes.
Sim Card Swap and I believe $45 or $50 - plan limited to thirty days. They had cheaper options for longer periods, so I think she would be able to get a very reasonable plan for 6-months or one year. She can always get a plan for say 3-months and if she likes it renew it.
T-Mobile has stores all over Germany.

Also, Facebook - free chat/text and you can send pictures in the chat privately without posting them online.

[alsoknownasDean]

Even with $1000 big band and network support handsets that can be taken "anywhere" with model consolidation, the world still mostly falls and splits into two models with these handsets, Oceania and Eurasia+Africa, and even "international" handsets may run into trouble here in the USA specifically depending on make and manufacturer and chosen network carrier even if the phone has VoLTE Band 12 support.

I'd say it's more handsets for North America (and the Americas in general) differ slightly from almost everywhere else. LTE band 12/13/17 seem to be only really used in North America, whereas most of the rest of the world uses bands 20 or 28 for 700-800MHz LTE.

There's no guarantee that a phone purchased in Europe will work on all bands used by US carriers, especially if it's a lower-end Android device. And of course VoLTE support is a complete crapshoot.

[Trifle]

Thanks @Rosy!  She doesn't need any international calling, but that is very good to know.  I think we are going to go with that for our daughter, who is the exchange student traveling in the opposite direction -- going to Germany for the year.  We were thinking of hooking her up with T Mobile international for one month, just to cover her for the transition.  Then she can set herself up with a new SIM and pay as you go deal there.  My understanding from our exchange student is that those are cheap and easy.  (But of course I'll keep in the back of my mind that our daughter's phone, although an unlocked Android, may run into problems there and she may have to buy a new handset).

[Rosy]

Every phone I've ever owned - which were either T-Mobile or unlocked has worked in Germany.

As for your daughter, in my experience it is cheaper to talk to your carrier here and have them send you a Sim so her phone will be all set up when she gets there.
Germany does have cheap pre-paid phone plans but again in my experience by the time I left I always paid a lot more than I expected. With my phone plan from the states I had everything unlimited and knew exactly what the bill was ahead of time.
I used the GPS and took lots of pics and international calling.

The cheapo pad I bought at T-Mo for reading and because its nice to have a bigger surface worked without a hitch too.
One other nice thing - even the pre-paid SIMcards worked fine when I visited Paris, France. Just got a welcome to France message on my phone - cool:).

[Trifle]

Thanks @Rosy!  Our daughter's phone plan (Republic) doesn't offer any international functions, so she'll either have to switch to a new plan here, or just figure it out when she gets to Germany.  We talked with T-Mobile and the cheapest plan they could offer us that would work for her in Germany was $70 a month -- Uh, hard no.   I think she's just going to get a SIM card in Germany and figure it out.  Good to know that her phone itself will probably be ok.  It's 5 years old though, so we've told her to go ahead and buy a new phone there if she runs into any trouble with it.

For our exchange student living with us in the US, we are leaning toward Red Pocket.  After much research (and help from @Daley) they appeared to have the best combination of price and coverage for our area.  We're in the mountains, so coverage is tricky and spotty. We got a Red Pocket SIM kit, set my husband's phone up with their cheapest $10 a month plan (he volunteered to be the guinea pig) and so far everything is working perfectly.  He even went driving around with it last night just to double check the coverage in the immediate area.  As a bonus, it looks like Red Pocket even includes calling to Germany at no extra charge, if our student ever wants to do that.     

Sincere thanks to everyone who helped with this! 

[Bibimbap]

@Trifele? Your German exchange student, strongly dependent upon their mobile phone model, may have a really bad time trying to use their European smartphone in the United States.

Without knowing the EXACT make and model of the handset in question (and do make sure it's carrier unlocked), it's difficult to provide any meaningful or specific recommendations. I'm not going to talk to you like a five year old, but an adult, and I will try to keep it simple. But there's still a lot of reading to get you up to speed, and I'll try to divide things up for you. Now, let me explain why...


First, a few things to understand as to what's going on currently with the US mobile phone market and access to voice calling:

VoLTE is Voice phone service over LTE data networks. This works very differently than the older 3G voice services that nearly any international handset can handle. The rest of the world is happy to leave those legacy 2G/3G networks operational. Oceania (Americas/Australia/Japan - Pacific Rim) and the USA especially, is in a race to shut down and obsolete legacy networks as quickly as possible. This is probably due to equal parts hubris, planned obsolescence, consumerism, and proprietary infighting. No matter what you attribute it to, the consumer is the loser. Even with $1000 big band and network support handsets that can be taken "anywhere" with model consolidation, the world still mostly falls and splits into two models with these handsets, Oceania and Eurasia+Africa, and even "international" handsets may run into trouble here in the USA specifically depending on make and manufacturer and chosen network carrier even if the phone has VoLTE Band 12 support.

T-Mobile is currently shutting off all their legacy 2G/3G networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only.

AT&T will be shutting off their legacy 3G networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only at the beginning of next year.

Verizon will be shutting off their legacy CDMA networks and pushing phone service to VoLTE only throughout the next year.

