Case Study: Tell Me I'm Stupid For Considering Quitting My Job and Moving

[Random Poster]

Full disclosure:  I am a member on the Bogleheads forum, and I posted (more or less) the exact same post below there. One of the members of that forum suggested that I post my query here, and so I am.

To the extent that it is helpful:

Income: Base salary is $188k. With bonuses and RSUs, it can be $250k

Assets: Roughly $1.89 million, give or take on any given day.  Asset allocation, if you take out our cash holdings, is 60/40 stock:bond, all invested in (roughly) 3 Vanguard index funds: total stock market, total international stock market, and total bond market.

Debt:  None.

Other information is contained in the below post. It is hard to give accurate to-date expense numbers, given out factual situation, but the monthly averages noted below are correct.

---

So here is my post:

I need some advice and wisdom.

Long story short: 

I have been incredibly lucky over the past few years. I had a cushy expat job assignment in Canada, where I was able to save lots of money.  I didn't overly enjoy the job, but I loved the city in which we lived and that made things tolerable.  I have now been repatriated to the US, to a place where I don't want to be and doing a job that I don't really want to be doing.

I'm 37. My wife is 34.  We have roughly $975K in a taxable investment account (mostly Total Stock Market and Total International Market), $500K in tax deferred accounts (all in bonds), and $415K in US cash.  We probably have around $20K in cash in various small accounts (some of which is in foreign currency), but I don't really count any of that right now in our net worth.  We don't own anything other than a car, furniture, and assorted household goods.

All of our furniture and household goods are currently packed in moving crates and are en route to our current location.  We are currently living in temporary housing, waiting for our (proposed) apartment in our new location to be released from construction, which is scheduled to occur in mid-May.

If I leave my employer before the end of one year from the date that I entered the US, I have to pay back certain relocation costs, although I have no idea what those specific costs are or their amount (they do not include the moving of our goods back to the US, nor our personal costs involved in returning to the US; they would, however, include a relocation bonus that I have yet to receive and probably our temporary housing costs).  That said, by the end of May, I should net around $30K from various RSU grants that I am due to receive.  Using some rough math, I figure that if I stayed around to May (and stayed in temporary housing and never moved into our apartment here), I would net out around $20K or so from the stock ($30K less $10K--which is just a guess--from the repayment of the relocation costs).

What I want to do:

Quite frankly, I want to quit my job and leave.  Perhaps move to Montana (Bozeman, quite likely), although I have absolutely no job prospects there (I'm a lawyer, but am not licensed to practice in Montana and, in any event, would like to leave the law altogether).  Or maybe drive around the US for a few months and try to figure some stuff out and see if there is anywhere else my wife and I would like to live besides Bozeman.

My thoughts:

I figure that if we were to leave, now is the time to do it.  All of our stuff has been professionally packed, crated, and palletized.  We can leave it in climate controlled storage in our current location for around $250 a month until we figure out what we want to do, and then have the movers ship it to us (at our cost, of course, although I don't know what that would run).

However, if I can stay at my job for 14 months, I have figured that we would roughly be able to save around $165K (from salary, next year's anticipated bonus, and RSU grants).  Nothing guaranteed, of course, but if the market stayed level, that would make the value of the taxable account around $1.14M.

My concerns:

Is it stupid to quit my job and take off?  Probably, but I'm just not particularly happy with my situation and the thought of being here for 14 months (which ties to the date when some RSUs vest) is just plain depressing and gives me anxiety (or something).

I figure that we have enough money to make things last for a while, but do we really?  I don't want to touch the cash, because that is (mentally) set aside for us to buy a house at some point--but would we really buy a house?  Our expenses (including lots of expensive vacations) in our expat assignment location (which had a much higher cost of living than the US) averaged $4,719.48 a month, but if you take out housing costs, they were $2,719.  If you just took our local expenses (and backed out the vacation costs, which were funded in US dollars), the monthly expenses drop to $3,652.03 (or $1652.03 without housing).  I figure the $975K in the taxable account could support a 2.75% withdrawal rate for a while, providing for around $26K a year, or $2,166 a month.  Of course, that withdrawal rate only works if we don't have to pay for housing (which we would have to pay for, unless we just bought a place outright, which I'm quite leery of), and we would have to pay for health insurance and some other things that we don't really pay for now, so we would obviously need to dip into the cash holdings (or increase the withdrawal rate, which I am absolutely opposed to doing) and so I'm a little worried about the money.

I don't have any job prospects in Montana, or elsewhere.  I have a very well paying (in my view) job now, and I would be unlikely to get another job that pays anywhere near what I currently earn. So once I leave, that income stream gets shut off and is likely never to return again at that same level.

I have no idea what it is that I really want to do.  I'd love to have a house with a yard so that I could garden---I toy with the idea of growing vegetables for a food bank, but that's probably not particularly realistic.  I don't want to just sit at home all day, but I don't know what I would do either.

I feel like I need to make a (or some) decision(s) soon, and I've never done well with short time deadlines, which just compounds the pressure and anxiety.

What should I do?

Stick around until the end of May to collect the RSUs and walk away?  Sign an apartment lease in our new location and stay with the current job for 14 months and then leave?  Do something else?

