Author Topic: Car for gun - legal trade?  (Read 24372 times)

MidWestLove

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2014, 04:16:23 PM »
"I don't really get the home defense aspect for most people.    You're more likely to accidentally shoot a family member than an actual intruder."

Sorry, this lie have been repeated over an over but it does not make it any more true.

and as a first generation immigrant, this is one of the areas where I feel that 'locals' really do not get how fortunate they are. first, ability to feel that they life is not worthless (and therefore worth defending and tools and means to do so), second living in somewhat of a free state.
"necessary for existence of free state" means exactly that - all of the laws in the world and fancy papers mean nothing if there is counter balance to the power of the state, I lived in countries that had great things written in various constitutions but that was worthless as there was no way anyone could have fought back. 

MidWestLove

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2014, 04:17:56 PM »
and to OP , as many people said - it really depends on the state  you live in and will conduct a transaction in. worst case write up a bill of sale and get person info down (as you should when buying any other property)

marty998

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2014, 04:28:43 PM »
"I don't really get the home defense aspect for most people.    You're more likely to accidentally shoot a family member than an actual intruder."

Sorry, this lie have been repeated over an over but it does not make it any more true.

Oscar Pistorius ring a bell to anyone?

ok thats my silly contribution. The answer to the actual question has already been given - it's whether the OP believes they are getting a fair trade, and whether it is legal.

The seller of the gun may have innocent or guilty intentions, we don't know. But that needs to be found out first. After that it's simply a question of value, regardless of whether its a car, gun, widget or other asset.

tariskat

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2014, 09:05:15 PM »
Hi all,

Here's an odd question.  I'm selling my car on Craigslist; it's KBB value is like 1200$.  A guy is offering to trade a .50 cal BMG with ammo and says that's worth 2800 if I sold that.  He 'needs a car fast.'

Can this be legal?  Would my best recourse be to bring it to a gun shop and ask them to evaluate it?

Skipping all the parts that have already been covered in this thread...

A .50 BMG is not a Mustachian firearm.  At current ammo costs, well, you don't even want to know how much each shot costs...  :-)

Dude, that's not something I would keep.  I'd probably bring it to a range and bruise my shoulder shooting it a few times, sure, but then off to a pawn shop, lol.

Anyway, to everyone who replied sensibly, thanks for the input - while it could potentially be a fair trade, I chose to not pursue the trade and go with, as someone said early on, just cash for car.

T-Rex

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2014, 12:01:00 AM »
I don't really get the home defense aspect for most people.    You're more likely to accidentally shoot a family member than an actual intruder.    Beyond that, what's the actual statistical likelihood of a violent break in?   I can't seem to find numbers online but I seem to recall the likelihood being somewhere in between being struck by lightning or winning the lottery category.

Here's the way I see it.   You may experience a violent encounter at some point in your life where having a weapon is useful.     More than likely though, you won't.    In the meantime every moment you have that weapon on your person or in your property it's throwing out a statistical chance of hurting you, a family member or another innocent person in an accident.    That's just the way it goes.   

Police officers and military members are considerably better trained than your average gun owner.    And they also have higher rates of gun use associated with suicides and accidents than society as a whole.    That's for a group that's closely watched and trained.    You don't know what your life will entail in the future.    Your wife may get mad at you and make a bukkake film, do you want a gun around when that happens?    Your kids will figure out all your passwords and hiding spots, I did.    What happens when they flip out over bullying, a breakup or their sexual identity?     

Statistically though, here's the one I'd be worried about.    What if something horrible happens in your life and in a split second decision you decide to kill yourself?    Research shows that most people that attempt suicide and live, regret their decision and after therapy go on to lead productive lives without further attempts.     A gun makes a suicide way more successful than other methods.    Middle aged men are one of the most likely groups to attempt suicide and use a gun.

I had 3 of my parents friends commit suicide in the last 2-3 years.    One used a gun the other two hanged themselves.    We didn't see it coming.    Be careful out there and think long and hard about the cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon.

Statistically, nearly 50% of humans get pregnant. That doesn't mean everyone should worry about it.

