Author Topic: Car for gun - legal trade?  (Read 24347 times)

tariskat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Car for gun - legal trade?
« on: April 22, 2014, 08:39:48 PM »
Hi all,

Here's an odd question.  I'm selling my car on Craigslist; it's KBB value is like 1200$.  A guy is offering to trade a .50 cal BMG with ammo and says that's worth 2800 if I sold that.  He 'needs a car fast.'

Can this be legal?  Would my best recourse be to bring it to a gun shop and ask them to evaluate it?

chucklesmcgee

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 613
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 08:43:53 PM »
To the best of my understanding, transfers of firearms can only be done through FFLs- licensed dealers who conduct a background check. If you want to sell a gun to someone, you usually have to go through one of those. Nearly every gun shop will agree, but may charge a fee of maybe $20-$50.

Honestly this has "sketchy" written all over it, but you're going to be in a pretty safe place agreeing to meet in a gun shop. 1. The guy isn't going to try and hurt you and 2. the FFL will be able to tell you if the gun has been stolen. That said, 99% chance this guy backs out if you request he meets you in a gun store.

brewer12345

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 08:46:29 PM »
Depends on your state laws.  Some states require a FFL to be involved in a person to person transfer, some do not.  Were you looking for a .50 BMG rifle?  If not, I cannot imagine why you would want to do this deal.

tariskat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 08:51:40 PM »
I am not, no.  I would just turn around and sell it to an actual gun shop, or make the guy meet me there, sell the shop the gun, and take his money.

RMD

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 158
  • Location: Overland Park, KS
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 09:17:00 PM »
Ummm...then why isn't he selling the gun outright and buying a car (from you, from Joe Blow) with the cash?  Something's not quite right...

tariskat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 09:35:34 PM »
Well, I haven't actually asked him if he would meet at a shop & whatnot.  I think he just wants a straight up trade.  I just wondered if this sounds legal.  So I want to know exactly how an FFL would factor in.. so off I go Googling more specifically for that.

frugalmom

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 89
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 09:42:24 PM »
Hi all,

Here's an odd question.  I'm selling my car on Craigslist; it's KBB value is like 1200$.  A guy is offering to trade a .50 cal BMG with ammo and says that's worth 2800 if I sold that.  He 'needs a car fast.'

Can this be legal?  Would my best recourse be to bring it to a gun shop and ask them to evaluate it?

Yeah.  No.  If this guy used the gun in the commission of a crime, do you want any association?  Sell the car for cash.

brewer12345

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 09:53:48 PM »
Well, I haven't actually asked him if he would meet at a shop & whatnot.  I think he just wants a straight up trade.  I just wondered if this sounds legal.  So I want to know exactly how an FFL would factor in.. so off I go Googling more specifically for that.

If your state requires a background check to transfer a firearm on face to face deals (my state requires this thanks to Gov. Lickenpooper), you and the other party show up at an FFL.  A fee is paid and the person who is to receive the boomstick fills out paperwork and a background check is done.  If the gun is clean and so is the buyer, everything is legal and the deal gets done.

This deal smells like a poorly run fish market in summer.  I would find another buyer.

tariskat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 09:56:28 PM »
Lol.. point taken.  It was an interesting thought for an hour or two.

zolotiyeruki

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3262
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 10:42:10 PM »
Yeah, it really depends on your location.  Some states outlaw the .50 BMG outright (CA, IL, NY, I'm sure a few others), but most states have no problem with it.

Some states don't care about face-to-face transactions.  Some require you to call in to verify the person is allowed to own firearms, some require that you transfer through an FFL. 

Lastly, $1200 is awful cheap for a .50BMG--"too good to be true".  New, they're close to $10k, and guns don't depreciate like most things.  If I saw that deal, and it was legit, I'd be all over it, not because I need such a gun, but because I could turn around and flip it at a several-thousand-dollar profit.  Although it'd be tempting to keep it for a couple months to see how many marshmallow peeps it could penetrate...

brewer12345

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 10:44:37 PM »
If I saw that deal, and it was legit, I'd be all over it, not because I need such a gun, but because I could turn around and flip it at a several-thousand-dollar profit.  Although it'd be tempting to keep it for a couple months to see how many marshmallow peeps it could penetrate...