Any and all advice, thoughts, and wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for reading.

[Tyler]

I'm a sucker for round numbers.  And this one works out almost too perfectly. 

Using your current spending rate of $4719/month with no changes, that's pretty much exactly the monthly spend from a 3% SWR on a $1.89mm portfolio.  That's solid and reasonably conservative as-is.  Your next step is to make sure you've accounted for all your costs (like healthcare), but from the numbers you provided the $1k/month you spend on trips could easily cover medical insurance if you chose to reallocate.  And I'll go ahead and assume there's more room to find additional efficiencies in your budget if your job is truly not worth it any more to you.  So long story short -- money is not holding you back, especially if you're willing to find an affordable city to settle down in. 

[Argyle]

What does your wife think?  Is she Mustachian?

Does she work?  What are her plans and hopes for her future?

Are there children in the future?

What kind of annual income are you looking at from your assets if you never worked again?  Do the numbers and figure it out all the way to fifty years from now.  Do it if you got divorced and your wife got half the assets.  Does it still work?

I don't think it's unworkable, but I think it would feel a lot better to have a plan going forward, rather than just an intense feeling of "I hate this job."  (Though I totally sympathize with that.)  One thing you want to do is to take care of your emotions, which means having a path you've thought through, rather than merely going haphazardly from one thing to the next.  So I think the plan is key, not just for the money, but for what gives your life traction and interest.

[Tyler]

One thing you want to do is to take care of your emotions, which means having a path you've thought through, rather than merely going haphazardly from one thing to the next.  So I think the plan is key, not just for the money, but for what gives your life traction and interest.

+1.  Well said.

[waltworks]

Unless you LOVE to spend money like it's water, you're retired. Congratulations!

Bozeman is beautiful and not expensive. Get some rando skis and a mountain bike and check back in.

-W

[Thegoblinchief]

I'd be retired 3x over.

If you like the idea of slow travel, Go Curry Cracker is the rare intersection of travel and PF blog. They spend around $30K a year and seem to live quite well.

You've got plenty of assets even at your current spending level, though.

[TomTX]

I'd quit.

[frugalmom]

Figure out if your going to have kids. 

If no kids, and you are comfortable go. Know the in-house legal market is not that great.  My husband is at a similar level as you and has been casually looking for a while.  Lots of firms want him (and want him to work tons of hours) and are willing to pay more; he want's to stay in house for the "more reasonable" work life balance.  [We have a kid, so we want bigger numbers].

If you want to have kids, I would try and keep the job for the healthcare and because one year of savings invested for your child would set them up nicely in the future. Plus it's shocking how much you spend on some of their stuff. 

If you think you want 6 kids --then plan to work forever.......

[Thegoblinchief]

Figure out if your going to have kids. 

If no kids, and you are comfortable go. Know the in-house legal market is not that great.  My husband is at a similar level as you and has been casually looking for a while.  Lots of firms want him (and want him to work tons of hours) and are willing to pay more; he want's to stay in house for the "more reasonable" work life balance.  [We have a kid, so we want bigger numbers].

If you want to have kids, I would try and keep the job for the healthcare and because one year of savings invested for your child would set them up nicely in the future. Plus it's shocking how much you spend on some of their stuff. 

If you think you want 6 kids --then plan to work forever.......

WTF? This is terrible advice, no offense. 1.8 million is a LOT of money, kids or no kids. My FIRE plan is way less than that, and I'd be thrilled if we reached our number and the kids were still around the house. More time as a family, more opportunities to travel, etc.

[bacchi]

The relo costs will be more than $10,000. Just one container (6'x7'x8.5') for a 2,000 mile move cost us $1700 and we did the packing ourselves. You had professionals, probably have more than one container, and it's international.

Just fyi. You can still retire in May easily.

[waltworks]

With almost $2 million in the bank, potential kids are set regardless. Having their parent around instead of being at work 70 hours a week is worth more than piling up more unnecessary cash, no?

I guess I have a hard time grasping why this is even in question. At the commonly accepted conservative 4% SWR, you're talking $80k/year. That is a freaking ton of money even if you want to travel around and buy useless junk (or have kids). If you hate your job, freaking quit.

-W

Figure out if your going to have kids. 

If no kids, and you are comfortable go. Know the in-house legal market is not that great.  My husband is at a similar level as you and has been casually looking for a while.  Lots of firms want him (and want him to work tons of hours) and are willing to pay more; he want's to stay in house for the "more reasonable" work life balance.  [We have a kid, so we want bigger numbers].

If you want to have kids, I would try and keep the job for the healthcare and because one year of savings invested for your child would set them up nicely in the future. Plus it's shocking how much you spend on some of their stuff. 

If you think you want 6 kids --then plan to work forever.......

[BlueHouse]

The money shouldn't be what drives you to keep the job (you'll pay the amount you "save" when you uproot yourselves again and you won't have to be miserable for a year.)
But if it were me, I'd use those 14 months doing something that you're good at and are confident at and figure out what you want to do.  Spend EVERY weekend working on where exactly you want to live (and why) and what exactly you want to do.  You want to garden?  go and volunteer on a CSA on the weekends.  See how much you like it. 
I think it's pretty scary to go into a new phase of life with no idea what you want to do.  You can get really lost if there's nothing familiar (location, job) to fall back on.  So figure that out before you make any other life-changing decisions.  Just my opinion. 
Good luck to you and congratulations on having such a nice big stash available to be able to make choices like this one. 

