Author Topic: Should I move into management?  (Read 2654 times)

Alps

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Should I move into management?
« on: June 15, 2017, 04:37:32 AM »
Even though this is only indirectly related to this forum I would really like to get insights into how I should continue my career, from a set of very smart and diverse people!

So I've recently switched jobs and achieved the job title that I've always wanted (on an individual contributor level). I'm very happy! However, the company will grow either this year or in 2-3 years, which will likely mean splitting our group into several teams with new team leaders. I could see most or all of us becoming team leaders in the next years. I need to decide whether I want to position myself for moving into management (i.e. become a team leader) or whether I should concentrate on a career as an individual contributor.

Generally my bosses (all jobs, not just this one) seem to see me as management material, so I think I would likely be doing reasonably well. So far nothing has ever come of it because I left the job too early, but this is a company I can see myself staying at for a while. However, I'm really not sure if I want to move into management. I'm in my mid-thirties now and I feel like I want to decide now where I would like my career to go (of course things can and do change, but I like having a plan!). And I think when we expand things will happen quickly, so I want to be prepared.

Pros and cons:

Individual contributor
+ I very much enjoy the work. It is basically solving puzzles on a daily basis with very little fluff. I cannot stress enough how much I enjoy it.
+ At lot of the time I'm very happy I can just hide behind my monitor and not have to interact with anybody much.
+ I'm very good at project management, but I don't necessarily enjoy it, so I would prefer to do it for just my own projects.
- Right now I have a lot of responsibilities and can decide a lot on my own. This would decrease as more management levels are added, which I absolutely would not like. In that case, staying as an individual contributor would likely only work for me if I could remain below my current boss as a "team of one".
- Earning power is capped. I should get one significant raise in the next 1-2 years, but nothing else (there are no COL increases in my country).
- I have more talent for figuring out higher-level puzzles than for going into the nitty-gritty math.

Team leader
+ I'm ambitious and competitive and I would likely be unhappy should my now-peers all become team leaders while I remain on an individual contributor level, with only the new people to keep me company.
+ I would still be able to make important decisions and help shape the orientation of the department. I like talking to all sorts of people in the company who actually listen to my opinion.
+ Significant salary increase plus higher lifetime earning potential (should I want to move up levels)
+ With more management levels the most interesting puzzles might start to move up the chain as well. Hard to judge for me.
- I've been responsible for two interns so far. One was great, one horrible. The horrible one was on some level actually fun, because I was like "I can solve this!" (I couldn't). I had a problem with supervising the great intern, because as soon as I handed off the project to him I stopped being interested in the project. This is a big problem! It had nothing to do with the intern, it's a pattern with me that I'm only interested in whatever stuff I'm working on myself. I think I might be able to reframe it in my mind that the projects of my team are still "my" projects. But that's a big if.
- Less actual work that I'd be doing. I think as a team lead I could still do a lot though, so this to me is more of a concern if I would move up higher. However, I would say that I'm actually better with the big-picture stuff and not a genius at doing (though so far I've enjoyed the doing much more).
- More responsibility probably equals more sleepless nights. Not a fan.

Bonus problem: we're not hard-core mustachians and my/our path to FI includes working 80% until age 40, then reducing to part time (around 50%) for 10 more years to allow our stache to grow. 80% jobs are relatively easy to get here at all levels, but 50-60% not so much. I think it would be much easier to get a part-time job (or convert my then-job to part-time) on an individual contributor level. On the other hand I'm worried about not finding good jobs at age >40 if I remain on an individual contributor level, though it's hard for me to judge since the field is relatively new. On the other-other hand, with a significantly higher salary I could also see us working 80% a few more years and then retiring completely, which would also be acceptable.

Ok, that's it! What would you do? And am I missing any important points for either role?

Case

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2017, 04:58:58 AM »
Even though this is only indirectly related to this forum I would really like to get insights into how I should continue my career, from a set of very smart and diverse people!

So I've recently switched jobs and achieved the job title that I've always wanted (on an individual contributor level). I'm very happy! However, the company will grow either this year or in 2-3 years, which will likely mean splitting our group into several teams with new team leaders. I could see most or all of us becoming team leaders in the next years. I need to decide whether I want to position myself for moving into management (i.e. become a team leader) or whether I should concentrate on a career as an individual contributor.

