Can anybody retire early, or do you have to get a head start in life for that?

[Playing with Fire UK]

What does PITA stand for?

Pain in the ass.

[stashgrower]

You are motivated by the topic and helping people have a better life. What are other jobs where you can help people live better?

[KittenJoe]

Sitting in a cubicle can be miserable, or it can be fucking great, or anything in between. Where someone works doesn't tell you anything in 2017.

Find what you want, find what you can reasonably achieve, and go from there. Nobody can do it for you.

That's the plan, and working a cubical would be fine if I can brows the internet but honestly I really don't understand why cubicals exist when people can just work from home lol. Like what's the difference other than fewer call outs from being sick or having bad weather or not being able to find day care. It just seems to me to make so much more sense.

I'd just like to point out that working from home is definitely not for everyone.  You have to be VERY highly motivated, GREAT at time management, and responsible.  It is extremely easy to put off your work when you work from home and if you aren't a very focused person you can easily fall behind on your work.  If you have the right personality to manage your own work, working from home is amazing.  You usually have to prove that you can get a certain job done to a high level first before an employer is going to loosen the reins and let you work from home, IME.

That is true, I still think it's underrated and under utilized though.

[KittenJoe]

That is SO interesting and also makes complete sense. Haha, that's OK at least I'm not dealing drugs as bad as pharmacists do some times. In fact, people sometimes use my drugs to get OFF pharmacy drugs lol (that's one thing I LOVE about this job, seeing how much marijuana actually helps people and seeing them come back pain free with no addictive weird side effect drugs). Anyway, back on topic, I guess I should really start seriously thinking about what my next risk should be. I just got done working at ross and traveling every year and I've been at my new job for 6 months this month actually, I wanted to give it another 6 months at least even if I downgrade to part time status maybe but then I lose the health insurance, I'm really scared to not have health insurance lol.

Your love for a part of your job IS THE TOPIC. This is exciting and important information. Do your colleagues know about this interest? Can you learn even more? Could you set up a website (be super-careful about the legalities - you are not a medic and your product is illegal in many areas) to help more people? Does your dispensary have a website? Should it? Could you run the "getting off pharmacy drugs" page?

Health insurance is a PITA, I don't suppose your parents could add you to theirs (guessing not, but worth a try).

You better believe I love the topic! It's what keeps me going through all the mundane retail work and human drama. It's basically my job to make people's day better lol. My company is The Green Solution they don't need me for anything than just being a salesfloor person, but I was thinking of starting a blog but I was thinking of making it about why change is so hard and include some things I'm doing to accomplish it. My parents are retired, but I get better health insurance through my company than I did with my dad anyway lol. What does PITA stand for?

Just wanted to chime in with a couple of simple thoughts. 

1.  I don't make a crazy income either, but I'm getting there, you can totally do this.  And I live in an extremely HCOL area (LA).  It can be done by anyone, anywhere.

2.  If you like the industry you are already working in, stick to it!  This is an emerging market, well in the legal world anyway, and there maybe opportunities that you don't even know about yet or don't even exist yet that you can tap into if you stick with something you're already interested in and engaged by. 

3.  In retail; being honest, on time, and dependable can be a lucrative set of skills.  Don't underestimate yourself, just because you don't like hard labor or cubicles. 

4.  First rule of retail, don't spend all your money on the product you're selling.  Spend it on the things that have real meaning in your life.  This is true if you sell clothes, ice cream, or Marijuana. 

Good luck, I wish you nothing but the best.

Some very good encouragement here, thank you. Yeah, I've been and would be feeling pretty hopeless without the ideas from this website, and having an active forum full of honestly intelligent and decent people is just above and beyond awesome. I'll be honest though it was harder to resist buying cloths when I worked clothing retail than it is to resist buying weed haha. Thank you so much!

[KittenJoe]

You are motivated by the topic and helping people have a better life. What are other jobs where you can help people live better?

Well I really looked into being a physical therapy assistant or occupational physical therapy assistant. Sadly, that's 6 years of schooling for a max of $25 an hour job, which to me does't sound even remotely like enough of a pay off. I am not doing anything involving bodily fluids.

[doggyfizzle]

If you can pass a drug test and are physically able, start looking for physical labor jobs in the DJ Basin with an oil field services company or look and see if Cummins (an amazing co to work for) offers any technician training programs in your area - they PAY you to go get your AA and then guarantee you a $20+/hour job working in a service center upon completion. 

