Car Totaled

[jrhampt]

Someone ran a stop sign at full speed and t-boned my 2013 Honda Fit (I am fine aside from a few cuts and bruises - got lucky that the air bags deployed and he hit me where he did instead of just a little farther down).  The car, however, is now totaled even though it still had less than 100k miles on it and was probably good for another 10 years at least had this not happened to it.  Anyway, I am very thankful to have a great stash whenever any disaster happens because money is one less thing to worry about.

I work remotely and can walk to lots of places downtown (pcp/doctor, pharmacy, library, fitness studios, grocery stores etc.) so I don't have a huge immediate pressing need for a car, but there are some things outside of biking/walking range for me including aging parents/in laws, and I do want to replace it with something more fuel-efficent, ideally a small compact or subcompact plug-in hybrid that gets >50mpg and at least a little electric range.  Aside from fuel-efficiency, reliability and reasonable cost are the only other factors I care about in a car.  I had been idly considering something along the lines of the Prius Prime or the Hyundai Ioniq plug-in at some point in the future but the future has arrived sooner than expected.  Anyone have a car that fits my criteria that they would like to make a good case for?  I'm thinking I will likely buy new since used cars are still ridiculously priced, and my spouse's employer offers a small incentive for electric and/or hybrid vehicles.  I think the Prius has probably exhausted its incentives for now although the new bill (Inflation Reduction Act) may expand those if it passes.

[uniwelder]

Would it be feasible to rent a vehicle for the times you need one until the car market settles down? Potentially a full year?

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Yeah, I was new car curious so visited a dealership this week.  On a $30k list priced car, they wanted $5k right out of the gate to compensate for 'limited inventory'.  With all the other non-negotiables then Title, Tax, and License we were talking $43k...  They didn't even flinch when I said 'thanks for the info' and walked out the door.  Gone are the days when they chase you down to make their 'one final offer'...  Maybe I would've had a longer conversation if financing were involved, and this might just be anecdotal, but it's a really bad time to be buying a car right now.

[chemistk]

If you really want to go that route (new), your best bet is to order a car and then use alternate modes of transportation until your car arrives. You'd be able to avoid the stupid dealer markups at the expense of not having your own car for a few months.

I'd think for a while though about what you need from a car (and if you need one) and narrow the list of 'must haves' to your absolute non-negotiables. You might be able to find a used car that would work for you (especially if you're only in need of the same approximate size that the Fit gave you).

Regarding the accident, maybe this goes without saying but it always, always bears repeating - you should be very cognizant of your body after the incident and try to pursue as much compensation from the other party's insurance as you can. A T-bone that deploys the airbags can lead to lifelong lingering issues that might not immediately show themselves. The insurance company will try and close the case quickly because they know this, and they're incentivized to do so. It's critical that you're absolutely sure that your body is in as good a shape as it was prior to the crash - otherwise you're going to be personally on the hook for the medical costs.

[Michael in ABQ]

I had my car totaled when someone rear-ended me as I was stopped at a yield sign. Blue book on my car (15-20 years old) was only $1,500 or so but they paid out over $2k - even though it already had a salvage title from a previous minor accident where somebody hit me.

I did go to urgent care later that day for some pain in my shoulder and neck and later that night to the ER when my arm started to tingle and feel a bit numb. Pretty sure it was just a pinched nerve from the inflammation. After they gave me an anti-inflammatory it went away in a few minutes. Within a week or so I felt fine. The other driver's insurance paid out a few thousand for pain and suffering, even though my actual out-of-pocket medical costs were maybe $100-200. I didn't even have to press them for that, it was their initial offer which I felt was more than adequate to compensate for a day or two of lost work and a week of being sore.

So, I would expect that if the air bag deployed you will probably be looking at a few thousand dollars or more from their insurance company without batting an eye. Potentially much more.

[ChpBstrd]

If this happened to me, I'd look at a 2022 Toyota Corolla Hybrid or a Prius.

Corolla Hybrid
$24,050
53/52 mpg
It's approximately the most reliable/durable car you can buy. 15 years or 250-300k miles is a reasonable expectation.
One of the cheapest 5-year costs of ownership of any car
1.9% financing which is less than you could earn on treasury notes right now (!!!)

https://www.toyota.com/corollahybrid/

Prius Hybrid
$24,050
58/53 mpg
Also legendary reliability and durability
Also one of the cheapest 5 year cost of ownership
Also 1.9% financing
Better storage flexibility than the Corolla

https://www.toyota.com/prius/

I recommend special ordering one of the above with NO ADD ONS (say you'll cancel the deal if it arrives with so much as a bumper applique) and no financing fees.