Generally my bosses (all jobs, not just this one) seem to see me as management material, so I think I would likely be doing reasonably well. So far nothing has ever come of it because I left the job too early, but this is a company I can see myself staying at for a while. However, I'm really not sure if I want to move into management. I'm in my mid-thirties now and I feel like I want to decide now where I would like my career to go (of course things can and do change, but I like having a plan!). And I think when we expand things will happen quickly, so I want to be prepared.

Pros and cons:

Individual contributor
+ I very much enjoy the work. It is basically solving puzzles on a daily basis with very little fluff. I cannot stress enough how much I enjoy it.
+ At lot of the time I'm very happy I can just hide behind my monitor and not have to interact with anybody much.
+ I'm very good at project management, but I don't necessarily enjoy it, so I would prefer to do it for just my own projects.
- Right now I have a lot of responsibilities and can decide a lot on my own. This would decrease as more management levels are added, which I absolutely would not like. In that case, staying as an individual contributor would likely only work for me if I could remain below my current boss as a "team of one".
- Earning power is capped. I should get one significant raise in the next 1-2 years, but nothing else (there are no COL increases in my country).
- I have more talent for figuring out higher-level puzzles than for going into the nitty-gritty math.

Team leader
+ I'm ambitious and competitive and I would likely be unhappy should my now-peers all become team leaders while I remain on an individual contributor level, with only the new people to keep me company.
+ I would still be able to make important decisions and help shape the orientation of the department. I like talking to all sorts of people in the company who actually listen to my opinion.
+ Significant salary increase plus higher lifetime earning potential (should I want to move up levels)
+ With more management levels the most interesting puzzles might start to move up the chain as well. Hard to judge for me.
- I've been responsible for two interns so far. One was great, one horrible. The horrible one was on some level actually fun, because I was like "I can solve this!" (I couldn't). I had a problem with supervising the great intern, because as soon as I handed off the project to him I stopped being interested in the project. This is a big problem! It had nothing to do with the intern, it's a pattern with me that I'm only interested in whatever stuff I'm working on myself. I think I might be able to reframe it in my mind that the projects of my team are still "my" projects. But that's a big if.
- Less actual work that I'd be doing. I think as a team lead I could still do a lot though, so this to me is more of a concern if I would move up higher. However, I would say that I'm actually better with the big-picture stuff and not a genius at doing (though so far I've enjoyed the doing much more).
- More responsibility probably equals more sleepless nights. Not a fan.

Bonus problem: we're not hard-core mustachians and my/our path to FI includes working 80% until age 40, then reducing to part time (around 50%) for 10 more years to allow our stache to grow. 80% jobs are relatively easy to get here at all levels, but 50-60% not so much. I think it would be much easier to get a part-time job (or convert my then-job to part-time) on an individual contributor level. On the other hand I'm worried about not finding good jobs at age >40 if I remain on an individual contributor level, though it's hard for me to judge since the field is relatively new. On the other-other hand, with a significantly higher salary I could also see us working 80% a few more years and then retiring completely, which would also be acceptable.

Ok, that's it! What would you do? And am I missing any important points for either role?

Since you have stated "I cannot stress enough how much I enjoy my work (as an individual contributor", i would say stay where you are.  Assuming you make enough money as is to reach your goals in a reasonable time frame, selling out and moving into management may not be worth it.  You will have to make the call on what your price is to sell out, but by your own description you have what is for the most part a dream job.  When you love your work and get paid well for it, that is the dream.  Don't sell out unless you have an even bigger dream attached to getting more money.

TaraB

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2017, 05:56:04 AM »
Tough one, Alps.

As a supervisor/manager, there are all sorts of BS things to deal with....people calling out sick even though it's crunch time, annual reviews, refereeing disagreements between coworkers who act like children, deflecting the "i deserve a raise" conversations when you know there's no $ in the budget for raises, hunt down laptops that you ordered from IT 5 months prior that still haven't arrived.....

But you get to be "in charge". I've become the de facto person in charge by attrition at my location. Last week when the power went out to a subset of cubicles, I had to make sure everyone had a new place to work (rather than sitting at their desk staring at a blank monitor all day), then I had to make sure we contacted someone from facilities, then when the 2nd electrician showed up (after the problem had already been fixed), I had to find a key and let him into the utility room even though the 1st electrician ALREADY FIXED THE PROBLEM.

Today's crisis will likely involve stealing reams of paper because I'm sure we're out of it. ("The website isn't working to buy more....").

During crunch times I've often had to resort to early mornings and weekends to get my actual work done, so that I can answer questions all day every day.

