Author Topic: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money  (Read 21556 times)

pdxbator

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2015, 04:26:28 PM »
I'm way more financially well off than my partner of 20 years due to some inheritance. I haven't even mentioned exact numbers with him because it causes consternation. Until you a well established couple I would say just talk in round general goals and savings and what-not. When it comes to the nitty-gritty exact details of financial assets can cause issues.

AJ

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2015, 04:28:20 PM »
If they ever want money, loan, any of that- run before it becomes a pattern.

I think this is an overreaction. Borrowing from (and/or lending to) friends and family is a common mistake made in youth. It is also common, IME, for people who aren't good at finances to ask for a loan. I don't "run" from such people - they may be good friends in all other respects. There is no reason to "run" - just learn to say 'No' nicely. If they persist, you can just keep saying no. It can only become a "pattern" if you keep giving them money. Assuming it is in a bank (and not cash in your mattress) they can't take your money without your consent.

Also, I don't think you can call this ex-GF a "golddigger" based on the story shared here. She asked for a short-term loan from her boyfriend of a year. That may be a bad idea, but it hardly qualifies as golddigging.

Sounds like trust and values were much bigger issues here than money! And frankly, I think that when trust and values are aligned, the money issue(s) become straightforward to discuss and work through.

If your SO/friend is having a financial issue that relates to something you approve of (getting a better job-moving or "missed" paycheck(s) from diff schedules, addressing loan repayment, getting much needed medical care, etc) I think decent people who are in a position to do so offer a loan (or gift) before it's asked for. Existing trust means you believe they will stick to the agreed-upon terms, whatever those are. And when they do, trust is further built in the relationship. On some level, I think you have to take risks to build trust (they just might not be financial).

I'm not saying this is a first-date conversation. In fact, it's not really something to talk about on a date at all... but I think 1 year is a time frame where a relationship becomes "long-term" if it's not already, and if you don't feel comfortable disclosing your net worth to your SO, or they are living a lifestyle you can't be supportive of, that's a yellow flag to give the relationship careful consideration.

+1 to all of this

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2015, 05:43:25 PM »
Hey! I've been lurking and finally registered because I think I can add something to this discussion.

Felipe, it sounds like you know that what happened with the ex is best, in the long-term. But don't be scared about the future. I wouldn't go in depth on finances first date, but within a few dates you can discuss general money attitudes, and numbers soon after.

My partner asked me for concrete numbers within two months of meeting. Talking about it we can discuss our goals and process. As well as where we need to be before we combine. It also takes any strain off of dating and gifts.

Even if you don't talk finances right away, you can discuss your dating budget when you're on the phone planning a second or third date (first was probably nice coffee and a walk). "I'd love to treat you* all the time....but I'm also trying to save up so I can be a gazillionaire and solve world hunger. My budget can run to xxx every few months, or x more often. Either way, I pack a great picnic for other fun dates. What kind of dates do you like?"

That way a date knows up front your budget, and can work with it or can suggest that you do the pricey stuff in her budget too. She also knows you're okay with talking about money and being frugal. And if that doesn't match her interests and lifestyle, you both save time.

*rephrase if you don't genuinely enjoy treating others. Or if you like sharing responsibility. Or if you like being spoiled. It's okay to be any of those ways

ambimammular

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2015, 05:45:25 PM »
I'm hearing many people say that you shouldn't reveal your amazing savings amount, lest you give the partner thoughts of entitlement.

On the reverse: Someone not willing to reveal their financial situation would be a red flag for me. I want to know if they're ignoring a huge medical debt, or if they're swimming in student loans. How can you expect that they reveal their bank book, if you won't share yours?

Turn about is fair play.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2015, 07:16:56 PM »
That also depends on the relationship. If you're not married/cohabiting or seriously planning to be, I'd argue you're independent individuals and it only makes sense to share expenses that are legitimately shared [...]  But if you're just dating and not yet in it for the long haul, it doesn't make sense to think you HAVE to go in on something that your partner wants that's just for them or that you HAVE to help your partner fix their problems. You're not automatically a team yet at that point.
And you won't become a team until you start sharing things. Sharing things is not something you do when you magically become a team, it's something that helps make you a team. It's part of the process. It's not like you're completely independent until the day you get married, then you're inextricably entwined forever. You gradually bring more and more of your lives together.

