Author Topic: Case Study--FL  (Read 4637 times)

adieli

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Case Study--FL
« on: October 19, 2015, 04:55:34 PM »
Hello, fellow Mustachians!

I apologize as this may be long and a bit confusing post. I also apologize for any mistakes, English is not my native language.
We are late 30's-early 40's family with 2 kids: one middle schooler, one toddler.  Our combined current income is about 230K/yr.
We have no debt, paid off house (current value about 550-600K), and another ~500K in 401K/IRA accounts. 
My husband takes care of our finances since I am lazy and not as smart as he is, so he established an estimated retirement date as about 10 years from now (2 mil is our number).

The problem is--I really really hate my job.  Truly, I just want to quit and stay at home with my kids.  It is a healthcare position, so I work weird hours, weekends, 14 hour shifts, holidays, etc.  I am both physically and mentally exhausted, and I know for sure my kids are affected by it too.   But I can see that financially, it is probably not a good decision for us, since I bring home half of our income.

Another problem is that we live in a tiny house.  We are quite close to the beaches, hense the  pricetag.  My husband, having mustachian tendencies, took over our oldest kid's room as his work room/work out room, because he also slashed his gym membership.  So now, our oldest sleeps in our bedroom.  We tried to put the kids together in one room, but that did not work out, because the toddler wakes up several times at night, and our oldest really needs his rest otherwise it affects his school performance.  So, in theory, I am not opposed to moving away from this area and buying a McMansion for less than our current house is worth, because, really, we need 4 rooms to be comfortable at this point.  I mean, if anyone has a success story putting 2 kiddos who are different genders with a big age difference in one room, please, share.  The room my toddler is in is plenty big, but she wakes up so often that I don't see any other solutions...

I also don't particularly like the public school that we belong to.  It is heavily populated with Spanish speakers, Spanish is everywhere, in the parks, on playgrounds...my son has big problems finding playmates because Latin kids tend to form a group and he is always excluded...so I am thinking maybe there is a more "American" suburb that is cheaper...

The downside of moving would be loosing family support (grandparents) who help out with the kids a couple of times a week.  So I don't know whether factoring in a nanny may offset any potential savings on the real estate. Also, being a tiger mom, I would like to be close to an area that has good quality activities for school, such as ballet, rhythmic gymnastics, etc.

So, I guess, at this point, I would like some input on some inexpensive but areas in FL we can potentially move to that are hopefully not in the "boonies."
Also, any pharmacists out there are welcome to chime in and tell me about part time employment.  For some reason, I am scared that part time may mean that I am not going to be getting any hours...but I don't know the reality of it...


muckety_muck

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
    • Unmucking by 2022
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2015, 06:52:48 PM »
Hi- your income, net worth, etc. is all doing fabulous. 

I understand the job fatigue. Especially when your net worth is comfortable... like "what's the point" of working all these hours and killing myself and missing my kids, etc. I think that is normal when you are working odd hours, weekends, holidays, etc. 

Are you in Miami? Have you thought about moving a little farther out and inquiring if your in-laws/parents would consider relocating too? What is the likelihood that you and your husband could transfer to another office for your jobs?

If your middle schooler is the one sleeping in your bedroom, this may be difficult to maintain going forward. I would not enjoy sharing a room w/ my PARENTS while in middle school. Everybody needs some space, and boundaries are healthy. Do you have a garage? A sunroom? A covered porch? Anywhere else where your husband could move his gym space for now?

Have you thought about enrolling your son in spanish classes? bi-lingual/tri-lingual kids become adults with amazing job opportunities.

Good luck with your decisions. It sounds like moving may be the best option, but only if you can maintain some level of grandparent involvement and better school districts/lower housing costs.


snuggler

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2015, 08:38:30 PM »
To me, it seems silly to sell your house just because it seems small now, when your kids will likely be able to share a room soon. Presumably the toddler will have a normal sleeping schedule in a year or two max, and then your husband can have his work/workout room again.

Until then, can the older child take the bigger room, and could you still fit your husband's work and workout gear in there? Then your older child could have exclusive use of the room for certain hours in the day, and your husband can have exclusive use of the room during the other hours in the day. Then everybody gets some privacy, and your husband probably works mostly when your oldest child is at school anyway.