The two employees I hired (because I was told I had to hire them because they knew people) have been taken away from me and moved to another team. Meanwhile my employee who got sick in March of 2016 is never coming back and nobody ever let me replace him.

OH! and when your employees mess up? YOU are the one who gets blamed/chastised/yelled at!

All this to say- middle management sucks TO ME. My current organization also sucks. But they pay me way too much to do what I do......

One way to get around job advancement and raises without having to go into management is to see if they can create tiers. So currently you could be a "Contributor II" and then you could work toward "Contributor III", IV, V, etc.

birdiegirl

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2017, 08:45:50 AM »
If you're somewhat interested in the management track, I think you should do it.  In my experience, if you decline to move into management once, you usually don't get a second chance (in the same organization).    If your bosses think you are management material, they see you have the skills and personality to be successful in a leadership role.   If you try it and hate it, you can always move back to an independent contribution role at some point. 

I've been in management for 6 years but am considering moving back to an individual contributor when it's time for my next job.  There has been a lot of stress and nonsense to deal with but at the same time managing really pushed me out of my comfort zone and I've learned a lot, so I certainly don't regret it at all. 

milliemchi

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2017, 10:20:07 AM »
I went into a small % effort management position because I've never done it and I find learning fun. It's a lot of BS, but I find personal growth rewarding. I was also bored with the nitty-gritty problem solving (which always entailed a lot of non-creative work to get the project finished) and wanted to work on bigger-picture stuff. Now I kind of miss the nitty-gritty, and I still have % effort assigned to that, so I'll return to that more this year. I'm in academia, and my perspective is that there are many people who can contribute at the defined project problem solving level, some of them better than I can. There are few academics who can also lead and deal with people though, so I think of myself as bringing more value as a manager, which makes me feel better.

dividendman

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2017, 10:27:23 AM »
Avoid management at all costs. It's the worst. I would only do it if the pay is significantly higher.

cats

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2017, 11:03:48 AM »
Do you have any opportunities to "try out" a management position? At my company, it is not uncommon for a manager to not be immediately replaced when they leave/retire.  Instead, people who are interested in the position will rotate through for 3-6 months and then a permanent replacement will be selected.

For myself I have pretty much decided I am more happy at an individual contributor level than in management.  I actually did a"what is management" class offered by my company a couple of years ago and my main take away was that it was quite a bit more time/responsibility for not necessarily a huge increase in pay.  In my case, management would mean more travel (not to fun or exciting locations) and also having to be "on call" more on evenings/weekends/during vacation.  I have a young child and my husband also works FT so more work responsibility really eats into our quite limited family/free time.  I think we are also at the point where putting any more time into work pursuits would necessitate putting money into outsourcing things like housecleaning or cooking, and potentially even childcare (beyond what we currently pay for). On the pay side, our household income is already high enough than any additional income will be taxed at a fairly high rate.  I would need to be getting a BIG raise to see a really appreciable difference in take-home pay.  Our family is also <5 years from FIRE as is, so there's a limit to how much the extra $$ would really cut our FIRE time.



Cezilous

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 11:21:20 AM »
Replying to follow.  I'm in a very similar situation.  Your pros and cons sound like mine.  I simply do not know what to do.  This thread is very timely.

MsSindy

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2017, 11:48:37 AM »
You're worrying about making a decision that isn't even on the table for you.  I would let Management know that you are interested in pursuing a Team Lead path - this way you show ambition.  Once the opportunity presents itself, you evaluate it then.  This way you can truly understand the type of work you'd be doing and what (if any) additional compensation you'd receive.  Be sure to really dig into the day-to-day responsibilities, overtime/on-call expectations, etc.  And if you don't think you would like that particular opportunity, you can discuss it with leadership at that time.

JJsfr

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 12:55:27 PM »
I can sympathize. I was where you were.

At some point you'll find that either a) you don't have enough influence on what you (or your group) is doing, or b) you don't like the idea of working for one of your colleagues or somebody else. A bad supervisor can be a major buzz kill on your happiness.

Reason a is the reason I went into management and I don't mind it at all. I went from being responsible for individual products to being responsible for my group's products. It was weird at first but I'm used to it. I wouldn't go back.

If you don't mind where you are at all, stick with it.