VoLTE deployment and handset interoperability in the United States between carriers is an absolute charlie foxtrot, as you'll quickly learn. VoLTE Band 12 is supposed to be the common voice band for the USA and for roaming agreements between carriers (edit: memory error and misprint, I think Band 12 [700MHz C block] was originally intended, but we've gotten Bands 2 and 4 as the common carrier bands for VoLTE roaming which is the same PCS/AWS spectrum that T-Mo notoriously used for GSM 2G/3G voice services for years that had terrible building penetration and forced them to be the first US adopter of Voice over WiFi a decade ago until they shut it off last year), but roaming access to Band 12 any of these bands isn't the same as native network access...

AT&T primarily uses a basic, internationally compatible VoLTE implementation on multiple LTE bands (mostly 2 and 12). However, they've set up basic VoLTE access to whitelisted IMEI (phone serial number) handsets only, which means AT&T only branded handsets. They're notorious for not supporting fully compatible international handsets from working on their network thus far, despite being able to work, because their IMEI isn't on the list. There are ways around this, but it requires a postpaid AT&T account, and being technical enough to know what model handset (that's actually reasonably close to what you actually have) to lie to the AT&T rep to get the IMEI manually accepted and added to their whitelist. So, even if you stuck in an AT&T SIM card today and the phone works today (which it likely would given their 3G network still being operational), it will likely stop working in under five months.

T-Mobile primarily uses LTE Band 12 (a commonly supported international LTE data band supported on international handsets), however, their VoLTE implementation is proprietary and requires VoLTE software "certification". As an example, aftermarket Android ROMs like LineageOS that even support and easily do VoLTE calling in the rest of the world rarely ever work on T-Mobile, even if VoLTE worked on the handset with T-Mobile before flashing a new OS onto the phone. Because of this, many "international" Android handsets actually might not work on T-Mobile in the United States. This said, with the student from Germany, it's possible they're already on T-Mobile there and bought their handset from T-Mobile Germany. This increases odds of compatibility specifically for them.

Verizon uses bog standard VoLTE implementations for their voice services, so no hinky stuff like IMEI whitelists or proprietary "certification" and implementation. Unfortunately, LTE Band 13 is used for most of their voice services and for SIM activation. This isn't to say there aren't patches in their network that don't offer Band 12 coverage (they're mostly urban) (edit: lol, error in my brain and LTE band cheat sheet, Verizon has no Band 12 spectrum, I was thinking of USCC the other remaining CDMA network - sorry, I'm getting old and the memory isn't what it used to be) but to activate a SIM card for service and to get regular network coverage for making calls, you need a handset that specifically has LTE Band 13. There are only four countries (and barely more carriers than the country count) that even use LTE Band 13: USA, Canada, Bolivia, and Belize. So, there's that.

Awkward growing pains and all that. I'm hoping they'll all stop with these shenanigans after they all fully transition over to VoLTE and shut off the legacy networks and just let phones be taken from network to network again once carrier unlocked like back in the GSM 2G/3G days, but where's the fun and profit in not forcing people to buy new handsets when switching carriers by preventing network interoperability through minor technical loopholes.


"Why does this matter? Don't kids these days just use data and video chat and internet based communications apps like Zoom and WhatsApp?" I can hear someone say. You bring it up yourself. Two Words: Emergency Services. 911 phone support isn't the worst idea (especially with a callback number available to dispatchers), and the VoLTE implementation here appears to be really cocking up that whole guaranteed access to 911, even without a SIM card, that mobile handsets are supposed to have... though I'm digressing a bit.

Bottom line, if the phone won't work here in the USA with one of the big three, the phone won't work, and you'll probably have to pick up a new handset for them. So, be prepared for that possibility.

Unrelated and secondary to the big elephant of network compatibility, another consideration might be international calling and texting support by the phone plan itself so the kid has a way of keeping in touch with friends and family back home by means other than internet based apps only, for both safety and convenience reasons related to potential emergency situations. I know it's being skirted "to save money", but the savings aren't that much to have versus not have. Even with congested data traffic, actual VoLTE calls and SMS messages are going to be prioritized over common data access during a larger crisis. Not all MVNOs have international text and calling support, and some have more than others depending on the country in question. So, something else to keep in mind while shopping as well.


So, TL;DR: T-Mobile based MVNOs with good international calling and texting plans might be your best option if your exchange student's handset is from T-Mobile back home or is known to already work on T-Mobile here in the States, but it's still a crapshoot without researching for compatibility first. Also, buying a full year prepaid plan could be a good way to save some cash if you're willing to take the risk. But it's critical to know if the phone is going to work at all in the first place. T-Mo based MVNOs can potentially be the cheapest of the big three these days, too. This said, if you don't have great T-Mo coverage, go with the network that has the best coverage in your area. And if you need a new phone and you already have a phone for another network for cheap/free that has VoLTE support, go with the network that phone supports.

With this in mind, I will make an MVNO recommendation. Red Pocket offers plans on all three networks, sells a $10 SIM card kit with SIM cards provided for all three networks and their month to month "unlimited" calling prices are still some of the cheapest you'll find on all three networks. They also offer international direct dial and unlimited minutes to Germany (land lines) and limited minutes (29-105 depending on network) to cellphones with their unlimited calling plans. This path guarantees a single recommendation provider that will have a SIM card that'll work on whatever network/device has to be used, and provides international calling to boot. You'll be looking at around $240 plus tax and fees for the year at the baseline for an "unlimited" plan billed monthly ($180 for the year through the eBay store), but there are cheaper options.

