Author Topic: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors  (Read 877 times)

YttriumNitrate

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Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« on: November 28, 2022, 09:44:03 AM »
Does anyone have experience with brush cutters and walk behind tractors?

I’m in the process of acquiring 11 acres of land through a tax-lien foreclosure that is going to be turned into a hobby orchard. The land is undeveloped with a few large trees but mainly just brush. The property is zoned commercial as it’s right next to a Meijer (like a Target for those not in the Midwest) so I need sure it looks like it’s being used for agriculture as soon as possible to qualify for a $6,000/yr property tax savings.

The three options I’ve identified for getting the property cleared are buying a new Grillo walk-behind tractor and brush cutter for about $4,000 [link], buying a 40+ year old Gravely for $500-750 [link], or renting a brush cutter for about week $330 [link]. The Gravely is tempting, but it seems like it could be a constant struggle to keep the thing running. Renting would be okay in the short term, but eventually I’ll want to get some sort of tractor so in the long term it might be better to just bite the bullet and buy now.

Anyone have experience and advice regarding this sort of equipment?

uniwelder

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2022, 10:06:00 AM »
Is the area fenced or do you plan to fence it? How about finding someone that raises goats or sheep to clear out the brush?  I used to keep some lambs each year to maintain my grass, and they do enjoy shrubbery as well, though not as aggressively as goats.

A large enough herd could feed on it from now until spring and then moved off to their usual plot.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2022, 10:20:55 AM »
Is the area fenced or do you plan to fence it? How about finding someone that raises goats or sheep to clear out the brush?
In the right setting, goats would be fantastic for clearing out the area, but so far I don't have any plans to fence in the area. Also, since I won't be living on site, and the area is close to a commercial area, I'd be concerned leavings the goats out there even if there was a fence.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2022, 11:26:25 AM »
What kind of time are you prepared to invest in clearing this? 11 acres is huge for something that's under 4 ft wide. The walk behind tractor you linked says in the ad " The combination of a differential and larger wheels make this model more suited to mowing tasks than the G85, but this is still not a great choice for large mowing applications due to relatively slow working speeds (max. 2 MPH). If you are mowing several acres, a larger walk-behind tractor would be desired for a greater selection of working speeds (and also for steering brakes, which aid greatly in maneuverability, especially on slopes)."

For reference, my commercial ZTR with 6ft finish mower deck would mow about 3 acres per hour at about 7 mph (flat, fairly smooth lawn). The 26" wide rental that you linked is spec'd to handle .65 acres per hr by comparison, and that might be optimistic depending on how much brush, and how smooth/flat the lot may or may not be.

Clearing 11 acres of brush with a walk behind that's pretty narrow is going to take you multiple days. It might get a bit faster after the first time, but even regular maintenance mowing will take you a long time without large scale equipment. And good luck fitting it all in around weather conditions or real life stuff.

I think you're eventually going to want a real tractor for this property if you'll be doing any kind of frequent work or property maintenance. And it probably needs a 6ft wide belly mower or 3pt brush hog. You can probably find an old tractor with a brush hog on your local marketplace for about the same price as the walk behind tractor thing you linked.

If you have no interest in mowing this much property on a regular basis, you might be able to leave it alone and then find somebody to mow/bale it once or twice per season.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2022, 11:48:13 AM by Paper Chaser »

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2022, 11:42:19 AM »
Clearing 11 acres of brush with a walk behind that's pretty narrow is going to take you several days. It might get a bit faster after the first time, but even regular maintenance mowing will take you a long time without large scale equipment.
Indeed, there's a reason I was looking at a week long rentals.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2022, 11:58:32 AM »
Clearing 11 acres of brush with a walk behind that's pretty narrow is going to take you several days. It might get a bit faster after the first time, but even regular maintenance mowing will take you a long time without large scale equipment.
Indeed, there's a reason I was looking at a week long rentals.

Right. But this property will probably need to be regularly mowed, or cleared a couple of times per year after you do this initial clearing. It's reasonable to rent something once to get it started, but eventually you're going to need something bigger and faster than the options you've linked if you'll be doing this job with any frequency.

Rob_bob

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2022, 12:19:21 PM »
What kind of brush are you talking about, small tree type stuff, blackberries or just tall grass? What kind of equipment do you plan to get in the future, can you afford it now?

I wouldn't even think of any of the walk behind equipment for that many acres.  If it's pretty tough stuff I would find a local guy who does tractor work and hire him to clear the land.  If it will be grass and trees in the future I would probably get a big zero turn mower to keep the grass down.  Some orchards spray the grass and don't need to mow.