[Dicey]

I've been thinking about how to respond to this question and have read the meandering discussion with interest. I guess it depends on what you call a head start. Being born into or moving to a developed country would seem to be the biggest factor. Having parents who cared for you is also a big help.

My parents would not pay for college and made too much money for me to qualify for aid other than loans, which I had zero interest in (get it?). I also had five stair step siblings right behind me. I got a job and went to work immediately after high school. I worked full time the first semester and started Junior College in the spring. I worked as many as three jobs and earned a number of small merit-based scholarships to pay my way. After I got an AA, it was my plan to work for a year, declare myself emancipated from my parents so I could apply for need based scholarships, but the universe laughed at my plans.

Just a few months into my new "career" job (Starting salary in 1978: $13k and a company car. Woot!), I was diagnosed with cancer.  The company was so good to me while I was going through treatment that I decided I was going to stay for five years as a way of thanking them for their generosity. At the five year point, I decided I wanted other things on my bucket list more than going back to school. I also knew I could never go without health insurance. I decided I wanted to buy a house more than I wanted to go back to college. I never did get a four-year degree, but I did get my house, and many more since then.

I stretched my nose over the $100k salary finish line exactly once in my career. I was self-employed at the time and that was before taxes or expenses, so I wasn't exactly a high earner, especially compared to a lot of folks around here.

What I was was determined. I was determined to enjoy life as I was living it, because the future was not guaranteed. I was also determined to save like mad to meet my goals and retire early. The term FIRE hadn't entered the mainstream lexicon, but my Dad was a gub'ment employee who retired at age 50 with 25 years of service. Except he kinda had to, because he was an Air Traffic Controller with a wife and six kids to support. It was 1981 and he was not about to cross a picket line, so he retired.  I knew if he could do it, I could too.

I consider myself privileged because I had two parents, who stayed married to each other, who loved me and my many siblings. I had an excellent primary education, with a few outstanding teachers. I was smart and good in school. I was also blessed with a long, lean frame and attractively arranged features. Yup, that's worth something, and that's as messed up as it sounds. Is it the kind of head start you're referring to? Dunno. But there are plenty of people who have been given far more and ended up with much, much less.

It doesn't matter where you start; it matters where you end. Where you begin is largely a result of genetic roulette. Where you end up is far less random.

[ChpBstrd]

Don't do that.  The people who get raises and promotions are the ones who provide more than the bare minimum they are paid for. 

100% correct. I've seen it.

[BlueHouse]

Why not just get high every day and live in your parents' house forever?  Don't bother trying to better yourself by taking free classes or going for a degree because that would be, like, 6 years where you'd have to apply yourself to something that is slightly taxing.  Also, make sure you don't do anything physical, including exercise, because with you being lazy, you'll want to make sure your health insurance is subsidized since you'll get sick and old long before you should. 
Oh, so you've already achieved everything above...how is that working out? 


Sol nailed it.  You have been so privileged, now put some of that potential to use and try harder. 
1.  sacrifice by spending less.
2.  Work hard so you can earn more. 

Find a skill.  You're in the wild west of the pot distribution business right now.  the people who get in on the ground floor are the ones who will make the most out of it.  You have NOTHING to risk, so why not go for it?  Start reading about the bootleggers who made millions during prohibition and see if you can learn something from them.  If you like baking, create a new edible and make your name there.  I'd much rather have a famous baker making edibles than a pot shop baking brownies.  Find your niche by CREATING a new need in the market. 
Sadly, I can't do this because I work for Federal Govt and weed is still illegal for me.  (and I take that seriously)

[aperture]

That is SO interesting and also makes complete sense. Haha, that's OK at least I'm not dealing drugs as bad as pharmacists do some times. In fact, people sometimes use my drugs to get OFF pharmacy drugs lol (that's one thing I LOVE about this job, seeing how much marijuana actually helps people and seeing them come back pain free with no addictive weird side effect drugs).

Hey KJ, thanks for an interesting thread.  There is some really awesome stuff here.

In the life I had before the life I had before this life, I was a stoner.  Like all ex-something-or-others, I have advice for my former self that may not apply to you at all.  Before I share the advice, I will tee up my former self.  I had two close friends and we were super tight.  I was painfully shy with the ladies, and so seldom found myself moving past the friend/acquaintance zone.  I worked for low wages in jobs that didn't pay much. I seldom had a working vehicle and lived in a city that required a car to navigate anything.  Intoxicants of any sort were my magic carpet.

