Author Topic: Case Study: poor school teacher...  (Read 21601 times)

kmb501

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2015, 01:04:52 AM »
I am subbing for the first time, and although not ASD I am definitely an introvert.  Its been insanely hard.  I will say that being an aid or a specialist (like reading specialist- pulls 3-4 low level readers out to work in a small group) appears to be a much better fit for me than teaching a whole classroom.  At this point, maybe you can consider narrowing your focus to, say, CCSD (or other districts recommended here that have big needs) jobs that are either aid positions or small group instruction positions.  Then you could gain some confidence, working with the same kids consistently, in smaller groups. 

Another thought, see what services might be available to help you as person with autism.  The kind of struggles you are having are the reasons that 85% of people with autism are unemployed.  I have a strong suspicion that there are career counseling opportunities you could utilize either through a workforce development agency, or a disabilities agency.

That is a good idea, but I'm finding just the act of looking for a good job overwhelming. I wish I could hire someone good to help me.

Hiring someone is absolutely not reasonable (hello, you have no money!) but you should definitely ask friends, family members, people from church, etc, for help.  Think of who you know that is super organized and ask if they might have some free time to help you over a beer (or whatever).  Once you get yourself organized and over the hump it will be much easier, but you NEED to get started now as the hiring season is fast approaching.

I really don't know many people who can help me. The first people who come to mind are my professors, and I've already contacted them.

lpep

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2015, 03:54:36 AM »
ESL teaching can be quite lucrative in foreign countries compared to where you are now, and could be a way to pay off your loans quickly. You'll want some actual experience in the US before applying for jobs overseas. Asia and the Middle East are the most lucrative regions today. With your passport and degree and 2 years experience you could do very well. If you're interested in this option, while building your resume domestically you'll have plenty of time to research options abroad.

Hint: look for international schools and quality university jobs rather than private institutes or part-time university gigs. And this doesn't always require sending out resumes blindly; international schools recruit at fairs in the US during autumn and winter - the best place to land a job.

Actually this isn't true in Vietnam. Your passport, degree, masters, and ESL certification will get you an extremely cushy job here at an international school with zero experience. I teach high school English at an international school (by name...) with just a BA and TESOL certificate. I think you would also be fine in Korea, Thailand, and Japan - degrees and certificates mean a lot here (also: whiteness, sadly), experience not as much. I can't speak to universities, but English centers (which pay hourly) and some international schools for sure.

This is also a really great place to build on your teaching skills, kmb501 - the kids here are fairly respectful (I have no comparison to the US, but I find them fine), you will probably work at a bunch of places and have plenty of opportunities to practice interviewing, and the whole experience of living in a new country is very confidence-building. Plus, you're already weird as a foreigner, so the ASD wouldn't be so apparent. It's a total seller's market, in Hanoi at least - you'll do fine. There's also pretty low expectations for teachers, I've found.

Let me know if you're really interested - it's a big step, but totally doable. You can earn $2k a month here and live on $500 of it, and that's not being very frugal.

BPA

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2015, 06:33:53 AM »
Sorry to hear about your struggles. 

I'm probably going to sound like a bit of a jerk, but felt it necessary to weigh in.

Teaching is a very social profession.  You need to understand curriculum and you really need to understand and work well with people.  The colleagues I've had with ASD have struggled a great deal because they were unable to connect with students.  One didn't even try and the other went overboard trying to be what she wasn't and wound up burning out.  She was "faking it" but it was exhausting to her. 

They are both really good people who meant well, but they would say things they shouldn't that hurt students feelings and then they had to deal with outraged parents and they frequently put off their colleagues.  They were moved around from school to school which wasn't fair but was how the school board deals with many parental complaints.  Both experienced a great deal of stress. 

There is a line from one of Edward Hallowell's books that goes something like this, "Children with AD/HD (or any exceptionality really) need the right parents and teachers.  Adults with AD/HD need the right spouses and jobs."  I'd say this line fits those with ASD too.  Teaching does not seem like a good fit for someone with ASD.  My son has ADHD and Tourettes and that rules out a lot of careers for him too.  He just needs to find the right fit.

I've often thought that it's unfortunate that those with ASD are not well suited for teaching because there would be a great deal for students to learn about ASD from people who have it.  Unfortunately, in practice, there are frequent stresses for teachers with ASD.  I've been teaching for 19 years and have been a union rep for 13 and what I've outlined seems to be the reality. 

amyable

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2015, 06:52:50 AM »
If you really want to do it, and you feel like you can make a difference, do it!  Teaching is hard for everyone.

I have OCD and taught middle school for 7 years, and I think even among those in the counseling profession, there's this idea that people with OCD just need to go work in a little gray office and be an accountant or something.  I call bullshit. 

Sometimes the things that don't make us comfortable are the best things we could possibly do.  I had a great relationship with my students, and the only reason I left teaching was to pursue school counseling.

I don't know you.  I don't know how your disorder affects you, but the advice that people who have [insert disorder] are universally not fit for a certain profession rings untrue to me. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 06:54:39 AM by amyable »

decisionprof

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2015, 07:13:07 AM »
I read your post and the replies this morning with great interest. I have been in Education for over 25 years (teacher, administrator, and now I am a prof in a Teacher Ed program).  I also have a niece with Asperger's and our best friends daughter has an ASD diagnosis as well.  From what you have written, I am very impressed that you have been able to sub in multiple districts, volunteer, etc. without a great deal of support from family. I can't see my niece or my friend's daughter being able to be on their own without family support or some type of "life coach" because of their anxiety and other issues related to their ASD. 

You have been given a great deal of excellent and honest advice here and I am sure it is overwhelming.  Your ESL certification is definitely a huge plus.  I work in upstate NY and there are ESL jobs open in many districts in New York state and many more posted already for next year.  To be certified out of your issuing state will take time (and taking tests sometimes, etc.) - but if a district needs you, they will work with you on this.  Before I write more - you have said that you would consider moving.  You haven't mentioned much about your reliance on family at all.  Do you feel that a move that far away could create more stress/anxiety - which could then impact your job performance?  I have some other ideas for you too but more information on that would be important.  There are terrific folks on these forums willing to help. 

Setters-r-Better

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2015, 07:31:18 AM »
If you're at all unsure that teaching is what you want to do with your life,  I suggest you sign up with a temp agency and try out some different types of jobs and work environments,  you may find something you love. 

The tutoring ideas are excellent. 

Could you get a roommate to reduce housing expenses?

Cpa Cat

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2015, 08:12:00 AM »
You have received many wonderful suggestions here. I wanted to add one more: Maybe you need to adjust your expectations of how children should connect with you.

I can list on one hand how many teachers I've had - my whole life - who were both great teachers and really likable. Likability is not a requirement for kids to learn from you. I was in French Immersion in Canada and I can't recall a single French-Canadian teacher who wanted us to like them - culturally, I don't think that a priority in their teaching.

As a human, sometimes it's hard to let go of this idea that everyone should like us - and that there's something wrong if they don't. That mentality can be very hard on our self-esteem. Getting everyone to like you is a monumental effort in the best of circumstances - and few people are truly talented at it.