Military and police are obviously the among the most stressful jobs with a strong motivation to not seek help for mental illness, but not everyone is mentally ill.

Factors more relevant to safety of gun ownership:

1. Mental health / substance abuse / violence issues for self or family member
2. Safe storage of weapon (would you leave the car unlocked in the driveway with keys in it?)
3. Education on gun safety for self and family. It isn't enough to only know how to be safe at the range.

Everyone I knew that committed suicide had untreated mental illness and the means to commit suicide (which is possible for anyone that isn't naked in a padded cell, right?) Everyone I knew that had a kid that accidentally shoot himself left their weapon loaded, unlocked, and in a area accessible to their kids (uneducated about weapons as well).

To stay on topic: I have no idea what I'd do with a 50 cal even if I got one for free.

Sonorous Epithet

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2014, 10:16:27 PM »
A .50 BMG is not a Mustachian firearm.  At current ammo costs, well, you don't even want to know how much each shot costs...  :-)

Well, now you have to tell us.

tariskat

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2014, 07:21:59 AM »
My cl trader said if was about five bucks.

TomTX

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2014, 08:46:38 AM »

Yeah.  No.  If this guy used the gun in the commission of a crime, do you want any association?  Sell the car for cash.

If a .50BMG were used in a crime (not just stolen) - it would make national news.

Daleth

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2014, 09:02:12 AM »

Yeah.  No.  If this guy used the gun in the commission of a crime, do you want any association?  Sell the car for cash.

If a .50BMG were used in a crime (not just stolen) - it would make national news.

I only just realized that what we're talking about is A MACHINE GUN. I thought it was something like this (a .50 caliber handgun):
http://www.magnumresearch.com/firearms/magnum-research-desert-eagle-50-ae-black.asp

I'm glad the OP sensibly decided not to go ahead with this, but just for the record I think most if not all of us (myself included) gave advice that ranged from incomplete to bad on the legal front, because unless the .50 BMG falls into some exception I'm not aware of, you need a federal license to own a machine gun. You can't just buy one from some dude at a gun show--not legally anyway. Machine guns are subject to very different laws than any other kind of gun.

brewer12345

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2014, 09:34:30 AM »

Yeah.  No.  If this guy used the gun in the commission of a crime, do you want any association?  Sell the car for cash.

If a .50BMG were used in a crime (not just stolen) - it would make national news.

I only just realized that what we're talking about is A MACHINE GUN. I thought it was something like this (a .50 caliber handgun):
http://www.magnumresearch.com/firearms/magnum-research-desert-eagle-50-ae-black.asp

I'm glad the OP sensibly decided not to go ahead with this, but just for the record I think most if not all of us (myself included) gave advice that ranged from incomplete to bad on the legal front, because unless the .50 BMG falls into some exception I'm not aware of, you need a federal license to own a machine gun. You can't just buy one from some dude at a gun show--not legally anyway. Machine guns are subject to very different laws than any other kind of gun.

Um, no.  Try again.  This would be a perfectly legal rifle that anyone allowed to own a firearm could buy in my state.  Not a machine gun.

tariskat

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2014, 09:54:46 AM »
Yep. Hand guns and rifles are legit here, as long as I am legal to own one.

Daleth

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2014, 10:08:44 AM »
Yep. Hand guns and rifles are legit here, as long as I am legal to own one.

If it's a rifle, I take back what I said. When I googled .50 BMG, machine gun stuff came up--hence my concern.

tariskat

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2014, 10:46:42 AM »
It is a wicked big gun, yes ;)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2014, 07:03:53 PM »
Yes, a .50BMG M2 would be a fun toy to have.  Also extremely expensive to run.  Sheesh, at $5/round, I'd run myself into bankruptcy in about 5 minutes...

rebel100

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2014, 08:47:12 AM »
This is almost certainly a single shot rifle.  And honestly, without spending a couple grand on a scope you will never see the benefits of the rifle itself....