LAGuy

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 01:23:14 PM »
I don't know what your line of work is, but a lot of front line/first step management positions usually involve you busting on people for the lengths of their lunches and breaks. Even if you're a technical expert it's likely that your first gig will involve drone like work of reviewing time cards and crap like that. Personally, I too vote for staying out of it at all costs unless you're coming at it from an MBA angle and the executive suites are your goal.

Financial Ascensionist

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2017, 05:45:26 PM »
Former manager here.  Management can be a lot of fun and it is definitely not about tracking how long people spend on their lunch break.  It's very different than individual contributors work, obviously, and you should only go there if you are interested in learning and developing a whole new set of skills.

As a manager, you will have to step away from producing technical work and start focusing on your team members.  What are their ambitions, what are they good at, what does your project need?  Can you channel ambitions and skills into the needs of your projects?  If not, who on your team can you train to get the needed skills or who can you hire?  You will wake up asking yourself "is my team motivated and engaged?"  If so, what is working well?  If not, what are you going to do about it.  These are the kind of problems that you should really enjoy if you are to succeed into management.  The good news is that engaging in this career path is a completely reversible decision and that you can get back to an IC position if the team lead role does not work for you. 

Don't do it for the salary, do it if you enjoy human challenges.

Alps

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2017, 08:11:10 AM »
Thanks guys for your replies! It's great to get the full range of opinions.. and I haven't made any progress, because as I read along I'm completely convinced by every single post :D replies in no particular order:

You're worrying about making a decision that isn't even on the table for you.  I would let Management know that you are interested in pursuing a Team Lead path - this way you show ambition.  Once the opportunity presents itself, you evaluate it then.  This way you can truly understand the type of work you'd be doing and what (if any) additional compensation you'd receive.  Be sure to really dig into the day-to-day responsibilities, overtime/on-call expectations, etc.  And if you don't think you would like that particular opportunity, you can discuss it with leadership at that time.

It's true that it's not on the table right now, but as I said it might happen in the next 2-3 months. I've had the experience that I get what I want when I plant the seed early, so I need to say the right things in casual conversations/travel/friday beers when the topic comes up. But this is based on honesty - I don't think people would appreciate it if I keep dropping hints that I want to do A, and as soon as the opportunity presents itself I want to keep doing B after all. But I think you're right about understanding the type of work - it would be very similar to what my manager is doing now, so I think I'll start paying more attention to what she's doing day-to-day.

Since you have stated "I cannot stress enough how much I enjoy my work (as an individual contributor", i would say stay where you are.  Assuming you make enough money as is to reach your goals in a reasonable time frame, selling out and moving into management may not be worth it.  You will have to make the call on what your price is to sell out, but by your own description you have what is for the most part a dream job.  When you love your work and get paid well for it, that is the dream.  Don't sell out unless you have an even bigger dream attached to getting more money.

It is currently my dream job, true, but I've only been here a couple of months. If past experience is any indicator, the job (in my eyes, not because the job itself changes) will move towards "very good" within this year, and towards "yes this is a good job, but..." within two years. Also I definitely don't want to "sell out", that's why I'm asking here - I only want to make the switch if I would likely enjoy it.

Avoid management at all costs. It's the worst. I would only do it if the pay is significantly higher.

Well, yeah, it would be! I think about 30-50% higher, actually. My philosophy on salary is that my priority is working for a good cause in a job I enjoy, but on that basis I want to maximize my salary. For example, I personally would never want to work for a bank (even though it is extremely well paid), but in my line of work I definitely want to earn as much as possible and I'm actively looking for opportunities to do so.

 
If you're somewhat interested in the management track, I think you should do it.  In my experience, if you decline to move into management once, you usually don't get a second chance (in the same organization).    If your bosses think you are management material, they see you have the skills and personality to be successful in a leadership role.   If you try it and hate it, you can always move back to an independent contribution role at some point.   

I think so too, i.e. that if I decline once I can't do it again at the same company. But I was under the impression that it is also hard to move back to an IC role - but so far people seem to say that it'd be easy. That would definitely make it easier to just try and see how I like it.

I'm in academia, and my perspective is that there are many people who can contribute at the defined project problem solving level, some of them better than I can. There are few academics who can also lead and deal with people though, so I think of myself as bringing more value as a manager, which makes me feel better.

I'm not in academia, but we're all PhDs and I sometimes feel the same way, in that I think I would be bringing more value as a manager compared to my peers (and conversely that they could/do bring more value as ICs).