Here is the advice I have for my former self: Nothing you are ever going to accomplish is going to come out of the next  hit out of your bong. In fact, every hit on that pipe is putting a wedge between you and whatever dream you may want to dream about living differently.  Without a dream, you cannot make a goal.  Without a goal, you cannot initiate movement and you cannot persevere when the things you want are hard to achieve.  Unable to dream, set goals or have any confidence that you can persevere, you will remain in your crap, and dream little dreams that come from your pipe. 

tl;dr: smoking the marijuana may or may not be a problem for you, but it was for me, and if I had chosen to keep smoking, I would still be making a little more than minimum wage, and hoping some great opportunity would drop in my lap.   

Best wishes, aperture.

[Metta]

You are motivated by the topic and helping people have a better life. What are other jobs where you can help people live better?

Well I really looked into being a physical therapy assistant or occupational physical therapy assistant. Sadly, that's 6 years of schooling for a max of $25 an hour job, which to me does't sound even remotely like enough of a pay off. I am not doing anything involving bodily fluids.

My sister is a physical therapy assistant so I have a little more knowledge of this field than I do of most others. It is a long and challenging education program. Denver has one of the best training programs in the country and their PTAs are in demand (just not in Denver because Denver produces an oversupply). According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, PTAs can expect to make anywhere from $35,000 to $79,000 a year. The average yearly salary for a full time PTA is $56,610, which is not a bad salary. So your information that the salary max is $25 an hour is not correct.

Now, what you obviously didn't find out since you are not a PTA and do not have a sister who is one, is that PTAs can often write their own tickets when it comes to temporary or travel positions. So for example, there are places in New Mexico that hire PTAs from Denver to stay there a few months, they pay all housing expenses and they pay a competitive salary for a few months. Then the PTA goes back home to Denver. My sister cannot do this because she has a teenager at home but she plans to take full advantage of this great deal once both children have flown the coop. She gets to have both her Denver home most of the year and a great income with someone else paying for her travel and expenses.

But what about cruise ships I hear you ask. Apparently PTAs who do not have teenage children at home can also do short stints on cruise ships with their salaries paid along with all the other amenities. Then they go back home to Denver and bank the money that they didn't need to spend while on a cruise because someone else paid for their food and shelter.

This is just one example of information you cannot get from outside the profession. There are tons of things like this but you have to be willing to put yourself out there where things are happening.

You have to be daring. I got my first writing/editing job in the middle of a recession in Denver by going to the place I wanted to work and saying, "I'm a hard worker and a great writer. Let me work for you for three months. If you like me, hire me. If you don't, you're out nothing." They hired me full-time after only a month of free work.

You need to be flexible, daring, savvy, and hard-working to make your stash. You need to be frugal to allow your stash to grow into significant cash. This doesn't drop into your lap without you making yourself into someone who can demand a high income or without engaging in some form of geographical arbitrage.

[Dicey]

You are motivated by the topic and helping people have a better life. What are other jobs where you can help people live better?

Well I really looked into being a physical therapy assistant or occupational physical therapy assistant. Sadly, that's 6 years of schooling for a max of $25 an hour job, which to me does't sound even remotely like enough of a pay off. I am not doing anything involving bodily fluids.

My sister is a physical therapy assistant so I have a little more knowledge of this field than I do of most others. It is a long and challenging education program. Denver has one of the best training programs in the country and their PTAs are in demand (just not in Denver because Denver produces an oversupply). According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, PTAs can expect to make anywhere from $35,000 to $79,000 a year. The average yearly salary for a full time PTA is $56,610, which is not a bad salary. So your information that the salary max is $25 an hour is not correct.

Now, what you obviously didn't find out since you are not a PTA and do not have a sister who is one, is that PTAs can often write their own tickets when it comes to temporary or travel positions. So for example, there are places in New Mexico that hire PTAs from Denver to stay there a few months, they pay all housing expenses and they pay a competitive salary for a few months. Then the PTA goes back home to Denver. My sister cannot do this because she has a teenager at home but she plans to take full advantage of this great deal once both children have flown the coop. She gets to have both her Denver home most of the year and a great income with someone else paying for her travel and expenses.

But what about cruise ships I hear you ask. Apparently PTAs who do not have teenage children at home can also do short stints on cruise ships with their salaries paid along with all the other amenities. Then they go back home to Denver and bank the money that they didn't need to spend while on a cruise because someone else paid for their food and shelter.