You need to focus on being an effective teacher. Effective means controlling the class (and your own emotions - don't get angry), and communicating information. It is extremely difficult for a substitute teacher to be a truly effective teacher - children automatically dismiss your value to them. You're a temp, and they know it.

In order to truly evaluate your effectiveness of a teacher, you'll need to get a permanent position where you're engaging with the kids and coworkers all year long. So don't give up on teaching yet.

If, after working at a permanent position, you still find that your personality is getting in the way, then I would second the suggestion to go overseas. Cultural differences will help camouflage the oddness and you may find that another culture has a different kind of teacher-student relationship that may be more in line with your abilities (less warm and fuzzy).

kmb501

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2015, 02:56:31 PM »
ESL teaching can be quite lucrative in foreign countries compared to where you are now, and could be a way to pay off your loans quickly. You'll want some actual experience in the US before applying for jobs overseas. Asia and the Middle East are the most lucrative regions today. With your passport and degree and 2 years experience you could do very well. If you're interested in this option, while building your resume domestically you'll have plenty of time to research options abroad.

Hint: look for international schools and quality university jobs rather than private institutes or part-time university gigs. And this doesn't always require sending out resumes blindly; international schools recruit at fairs in the US during autumn and winter - the best place to land a job.

Actually this isn't true in Vietnam. Your passport, degree, masters, and ESL certification will get you an extremely cushy job here at an international school with zero experience. I teach high school English at an international school (by name...) with just a BA and TESOL certificate. I think you would also be fine in Korea, Thailand, and Japan - degrees and certificates mean a lot here (also: whiteness, sadly), experience not as much. I can't speak to universities, but English centers (which pay hourly) and some international schools for sure.

This is also a really great place to build on your teaching skills, kmb501 - the kids here are fairly respectful (I have no comparison to the US, but I find them fine), you will probably work at a bunch of places and have plenty of opportunities to practice interviewing, and the whole experience of living in a new country is very confidence-building. Plus, you're already weird as a foreigner, so the ASD wouldn't be so apparent. It's a total seller's market, in Hanoi at least - you'll do fine. There's also pretty low expectations for teachers, I've found.

Let me know if you're really interested - it's a big step, but totally doable. You can earn $2k a month here and live on $500 of it, and that's not being very frugal.

I want to know more. Which company are you with, and what are the requirements to register?

lpep

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2015, 07:10:16 PM »
ESL teaching can be quite lucrative in foreign countries compared to where you are now, and could be a way to pay off your loans quickly. You'll want some actual experience in the US before applying for jobs overseas. Asia and the Middle East are the most lucrative regions today. With your passport and degree and 2 years experience you could do very well. If you're interested in this option, while building your resume domestically you'll have plenty of time to research options abroad.

Hint: look for international schools and quality university jobs rather than private institutes or part-time university gigs. And this doesn't always require sending out resumes blindly; international schools recruit at fairs in the US during autumn and winter - the best place to land a job.

Actually this isn't true in Vietnam. Your passport, degree, masters, and ESL certification will get you an extremely cushy job here at an international school with zero experience. I teach high school English at an international school (by name...) with just a BA and TESOL certificate. I think you would also be fine in Korea, Thailand, and Japan - degrees and certificates mean a lot here (also: whiteness, sadly), experience not as much. I can't speak to universities, but English centers (which pay hourly) and some international schools for sure.

This is also a really great place to build on your teaching skills, kmb501 - the kids here are fairly respectful (I have no comparison to the US, but I find them fine), you will probably work at a bunch of places and have plenty of opportunities to practice interviewing, and the whole experience of living in a new country is very confidence-building. Plus, you're already weird as a foreigner, so the ASD wouldn't be so apparent. It's a total seller's market, in Hanoi at least - you'll do fine. There's also pretty low expectations for teachers, I've found.

Let me know if you're really interested - it's a big step, but totally doable. You can earn $2k a month here and live on $500 of it, and that's not being very frugal.

I want to know more. Which company are you with, and what are the requirements to register?

I'm not with any company. After researching the teaching market here, I decided the best thing would be to come here and then find a job, so that's what I did. There are companies (ILA, Apollo, Language Link) that will help you move here, but they tend to pay less than market price and also make you start working full time within 3-4 days of getting here, which I think is awful. Those are all also language centers, not actual schools, and mostly younger kids.

I ended up at an international school a 5 minute bike ride from my apartment just by searching the job ads and jumping on one. You could try researching universities here (RMIT) or international schools (UNIS, St. Paul's, Singapore International School). With your credentials you'll make at least $25/hr or equivalent!

kmb501

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2015, 09:32:21 PM »
ESL teaching can be quite lucrative in foreign countries compared to where you are now, and could be a way to pay off your loans quickly. You'll want some actual experience in the US before applying for jobs overseas. Asia and the Middle East are the most lucrative regions today. With your passport and degree and 2 years experience you could do very well. If you're interested in this option, while building your resume domestically you'll have plenty of time to research options abroad.

Hint: look for international schools and quality university jobs rather than private institutes or part-time university gigs. And this doesn't always require sending out resumes blindly; international schools recruit at fairs in the US during autumn and winter - the best place to land a job.

Actually this isn't true in Vietnam. Your passport, degree, masters, and ESL certification will get you an extremely cushy job here at an international school with zero experience. I teach high school English at an international school (by name...) with just a BA and TESOL certificate. I think you would also be fine in Korea, Thailand, and Japan - degrees and certificates mean a lot here (also: whiteness, sadly), experience not as much. I can't speak to universities, but English centers (which pay hourly) and some international schools for sure.

This is also a really great place to build on your teaching skills, kmb501 - the kids here are fairly respectful (I have no comparison to the US, but I find them fine), you will probably work at a bunch of places and have plenty of opportunities to practice interviewing, and the whole experience of living in a new country is very confidence-building. Plus, you're already weird as a foreigner, so the ASD wouldn't be so apparent. It's a total seller's market, in Hanoi at least - you'll do fine. There's also pretty low expectations for teachers, I've found.

Let me know if you're really interested - it's a big step, but totally doable. You can earn $2k a month here and live on $500 of it, and that's not being very frugal.

I want to know more. Which company are you with, and what are the requirements to register?

I'm not with any company. After researching the teaching market here, I decided the best thing would be to come here and then find a job, so that's what I did. There are companies (ILA, Apollo, Language Link) that will help you move here, but they tend to pay less than market price and also make you start working full time within 3-4 days of getting here, which I think is awful. Those are all also language centers, not actual schools, and mostly younger kids.

I ended up at an international school a 5 minute bike ride from my apartment just by searching the job ads and jumping on one. You could try researching universities here (RMIT) or international schools (UNIS, St. Paul's, Singapore International School). With your credentials you'll make at least $25/hr or equivalent!

Right now, though, saving money is a problem. How much would I need to move there? I think contacting a school first and knowing what I'm getting into would make a little more sense in my situation. What would I be looking at in way of cost to do it your way? I imagine I would need to pay a lot out of pocket.