It is also really hard to give you specific advice when we don't know what areas you live in. Since you said you live close to the beaches, you might be able to get a house that is cheaper or equivalent in price, and a different school zone, without moving away from your family support, just by moving a couple of miles away from the beach.

Argyle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 909
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2015, 09:03:59 PM »
Why doesn't your toddler sleep in your room instead of your middle schooler?  Toddlers typically care a lot less about having their own rooms.

I don't think you need a McMansion to have a four-bedroom house.  My house has four bedrooms at it's only 1500 square feet but well-planned square feet.

I would look into the cost of houses that are a little farther from the beach but still close to grandparents.  You might be able to save money by having a smaller yard or whatever.

But if moving costs too much, it might be cheaper for your husband to buy gym membership again.

pbkmaine

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8275
  • Age: 62
  • Location: The Villages, Florida
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2015, 09:10:39 PM »
Can you add on to the house or finish the garage?

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4148
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2015, 02:05:30 AM »
Firstly, you are living in a country where your native language is not widely spoken, you are married, with two children, keeping house, a qualified pharmacist and working full time with long shifts to bring in an income of over $100,000 per annum.  Nothing about that says to me that you are lazy and unintelligent, so why the fuck would you say that you are?  I sincerely hope that it is not your husband or your children's grandparents who are telling you that.  Your start to feeling better about yourself and your situation is to own your own awesomeness.

Secondly, you say you live in a tiny house.  It's got three bedrooms: that is not tiny  - especially as at least two of the bedrooms sound pretty big (any chance of partitioning one of them into two?).  Your main problem is your husband's selfishness in appropriating so much space to himself - it would be cheaper for him to go back to paying to go to a gym rather than moving to a bigger house.  If he won't go back to a gym, I agree with the suggestions about moving his man-cave to the garage, to a covered porch, to a shed in the garden or to a corner of the garden covered by an awning.  If he won't do either of those, I agree that your middle-schooler is most in need of the separate bedroom.  Would I be right in suspecting that the reason you have the middle schooler in your bedroom is because your husband doesn't want to deal with the toddler waking up so often?  From now on, he gets a choice: his man-cave or his uninterrupted nights' sleep.  (The toddler will at some point need her own room, in which case the man-cave goes at that point anyway, so from that point of view he might as well give it up now.)  Apart from the bedrooms issue, take a look at the decluttering and KonMarie threads here: the less stuff you have in your house the bigger it will feel, the easier it will be to clean and maintain and the more fun it will be to live in.

Thirdly, schooling.  Are you sure that your son's issues with making friends are down to ethnic groups excluding him, or is he just introverted?  No point moving to the suburbs just to find the same issue arising because he cannot or does not want to integrate into the new group.  Unless he is the only non-Spanish-speaker in his year, there are friends available to him where he is.  If he is the only non-Spanish speaker in his year, he had better learn to speak Spanish - it will serve him well whatever he does in life.  The same goes for after-school activities.  The point for children is not to have everything available to them but for them to make the most of what is available - that too will serve them better in life than being yet another cookie-cutter kid ferried around the suburbs to the socially-approved activities for that particular suburb.

sd85

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2015, 08:39:50 AM »
Your husband sounds extremely selfish---he kicked a kid out of his own room just so he could have a cheaper place to workout. Even as a kid, it would be apparent to me that my Dad found me to be an EXTREMELY low priority--so much so that he is unwilling to spend $19 or so on a cheap gym so I can have my own room. And now the middle schooler is sleeping in the same room as his parents? That's sounds pretty messed up for having an upper-middle class income. Not to mention having a kid that age in the same bedroom is going to lead to you guys having a great sex life. So, essentially, your husband isn't willing to pay a couple bucks a month in order to have sex and have a place for his kid to sleep. Ouch. I'd say there are far bigger problems here than you disliking your job.