[jrhampt]

Thanks for the advice to special order a car...I think that's probably the route I'll go unless I can find something used that's reasonable, and I like the suggestions of the toyota corrolla or prius hybrids.  I do realize it's a very bad time to be looking for a car, but I don't really think it's feasible to occasionally rent one until the market stabilizes.  I can wait a few weeks or maybe months, though.

I did go to the ER on the advice of the first responders, and they checked me out to make sure I didn't have a concussion or anything.  I feel ok now, but we'll see how I feel over the next couple of weeks. 

[SunnyDays]

When you say your car is totaled, how damaged is it?  You might want to look into the possibility of buying it back and having it repaired, although this can be a VERY time consuming process.  Ask me how I know.  However, I have zero regrets doing this with my 2003 Matrix that was written off last summer, and now is back to it's original condition, which is great.  It did cost about 2K in rentals, etc, but I love that car and would do the same thing again.

[jrhampt]

When you say your car is totaled, how damaged is it?  You might want to look into the possibility of buying it back and having it repaired, although this can be a VERY time consuming process.  Ask me how I know.  However, I have zero regrets doing this with my 2003 Matrix that was written off last summer, and now is back to it's original condition, which is great.  It did cost about 2K in rentals, etc, but I love that car and would do the same thing again.

It’s bad…front and side airbags all deployed, frame is bent, axle is toast, loads of body damage, and it was already a salvage title when I bought it several years ago.  It’s not drivable.  I had to crawl out the other side. 

[ChpBstrd]

Thanks for the advice to special order a car...I think that's probably the route I'll go unless I can find something used that's reasonable, and I like the suggestions of the toyota corrolla or prius hybrids.  I do realize it's a very bad time to be looking for a car, but I don't really think it's feasible to occasionally rent one until the market stabilizes.  I can wait a few weeks or maybe months, though.

It's actually not hard for the dealerships to locate a car a state or two away, and to have it loaded on the next truck that's already headed their direction. They send car haulers back and forth all the time to balance out inventories.

The last and only time I bought a new car, the dealership transported it in from 500 miles away for no extra charge other than the "delivery" fee that was already tacked onto the cars sitting on the lot! More importantly, all the cars on the lot had $1000-3000 in add-on options, and I was able to specify my special order base model car not to have any options - not even a decal from the dealership. I even specified the color. I negotiated my offer down from 5 to 2 oil changes as a negotiation reciprocation, but was firm on price. 

Don't let any car salesperson talk you into buying more "features" than you need, paying above sticker, or paying crazy financing fees. Tell them exactly what you want, how much you'll pay, how you expect the entire quote with all fees in writing, and how willing you are to walk if you don't get what you want. Also specify in advance that you have no more than 2 hours you're able to spend with the salesperson that day so they don't sunk-cost you 5-6 hours of your life "talking to the manager".

If they come along with some bullshit about the world being out of cars, maybe ask them how the world still has so many car salespeople. When they resist or cause delays, politely say "I'm sorry I was unable to buy a car from you today like I had hoped, gotta go", write your number on a piece of paper and say call me if you change your mind within the next 24 hours. Then go to the next dealership and repeat. You don't have any leverage until you walk away at least once.

You're looking for a salesperson who is willing to cut a low-margin deal (meaning $500-$1000 profit for an afternoon's work) to make their end-of-month quota in exchange for minimal fuss. You're agreeing to buy the car immediately if they meet ALL your firm, written terms. Say "I'm willing to sign on the line right now!" Instead of resisting their attempts to sell you, you are trying to sell them on the idea of the deal. Flip the script, walk away, watch for unexpected fees *accidentally* added at the last minute, don't budge from your initial offer, read every line of every thing, and no matter what be urgent, polite, and businesslike.

[ender]

You're looking for a salesperson who is willing to cut a low-margin deal (meaning $500-$1000 profit for an afternoon's work) to make their end-of-month quota in exchange for minimal fuss. You're agreeing to buy the car immediately if they meet ALL your firm, written terms. Say "I'm willing to sign on the line right now!" Instead of resisting their attempts to sell you, you are trying to sell them on the idea of the deal. Flip the script, walk away, watch for unexpected fees *accidentally* added at the last minute, don't budge from your initial offer, read every line of every thing, and no matter what be urgent, polite, and businesslike.