If a really small plan is on the table, Red Pocket has a 500 minute 500 SMS and 500MB plan on all three networks for $10/month, or their $99 annual plan sold through their Ebay store that provides 1000 minutes, unlimited texts and 1GB of data. I believe the international calling is limited with these plans, however.


Last thought as it's been mentioned by others: Be aware of Mint's actual prices, and note that they charge extra per minute on calls to Germany. Those alluring per month prices that you're advertised on the intro three months are only the annual plan pricing for calls to the US/Canada/Mexico. Otherwise, their prices are just about equal to or more expensive per month to Red Pocket. It doesn't make financial sense to use them in this situation unless you're 100% certain a T-Mo MVNO will work, and you're willing to agree to their terms and services and be potentially willing to lose the balance of any money paid if they decide to terminate the account early for vague and dubious usage "abuse" like too much data of a certain type or too many calls... which, honestly, read the legal contracts with any provider you use as any provider promising "unlimited" anything will have various gotchas. The risk just gets dicier with pre-paying service months in advance.

Minimum price through Mint will be $180 plus tax and fees and per minute fees to Germany if you buy a full year up front, otherwise, the cheapest you'll get on their cheapest plan without paying for three or more unneeded months will be $240 plus tax and fees, or buying 15 months will be $225 plus tax and fees.

Edited because I forgot about the $180 annual plan from RedPocket.
Edited again because my memory and notes are a little fuzzy at this point, and a couple details were wrong... nothing that changes the reality of VoLTE interoperability in this country, but wrong none the less. Sorry about that.

With Mint you get 4GB/month of data vs only 3GB/month with Red Pocket. So it's not a fair comparison. The student is coming for a year, so why not buy 12 month plan?  It will cost $15/month. Much better value than Red Pocket. And you get 7 day free trial. SO if you don't like it nothing is lost. The student is not interested in making phone calls to Germany so why use that as a selling point? And for this "potentially willing to lose the balance of any money paid if they decide to terminate the account early for vague and dubious usage "abuse" like too much data of a certain type or too many calls... which, honestly, read the legal contracts with any provider you use as any provider promising "unlimited" anything will have various gotchas. The risk just gets dicier with pre-paying service months in advance." This person is not asking for unlimited plan, so why scare them by even posting this statement? And besides, there is not a single post on the internet stating this has even happened to anyone.

[Trifle]

@Bibimbap -- I hear you about the value, but turns out there is poor coverage in our area with Mint. 

[Rosy]

Thanks @Rosy!  Our daughter's phone plan (Republic) doesn't offer any international functions, so she'll either have to switch to a new plan here, or just figure it out when she gets to Germany.  We talked with T-Mobile and the cheapest plan they could offer us that would work for her in Germany was $70 a month -- Uh, hard no.   I think she's just going to get a SIM card in Germany and figure it out.  Good to know that her phone itself will probably be ok.  It's 5 years old though, so we've told her to go ahead and buy a new phone there if she runs into any trouble with it.

For our exchange student living with us in the US, we are leaning toward Red Pocket.  After much research (and help from @Daley) they appeared to have the best combination of price and coverage for our area.  We're in the mountains, so coverage is tricky and spotty. We got a Red Pocket SIM kit, set my husband's phone up with their cheapest $10 a month plan (he volunteered to be the guinea pig) and so far everything is working perfectly.  He even went driving around with it last night just to double check the coverage in the immediate area.  As a bonus, it looks like Red Pocket even includes calling to Germany at no extra charge, if our student ever wants to do that.     

Sincere thanks to everyone who helped with this!

Red Pocket sounds awesome. Never heard of it but now I'll have to check into it, thanks so much.
I'm being a real bad Mustachian right now flirting with one of the cool new phones.

(Mr. R. will take my old phone since mine is still fine but I hate it.)

[Daley]

With Mint you get 4GB/month of data vs only 3GB/month with Red Pocket. So it's not a fair comparison. It will cost $15/month. Much better value than Red Pocket. [...] And besides, there is not a single post on the internet stating this has even happened to anyone.

And with US Mobile you can get 5GB and "unlimited" everything else for $15/month on either T-Mobile or Verizon's network, without paying a year in advance, and without half the legal agreements Mint boilerplates. And with T-Mobile prepaid, $15/month paid month to month gets you "unlimited" with 2.5GB of data and an increased data cap of 4.5GB by 2025 and a higher network pecking order than any T-Mobile based MVNO provides. And with Red Pocket, you can still buy that $20/month plan for a full year in advance for $180, or $15/month.

Frankly, if you can't get 2.5GB to work in a month, you're probably not going to be able to comfortably get even 5GB to work with the additional network throttling and shaping that many T-Mo MVNOs impose, either. It's close enough to compare for horse shoes and hand grenades, as they say. And any plan from any provider that places no hard data caps or calling/texting caps are technically considered "unlimited" plans, and those "unlimited" claims always come with an asterisk... and every plan Mint sells has some form of "unlimited" attached to it.

There's more to selecting things than just "MORE!" for less. Other metrics matter, too... like whether the target network even has coverage at the user's house, and having network services available that may accommodate unforeseen and unplanned situations even if said person doesn't immediately see that value, and having the freedom to change and adjust the plan you're using.

You're right, though. Mint's never terminated an account as far as I've seen and remember in (recent) memory, either. Doesn't mean they haven't reserved the rights to do so, and reserved rights are the legal equivalent of Chekhov's gun.

