Author Topic: Calling all developers. Need advice!  (Read 1056 times)

StubbleinOhio

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Calling all developers. Need advice!
« on: March 16, 2020, 11:24:40 AM »
So here's the situation. I'm an external head hunter and have been for 12 years. This will make the third time in my career that my business will go in the tank for an extended period of time. I build up a big nest egg and then eat through it when the economy dips. I have to sell all day. I'm on calls after my kids go to bed. This isn't what I want for my family.

I have been recruiting for IT Auditors and IT Security folks. I know what a career path there looks like. Typically I can take someone with 4-5 years of experience and get them a six figure job. In my spare time, I'm building servers, coding websites, fixing broken tech for neighbors, upgrading networks for my house and friends. I think it's time I explore this side of my interests.

I know from a lot of my recruiting contacts that Developers are in incredibly high demand. I had a CS minor in college so code doesn't scare me.

If I wanted to set myself off on a rocket ship of a second career, now is the time to do it. Companies won't be hiring so my recruiting job will be dead and I could knock out something like a CompTIA certificate or the Google developer certificate in the next few months.

For those that have been doing IT/Developer roles for a while, am I oversimplifying things? Is there a path you'd take knowing what you know? What jobs would you suggest I target?

I'm fully aware that this would be a career do-over so I'd be starting entry level. I feel this would be a much better way to provide for my family and set aside the type of money consistently, like we want to.

Any help or guidance is appreciated! Thank you!

ctuser1

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2020, 11:52:39 AM »
Developers are in such a high demand that you *will* get hired if you show the right attitude.

DW was a SAHM for 6+ years with a lib arts degree, then she spent 3 years doing an MS-CS and she landed a tech job right off that. She is working as a code monkey now, just like I am.

If I was interviewing someone, I would look for competence in whatever your resume tells me you have done. I don't expect anyone to know everything about everything. But I *do* expect them to have deep, hands on knowledge on things their resume tells me they have done.

It is pretty easy to decipher who has actually done what their resume says, and who is faking it. But, scarcity of developers is so high that I've recommended for hiring some people even when I could see that they were faking parts of their resume. Maybe they were just part of the project while the main body was done by someone else - who knows?

In our group, the technology used is so incredibly specialized that we can not hire anyone with prior knowledge. I know many jobs (some paying well into 200 and 300k's) that are hired purely based on general and sometimes quantitative competence - and not specific technical skill-sets.

Net net - do projects, post on opensource places, and make sure you know ins and out of them when you put them on your resume such that you can impress anyone you are talking to about them.

Oh, and don't sweat it when you find out in a technical interview that you know nothing about 90% of the things that the interviewer is asking. That is very typical. I don't like people who hire people based on specific knowledge - that will be obsolete soon anyway, I much rather prefer aptitude.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 11:55:19 AM by ctuser1 »

StubbleinOhio

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2020, 12:20:09 PM »
That's amazing to hear @ctuser1 ! Thank you for sharing.

If I wanted to take a few weeks to learn... something. A coding language, a certification, a base level understanding course, what would you suggest I look into learning? Javascript?

Next, If I want to put that knowledge to use and build something I can set in github or on a site to use as a resume project, what would you suggest building?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 12:33:08 PM by StubbleinOhio »

bacchi

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2020, 12:28:57 PM »
Next, If I want to put that knowledge to use and build something I can set in github or on a site to use as a resume project, what would you suggest building?

I'd suggest instead that you find an interesting github project and help it. Fix a bug and do a pull request. Do it again and again. Then work on a feature.

MilesTeg

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2020, 12:37:12 PM »
So here's the situation. I'm an external head hunter and have been for 12 years. This will make the third time in my career that my business will go in the tank for an extended period of time. I build up a big nest egg and then eat through it when the economy dips. I have to sell all day. I'm on calls after my kids go to bed. This isn't what I want for my family.

I have been recruiting for IT Auditors and IT Security folks. I know what a career path there looks like. Typically I can take someone with 4-5 years of experience and get them a six figure job. In my spare time, I'm building servers, coding websites, fixing broken tech for neighbors, upgrading networks for my house and friends. I think it's time I explore this side of my interests.