I have always been unable to fathom why anyone needs a .50 BMG.  Pickup truck hunting?

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Missouri
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 07:00:41 AM »
Two things.

One, it really depends on your state. In MN there is no requirement to do the transfer through an FFL. I sold a hand gun to a gentleman outside of a sportman's store. I did ask for proof that he could legally purchase a hand gun, which he provided, then it was just a swap of cash for gun.

Two, some people like to trade. Especially when it comes to toys or cheap cars. When I was selling my motorcycle ($3500) I received more than one random trade offer. No firearms, but lots of other toys, a couple cars, a cheap truck, another vehicle + cash, etc. I wouldn't automatically assume it was shady. That said, if you don't feel comfortable, and don't understand your state's firearm laws, it's probably not the trade for you.

Although it does sound like a hell of a deal. A friend of mine has a .50 and that thing is a beast to fire. And lots of fun :)

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Missouri
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 07:04:57 AM »
If I saw that deal, and it was legit, I'd be all over it, not because I need such a gun, but because I could turn around and flip it at a several-thousand-dollar profit.  Although it'd be tempting to keep it for a couple months to see how many marshmallow peeps it could penetrate...

I have always been unable to fathom why anyone needs a .50 BMG.  Pickup truck hunting?

Some (lots of) people shoot for fun. And firing a .50 Cal is Fun with a capital F.

GoldenStache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 239
  • Location: Washington, DC
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 07:12:48 AM »
I agree about flipping it.  Sell him your car for a $1 and have him give you the gun (depending on the state).  My only concern would be that there is something seriously wrong with the gun.   

Daleth

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 07:41:15 AM »
Just adding my voice to the choir singing "This sounds sketchy as hell."
Verse 2: "Do you want to get arrested for receiving stolen property?"
Meet in a gun shop to check if it's stolen and he's legal (and your state may require transfers to be done there anyway--note, legally speaking, transfers include trades; the fact no actual cash would change hands doesn't make something illegal into something legal). If he won't meet you there, all our suspicious questions are answered in the affirmative.

T-Rex

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
  • Location: SF
  • Thirtysomething woman, military vet
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2014, 08:51:56 AM »
I like shooting, but I wouldn't do this in a million years. If he can't get it sold, there is something seriously wrong.

eil

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 246
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2014, 10:06:21 AM »
If you are not an expert on guns, you should not take a gun as a trade. /thread

tariskat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 10:52:39 AM »
I'm not an expert on cars, either, and I've purchased several.  I don't see how that disqualifies anything.

jba302

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2014, 11:31:26 AM »
I think if someone asked me to quickly trade a gun for a car, I'd be listening for sirens.

thesinecure

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 54
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2014, 12:15:02 PM »
I'm not an expert on cars, either, and I've purchased several.  I don't see how that disqualifies anything.

obviously depending on your state law determines whether its legal, but there are pretty clear risks regardless of that anwer that make this exchange pretty sketchy (chain of ownership, does the gun actually work, do you have clean title to the car, etc., etc.)

maybe there is some sort of arbitrage here which is why you're looking at it, but why take the risk?  if you want rid of the car or think you've got some upside in the trade, why not just schedule something with an authorized firearm dealer and get these answers?

seems like a much better option than taking advice from the forum

rebel100

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 102
  • Location: Central Florida
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2014, 12:24:07 PM »
Tell us your State and it may be possible to give specific information.

In Florida I buy/sell/trade firearms pretty regularly and would have no issue with your deal.  The Florida Department of Law Enforcement even has an online searchable database that will give you an indication if the weapon is stolen or not.