Nudelkopf

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2015, 12:10:43 AM »
Aha. ASD might indeed be incompatible with classroom teaching.
I disagree. I'm a teacher, and I know of several who have ASD - although they do tend to teach senior classes (physics & maths) where behaviour is generally quite acceptable anyway.

Also, I'm such a bitch at school sometimes. Doesn't meant I've got ASD or are anti-social. Sometimes I just fucking hate the students and don't give a fuck about them, and they can go fuck themselves.

MrsPete

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2015, 08:42:43 AM »
I'm guessing my first step would be to make a list of my job options and go through and apply for those one-by-one. Sorry if I seem a bit needy, but could someone suggest the options that come to mind? I know I need to get some books on specialized teaching, like for SpEd and Dyslexia. I could also apply to be an online teacher, and I could interview via Skype for jobs in other states.

There are a few things I need to do:

Get some teaching competence
. To be honest, I don't feel like I know a lot about the kind of teaching my district requires. The only teaching I've done was directly out of a teacher's edition of a textbook. I didn't make up my own stuff. I incorporated it into the lessons here and there, but I admit that I would have been totally lost if I would have had to make up my own material. My lessons don't flow when I make my own things up. I skip several steps because I think they are common sense, and then I'm bewildered when the students act like they have no idea what to do. 

Capitalize on my strengths. I'm best working with students one-on-one in a very structured environment. I like getting into routines and doing the same kind of work over and over. I also love learning and explaining things to people.

Get better at interviewing
I really haven't done great on interviews with potential employers. I wasn't really prepared. I looked over interview questions, but I was so nervous that I didn't remember a lot of my answers. Interviews make me so nervous that sometimes I just wish they would be over.
What I'm hearing is that you're not particularly "in tune" with your students.  You're thinking at the college level instead of thinking about what your students need /anticipating where they're going to have trouble.  I remember having trouble with this at first -- but you should've had some experience with this in student teaching.  You MUST be able to do more than read the textbook and cover those lessons.

You sound like you know yourself well in saying that you work well with a small number of kids in a structured environment.  I do think ESL or special ed would be a better fit for you than a traditional classroom, and those areas are RED HOT.  If you can't get a job in one of those areas, something is wrong.

What I really think you're saying is that you stink at classroom management -- and everyone does at first, though student teaching should've helped you pick up some skills.  As a classroom teacher, it is ESSENTIAL that you are able to multi-task and be in control of your classroom.  You have to be able to admit a kid to class /read his excuse note, while walking towards the phone that's ringing, and while shooting a death stare to stop the kid who's tossing paper at his friend across the room . . . ALL WHILE not missing a beat of your lesson.  When you're talking about K-12 teaching, any reasonably intelligent adult should know the material, but it's this multi-tasking that "gets" new teachers.  Let me put it this way:  Someone is going to be in charge of your classroom, and if YOU don't step up and take that position, one or more of your students WILL take charge -- and things won't be pretty.   

80% of your success as a teacher is predicated on being able to manage your classroom, and a lot of that is about having the right personality /temprament.  How do you "get there"?  You practice.  In a classroom, and since you're subbing, that's good.  Every single day you need to work on getting a little bit better. 
OK, so I'm going to be brutally honest, but this little list concerns me. I have taught 7th and 8th grade English for 16 years and have supervised quite a few student teachers during that time. Being effective in the classroom often comes down to personality: a willingness to "wing it," to take calculated risks, to interact with large groups of kids, to manage occasional chaos, to challenge kids, to figure out what isn't making sense and to meet the kids at that point, etc. Being a good student doesn't mean you will be a good teacher. Loving your subject also doesn't translate into teaching it well.

It sounds to me like you might enjoy tutoring or teaching in/with an online school. If you are doubting your ability to create a presence in the classroom, then a classroom of forty kids might not be a good fit. Teaching adult school, becoming a travelling teacher for sick kids, or becoming a resource specialist (RSP, a component of Special Ed) might be a better fit.

Also, just to show you what's out there, my district has multiple openings pretty much all the time: http://www.teachinla.com/
I'm thinking the same thing.  I've seen plenty of people over the years who had no trouble earning a degree and who went through student teaching . . . but they didn't thrive.  Those also tend to be the people who don't get jobs.  As I said above, you really have to have a certain personality type to be a classroom teacher, and if you don't have it, you may be able to fake it for a bit . . . but you're not going to be comfortable, and you're not going to be successful long-term. 

HOWEVER, if you don't have the classroom teacher personality, you can still work in education.  Online learning is becoming a huge field, and it's completely different from classroom teaching.  That is probably the most possible inroad for the OP.  Other options could include working with textbooks or a testing service.  However, those options tend to go to the classroom superstars who are looking to do more. 
(Did not read any replies-sorry if repeated info) With a master's, you should be able to get a side gig teaching at a community college or even become an adjunct at a larger college.
I do know a number of classroom teachers who ALSO teach at the community college, but -- again -- they tend to be the classroom superstars.  I don't know any community college teachers who don't have experience elsewhere first. 

MrsPete

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2015, 08:43:57 AM »
I am subbing for the first time, and although not ASD I am definitely an introvert.  Its been insanely hard.  I will say that being an aid or a specialist (like reading specialist- pulls 3-4 low level readers out to work in a small group) appears to be a much better fit for me than teaching a whole classroom.  At this point, maybe you can consider narrowing your focus to, say, CCSD (or other districts recommended here that have big needs) jobs that are either aid positions or small group instruction positions.  Then you could gain some confidence, working with the same kids consistently, in smaller groups. 

Another thought, see what services might be available to help you as person with autism.  The kind of struggles you are having are the reasons that 85% of people with autism are unemployed.  I have a strong suspicion that there are career counseling opportunities you could utilize either through a workforce development agency, or a disabilities agency.

That is a good idea, but I'm finding just the act of looking for a good job overwhelming. I wish I could hire someone good to help me.

Hiring someone is absolutely not reasonable (hello, you have no money!) but you should definitely ask friends, family members, people from church, etc, for help.  Think of who you know that is super organized and ask if they might have some free time to help you over a beer (or whatever).  Once you get yourself organized and over the hump it will be much easier, but you NEED to get started now as the hiring season is fast approaching.

I really don't know many people who can help me. The first people who come to mind are my professors, and I've already contacted them.
I don't think professors are going to be much help. 

Have you talked to your college's placement services office? 
How about the principal and cooperating teacher from your student teaching experience? 

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2015, 08:54:21 AM »
You have received many wonderful suggestions here. I wanted to add one more: Maybe you need to adjust your expectations of how children should connect with you.

I can list on one hand how many teachers I've had - my whole life - who were both great teachers and really likable. Likability is not a requirement for kids to learn from you. I was in French Immersion in Canada and I can't recall a single French-Canadian teacher who wanted us to like them - culturally, I don't think that a priority in their teaching.

As a human, sometimes it's hard to let go of this idea that everyone should like us - and that there's something wrong if they don't. That mentality can be very hard on our self-esteem. Getting everyone to like you is a monumental effort in the best of circumstances - and few people are truly talented at it.

