Author Topic: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue  (Read 6010 times)

wannabfrugal

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Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« on: September 17, 2013, 07:05:27 AM »
I have a '99 Camry V6 3000 Four Cam 24 Manual Transmission

I am having issues with not being able to shift out of first gear if my RPMs are over approximately 2k.  It feels like it is stuck and grinding if I try to shift above 2k RPMS.  If I let the RPM's drop back below 2k it will shift or if I shift out of first before my RPM's get above 2k, it will shift clean. 

I have no problem shifting in and out of any other gear at any RPM. 

For now it is a liveable problem, but I'm looking for help on diagnosing my problem and if it's an indicator of a bigger problem coming.

I readily admit I'm a car novice and am hoping someone has some insights (and hopefully it's something I can try to repair myself! :) )

Thanks in advance!

Left

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 07:22:58 AM »
don't qoute me on this, but it might be the reverse gear. I can't place why my instinct is saying that considering I don't drive a manual... but if all other gears work, and it is a problem getting out of first gear only, there's a reverse gear there as well

schimt

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 08:07:36 AM »
Sounds like an issue with the syncro on your second gear. Read the link below to get a better idea, but basically when you shift gears, the ratio between the input shaft (from the engine) and the output (to the wheels) changes, simular to a bicycle, the speed of the pedals change when shifting gears but not the speed of the wheels and rear gearset. The speed of the output shaft is steady because it is basically attached to the wheels and the speed of the car is not going to change while switching gears, soooo the input shaft speed needs to change to match the new gear ratio that you are switching too, when you step on the clutch, the input shaft is disconnected from the engine, but is still spinning because it is still engaged with the previous gear (1st in your case). When you put it in neutral the input and output shaft are separated, and the input shaft is free to spin at any speed, but it is still not spinning at the correct speed. Once you get it in the next gear, the input shaft speed is slower and hence the reason you hear a different tone from the engine and see a different RPM on the tachometer after releasing the clutch.

Modern transmission have what are called synchronizers which assist in making a smoother transition to the new required input shaft speed. When a syncro starts to go, you will have trouble with that one gear. You can try mastering double clutching which is a technique used for smooth shifting for older transmissions (pre-syncros), which is explained in the first link below. Takes some getting used to, but once you get it, it is like riding a bike (little mustachian pun).

For anyone else reading this, if you are having trouble shifting into all gears, its most likely an issue with the clutch system not fully disengaging, if hydraulic then a bad master or slave cylinder, or a stretched or misadjusted cable on a cable system, or a bend clutch fork (unlikely)

Good luck, and unfortunately sycnro's aren't a DIY replacement job, but getting a junkyard trans is managable with a friend with some mechanical no how and some thank you beers of course.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/manual-transmission-synchronizers.htm
http://www.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 08:21:18 AM by schimt »

wannabfrugal

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 08:45:03 AM »
Sounds like an issue with the syncro on your second gear. Read the link below to get a better idea, but basically when you shift gears, the ratio between the input shaft (from the engine) and the output (to the wheels) changes, simular to a bicycle, the speed of the pedals change when shifting gears but not the speed of the wheels and rear gearset. The speed of the output shaft is steady because it is basically attached to the wheels and the speed of the car is not going to change while switching gears, soooo the input shaft speed needs to change to match the new gear ratio that you are switching too, when you step on the clutch, the input shaft is disconnected from the engine, but is still spinning because it is still engaged with the previous gear (1st in your case). When you put it in neutral the input and output shaft are separated, and the input shaft is free to spin at any speed, but it is still not spinning at the correct speed. Once you get it in the next gear, the input shaft speed is slower and hence the reason you hear a different tone from the engine and see a different RPM on the tachometer after releasing the clutch.

Modern transmission have what are called synchronizers which assist in making a smoother transition to the new required input shaft speed. When a syncro starts to go, you will have trouble with that one gear. You can try mastering double clutching which is a technique used for smooth shifting for older transmissions (pre-syncros), which is explained in the first link below. Takes some getting used to, but once you get it, it is like riding a bike (little mustachian pun).

For anyone else reading this, if you are having trouble shifting into all gears, its most likely an issue with the clutch system not fully disengaging, if hydraulic then a bad master or slave cylinder, or a stretched or misadjusted cable on a cable system, or a bend clutch fork (unlikely)

Good luck, and unfortunately sycnro's aren't a DIY replacement job, but getting a junkyard trans is managable with a friend with some mechanical no how and some thank you beers of course.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/manual-transmission-synchronizers.htm
http://www.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

Thank you for the quick responses. 

So long as this isn't indicative of a deteriorating condition, I think it's time to learn ride my double clutching bike (lol) or just live with shifting quickly out of first. 




Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 09:04:40 AM »
I would look for an independent mechanic in your area. I'm lucky enough to know a Honda guru and is my go-to guy for these things. I bought my Odyssey because I knew he could fit any problem it would have.

Search a little and you should come up with something..

wannabfrugal

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 05:15:12 AM »
I would look for an independent mechanic in your area. I'm lucky enough to know a Honda guru and is my go-to guy for these things. I bought my Odyssey because I knew he could fit any problem it would have.