It's true that many 50's are pricey, like a Barret or McMillan.  There are several manufacturers out there that make much more budget friendly rifles, particularly single shot 50's, so the price may not be so far off.  The ammo to fire these however has gone through the roof, it can cost $5/shot or more to enjoy these, and that's for the cheap stuff.

tariskat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2014, 03:55:45 PM »
Minnesota.

hybrid

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Richmond, Virginia
  • A hybrid of MMM and thoughtful consumer.
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2014, 05:03:47 PM »
I have always been unable to fathom why anyone needs a (my edit: fill in the blank firearm)?

I feel the same way about 90% of the folks I know that own firearms (white bread guys living in safe suburbs). The rest hunt.

brewer12345

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2014, 05:48:17 PM »
I have always been unable to fathom why anyone needs a (my edit: fill in the blank firearm)?

I feel the same way about 90% of the folks I know that own firearms (white bread guys living in safe suburbs). The rest hunt.

Some feel it is a duty of citizenship.  Some want it for personal protection.  I hunt, target shoot and am within my rights to ventilate an intruder in my home.  I also carry concealed when hiking in state and national parks.  Since it is legal/a right of being a US citizen, meh.

I don't have a use for a 50 BMG since I am primarily interested in hunting (things other than dinosaurs) and target shooting (and I like keeping my limbs attached when doing so).  Others obviously just want the biggest bang possible (inside every man is a 10 year old boy, as they say).  Different strokes.

hybrid

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Richmond, Virginia
  • A hybrid of MMM and thoughtful consumer.
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2014, 05:59:27 PM »
Exactly my point. Wants vs. needs, No one needs a firearm to be a citizen, no one needs to target shoot. People enjoy firearms for all kinds of reasons, and the personal protection scenario is a pretty flimsy one for most of the folks I know. Richmond ain't Juarez. These guys want to feel safer and for some of them they really aren't. A mad spouse or a self-inflicted shot is a more likely scenario than the home invasion in the suburbs with the firearm at the ready.

But I digress...

brewer12345

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2014, 06:13:23 PM »
Exactly my point. Wants vs. needs, No one needs a firearm to be a citizen, no one needs to target shoot. People enjoy firearms for all kinds of reasons, and the personal protection scenario is a pretty flimsy one for most of the folks I know. Richmond ain't Juarez. These guys want to feel safer and for some of them they really aren't. A mad spouse or a self-inflicted shot is a more likely scenario than the home invasion in the suburbs with the firearm at the ready.

But I digress...

We aren't going to convince each other, so this is a waste of time.  Personally, I regard firearm ownership to be a right of American citizenship and I resent the creeping nanny state types that suggest otherwise.  But different strokes, so long as you respect my rights.

greaper007

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1129
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2014, 08:50:39 PM »
.50 cal, that seems like a really silly gun to buy for anyone short of Arnold.

T-Rex

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
  • Location: SF
  • Thirtysomething woman, military vet
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2014, 10:17:04 PM »
Exactly my point. Wants vs. needs, No one needs a firearm to be a citizen, no one needs to target shoot. People enjoy firearms for all kinds of reasons, and the personal protection scenario is a pretty flimsy one for most of the folks I know. Richmond ain't Juarez.

Richmond, VA... maybe. Richmond, CA.... close enough.

I agree there are people that are preoccupied with guns and self defense that may never have any use for it. However, I think owning one for personal protection is valid. There is no way to know if someone will choose your home to invade over any other home. Even in towns with good police presence, the police are not obligated to save you. Warning, this story is very disturbing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

As far as risks of getting shot by your own weapon... well, that varies for each person. I advocate safe storage of weapons for anyone and it is horrible not to if you have children. I wouldn't suggest gun ownership to people that like to cheat on their spouse.

greaper007

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1129
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2014, 04:23:45 AM »
I don't really get the home defense aspect for most people.    You're more likely to accidentally shoot a family member than an actual intruder.    Beyond that, what's the actual statistical likelihood of a violent break in?   I can't seem to find numbers online but I seem to recall the likelihood being somewhere in between being struck by lightning or winning the lottery category.