You need to focus on being an effective teacher. Effective means controlling the class (and your own emotions - don't get angry), and communicating information. It is extremely difficult for a substitute teacher to be a truly effective teacher - children automatically dismiss your value to them. You're a temp, and they know it.

In order to truly evaluate your effectiveness of a teacher, you'll need to get a permanent position where you're engaging with the kids and coworkers all year long. So don't give up on teaching yet.

If, after working at a permanent position, you still find that your personality is getting in the way, then I would second the suggestion to go overseas. Cultural differences will help camouflage the oddness and you may find that another culture has a different kind of teacher-student relationship that may be more in line with your abilities (less warm and fuzzy).
Good points, and I think they're particularly applicable to women.  We WANT people to like us; it's part of our make-up on a subconscious level. 

However, my JOB is not to make friends with 14-year olds.  Rather, my JOB is to impart knowledge unto them and to design activities that'll help them internalize the material.  To do that, compotence and fairness are more important than friendliness.  I don't mean that I'm cruel to the kids.  I always speak in a respectful way and offer them all the options I can, but MOST OF THE TIME my students would really rather not do the work I give them.  They'd rather mess around on their phones, chat with their friends, read summaries instead of novels, or even take a nap.  It's my job to convince them to put these passtimes aside and DO THEIR WORK. 

To give an example:  We've just started a new semester, so we're on day 14 or so of class.  I have a girl in my senior class whom I suspect isn't going to make it.  She has a one-year old child at home, and she has already missed 9 days of class.  Her mother asked for a packet of make-up work, which I put together and left in the office -- she didn't pick it up.  She doesn't think she should be required to do anything if she's not in class because "it's not her fault".  When I talked to her about the make-up work and gave her a deadline for make-up, she told me to "get out of her face".  She doesn't like to follow classroom rules (i.e., concerning food, phones).  We have our first test next week, and experience tells me that she's probably going to fail it . . . then she'll just fade away, and I'll never know what became of her. 

It's human nature to say, "Oh, but she's in such a bad situation!  I should excuse this and that."  But that would be giving her grades for work she hasn't done, and that would be unfair to the other students who did their work.  I have to be FAIR instead of FRIENDLY.   

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2015, 09:50:11 AM »
Dale Carnegie course could possibly help you with your classroom presence.

Does your state offer any 'vocational rehabilitation' services?  I'm thinking Job Coach, mentoring help, etc.  Do you have any established adults who can come alongside you and let you bounce ideas off of, get direction, etc.?  How smart you are to have landed here at MMM!  One thing if you are even remotely interested in religion, is try attending a church/synagogue/etc., going to their Sunday School classes, get acquainted with the small group and then force yourself to WEEKLY before the services start go up to people in the larger congregation, look them in the eye and introduce yourself, shake their hand, welcome them if they are new, etc.  This is how I got my children to where they could converse comfortably with other people.  This is how I learned it myself.  An INFJ here!  Some of this comes easier with age, but only you can force yourself outside of your own comfort zone.

I'll echo someone else...doesn't your alma mater have some kind of job placement program that you can access?

Have you spent any time on Craigslist looking at side gigs there?  Not only for yourself but seeing how other people are getting work?  How they are marketing themselves?  What kinds of gigs they do? 

How to get tutoring work?  Make up some business cards.  Talk to all the other teachers/principals/parents/school employees etc when you are subbing.  Hand them a card.  Tell them you'd love to work with their child, their problem students, etc.  Advertise on Craigslist.  Post flyers at laundries, groceries, community bldgs.  Set up your own website, promote it.  I'm not a certified teacher but ESL trained and I got lots of jobs teaching whole families in their living rooms and could've even done it in my own home if I'd of wanted folks in (I'm very private in that way). 

You CAN do this!!!

Exhale

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2015, 10:05:01 AM »
I got ahead by not owning a car and finding ways to live rent free (live-in nanny, housesitter, elder care, etc.). It takes a certain mindset (as well as strong legs and/or bus system), but it can really pay off, especially in your low earning years. Interestingly, I like being car free so much that, at age 46 with a decent job, I still don't own one. Also, I'm house sharing (very low rent) in order to get to FIRE faster.

Be strategic about where you volunteer. As in, volunteer where you want to work. That way they'll get to know you. As a friend once said about her current job, "I volunteered there for a year, made myself indispensable and they hired me." Even if you don't get work at that particular location, networks are what get people jobs.

Good luck!

MrsPete

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2015, 04:14:15 PM »
How to get tutoring work?  Make up some business cards.  Talk to all the other teachers/principals/parents/school employees etc when you are subbing.  Hand them a card.  Tell them you'd love to work with their child, their problem students, etc.  Advertise on Craigslist.  Post flyers at laundries, groceries, community bldgs.  Set up your own website, promote it.  I'm not a certified teacher but ESL trained and I got lots of jobs teaching whole families in their living rooms and could've even done it in my own home if I'd of wanted folks in (I'm very private in that way). 

You CAN do this!!!
Get yourself on the tutoring list at the county office.  Parents will be able to choose you, knowing that you're a certified teacher. 

Cassie

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2015, 04:47:46 PM »
Since you have a disability you can apply to Vocational REhabilitation to assist you with  finding a job. One of the things they can do is hire a job placement specialist to help you find a job. You can also practice mock interviewing with the JPS.  You will be assigned a counselor that will manage your case. It is a federal program that is administered by the states (80% fed $ & 20% state $).  The purpose is to help people with disabilities get jobs. They work with professionals all the way to very low functioning people.  You never have to pay for services unless you made a high income.  I worked in this field for 24 years.

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choppingwood

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2015, 12:15:35 AM »
If you really want to do it, and you feel like you can make a difference, do it!  Teaching is hard for everyone....

I don't know you.  I don't know how your disorder affects you, but the advice that people who have [insert disorder] are universally not fit for a certain profession rings untrue to me.

I agree. Do what you'd love to do, and figure out how you can do it.  I'm a serious introvert, who learned to work really well with people, because the things I wanted to do needed great people skills. Many of the best of my colleagues are the same. Think about what you need to learn, and ask people who are good at it how they do it.

lpep

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2015, 12:32:06 AM »
ESL teaching can be quite lucrative in foreign countries compared to where you are now, and could be a way to pay off your loans quickly. You'll want some actual experience in the US before applying for jobs overseas. Asia and the Middle East are the most lucrative regions today. With your passport and degree and 2 years experience you could do very well. If you're interested in this option, while building your resume domestically you'll have plenty of time to research options abroad.

Hint: look for international schools and quality university jobs rather than private institutes or part-time university gigs. And this doesn't always require sending out resumes blindly; international schools recruit at fairs in the US during autumn and winter - the best place to land a job.

Actually this isn't true in Vietnam. Your passport, degree, masters, and ESL certification will get you an extremely cushy job here at an international school with zero experience. I teach high school English at an international school (by name...) with just a BA and TESOL certificate. I think you would also be fine in Korea, Thailand, and Japan - degrees and certificates mean a lot here (also: whiteness, sadly), experience not as much. I can't speak to universities, but English centers (which pay hourly) and some international schools for sure.