This is a problem with the word "partner". You're not partners. Partners are in business, and each gives no more than the other. A couple is different. Christopher Reeves was crippled, his wife stayed with him. Was he giving as much as her? Of course not. Was it a good marriage nonetheless? Undoubtedly. It's a marriage, not a business. Each gives not according to what the other gives, but according to what they have to give.

And if you ever want a relationship like that, then you have to start somewhere. Money's the easiest thing to give, and the least valuable thing, far less than your time, your trust, your hopes and dreams and everything else you'll be sharing in an intimate relationship. It's not a partnership, it's a couple, which can in time be the basis of a whole new family.

Merrie

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2015, 07:58:23 PM »
I don't disagree, Kyle. But I don't think it follows from there that lending large amounts of money between people who are dating, who aren't engaged or cohabiting or even thinking of being so, is A-OK because they are partners who should be solving things together. It's going to really vary based on the individuals. That's what I was responding to.

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2015, 09:11:21 PM »
I'm hearing many people say that you shouldn't reveal your amazing savings amount, lest you give the partner thoughts of entitlement.

On the reverse: Someone not willing to reveal their financial situation would be a red flag for me. I want to know if they're ignoring a huge medical debt, or if they're swimming in student loans. How can you expect that they reveal their bank book, if you won't share yours?

Turn about is fair play.

That's an easy one.

"Do you have any debt?"

Through observing behaviour and priorities my husband and I could each see the other was responsible with money (student loans were still common enough at the age we met so we did talk about not having any debts.) Actual numbers were discussed around engagement time and they weren't critical in the sense that whether each had four, five, six, or seven figures of NW, we were each confident the other was able and eager to build family NW through earning, saving, investing, and frugality.

Felipe

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2015, 06:31:34 PM »
My ex tried contacting me a few times through texts and calls, but I'm refreshingly clear that I do not want to move any further with her due to our conflicting values in multiple realms. So I've ignored her calls and begun moving on. The red flags are clearer than ever and there's no way I'm painting them green. Thank you to everyone whose contributed as it's made letting her go feel so much smoother, it feels healing.

I began this relationship well before finding MMM, but just as I had begun taking on frugality. I really liked her so I oversaw some clear red flags early on related to trust, which is non-negotiable as a requirement in a long-term relationship for me.

Reading through all the different posts, it's nice seeing the dichotomy of the perspectives here. Looking at the principles/values they live by and aspire to seems to be something I need to gauge more clearly. I can also be clearer here upfront and lead in the direction of frugality, creative dates like rock climbing picnics, beach picnics, bonfires, surfing, etc. Clearly sharing principles early, seeing where she's at, gauge her habits and values.

I definitely want someone financially responsible, who facilitates that in me. I'm overly clear I don't believe in debt so no outside of legit needs. I don't want to loan anything over a few hundred and only in a dire situation to someone I'm sure I trust and is worth that risk to me.

Some people seem to keep expenses separate, others merge, I don't currently see myself getting married, so separate is the way to go for me.

To my questions:
1)How do I deal with revealing/hiding my wealth to lovers and friends when they are in debt or haven't begun saving?

Some good answers here, for sure begin by leading with frugal dates and seeing whether our principles align. Seeing how they approach life.

Keeping my numbers close until I'm at least pretty sure we have a long-term future together based on compatibility and how much we enjoy exploring life together. Share my budget for dates. If I genuinely think we'll be life partners/lovers, I can share my numbers (thinking a few months in) to gauge whether she respects my desire to stash (& hopefully already stashing alongside me) or whether I should let her go.
Ideally it'd be a 1-1 split but I can take a bit more on if they're not earning as much.

2)How do I screen for people who'd otherwise be chill becoming golddiggers when they find out about my beginning wealth?
I can simply say no and keep numbers discrete, I feel more at peace not sharing numbers with family, friends after reading everyone's posts and some of the stories posted.