[pirate_wench]

Soooo...Even if you spent roughly $800,000 cash on a mansion in Bozeman, you would have about a million dollars left?  And at the 4% withdrawal rate advocated on this site, minus some taxes, you still have roughly $3,000/month in today's dollars to safely spend for the rest of your life, none of which would go towards a mortgage/rent...Ummm...Am I missing something here? Is my math right?

 It's your life, but  if I were in your shoes I wouldn't spend $800,000 on a house...but I would pay cash for a reasonable house and at the absolute latest I would be retired yesterday. Then if I ever got scared about having  enough beer money, I would work at the food coop seasonally, part time.

Congratulations, the world is your oyster! :)

[Wile E. Coyote]

Do it.  You have plenty.  You don't love your job.  There are lots of things you could do that would have more meaning for you.  I know you said that you want to leave the law, but you could consider taking the Montana bar exam (pass rates seem not too bad, so you should be able to pass) and do something with that, even if it is on a limited basis.  There are so many people that can't afford to pay for good legal advice, that you could offer your services at a low rate and really help people.  Or even do some pro bono work.  Sit on a board of a couple of non-profits, etc. 

You have a lot in bonds, and maybe you are very conservative.  Maybe that makes sense for your risk profile, but it seems like a bit much.

Good luck.

[frugalmom]

Figure out if your going to have kids. 

If no kids, and you are comfortable go. Know the in-house legal market is not that great.  My husband is at a similar level as you and has been casually looking for a while.  Lots of firms want him (and want him to work tons of hours) and are willing to pay more; he want's to stay in house for the "more reasonable" work life balance.  [We have a kid, so we want bigger numbers].

If you want to have kids, I would try and keep the job for the healthcare and because one year of savings invested for your child would set them up nicely in the future. Plus it's shocking how much you spend on some of their stuff. 

If you think you want 6 kids --then plan to work forever.......

WTF? This is terrible advice, no offense. 1.8 million is a LOT of money, kids or no kids. My FIRE plan is way less than that, and I'd be thrilled if we reached our number and the kids were still around the house. More time as a family, more opportunities to travel, etc.

It is all about circumstances.  It all depends where you want to live.  How you want to raise your kids.  [Not to mention the possibility of having children with disabilities] I'm not talking access to luxury goods but experiences and classes are not inexpensive.  My daughter is 3 and we currently spend approximately $4000 on activities for her and these are the "low-cost" options in our area.  She has expressed an interest in learning violin, and I almost puked at the cost of suzuki in my area.  Luckily I found a woman willing to teach her for free in exchange for English lessons, but if my daughter really likes it an exceeds this woman's limited knowledge.  I also teach swim lessons in exchange for my daughter to take art.  (I teach her swimming, but still need a pool membership for both of us). Next year she starts preschool too and I was shocked at how much even the park district program charged. 

I was very lucky to have insurance for my daughter when going through speech therapy.  We went twice a week for 18 months.  Our insurance paid all but $15 per session.  If I had to pay the full rate it would have been $100 per session or over $15,000.  I know lots of people spending tens of thousands of dollars each year on therapies for their kids.  My daughter only had a speech delay, and did not have a disability. 

Maybe these are things you haven't had to experience, but I have.  In addition to having medical problems of my own.  $2 Million is not a walkaway number for our family. 

You may think me crazy, but I know the type of job the OP has.  I know how hard it is to get a good in-house position.  There are a glut of lawyers making $50K.  If he leaves his job, he will find work; but may have to do contract work, hang out a shingle, or go to a firm.  I can name 2 dozen lawyers that have 15-20 years of experience that never made 100K.  If you are not in a big firm, a boutique firm, an IP lawyer, or in house at a big company law is not the big payoff others believe.

I wasn't suggesting he work forever, but if they want to have kids, he can easily work the next 14 months.  It takes 10 months to make a baby. 

But truly if he wants 6 or more I have no idea how to budget for that much college......

[Thegoblinchief]

My oldest needed speech therapy for 3 years. Our cost? Free through the school system.

Certain medical conditions, sure I guess, but that's a what-if.

And paying for college (or not) is something many parents, not just ones around here, are split on.

None of this negates that nearly 2MM is a LOT of money.

[waltworks]

Frugalmom, at your level of paranoia, what is a sufficient amount of savings? With $80k/year in passive income at 4% SWR, your daughter's speech therapy is perfectly affordable, even at full price - and there's nothing stopping the OP from just purchasing insurance like yours that will cover it, anyway.

Seriously, how much is enough for you? And if it's more than what the OP has, please explain what you'll be spending the $100k/year or so on. I'm serious, I'd like your perspective on exactly what the money is needed for. Maybe I'm crazy to think $20-30k/year is sufficient.