It's not that there aren't happy Mint users out there, but the bad experiences and outliers speak more to any provider's practices than the happy reviews. This is why I recommend actually reading the legally binding contracts you sign up for with any provider, and do due diligence on research with them and checking coverage maps if you're unsure about coverage on a new mobile network before even paying a single penny, let alone 99x that amount. That's not fear mongering, that's being reasonably informed.

[Daley]

We got a Red Pocket SIM kit, set my husband's phone up with their cheapest $10 a month plan (he volunteered to be the guinea pig) and so far everything is working perfectly.

Excellent to hear!

[Bibimbap]

With Mint you get 4GB/month of data vs only 3GB/month with Red Pocket. So it's not a fair comparison. It will cost $15/month. Much better value than Red Pocket. [...] And besides, there is not a single post on the internet stating this has even happened to anyone.

And with US Mobile you can get 5GB and "unlimited" everything else for $15/month on either T-Mobile or Verizon's network, without paying a year in advance, and without half the legal agreements Mint boilerplates. And with T-Mobile prepaid, $15/month paid month to month gets you "unlimited" with 2.5GB of data and an increased data cap of 4.5GB by 2025 and a higher network pecking order than any T-Mobile based MVNO provides. And with Red Pocket, you can still buy that $20/month plan for a full year in advance for $180, or $15/month.

Frankly, if you can't get 2.5GB to work in a month, you're probably not going to be able to comfortably get even 5GB to work with the additional network throttling and shaping that many T-Mo MVNOs impose, either. It's close enough to compare for horse shoes and hand grenades, as they say. And any plan from any provider that places no hard data caps or calling/texting caps are technically considered "unlimited" plans, and those "unlimited" claims always come with an asterisk... and every plan Mint sells has some form of "unlimited" attached to it.

There's more to selecting things than just "MORE!" for less. Other metrics matter, too... like whether the target network even has coverage at the user's house, and having network services available that may accommodate unforeseen and unplanned situations even if said person doesn't immediately see that value, and having the freedom to change and adjust the plan you're using.

You're right, though. Mint's never terminated an account as far as I've seen and remember in (recent) memory, either. Doesn't mean they haven't reserved the rights to do so, and reserved rights are the legal equivalent of Chekhov's gun.

It's not that there aren't happy Mint users out there, but the bad experiences and outliers speak more to any provider's practices than the happy reviews. This is why I recommend actually reading the legally binding contracts you sign up for with any provider, and do due diligence on research with them and checking coverage maps if you're unsure about coverage on a new mobile network before even paying a single penny, let alone 99x that amount. That's not fear mongering, that's being reasonably informed.

US Mobile looks good. $15 for 5GB data per month, seems like a good deal.  I don't see how the other plans you mentioned compare if you get less for the same amount.  Look, I'll switch in a heartbeat, I don't care for Mint, I'm just asking why you recommend something that's less "value" for the same price. Why would you mention $15/month prepaid T-mobile plan if it's 2.5GB/month, what's so special about it if it gives you less for the same price? How do I get that $20/month plan for a full year in advance for $180 from Red Pocket? I can't find it on their website.
"Frankly, if you can't get 2.5GB to work in a month, you're probably not going to be able to comfortably get even 5GB to work with the additional network throttling and shaping that many T-Mo MVNOs impose, either." Why do you say that?  I'm fine with 4GB, 3GB is not enough but I've never gone over 4GB, so what am I missing?

And of course you get a plan that has a coverage in your area, I never disputed that. I only compared data amount you get as the OP said that making phone calls wasn't a priority.

[Daley]

US Mobile looks good. $15 for 5GB data per month, seems like a good deal.  I don't see how the other plans you mentioned compare if you get less for the same amount.  Look, I'll switch in a heartbeat, I don't care for Mint, I'm just asking why you recommend something that's less "value" for the same price. Why would you mention $15/month prepaid T-mobile plan if it's 2.5GB/month, what's so special about it if it gives you less for the same price?

There is more to carrier selection than raw numbers that look good on paper. Not everyone's "unlimited" is the same on the calling and texting end. Not all data plans are equal. I pointed this out in the very posts you already quoted and elsewhere in this thread. It's more than just quantity, it's also priority at the tower, priority on the network, how much are they overselling and under promising to try and look better than the competition. There's a pecking order to traffic: Post-paid, roaming, prepaid, and MVNO at the bottom. There's a pecking order to packet priority, too: SMS, Voice, and Data. There are soft agreements on what is and isn't acceptable traffic, and how much is allowed of any particular type before it's throttled. This is why you have to read the terms of service agreements, and when you have plans that are tap dancing on prices that make you question how a reseller is able to offer a plan with more than what the network owner is selling at that same price point, it should make you sit up and ask, "why?" and, "how?"

You'll find those answers in the terms of service agreements and the negative experience reviews of the providers in question. MVNOs have a history of over promising on data while hiding their gutting of voice and SMS services. They also will cut corners on technical support. I don't see US Mobile's 5GB and "unlimited" everything else as a "good deal", I see it as too good to be true, because MVNO profit margins are tight, and corners had to be cut somewhere to make those numbers happen... otherwise every MVNO would be able to offer the exact same packages.

How do I get that $20/month plan for a full year in advance for $180 from Red Pocket? I can't find it on their website.