This is just one example of information you cannot get from outside the profession. There are tons of things like this but you have to be willing to put yourself out there where things are happening.

You have to be daring. I got my first writing/editing job in the middle of a recession in Denver by going to the place I wanted to work and saying, "I'm a hard worker and a great writer. Let me work for you for three months. If you like me, hire me. If you don't, you're out nothing." They hired me full-time after only a month of free work.

You need to be flexible, daring, savvy, and hard-working to make your stash. You need to be frugal to allow your stash to grow into significant cash. This doesn't drop into your lap without you making yourself into someone who can demand a high income or without engaging in some form of geographical arbitrage.

Great information, especially the part about you, you badass!

My sister's BFF is a big muckety-muck at a hospital. She says OT is the way to go. Good OT's can write their own ticket almost anywhere. Add this to Metta's information and give these fields another look.

[KittenJoe]

I've been thinking about how to respond to this question and have read the meandering discussion with interest. I guess it depends on what you call a head start. Being born into or moving to a developed country would seem to be the biggest factor. Having parents who cared for you is also a big help.

My parents would not pay for college and made too much money for me to qualify for aid other than loans, which I had zero interest in (get it?). I also had five stair step siblings right behind me. I got a job and went to work immediately after high school. I worked full time the first semester and started Junior College in the spring. I worked as many as three jobs and earned a number of small merit-based scholarships to pay my way. After I got an AA, it was my plan to work for a year, declare myself emancipated from my parents so I could apply for need based scholarships, but the universe laughed at my plans.

Just a few months into my new "career" job (Starting salary in 1978: $13k and a company car. Woot!), I was diagnosed with cancer.  The company was so good to me while I was going through treatment that I decided I was going to stay for five years as a way of thanking them for their generosity. At the five year point, I decided I wanted other things on my bucket list more than going back to school. I also knew I could never go without health insurance. I decided I wanted to buy a house more than I wanted to go back to college. I never did get a four-year degree, but I did get my house, and many more since then.

I stretched my nose over the $100k salary finish line exactly once in my career. I was self-employed at the time and that was before taxes or expenses, so I wasn't exactly a high earner, especially compared to a lot of folks around here.

What I was was determined. I was determined to enjoy life as I was living it, because the future was not guaranteed. I was also determined to save like mad to meet my goals and retire early. The term FIRE hadn't entered the mainstream lexicon, but my Dad was a gub'ment employee who retired at age 50 with 25 years of service. Except he kinda had to, because he was an Air Traffic Controller with a wife and six kids to support. It was 1981 and he was not about to cross a picket line, so he retired.  I knew if he could do it, I could too.

I consider myself privileged because I had two parents, who stayed married to each other, who loved me and my many siblings. I had an excellent primary education, with a few outstanding teachers. I was smart and good in school. I was also blessed with a long, lean frame and attractively arranged features. Yup, that's worth something, and that's as messed up as it sounds. Is it the kind of head start you're referring to? Dunno. But there are plenty of people who have been given far more and ended up with much, much less.

It doesn't matter where you start; it matters where you end. Where you begin is largely a result of genetic roulette. Where you end up is far less random.

I probably should have been more clear, MMM himself said that this blog was originally directed toward people who were already making $60,000 of income or more, and I think most of this stuff applies to them. I know it does apply to everyone, but I wanted to have a discussion on exactly how mustachiaism applies to people like me.

I really enjoyed reading your story, and it sounds like we have similar origins except I think you had a bit better of an education, I was homeschooled. I really respect your working for that company for 5 years, so many people just do not have that sense of honor. If more did, the world would be a far better place (like in Japan where the crime rate is really low and the stores don't even get looted during disasters so far as I know).

You're right about people who start off with more and end up with less. It's scary, because no matter what some people do they're just going to fail. All our effort can do is increase chances, never guarantees. That's why I haven't done much to increase my chances, because I want to make sure that I increase them as much as possible and not waste time and energy on ANYTHING less, and that's hard to do when you don't know how to do that.

Thanks so much for taking the time to write out this thoughtful reply!

[ketchup]

In the life I had before the life I had before this life, I was a stoner.  Like all ex-something-or-others, I have advice for my former self that may not apply to you at all.  Before I share the advice, I will tee up my former self.  I had two close friends and we were super tight.  I was painfully shy with the ladies, and so seldom found myself moving past the friend/acquaintance zone.  I worked for low wages in jobs that didn't pay much. I seldom had a working vehicle and lived in a city that required a car to navigate anything.  Intoxicants of any sort were my magic carpet.

