Author Topic: Car Maintenance  (Read 4645 times)

show me the money

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Car Maintenance
« on: July 28, 2014, 12:06:13 PM »
Hello Mustachians,

    Any car people out there that can answer a question?

 Just had my inspection done, and my mechanic is recommending a transmission flush and fill. my car is a 2005 Camry with 79,400 miles on it, i am the only owner (bought pre-mustachian days, but was a demo at least) i have read that flushes can damage the transmissions, i have also read that the dip stick says not to change the transmission fluid. now i do trust my mechanic, but i have always read that flushes are bad. this is a cost of $500 to get done, the trans fluid alone is $200. the mechanic says that my transmission is fine, not slipping but that the fluid is dark and should be changed.

can anyone weigh in?

okashira

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 12:10:28 PM »
NO, do not flush it. Just drain and fill the fluid at 100k.

It's super easy to do it yourself.

frugalnacho

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 12:31:49 PM »
Read your owners manual and follow it.

show me the money

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 12:33:22 PM »
NO, do not flush it. Just drain and fill the fluid at 100k.

It's super easy to do it yourself.

Can you elaborate as to why? i am being told that the flush does not harm the transmission, and that with a drain and fill, you are not getting all the old fluid out, only about half, so you are mixing the new fluid with the old " burnt" stuff.

forward

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2014, 12:49:50 PM »
NO, do not flush it. Just drain and fill the fluid at 100k.

It's super easy to do it yourself.

Can you elaborate as to why? i am being told that the flush does not harm the transmission, and that with a drain and fill, you are not getting all the old fluid out, only about half, so you are mixing the new fluid with the old " burnt" stuff.


I cannot speak for all cars but many manufacturers, honda being one, and toyota on at least some models, say not to flush.  It cause issues with solenoids and sensors.  They do recommend drain and fill. 

On my particular car the recommendation is to drain, add back to full, drive 5 miles - drain, add back to full, drive 5 miles, drain, add back to full.  (3x drain and fill).  Every 60k miles. This came out as a maintenance update after some people had transmission problems, so its not in the manual.

I know on some toyota's, the manufacturer planned on making the transmissions virtually maintenance free but after a while people realized that a simple drain and fill was a better approach. 

I would do some research on your particular car and see what is recommended.  I'm doubtful that a $500 flush is.  A simple drain and fill may be a good idea though. 

ketchup

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2014, 01:19:40 PM »
On my particular car the recommendation is to drain, add back to full, drive 5 miles - drain, add back to full, drive 5 miles, drain, add back to full.  (3x drain and fill).  Every 60k miles. This came out as a maintenance update after some people had transmission problems, so its not in the manual.
This.  Do not do the flush.  Drain and refill is the way to go.  Many owner's manuals recommend specifically against a flush.

okashira

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2014, 01:50:42 PM »
NO, do not flush it. Just drain and fill the fluid at 100k.

It's super easy to do it yourself.

Can you elaborate as to why? i am being told that the flush does not harm the transmission, and that with a drain and fill, you are not getting all the old fluid out, only about half, so you are mixing the new fluid with the old " burnt" stuff.

Please stop listening to a guy that wants to charge you $500 for a $20 job.

okashira

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2014, 01:52:07 PM »
NO, do not flush it. Just drain and fill the fluid at 100k.

It's super easy to do it yourself.

Can you elaborate as to why? i am being told that the flush does not harm the transmission, and that with a drain and fill, you are not getting all the old fluid out, only about half, so you are mixing the new fluid with the old " burnt" stuff.


I cannot speak for all cars but many manufacturers, honda being one, and toyota on at least some models, say not to flush.  It cause issues with solenoids and sensors.  They do recommend drain and fill. 

On my particular car the recommendation is to drain, add back to full, drive 5 miles - drain, add back to full, drive 5 miles, drain, add back to full.  (3x drain and fill).  Every 60k miles. This came out as a maintenance update after some people had transmission problems, so its not in the manual.

I know on some toyota's, the manufacturer planned on making the transmissions virtually maintenance free but after a while people realized that a simple drain and fill was a better approach. 

I would do some research on your particular car and see what is recommended.  I'm doubtful that a $500 flush is.  A simple drain and fill may be a good idea though.

Damn, 3 times? That is the first I have seen the practice recommended. I considered doing it myself, but I would have done it once.

nordlead

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2014, 02:04:26 PM »
Damn, 3 times? That is the first I have seen the practice recommended. I considered doing it myself, but I would have done it once.

When you drain the automatic transmission, ~50% of the fluid gets trapped in the torque converter and other spots. So, the first drain/fill will leave you with ~50% old fluid.