I'm studying for midterms so I'm responding slowly, excuse me.


RangerOne

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2015, 06:48:10 PM »
There is really very little need to discuss your finances with someone you are not planning to marry or become deeply involved with. Most people won't pry unless you offer up information first or act like you hiding it.

Of course this could happen once you reach the sharing stage too.

Not every girl you date will do this kind of thing to you though. Stay strong don't let her guilt you into coughing up money for something like this if you don't trust her and have even the slightest feeling she might be using you. Its not worth the risk.

h2ogal

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2015, 07:46:37 PM »
We've made it a rule to never 'loan' money to people we have a personal relationship with - instead we give a gift or give a job so the person can earn it (depending on the situation).   

If a family member or very close friend needs emergency help we give them what we can and never expect it back.   

When DSon asked us to loan him a down payment for a house, we said, "....we can't loan you $ or co-sign for you, but we will give you $XXXX ....you have to come up with the rest on your own."   And guess what, he did!

If an employee in our small business needs a loan, we try to find a way to give them extra work instead of a loan.  Or give them food or loan them the use of a car etc.

This has worked out pretty well.  People often wind up resenting those they owe money to. 

If someone is always short, and looking for a loan it usually means they are struggling with some kind of addiction. 

CheapskateWife

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2015, 07:48:06 AM »
2)How do I screen for people who'd otherwise be chill becoming golddiggers when they find out about my beginning wealth?

I think you already know the answer to this one...say no and be willing to cut out.  That last part is tough, because severing connections is painful.  So I would say if this is a big worry for you, you start off the relationship with the frugal dates, see how that is recieved, and slowly break a potential partner into the idea of FIRE...if they respond well, then you can reveal just how far along this path you actually are. 

One of the coolest parts of this last year of discovering mustchianism is realizing how much more my DH and I can do together with our strengths and finances combined.  If he ever left me, I know I can survive and my NW will get a drastic shave, but I would still be fine.  But together, man oh man, the growth is logarithmic.  So find a partner who gets jazzed about that idea and then start talking numbers.

   

RunHappy

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2015, 11:49:37 AM »
I really liked her so I oversaw some clear red flags early on related to trust, which is non-negotiable as a requirement in a long-term relationship for me.

You need to learn to listen to your gut.  It sounds like you ignored some obvious warning signs.  Next time listen to your gut, if something doesn't feel right then it most likely isn't.

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1)How do I deal with revealing/hiding my wealth to lovers and friends when they are in debt or haven't begun saving?


When the trust is a 2 way street with no accusations.  I only talk about my actual numbers with 2 people, my SO and a good friend who has more saved/invested than me and whom I have asked for financial advice many times.

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2)How do I screen for people who'd otherwise be chill becoming golddiggers when they find out about my beginning wealth?

Don't talk about your beginning wealth.  Gauge them by personality just like you want to be judged.  Really getting to know a person.  Learn the difference between a cheap date and a frugal date. There are a lot of fun things to do together that do not cost a lot (or any) money.  Always treat her with respect. If she starts to complain about you not taking care of her like she is used to, then you might need to let her go.

boarder42

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2015, 12:54:41 PM »
you're in college right... all dates should be cheap/frugal at least mine were. movie nights/ going hiking/ maybe eat out once a month or so ... but we did go out to bars etc. i wasnt very mustacian.  had i been there is lots that can be done cheap in college and you wouldnt come across as cheap.  transitioning that to the working world can be tougher for some.

Reynold

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2015, 04:13:52 PM »
I think I made an investment to find out that a man with a full time job and no other debt couldn't come up with $500 over 9 months, or basically, that he couldn't inconvenience himself a little in order to keep a promise he made to the woman he asked to marry him.  $500 well spent, I just wish I'd figured it out sooner.

I agree that $500 is not much to risk to discover that a prospective life partner, well, isn't. 