I know from a lot of my recruiting contacts that Developers are in incredibly high demand. I had a CS minor in college so code doesn't scare me.

If I wanted to set myself off on a rocket ship of a second career, now is the time to do it. Companies won't be hiring so my recruiting job will be dead and I could knock out something like a CompTIA certificate or the Google developer certificate in the next few months.

For those that have been doing IT/Developer roles for a while, am I oversimplifying things? Is there a path you'd take knowing what you know? What jobs would you suggest I target?

I'm fully aware that this would be a career do-over so I'd be starting entry level. I feel this would be a much better way to provide for my family and set aside the type of money consistently, like we want to.

Any help or guidance is appreciated! Thank you!

Just like any other professional job, there aren't short cuts to a good career in programming. "Boot camps" and similar "get a job quick!" schemes are at best a foot in the door, and only while the job market for programmers remains a "employees" market (which may have just ended in the last couple of weeks).

My advice: find an entry level job with a company willing to let you learn on the job with real opportunities for advancement. Don't be seduced by crazy companies offering you big money despite no experience. You're just setting yourself up for failure as you'll be the first in the unemployment line the moment there is any financial need for workforce management.

ctuser1

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2020, 12:43:46 PM »
That's amazing to hear @ctuser1 ! Thank you for sharing.

If I wanted to take a few weeks to learn... something. A coding language, a certification, a base level understanding course, what would you suggest I look into learning.

Next, If I want to put that knowledge to use and build something I can set in github or on a site to use as a resume project, what would you suggest building?

I second bachhi's suggestion.

I am not a big fan of "academic" learning in coding. You don't learn to code by mugging through the features of a language.

Rather, find a real world problem (loads of open source projects need developers/qa/everything) and start contributing. If you have a new idea of your own, then start building from scratch on that - but building a project from scratch is typically a higher level of skill than contributing to something existing. So I'd probably start from contributing to something existing.

Someone who knows the features they *have* used in a project, and knows them well, is more valuable than someone who has academically learned about all language features but used none outside an academic setting. Unfortunately, a lot of boilerplate interviews rely on language feature questions - but even there you will find it will be much faster for you to read up and understand language features *after* you have a basis of building or contributing to actual projects.

So my suggestion:
1. First, find something real world and learn how to problem solve, code etc
2. Next, Worry about interview readiness etc. as a secondary concern.

Note/Disclaimer:
I did *not* take this route myself. I focused on academic stuff. I believe that was a mistake. Even my wife did not take this route. I warned her to focus on hands on, more than "textbooks" - but she of course ignored me.

I believe that was a mistake and I would focus on real world problems much more heavily if I was to redo things. I believe I paid a big price initially in my career, as did DW. Don't be as dumb as I/DW was and learn from our experience - so that you don't have to learn it the hard way.

MilesTeg

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2020, 01:11:53 PM »
That's amazing to hear @ctuser1 ! Thank you for sharing.

If I wanted to take a few weeks to learn... something. A coding language, a certification, a base level understanding course, what would you suggest I look into learning.

Next, If I want to put that knowledge to use and build something I can set in github or on a site to use as a resume project, what would you suggest building?

I second bachhi's suggestion.

I am not a big fan of "academic" learning in coding. You don't learn to code by mugging through the features of a language.

Rather, find a real world problem (loads of open source projects need developers/qa/everything) and start contributing. If you have a new idea of your own, then start building from scratch on that - but building a project from scratch is typically a higher level of skill than contributing to something existing. So I'd probably start from contributing to something existing.

Someone who knows the features they *have* used in a project, and knows them well, is more valuable than someone who has academically learned about all language features but used none outside an academic setting. Unfortunately, a lot of boilerplate interviews rely on language feature questions - but even there you will find it will be much faster for you to read up and understand language features *after* you have a basis of building or contributing to actual projects.

So my suggestion:
1. First, find something real world and learn how to problem solve, code etc
2. Next, Worry about interview readiness etc. as a secondary concern.

Note/Disclaimer:
I did *not* take this route myself. I focused on academic stuff. I believe that was a mistake. Even my wife did not take this route. I warned her to focus on hands on, more than "textbooks" - but she of course ignored me.