-W

[TomTX]

Frugalmom, at your level of paranoia, what is a sufficient amount of savings? With $80k/year in passive income at 4% SWR, your daughter's speech therapy is perfectly affordable, even at full price - and there's nothing stopping the OP from just purchasing insurance like yours that will cover it, anyway.

Seriously, how much is enough for you? And if it's more than what the OP has, please explain what you'll be spending the $100k/year or so on. I'm serious, I'd like your perspective on exactly what the money is needed for. Maybe I'm crazy to think $20-30k/year is sufficient.

-W

I'm puzzled as well. At the OP's level of savings, he can easily afford good health insurance.

[samburger]

You may think me crazy, but I know the type of job the OP has.  I know how hard it is to get a good in-house position.  There are a glut of lawyers making $50K.  If he leaves his job, he will find work; but may have to do contract work, hang out a shingle, or go to a firm. ...

This is a terrible reason to stay at a job you hate when you have PLENTY of money to retire with a fat cushion, even while paying for ultra-primo insurance, if that's what OP wants.

OP, I recommend crunching the numbers for all of the scenarios you can think of. I think you already realize you CAN retire, but you don't feel confident, am I right? Do the math, build your confidence, quit your job, and get your travel on.

[CarDude]

Hmm. I thought I'd responded to this thread back when you first made it. Apparently not. However, nearly everyone has already said what I was going to say. You have enough to retire. Whether you choose to at this point is up to you, but in your shoes, I'd have left yesterday.

[sunnyca]

I agree with all of the comments above.

You'll love Bozeman- it's my plan to retire there when I reach FI :)

[DoubleDown]

Yup, I think you should retire. You have more than enough for a very comfortable retirement, particularly in a place like Bozeman, MT -- kids or no kids. You don't want to work at this job, it's causing you anxiety. I've got three kids, they just aren't that expensive (unless you carelessly let it be).

Not only do you have more than enough to retire indefinitely, you certainly have more than enough "FU" money to stop doing things that are making you unhappy now, and take 1-75 years to figure out the next phase without the pressure and unhappiness your work is causing you. And you have fantastic credentials as a lawyer. Even part time or itinerant consulting work would bring lots of additional earnings if you were ever inclined to seek it, though it wouldn't be necessary.

Have you run scenarios through "cfiresim" (enhanced alternative to firecalc)? Perhaps that will give you a boost of confidence to know that you are set.

[MarciaB]

The money shouldn't be what drives you to keep the job (you'll pay the amount you "save" when you uproot yourselves again and you won't have to be miserable for a year.)
But if it were me, I'd use those 14 months doing something that you're good at and are confident at and figure out what you want to do.  Spend EVERY weekend working on where exactly you want to live (and why) and what exactly you want to do.  You want to garden?  go and volunteer on a CSA on the weekends.  See how much you like it. 
I think it's pretty scary to go into a new phase of life with no idea what you want to do.  You can get really lost if there's nothing familiar (location, job) to fall back on.  So figure that out before you make any other life-changing decisions.  Just my opinion. 
Good luck to you and congratulations on having such a nice big stash available to be able to make choices like this one.

This was my thinking exactly. 14 months is not a long time when you consider you are making some serious life-changing choices (with decades-long consequences). Spend a portion of each day thinking about what your next move will feel like, what the pace of life will be, what your schedule will look like...essentially, vision/see/feel the future. Do you like it? Does it feel good? Do you need to alter that vision?

What does your spouse think the future will look/feel like? Are your visions aligned? If they aren't (yet) then you need to stay where you are until you're both on the same page. And when you get there...jump!

[Random Poster]

Thanks to all who have responded and provided feedback and advice.

My wife is supportive of any decision that I (and we) make, although she prefers for us to stick it out for 14 months, if only for the added financial security that the additional money can / could provide.

I'm an extremely risk-adverse person, and so I am leaning towards trying to make it work for 14 months. Although I suppose that we have the ability to walk away, sometimes just having the option to do so is worth more than actually doing it.

[Random Poster]

Using your current spending rate of $4719/month with no changes, that's pretty much exactly the monthly spend from a 3% SWR on a $1.89mm portfolio.  That's solid and reasonably conservative as-is.  Your next step is to make sure you've accounted for all your costs (like healthcare), but from the numbers you provided the $1k/month you spend on trips could easily cover medical insurance if you chose to reallocate.

True--I need to account for health insurance costs, and I haven't done any investigating as to what those might be. Clearly, some additional research is needed.

[SweetLife]

Just a quick thought .... Yes staying sounds like the best idea for you (risk adverse and all) ... AND YOU GET THE ABSOLUTE THRILL OF KNOWING THAT IF YOU WANTED TO ... you could say F-U I have the cash and don't need this job ... you may find going to work not so painfull this way ... you could make it fun ... countdown to a fab retirement party ... or start of travel ... etc ... as long as you are healthy and your wife is healthy and on-board ... you could use this time to WALLOW in the prospect of 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9 ... months from now and make the decisions for what you want to do ... AHH that is a dream I am looking forward to hopefully one day soon! :)

Good luck!!! Remember ... wallow ... you have earned it :)

[Random Poster]

What does your wife think?  Is she Mustachian?

Does she work?  What are her plans and hopes for her future?

