Author Topic: Buy International Real Estate vs Invest in Total Market Index Fund  (Read 969 times)

DonCicio

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Hello!

I have about $5000 USD coming soon and I've been thinking about what to do with it and would like to know your opinion as well!

Option 1) Put everything in VTSAX and take advantage of the current low price.

Option 2) Use it as a down payment on international rental property in Brazil. Some details on this option:
         - $1 USD is about $4.75 Brazilian Real right now.
         - Will spend around $250,000 Brazilian Reais on the property, which is about $50,000 USD.
         - Spouse has another $40,000 Brazilian Reais that we could drop into this (gotta talk to spouse about it still haha).
         - This will be a rental property so rent will be used to pay off property, and I could also inject some USD along the way to pay it off very fast (aiming for 5 years).

Let me know what option you think is best or if you have other questions!

Thanks!





HPstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2863
  • Age: 37
Re: Buy International Real Estate vs Invest in Total Market Index Fund
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2022, 03:51:34 PM »
Sounds way too complicated owning and renting a house in another country.   VTSAX all the way

Freedomin5

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6545
    • FIRE Countdown
Re: Buy International Real Estate vs Invest in Total Market Index Fund
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2022, 06:45:17 PM »
Sounds way too complicated owning and renting a house in another country.   VTSAX all the way

+1  Take it from someone who considered owning international property, then realized that it comes with its own set of rules and laws and regulations that make little sense if you're not actually a local, compounded by the fact that owning property as a foreigner is much more complex in that country, and also in your home country when you're trying to declare income from that property and eventually when you're trying to declare capital gains/losses from selling the property.

The only reason why I might consider owning property in another country is if you have savvy business-minded family members who live in that country and also own multiple rental properties in that country who are experienced in navigating the entire process because they've done it themselves. And they're also willing to help you manage the property and/or troubleshoot if anything goes wrong.

Oh, and if you have a good tax accountant who is familiar with international tax treaties and laws.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 06:48:02 PM by Freedomin5 »

yachi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
Re: Buy International Real Estate vs Invest in Total Market Index Fund
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2022, 10:23:15 PM »
It sounds from your other thread that you're a recent immigrant from Brazil, so at least you're familiar with the country and speak the language.  Real estate and stock buying (especially index buying like you're considering) can be very different.  Real estate tends to be very hands-on, and DIY is very rewarded.  So you might be your own handyman - fixing doorknobs, window screens, and anything else you're comfortable fixing.  You might collect your own rent, check on the units, and be the tenant's point of contact.  You might also be your own project manager if you're fixing up a place.  Collecting bids for plumbing, electrical, and carpentry work, and scheduling all of them around each other.  As a distant landlord, you won't be in a position to DIY many, if any of these tasks.  Instead, you'll have to hire trusted people to do all of this in your place.  And you'll have to trust what they relay back to you.

In order to compare what you might make in real estate vs. what you might make with VTSAX you'll need to consider currency effects.  The dollar is a strong currency that tends to inflate less than South American currencies.  In 2006 a US dollar bought 2.15 Brazilian Reals, and as you stated is 4.75 Reals today.  That means you're rent checks would have brought you 2.2x less US dollars today than in 2006.  You'll be able to raise rent from year to year, and you should do that.  But the amount you can raise rent will be guided more by the local Brazilian economy than the US to Real conversion rate.  This is to say, you'll likely be able to adjust rent by the local inflation rate to keep up with what other landlords are charging, but that increase could very well far short of the rate of change in the currencies.

In the US there are lots of benefits to real estate investing:
Access to mortgages - 30 year, fixed rate mortgages beat any type of borrowing you can do for the stock market.
Appreciation - houses have tended to gain value over the years
Tax treatment - You depreciate the value of the house (minus the land) over 27.5 years.  This becomes a non-cash expense on your taxes, and can reduce your income taxes on non-rental income too.
Cash Flow - If you've chosen a good property, it should bring in rent above the mortgage, repairs, and other expenses.  That's yours to keep and because of the above depreciation, usually without tax.

How does foreign real estate compare?  I don't know.  My taxes were complicated enough with a rental property, W2 income and some side income.  I wouldn't want to add foreign real estate investments to it also.  Not just for the US side, but for the Brazilian side too.

Can we assume you've already set aside a nice emergency fund?  I can imagine if your residency situation is not nailed down, you could have a sudden need for international tickets and a need to sell things you own in the US fairly quickly.

expatartist

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2270
  • Location: Hong Kong/Paris
Re: Buy International Real Estate vs Invest in Total Market Index Fund
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2022, 11:14:47 PM »
As someone who's owned real estate overseas for some years (first as holiday rental, later for visa purposes), I would say as someone from that country you'd have advantages over any of us here. And as an emigrant for many years, I get there can be an important element of owning something in our country of origin (if you don't already). Tap into your network for the handyman and management aspects and there will be some headaches sorted. It will complicate US taxes but many US residents own real estate overseas; it's not rocket science.

US ETFs will be much less hassle. But real estate can be rewarding - and headache inducing - in other ways.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!