The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: COlady on November 11, 2014, 12:08:18 PM
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This last weekend we attempted to put two (expecting twins) infant car seats in my 2007 Subaru Legacy. We tried the smallest seat they make, the Cybex Aton, and it was laughable - I’m 5’9” and my knees were in the dash, so definitely not going to work. I’ll be trading my husband for his truck – 4 door Toyota Tacoma. The Tacoma isn’t ideal either (one seat in the middle, one on passenger side so that the driver’s seat will go back enough to drive comfortably). The front seat passenger will have about 4 inches between the front of the seat and the dash this way, which also isn't ideal but doable. Anyway, we decided we can tough it out with the truck until they’re around 2 years old and we can turn them around to forward facing since adding a new vehicle to the twins budget is not exactly ideal.
I'm just super surprised that infant seats are so huge that they won't work in my mid-sized sedan. Am I doing something wrong?
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Are you using the infant carriers with the base or the carseats that work until they're 4 or 5? I also have twins; we used infant carriers and when we had to put them in my VW Golf (which was hilarious) we skipped the bases and used the seatbelt installation with the carseat alone. I don't think we ever put the 'regular' carseats in the Golf until they were turned around because it's a 2 door and we couldn't get to the kiddos.
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I'll take the face punch that comes when I say that we traded in an old forester for a larger SUV when our second came along. When DD transitioned from the infant seat, which only fit if I was driving because Husband's knees would hit, to the rear facing toddler seat we cried uncle. Some of the newest, safest, expensive seats my mommy friends have been showing off are even more insanely big than our old little Gracos. They just keep getting bigger!!!
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I suggested trading in the Tacoma for a SUV and my husband looked at me like I was crazy. Not his beloved truck! He can't sell his beloved truck! I understand that he saved and saved for a number of years to get his beloved truck but if I had it my way we'd trade it for a Highlander.
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Are you using the infant carriers with the base or the carseats that work until they're 4 or 5? I also have twins; we used infant carriers and when we had to put them in my VW Golf (which was hilarious) we skipped the bases and used the seatbelt installation with the carseat alone. I don't think we ever put the 'regular' carseats in the Golf until they were turned around because it's a 2 door and we couldn't get to the kiddos.
We are planning on using the bases in the truck because it's just so much easier to get them in and out.
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How about rethinking the car seat instead of the car?
How about a seat that:
• accommodates infants up to booster seat size, i.e. birth to approximately age 4, back & forward facing
• is certified for airline seats, meaning it is narrow enough to safely fit in all modes of transportation
• installs in any vehicle seat by using that vehicle's belt over it, meaning it's fast & very secure
• provides 5-point belting in the seat
• includes an integrated stroller, eliminating the need to carry & mess with a separate piece of equipment.
Such a seat exists, & we used it for our DS 21 years ago. It's solid as a rock & is only available online. I have no connection with this seat or company, but would not have any other. It's called the Sit & Stroll, & is currently available here: http://www.lillygold.com/products/sit-n-stroll.html. It costs more than "just" a car seat, but since it includes a stroller, I think the price is fair for what it saved us in time, energy, & convenience. When we travelled with it, we were constantly asked what it was & how to get one. It is narrow enough to roll down the first class aisle, & easy enough to carry to coach & plop into the seat. I'm a big believer in all children having an airline seat: it protects them, they sleep through the flight because they're comfortable in the Sit & Stroll, & there's no need to check the seat.
The stroller wheels are contained under the seat & the handle is stowed at the top. The wheels pop out like landing gear; you lift the seat with both hands, squeeze a bar in the back, & slide down. This is easily done with the baby in the seat, but we practiced first with a weight. There is no way that a young sibling can operate that lever to retract the wheels, another safety feature. The stroller wheels have foot brakes. The handle pulls out & retracts like the ones on wheeled luggage. The seat cover is easily removable & washable.
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I have my heart so set on the Baby Jogger City Select Double. All the twin moms in my twins group love it and say it's the only stroller they'd recommend for twins. The carseats clip directly into the stroller.
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I have my heart so set on the Baby Jogger City Select Double. All the twin moms in my twins group love it and say it's the only stroller they'd recommend for twins. The carseats clip directly into the stroller.
You should be able to clip most brands of infant car seats into the stroller. The stroller manufacturer makes adapters for this. Google the name of your car and car seat and you'll find recommendations for car seats that work with your car and give the most legroom.
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Only you can decide how stroller centric your environment will be, & multiples complicate this.
For us, safe & easy transport in & out of vehicles was the primary issue. We used a real jog stroller for neighborhood walks & runs. We seldom took DS shopping -- sounds great, but babies rarely cooperate.