This is also a really great place to build on your teaching skills, kmb501 - the kids here are fairly respectful (I have no comparison to the US, but I find them fine), you will probably work at a bunch of places and have plenty of opportunities to practice interviewing, and the whole experience of living in a new country is very confidence-building. Plus, you're already weird as a foreigner, so the ASD wouldn't be so apparent. It's a total seller's market, in Hanoi at least - you'll do fine. There's also pretty low expectations for teachers, I've found.

Let me know if you're really interested - it's a big step, but totally doable. You can earn $2k a month here and live on $500 of it, and that's not being very frugal.

I want to know more. Which company are you with, and what are the requirements to register?

I'm not with any company. After researching the teaching market here, I decided the best thing would be to come here and then find a job, so that's what I did. There are companies (ILA, Apollo, Language Link) that will help you move here, but they tend to pay less than market price and also make you start working full time within 3-4 days of getting here, which I think is awful. Those are all also language centers, not actual schools, and mostly younger kids.

I ended up at an international school a 5 minute bike ride from my apartment just by searching the job ads and jumping on one. You could try researching universities here (RMIT) or international schools (UNIS, St. Paul's, Singapore International School). With your credentials you'll make at least $25/hr or equivalent!

Right now, though, saving money is a problem. How much would I need to move there? I think contacting a school first and knowing what I'm getting into would make a little more sense in my situation. What would I be looking at in way of cost to do it your way? I imagine I would need to pay a lot out of pocket.

You would need a one-way plane ticket ($800, can find cheaper) plus two weeks of living expenses (figure $30/day living cheap). You could do it for a month of living expenses at home.

expatartist

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2015, 05:36:18 PM »
ESL teaching can be quite lucrative in foreign countries compared to where you are now, and could be a way to pay off your loans quickly. You'll want some actual experience in the US before applying for jobs overseas. Asia and the Middle East are the most lucrative regions today. With your passport and degree and 2 years experience you could do very well. If you're interested in this option, while building your resume domestically you'll have plenty of time to research options abroad.

Hint: look for international schools and quality university jobs rather than private institutes or part-time university gigs. And this doesn't always require sending out resumes blindly; international schools recruit at fairs in the US during autumn and winter - the best place to land a job.

Actually this isn't true in Vietnam. Your passport, degree, masters, and ESL certification will get you an extremely cushy job here at an international school with zero experience. I teach high school English at an international school (by name...) with just a BA and TESOL certificate. I think you would also be fine in Korea, Thailand, and Japan - degrees and certificates mean a lot here (also: whiteness, sadly), experience not as much. I can't speak to universities, but English centers (which pay hourly) and some international schools for sure.

This is also a really great place to build on your teaching skills, kmb501 - the kids here are fairly respectful (I have no comparison to the US, but I find them fine), you will probably work at a bunch of places and have plenty of opportunities to practice interviewing, and the whole experience of living in a new country is very confidence-building. Plus, you're already weird as a foreigner, so the ASD wouldn't be so apparent. It's a total seller's market, in Hanoi at least - you'll do fine. There's also pretty low expectations for teachers, I've found.

Let me know if you're really interested - it's a big step, but totally doable. You can earn $2k a month here and live on $500 of it, and that's not being very frugal.

I recommended OP go for 2 yrs post-teaching certification experience at US schools because:
* That's what good int'l schools require before they will spring for an overseas hire
* OP sounds like they could use more experience before bringing cultural adjustments into the mix

ESL teaching as an overseas hire at a K-12 international school can be lucrative. At international schools in China's biggest cities (ie Shanghai and Beijing), overseas hire teachers with a Master's and 2 years experience can earn:
* US$4-6k+/month
* paid housing ($2k/month)
* round-trip airfare home every year
* other bonuses depending on where you work

This is just China, and salaries vary worldwide, but there is a huge difference in salary and benefits for an overseas hire vs. local hire teacher for international schools - like any business which requires expat staff. A local hire's salary/benefits can be half of an overseas hire who's gone through the hiring process remotely. It's market-driven; an overseas hire needs more incentive to come.

My daily expenses in a large city in China are ~$500/month, housing is taken care of by my employer, so I'm able to save most of my salary. To get an idea of what the Int'l School market offers for qualified teachers, go to sites like http://internationalschoolsreview.com and search the forums.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 05:52:53 PM by expatartist »

lpep

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #72 on: February 12, 2015, 03:21:13 AM »
^^^ Interesting! I really find that's the opposite here - overseas hires don't have anything to compare their potential salary against, so they accept something that works out lower on salary than what part-time hourly teachers make. I don't know if this is true for better international schools (which are rare), but it's definitely true for English centers.

With those numbers, I feel like I should've gone to China... although I hear it's a bit soul-sucking.

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #73 on: February 12, 2015, 02:29:18 PM »

arebelspy

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2015, 06:11:19 PM »
I recommended OP go for 2 yrs post-teaching certification experience at US schools because:
* That's what good int'l schools require before they will spring for an overseas hire
* OP sounds like they could use more experience before bringing cultural adjustments into the mix

ESL teaching as an overseas hire at a K-12 international school can be lucrative. At international schools in China's biggest cities (ie Shanghai and Beijing), overseas hire teachers with a Master's and 2 years experience can earn:
* US$4-6k+/month
* paid housing ($2k/month)
* round-trip airfare home every year
* other bonuses depending on where you work

This is just China, and salaries vary worldwide, but there is a huge difference in salary and benefits for an overseas hire vs. local hire teacher for international schools - like any business which requires expat staff. A local hire's salary/benefits can be half of an overseas hire who's gone through the hiring process remotely. It's market-driven; an overseas hire needs more incentive to come.

A good teacher friend of mine who I've known for years moved out of Vegas last summer and is teaching in Beijing right now. I emailed her upon reading your post about her salary.  Here's what she said:
Quote
My base salary is 21,000 yuan, and it can be up to 24,000 yuan (almost $4000).  You can earn back $300-500 a month by turning in “fappios,” the official government receipts, for food, taxi rides, flights and language school.  Housing counts, but to get about 25% of your rent back in salary, you must pay 5-10% of the rent to your landlord so they will issue you the rent fappio (because it costs them to print it).  The schedule is pretty easy, but you’re there 8-5, and the kids can be exhausting in their lack of awareness of others’ needs.  Still, I have more freedom in my schedule than better-paying international schools offer.  My particular campus is unique because we’re separate from the main campus of our host school, Beijing No. 4.  We each half one half to one full day without classes to plan per week, most of us have only 1-2 types of classes to prepare (it’s 10th-12th grade).  I also get to come in late two days a week, and my earliest class is 8 AM.  We have an hour lunch, totally free, and breakfast is free, too.

I’ve learned a lot about different types of international and public schools here, so I’d like to talk to you about it if you have time.  If you want the highest-performing students and highest-paying position, you should go with an international school like Dulwich, an international British campus that is worldwide.  http://www.dulwich-beijing.cn/ 

Details about working there: http://www.dulwich-beijing.cn/page.cfm?p=366; details about current openings = http://www.indulwich.com/careers/job-opportunities/ .  They include an apartment on the campus in an affluent, Western part of the city, PLUS pay you back cash for flights, PLUS you still earn the same tax benefits with the fappo.  However, they require a 3-year contract.  I have a friend who works there if you were to want a contact.