Here's the way I see it.   You may experience a violent encounter at some point in your life where having a weapon is useful.     More than likely though, you won't.    In the meantime every moment you have that weapon on your person or in your property it's throwing out a statistical chance of hurting you, a family member or another innocent person in an accident.    That's just the way it goes.   

Police officers and military members are considerably better trained than your average gun owner.    And they also have higher rates of gun use associated with suicides and accidents than society as a whole.    That's for a group that's closely watched and trained.    You don't know what your life will entail in the future.    Your wife may get mad at you and make a bukkake film, do you want a gun around when that happens?    Your kids will figure out all your passwords and hiding spots, I did.    What happens when they flip out over bullying, a breakup or their sexual identity?     

Statistically though, here's the one I'd be worried about.    What if something horrible happens in your life and in a split second decision you decide to kill yourself?    Research shows that most people that attempt suicide and live, regret their decision and after therapy go on to lead productive lives without further attempts.     A gun makes a suicide way more successful than other methods.    Middle aged men are one of the most likely groups to attempt suicide and use a gun.

I had 3 of my parents friends commit suicide in the last 2-3 years.    One used a gun the other two hanged themselves.    We didn't see it coming.    Be careful out there and think long and hard about the cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon.

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Missouri
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2014, 05:17:42 AM »
I had 3 of my parents friends commit suicide in the last 2-3 years.    One used a gun the other two hanged themselves.    We didn't see it coming.    Be careful out there and think long and hard about the cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon.

Shouldn't rope be considered more dangerous then, considering two of them hung themselves? Sounds like people should think long and hard about owning any rope or long cords and storing such dangerous materials in their house.

greaper007

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1129
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2014, 05:55:52 AM »
I had 3 of my parents friends commit suicide in the last 2-3 years.    One used a gun the other two hanged themselves.    We didn't see it coming.    Be careful out there and think long and hard about the cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon.

Shouldn't rope be considered more dangerous then, considering two of them hung themselves? Sounds like people should think long and hard about owning any rope or long cords and storing such dangerous materials in their house.

Do you have statistics to back that up, or do you just like to make jokes about tragic events?  Also, I'm not sure how one would "hung" themselves.   The correct word is "hanged," I learned that in 7th grade history class.

Don't ask me though, the experts that actually research this stuff have reams of data.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/

workathomedad

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 189
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2014, 06:03:29 AM »
LOL using the 50 BMG in a crime. Yeah, probably not. That gun is freakin' huge. Never heard of that before, it's not like a cheap little handgun used in robberies.

He probably hasn't sold it to a dealer, because dealers pay way too little and/or take a huge commission, where as at trade you can get "fair value" on your firearm without a middle-man. $2,800 is a high dollar value, and it's hard to find a private seller with the cash to to buy it (most would want to trade for like 5 other guns of lesser value or something), so trading for a car sounded like a good deal for him. In most states, private transfers of rifles are completely legal and don't require "background checks". Type in "your state name gun forums" and you will probably find a section for private sale/trade.

The only real worry you should have is if the gun is actually worth $2,800 to you, whether you have the knowledge to do a quick strip and verify it appears in good functioning order, and whether you'll be able to sell it for that much in the future if you want to. Not ridiculous paranoia that he shot down a helicopter and his planning to flip it on you, or that a normal person buying a gun will magically lead to terrible karma in liberal la-la land.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 06:10:11 AM by workathomedad »

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Missouri
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2014, 06:15:08 AM »
I had 3 of my parents friends commit suicide in the last 2-3 years.    One used a gun the other two hanged themselves.    We didn't see it coming.    Be careful out there and think long and hard about the cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon.

Shouldn't rope be considered more dangerous then, considering two of them hung themselves? Sounds like people should think long and hard about owning any rope or long cords and storing such dangerous materials in their house.

Do you have statistics to back that up, or do you just like to make jokes about tragic events?

My statistics were provided by you. You said to be careful of guns, then referenced three people who committed suicide, two by hanging and one by firearm. So then I made light of your comment that people should make a cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon and I mentioned rope, which is something that can be used for hangings, and said it is obviously dangerous to keep around the house.

greaper007

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1129
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2014, 06:51:54 AM »
I had 3 of my parents friends commit suicide in the last 2-3 years.    One used a gun the other two hanged themselves.    We didn't see it coming.    Be careful out there and think long and hard about the cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon.