I did something like this after a recent move to a new state, a 19 year old guy living with his mom next door who we had introduced ourselves to a couple days earlier when we moved in knocked on our door to borrow $5.  A bit bold of him, yes. . .   He needed gas to meet his band for practice.  I loaned him $10, because it was worth that risk to me to discover if he could be trusted for bigger things (watching our place when we traveled, pick us up at the airport if we needed it, etc.).  As I expected, no $10 materialized for a long time.  I reminded him once at about the 8 month mark (I've got a terrible memory, wanted to make sure he hadn't forgotten), then didn't bring it up again.  Interestingly, he did pay me back out of the blue at about the 18 month mark.  Not soon enough for me to trust him with anything serious, but at least I think his intentions are good, just not his followthrough. :) 

And I've known multiple people, including good friends who are very generous people, who are just baffled by the idea of not spending what they have.  Exactly what they have, regardless of any windfall.  Much better to see if you are on the same page as a potential long term partner before revealing savings, as I've also seen a few people, none of them friends, who very much had that attitude of "50k is RICH, I've never heard of anyone having that much money, I've got a LOT of stuff I want that you could pay for!"

Grid

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2015, 04:54:00 PM »
2)How do I screen for people who'd otherwise be chill becoming golddiggers when they find out about my beginning wealth?

I think you already know the answer to this one...say no and be willing to cut out.  That last part is tough, because severing connections is painful.  So I would say if this is a big worry for you, you start off the relationship with the frugal dates, see how that is recieved, and slowly break a potential partner into the idea of FIRE...if they respond well, then you can reveal just how far along this path you actually are. 

One of the coolest parts of this last year of discovering mustchianism is realizing how much more my DH and I can do together with our strengths and finances combined.  If he ever left me, I know I can survive and my NW will get a drastic shave, but I would still be fine.  But together, man oh man, the growth is logarithmic.  So find a partner who gets jazzed about that idea and then start talking numbers.

   

exponential*  I would steer clear of combining finances if growth became logarithmic as a result.  :)

FatCat

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2015, 06:05:51 PM »
In my experience a lot of people feel entitled to free loans if they find out you aren't hurting for money. I don't see this as specifically being a girlfriend/boyfriend problem.

They seem to see even "access to funds" as the same thing as having money. In other words, if you haven't maxed out your credit card, then you are rich and should loan them money. "Buy this for me with your credit card and I'll pay you back later." Hell no.

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1)How do I deal with revealing/hiding my wealth to lovers and friends when they are in debt or haven't begun saving?

I don't see a reason to bring it up unless you are intending to marry someone.

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2)How do I screen for people who'd otherwise be chill becoming golddiggers when they find out about my beginning wealth?

Go on low cost dates where the point is to have fun instead of spend money. Go dutch if you go on some pricey date.

Try asking them some hypothetical question like "What would you do if you had $50k?" and see how they respond.

I asked a date that very question one time and they answered, "Have one hell of a party! I can't keep money very long!"

CheapskateWife

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2015, 11:40:46 AM »
2)How do I screen for people who'd otherwise be chill becoming golddiggers when they find out about my beginning wealth?

I think you already know the answer to this one...say no and be willing to cut out.  That last part is tough, because severing connections is painful.  So I would say if this is a big worry for you, you start off the relationship with the frugal dates, see how that is recieved, and slowly break a potential partner into the idea of FIRE...if they respond well, then you can reveal just how far along this path you actually are. 

One of the coolest parts of this last year of discovering mustchianism is realizing how much more my DH and I can do together with our strengths and finances combined.  If he ever left me, I know I can survive and my NW will get a drastic shave, but I would still be fine.  But together, man oh man, the growth is logarithmic.  So find a partner who gets jazzed about that idea and then start talking numbers.

   

exponential*  I would steer clear of combining finances if growth became logarithmic as a result.  :)

Good catch...similar concept, incorrect trajectory :)

stlbrah

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2015, 02:38:15 PM »
If you were 5 or 10 years older I would lend the money.