I don't know what your line of work is, but a lot of front line/first step management positions usually involve you busting on people for the lengths of their lunches and breaks. Even if you're a technical expert it's likely that your first gig will involve drone like work of reviewing time cards and crap like that. Personally, I too vote for staying out of it at all costs unless you're coming at it from an MBA angle and the executive suites are your goal.

Nope, not remotely interested in that! But I'm thinking about advancing in my particular company, and there is absolutely nothing like that going on. If anything it borders on too little management (I don't understand how my predecessor was allowed to ruin all those relationships I'm now repairing...). 

Do you have any opportunities to "try out" a management position? At my company, it is not uncommon for a manager to not be immediately replaced when they leave/retire.  Instead, people who are interested in the position will rotate through for 3-6 months and then a permanent replacement will be selected.
[...]
I would need to be getting a BIG raise to see a really appreciable difference in take-home pay.  Our family is also <5 years from FIRE as is, so there's a limit to how much the extra $$ would really cut our FIRE time.

That sounds like a great idea (for the participants at least - but what about those poor people who have a rotating set of inexperienced managers?) but I don't think this will happen. There is not a lot of structure here. That said, any appointment as team leader would surely start as a sort of trial period.
I don't know what counts as a big raise to you, but as I said above it would be 30-50% more, so to me this is very significant even after taxes.


As a supervisor/manager, there are all sorts of BS things to deal with....people calling out sick even though it's crunch time, annual reviews, refereeing disagreements between coworkers who act like children, deflecting the "i deserve a raise" conversations when you know there's no $ in the budget for raises, hunt down laptops that you ordered from IT 5 months prior that still haven't arrived.....
[...]
One way to get around job advancement and raises without having to go into management is to see if they can create tiers. So currently you could be a "Contributor II" and then you could work toward "Contributor III", IV, V, etc.

Ok, your list also doesn't sound appealing at all, except maybe refereeing the disagreements. If a restructure takes place your other point is definitely worth bringing up. As I said I think I would also be happy if I stay an IC under my current boss without being a team leader. I just don't want to get a new boss without having a say in it, and I would also not like reporting to my current coworkers (as I said, I'm competitive...).

At some point you'll find that either a) you don't have enough influence on what you (or your group) is doing, or b) you don't like the idea of working for one of your colleagues or somebody else. A bad supervisor can be a major buzz kill on your happiness.

Reason a is the reason I went into management and I don't mind it at all. I went from being responsible for individual products to being responsible for my group's products. It was weird at first but I'm used to it. I wouldn't go back.

Yeah I'm definitely worried about a) (if b) happens I would probably just look for a new job immediately). But do you feel the same attachment to your group's products as you felt to your individual projects? As I said (in that wall of text..) I'm not sure that I could have the same level of interest in projects that somebody else works on. So I'm wondering if it is different as a team leader, whether you think about your teams projects as your own (but then how do you avoid becoming a micromanager??).

As a manager, you will have to step away from producing technical work and start focusing on your team members.  What are their ambitions, what are they good at, what does your project need?  Can you channel ambitions and skills into the needs of your projects?  If not, who on your team can you train to get the needed skills or who can you hire?  You will wake up asking yourself "is my team motivated and engaged?"  If so, what is working well?  If not, what are you going to do about it.  These are the kind of problems that you should really enjoy if you are to succeed into management.  The good news is that engaging in this career path is a completely reversible decision and that you can get back to an IC position if the team lead role does not work for you. 

I *think* I would enjoy this. This was actually the best part of horrible intern. He wasn't a bad person, he was just incredibly unsuited (or unwilling, or on drugs - we never figured it out) for working. He had an even worse relationship with my boss, so I tried being a mediator and getting both to see the different viewpoints. I wasn't particularly successful, but I did prevent intern from giving boss "honest feedback" and some sort of precarious peace was achieved. So that was kind of fun, but I don't know if I would enjoy that on an ongoing basis (or waking up at night for that..??).
It also seems like these kinds of considerations take place after hours, because work time is booked with, well, work, and meetings.

So, general takeaway for me so far is:
* make sure what the actual, daily tasks would be in my company, and whether I would enjoy them (no time sheet tracking for me)
* everybody agrees that dipping a toe into management is reversible (I'm quite surprised by that actually, so far I've only heard the opposite)
* see if an IC career track could be implemented with the restructure

Thanks folks! More opinions still welcome of course :)

Schaefer Light

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2017, 08:41:09 AM »
I don't know what your line of work is, but a lot of front line/first step management positions usually involve you busting on people for the lengths of their lunches and breaks. Even if you're a technical expert it's likely that your first gig will involve drone like work of reviewing time cards and crap like that. Personally, I too vote for staying out of it at all costs unless you're coming at it from an MBA angle and the executive suites are your goal.