Technically, I have a 4800 yuan housing allowance, but that counts towards my salary.  It’s similar to other public Chinese schools’ AP/English-language campuses. but less than the international K-12 schools.  On the other hand, I earn twice as much as people who work for English-language schools that offer SAT, after-school English, or business English to clients.  Wall Street English is a world-wide version of those schools if you wanted to work with less of a contract and more nights instead of weekends.

Hope this helps!  I ended up typing out most of the details, but there’s still more that I could share over the phone as opposed to writing.  I’ve been happy with my position because I feel it offers more flexibility than the schools that cater to foreigners’ kids.
Quote
I forgot to say that I was only actually reimbursed for the visa fees, which equaled about $400 in the end.  The rest is through the tax credit.

So she's making about 40k USD, but says that other schools pay more.  Thought her details might be useful to those here.
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resy

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #75 on: February 13, 2015, 06:27:55 PM »
Can I be honest with you? You do seem to have other issues than just finances. Almost every second of your responses has "I don't know" somewhere in it. As a teacher you know the answer is that you need to learn or at least figure out what you don't know. You also don't seem to check facts. If the street is to dangerous to ride a bike, move somewhere else. If all streets are too dangerous, there is something wrong with your perception of danger. Get a cheap bike on craigslist. I can get a new bike every week for what you are paying on insurance and gas. A stolen bike is an inconvenience for a few days, not a financial issue. You can keep multiple bike in various safer places that are closer to your work. When we talk about a bike we talk about $40-100.
Im glad Im not the only one thinking thIs. Honestly, you sound like a very introverted person and that could be holding you back in a teaching environment. Im sorry if its harsh but you come off a bit helpless. The other posters have given GREAT advice that I see no problem with exploring but here seems to be a "but" for all the suggestions from your part.
Reevaluate if teaching is what you want to do, if it is, in what form/environment and then go for it. It'll take grit, somethibg you have to develop for yourself and doesnt sound like you've had the chance to.
good luck! :)

kmb501

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2015, 07:29:45 AM »
Can I be honest with you? You do seem to have other issues than just finances. Almost every second of your responses has "I don't know" somewhere in it. As a teacher you know the answer is that you need to learn or at least figure out what you don't know. You also don't seem to check facts. If the street is to dangerous to ride a bike, move somewhere else. If all streets are too dangerous, there is something wrong with your perception of danger. Get a cheap bike on craigslist. I can get a new bike every week for what you are paying on insurance and gas. A stolen bike is an inconvenience for a few days, not a financial issue. You can keep multiple bike in various safer places that are closer to your work. When we talk about a bike we talk about $40-100.
Im glad Im not the only one thinking thIs. Honestly, you sound like a very introverted person and that could be holding you back in a teaching environment. Im sorry if its harsh but you come off a bit helpless. The other posters have given GREAT advice that I see no problem with exploring but here seems to be a "but" for all the suggestions from your part.
Reevaluate if teaching is what you want to do, if it is, in what form/environment and then go for it. It'll take grit, somethibg you have to develop for yourself and doesnt sound like you've had the chance to.
good luck! :)

To be honest, sometimes I feel helpless. I have the educational background, and hopefully experience, needed to be a pretty decent teacher, and I love teaching. I can't get past the behavior I deal with as a sub, though. I sometimes hear such blatant disrespect that I wonder, "what is it about me that makes the kids think they can treat me that way?" It kind of eats away at my self-esteem. I do sometimes wonder if I can do a good job working with people, and it's all my affect. I'm flat and boring, at least the kids say so. I've tried to ignore them, but when you often get negative feedback about your performance and no other feedback, even if the negative feedback is from a quite unreliable source, you may start to believe it. Of course I want to be the teacher who comes in and totally transforms the kids, but I obviously haven't reached that point or anything close. It's really disappointing. 

KD

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2015, 09:42:04 AM »
I'd still suggest taking the Myers Briggs and then looking at the book "Do What You Are" by Tieger & Barron-Tieger.  There are loads of suggested career paths that an educational degree can take you down.  Looks on the surface of your posts that a one-to-one ratio in tutoring might be the best fit for you, but that might be totally not true. 

There are online MB tests that are free.  You could take a few different ones and see if your results consistently align.  Check the book out for free from your local library.  It contains quite a bit of insight into career paths for each personality type.

resy

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2015, 02:37:33 PM »
Can I be honest with you? You do seem to have other issues than just finances. Almost every second of your responses has "I don't know" somewhere in it. As a teacher you know the answer is that you need to learn or at least figure out what you don't know. You also don't seem to check facts. If the street is to dangerous to ride a bike, move somewhere else. If all streets are too dangerous, there is something wrong with your perception of danger. Get a cheap bike on craigslist. I can get a new bike every week for what you are paying on insurance and gas. A stolen bike is an inconvenience for a few days, not a financial issue. You can keep multiple bike in various safer places that are closer to your work. When we talk about a bike we talk about $40-100.
Im glad Im not the only one thinking thIs. Honestly, you sound like a very introverted person and that could be holding you back in a teaching environment. Im sorry if its harsh but you come off a bit helpless. The other posters have given GREAT advice that I see no problem with exploring but here seems to be a "but" for all the suggestions from your part.
Reevaluate if teaching is what you want to do, if it is, in what form/environment and then go for it. It'll take grit, somethibg you have to develop for yourself and doesnt sound like you've had the chance to.
good luck! :)

To be honest, sometimes I feel helpless. I have the educational background, and hopefully experience, needed to be a pretty decent teacher, and I love teaching. I can't get past the behavior I deal with as a sub, though. I sometimes hear such blatant disrespect that I wonder, "what is it about me that makes the kids think they can treat me that way?" It kind of eats away at my self-esteem. I do sometimes wonder if I can do a good job working with people, and it's all my affect. I'm flat and boring, at least the kids say so. I've tried to ignore them, but when you often get negative feedback about your performance and no other feedback, even if the negative feedback is from a quite unreliable source, you may start to believe it. Of course I want to be the teacher who comes in and totally transforms the kids, but I obviously haven't reached that point or anything close. It's really disappointing.
hmm. You know what came to mind? "Everybody is a genius but if you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid".
I'm sorry you are having a hard time. Try to not take it personal, kids are kids ya know? I really, really recommend exploring alternative ways of teaching (tutoring, etc) that may be more suited to your quiet nature. I am not a teacher but I sympathize in a way because as I age my introvertness is increasing and I know how distant it can make you feel.