Bucksandreds

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2015, 08:49:45 AM »
I vote for you quitting work, keeping the house and telling your husband to get a gym membership.  You guys are well on your way.

patrickza

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 543
  • Age: 40
    • The Investor Challenge
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2015, 08:52:59 AM »
Your husband sounds extremely selfish---he kicked a kid out of his own room just so he could have a cheaper place to workout. Even as a kid, it would be apparent to me that my Dad found me to be an EXTREMELY low priority--so much so that he is unwilling to spend $19 or so on a cheap gym so I can have my own room. And now the middle schooler is sleeping in the same room as his parents? That's sounds pretty messed up for having an upper-middle class income. Not to mention having a kid that age in the same bedroom is going to lead to you guys having a great sex life. So, essentially, your husband isn't willing to pay a couple bucks a month in order to have sex and have a place for his kid to sleep. Ouch. I'd say there are far bigger problems here than you disliking your job.
I totally agree, and I must say I do quite like the fact that members here don't hold back when they see injustice!

FLBiker

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 954
  • Age: 42
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2015, 09:05:36 AM »
I agree with revisiting how that third bedroom is used.  I don't think having a middle schooler in your room (or with a toddler, for that matter) is a great plan.  Three bedrooms are enough, but not with one of them out of commission as a home gym.  If your husband truly needs a gym membership, it's not that expensive.  I also live in Florida, and I bike / run outside year round.  Personally, I prefer sweating outside.

Being miserable at your job for 10 years isn't sustainable.  While FIRE is a great goal, we have no idea what is going to happen to us over the next 10 years, so sacrificing completely for some unknown future seems stupid to me.  I'm all for saving a lot and getting financial independence, but we need to enjoy the journey, not just the destination.

What about quitting your job and moving away from the beach?  In my neck of the woods (Tampa) housing is very affordable once you're not on the beach.  We've got a 4 bedroom place that's currently valued ~$175K.  And our insurance is much lower than beachfront, too.

skunkfunk

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1057
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Oklahoma City
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2015, 09:44:57 AM »
Here's the extreme solution. Sell the house. Move to a lower COL area. Parts of the midwest, you can get a very nice 4 bedroom house for $200k. At that point, your net worth is high enough to retire both of you without having to be particularly frugal in a lower cost area. You'll have 300k left from the sale to live on (plus whatever you make working at jobs you now have the power to choose based on things other than $) while you wait for your roth IRA rollovers to season for 5 years.

adieli

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2015, 10:52:43 AM »
Wow, lots of replies.  Thanks everyone!
Let me address some of the questions that were raised:

1. Due to my weird hours, we try to work somewhat opposite schedules.  It also makes it difficult for him to actually go to a gym because he is usually with kids or it is late at night when he is able to work out.  So, being gracious wife, I allow him to have the crap in my house, although I hate it.  We have a "den" in the house that is about the size of a double walk in closet, I am thinking of making it into the toddler room...although I don't know. FLBiker--my husband used to run outside along the beach too.  But he likes his weight lifting routine, what can I say.  I don't do any sports myself so I can't comment lol.

2. School-- my oldest kid is different in the sense that languages are very difficult for him.  He never mastered my native language although he understands it and can even read it somewhat. He is taking Spanish in school, but it just not sinking in.  It may be true that he is a bit introverted and may have issues even if we move to suburbs.  He is not a "loner," he's got a couple of friends but the sense of "belonging" to a school community is definitely missing here.  In contrast--my 3 year old is trilingual, no Spanish though.  That is the reason I am considering a move--prob Broward or Palm Beach counties.  Yes we are in Miami. Tampa--never thought of it.  Maybe.  The grandparents are not going to move--that topic was discussed with them already, they are stuck in their ways.  I am also somewhat intrigued by the idea of homeschooling, due to atrocious program in FL.  I do not feel the structure of the program and the way subjects are covered provides for the best education, but that is entirely different topic altogether.

3. My husband is the financial analyst for our family.  I joke that it is because I am too lazy and stupid, but I really don't want to deal with the finances.  We may never be able to reach our goal because what if one of us looses the job tomorrow--it can happen.  So, conservatively, 10 year plan may not be too bad, although I nag every day about hating my job.  The problem is that if he looses his job it would be harder for him to find one.  Same thing is true for me--if I quit, it would be hard to find employment, I have some collegues who are struggling right now. 