Shouldn't rope be considered more dangerous then, considering two of them hung themselves? Sounds like people should think long and hard about owning any rope or long cords and storing such dangerous materials in their house.

Do you have statistics to back that up, or do you just like to make jokes about tragic events?

My statistics were provided by you. You said to be careful of guns, then referenced three people who committed suicide, two by hanging and one by firearm. So then I made light of your comment that people should make a cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon and I mentioned rope, which is something that can be used for hangings, and said it is obviously dangerous to keep around the house.

Yes, I wrote a reasoned post that wasn't emotional or glib and mentioned three very tragic, personal, preventable events.   You choose to make a joke, that's sort of douchey, don't you think?    Contribute something meaningful or move on.

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Missouri
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2014, 06:57:26 AM »
I had 3 of my parents friends commit suicide in the last 2-3 years.    One used a gun the other two hanged themselves.    We didn't see it coming.    Be careful out there and think long and hard about the cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon.

Shouldn't rope be considered more dangerous then, considering two of them hung themselves? Sounds like people should think long and hard about owning any rope or long cords and storing such dangerous materials in their house.

Do you have statistics to back that up, or do you just like to make jokes about tragic events?

My statistics were provided by you. You said to be careful of guns, then referenced three people who committed suicide, two by hanging and one by firearm. So then I made light of your comment that people should make a cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon and I mentioned rope, which is something that can be used for hangings, and said it is obviously dangerous to keep around the house.

Yes, I wrote a reasoned post that wasn't emotional or glib and mentioned three very tragic, personal, preventable events.   You choose to make a joke, that's sort of douchey, don't you think?    Contribute something meaningful or move on.

I've been making meaningful contributions to this thread. A thread that is about whether a gun for a car is a legal trade. Then you posted how people should make a cost benefit analysis about owning weapons, and brought up three personal tragedies in your life (one of which is related to gun ownership). Incidents that, as horrifying as they are, have nothing to do with the OP's question.

I have also known people who have committed suicide. Those were tragedies as well. If you want to have a debate about gun laws, or gun ownership, or suicide rates tied to gun ownership, why not start a new thread?

greaper007

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1129
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2014, 08:45:10 AM »
I had 3 of my parents friends commit suicide in the last 2-3 years.    One used a gun the other two hanged themselves.    We didn't see it coming.    Be careful out there and think long and hard about the cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon.

Shouldn't rope be considered more dangerous then, considering two of them hung themselves? Sounds like people should think long and hard about owning any rope or long cords and storing such dangerous materials in their house.

Do you have statistics to back that up, or do you just like to make jokes about tragic events?

My statistics were provided by you. You said to be careful of guns, then referenced three people who committed suicide, two by hanging and one by firearm. So then I made light of your comment that people should make a cost benefit analysis of owning a weapon and I mentioned rope, which is something that can be used for hangings, and said it is obviously dangerous to keep around the house.

Yes, I wrote a reasoned post that wasn't emotional or glib and mentioned three very tragic, personal, preventable events.   You choose to make a joke, that's sort of douchey, don't you think?    Contribute something meaningful or move on.

I've been making meaningful contributions to this thread. A thread that is about whether a gun for a car is a legal trade. Then you posted how people should make a cost benefit analysis about owning weapons, and brought up three personal tragedies in your life (one of which is related to gun ownership). Incidents that, as horrifying as they are, have nothing to do with the OP's question.

I have also known people who have committed suicide. Those were tragedies as well. If you want to have a debate about gun laws, or gun ownership, or suicide rates tied to gun ownership, why not start a new thread?

The thread went in that direction, I didn't direct it there.   Conversations do that sometimes.   Nonetheless, you could say "yeah, that probably wasn't the right response, sorry about that."    Oh well, have a good one.