mustachianteacher

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2015, 04:34:10 PM »
Can I be honest with you? You do seem to have other issues than just finances. Almost every second of your responses has "I don't know" somewhere in it. As a teacher you know the answer is that you need to learn or at least figure out what you don't know. You also don't seem to check facts. If the street is to dangerous to ride a bike, move somewhere else. If all streets are too dangerous, there is something wrong with your perception of danger. Get a cheap bike on craigslist. I can get a new bike every week for what you are paying on insurance and gas. A stolen bike is an inconvenience for a few days, not a financial issue. You can keep multiple bike in various safer places that are closer to your work. When we talk about a bike we talk about $40-100.
Im glad Im not the only one thinking thIs. Honestly, you sound like a very introverted person and that could be holding you back in a teaching environment. Im sorry if its harsh but you come off a bit helpless. The other posters have given GREAT advice that I see no problem with exploring but here seems to be a "but" for all the suggestions from your part.
Reevaluate if teaching is what you want to do, if it is, in what form/environment and then go for it. It'll take grit, somethibg you have to develop for yourself and doesnt sound like you've had the chance to.
good luck! :)

To be honest, sometimes I feel helpless. I have the educational background, and hopefully experience, needed to be a pretty decent teacher, and I love teaching. I can't get past the behavior I deal with as a sub, though. I sometimes hear such blatant disrespect that I wonder, "what is it about me that makes the kids think they can treat me that way?" It kind of eats away at my self-esteem. I do sometimes wonder if I can do a good job working with people, and it's all my affect. I'm flat and boring, at least the kids say so. I've tried to ignore them, but when you often get negative feedback about your performance and no other feedback, even if the negative feedback is from a quite unreliable source, you may start to believe it. Of course I want to be the teacher who comes in and totally transforms the kids, but I obviously haven't reached that point or anything close. It's really disappointing.

You know, this is the hardest thing about teaching. Kids can be brutal. FWIW, I have had a great reputation as a highly effective middle school teacher for sixteen years, and last week just SUCKED. I wasn't feeling well so I took a day off, the kids took advantage of the sub, and when I laid into them about, they couldn't have cared less. One even got up and walked out, muttering that this was all bullshit. It happens. I was so embarrassed that this wonderful, excellent sub -- she taught at our school for 20 years and is a beloved sub now -- had such a disastrous experience with "my" kids. But, everyone has days and classes like this; anyone who says they don't is either lying or delusional!

I would absolutely NOT judge your ability to teach by subbing. I mean, it might give you an inkling if you do it enough, but the way kids treat subs is not at all the same as the way they treat their own teacher.

kmb501

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #80 on: February 16, 2015, 08:33:22 PM »
Can I be honest with you? You do seem to have other issues than just finances. Almost every second of your responses has "I don't know" somewhere in it. As a teacher you know the answer is that you need to learn or at least figure out what you don't know. You also don't seem to check facts. If the street is to dangerous to ride a bike, move somewhere else. If all streets are too dangerous, there is something wrong with your perception of danger. Get a cheap bike on craigslist. I can get a new bike every week for what you are paying on insurance and gas. A stolen bike is an inconvenience for a few days, not a financial issue. You can keep multiple bike in various safer places that are closer to your work. When we talk about a bike we talk about $40-100.
Im glad Im not the only one thinking thIs. Honestly, you sound like a very introverted person and that could be holding you back in a teaching environment. Im sorry if its harsh but you come off a bit helpless. The other posters have given GREAT advice that I see no problem with exploring but here seems to be a "but" for all the suggestions from your part.
Reevaluate if teaching is what you want to do, if it is, in what form/environment and then go for it. It'll take grit, somethibg you have to develop for yourself and doesnt sound like you've had the chance to.
good luck! :)

To be honest, sometimes I feel helpless. I have the educational background, and hopefully experience, needed to be a pretty decent teacher, and I love teaching. I can't get past the behavior I deal with as a sub, though. I sometimes hear such blatant disrespect that I wonder, "what is it about me that makes the kids think they can treat me that way?" It kind of eats away at my self-esteem. I do sometimes wonder if I can do a good job working with people, and it's all my affect. I'm flat and boring, at least the kids say so. I've tried to ignore them, but when you often get negative feedback about your performance and no other feedback, even if the negative feedback is from a quite unreliable source, you may start to believe it. Of course I want to be the teacher who comes in and totally transforms the kids, but I obviously haven't reached that point or anything close. It's really disappointing.

You know, this is the hardest thing about teaching. Kids can be brutal. FWIW, I have had a great reputation as a highly effective middle school teacher for sixteen years, and last week just SUCKED. I wasn't feeling well so I took a day off, the kids took advantage of the sub, and when I laid into them about, they couldn't have cared less. One even got up and walked out, muttering that this was all bullshit. It happens. I was so embarrassed that this wonderful, excellent sub -- she taught at our school for 20 years and is a beloved sub now -- had such a disastrous experience with "my" kids. But, everyone has days and classes like this; anyone who says they don't is either lying or delusional!

I would absolutely NOT judge your ability to teach by subbing. I mean, it might give you an inkling if you do it enough, but the way kids treat subs is not at all the same as the way they treat their own teacher.

Maybe I'm a little too emotional about it, but those kids seem to have a certain power over me. They are the sincere appraisers of my performance, at least that's what I seem to believe. Their opinions of my performance in that classroom are often the only opinions on my performance I hear. When they say things like, "we can tell you ain't no good teacher," "I'm sorry; I just cannot take you seriously," or "you can't control this class, lady!" it cuts deep. I end the day feeling defeated, especially if it looks like those comments are true. 

KD

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2015, 07:03:12 AM »
Well, then are there additional 'Classroom Management' classes that you can take?  Go hang out in the teachers lounge and ask the other teachers for their tips & tricks.  IMHO, it's good to assess where your weakness are but then you DO something about them to bring them up to speed. 

Question...of the advice given above by various posters how many have you looked into actively pursuing since you first started the thread?

kmb501

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #82 on: February 17, 2015, 11:23:10 AM »
Well, then are there additional 'Classroom Management' classes that you can take?  Go hang out in the teachers lounge and ask the other teachers for their tips & tricks.  IMHO, it's good to assess where your weakness are but then you DO something about them to bring them up to speed. 

Question...of the advice given above by various posters how many have you looked into actively pursuing since you first started the thread?

I've taken a little of the advice posted on this thread so far. I would really be best as a private tutor, but those jobs are honestly hard to find. I went to a few of the teach from home websites and tried to register only to find that they already had a waiting list. Work from home occupations are popular, and tutoring is already pretty much a saturated market down here.

I have tried to be more assertive with the kids, but I'm an out-of-shape 20 something who needs to improve my visual appeal. They often do not take me seriously, and I think it is mostly concerning the way I look and act. I realize subbing isn't the job for me, but I haven't been able to find anything that pays well enough to allow me to support myself that does fit my niche.

KD

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #83 on: February 17, 2015, 01:11:08 PM »
Good on you for following up on it.

Here's a line when a child says something about you...smile & say"That very well may be, but we still have to do X." ...or an "I can see how you might think that, but what is the answer to the next problem?" Redirect them back to the task at hand.  If you are too rigid they will rebel.  Who's the adult here?  You, yes? 