But taking a 22 year old girl (or guy) that seriously is absolutely insane. Unless you live in some very remote rural area. Wait until she starts asking for money for "girls weekend!" in Vegas or Miami. Its a common thing.

stlbrah

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2015, 02:40:53 PM »
I asked a date that very question one time and they answered, "Have one hell of a party! I can't keep money very long!"


LMAO!!!!

Chuck

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2015, 02:57:40 PM »
I think you were wise to share an important aspect of yourself so early in the relationship. It allowed you to see just how incompatible the two of you were. If you had waited until engagement, as several here have suggested, you would now be trapped in a much more crushing choice. It is so much easier to let go early on.

Besides, if she is so desperate for luxury that she is (implicitly, per your exboss comment) willing to whore for it, you dodged a bullet.

libertarian4321

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2015, 06:06:54 PM »
Don't tell future lovers your net worth, but rather, tell them the details of your monthly budget.  If they are on board the frugal train with you and are pumped up about it, you probably are in safe water.  If you get the ol' "you only live once," or "why not enjoy your money while you can?" response, head for the hills.

This is kind of the way I looked at it.  I NEVER told my girlfriend's that I had a fairly substantial net worth.  They knew I made a decent income, and that I was not exactly a big spender, but I never told them I had substantial investments.

I did not want some girl hanging around just because I had money.

I once dated a teacher, who made a decent income, but simply couldn't manage to save a thing (actually, she had debts).  For a couple of years, I tried to guide her, and she just didn't change.  So when she started dropping marriage hints, I got the Hell out of that relationship.

Within a couple of months, I started dating the woman I've been with for the past 20+ years.  She didn't know anything about investing, but she was pretty frugal, had no debts, and fairly decent savings.

I never told her about my net worth (which, at that time, was probably less than $250k), but she eventually found a brokerage statement laying on my desk.  She didn't act weird, she just asked if I could show her how to invest too, since all her money was sitting in savings accounts.  I knew she was a keeper at that point. :)

That teacher is probably still broke.

Felipe

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2015, 11:30:28 AM »
Agreed with almost every point on here. Love the stories, I keep rereading to get more peace on letting her go. Ignoring her calls/texts was hard at first but easier now.

She threw me a curve ball last night but I have not and will not respond. 2 weeks ago she told me she has too many exams the last weekend in April for me to come down. She lives in San Diego (I'm in San Jose) and texted me last night asking if she could drop by. I think she's staying at her ex-boss's and he flew her up here. Now I'm just hoping she doesn't drop by uninvited.

As I look more and more, I see her lacking character. I should've let her go a long time ago but I made every rationalization as I liked her a lot.

Again I really appreciate everyone here helping me see her more clearly. And also seeing the massive variety of people I can meet out there and which lend themselves towards financial independence.

mtn

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2015, 11:59:45 AM »
The finances. Always one of the hardest subjects to breach. For me, even harder since she was and is afraid of money. You dodged a bullet here. Even though my situation was handled well, a lot of people, especially people who don't underst money, have no reasonable thoughts of what is and isn't "fair". Yeah, my family has more money than yours. But we also didn't buy a vacation home twenty years ago, the luxury cars we had were at least 10 years old, we didn't go to Disney land, we didn't go out to eat hardly at all... It all adds up. Don't expect me to feel bad for you. we made different choices, and the chickens are now coming home to roost so to speak.

It is one of the biggest problems people have--entitlement. glasses and contacts aren't that much of a sacrifice in life. 

MarciaB

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2015, 04:54:46 PM »


But as a woman, I can guarantee that there's a also a good supply of men whose eyes light up when they find a woman with money, and who'd be happy to use up that money.

There are lots of people of both genders whose eyes light up at the thought of someone else's wealth.

Single women in their 60s and 70s (and older) who are looking for love refer to this type of situation as an older man who is looking for "a nurse with a purse."

NICE!

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Re: Break Up with Girlfriend Over Refusing to Loan Her Money
« Reply #74 on: April 27, 2015, 03:24:11 AM »
In my experience a lot of people feel entitled to free loans if they find out you aren't hurting for money.

This scares me. Why haven't my in-laws come asking for money yet? Has anyone else observed this?