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4608
  • Age: 11
  • Location: USA
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2014, 08:51:43 AM »
Even if it's not stolen/used in crime, it could have been illegally modified. That's a big no-no too.

workathomedad

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 189
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2014, 09:02:18 AM »
Even if it's not stolen/used in crime, it could have been illegally modified. That's a big no-no too.

A .50 BMG is probably the least-likely-in-the-world gun to have been "illegally modified".

workathomedad

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 189
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2014, 09:02:47 AM »
Even if it's not stolen/used in crime, it could have been illegally modified. That's a big no-no too.

A .50 BMG is probably the least-likely-in-the-world gun to have been "illegally modified". Any illegal modification (like short barrel? what are you thinking?) would basically make the gun useless.

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4608
  • Age: 11
  • Location: USA
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2014, 09:27:04 AM »
Even if it's not stolen/used in crime, it could have been illegally modified. That's a big no-no too.

A .50 BMG is probably the least-likely-in-the-world gun to have been "illegally modified". Any illegal modification (like short barrel? what are you thinking?) would basically make the gun useless.
That's a good point. I tend to tread a little too cautiously around people willing to trade large guns because they "need a car fast".

tariskat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2014, 10:57:10 AM »
LOL using the 50 BMG in a crime. Yeah, probably not. That gun is freakin' huge. Never heard of that before, it's not like a cheap little handgun used in robberies.

He probably hasn't sold it to a dealer, because dealers pay way too little and/or take a huge commission, where as at trade you can get "fair value" on your firearm without a middle-man. $2,800 is a high dollar value, and it's hard to find a private seller with the cash to to buy it (most would want to trade for like 5 other guns of lesser value or something), so trading for a car sounded like a good deal for him. In most states, private transfers of rifles are completely legal and don't require "background checks". Type in "your state name gun forums" and you will probably find a section for private sale/trade.

The only real worry you should have is if the gun is actually worth $2,800 to you, whether you have the knowledge to do a quick strip and verify it appears in good functioning order, and whether you'll be able to sell it for that much in the future if you want to. Not ridiculous paranoia that he shot down a helicopter and his planning to flip it on you, or that a normal person buying a gun will magically lead to terrible karma in liberal la-la land.

Okay, this is also what I was wondering about - why he would take half-value for his gun, instead of just selling it himself for full price.  I also couldn't imagine a likely scenario where it was used illegally - LOL @ shot down a helicopter.  He didn't seem curious whether I could own a gun, though, and I know it is an offense here to sell a gun to someone who can't own one (like, if I'd been convicted of serious crimes).  Without a title transfer like cars, though, there wouldn't really be a way to prove I'd bought it from him if I turned around and used it for something bad and they wanted to know where I'd gotten it from.

On the other hand, trading for 5 guns of lesser value seems easier to sell separately.  It looks like he's from a smaller town, though, so maybe he just can't sell it or trade it around there.

jba302

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2014, 02:26:06 PM »
Minnesota.

If you are in northern Minnesota then guns are essentially cash and I don't think there's anything wrong with the offer. It's like Montana up there.

James

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1680
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Rice Lake, WI
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2014, 02:49:36 PM »
I grew up in MN, I now live in Wisconsin.

I would love a 50 bmg, it would be great fun to shoot. I don't hunt, and I rarely shoot my guns at all, but shooting a 50 bmg has been on my list of things I'd like to do some day... :)

A 50 BMG can be had pretty cheap now days, so the value just depends on what it actually is and how it would actually sell in the market. The quick question for him would be how he determined that value. The other first question would be to ask what particular gun it was. I would need to be pretty darn sure it was a great deal for me before even considering it, but there is a chance it is a great deal.

If it was me and I was interested, I would just meet at a reputable gun shop and have them check it out. If I felt I was significantly "trading up", I would make the deal and go shoot the gun a few times. Then I would sell the gun because owning one isn't in my long term plans.

But from what you have said I would simply suggest walking away, I highly doubt you would make enough on the deal to make it worth your trouble.