MrsPete

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #84 on: February 17, 2015, 02:21:39 PM »
Can I be honest with you? You do seem to have other issues than just finances. Almost every second of your responses has "I don't know" somewhere in it. As a teacher you know the answer is that you need to learn or at least figure out what you don't know. You also don't seem to check facts. If the street is to dangerous to ride a bike, move somewhere else. If all streets are too dangerous, there is something wrong with your perception of danger. Get a cheap bike on craigslist. I can get a new bike every week for what you are paying on insurance and gas. A stolen bike is an inconvenience for a few days, not a financial issue. You can keep multiple bike in various safer places that are closer to your work. When we talk about a bike we talk about $40-100.
Im glad Im not the only one thinking thIs. Honestly, you sound like a very introverted person and that could be holding you back in a teaching environment. Im sorry if its harsh but you come off a bit helpless. The other posters have given GREAT advice that I see no problem with exploring but here seems to be a "but" for all the suggestions from your part.
Reevaluate if teaching is what you want to do, if it is, in what form/environment and then go for it. It'll take grit, somethibg you have to develop for yourself and doesnt sound like you've had the chance to.
good luck! :)

To be honest, sometimes I feel helpless. I have the educational background, and hopefully experience, needed to be a pretty decent teacher, and I love teaching. I can't get past the behavior I deal with as a sub, though. I sometimes hear such blatant disrespect that I wonder, "what is it about me that makes the kids think they can treat me that way?" It kind of eats away at my self-esteem. I do sometimes wonder if I can do a good job working with people, and it's all my affect. I'm flat and boring, at least the kids say so. I've tried to ignore them, but when you often get negative feedback about your performance and no other feedback, even if the negative feedback is from a quite unreliable source, you may start to believe it. Of course I want to be the teacher who comes in and totally transforms the kids, but I obviously haven't reached that point or anything close. It's really disappointing.

You know, this is the hardest thing about teaching. Kids can be brutal. FWIW, I have had a great reputation as a highly effective middle school teacher for sixteen years, and last week just SUCKED. I wasn't feeling well so I took a day off, the kids took advantage of the sub, and when I laid into them about, they couldn't have cared less. One even got up and walked out, muttering that this was all bullshit. It happens. I was so embarrassed that this wonderful, excellent sub -- she taught at our school for 20 years and is a beloved sub now -- had such a disastrous experience with "my" kids. But, everyone has days and classes like this; anyone who says they don't is either lying or delusional!

I would absolutely NOT judge your ability to teach by subbing. I mean, it might give you an inkling if you do it enough, but the way kids treat subs is not at all the same as the way they treat their own teacher.

Maybe I'm a little too emotional about it, but those kids seem to have a certain power over me. They are the sincere appraisers of my performance, at least that's what I seem to believe. Their opinions of my performance in that classroom are often the only opinions on my performance I hear. When they say things like, "we can tell you ain't no good teacher," "I'm sorry; I just cannot take you seriously," or "you can't control this class, lady!" it cuts deep. I end the day feeling defeated, especially if it looks like those comments are true.
This is just the stuff that kids do.  Even things they'd enjoy -- if they chose to do it -- like complete a science experiment or read a book, they dislike because they're being made to do it.  They often push just to see what they can get away with, and they do it more with a sub than with their own teacher. 

They do not have power over you, but you're handing it over to them through your inexperience. 
They are not qualified to appraise your performance - they're kids. 
Once they start making negative comments and see that they are hurting you, they will continue. 
The kids who behave this way don't think about you once they leave the classroom -- until they see you again -- but it's something they do to pass the time of day. 

Honestly -- and you're not going to like this -- you need to go somewhere else.  Subs have reputations, and it sounds like yours is fun-to-mess-with-young-girl.  I hear the kids saying, "Hey, Mrs ___ is subbing in Chemistry today." and other kids will answer either, "Sweet!  Free day!"  Or "Oh no.  She sent me to the office last time."   

former player

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #85 on: February 17, 2015, 02:38:57 PM »
I think you should look for small successes and each time you have one build on it.   Each time you walk into a classroom, try to do a little better: if something hasn't worked for you in a class you take, think about how you can change what you did for next time.  Write down what the problem was and brainstorm solutions, either to avoid it arising again or to deal with it better when it does arise.  Talk to the experienced teachers you come across, ask for their advice and get their tips and tricks.

I have tried to be more assertive with the kids, but I'm an out-of-shape 20 something who needs to improve my visual appeal. They often do not take me seriously, and I think it is mostly concerning the way I look and act. I realize subbing isn't the job for me, but I haven't been able to find anything that pays well enough to allow me to support myself that does fit my niche.
I wonder whether the biggest and quickest change you could do to improve your visual appeal and get the kids to take you more seriously might be to work on your posture.  Find your breastbone and lift it up: it will bring your chest up, your shoulders back and down and your chin up.  All that will make your figure look better and at the same time it will make you look more confident, authoritative and assertive.  It should also help you to feel better about yourself and more confident.   If you remember to lift your breastbone and chin up everytime you stand up from a chair or go through a doorway, it will start to become natural.  It's a small change, but one which you should be able to implement easily.

Sadly, we are all judged on how we look.  The quickest way to change the way we look is to improve our posture.  The best thing about it: changing our posture  is absolutely free.  If you have any doubts, take a look at the most successful and charismatic teachers you see: I bet they all have good posture, and I bet it is a part of what the kids are responding to without even knowing that they are doing so.

Good luck.


MDM

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Re: poor school teacher...
« Reply #86 on: February 21, 2015, 12:16:33 PM »
Responding to your post in the How To Write a Case Study thread:
I have something that I wanted as a case study, but I didn't title it that, and I've since added a few other threads with more information about my situation. Could you look over my threads and make a recommendation? Do I need to try to condense all of these threads into one?
Your second idea, "[combine the relevant information from] all of [your] threads into one," seems best.  Read the posts in the How To thread carefully (at least the ones suggesting How To) and follow the advice as applicable to your situation.  You are likely to get more specific responses that way.

kmb501

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Re: Case Study: poor school teacher...
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2015, 07:45:47 AM »
I think I have most of the relevant information from my other threads in this post now.

KD

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Re: Case Study: poor school teacher...
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2015, 08:14:19 AM »
I was cruising around Craigslist last night and in my area there was advertised a job for 'Young Rembrandts' which appears to be an afterschool arts program for very young children.  They are looking for teachers.  Is there such a business going anywhere in your area?  My thoughts are that younger children may very well be the answer to some of your classroom management problems - they don't tend to be nearly as snarky.  If you are even remotely artsy I'd check it out.

MDM

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Re: Case Study: poor school teacher...
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2015, 10:10:09 AM »
I think I have most of the relevant information from my other threads in this post now.
If you are getting the answers you need, then all is well.  If you are seeking more, you might put all the relevant information into a single post and ask the specific questions to which you want answers.

kmb501

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Re: Case Study: poor school teacher...
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2015, 11:40:46 AM »
I think I have most of the relevant information from my other threads in this post now.
If you are getting the answers you need, then all is well.  If you are seeking more, you might put all the relevant information into a single post and ask the specific questions to which you want answers.

Well, I edited my original post to include more information from my other posts, so those of you giving me advice might want to re-read it.