Are there children in the future?

My wife is a teacher, but she hasn't worked since we left for our expat assignment (mostly due to international tax and licensing/certification issues). She could work now, except that the school year is almost over so she might not be employed until next Fall, and if she worked our overall expenses would increase and I'm not sure that, after you take the expenses and additional tax burden into account, it makes financial sense for her to work. She undoubtedly provides a great deal of value by staying at home, and that value might be worth more than what her teaching income would be.

We do not have any plans for children.

[Random Poster]

The money shouldn't be what drives you to keep the job (you'll pay the amount you "save" when you uproot yourselves again and you won't have to be miserable for a year.).

Can you explain this comment to me?  I figure that over the next 14 months, we should be able to save $165k. Surely it won't cost that much to move 2 people and the contents of a 1 bedroom apartment 1400 or so miles.

[Random Poster]

Soooo...Even if you spent roughly $800,000 cash on a mansion in Bozeman, you would have about a million dollars left?  And at the 4% withdrawal rate advocated on this site, minus some taxes, you still have roughly $3,000/month in today's dollars to safely spend for the rest of your life, none of which would go towards a mortgage/rent...Ummm...Am I missing something here? Is my math right?

Well, you are both right and wrong.

The $1.8 million is a mix of taxable investments ($975k), cash ($415k), and retirement accounts ($500k, all in IRAs and 401ks).

So while I guess we could buy an $800k house, that money would have to come from our cash and taxable investment accounts, and all we would have left would be the $500k in the retirement accounts and $500k or so in cash/taxable accounts. Touching the retirement accounts until we hit 60 is a non-starter for us, if we can help it, and I don't think the $500k in the taxable/cash accounts is enough to live on.

In any event, we don't want to spend more than $300k on a house, so maybe all of this is moot anyway. 

[Random Poster]

You may think me crazy, but I know the type of job the OP has.  I know how hard it is to get a good in-house position.  There are a glut of lawyers making $50K.  If he leaves his job, he will find work; but may have to do contract work, hang out a shingle, or go to a firm.  I can name 2 dozen lawyers that have 15-20 years of experience that never made 100K.  If you are not in a big firm, a boutique firm, an IP lawyer, or in house at a big company law is not the big payoff others believe.

This is part of my concern:  I have been extremely lucky in terms of the income that I have been able to get from my jobs. They haven't been enjoyable jobs, but they have been very well paying and, truth be told, I've been paid way more than I what I deserve. To walk away from that, knowing that I will likely never make that much again, is very concerning and is something that I can't do without a lot of thought.

[Random Poster]

OP, I recommend crunching the numbers for all of the scenarios you can think of. I think you already realize you CAN retire, but you don't feel confident, am I right?

Yes, that is essentially correct.

At a minimum, I feel that we would be okay, if I were to retire (or semi-retire), for a few years. But beyond that, I have absolutely no idea and I suppose it comes down to "how much do you really need" and whether you will ever have enough to feel comfortable about the future and the unknown. 

[waltworks]

I don't think you get much/any actual extra security out of working longer, actually. My logic is this: unless you want/need to spend much *more* than you do now, you're already operating below 4% SWR. That is already SUPER conservative and if you run your scenario in FIREcalc you'll get a 100% success rate, I guarantee. And that assumes you and your wife don't ever earn another cent from honest (or dishonest!) work.

So your risk factors have to do with black swan kinda stuff - nuclear war, asteroid strike, Cliven Bundy and pals overthrow the gov't, etc. A few more bucks in bonds won't help with that. Maybe take up flint-knapping or something? :)

-W

Thanks to all who have responded and provided feedback and advice.

My wife is supportive of any decision that I (and we) make, although she prefers for us to stick it out for 14 months, if only for the added financial security that the additional money can / could provide.

I'm an extremely risk-adverse person, and so I am leaning towards trying to make it work for 14 months. Although I suppose that we have the ability to walk away, sometimes just having the option to do so is worth more than actually doing it.

[AccidentalMiser]

My daughter is 3 and we currently spend approximately $4000 on activities for her and these are the "low-cost" options in our area.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think that your user name fits your choices.  I have five sons and probably didn't spend $4000 on activities for any one of them the whole time they lived at home.

To the OP's question, I'd quit immediately.

[Davids]

OP, Given that you pretty much have all that you really need for the rest of your life, especially since you have no plans for children (make sure you are using protection...), I would just work the next 14 months to build up the stache and during this time put together a well thought out plan of where you are going to live and what to do afterwards. Plus as another poster mentioned the fact that you know you do not need to do this anymore might actually make your final 14 months even more enjoyable. Use the time to put a plan together of where you will retire to. Don't buy some expensive home, since it is just the 2 of you I am sure you can find something perfect for less than $200K wherever you choose to ERE.

[waltworks]

I know, right? My 2 year old's favorite activities mostly involve dirt, rocks, and any liquids he can throw them into. We spend $4 to go to the pool every weekend, I guess.