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We put my first daughter in the middle seat of our car rear facing (safest place) in a Britax marathon. We didn't use an infant carrier for her. Our newest we were gifted an infant carrier and again she rear faces in the middle seat of our car. She is about 10 weeks old and I am so SO ready to stop with that dang car seat. They are heavy and awkward and I never minded not having one with my first.
If I am bringing the baby in from the car I just take her out of the seat and leave it In there.
I have a city select double. Those adapters are so expensive! We didn't get it for that reason, but the seats fully recline to flat so she does perfect in the original seat. We just have a little insert that makes it cushier. Sometimes I just throw a blanket in.
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If I was having twins I would throw money at the problem. Hell yes I would want two clip in infant seats and a stroller that the seats clipped into.
A high-up truck with baby seats sounds awful to me. Our infant seat (35 lb graco) fit fine in the civic. I'm surprised they're that much bigger in the last 7 years.
If it was me the truck would be getting traded, but if that's off the table I am surprised he is fine with it being the primary babymobile. Let me tell you it's pretty awesome when they projectile vomit in the car.
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For one baby, I would say skip the infant carrier and go for the convertible seat. We just bought a Diono Radian RXT for our big 2 year old (to replace a Britax Marathon which his baby bro will move into once we ditch the carrier) and we LOVE the Diono. However, with two, the convenience of having both kids contained and being able to easily snap the seat in and out of the base probably supersedes the annoyance of dealing with the carrier seats.
I say probably because it really depends on how much car transport you're planning to do. Do you need to take them on errands a lot? (Some people do that but my husband and I try to plan errands for evenings after bedtime if at all possible, especially grocery trips - so much easier.) Are there activities you can walk to, since you're prioritizing the stroller? Don't assume that you need to strap your kids into the car every single day and take them to the bank, grocery store, music class, doctor appointments, etc. Since you are here, you are already probably thinking of ways you can minimize your car travel. And as I recall, you were considering leaving work to stay at home for some period of time, so daily daycare trips might not be necessary? The point is that if you aren't doing a ton of car trips, it might be more worthwhile to look at getting 2 convertible seats and having a stroller that folds easily and just moving them in and out of the stroller when you need to have them out in the car. A couple other considerations - I don't know how much more space the rear facing convertibles take up so it might not help all that much. And I don't know what your climate is, if you're in Colorado or another place with cold winters, one plus to the carrier seats is that it allows you to get the infant all snuggled in before rushing them through cold air into the car. I am just posting all this to put another option out there - you don't NEED an infant carrier seat although there can be benefits to having them.
As for the stroller, I don't have twins but we have the Baby Jogger City Select with 2 seats and love it. With both seats in, it can get a little cumbersome to go over curbs, but it is narrow and fits through any doorway and doesn't consume the entire sidewalk. Which honestly isn't that big of a deal here in Denver but after living in NYC and getting pushed aside by wide strollers it was a priority for me :) Also, we don't have the car seat adapter and put our boys in the seat laid flat from a pretty early age, I would say a couple of weeks maybe, with lots of support around them. Something to think about. Again, it depends on what you are using it for.
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I'm no expert on the subject - just the two kids - but did do some research when buying carseats and strollers. What I remember reading is that young babies shouldn't spend that much time in car seats and should be lying flat most of the time. Various reasons were given, some to do with bones in the back, others to do with trouble breathing in a car seat position. So using a convertible car seat/stroller to drive to a store, go shopping and drive home would not be recommended (one link that talks about this http://www.webmd.boots.com/children/baby/guide/prams-and-pushchairs?page=2).
I recommend getting a decent car seat (that fits in your car, of course) and a lie down stroller/buggy (that often can be converted to a sit up stoller/buggy as they get older. Not as convenient as the convertible car seat/stroller, but I never found it a big hassle.
Just because lots of companies make these convertible car seat/strollers doesn't mean they are healthy. On the other hand, maybe the information I read was overly cautious. Read up and make your own choice.
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I too, would avoid over estimating how much time you will spend driving or using a stroller. With twins, I wouldn't expect you will be out grocery shopping anytime soon. When they are less than 6-9 months old, you won't be taking them to the park yet.
Babies need a lot of time out of the car seat. Flat heads and bucket babies, and all.
If it was me, I would make do with the cars you have AMD cadseats that fit in them, buckets or convertible. Hold off on the stroller until you know how much you will use it. Even then, don't buy the car seat attachment at all. They are like $50+ and you probably don't need it. When our first was small enough to use it (ie, not sitting up) we carried her or stayed home.
After the newness of twins wears off, my guess is that you will be a lot less excited to spend $$$. You might be surprised to find that a much cheaper and much more portable stroller will work just as well, especially if you waif until they are sitting up.