Uh, what you really are looking for is a dealership which is having troubles moving cars at this point.

And for new cars? That's nearly no dealerships at all.

[AccidentialMustache]

If you're near a major metro, 2nd gen chevy volt? Ticks most of the boxes -- but is slightly larger than your ex-fit.

Time is on your side since you don't *need* one. Go test drive one anywhere you can and then start lurking carvana and edmunds and co and set price alerts and wait.

If you didn't want to do trips, I might say used chevy bolt, but those charge dog slow so maybe not.

[ChpBstrd]

You're looking for a salesperson who is willing to cut a low-margin deal (meaning $500-$1000 profit for an afternoon's work) to make their end-of-month quota in exchange for minimal fuss. You're agreeing to buy the car immediately if they meet ALL your firm, written terms. Say "I'm willing to sign on the line right now!" Instead of resisting their attempts to sell you, you are trying to sell them on the idea of the deal. Flip the script, walk away, watch for unexpected fees *accidentally* added at the last minute, don't budge from your initial offer, read every line of every thing, and no matter what be urgent, polite, and businesslike.

Uh, what you really are looking for is a dealership which is having troubles moving cars at this point.

And for new cars? That's nearly no dealerships at all.

I searched cars.com for new Corolla hybrids within 50 miles of me and got 324 matches. There were 220 Priuses. I think the shortages are limited to non-mustachian cars.

[jrhampt]

If you're near a major metro, 2nd gen chevy volt? Ticks most of the boxes -- but is slightly larger than your ex-fit.

Time is on your side since you don't *need* one. Go test drive one anywhere you can and then start lurking carvana and edmunds and co and set price alerts and wait.

If you didn't want to do trips, I might say used chevy bolt, but those charge dog slow so maybe not.

That's also a car I've had my eye on (the volt, I agree the bolt charges slow and I'd prefer a hybrid).  I have an alert in cargurus.

[jrhampt]

You're looking for a salesperson who is willing to cut a low-margin deal (meaning $500-$1000 profit for an afternoon's work) to make their end-of-month quota in exchange for minimal fuss. You're agreeing to buy the car immediately if they meet ALL your firm, written terms. Say "I'm willing to sign on the line right now!" Instead of resisting their attempts to sell you, you are trying to sell them on the idea of the deal. Flip the script, walk away, watch for unexpected fees *accidentally* added at the last minute, don't budge from your initial offer, read every line of every thing, and no matter what be urgent, polite, and businesslike.

Uh, what you really are looking for is a dealership which is having troubles moving cars at this point.

And for new cars? That's nearly no dealerships at all.

I searched cars.com for new Corolla hybrids within 50 miles of me and got 324 matches. There were 220 Priuses. I think the shortages are limited to non-mustachian cars.

Hmm, I did a search for new prius primes within 50 miles of me and only got 1 result.  I went to a dealership yesterday and they had no priuses in stock at all, of any model.  They said they have 4 people on a waiting list and they would order me one for 2k above MSRP.  I said no, so they said 1k above MSRP, so I left.  I'll try emailing some dealerships today, but they do appear to be hard to get right now.  The couple of used primes near me are listed for 5k+ above MSRP for a new one.  Might be easier to find one that's not a plug-in hybrid.  I also checked the lot of the Hyundai dealership near me and they have no hybrids whatsoever and no Ioniqs at all.

[chemistk]

You're looking for a salesperson who is willing to cut a low-margin deal (meaning $500-$1000 profit for an afternoon's work) to make their end-of-month quota in exchange for minimal fuss. You're agreeing to buy the car immediately if they meet ALL your firm, written terms. Say "I'm willing to sign on the line right now!" Instead of resisting their attempts to sell you, you are trying to sell them on the idea of the deal. Flip the script, walk away, watch for unexpected fees *accidentally* added at the last minute, don't budge from your initial offer, read every line of every thing, and no matter what be urgent, polite, and businesslike.

Uh, what you really are looking for is a dealership which is having troubles moving cars at this point.

And for new cars? That's nearly no dealerships at all.

I searched cars.com for new Corolla hybrids within 50 miles of me and got 324 matches. There were 220 Priuses. I think the shortages are limited to non-mustachian cars.