I believe that was a mistake and I would focus on real world problems much more heavily if I was to redo things. I believe I paid a big price initially in my career, as did DW. Don't be as dumb as I/DW was and learn from our experience - so that you don't have to learn it the hard way.

I don't think academic study is a mistake at all. Only academic study in isolation. Nothing is more disheartening than when I have to explain fundamental CS101 concepts to a "senior" developer.

ctuser1

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2020, 01:39:09 PM »
I don't think academic study is a mistake at all. Only academic study in isolation. Nothing is more disheartening than when I have to explain fundamental CS101 concepts to a "senior" developer.

I agree with you, but in a slightly different context than the OP paints in his initial post.

When I say "academic study", I did not mean learning about complexity theory, information entropy and such. OP is not likely to be proficient in those things, ever, in his career - unless he has a Math/Physics degree that he has not posted about or has aptitude beyond most research scholars in those areas.

In his context (based on what he has posted), example of "academic study" = superficial learning of why Javascript is considered untyped, *without* learning about the Curry-Howard Correspondence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspondence) from Programming Language Theory.

I liken this to the doctor/nurse situation. 90% of typical illnesses can be treated by nurses. However, they will likely lack the extensive in-depth theoretical background knowledge to take trade-off decisions from the first principles. Worse still, without the extensive background knowledge, you are also likely to not be able to detect which problems are "complex" problems beyond your skillset. Hence we have a healthcare system with such a heavy reliance on doctors.

In coding/engineering - you don't have that heavy a price to be paid for not having a "doctor" category programmer. 90% of the coders are in the "nurse" category - and that is perfectly fine. Typically, every large team needs one or two "doctor" category coder.

OP can easily shoot for the "nurse" category coder jobs. They are plentiful.

SEdude

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2020, 02:06:07 PM »
Just about every company is hiring developers these days, and even in a recession I don't see that changing (though, in a recession I imagine competition for jobs will get tougher, but that's to be expected in every field). That is to say, if you're into the idea of being a developer then I say good stuff, go for it!

My opinions, not based on any data:
- Web development seems to be growing the fastest. I would choose to focus learning on that area (unless you're really into phone apps, in which case mobile development is also good).

- Certifications are generally not expected or useful for this area of development.

- Start with tech that is popular/has a strong community/will be around for a long time. Examples: python, javascript, java (and their associated frameworks/libraries for web development, like django, flask, nodejs, react, spring, etc). Another take on this would be to look at job openings and find ones that you want, then google for intro guides to any languages / tech buzzwords you've never seen before. Do this enough and you'll eventually know what skills are important and how to learn them.

- Scratch your own itch. I've found the best way to learn is to make something that you actually want to use. Maybe it's a website that pulls data about your favorite sports teams. Maybe a script that automates your job search by checking multiple job sites at once for keywords. Maybe it's *anything at all that you can think up*, the important part is that you're interested in it and want to figure out how to make it happen.

- Have a portfolio. This is heavily related to the previous point. Even if your portfolio is just a single project that you've been hacking up, that's incredibly valuable. When I evaluate junior engineers for hiring this is the strongest signal I look for. My suggestion: make an account on github.com (and learn to use git well enough to put some code on there, if you don't already use it) and put any code you write while learning on there (even if it's just some basic html and css). If you build any projects, definitely put them on there. It's now your portfolio!

- If you feel overwhelmed while learning, always start with the simplest possible thing and slowly grow from there. There is a reason why we start with 'Hello World' programs. Make things ultra simple, get them working, then add a bit of something you're learning / something complex, then a bit more, etc. In this way, development is a bit like learning a musical instrument, or learning new math concepts.

Hope this helps

StubbleinOhio

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2020, 02:17:53 PM »
You all are amazing. This is incredibly valuable. Thank you Thank you thank you.

In the way of crash courses, I've had experience hacking up Java, HTML, CSS and modifying wordpress templates enough to feel like going in depth with web development wouldn't be a stretch for me. Would something like https://www.freecodecamp.org/ be a good route to take?

I've got a sample project in mind for a company my wife runs. I'd would build something that could build a sample packing list for any destination based on a location and the average weather during that time. I could pull the weather data from somewhere and then make the site spit out what types of clothes you should likely need to pack for your trip. That should be a good first test.