Again, already answered in a post you literally quoted. It's offered on their Ebay store linked off the plans page. But even as a Red Pocket user, I'm not inclined to recommend prepaid annual service plans, and if you're willing to ignore that advice anyway, never spend more on an annual plan than you're willing to potentially lose after only one month of service.

Speaking of their plans page, for crying out loud, their plans have been a moving target lately. They're now offering 3GB of data and "unlimited" talk and text on either the AT&T or T-Mobile network for $10/month, and have a $15/month 10GB plan. Oof. I can't keep up with this mishugas anymore. But yet, this is another example and reason why it's a bad idea to commit to a year of prepaid in advance. Edit: lol, nevermind, I just noticed it's bait and switch intro rate pricing for the first month, like Mint does quoting annual plan price averages for the monthly rate on their main page. This is new... like today new, and it's confusing. Blecch. But the point about new deals opening up being a good reason why it's a bad idea to commit to an annual plan still stands.

"Frankly, if you can't get 2.5GB to work in a month, you're probably not going to be able to comfortably get even 5GB to work with the additional network throttling and shaping that many T-Mo MVNOs impose, either." Why do you say that?  I'm fine with 4GB, 3GB is not enough but I've never gone over 4GB, so what am I missing?

Data priority on T-Mobile MVNOs, especially with non-standard traffic in congested network traffic cities can be... gnarly... at times, especially past the 2.5GB threshold from what I've historically noted.  Better to optimize and minimize data usage so you can use less, which opens up choices that cut fewer corners than take from the provider that's over-promising.

And of course you get a plan that has a coverage in your area, I never disputed that. I only compared data amount you get as the OP said that making phone calls wasn't a priority.

I think you misread. Domestic calls were actually more of a priority than you seem to realize. And I quote:

She wants to get a local number and have a medium amount of data and calling.

Knowing first hand the packet priority at the towers for MVNOs, combine that with a crisis or emergency that impacts a region? Data dies before direct dial calling. That means WhatsApp texts and calls on an MVNO are likely to error out before direct dial calling dies on the tower.

I hope this lifts your confusion, though I don't feel like I wrote anything new in this thread.

[Bibimbap]

US Mobile looks good. $15 for 5GB data per month, seems like a good deal.  I don't see how the other plans you mentioned compare if you get less for the same amount.  Look, I'll switch in a heartbeat, I don't care for Mint, I'm just asking why you recommend something that's less "value" for the same price. Why would you mention $15/month prepaid T-mobile plan if it's 2.5GB/month, what's so special about it if it gives you less for the same price?

There is more to carrier selection than raw numbers that look good on paper. Not everyone's "unlimited" is the same on the calling and texting end. Not all data plans are equal. I pointed this out in the very posts you already quoted and elsewhere in this thread. It's more than just quantity, it's also priority at the tower, priority on the network, how much are they overselling and under promising to try and look better than the competition. There's a pecking order to traffic: Post-paid, roaming, prepaid, and MVNO at the bottom. There's a pecking order to packet priority, too: SMS, Voice, and Data. There are soft agreements on what is and isn't acceptable traffic, and how much is allowed of any particular type before it's throttled. This is why you have to read the terms of service agreements, and when you have plans that are tap dancing on prices that make you question how a reseller is able to offer a plan with more than what the network owner is selling at that same price point, it should make you sit up and ask, "why?" and, "how?"

You'll find those answers in the terms of service agreements and the negative experience reviews of the providers in question. MVNOs have a history of over promising on data while hiding their gutting of voice and SMS services. They also will cut corners on technical support. I don't see US Mobile's 5GB and "unlimited" everything else as a "good deal", I see it as too good to be true, because MVNO profit margins are tight, and corners had to be cut somewhere to make those numbers happen... otherwise every MVNO would be able to offer the exact same packages.

How do I get that $20/month plan for a full year in advance for $180 from Red Pocket? I can't find it on their website.

Again, already answered in a post you literally quoted. It's offered on their Ebay store linked off the plans page. But even as a Red Pocket user, I'm not inclined to recommend prepaid annual service plans, and if you're willing to ignore that advice anyway, never spend more on an annual plan than you're willing to potentially lose after only one month of service.

Speaking of their plans page, for crying out loud, their plans have been a moving target lately. They're now offering 3GB of data and "unlimited" talk and text on either the AT&T or T-Mobile network for $10/month, and have a $15/month 10GB plan. Oof. I can't keep up with this mishugas anymore. But yet, this is another example and reason why it's a bad idea to commit to a year of prepaid in advance. Edit: lol, nevermind, I just noticed it's bait and switch intro rate pricing for the first month, like Mint does quoting annual plan price averages for the monthly rate on their main page. This is new... like today new, and it's confusing. Blecch. But the point about new deals opening up being a good reason why it's a bad idea to commit to an annual plan still stands.

"Frankly, if you can't get 2.5GB to work in a month, you're probably not going to be able to comfortably get even 5GB to work with the additional network throttling and shaping that many T-Mo MVNOs impose, either." Why do you say that?  I'm fine with 4GB, 3GB is not enough but I've never gone over 4GB, so what am I missing?

Data priority on T-Mobile MVNOs, especially with non-standard traffic in congested network traffic cities can be... gnarly... at times, especially past the 2.5GB threshold from what I've historically noted.  Better to optimize and minimize data usage so you can use less, which opens up choices that cut fewer corners than take from the provider that's over-promising.