My job is kind of like that.  I often wonder why I went to engineering school do be doing this kind of work.  Those thoughts depress me, so I try to repress them and look at my paycheck to feel better ;).

Linea_Norway

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2017, 08:48:01 AM »
Sorry, haven't had time to read all the replies yet.

In middle management you often can do both, do some hands on puzzle solving work and some management. But you will notice that after some time, you won't be as sharp at the subject as the fulltime experts are. You just don't spend enough time on the subject.

Management in itself can be a nice challenge. And you can always try it for a few years and than retreat back to an expert function if you would rather do that. So my advice is, give it a try and go back if you don't like it.

Edit: I read some of the posts above now. My DH has for many years been a team leader and has built up a team from small and not making money to three times it's size and making good money. This is an interesting job, but you still depend on higher management listening to your advice. He also was an office (for one buildingmanager of a big company) once and that was a whole different role. Suddenly he was the person controlling the cleaning company of the building, the kind of tasks that usually are done buy someone else if you are a normal employee. And he was still depending on a region manager who he was reporting to. He couldn't change his office after his own ideas without support from region manager. So management is pretty broad.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 09:01:17 AM by Linda_Norway »

Schaefer Light

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2017, 09:32:19 AM »
I just thought of another thing you need to consider.  How do you feel about trying to get people on board with ideas you don't necessarily agree with yourself?  Or with enforcing rules or procedures you don't like that are pushed down from above?  It's likely that you will be asked to do this sort of thing, especially as the company gets bigger.  Bigger company = more stupid rules.

JJsfr

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2017, 09:39:26 AM »

At some point you'll find that either a) you don't have enough influence on what you (or your group) is doing, or b) you don't like the idea of working for one of your colleagues or somebody else. A bad supervisor can be a major buzz kill on your happiness.

Reason a is the reason I went into management and I don't mind it at all. I went from being responsible for individual products to being responsible for my group's products. It was weird at first but I'm used to it. I wouldn't go back.

Yeah I'm definitely worried about a) (if b) happens I would probably just look for a new job immediately). But do you feel the same attachment to your group's products as you felt to your individual projects? As I said (in that wall of text..) I'm not sure that I could have the same level of interest in projects that somebody else works on. So I'm wondering if it is different as a team leader, whether you think about your teams projects as your own (but then how do you avoid becoming a micromanager??).

As somebody else alluded to earlier in regards to the human challenge, it becomes less of a focus on individual projects, but more of how well your unit operates and the quality of the products that come out.

Micromanagers... That's something you'll have to figure out. You just have to remember that you don't have the capacity to do everything that's happening underneath you (that's why you have employees), and let them do their job.

Cezilous

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Re: Should I move into management?
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2017, 12:10:49 PM »
I just thought of another thing you need to consider.  How do you feel about trying to get people on board with ideas you don't necessarily agree with yourself?  Or with enforcing rules or procedures you don't like that are pushed down from above?  It's likely that you will be asked to do this sort of thing, especially as the company gets bigger.  Bigger company = more stupid rules.

^^I will second this.  In my company (about 65K-70K people now - holy moly!), this has become more of a thing as we keep moving into the future.  I started 6 years ago, and I'm not sure if this was 'a thing' back then, and I was just a little lamb who had no clue about any of this, or if we really are just changing with the times?  But I find all the new little stupid rules, the corporate speak and key words and phrases, changing our vision, etc. and management having to hop on board and parrot all this crap out with encouragement..  At first, I was all rosy-eyed at all the neat things they [corporate overlord] were doing, how positive they were, how nice they were being to employees, etc.. and how good it must be if my manager, who I trust very much, was all on board with it.  This was/is my first corporate job.  After 6 years, though, and dealing with all the BS despite being just a lowly cog in the machine, I can pick this shit out and either adopt it or leave it be, and I'm not even a pixel blip on the radar..but if I were to go into a management role, I'd have to adopt it all with a big fat smile and spread it around like happy candy.  I'm not sure I can do this.  I'm not a fake person, and I don't think I could do it for a slight pay bump.  If they want to double my pay, sure, I might bite, but..I think we're looking at 5-10% only.  Something to consider.