Any other crash courses someone would recommend?

Also had a developer brother-in-law of mine suggest Lambda School. Anyone have any positive or negative feelings on that?

SEdude

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2020, 03:25:15 PM »
You all are amazing. This is incredibly valuable. Thank you Thank you thank you.

In the way of crash courses, I've had experience hacking up Java, HTML, CSS and modifying wordpress templates enough to feel like going in depth with web development wouldn't be a stretch for me. Would something like https://www.freecodecamp.org/ be a good route to take?

I've got a sample project in mind for a company my wife runs. I'd would build something that could build a sample packing list for any destination based on a location and the average weather during that time. I could pull the weather data from somewhere and then make the site spit out what types of clothes you should likely need to pack for your trip. That should be a good first test.

Any other crash courses someone would recommend?

Also had a developer brother-in-law of mine suggest Lambda School. Anyone have any positive or negative feelings on that?

I haven't used these materials myself, but glancing at https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn there seems to be lots of good links there. Everything from html 101 to server-side python and javascript. I've also seen recommendations for udemy courses like https://www.udemy.com/course/the-web-developer-bootcamp/

In regards to bootcamps, I know Lambda School in particular has had lots of bad press recently. I would say whether to do one or not, among other things, should depend on your preferred style of learning. Some people learn better with a curriculum and a teacher and TAs (eg bootcamp), and others can self-teach or can learn with lower structure alternatives, like MOOCs. Not saying one way or the other is better, each person is different, but all the material taught at bootcamps is available online if you want to try taking the self-teach / tutorials / MOOCs path first.

Edit: for examples of bad press on Lambda, see https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/11/21131848/lambda-school-coding-bootcamp-isa-tuition-cost-free
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 03:27:17 PM by SEdude »

SEdude

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2020, 03:30:11 PM »
You all are amazing. This is incredibly valuable. Thank you Thank you thank you.

In the way of crash courses, I've had experience hacking up Java, HTML, CSS and modifying wordpress templates enough to feel like going in depth with web development wouldn't be a stretch for me. Would something like https://www.freecodecamp.org/ be a good route to take?

I've got a sample project in mind for a company my wife runs. I'd would build something that could build a sample packing list for any destination based on a location and the average weather during that time. I could pull the weather data from somewhere and then make the site spit out what types of clothes you should likely need to pack for your trip. That should be a good first test.

Any other crash courses someone would recommend?

Also had a developer brother-in-law of mine suggest Lambda School. Anyone have any positive or negative feelings on that?

Oh! And your idea for a sample project to work on sounds great!

StubbleinOhio

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2020, 06:24:10 AM »
So I analyzed a lot of job descriptions around here in Cleveland. Here's what I came up with as highlights (extensive):

Knowledge in web programming languages and technologies, including HTML5, Javascript, Angular, Bootstrap, REST, python-flask, sqlalchemy.
Knowledge of python and relevant packages including, scikit-image, scikit-learn, numpy, scipy, matplotlib. Experience with openslide a strong plus.
Experience with git, linux, bash, and high-performance computing .

Agile oriented team utilizing Scrum and Kanban workflows to build and support applications in primarily Visual Studio and .NET supported environments.

- C#, Java, Ruby.

 DBMS technologies (MySQL, MongoDB, or SQLServer)

 HTML, CSS, JavaScript.
2+ years experience building web services (SOAP, REST).
2+ years experience building API's and usage of push notifications.

Experience using advanced JavaScript libraries and frameworks such as (AngularJS, KnockoutJS, BackboneJS, ReactJS, DurandalJS).
Experience and knowledge of Azure PaaS services like Web Apps, App Service, API apps, Logic Apps, Azure Functions.

Ruby-on-rails
Node.js
Ember.js
A custom JavaScript framework
Scala

MongoDB
Azure Table Storage
Elasticsearch
Redis
Kafka

Our code runs in Microsoft Azure and Amazon AWS, as well as in our own data center.

Centralized logging with Elasticsearch and Kibana
Messaging with RabbitMQ
Application monitoring with New Relic

C#
NET MVC / Web API
SQL Server

C#, JavaScript, JSON, XML, ASP.NET MVC, etc.).