And of course you get a plan that has a coverage in your area, I never disputed that. I only compared data amount you get as the OP said that making phone calls wasn't a priority.

I think you misread. Domestic calls were actually more of a priority than you seem to realize. And I quote:

She wants to get a local number and have a medium amount of data and calling.

Knowing first hand the packet priority at the towers for MVNOs, combine that with a crisis or emergency that impacts a region? Data dies before direct dial calling. That means WhatsApp texts and calls on an MVNO are likely to error out before direct dial calling dies on the tower.

I hope this lifts your confusion, though I don't feel like I wrote anything new in this thread.

No it doesn't lift my confusion. Still can't find the $20/month plan for $180 on Red Pocket Ebay page https://www.redpocket.com/plans/ebay?utm_source=planspage&utm_content=banner
All this talk about packing and priority at the tower etc. at the end of the day, I don't care because I have not noticed any difference on my end. I'm in the major US metropolitan area, and I have not noticed any congestion. Why do you think I should cut down on data usage? I'm not experiencing any issues. And why will I lose money if I prepay for the entire year?  That's still unclear to me.

[geekette]

No it doesn't lift my confusion. Still can't find the $20/month plan for $180 on Red Pocket Ebay page https://www.redpocket.com/plans/ebay?utm_source=planspage&utm_content=banner
All this talk about packing and priority at the tower etc. at the end of the day, I don't care because I have not noticed any difference on my end. I'm in the major US metropolitan area, and I have not noticed any congestion. Why do you think I should cut down on data usage? I'm not experiencing any issues. And why will I lose money if I prepay for the entire year?  That's still unclear to me.

The plan that shows $10/month on Red Pocket’s website (3G/mo) is $20/month after the first month ($240/year not counting the discounted one off month). On their eBay page, its $15/mo ($180/year)

I believe Daley’s saying that you have the potential to lose your money because MVNOs can just go out of business.

[Daley]

No it doesn't lift my confusion. Still can't find the $20/month plan for $180 on Red Pocket Ebay page https://www.redpocket.com/plans/ebay?utm_source=planspage&utm_content=banner (EDITED TO FIX LINK)
All this talk about packing and priority at the tower etc. at the end of the day, I don't care because I have not noticed any difference on my end. I'm in the major US metropolitan area, and I have not noticed any congestion. Why do you think I should cut down on data usage? I'm not experiencing any issues. And why will I lose money if I prepay for the entire year?  That's still unclear to me.

Over the past eight months, you claim you and your spouse are both actively working and contributing to IRA and 401k accounts, that your living father owns an S corp, and that you're currently 85 years old and retired 20 years ago. Now this.

I'm done responding in good faith, especially when you post a URL link to a KProxy page hidden behind the actual proper RedPocket URL that contains the very plan you claim you can't find. That takes effort.

Have a good day.

[Bibimbap]

No it doesn't lift my confusion. Still can't find the $20/month plan for $180 on Red Pocket Ebay page https://www.redpocket.com/plans/ebay?utm_source=planspage&utm_content=banner
All this talk about packing and priority at the tower etc. at the end of the day, I don't care because I have not noticed any difference on my end. I'm in the major US metropolitan area, and I have not noticed any congestion. Why do you think I should cut down on data usage? I'm not experiencing any issues. And why will I lose money if I prepay for the entire year?  That's still unclear to me.

The plan that shows $10/month on Red Pocket’s website (3G/mo) is $20/month after the first month ($240/year not counting the discounted one off month). On their eBay page, its $15/mo ($180/year)

I believe Daley’s saying that you have the potential to lose your money because MVNOs can just go out of business.

Thanks but that's not the $20 plan for $180. Got it about potentially losing money. Thank you.

[Bibimbap]

No it doesn't lift my confusion. Still can't find the $20/month plan for $180 on Red Pocket Ebay page https://www.redpocket.com/plans/ebay?utm_source=planspage&utm_content=banner (EDITED TO FIX LINK)
All this talk about packing and priority at the tower etc. at the end of the day, I don't care because I have not noticed any difference on my end. I'm in the major US metropolitan area, and I have not noticed any congestion. Why do you think I should cut down on data usage? I'm not experiencing any issues. And why will I lose money if I prepay for the entire year?  That's still unclear to me.

Over the past eight months, you claim you and your spouse are both actively working and contributing to IRA and 401k accounts, that your living father owns an S corp, and that you're currently 85 years old and retired 20 years ago. Now this.

I'm done responding in good faith, especially when you post a URL link to a KProxy page hidden behind the actual proper RedPocket URL that contains the very plan you claim you can't find. That takes effort.

Have a good day.

Not sure how my other posts are relevant to this discussion. That's a lousy way of attacking me. Look, I'm helping a lot of people with their finances, so what harm is it that I post their questions for them?  A lot of them are old and have no access to the internet.  None of the questions I posted are false, and I hope they also help others. Just like this plan for $180 that is normally $20 a month I could recommend to someone, except that I still can't find it. Geekete posted a link but that's not the $20 plan, the $20 plan gives you 22GB/month of data and this one only gives you 3GB/month.  Not sure, what went wrong with my link.

[Trifle]

Just wanted to add — the recent discussion here led me to also order a SIM kit from US Mobile, to test their coverage.  (They say their coverage here is decent, but we’ll test it and compare it to Red Pocket).