Hmm, I did a search for new prius primes within 50 miles of me and only got 1 result.  I went to a dealership yesterday and they had no priuses in stock at all, of any model.  They said they have 4 people on a waiting list and they would order me one for 2k above MSRP.  I said no, so they said 1k above MSRP, so I left.  I'll try emailing some dealerships today, but they do appear to be hard to get right now.  The couple of used primes near me are listed for 5k+ above MSRP for a new one.  Might be easier to find one that's not a plug-in hybrid.  I also checked the lot of the Hyundai dealership near me and they have no hybrids whatsoever and no Ioniqs at all.

If you're going to order one, it's not going to be at a discount. With inventories as they are, the dealership has no incentive to sell you a car for less than MSRP, knowing that someone else will come along and agree to the markup. Honestly, getting a new Toyota hybrid at "only" $1k above MSRP is pretty good with the vehicle market as it is.

If you're willing to transact across state lines, you can always locate an area that does have inventories, and call around to a few of those dealerships and get a tentative offer in writing - then travel to that area, purchase the car, and drive it home. I am not kidding about this one. Sure, you could have it shipped but it might be just as much as going and getting it yourself.

If the Volt is your ideal car (a good choice, TBH) - look at CarMax's nationwide inventory. There are 11 Gen2 Volt's as of this post in stock, and you can have any of them transferred to your local CarMax for a very nominal fee. The prices are better than what I can find in my local area (also as of this post). No haggling, no negotiating, no tire kicking - just have it shipped, and then bring in your form of payment and drive away.

[reeshau]

If you're willing to transact across state lines, you can always locate an area that does have inventories, and call around to a few of those dealerships and get a tentative offer in writing - then travel to that area, purchase the car, and drive it home. I am not kidding about this one. Sure, you could have it shipped but it might be just as much as going and getting it yourself.

This is exactly what I did to get my Chrysler Pacifica hybrid--last year.  At the time, I got $6,500 cash back, plus the Fed incentive.  But the availability was bad even back then, because the plant was shut down in favor of producing more pickup trucks.  There were 5 in the country with the color combination and features we wanted.  Luckily, a small town Ohio dealership was easy to work with.

There is no haggling in a situation like that.

The other difference is, at that time, air fares were cheap, too.  A same day, one-way ticket was $250.  I had been prepared for $1,000.  Rental cars were also scarce already, back then, so I got that first, and flew to the airport where I could rent a car.  They were so scarce, that someone tried to open my trunk, even as I was adjusting the car to drive away in it.

[jrhampt]

I suppose I could get an old Prius w >100k miles for around $5k and drive it into the ground until the world rights itself again.  Not sure how long those batteries last though.

[chemistk]

I suppose I could get an old Prius w >100k miles for around $5k and drive it into the ground until the world rights itself again.  Not sure how long those batteries last though.

I'm not an industry expert by any means, but I don't really see us getting back to the point where you can walk into a dealership and haggle down the price of a car by a couple thousand. I'm reasonably confident (at least, I've convinced myself) that getting a car at invoice or lower, outside demographic specific promotions, isn't going to come back.

-Automakers are shifting more and more development dollars to fully electric vehicles, and until the market is saturated, customers are going to continue to pay a premium for BEV's due to limited production, desirability, or both.

-Dealerships know that we're inching closer to a business model that no longer needs their services. It's not happening anytime soon but it's also on the horizon. With nearly two years of having a lot of control over the vehicle market, I doubt dealerships are going to cede the control they've wrested from the customer especially since we STILL are dealing with chip-induced scarcity.

-The variety of vehicles for sale has also gone down, and if you're looking for a particular car that's not a pickup or midsize SUV (the only segments where there's true diversity and competition among automakers), a dealership is going to be VERY aware that you're looking at buying a small sedan or hatchback. You're cross-shopping used cars now more than ever (also thanks to the major improvements in fleet reliability since ~2010), and they know that the used market is so bonkers that new car prices still are largely competitive.

Now, none of these are universal maxims and I'm sure that there are plenty of deals to be had but the reality is that you're shopping a segment that's very popular right now and only stands to become more so as gas prices eventually plateau in the mid-to-high-$3/gallon range. Honestly, I'd say it's worth getting a beater Prius - the batteries are probably good enough (but make sure you check that it has a stock catalytic converter), and for the price it's hard to beat. But I'd also toss away the notion that you'll be able to find a 'deal' in a couple years relative to where things are today.