A real tractor may be what you really need.  I have a 33 HP Kubota and 4 ft. brush hog and it would be job to do that many acres if it's heavily overgrown.  I also have a grapple on the loader for ripping out blackberries and moving debris to burn piles, love the grapple  :)

techwiz

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2022, 12:29:58 PM »
Clearing 11 acres of brush with a walk behind that's pretty narrow is going to take you several days. It might get a bit faster after the first time, but even regular maintenance mowing will take you a long time without large scale equipment.
Indeed, there's a reason I was looking at a week long rentals.

+1 for renting equipment. It will make the job easier by letting you get something bigger than really needed and also give you an idea of what works for the size of land. 

uniwelder

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2022, 12:41:08 PM »
Is the area fenced or do you plan to fence it? How about finding someone that raises goats or sheep to clear out the brush?
In the right setting, goats would be fantastic for clearing out the area, but so far I don't have any plans to fence in the area. Also, since I won't be living on site, and the area is close to a commercial area, I'd be concerned leavings the goats out there even if there was a fence.

It would be good to come up with a real plan for the property.  You mention a hobby orchard, so it doesn't sound like you care at all about making a profit--- just getting an agricultural tax break, which is fine.  Do you know much about fruit trees?  Perhaps talk to other small farmers (farmers market, etc) that might be willing to lease the land from you for $1 a year and they'll make improvements to it, and perhaps do the initial clearing if they get a 10 year commitment from you. 

I think a fence would make sense.  You don't want anyone four wheeling through the property, using it as a dumping ground, stealing all your fruit, or cutting down all the trees for the fun of it.  Once the fruit trees are tall enough, sheep can help maintain the grounds so you don't have to mow that much. 

I'm sure @Sanitary Engineer has all kinds of ideas.  I think this would be her dream location.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2022, 01:14:15 PM »
Right. But this property will probably need to be regularly mowed, or cleared a couple of times per year after you do this initial clearing. It's reasonable to rent something once to get it started, but eventually you're going to need something bigger and faster than the options you've linked if you'll be doing this job with any frequency.
Good point about the ongoing maintenance. It seems like renting to clear the land (or better yet, hire someone with heavy equipment) and then buying a ride on mower/compact tractor may be the best option.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2022, 01:17:21 PM »
If it's pretty tough stuff I would find a local guy who does tractor work and hire him to clear the land.
Hiring out the initial clearing is a good idea. I'll have to check into roughly how much it will run relative to trying to do it myself.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2022, 01:30:09 PM »
Do you know much about fruit trees?  Perhaps talk to other small farmers (farmers market, etc) that might be willing to lease the land from you for $1 a year and they'll make improvements to it, and perhaps do the initial clearing if they get a 10 year commitment from you.
This will actually be the second time I've started a hobby orchard. The last one was much smaller, but big enough that I was selling at a farmers market. I ended up having to move for my real job hence the new spot.

Agriculture is not known for being particularly profitable, so I'm guessing that the long term profit of this venture will mainly be in the form of appreciation on commercial real estate.

uniwelder

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2022, 04:24:06 PM »
Do you know much about fruit trees?  Perhaps talk to other small farmers (farmers market, etc) that might be willing to lease the land from you for $1 a year and they'll make improvements to it, and perhaps do the initial clearing if they get a 10 year commitment from you.
This will actually be the second time I've started a hobby orchard. The last one was much smaller, but big enough that I was selling at a farmers market. I ended up having to move for my real job hence the new spot.

Agriculture is not known for being particularly profitable, so I'm guessing that the long term profit of this venture will mainly be in the form of appreciation on commercial real estate.

Not being profitable was kind of my point.  Unless you're really excited about creating a hobby orchard all by yourself, why not collaborate with others that will put their own effort into this?  You'll hopefully end up with a more productive piece of land and help give a leg up to somebody thats been wanting to start a small farming business but didn't have much opportunity due to lack of land.  Plus, you might not have to shell out any money for a mower.

My own anecdote regarding this---- Two friends of mine have been running a small farm growing organic veggies, poultry, pigs, apples, and a composting operation on about 10-15 acres of land for the past 12 years.  This land (about 80 acres total) was bought by a wealthy guy that wanted to prevent it from being developed, so he placed a conservation easement on it.  He then leased it out to my friends for (I think) $1,000 per year, while paying them for improvements they made to the property.  It now has 5 full time employees with a brewery/farm-to-table restaurant built on to it that employs another 6-8 people.  I help them out with equipment repairs, fabricating various tools, and helping with poultry slaughter/processing from time to time.