Same goes for high chairs- don't buy the fancy wood one that converts to a chair. I did. They are stupid to clean and no toddler anywhere wants to sit in a baby chair. They want a regular normal chair like a big kid.
Anyhow, congrats, good luck, and don't be tricked into thinking you need expensive shit for your babies. I have spent literally zero dollars on my second, who is two months old. Reusing clothes and cloth diapers. Reusing the packnplay as her crib, reusing car seat. Its a pretty good ROI. ;)
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I'm surprised your car seats did not fit in the Subaru. We used a Graco infant car seat/carrier (don't remember the model) and it fit in our Honda Accord behind the driver seat with no problem. I'm 6', but did not have to move the seat forward at all to accommodate the car seat.
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If it was me the truck would be getting traded, but if that's off the table I am surprised he is fine with it being the primary babymobile. Let me tell you it's pretty awesome when they projectile vomit in the car.
So true.
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My son is in the 99% size bracket. Keeping him in a rear facing child seat beyond age 1 was impossible. His legs were way too long. It's hilarious to me that swapping the carseat around violates some states laws. They didn't have any rear facing car seats not too long ago, and we all turned out fine.
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I understand why rear facing is technically safer, but boy am I glad that wasn't a thing when I was little. We had a rockin' chevy station wagon with those flip up rear seats in the trunk and I HATED having to ride back there because they always made me car sick. Being rearfacing until 6 yrs old ( which is the goal in some countries) would have sucked.
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My son is in the 99% size bracket. Keeping him in a rear facing child seat beyond age 1 was impossible. His legs were way too long. It's hilarious to me that swapping the carseat around violates some states laws. They didn't have any rear facing car seats not too long ago, and we all turned out fine.
So true! Since those that died are no longer part of the collective "we" they can't really defend the alternate position.
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Speaking up to keep a clear conscience: It is much safer for babies and kids to be rear facing. Tall kids and older kids (e.g., my 3.5 year old) can fold their legs and will be fine.
Do a simple Google search about death rates and rear facing versus forward facing. Buy an extra tall convertible.
Yes, rear facing is a pain for front passenger riders (we traded in our Yaris for an older Prius once pregnant with the second kid), but it is safest for the little ones.
I know there are lots of factors that go into people's baby-related decisions, but this is one of the few areas where the evidence is clear.
(My two cents, based on lots of research while pregnant)
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No kids here, but I have plenty of friends who drive golf-sized cars with two rear facing child-seats in the back. These seats are most definitely available in Europe (and I do mean isofix ones with the bases, not just strapped in). Maxi-cosi seems to be a popular brand, if that is any help.
I know my friend in Australia had UK equipment shipped to her there because she couldn't find what she wanted. EU safety standards are very high, but you should check that it complies where you are, if consider this route, I suppose.
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The general safety rule for rear facing is broken legs are better than broken spines.
But yah, they fold their legs.
I haaaaaate rear facing. It sucks. I'm so glad those days are over for my kids. But saying "we didn't extended rear face and we turned out fine" is just stupid. Some of us didn't ride in carseats at all, and that certainly isn't safe in a crash. 80% of adults used to smoke and now we know better. We know extended rear facing is safer, so now we do it.
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For one baby, I would say skip the infant carrier and go for the convertible seat. We just bought a Diono Radian RXT for our big 2 year old (to replace a Britax Marathon which his baby bro will move into once we ditch the carrier) and we LOVE the Diono. However, with two, the convenience of having both kids contained and being able to easily snap the seat in and out of the base probably supersedes the annoyance of dealing with the carrier seats.
I bought the Diono Rainier, as it seemed to be one of the best, safest with the longest possible rear-facing. But when installed in my (not tiny) subaru outback -09 the passenger seat had to be pushed all the way forward and angled straight up. Leaving no legroom for my wife or any passengers we'd want with us. Simply not going to work. So we returned it and are now looking to try a different seat. I want rear-facing past the crazy early 2 years americans are fine with, but that seems to lead to the largest seats. I thought the Outback was a big car!
I plan to try out the Chicco Nextfit. Supposedly smaller footprint and decent rear facing capabilities.
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We got a Combi Coccoro when our infant outgrew the graco infant seat with base. It has a very small footprint and we used it in a Civic no problem.
Then the baby outgrew that seat and we got a Radian (also rear facing) and an SUV with 3 latch connectors in the back, since we were expecting #3.
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I'm not too familiar with the amount of the room in the back of legacy but I have a KIA RIO 5 and our peg perego car seat barely fit too. The passenger seat had to be pushed forward. It is much easier when you can turn them around. I did at 19 months (even though he reached the weight and height guidelines at 15 months) as my son hated car rides but the minute we turned him around he loved them.
So no, I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Rear facing car seats take up a tonne of room.