Regarding the gun debate, does anyone really think it will be won in an internet forum? :D  Fun to hear people pontificate about things they know nothing about. And yes, I'm sure I have done the same myself over time. :)

hybrid

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Richmond, Virginia
  • A hybrid of MMM and thoughtful consumer.
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2014, 07:19:36 PM »
Exactly my point. Wants vs. needs, No one needs a firearm to be a citizen, no one needs to target shoot. People enjoy firearms for all kinds of reasons, and the personal protection scenario is a pretty flimsy one for most of the folks I know. Richmond ain't Juarez. These guys want to feel safer and for some of them they really aren't. A mad spouse or a self-inflicted shot is a more likely scenario than the home invasion in the suburbs with the firearm at the ready.

But I digress...

We aren't going to convince each other, so this is a waste of time.  Personally, I regard firearm ownership to be a right of American citizenship and I resent the creeping nanny state types that suggest otherwise.  But different strokes, so long as you respect my rights.

The gun lobby won in the SC, you have nothing to worry about legislatively. And with the recent law that passed in Georgia, the NRA notches yet another in a long string of wins. What creeping nanny state exactly? The gun lobby has been routing the Brady supporters for years now.

(For the record, my position on handguns is similar to cigarettes. I don't want to outlaw them, I simply think they are a poor choice like biking without a helmet is a poor choice)




libertarian4321

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2014, 12:32:36 AM »

Lastly, $1200 is awful cheap for a .50BMG--"too good to be true". 

I was going to ask OP if there was any human blood spatter on the rifle.  That might explain the discount price.  :)

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8760
  • Registered member
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2014, 12:42:09 AM »
This deal smells like a poorly run fish market in summer.  I would find another buyer.

Thanks, Siuan Sanche.  Please tell me you read WoT.

James

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1680
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Rice Lake, WI
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2014, 06:23:32 AM »
(For the record, my position on handguns is similar to cigarettes. I don't want to outlaw them, I simply think they are a poor choice like biking without a helmet is a poor choice)


I had to chuckle, because many on the self defense side would suggest the exact opposite. Carrying a gun would be similar to a helmet, unlikely to be used but might save your life if you really needed it. :D


Just interesting how different people can have such polar perspectives. I'm not at all interested in the actual debate regarding which perspective is correct, just thought it was interesting how examples could be used for either side depending on the perspective.

workathomedad

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 189
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2014, 06:54:17 AM »
Sorry about if I made it a gun debate.

As far as the actual deal, as others mentioned - I wouldn't do it, because I would never shoot it or enjoy it, and the ammo for a .50 is like $5/round or something insane. Selling it would also be a hassle, as the market for it would appeal to is pretty small.

jba302

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2014, 08:31:17 AM »

Just interesting how different people can have such polar perspectives. I'm not at all interested in the actual debate regarding which perspective is correct, just thought it was interesting how examples could be used for either side depending on the perspective.

I'm going to use some fanciful handwaving here. I recall reading several variations of a theme I'll call, and has probably been called before, the self vs community mind set. People tend to be hard wired one way or the other, and some/many of their beliefs can more or less be extrapolated from that initial mind set. Pro-gun people trend toward self-reliance, general distrust of governmental controls, etc. and Anti-gun put their faith in community protection via police, distrust in individual selfish decision making, etc.

Granted putting the entirety of human perception and psychology on a singular polarized line is absurd, it can be useful as one way to recognize why some arguments go in wild directions.

BlueMR2

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2008
Re: Car for gun - legal trade?
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2014, 04:06:55 PM »
Hi all,

Here's an odd question.  I'm selling my car on Craigslist; it's KBB value is like 1200$.  A guy is offering to trade a .50 cal BMG with ammo and says that's worth 2800 if I sold that.  He 'needs a car fast.'

Can this be legal?  Would my best recourse be to bring it to a gun shop and ask them to evaluate it?

Skipping all the parts that have already been covered in this thread...

A .50 BMG is not a Mustachian firearm.  At current ammo costs, well, you don't even want to know how much each shot costs...  :-)