[AccidentialMustache]

Getting out into rural areas may help hit MSRP if you're looking at dealers. We got our EV a year ago, at MSRP, in a little rust-belt town of 16k people. Ford's theory on how to sell it says MSRP no down no up. Dealer gets paid a flat-whatever for selling it. The nearest big city (3 hours away) had dealers throwing 10k ADMs that "for me" they'd lower to 6k.

[zolotiyeruki]

Fuel efficient, small, reliable?  ChpBstrd nailed it on the first try. Hybrid Corolla or Prius.

Going 250-300k miles on a Toyota Corolla hasn't been difficult since, oh,...the 1980's.  My parents bought a brand new 1987, kept it maintained (and repaired when someone ran into a teenaged zolotiyeruki), and it was over 250k miles and running great when they no longer needed three vehicles and so they sold it off.  DW and I bought a '97 Corolla in '03, and drove it for 18+ years and got it to almost 250k miles before it got rear ended and totalled about 8 months ago.  It was still running fantastic at the age of 26.  I did all the maintenance myself on that car, and most of the repair.

Keep up on the maintenance, and it'll be rust or an accident that kills the car, not the cost of maintaining it.

[jrhampt]

Well, I got on the wait list for a new prius prime, and since that could be several months in the future (maybe not until 2023), I purchased a 2007 prius with 120k miles on it.  It's a bit older/more mileage than I'd like, but figure it's good for about 10 more years at least.  I can either trade it in when the new prime becomes available, keep it and decide not to buy the new one, or get the new prime and pass on the old one to my parents.  In any case, I have contingency plans.  I'd prefer the plug in hybrid (the new prius prime) since I think I would rarely have to buy gas, but I'm excited to have upgraded in fuel efficiency either way.  RIP Honda Fit - that one had great hauling capacity and was our dump run vehicle of choice for several years, but I never felt it got great gas mileage compared to my old 2001 Toyota Echo (which my parents are currently still driving).

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I currently drive a 2015 Honda Fit, don't particularly try to economize, and consistently get ~40mpg.  Not sure what you think of as 'great gas mileage', but 40+ mpg when I try, with a button to economize further if desired, seems pretty great to me!

[Lady SA]

I'll put in a plug for the Ioniq. We have one and LOVE it. We have the hybrid, but if we had been in a house we would have gotten the plug in version in a heartbeat. Super comfortable to drive, we consistently get over 50mpg, great cargo space for our toys. Zero complaints about the car and I'd get another one in a heartbeat.

[AccidentialMustache]

RIP Honda Fit - that one had great hauling capacity and was our dump run vehicle of choice for several years, but I never felt it got great gas mileage compared to my old 2001 Toyota Echo (which my parents are currently still driving).

We only average around 30 in our 2009, so yeah, considering how small it is the mileage isn't great. The flat back hatch doesn't help, and you'll notice that no small/efficient car has that anymore. They've become all swoopy for the MPGs.

[jrhampt]

RIP Honda Fit - that one had great hauling capacity and was our dump run vehicle of choice for several years, but I never felt it got great gas mileage compared to my old 2001 Toyota Echo (which my parents are currently still driving).

We only average around 30 in our 2009, so yeah, considering how small it is the mileage isn't great. The flat back hatch doesn't help, and you'll notice that no small/efficient car has that anymore. They've become all swoopy for the MPGs.

Yes, I only averaged around 35 during the summer and more like 30 in the winter.  The bike rack probably didn’t help, but it was never that great.  The Echo got about 40.

[jrhampt]

I'll put in a plug for the Ioniq. We have one and LOVE it. We have the hybrid, but if we had been in a house we would have gotten the plug in version in a heartbeat. Super comfortable to drive, we consistently get over 50mpg, great cargo space for our toys. Zero complaints about the car and I'd get another one in a heartbeat.

I’d love to have gotten an ioniq plug in, but all the ioniqs are also impossible to find, even more so than the Prius prime, and they unfortunately discontinued the plug in and the hybrid.  But it does look like a great car.

[HipGnosis]

You may want to also consider the Ford C Max Hybrid.
The Ford hybrids were co-engineered with Toyota.
I had a Fusion hybrid and now have a C Max Hybrid.  43 mpg.