From what I understand, the biggest hurdle for small farmers to get into the business is acquiring/leasing land for a low enough price to gain a profit from their sales.  My friends would not be able to run their operation if it weren't for this particular Fairy Godfather fellow.

sonofsven

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2022, 08:17:39 AM »
I've used a DR walk behind brush cutter and hated it, too hard on my body. I would get a good tractor with enough hp to run your implements of choice (brushcutter, post hole digger?).
You'll want a front bucket for moving material. I don't think the compact range of tractors has enough oomph to lift much so again, don't get too small of a unit. Think: Buy once, cry once. A good tractor tends to hold its value as well.
Make sure there is a good service network available nearby. Of course, you'll need a building to store it as well, or a way to move it to and from the site.
I agree with others that in the short term hiring it out makes sense, talk to them about their equipment and advice if they seem knowledgeable.

GilesMM

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2022, 08:48:47 AM »
Are you sure you can get the ag exemption if it is zoned commercial?

As far as clearing it, I would just hire a guy with a tractor and brush hog and be done with it.  No point in you buying a bunch of equipment for a once a year cleanup job.  Modern orchards don't have to be scrubbed clean - many leave them natural.

How will you plant it?  At 500 trees per acre you are looking at planting 5000 trees.  Who will do that?  What will it cost? How many years before they are productive?  If you just want the ag exemption, would it be easier to just seed it with hay?

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2022, 09:47:23 AM »
Are you sure you can get the ag exemption if it is zoned commercial?
Yes I am. I have another smaller orchard that I started up in a different part of the state, and the assessor tried to assess it as residential. In the appeal process I learned way too much Indiana case law relating to qualifying for an ag assessment and what they look for.

As far as clearing it, I would just hire a guy with a tractor and brush hog and be done with it.  No point in you buying a bunch of equipment for a once a year cleanup job.  Modern orchards don't have to be scrubbed clean - many leave them natural.
Hiring someone to do the initial clearing is a good idea so long as the quotes I receive aren't astronomical.

How will you plant it?  At 500 trees per acre you are looking at planting 5000 trees.  Who will do that?  What will it cost? How many years before they are productive?  If you just want the ag exemption, would it be easier to just seed it with hay?
500 trees an acre would be quite dense and probably would require a trellis system for tall spindle trees. Even at 150/acre that's still a lot of trees to plant and will be done over the course of a few years. The first batch of 300 pawpaws will be going in this coming spring, and I'm guessing reasonable productivity will happen around 2030. Hay would be easier, but growing trees is the main goal. The ag exemption is just a benefit.

uniwelder

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2022, 08:35:23 AM »
...The first batch of 300 pawpaws will be going in this coming spring, and I'm guessing reasonable productivity will happen around 2030. Hay would be easier, but growing trees is the main goal. The ag exemption is just a benefit.

Yeah for pawpaws!  We planted some at our old house and are trying to get some transplanted ones to grow at our new house.  Even though deer aren't supposed to like them, they keep eating the buds and leaves.  I think our trees started producing after 4 years, but yes, 7 for abundance.  Is there enough market in your area to sell fruit from 300 pawpaws?  They're not grown commercially for a reason--- they're quite delicate once ripe.  Plus they need shade when first starting out.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Brush Cutters and Walk-behing Tractors
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2022, 09:28:07 AM »
Yeah for pawpaws!  We planted some at our old house and are trying to get some transplanted ones to grow at our new house.  Even though deer aren't supposed to like them, they keep eating the buds and leaves.  I think our trees started producing after 4 years, but yes, 7 for abundance.  Is there enough market in your area to sell fruit from 300 pawpaws?  They're not grown commercially for a reason--- they're quite delicate once ripe.  Plus they need shade when first starting out.
Although bucks will rub their antlers on anything, my experience has been that the deer eat pawpaw trees less than other things. I'm at the northern end of their native range in the suburbs of Chicago, so the trees take a while to grow and the trees I'll be planting are tiny (~1/4" diameter) and will be grafted in their second year which sets them back a bit. The really nice thing about pawpaws is how little ongoing maintenance they require after the first year or so. While apples are a non-stop schedule of spraying, pawpaws do just fine being left alone.

Being in suburban area has made finding inexpensive land a bit of a challenge, but the benefit is that marketing them should be easier than in a more rural location.

 

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