How do you spend $4k on "activities" for a 3 year old?  I mean, WHAT do you spend the money on? A 3 year old IMO isn't ready for/shouldn't be doing any sort of serious "lessons" or practicing any particular skill (when they are doing that sort of stuff, it's pretty much always because of some terrible hangup/insecurity on the part of the parents). There's a reason all mammals have freeform, unorganized play when young, despite the huge dangers it presents in most cases. Best of all, dirt and grass and bugs are free (and good for the little immune system, too).

-W

My daughter is 3 and we currently spend approximately $4000 on activities for her and these are the "low-cost" options in our area.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think that your user name fits your choices.  I have five sons and probably didn't spend $4000 on activities for any one of them the whole time they lived at home.

To the OP's question, I'd quit immediately.

[waltworks]

I'd watch Office Space a couple of times to get in the proper mood for my last year of "work". :)

-W

OP, Given that you pretty much have all that you really need for the rest of your life, especially since you have no plans for children (make sure you are using protection...), I would just work the next 14 months to build up the stache and during this time put together a well thought out plan of where you are going to live and what to do afterwards. Plus as another poster mentioned the fact that you know you do not need to do this anymore might actually make your final 14 months even more enjoyable. Use the time to put a plan together of where you will retire to. Don't buy some expensive home, since it is just the 2 of you I am sure you can find something perfect for less than $200K wherever you choose to ERE.

[Cpa Cat]

In your shoes, I would work the 14 months. I would spend the 14 months planning for my retirement 14 months from now. Cut expenses, downsize belongings, use vacation time to visit the cities that we might want to settle in.

But I am more anxious about money/financial security than most people on this forum. I also don't like to be rushed, so if the decision is 1) make a major life change right now while your stuff is professionally packed or 2) take 14 months to really plan for that change, I would pick 2. Especially since, in your case, you don't know what you might want to do in the future or how much it might cost.

Also, for me, having a 14 month expiration date stamped on my job would relieve my depression/anxiety about continuing it.

That all said - if what you're looking for here is permission to quit, then you have it. Mathematically, you can do it. Emotionally, maybe you should do it.

[samburger]

OP, I recommend crunching the numbers for all of the scenarios you can think of. I think you already realize you CAN retire, but you don't feel confident, am I right?

Yes, that is essentially correct.

At a minimum, I feel that we would be okay, if I were to retire (or semi-retire), for a few years. But beyond that, I have absolutely no idea and I suppose it comes down to "how much do you really need" and whether you will ever have enough to feel comfortable about the future and the unknown.

I think you're right to take another 14 months, then. Take this time to confront your fears, work through scenarios, do a ton of strategizing and a million spreadsheets, whatever it takes to boost your confidence. Everyone here is right: You have PLENTY to quit now and never work again. But math is only half the battle. You need to feel secure and trust that you're equipped, financially and strategically, to deal with all kinds of different life changes.

[quilter]

Actually, real estate inBozeman isn't really outrageous unless you want mega land and a mega house. Check out realtor.com.

Even if you feel you must work an extra 14 months there would be lots of time to make spreadsheets and do some traveling to decide on your next steps.  It can be very scarey if you haven't been making plans all along.

As far as kids go, they can be very expensive. When my kids were little we lived in a small town and there were not a lot of expensive options. Exposure to art, music, sports, culture and languages can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it. My kids did very well, but they were never put on the high pressure track by us. With no kids, and two adults on board you could live super cheap if you need to.  You could also look into part time jobs at your new destination. What are your passions. We have younger friends who do part time work in bike shops, one works in a flower nursery, one in a gym, one in a hardware store for a little cash and to be around like minded individuals.  Heck, one even mows lawns. He was telling us he has 18 lawns now just from word of mouth. It is the good paying jobs with benefits and a future that are the tough ones to land.

It is all about level of comfort and priorities. 

[Emg03063]

Figure out the life you want, then decide if it's worth it to trade $165k for 14 extra months of it.  In the meantime, I'd keep working secure in the knowledge that I'm free to quit anytime (makes work oh so much more enjoyable).  It's always better to quit for something than to get away from something.  Congrats on the FI! 

[pirate_wench]

Soooo...Even if you spent roughly $800,000 cash on a mansion in Bozeman, you would have about a million dollars left?  And at the 4% withdrawal rate advocated on this site, minus some taxes, you still have roughly $3,000/month in today's dollars to safely spend for the rest of your life, none of which would go towards a mortgage/rent...Ummm...Am I missing something here? Is my math right?

Well, you are both right and wrong.

The $1.8 million is a mix of taxable investments ($975k), cash ($415k), and retirement accounts ($500k, all in IRAs and 401ks).

So while I guess we could buy an $800k house, that money would have to come from our cash and taxable investment accounts, and all we would have left would be the $500k in the retirement accounts and $500k or so in cash/taxable accounts. Touching the retirement accounts until we hit 60 is a non-starter for us, if we can help it, and I don't think the $500k in the taxable/cash accounts is enough to live on.

In any event, we don't want to spend more than $300k on a house, so maybe all of this is moot anyway.

That's exactly my point! I was sort of joking about buying a mansion to illustrate how much money you would still have, and how much you do have. Good on you! :)

[jbow808]

Just curious.. but why Bozeman?  Seriously why does everyone that ever talks about moving to Montana want to move to Bozeman? There are so many other areas of the Montana that are just as scenic and less expensive.  Missoula comes to mind, and so does Helena both of which have a lower cost of living.   