2nd drain/fill leaves you with ~25% old fluid
3rd drain/fill leaves you with ~12.5% old fluid
and so on...

If you do it every oil change (as some people recommend), then one flush is probably sufficient since you'll be doing ~2 flushes/year.

If you trust yourself and have a friend to help, I've seen some people disconnect the line going to the radiator and pumping into a bucket while simultaneously adding new fluid via the dipstick. You'll have less fluid waste, but it is too risky for my taste.

The real problem with a flush, is that 1) it is expensive, 2) if they are forcing the fluid through there is the chance they break something.

show me the money

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2014, 02:17:04 PM »
NO, do not flush it. Just drain and fill the fluid at 100k.

It's super easy to do it yourself.

Can you elaborate as to why? i am being told that the flush does not harm the transmission, and that with a drain and fill, you are not getting all the old fluid out, only about half, so you are mixing the new fluid with the old " burnt" stuff.

Please stop listening to a guy that wants to charge you $500 for a $20 job.

Thanks Okashira, the fluid alone has to be more than $20 though. he did give me all the costs, i just have them written down at home, it was $212 for just the fluid, said it would take two cases, use the first to flush out all the crap, and the second to fill.

 the mechanic has in the past not charged us for parts he never used, he would give us a price, and when we went to pick it up it would be lower, when asked why, the answer was that he ended up not needing a part.

 i have found that most mechanics that i have dealt with in the past would not have done that, so that is why i mostly trust him. but at the same time i want this car to last another 10 years and another 80,000 miles so i am very weary on which route to go. if i do a drain/fill, would i need to drop the pan and replace the filter?

my DW car a 2005 corolla has 140,000ish miles on it, and i don't think that the transmission has ever been drained or flushed, runs fine, but her inspection is coming up and now i'm afraid that the same thing will come up, she trusts the guy much more than i do.

okashira

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2014, 03:25:38 PM »
NO, do not flush it. Just drain and fill the fluid at 100k.

It's super easy to do it yourself.

Can you elaborate as to why? i am being told that the flush does not harm the transmission, and that with a drain and fill, you are not getting all the old fluid out, only about half, so you are mixing the new fluid with the old " burnt" stuff.

Please stop listening to a guy that wants to charge you $500 for a $20 job.

Thanks Okashira, the fluid alone has to be more than $20 though. he did give me all the costs, i just have them written down at home, it was $212 for just the fluid, said it would take two cases, use the first to flush out all the crap, and the second to fill.

 the mechanic has in the past not charged us for parts he never used, he would give us a price, and when we went to pick it up it would be lower, when asked why, the answer was that he ended up not needing a part.

 i have found that most mechanics that i have dealt with in the past would not have done that, so that is why i mostly trust him. but at the same time i want this car to last another 10 years and another 80,000 miles so i am very weary on which route to go. if i do a drain/fill, would i need to drop the pan and replace the filter?

my DW car a 2005 corolla has 140,000ish miles on it, and i don't think that the transmission has ever been drained or flushed, runs fine, but her inspection is coming up and now i'm afraid that the same thing will come up, she trusts the guy much more than i do.

Just drain and fill. There is probably a drain plug.
On hondas, the filter is not inside, it's on one of the rubber return lines and they say its not a replaceable part (although I was able to replace it just fine.)
What does your owners manual say?
If you want to baby it, just drain / fill three times like recommended here.

Milspecstache

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2014, 06:03:32 PM »
I'm not comfortable with the idea of sealed transmissions that never need the fluid changed.  To me it sounds like they want you to 'change out' the entire car at 100k miles and get a new one...

I do the drain and refill about every 20k miles.  Yes it doesn't completely change it out but doing that ensures the fluid stays relatively clear and red and I'm still getting any metal that is sitting in the bottom of the pan.

I have also heard horror stories of people that waited until the tranny started making noises, say around 150k miles or so, and then changed out the fluid.  Something about the new fluid loosening up stuff that then made the tranny fail far faster.  Another reason to start early with doing fluid replacements.

AH013

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2014, 06:47:54 PM »
NO, do not flush it. Just drain and fill the fluid at 100k.

It's super easy to do it yourself.

Can you elaborate as to why? i am being told that the flush does not harm the transmission, and that with a drain and fill, you are not getting all the old fluid out, only about half, so you are mixing the new fluid with the old " burnt" stuff.

Please stop listening to a guy that wants to charge you $500 for a $20 job.