Search a little and you should come up with something..

thanks for the recommendation.  I found a local shop down the road that charges a little more than everyone else, but is reputed to have outstanding quality.

Does anyone have a ballpark estimate for what this repair work should cost?

Half-Borg

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 05:32:47 AM »
Modern transmission have what are called synchronizers which assist in making a smoother transition to the new required input shaft speed. When a syncro starts to go, you will have trouble with that one gear. You can try mastering double clutching which is a technique used for smooth shifting for older transmissions (pre-syncros), which is explained in the first link below. Takes some getting used to, but once you get it, it is like riding a bike (little mustachian pun).
I'm by no means qualified, but wouldn't that be a problem shifting INTO second gear? The OPs problem is shifting OUT of first gear.

schimt

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 02:12:05 PM »
I'm by no means qualified, but wouldn't that be a problem shifting INTO second gear? The OPs problem is shifting OUT of first gear.
Your absolutely right, I miss read that and if the OP is truly having an issue with shifting out of one specific gear, then I am at a loss for what the issue could be. Generally if you are having trouble getting out of a gear and getting into gears you have a problem with the clutch not fully disengaging. But to have a problem just shifting out of one gear, that you have no problem shifting into doesn't seem likely. If you can shift into first then the fork and linkage is adjusted correctly and not bent...

My gut feeling is that the OP meant the entire process of shifting out of first and into second.

Exflyboy

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 03:06:59 PM »
Yes it could be the clutch is not fully disengaging.

I don't know what the Camry uses by way of an adjustment.. Is there significatn slack in the clutch.. like does it engage close to the floor?

If so it could be a simple ajustment..

Do a Google search and read up on the problem.. Lots of people will have run into this.

Frank

schimt

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2013, 12:58:02 PM »
Yes it could be the clutch is not fully disengaging.

I don't know what the Camry uses by way of an adjustment.. Is there significatn slack in the clutch.. like does it engage close to the floor?

If so it could be a simple ajustment..

Do a Google search and read up on the problem.. Lots of people will have run into this.

Frank
Yea but the op is describing issues with just one gear, a clutch not disengaging would cause issues with all gears, the op just needs to reply with a better explanation of the symptom for us

Exflyboy

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2013, 05:52:29 PM »
But it maybe more pronounced when going from first to second.

Either that or its a worn synchro between first and second.

Frank

wannabfrugal

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2014, 11:29:28 AM »
But it maybe more pronounced when going from first to second.

Either that or its a worn synchro between first and second.

Frank

It only happens from first to second, I don't feel any issues with other gears.

I can add that it happens more regularly when I'm at a stop and having to go up a hill.  Ie a stop sign on a hill.

And the clutch engages i'd estimate 1/3 to 1/2 of the way down.

thurston howell iv

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2014, 11:38:35 AM »
1. This is a 1999 car. I am presuming that it has over 100k? Probably over 150K?  (It's probably time for a clutch anyway- OEM part is cheap via ebay or rockauto)  SEE: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?ck[ID]=0&ck[idlist]=0&ck[viewcurrency]=USD&ck[PHP_SESSION_ID]=mgh3l3n0k469e0dm6u30kltjg3


2. I would have the trans pulled. New clutch installed. Flush out old slave cylinder fluid with some fresh stuff.

3. Have Transmission case opened and inspected. (Not hard to do- this will show if you have a bad synchro or not) -- If you need one, you can have that done, depending on cost, or just buy a used low mile unit and be done with it.

prodarwin

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2014, 11:45:45 AM »
Before doing anything else, I would check 3 things:

1)  Engine/transmission mounts.  The symptoms you describe match those of many cars with a worn transmission mount.  The trans will move enough that it pulls on the shift cable making it difficult to move out of one gear/into another

2)  Shift cables

3)  Clutch disengagement


HumanAfterAll

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2014, 01:57:20 PM »
+1 for clutch dragging.  I recently fixed a car with symptoms of the clutch not fully disengaging - a piece of the lining had come off and was sitting on top of the lining in a different location. 

How to test for this?  Put the car in neutral, push the clutch all the way in, and try to move the car into gear.  If the clutch is dragging, it will be hard to move the lever and the engine speed will slow down. 

You said this only happens coming out of first gear above 2000RPM, so you could try this test at 2000RPM. 

jawisco

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2014, 06:31:54 PM »
If you have a mechanic you can trust, bring it in since it could be something simple like the transmission mount.  Or have him drive it and give you his opinion.

If you don't have a mechanic you can trust, I would just live with it.  I certainly wouldn't trade out the clutch (I have driven old manual transmission cars for 20 years and I have never needed to put a new clutch in - if you drive correctly, I don't think they wear out) or bother getting into the transmission.

My guess it is something smallish - just need to find it.

Exflyboy

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Re: Car maintenance question - '99 Camry manual transmission issue
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2014, 06:42:22 PM »
Its something smallish for sure.. I still suspect the clutch (possibly made worse with sagging engine mounts).

If it is a 1st to 2nd gear problem it will be a worn synchro between first and second.. its small but when I rebuilt my Neon manual transmission I had to buy the special tool to reassemble and used my 20Ton shop press. Its not too hard but its advanced wrenching for sure.

Frank