Personally I think there are better and nicer places to retire, say like Hawaii or Florida or even overseas where you could get more bang for your buck. But that's just my $ .02.

Bozeman is great if you want to deal with subzero temps, roads that don't get plowed and have locals who'll resent another "outsider" who is building a mega mansion into the side of a mountain and blocking access to hunting grounds.  Much of the drivel about how great Bozeman is just that..

I have friends and associates born and raised in Bozeman that you couldn't pay enough to go back. I think that speaks volumes. But hey what do I know, I took a job in Montana to get away from the hustle and bustle of urban life.

[FrugalZony]

Forget about your artificially induced deadline. Nobody says you have to take a decision in May!

Financially it totally sounds like you are there, even at your high expenses.
However it sounds, you are not sure if you are emotionally are there.

I would revel in the thought that I do have enough FU money so I COULD quit
then I would work the 14 months knowing I have FU money and try and shape my
job in a way to make it more bearable.

I would use the time to think long and hard and discuss with your significant other,
WHAT is it that you BOTH want and how your early retirement will look like.
Right now you have something to retire from, but not much to retire to, it sounds like!

Then I would make use of those 14 month to shape that retirement idea.
Take a trip to Bozeman, look for places you could live. Get all your ducks in a row
with your allocation and investments.
Trim your expenses, so you know comfortably you can live on that money without worries.
Research your healthcare options and all other cost you don't have to worry about now!
Try to get rid of some of your stuff, only keep what you think you will enjoy in retirement,
so you don't have to spend storage fees, relocation cost etc.

Then when things take shape you can always leave and deal with the cost pay back issue (your company may even prorate this amount to the months of service).

In your shoes, I would give myself the time to get my plan together and prepare for FIRE!
Those 14 months are going to be GREAT!

[Random Poster]

Just curious.. but why Bozeman?  Seriously why does everyone that ever talks about moving to Montana want to move to Bozeman? There are so many other areas of the Montana that are just as scenic and less expensive.  Missoula comes to mind, and so does Helena both of which have a lower cost of living.   

Personally I think there are better and nicer places to retire, say like Hawaii or Florida or even overseas where you could get more bang for your buck. But that's just my $ .02.

Bozeman is great if you want to deal with subzero temps, roads that don't get plowed and have locals who'll resent another "outsider" who is building a mega mansion into the side of a mountain and blocking access to hunting grounds.  Much of the drivel about how great Bozeman is just that..

I have friends and associates born and raised in Bozeman that you couldn't pay enough to go back. I think that speaks volumes. But hey what do I know, I took a job in Montana to get away from the hustle and bustle of urban life.

My wife and I like Bozeman because it is a college town that, depending on where you live, is (or can be) semi-walkable and it seems to be a city that will always have a somewhat stable economy due to tourism as a result of its proximity to Yellowstone and the ski areas.  Plus, it has all of the big-box stores that we like (Costco, etc) while still having less than 50k in population.

Building a big home on a mountainside isn't for us. We, ideally, want a small bungalow or older home in the historic area or near the university that has enough of a yard for gardening (such as it may be), but that kind of place won't come cheaply.

I've found no other place that is like Bozeman--if you know of one, I'd certainly be interested in learning about it. Missoula didn't appeal to us, and Helena seemed a little sprawling and we didn't see the same type of charming downtown that Bozeman offers. 

Clearly, nothing has been finalized yet, so I'm all ears for alternative places.

[Zamboni]

Why do you dislike this job so much?  Long hours?  Ass-hat colleagues?  Moral or ethical conundrums?

I'm with everyone who has written that
1) you have enough to retire now and
2) you should spend some time continuing to work while you plan out what you want to do.

It won't be that bad working if you use it as a chance to figure a few things out.

[jbow808]

Let me ask some of my co-workers for recommendations. I certainly see the appeal of Bozeman, but a college town just isn't my cup of tea - maybe I'm a little to old. Kalispell or Boise maybe?   

I live around Billings, where the cost of living is great, but a little too spread out for my taste.Eventually my wife and I plan on moving about an hour out to a smaller town and just make monthly Costco runs. On the other hand Billing's economy is fairly stable and growing, but I do have concerns about it's future growth as the oil industry (which I work in as a Field Engineer) starts to move into town - 2 refineries and more company's moving operations into the region.   

BTW congrats on reaching your goals. I certainly wish I was in you position.

One question, you mention you're a lawyer, what's your speciality?

[DoubleDown]

Forget about your artificially induced deadline. Nobody says you have to take a decision in May!

Financially it totally sounds like you are there, even at your high expenses.
However it sounds, you are not sure if you are emotionally are there.

I would revel in the thought that I do have enough FU money so I COULD quit
then I would work the 14 months knowing I have FU money and try and shape my
job in a way to make it more bearable.

I would use the time to think long and hard and discuss with your significant other,
WHAT is it that you BOTH want and how your early retirement will look like.
Right now you have something to retire from, but not much to retire to, it sounds like!

