Author Topic: Canadian looking for help with the math  (Read 1294 times)

cashcowcanuck

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Canadian looking for help with the math
« on: July 29, 2021, 03:19:45 PM »
Hi! I posted already on the Case Studies, and had my hand rightfully slapped for the stupid shit I keep doing with my money. Fair enough, I know what I have to do and have plans (some of which will take a year) before I can start the 70% savings = 7 years until FIRE countdown can begin. Possibly less than that if I'm TRULY committed.

Now, here's my main question when it comes to how to do the calculation:

I am 43 years old, and I have NOTHING saved, so I'm basically just a lined sheet at this point. I was recently given a government benefit of just over $1000 tax free every month for life, as long as I remain a Canadian resident (there go my 'moving to England' dreams!). Now, I make $63k/yr. At first when I did the math, I thought, hey, it says to save 70% of your income each month, which for me would be $2100 a month after tax. So, to avoid being EXTREMELY frugal, doesn't that mean I can relax a bit, and save $550 per pay from my regular bi-weekly pay, plus add the government benefit that I haven't really even had time to get used to (benefit just started in January)? Or am I doing the math wrong? I don't know, something doesn't seem right about it.

Using the calculator for how much I'll need to live based on that 4% rule, I'll need around $35k, or $1.2 million. I THINK I did that math right. I have to continue to rent, as I am paying much lower each month that I would be if I owned in this VHCOL area (Vancouver Island). I do have plans to move a tiny bit East (Alta), but for now, with my current job, I'm trying to save what I can.

I assume one of the first things I'll hear from all of you is that if I actually tried to save that $2100/month and also included that gov't benefit, I could save that much more, that much faster, and I love the idea, but I think it'll take me quite a bit to get used to it and commit to it. It's a massive change, and though I can totally do riding the bike to work, I JUST traded in my $40k vehicle for a $27k vehicle, thinking I was being all smart for saving myself almost $8k, only to read more of the MMM site and discover what a huge mistake I'd made. Unfortunately in this province, Right To Return doesn't exist, so I'm stuck with this vehicle. I have no consumer debt other than that, save for about $1300 on a CC that I should be able to pay off next month (I had to clear up a CRA balance this month, so that gov't benefit was used for that).

Any ideas here?

Freedomin5

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2021, 02:53:02 AM »
If you want to spend $35k a year in retirement, you only need $875k.

If you want to nerd out a bit, check out this calculator. I think it was developed by one of the forum members.

https://engaging-data.com/fire-calculator/

Another good FIRE calculator is FIREcalc.
https://firecalc.com/

cashcowcanuck

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2021, 07:55:50 PM »
Thanks for those links! I checked out the top one, and it still says $900k on $35000/yr spending. Currently doing the math again as to what I spend now, to make sure I didn't miss anything.

SunnyDays

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2021, 10:54:58 PM »
Sure, you could do it the way you suggest.  The $1000 could also be extra - it depends on how quickly you want to retire (or at least be FI) and how much you’re willing to sacrifice for it.

I’m curious how you’re getting 1K a month out of government, if you don’t mind saying?

You could also sell that 27K car and replace it with something around 10K. 

cashcowcanuck

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2021, 08:36:55 AM »
I'd love to sell the car, but it's only worth $17000, I had to take the balance left from the other vehicle that I traded in. I think it might make more sense to just pay it off as fast as I can, and then sell it? Or keep it as my 'for emergencies only' vehicle?  It has 148000km on it, but I don't drive a lot, so I assume it'll last me for quite a while.

And the money is from Veteran's Affairs.

Editing to add: That's also a question that's been idly floating around in my head: I REALLY struggle with math, so I apologize if I am getting this calculation way wrong, but I am trying to figure out how to do this...I can just figure out what I need each year, then subtract $12000 from it, since I'll get that much each year guaranteed for life, and then that becomes my new FIRE number, right? Is that right?

Sure, you could do it the way you suggest.  The $1000 could also be extra - it depends on how quickly you want to retire (or at least be FI) and how much you’re willing to sacrifice for it.

I’m curious how you’re getting 1K a month out of government, if you don’t mind saying?

You could also sell that 27K car and replace it with something around 10K.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 09:50:38 AM by cashcowcanuck »

Stashasaurus

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2021, 09:58:27 AM »
Hi cashcowcanuck, in regards to the car:

If you were to pay off enough to stop being underwater on the car just using the government pension you would be able to sell it and go to no car? Rent/can/Uber/car share? That would be a big improvement in your net worth.

cashcowcanuck

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2021, 10:05:04 AM »
Yeah, I thought about that too. The weather here is extremely temperate, so I'm quite sure I could easily buy a $3000 gas scooter to get to and from work. I live about 11 blocks away. All I'd need are some weather proof clothing (like a water proof jacket, and a UV blocking shirt/jacket of some kind) and a helmet. You can't beat the $50/month insurance cost along with $12/mo for gas, versus the...well insane amount of money I spend right now.