Thanks everyone again for the help. 

[geekette]

Plenty of people post questions for other people.  It's when you post as other people, apparently multiple times, that you lose credibility.

Two people have explained Red Pocket's listing their monthly plans at half price for the first month only.  I guess they're hoping lots of people have reading comprehension deficits. 

[Trifle]

Plenty of people post questions for other people.  It's when you post as other people, apparently multiple times, that you lose credibility.

Two people have explained Red Pocket's listing their monthly plans at half price for the first month only.  I guess they're hoping lots of people have reading comprehension deficits.

@geekette — I’m assuming this is directed at someone other than me?

[geekette]

Of course. Directly above your post.

[Trifle]

Kk. Thanks for clarifying.

[Daley]

Just wanted to add — the recent discussion here led me to also order a SIM kit from US Mobile, to test their coverage.  (They say their coverage here is decent, but we’ll test it and compare it to Red Pocket).

Pro tip: Reception and coverage with one MVNO on a specific network is going to be identical to reception and coverage on another MVNO on a specific network. So, a Red Pocket CDMA SIM card is going to give you the exact same network reception as US Mobile's Super LTE SIM card, as both are using Verizon's network without roaming. And a Red Pocket GSMT SIM card is going to give you the exact same network reception as a US Mobile GSM LTE SIM card as is a Mint Mobile SIM card, as all are using T-Mobile's network without roaming. Same story with Red Pocket GSMA, H2O Wireless, Airvoice, and Puretalk USA (just as examples) as they're all AT&T based.

Data shaping and throttling policies may change between MVNOs even on the same host mobile network, as will what defines an "unlimited" amount of calling and texting or "excessive" data usage or usage of data with potentially forbidden usage on their network like VPN and proxy services or WiFi tethering if that asterisk is present, before they potentially exercise their right to take your remaining unused balance and your phone number for ToS violations if found in violation, with or without prior notification... but actual tower reception will be identical.

The exception to this coverage rule only lay with MVNOs that buy network access with roaming agreements, like Consumer Cellular and Ting's T-Mobile SIM. Then, the coverage and reception map should, in theory, be identical to postpaid network coverage from the host network, or prepaid plans from the host network branded under the carrier's own brand like AT&T Prepaid or T-Mobile Prepaid.

I believe Daley’s saying that you have the potential to lose your money because MVNOs can just go out of business.

I've seen more MVNOs than I care to count over the years that either did or did not look distressed simply vanish overnight, and people loosing phone numbers and money to the ether, or maybe only having a 72 hour window to port said number out. The field of MVNOs is littered with those corporate corpses.

I've seen MNOs (the host network) randomly terminate wholesale agreements with MVNOs without notice, like the first time Red Pocket carried T-Mobile SIM cards a few years back. I've also seen that situation play out in ways where the MVNO is scrambling to move customers to a new host network or simply just shut down from those actions, and would be unsurprised if the venn diagram between the first and second things here had overlap with many MVNO deaths.

I've seen MVNOs get bought out and either turned upside down, or suddenly had new leadership with terms of service being enforced with a draconian hand, which should be of interest given the rumors flying about Altice USA possibly being in talks to purchase Mint from Ultra.

I've seen MNOs suddenly decide to drastically drop their wholesale network access prices after having some of the highest prices in the industry, like AT&T did a few years back, or Sprint's fire-sale levels of wholesale pricing a few year prior when their postpaid market was drying up to prop up subscriber numbers and Softbank started looking to offload them. And inversely, we now have the Tracfone buyout from Verizon greenlit, which means literally 2/3rds of the entire United States MVNO customers across all three major networks from the only 800lb gorilla in the room, that pressured wholesale price drops on ALL the networks, is now going to be owned by the same wireless network that historically has been the least friendly to MVNO wholesalers, historically charged the highest wholesale rates with the most restrictive policies, and historically charged the highest prices of the lot for both their postpaid and prepaid plans... and now the company that put the most pressure on all three major carriers to even consider lowering mobile prices in this country will be owned by one of the three in a country that literally has no common carrier laws demanding wholesale network access and fair pricing to keep competition alive.

And that's not even factoring personal level applications. These are plans without a prorated refund. You might have to suddenly move due to unforeseen events and switch networks due to reception issues, or due to network congestion issues that develop in your area on that network or plague that new region you now call home. Your usage needs might change and either go drastically up or drastically down, due to unforeseen events... like, say, a pandemic.

Things can change fast in the MVNO space and in life.

Not sure how my other posts are relevant to this discussion. That's a lousy way of attacking me. Look, I'm helping a lot of people with their finances, so what harm is it that I post their questions for them?  A lot of them are old and have no access to the internet.  None of the questions I posted are false, and I hope they also help others. Just like this plan for $180 that is normally $20 a month I could recommend to someone, except that I still can't find it. Geekete posted a link but that's not the $20 plan, the $20 plan gives you 22GB/month of data and this one only gives you 3GB/month.  Not sure, what went wrong with my link.

Okay, I'll play one last time.