Thanks Okashira, the fluid alone has to be more than $20 though. he did give me all the costs, i just have them written down at home, it was $212 for just the fluid, said it would take two cases, use the first to flush out all the crap, and the second to fill.

 the mechanic has in the past not charged us for parts he never used, he would give us a price, and when we went to pick it up it would be lower, when asked why, the answer was that he ended up not needing a part.

 i have found that most mechanics that i have dealt with in the past would not have done that, so that is why i mostly trust him. but at the same time i want this car to last another 10 years and another 80,000 miles so i am very weary on which route to go. if i do a drain/fill, would i need to drop the pan and replace the filter?

my DW car a 2005 corolla has 140,000ish miles on it, and i don't think that the transmission has ever been drained or flushed, runs fine, but her inspection is coming up and now i'm afraid that the same thing will come up, she trusts the guy much more than i do.

Hahaha!  I got 2 jugs of fluid for my upcoming flush. Cost? $12. $212, must be laced with gold!  Hahahaha!  Check autozone or walmart if you don't believe me in ATF prices.

m8547

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2014, 08:00:21 PM »
Hahaha!  I got 2 jugs of fluid for my upcoming flush. Cost? $12. $212, must be laced with gold!  Hahahaha!  Check autozone or walmart if you don't believe me in ATF prices.

Maybe it's made of unicorn blood? At least it's cheaper than printer ink!

I paid about $7/quart for mine, and it takes 2.5 quarts. This is one where using the OEM fluid is probably a good idea.

show me the money

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2014, 06:32:11 AM »
Hahaha!  I got 2 jugs of fluid for my upcoming flush. Cost? $12. $212, must be laced with gold!  Hahahaha!  Check autozone or walmart if you don't believe me in ATF prices.

Maybe it's made of unicorn blood? At least it's cheaper than printer ink!

I paid about $7/quart for mine, and it takes 2.5 quarts. This is one where using the OEM fluid is probably a good idea.

i thought the price was ridiculous too, he claims that the OEM is about $12 per qt, and the aftermarket is $9 something. the high price is because with a flush apparently you use something like 20+ qts. I definitely do not want to pay for this, but like I said before, I don't want my transmission going because I did nothing, or a drain and fill. I just do not know that much about cars, have been researching, but there is not definitive answer on whether it hurts the car, or is even necessary. 

nordlead

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2014, 08:07:01 AM »
Hahaha!  I got 2 jugs of fluid for my upcoming flush. Cost? $12. $212, must be laced with gold!  Hahahaha!  Check autozone or walmart if you don't believe me in ATF prices.

Be careful here. Some cars call for specific AT fluid. Not all AT fluid is cheap. The worst thing you could do is drop in cheap AT fluid only to destroy your AT.

But yes, $212 for fluid sounds expensive.

greaper007

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2014, 05:46:32 PM »
That's probably the right price for fluid, labor and the use of the machine.   

If it was me, I'd just change the fluid with the oil at about 5,000 for the next few changes.    In fact, I bought a 2000 Sienna last year (same platform as the Camry) with 140,000 and that's exactly what I'm doing now.    Jugs of full synthetic dot3 are like $20 at Wal-Mart and the drain and fill on this car is super easy.   

If you get underneath the car and look towards the driver side area adjacent to the oil pan you'll see a drain bolt and another bolt (allen wrench of a strange size required) behind it on the differential.    Just undo these, let the fluid out, and refill it through the dipstick.    You can buy a funnel with a narrow mouth to do this.

Add a jug of Mobil 1 for the oil change and a filter and you can do a full synthetic change of both systems for about $45 and maybe 30mins-1 hour of your time.

show me the money

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Re: Car Maintenance
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2014, 02:35:59 PM »
That's probably the right price for fluid, labor and the use of the machine.   

If it was me, I'd just change the fluid with the oil at about 5,000 for the next few changes.    In fact, I bought a 2000 Sienna last year (same platform as the Camry) with 140,000 and that's exactly what I'm doing now.    Jugs of full synthetic dot3 are like $20 at Wal-Mart and the drain and fill on this car is super easy.   

If you get underneath the car and look towards the driver side area adjacent to the oil pan you'll see a drain bolt and another bolt (allen wrench of a strange size required) behind it on the differential.    Just undo these, let the fluid out, and refill it through the dipstick.    You can buy a funnel with a narrow mouth to do this.

Add a jug of Mobil 1 for the oil change and a filter and you can do a full synthetic change of both systems for about $45 and maybe 30mins-1 hour of your time.

Thanks man,

i checked with a friend that works with Toyota, and basically told me the same as all of you here, that the flush is not needed, and is a waste of money, just a drain fill at 100k. thank you all. and thanks Okashira.

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