The rifle is likely something like this: ferret50.com  Those come brand new from the maker in a box at $3000.  If you buy the upper only it drops by $1000 (and you can then use your AR-15 lower to complete the build).....this will make some of your heads swim, the upper by itself is essentially unregulated as its the lower that has the traceable serial number....most of you can simply call them with a credit card number and have the upper sent directly to your house, no FFL needed at all (exceptions for places like California, NY, and Mass).

rebel100

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2014, 08:54:48 AM »

Yeah.  No.  If this guy used the gun in the commission of a crime, do you want any association?  Sell the car for cash.

If a .50BMG were used in a crime (not just stolen) - it would make national news.

Machine guns are subject to very different laws than any other kind of gun.
Not really a big deal to most, the registration is $200 and requires some paperwork, owning a machine gun isn't that big a deal.  http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#legally-acquire-nfa With that said, I doubt we are talking about anything more than a single shot rifle in this case....it's unlikely to be a MG.

James

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2014, 09:01:52 AM »
If it's a rifle, I take back what I said. When I googled .50 BMG, machine gun stuff came up--hence my concern.

An automatic 50 BMG would cost a LOT more than we are talking about here. Just remember that caliber has little to do with action.

But at $1.50-2.00 per round the automatic would get expensive a hell of a lot quicker... lol

 
This is almost certainly a single shot rifle.  And honestly, without spending a couple grand on a scope you will never see the benefits of the rifle itself....

I think the benefits for most shooters are a big bang and a solid punch to the shoulder... no need for a scope to get that... :D

rebel100

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2014, 09:11:12 AM »
I think the benefits for most shooters are a big bang and a solid punch to the shoulder... no need for a scope to get that... :D
Perhaps, your right.  I do think most folks buying these are essentially in it for the novelty...it's an impractical weapon.  My point is really that for the weapon to be used to its potential you will need good glass.  A 50 used at less than 500 yards is just overkill...you can inflict equal or greater damage at that range with a variety of rifles...no need for $5/round.  The benefit of the 50 is long range....which requires decent glass.

Daleth

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2014, 10:46:59 AM »

Yeah.  No.  If this guy used the gun in the commission of a crime, do you want any association?  Sell the car for cash.

If a .50BMG were used in a crime (not just stolen) - it would make national news.

Machine guns are subject to very different laws than any other kind of gun.
Not really a big deal to most, the registration is $200 and requires some paperwork, owning a machine gun isn't that big a deal.  http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#legally-acquire-nfa With that said, I doubt we are talking about anything more than a single shot rifle in this case....it's unlikely to be a MG.

We're off on a tangent, but it is not easy to get ATF approval for the transfer of a machine gun from one person to another. You cannot get it for machine guns made or imported after 1986, for one thing (see link: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-machine-guns.html).

As for pre-1986 machine guns, part of the application for ATF approval requires you to explain the reasons for which you have a "reasonable necessity" to own such a gun (see p.2: https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf). I personally do not know a whole lot of people who have a "reasonable necessity" to own a machine gun--do you?

rebel100

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2014, 11:26:05 AM »
We're off on a tangent, but it is not easy to get ATF approval for the transfer of a machine gun from one person to another. You cannot get it for machine guns made or imported after 1986, for one thing (see link: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-machine-guns.html).

As for pre-1986 machine guns, part of the application for ATF approval requires you to explain the reasons for which you have a "reasonable necessity" to own such a gun (see p.2: https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf). I personally do not know a whole lot of people who have a "reasonable necessity" to own a machine gun--do you?
The approval process is actually quite straightforward and it appears that "sport" is a reasonable necessity....I know probably a dozen guys that have gone through the procedure and have fully automatic weapons.  Same is true for silencers.  You seem to be under the impression that this is rare or difficult...it is neither, and that speaks to the OP's question...the scenario he laid out isn't even uncommon in some circles and is perfectly legal in most parts of the country. 

jnik

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #70 on: April 29, 2014, 02:51:02 PM »
I think the benefits for most shooters are a big bang and a solid punch to the shoulder... no need for a scope to get that... :D
At five bucks a pop, I'll clap my hands in your face and kick your shoulder. Heck, I'll do it for three-fiddy. ;)

workathomedad

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Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2014, 03:32:51 PM »
This gun would be the *worst* home defense gun ever, so that should even be part of the debate, lol.