SunnyDays

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2021, 11:16:25 AM »
Unless needed very rarely, don't even consider renting a car.  I currently have one due to an accident, and I'm getting a "good" rate through the insurance company ($40 CDN/day), but the usual rate is $85/day!  And then it's wise to buy insurance on top of that, and even through my insurance company, rather than through the rental agency, it's another $80/month.  Plus trying to get a rental right now is HARD.

daverobev

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2021, 11:36:53 AM »
Very simply, yearly amount you need x 25 = amount you need invested.

You already have 12k free of everything, so obviously the amount you need invested is (12x25 = 300k) less.

Blank sheet - considering your situation you want to use your RRSP room to knock yourself down to a low tax bracket, and then TFSA. Then you can take money out of the RRSP when retired. I assume you have loads and loads of unused RRSP room.

Presumably you've been paying CPP all these years, and have lived in Canada too, so you'll get OAS + CPP - you will be fine regardless.

Car - yeah you just need to find the difference and pay off the loan if you want to sell it. It is easier to pay off the loan completely first, you will almost certainly get a better price for it privately. Then just buy a 10 year old Hyundai Elantra or whatever. If it is 11 blocks to work, can you just walk?

Are you rent-protected (ie, the yearly increase is capped)? I mean.. $900 CAD isn't that bad. Considering the costs of owning (maintenance, property tax, repairs... heating systems aren't cheap).

I think you just need to buckle down and get on with it. Open an RRSP (Questrade are good and simple, I haven't looked at other options for a while though). Start paying in every paycheque or at least once a month. ETF buys are commission free.

cashcowcanuck

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2021, 12:24:13 PM »
thanks for that! That brings my fire calculated number from 1.1 million to $800,000, which seems a lot more doable.

Now, I have $1400 in my TFSA through Wealthsimple, but haven't done much more than that, as I was paying off a CRA debt. I just cleared that debt this week, so all future $1000 cheques from the gov't will be invested, along with whatever I can save from my regular cheques. I have been curious as to why so many people balked at my grocery bills, so today, when I went grocery shopping $140, I went through the receipt to consciously pick out areas that I will be able to save in. The first purchase that I made today that I normally wouldn't make was for a tshirt from Superstore. It was $15 versus the $60+ that the only other store in town I can shop at would be able to offer (it's a weight thing), so I considered it to be a hell of a deal. The other place was definitely my face wash. At $7/pop, which is actually $4 cheaper than the old brand I used to use, either I need to see if the dollar store sells the same kind or something similar, or I need to find a new kind of soap. I have a hard time with regular soaps, as they usually dry out my skin, including Dove.  There were 2 other examples of things that I could have bought cheaper or just avoided buying that would have brought the bill down to $100. It still felt gross leaving Superstore with just 2 bags and some TP after having spent that much.

OAS and CPP - yes, that's accurate. I am not counting those until I hit 65 though, so these calculations are more about what I can live on between when I retire and when those benefits start coming in, and even then, I want to invest them if I can/am allowed.

Car - Yeah that's the plan. I think if I rounded up the $10k, sold the vehicle for the $17k it's worth, then sent that extra $10k to Scotiabank, where my loan is through, I could clear up that debt completely. But I do need to have a vehicle for a few things, and winter is coming (though it's really not a big deal here on the island), so that's something to mildly worry about as well. I'll keep an eye out on the AutoTrader site and see what max fuel efficiency I can get for what cost, and then do research on how long those vehicles last. In fact, I'll do that after I'm done here.

I am not rent protected. I am going to ask my neighbour when I see her next, whether this rental company tends to keep the rent the same if you're a good tenant. The other 3 units all have people who have been in them for over 8 years, so it can't be that bad, living here. If that's the case, then I'll budget based on that. I believe you're now allowed to raise rent by more than maybe 2 or 3% each year, so it won't be too bad, even if it does get jacked up. And you probably don't know this, but $900 is EXTREMELY cheap for this island. I looked to see what would happen if this apartment burned down, and all I could find was ONE building that offered micro-suites (300sq) for the same $900 I pay now, for my 600sq ft. I am not interested in that, so I'll be checking with the bakery below whether they're on top of their cleaning, so there's no massive grease fires that'll take out this whole block. I do have renters insurance, though.

I do know that about ETFs, and just told one of my pensions to change the way the investing is happening (I never looked into it before last week) and made it super aggressive, weighted 90% ETFs and 10% bonds, for now. That's $15 that should increase nicely over the next couple of years.

I'm curious why you're saying to max out RRSP first? Is that for the tax 'refund' come tax time? And unfortunately, I have 100% of my room available to me.