Knowledge of OOP principles in PHP 5.x and greater.
Solid skills in HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript and cross-browser implementations.
Expert knowledge of standard content management system best practices for external module testing and integration.
Understanding of command line (SSH, Drush, etc.).
Knowledge of deployment processes (DeployHQ, Jenkins, Beanstalk, etc.).

Microsoft technology stack (Asp.Net with Web Forms & MVC, Asp.Net Core, Azure, SQL Server, etc.).

Solid understanding of object orientated programming (OOP).
Solid understanding of JavaScript programming and familiarity with popular JavaScript Frameworks.
Solid understanding of REST API creation and usage.
Expert knowledge of SQL Server (tables, views, stored procedures, scheduled processes, etc.)
Experienced with source control (Git, TFS).
Self-motivated with the ability to work independently & efficiently.
Excellent problem solving & communication skills.
Passion for learning new technologies & methods with a desire to write great code.
Experience migrating Asp.Net Web Forms to Asp.Net Core is a plus.
Experience with using 3rd party components (such as Telerik/Progress Ajax controls or Kendo UI) is a plus.
Experience with Azure DevOps is a plus.

C#, Angular (v2+), web development, CSS3, HTML5, Web API, Scrum, Agile. Azure DevOps, Azure App Service, and SpecFlow highly desired


Given all that, it looks like if I'm able to build an HTML project that uses Java/Javascript, I should have what most employers would want to see. Am I missing anything?

ender

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2020, 06:33:36 AM »
OP can easily shoot for the "nurse" category coder jobs. They are plentiful.

+1

A lot of less "glamorous" companies hire tons of software developers.

Significant amounts of the material you'll find online focuses on getting into the Google/Amazon/Facebooks of the world, not a job with a bank or grocery store or any one of a huge number of industries that also hire engineers.

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2020, 11:10:23 AM »
So I analyzed a lot of job descriptions around here in Cleveland. Here's what I came up with as highlights (extensive):

{every programming language ever}

Given all that, it looks like if I'm able to build an HTML project that uses Java/Javascript, I should have what most employers would want to see. Am I missing anything?
If you can show that you have object-oriented experience, know SQL, know Git, and can do literally anything front-end you open yourself up to 50% of the programming jobs out there. I'd suggest getting one or two things down pretty well and start applying, ideally by the 2nd or 3rd month. You don't need to be an expert and I don't expect anyone to be an expert in my particular my tech stack anyway.

Building on the doctor vs. nurse, I'd add that there are different levels of nursing too. You don't need to be in web development / CS-heavy position to start your coding career. An analyst job might be the right stepping stone if it is easier to acquire.

MilesTeg

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2020, 11:50:04 AM »
So I analyzed a lot of job descriptions around here in Cleveland. Here's what I came up with as highlights (extensive):

Knowledge in web programming languages and technologies, including HTML5, Javascript, Angular, Bootstrap, REST, python-flask, sqlalchemy.
Knowledge of python and relevant packages including, scikit-image, scikit-learn, numpy, scipy, matplotlib. Experience with openslide a strong plus.
Experience with git, linux, bash, and high-performance computing .

Agile oriented team utilizing Scrum and Kanban workflows to build and support applications in primarily Visual Studio and .NET supported environments.

- C#, Java, Ruby.

 DBMS technologies (MySQL, MongoDB, or SQLServer)

 HTML, CSS, JavaScript.
2+ years experience building web services (SOAP, REST).
2+ years experience building API's and usage of push notifications.

Experience using advanced JavaScript libraries and frameworks such as (AngularJS, KnockoutJS, BackboneJS, ReactJS, DurandalJS).
Experience and knowledge of Azure PaaS services like Web Apps, App Service, API apps, Logic Apps, Azure Functions.

Ruby-on-rails
Node.js
Ember.js
A custom JavaScript framework
Scala

MongoDB
Azure Table Storage
Elasticsearch
Redis
Kafka

Our code runs in Microsoft Azure and Amazon AWS, as well as in our own data center.