Here is the advice I have for my former self: Nothing you are ever going to accomplish is going to come out of the next  hit out of your bong. In fact, every hit on that pipe is putting a wedge between you and whatever dream you may want to dream about living differently.  Without a dream, you cannot make a goal.  Without a goal, you cannot initiate movement and you cannot persevere when the things you want are hard to achieve.  Unable to dream, set goals or have any confidence that you can persevere, you will remain in your crap, and dream little dreams that come from your pipe. 

tl;dr: smoking the marijuana may or may not be a problem for you, but it was for me, and if I had chosen to keep smoking, I would still be making a little more than minimum wage, and hoping some great opportunity would drop in my lap.   

Best wishes, aperture.

I'm as pro-marijuana as the next liberal millennial ruining America, but aperture does have a point.  I've witnessed it long-term in multiple friends, and whenever I've partaken myself, found that it can often mean that doing "nothing" is suddenly very appealing, and time passes faster, which is a great way to not get anything done.  Great power, great responsibility.

I probably should have been more clear, MMM himself said that this blog was originally directed toward people who were already making $60,000 of income or more, and I think most of this stuff applies to them. I know it does apply to everyone, but I wanted to have a discussion on exactly how mustachiaism applies to people like me.

He may have said that, but that doesn't mean nobody else can get anything out of it.  I was making $12.50 an hour part-time when I first found MMM, and it helped me get to where I am now, five years later (has it really been that long??).  It's the mindset more than the mechanics.  Once your head is in the right place, you figure the nuance out as you go.

[Physicsteacher]

I'd urge you to pick a direction and start working toward it. Even if it doesn't end up being a perfect fit that you want to purse for the rest of your life, the habits of mind you'll develop in striving to attain your goal will serve you well in your next venture. If you want to start a blog, start a blog. If you are interested in coding, try some free tutorials. If you are interested in physical or occupational therapy, check out the requirements for admission to programs near you and start studying for CLEP tests to knock some of the basics out.

One of my former students is pursuing an occupational therapy assistant degree. The program she is in requires one year of prerequisite college classes followed by a year and a half of occupational therapy classes and internships. I'm told it is an intense program, but it definitely does not take six years. There's a good chance that later on she'll pursue further education to become an occupational therapist instead of an assistant, but even if she doesn't she'll still earn a decent living.

There are plenty of options in the construction trades besides turd herder. When my DH first became an apprentice sparky (electrician), he was hardly a physically prepossessing specimen at over six feet tall and one hundred twenty pounds.

[Metta]

Great information, especially the part about you, you badass!

My sister's BFF is a big muckety-muck at a hospital. She says OT is the way to go. Good OT's can write their own ticket almost anywhere. Add this to Metta's information and give these fields another look.

<Blush> Thank you! One of the great advantages of being from Denver (at least when I was starting my career) is that it is such a competitive market that you learn to hustle, you learn to smile at people when you don't want to, you learn to do a bit extra to make it clear that you are better than the the competition, you learn to say 'Yes, I can do that!' even when you aren't sure you can (and then work like hell to make it work), you learn to put yourself out there and take risks.

The entire culture is one of self-reliance and contempt for the weak who cannot hack it. ("What kind of weenie are you? Of course I ride my bike in a blizzard.") Think Mr. Money Mustache himself. Despite being from Canada, he perfectly exemplifies Colorado values. I am not surprised in the least that he found it a great place to live. This is a set of skills most people in less competitive markets don't have to learn to survive so many don't. It gives Coloradans a tremendous competitive advantage in the marketplace, which I learned when I left Colorado. Reading this thread, I wonder whether legal cannabis has damaged that culture now.

[Laura33]

All our effort can do is increase chances, never guarantees. That's why I haven't done much to increase my chances, because I want to make sure that I increase them as much as possible and not waste time and energy on ANYTHING less

And to channel Dr. Phil, how's that working for you?  You're out of HS, what, 7-8 years now?  That's longer than many of the paths folks here have suggested -- working your way through college, or training as a PTA/OT, or getting certified as a programmer, etc.  And while you continue to look for a sure thing, the clock continues to tick.

The only "guarantee" in life is that if you don't try, you won't succeed.  A/k/a, if you do what you've always done, you get what you've always gotten.  You know better now, so go do better.