Anyhow, if fellow Floridians want to give me tips, please, provide me some zipcodes so I can search.  I need the schools to be good though, so at least an 8 or 9 on greatschool rankings.

I am truly thankful for all your comments!!!

CmFtns

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 583
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Melbourne, Fl
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2015, 12:23:04 PM »
My first suggestion is that you read around this forum and see if the type of lifestyle promoted here is for you. I think you will find there are many people on here, with families, who live on less than half your household income, but also put more than 50% into savings. Also, many people here are planning on retiring or retired, right now, off similar net worth to what you currently have.

If you can move to a lower cost area, and adopt a truly mustacian lifestyle, you would be in a scenario where you could quit your job today and not worry about a new one... ever... but also, the next day, your husband can quit his job and not worry about a new one... ever. Then you can easily relocate to a lower cost area, with your larger house, with your good schools.

I live in 32904 and the cost of living is a lot different then how you describe your area. There are hundreds of cookie cutter 2500sqft 4br houses for < 250k in subdivisions and also many large houses in a more country setting outside of subdivisions for a similar price. I'm not sure how the schools are and i'm not even necessarily saying that this area is best for you but I do know that there are many area's of Florida with similar cost outside of the big cities. There is a reason so many people retire in Florida. Great weather and low cost of living in areas that aren't central Orlando, Miami, Tampa, etc.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 12:27:39 PM by comfyfutons »

pbkmaine

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8275
  • Age: 62
  • Location: The Villages, Florida
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2015, 01:23:45 PM »
Make the den into the toddler room. A toddler bed will fit along the narrower side of the room or you can construct a foam mattress to fit. Later you can loft a bed. That will solve your space problem for a bit. You are forbidden from calling yourself stupid! You sound very smart to me. As far as Spanish goes, there are some great language apps for kids that make it into a game. Try looking on iTunes.

MacGyverIt

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
  • Location: Not in a tropical, underpopulated location. And that's just wrong.
  • What Would MacGyver Do?
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2015, 01:32:19 PM »
We have a "den" in the house that is about the size of a double walk in closet, I am thinking of making it into the toddler room...although I don't know. FLBiker--my husband used to run outside along the beach too.  But he likes his weight lifting routine, what can I say.
Either your husband's equipment or the toddler's room, this is a room that can be used for something more constructive.

3. My husband is the financial analyst for our family.  I joke that it is because I am too lazy and stupid, but I really don't want to deal with the finances.
Please, please NEVER DEGRADE YOURSELF, EVEN IN JEST. Calling yourself "lazy and stupid" isn't an example to set for your children. Respect yourself as you would respect your most esteemed friend or co-worker and do not say things about yourself, either an "internal monologue" or on a website, that you wouldn't say about a loved one. This is more important than what to do with the spare bedroom. Peace.

/rant
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 01:35:25 PM by MacGyverIt »

sunday

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 202
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2015, 02:03:37 PM »
How much work/gym equipment is there that your husband is now storing your child's room? Can this be pared down and then moved into the garage, a screened in porch, or an added on sunroom? Having your toddler sleep in your bedroom can't be good for marital relations. I'm surprised your husband would prefer this setup.

Another option, if you live in such a prime beach location, maybe you can rent your house out and find a larger rental home in a more inland area, while still being close to your family and keeping your jobs?

Bettis

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 196
  • Location: MA
Re: Case Study--FL
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2015, 07:46:20 AM »
3. My husband is the financial analyst for our family.  I joke that it is because I am too lazy and stupid, but I really don't want to deal with the finances.
Please, please NEVER DEGRADE YOURSELF, EVEN IN JEST. Calling yourself "lazy and stupid" isn't an example to set for your children. Respect yourself as you would respect your most esteemed friend or co-worker and do not say things about yourself, either an "internal monologue" or on a website, that you wouldn't say about a loved one. This is more important than what to do with the spare bedroom. Peace.

/rant
[/quote]

Quoted for truth.  I do it all the time and that's certainly no way to treat yourself.  Show yourself as much respect as you would show anyone else.  Check your library for the Feeling Good book by David Burns and give it a read.