Centralized logging with Elasticsearch and Kibana
Messaging with RabbitMQ
Application monitoring with New Relic

C#
NET MVC / Web API
SQL Server

C#, JavaScript, JSON, XML, ASP.NET MVC, etc.).

Knowledge of OOP principles in PHP 5.x and greater.
Solid skills in HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript and cross-browser implementations.
Expert knowledge of standard content management system best practices for external module testing and integration.
Understanding of command line (SSH, Drush, etc.).
Knowledge of deployment processes (DeployHQ, Jenkins, Beanstalk, etc.).

Microsoft technology stack (Asp.Net with Web Forms & MVC, Asp.Net Core, Azure, SQL Server, etc.).

Solid understanding of object orientated programming (OOP).
Solid understanding of JavaScript programming and familiarity with popular JavaScript Frameworks.
Solid understanding of REST API creation and usage.
Expert knowledge of SQL Server (tables, views, stored procedures, scheduled processes, etc.)
Experienced with source control (Git, TFS).
Self-motivated with the ability to work independently & efficiently.
Excellent problem solving & communication skills.
Passion for learning new technologies & methods with a desire to write great code.
Experience migrating Asp.Net Web Forms to Asp.Net Core is a plus.
Experience with using 3rd party components (such as Telerik/Progress Ajax controls or Kendo UI) is a plus.
Experience with Azure DevOps is a plus.

C#, Angular (v2+), web development, CSS3, HTML5, Web API, Scrum, Agile. Azure DevOps, Azure App Service, and SpecFlow highly desired


Given all that, it looks like if I'm able to build an HTML project that uses Java/Javascript, I should have what most employers would want to see. Am I missing anything?

LOL I grok this is not one job listing, but I have seen such things listed under "mid level developer wanted!".

Here's what you should do: focus on one stack and get good at it. Leverage what you learn from that stack into other technologies.

My suggestion, if you goal is to work in general business rather than a specialized domain, would be:

Core Backend/Middlewear:
C#/.NET With this stack you'll have an opportunity to learn good software engineering concepts.

I can't at this time recommend Java, despite that being a common platform for development. Oracle (aka The Beast) owns Java now and is doing every possible thing it can to destroy it. Ironically, 15 years ago my advice would have been the inverse but for the same reasons, hah.

Front End
Angular (NOT AngularJS), Ember or maybe Vue (flip a coin)

Angular will provide you with the best opportunities to learn good software engineering concepts. Avoid React (facebook) aka "separation of concerns, what's that? Yuck-Yuck"

Database

MS SQL Server or PostgreSQL for a relational store. Postgres is entirely free, and is an enterprise class DB that will allow you to pivot to any other relational store with low friction.

Avoid Oracle like the plague. You never, ever want to be part of a group that uses Oracle in any capacity.

Concepts

RESTful services. RESTful services are the backbone of sane interaction between a front end and a back end.

Dependency Injection/Inversion of Control frameworks (e.g. Spring in the Java world) - an extremely popular methodology for wiring together large software projects.

Object Relational Mapping (e.g. Hibernate/JPA in the Java world, NHiberate in .NET) - a very common methodology for interacting with relational databases - map code dataobjects to database tables "automagically" (but at a cost). You need at least a working understanding of SQL and how relational databases function even if you use such a framework.

StubbleinOhio

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2020, 12:21:39 PM »
Yep. You got it @MilesTeg . That was from about 5 different job descriptions under their "desired qualifications" list for an entry level role.

I'll focus on a solid base of front end/backend and see where it takes me.

OFF TO THE INTERNETS!!

Thank you again everyone. If anyone has any developer contacts at Progressive...wink...

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2020, 01:24:33 PM »
Consider also automating your job. Yes, your current recruiting job. Get a simple scripting language and start trying to automate your repetitive tasks. I'm sure you have them.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2020, 11:00:15 AM »
What would it take to turn that CS minor into a bachelor's degree?

StubbleinOhio

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2020, 02:49:55 PM »
What would it take to turn that CS minor into a bachelor's degree?

Not really sure to be honest. I would think most of the credits from 2005 wouldn't apply by now.

BicycleB

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Re: Calling all developers. Need advice!
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2020, 04:01:07 PM »
PTF. Good luck, @StubbleinOhio!