First, the Red Pocket links. Yes, it is. The links that Geekette posted and the link I fixed from your post. ALL OF THESE have the plan in question, Geekette was even kind enough to directly link the monthly plan on the website itself and the annual plan on Ebay. 3GB of high speed data, "unlimited" talk and text through Red Pocket on any of their network supported SIM cards, be it GSMA (AT&T), GSMT (T-Mobile), CDMA (Verizon), or inexplicably still CDMAS (Sprint) on the eBay end, despite T-Mobile planning on shuttering the remainder of that network early next year. $20/month, month to month with a $10 discount on the first month currently presented in very confusing terms on their website right now, or $180/year through eBay which works out to $15/month.

Edited to add: The "$20 plan gives you 22GB/month of data" plan you're looking at is actually $40/month with the first month half price ($20), and the "equivalent" annual plan for that is their $360/year ($30/month) 20GB plan... which ironically highlights one of the points I've made about pricing and tricky marketing forcing you to read the fine print. Granted, at 20GB/month, an extra 2GB is still in theory an extra 2GB, but it's only 10% of an already heavy data usage level... but the annual plan is locked into that 20GB a month while the $40 month to month people automatically got an extra 2GB of data added to their service plan. Granted, the 25% discount is more significant than the 10% data increase, but that's still focusing on the wrong thing. Less is more. The less you consume, the less you need to spend, the less you're dependent upon something, the more freedom you gain. I remember when 2GB of mobile data was indulgent excess, and there's a lot of folks around these parts comfortably still getting by on only 500MB a month, or less. It's not hard to do, either. Use WiFi when you're home or provided it at work, download maps in advance on WiFi, and don't stream media on your mobile plan.

But let's capitalize on your confusion and pretend. What if the 3GB plan actually was now $10/month, month to month, and you already paid $180 for the year for that same plan a week before in an effort to save $5/month from the old $20/month price that offered the same thing? Sorry, no refunds. It sucks, right? Something quite so extreme in price shifting is unlikely to actually happen, but that's yet another potential problem with annual plans.

As for how it's relevant? It goes toward your credibility. Let's take your statement here at face value, though. You did not make it clear that you were asking for other people. You posted as if you were them, which is a form of dishonesty. That damages your credibility, and makes posts like yours in this thread look like bad faith arguments.

You're also accessing and posting to these forums using a proxy server, which raises questions like, "Has this person's home IP address been permabanned due to trolling and abusive behavior in the past on another account, and they're using Kproxy to evade that ban against forum policy?" It certainly crossed my mind, especially since your posting style reminds me of someone from the past who fits that description. They, too, loved to quote entire walls of text without editing and cleanup, and then ask ridiculous questions that already had answers in the posts they quoted at the end, and did obtuse "this doesn't exist" games, or took self centered positions where if something didn't happen to them then said things never happen despite rafters of evidence to the contrary. A lot of weird people get off on playing really weird games trying to mess with others on the internet, and we've seen more than our fair share in this community, many with similar posting patterns.

I, too, am just here at this point to occasionally try to help people not get burned on this end of things. Otherwise, I don't truck much with the values rattling around in the forums here these days. If what you said is genuinely true, and you really are that confused and oblivious despite tips of the hat that show you to be more than competent? My sincerest apologies, and I'm done trying to help you. Although what I've posted is valuable for Trifele to understand, at this point, it feels like her thread is being hijacked, so I'm bowing out.


@Trifele best of luck with the new plans! Glad I was able to help, and your family looks poised to be able to get out from under the bad deal and network coverage at Republic without replacing hardware, along with finding a plan that'll work for your guest. My apologies if any of my brusqueness in any post spilled over.

[Paul der Krake]

I don't have any novel advice on the MVNO front, but I can assure you that if you're getting the median German teen, 99.99% of their communications with their existing peer group back home is going to be through Whatsapp, not SMS.

[Trifle]

I don't have any novel advice on the MVNO front, but I can assure you that if you're getting the median German teen, 99.99% of their communications with their existing peer group back home is going to be through Whatsapp, not SMS.

Agreed!

[Trifle]

Just wanted to add — the recent discussion here led me to also order a SIM kit from US Mobile, to test their coverage.  (They say their coverage here is decent, but we’ll test it and compare it to Red Pocket).

Pro tip: Reception and coverage with one MVNO on a specific network is going to be identical to reception and coverage on another MVNO on a specific network. So, a Red Pocket CDMA SIM card is going to give you the exact same network reception as US Mobile's Super LTE SIM card, as both are using Verizon's network without roaming. And a Red Pocket GSMT SIM card is going to give you the exact same network reception as a US Mobile GSM LTE SIM card as is a Mint Mobile SIM card, as all are using T-Mobile's network without roaming. Same story with Red Pocket GSMA, H2O Wireless, Airvoice, and Puretalk USA (just as examples) as they're all AT&T. . .

 My apologies if any of my brusqueness in any post spilled over.

Oh!  I guess I don’t need to do that experiment then.  Thanks!

And not at all @Daley — you’ve been very helpful. Thank you again. 

[Daley]

And not at all @Daley — you’ve been very helpful. Thank you again.

Yup, yup. Glad to help.

And please, I don't disagree with the Whatsapp thing. I'm just inclined towards a little bit of safety net for wireless communications given how I know MVNOs work in this country, and what happens to the people here in a mass crisis. As a holdout on a dead phone platform, 99% of my own and my wife's communication is through Telegram, but I wouldn't trust or use it in a crisis, because I have a better chance of getting a timely direct dial call or SMS message through than any message sent on Telegram.