Very simply, yearly amount you need x 25 = amount you need invested.

You already have 12k free of everything, so obviously the amount you need invested is (12x25 = 300k) less.

Blank sheet - considering your situation you want to use your RRSP room to knock yourself down to a low tax bracket, and then TFSA. Then you can take money out of the RRSP when retired. I assume you have loads and loads of unused RRSP room.

Presumably you've been paying CPP all these years, and have lived in Canada too, so you'll get OAS + CPP - you will be fine regardless.

Car - yeah you just need to find the difference and pay off the loan if you want to sell it. It is easier to pay off the loan completely first, you will almost certainly get a better price for it privately. Then just buy a 10 year old Hyundai Elantra or whatever. If it is 11 blocks to work, can you just walk?

Are you rent-protected (ie, the yearly increase is capped)? I mean.. $900 CAD isn't that bad. Considering the costs of owning (maintenance, property tax, repairs... heating systems aren't cheap).

I think you just need to buckle down and get on with it. Open an RRSP (Questrade are good and simple, I haven't looked at other options for a while though). Start paying in every paycheque or at least once a month. ETF buys are commission free.

daverobev

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2021, 02:09:06 PM »
RRSP vs TFSA is all about income tax now vs later.

TFSA is post-tax money. You've 'locked in' the tax rate. Whatever your marginal rate is, that's what you paid on the money in your TFSA.

RRSP is a little different because it is based on your marginal tax rate NOW and your rate when you take the money out again, which is unknown. IF you want to go early retirement you can take money out of your RRSP in a lower tax bracket than you are now in, almost guaranteed, because you won't have other taxable income.

When you get to OAS/CPP, that income is added to your taxable income, so you don't want to end up taking $X from your RRIF if you end up being taxed *more* because you have a lot of other income. Also you don't want to die with loads in your RRSP because then it gets liquidated all at once -> higher tax bracket coming out than when it went in.

If the province limits the yearly increase that's what I meant by rent protected. The landlord can't just increase it by 25% to keep up with market rates or whatever. Maybe that isn't quite the right term. You're still at risk of other things (I think - eg in Ontario at least, you can be evicted if the owner wants to move in... then can then live there a bit and decide to rent it out again at +whatever% they like).

Anon-E-Mouze

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2021, 01:56:39 PM »
I am not rent protected.

If you live in British Columbia (I saw the reference to Vancouver Island), I think you are rent-protected. Most residential tenancies are covered by a law that limits the annual increase to a specified percentage (which varies from year to year based on inflation) and subject to certain exceptions (e.g. if your landlord makes significant capital improvements to the building - but in such a case the rent increase must be approved in advance by an arbitrator). The landlord can step up the rent between tenants (i.e. if you move out and someone else moves in) but is subject to restrictions on increases for a tenant who remains in place. Annual rent increases historically have been in the range of about 2-4.5% (0% in 2021). Find out more here:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/during-a-tenancy/rent-increases

I believe that in Alberta, there is no limit on the amount a landlord can increase the rent, but they can only raise rents a maximum of once every twelve months:

https://www.alberta.ca/information-tenants-landlords.aspx#jumplinks-7

So you would be at greater risk of spiralling and unpredictable rent increases in Alberta than in BC.

cashcowcanuck

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Re: Canadian looking for help with the math
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2021, 11:48:20 AM »
Oh interesting. I know there's no limit to how much the landlord can jack the rent by between tenants here in BC, and the reason I am considering staying in this unit is because it's not a house, so the landlord can't say anything like, 'I want to move into the unit'. Plus the management company is in Victoria, and they own a few other units, including a few in Paris! It's above a business, so massive upgrades to the building would like be cost shared by the businesses below, since they're all attached to each other. They are quite good at getting things fixed when I ask, which is great. thanks for the link, I'll give it a good read!

I am not rent protected.

If you live in British Columbia (I saw the reference to Vancouver Island), I think you are rent-protected. Most residential tenancies are covered by a law that limits the annual increase to a specified percentage (which varies from year to year based on inflation) and subject to certain exceptions (e.g. if your landlord makes significant capital improvements to the building - but in such a case the rent increase must be approved in advance by an arbitrator). The landlord can step up the rent between tenants (i.e. if you move out and someone else moves in) but is subject to restrictions on increases for a tenant who remains in place. Annual rent increases historically have been in the range of about 2-4.5% (0% in 2021). Find out more here:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/during-a-tenancy/rent-increases

I believe that in Alberta, there is no limit on the amount a landlord can increase the rent, but they can only raise rents a maximum of once every twelve months:

https://www.alberta.ca/information-tenants-landlords.aspx#jumplinks-7

So you would be at greater risk of spiralling and unpredictable rent increases in Alberta than in BC.