Then I would make use of those 14 month to shape that retirement idea.
Take a trip to Bozeman, look for places you could live. Get all your ducks in a row
with your allocation and investments.
Trim your expenses, so you know comfortably you can live on that money without worries.
Research your healthcare options and all other cost you don't have to worry about now!
Try to get rid of some of your stuff, only keep what you think you will enjoy in retirement,
so you don't have to spend storage fees, relocation cost etc.

Then when things take shape you can always leave and deal with the cost pay back issue (your company may even prorate this amount to the months of service).

In your shoes, I would give myself the time to get my plan together and prepare for FIRE!
Those 14 months are going to be GREAT!

The way FrugalZony's post is formatted is awesome, like some kind of cadence in some epic poetry. I intend to format all of my posts in this way from now on!

Oops I mean to say...

I intend
to format all my
posts
in this way from now on
OP has $1.9 MM

[Random Poster]

Let me ask some of my co-workers for recommendations. I certainly see the appeal of Bozeman, but a college town just isn't my cup of tea - maybe I'm a little to old. Kalispell or Boise maybe?   

I live around Billings, where the cost of living is great, but a little too spread out for my taste.Eventually my wife and I plan on moving about an hour out to a smaller town and just make monthly Costco runs. On the other hand Billing's economy is fairly stable and growing, but I do have concerns about it's future growth as the oil industry (which I work in as a Field Engineer) starts to move into town - 2 refineries and more company's moving operations into the region.   

BTW congrats on reaching your goals. I certainly wish I was in you position.

One question, you mention you're a lawyer, what's your speciality?

We like Kalispell, but we found it hard to get to unless you were coming from the North (which, most of the time, we were). It likely has the same tourist base as Bozeman, but obviously, no big college in town. It does have a Costco, though, as I recall.

Boise is much too large for our liking. We were there last year and it just seemed to sprawl forever. I'm sure the job options are better there than anywhere nearby or in Western Montana though.

Billings seems like a very busy city to me--we passed through there often during our various travels--and I never could quite figure out the street layout there. It has a nice Goodwill, though, and it probably has the best and most diversified economy in Montana.

As for my legal speciality, it is oil and gas law. At law firms (prior to going in house) I did lots of title work (Texas and New Mexico, mostly) and surface land work. In-house has been corporate operations work, but still oil and gas related: everything from MSAs to surface land assistance to marketing support to joint venture support to minor business development work to title assistance to office services/real estate and so on, all involving lands in onshore and offshore Texas and Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and various provinces in Canada.

[mm1970]

I know, right? My 2 year old's favorite activities mostly involve dirt, rocks, and any liquids he can throw them into. We spend $4 to go to the pool every weekend, I guess.

How do you spend $4k on "activities" for a 3 year old?  I mean, WHAT do you spend the money on? A 3 year old IMO isn't ready for/shouldn't be doing any sort of serious "lessons" or practicing any particular skill (when they are doing that sort of stuff, it's pretty much always because of some terrible hangup/insecurity on the part of the parents). There's a reason all mammals have freeform, unorganized play when young, despite the huge dangers it presents in most cases. Best of all, dirt and grass and bugs are free (and good for the little immune system, too).

-W

My daughter is 3 and we currently spend approximately $4000 on activities for her and these are the "low-cost" options in our area.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think that your user name fits your choices.  I have five sons and probably didn't spend $4000 on activities for any one of them the whole time they lived at home.

To the OP's question, I'd quit immediately.

Hmm...I can see where activities are expensive.  They are in our area too.

But we don't do activities for a 3 year old.  My older child didn't do any activities until he was ... 5 or 6?  Probably kindergarten.

The young one is not even two.

Then again, we have childcare expenses, so do those count?  Between child care, after school care, and summer camp, it's about $20k a year - the only thing left is "enrichment" after school, at about $300/year.

[bobmarley9993]

Well as has been repeated multiple times, you definitely don't need to keep working.  You can quit tomorrow if you want.

Personally, if I was your age I would probably try to bank just a little more.  You are still quite young and it sounds like your income would be significantly lower if you had to go back.  I kind of think make hay while the sun shines.  One way to look at it is that with additional savings you start to have the ability to diversify across lower return but inflation protected asset classes.   Gold, farm-land, coins, there are many other ideas as well, these all offer reasonable inflation protection but probably not great returns.   The returns may not matter though as it's just an extra safety net.   You are getting into a zone where you can buy a house, put aside enough in stocks/bonds to provide a comfortable retirement and still have a sizable chunk of coin for these alternative assets.  I think personally I would buy farm-land as if things get really crazy (not likely but just trying to find worst case scenarios) at least you can grow your own food.  If there is a high inflation event kind of by definition the price of the farmland should roughly hold it's value whereas bonds will be worthless and stocks could take 50%+ losses.   

Also, and you don't need to answer this, couldn't your wife work while you retire?  You had said something along the lines that it wasn't worth it at your current income levels.  However, without you working that might change the dynamics.  I don't know if that would be an acceptable situation for you to retire and her to keep working but if you are trying to be conservative the longer you can put off pulling from your stash and the longer one of you can maintain work skills the larger your safety net.

Either way, good luck, you are in great situation.